Paul Walter Hauser

episode of Off the Beat. I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner. As you just heard, Paul Walter Houser is on the program today. I am so excited about this. I'm a huge, huge fan of his work. Never had met him before, but I think you're going to enjoy this deep dive into his career. Now, to give you an idea of Paul's range, let me just list some of the characters

he's taken on during his career so far. Bodyguard Sean Eckert in I Tanya, a white supremacist in Black Klansman, the unexpected and wrongfully accused hero in Richard Jewel, the eccentric Stingray in Cobra Kai, one of Cruela's henchman in Cruella and the incredibly creepy serial killer in a show. I recently became a very, very big fan of Blackbird. I admire Paul so much. He has this ability to take on the physicality and the voices of the characters

he portrays. It's stunning and you never know what he's gonna pull out of the bag next. So I was excited to dive into his journey as an actor, as a writer, and as an overall stand up guy. I'm not gonna make you wait any longer. Are you excited? I sure as hell am. Paul Walter Houser. Everybody, Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker, cooking it every month, left over from the Nabole. What's up, Paul? Bryan? How are you, dude? I'm all right.

How are you? I'm good, really good to see you. I I my buddy Ryan Zachary, who I haven't seen in a bit. Yeah. Yeah. He told me he was doing your podcast and said you should come on. I was like, are you kidding me? In two seconds, let's do it. I appreciate it so much. I'm a huge fan of yours and your work, particularly Blackbird, that comedy

I did Blackbird. Yeah, yeah, you're you're a You're a real stand up comedian that somehow has totally changed the course of your career, which I definitely want to talk about. You grew up in a place I'm going this week, Grand Rapids. I'm going this week. I think technically I will end up in Big Rapids. Farrish State University, Farris State University. I know it. Well. I almost went there, you did, I almost went there. Yeah, I heard you only went to college for like ten minutes though. Yeah,

I was not long for the university life. I never liked school. I just liked extracurriculars and socializing. So I went to a little parochial Christian college in River Forest, Oak Park, Illinois, like near Chicago, and that that was fun for two and a half semess years, and then I dropped out and tried to do the Hollywood thing. Yeah, you grew up in Michigan. When did you realize that performing was something you want to do? I know you

started stand up very early, but when when? When? When when did you first realize you may want to go in that direction? I think I always liked performing, and I had kind of a fearless social thing where I I would get up in front of company at my house and do impersonations of family members or recite Saturday Night live sketches. Remember being like eight or nine years old, ten years old doing impersonations of Jack Nicholson and Jimmy

Stewart in the mirror. And that was the beginning. And then I did a bunch of theater and I think I did ten plays in my four years of high school. It was almost like being a two sport athlete, but for artistic endeavors, you know. And then UH started doing stand up comedy and writing screenplays at sixteen and its bought a bunch of books on screenwriting from Barnes and no Bole and devoured it. I wrote two features before I graduated high school. I was doing local shows at

colleges and bars and churches in my hometown area. And then it wasn't until I auditioned to be a background actor, like an extra in this indie film with Jennifer Connelly and Ed Harris called Virginia. And I went to be an extra, but I saw the filmmaker, the writer director there, this guy Dustin Lance Black, who won the Oscar for writing the movie Milk, and I just said to him. I was like, hey, man, you know, I loved your film.

It was really touching and moving, and loved your Oscar speech when he said God doesn't hate the gay youth of the world. Like I. I'm a professed Christian and kind of conservative, but I'll tell you, I I think more people need to say that and live that, and and thank you for speaking up and saying that. So

it was like a minute conversation wasn't long. But whatever I said or did, he brought me back for an audition, and I booked number six on the call sheet, and I'm doing scenes with Ed Harris and his wife Amy Madigan and Jennifer Connelly. It was it was a crazy first job to get and I got to move to Hollywood with dollars and this really cool, you know thing on my resume. That's awesome. I mean, you you said you were writing. I hear you have dozens of scripts

that are written. Were you more focused early on on the performing aspect of it or I mean it sounds like you were interested in everything, was it performing or writing. I loved all of it. Man, I really I was fascinated by casting. I was fascinated by production design. I loved directing short films and high school and college. I even do it now. So I was just trying to break into the business. I thought maybe if I do all these things, one of them will hit. It's kind

of like playing Roulette, right. I was just like stand up comedy, screenwriting, acting, acting in drama and comedy. You know, at some point I would have just had a bake sale outside of Warner Brothers. And because I was pretty undeterred and pretty obsessed with trying to break in. You know, yeah, that experience that you had in Virginia. Do you think that that shaped you as at least a person in the business later on? I mean it shaped me in the sense that I knew that there were good people

in Hollywood. That was the vibe I got, because you know, when you grow up in a ultra conservative setting and you're highly religious, it's it's easy to fall into this thing of believing that Hollywood is, uh, is this really an awful place with all these awful people? And it's like, I think it's a place full of a bunch of real regular people. But it just so happens that egos and greed and things play in a little bit more aggressively in our business. Then say, people that work for

Turbo tax, you know, it's it just happens. Be an environment that plays on the the generational, you know, cyclical sins we as humans all incur and then sometimes rewards them or doesn't slap risks for some of them, and and that's its own thing. But yeah, no, I I would say that I learned that you can work with wonderful people in Hollywood. I learned to not be afraid to improvise. My whole thing was I'm not gonna ask permission,

I'm gonna ask forgiveness. At that time especially, I was obsessed with the Christopher Guests mockumentaries like Waiting for Goffman, and my whole thing was, I'm gonna be one of those actors. I'm not gonna try to be Robert de Niro. I'll never be DeNiro. I can't be DeNiro, but you bet your ass. I can be ed Begley Jr. You bet your ass. I can be Fred Willard. And I went into it like that, and I was rewarded for it.

Lance Black, who had an Oscar for writing is telling me he loves my improv So like that gave me a lot of confidence and let me know my my true north as a performer will always be to go with my gut instincts. I mean, you talked early on about standing up and doing impressions of family members or big movie stars of the day, Jack, etcetera. Do you feel like that influenced you in terms of creating characters, making vocal and physical choices. Is that something that was

always interesting to you? Yeah, I I was. I was sitting a brunch today with our buddies. My wife and I were sitting with Ray and deb Ji Ratana. They're they're like a power couple of of they do everything from visual effects to directing to their daughters and actress like wonderful people. And we're talking and they said, how did you pick up on all these weird characteristics and choices to make for playing Larry Hall and Blackbird? You know?

The answer I gave him was just I love watching people. If I'm in an airport and I have already five minutes to wait around for my flight, I'm not really begrudging or bemoaning it. It's an opportunity for me to pause and watch total strangers. This guy pulls out his sandwich from Arby's and he starts eating. Oh I noticed he's eating with the rapper half on the sandwich because he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. But then he gets arb sauce on his fingers, licks his fingers

and wipes him on his pants. So clearly being sanitary doesn't matter to him, you know. It's it's about finding all the little things and all the little people and making up stories in your head of that old improv rule. If this is true, what else is true? And and those characterists that speak the greater things, both about humanity or the person in particular. So I, once again, that's me, that's me kind of ranting, but also saying that being

analytical about the pieces that make up people. You know, it's just being a journalist. If you could be a journalist of humanity and then try to emulate those things, you're a great actor. It doesn't mean you're Daniel day Lewis or Violet Davis. It means that you pay attention, and any of us have that ability. It's not like

it's a messing. It's it's a human thing. Yeah, that's what I feel like a huge part of my job is understanding and observing human behavior, and that being able to unlock that behavior can very often unlock the physicality, the voice, that everything of a character. There's something really communal about the experience of watching film and TV. You know, people sometimes want to compliment me and say, wow, you, how did you do that character? And I'm like, I

was doing you your How I did that character? You know, it's it's not as crazy or complex as people would think. If you can have the fearlessness and specificity to to dive into those things that you've experienced that role Tom

Cruise played and topic Thunder. People are obsessed with that, you know, the man Tom Cruise, and it's like he's really he's doing what Dwayne Johnson did in the w w E, where he's taking some piece of him and then amplifying it to a psychotic degree that makes it entertaining. Tom Cruise, like many humans, has any ego. What if you took that anger and ego and amplified it to a billion you have less grossman. You know, doesn't mean

times a bad guy. It means that we all have some ugly and some sin and some truth and reality to us. And if we choose to go ninety on a detour, that's what less Grossman looks like. You're going ninety miles an hour on a curvy detour exit. You know. Yeah. You bring up something else too that I think is is especially true. I've talked to a bunch of people about specificity and that unlocking the key to a character,

unlocking a believability. People think it's about being universal, right, you create a universal character that more people will can relate to, But ultimately it's about finding those specific things. The guy who wraps the sandwich but then wipes it licks and wipes on his pants. Those two things don't go together, but they do because you saw it and it exists within him. Right, Oh, you just said everything, dude.

It's it's that idea of I wrapped the sandwich as to not get my hands dirty, and then I get my hands dirty and I unconsciously I'm wiping them on my clothing, which is the very thing I uh seemed to protest or promulgate, you know. And that contradiction is is man, is that everywhere I did the show Kingdom with Frank Grillo about m M A Fighters and I

was just a recurring guest star. But man, there was a day where I had seen with Matt Laurea in season one, and while I'm doing it, I thought, wouldn't it be funny if when I get at it Matt Laura's character, if I say this is fucking BS, so I'm abbreviating the word bullshit by saying BS, but then I'm saying this is fucking bs. Um. I just thought it was super funny, and I did it, and it cracks me up to this day thinking about it, because

it's like the sandwich thing. I'm going to have the wrap around, but I'm gonna wipe my hands and my pants. And you know that that that's just sort of a hallmark of behavior. Is contradiction, being hypocritical, you know. And I think most things if you juxtapose and you bring comedy to drama, or you bring drama to comedy, or you bring calm and a horror film, or you bring a horror in a calm film, It's like contradiction is

always going to be interesting, isn't it. That's right? Um. You book a few other things after traveling to Hollywood, including a show. You were allegedly a fan of Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Uh, oh man, Yeah, you're a fan

of that show. I love that show. There's a big deal for me to go from like to go from watching It's Always Sunny in my underpants with four of my guy friends in college drinking watered down natural light type of beer cans to a year later getting the part and hanging out with Charlie Day and Glenn and Rob Like, that'surreal, man, that's like some weird, real life

magic stuff. It was a big deal for me. And it's funny you bring that up because I had not seen Glenn Howardson or Charlie Day since I shot the show, like May June, And in the last week I have run into Glenn Howardson and Charlie Day both for the first time in twelve years. And it was such a funny, chummy, cozy little reunion of like, it's so fun to get to be giddy and catch each other up on our lives and to thank them properly for giving me a great gig. That meant a lot to me. And you know,

those residuals matter. Now are times where I was waiting tables and had no money and all of a sudden residual for your episode of Sonny and that helps you pay your rent that month. I mean that I never forget that stuff. Man. Yeah, as you just alluded to you, well, the jobs dry up a little bit and you moved back to Michigan. Is that right? That sucked? And what was the decision there? You just you didn't have money

or or what? Oh dude, man, thank god I persevered because that I couldn't easily given up, like given up giving up. In my first year in Hollywood, I did two independent films, an independent film with Aaron Paul and Jeff Daniels. I did that indie with Jennifer Connelly and Ed Harris. I had a lead role series Regular and a pilot presentation at CBS with Larry Charles and Aunt Hines. Wow. I had the guest star on It's Always Sunny and

I had a co star on Community. So I booked five jobs in fourteen months, and I thought I was Mr Cool. I thought I was the next Jonah Hill. And true to form, you know, God humbled me and I couldn't. I couldn't find a day job out there. I applied to sixty seventy places on Craigslist. I couldn't get a job at Subway McDonald's, but I could get a guest star opposite Danny de Vito on It's Always Sunny. I mean, this is the world I was living in.

I think I had a callbacker two for Bones. I went out for a guest star in some episode of Bones where I would play like a guy at a bowling alley or something that would have saved my ass. I needed that five hundred or five thousand dollar guest star on Bones to stay in l A. I was down to so I was sleeping on the floor of my buddy Matt Ryan's apartment. So things were getting bad.

I remember I went on a date with a female friend of mine and I had two fifty bucks left in my name, I think, and I found out I didn't get Bones, so I took her out on a date to get sushi and go see this movie Source Code with Jake Killenhal And as we're saying goodbye in the arc Light parking lot area, she goes, let's go get protein shakes and go for a walk or hang on next week, and I I said her, I go, I can't she goes, why. I go up, I'm broke.

I have to move home. And she goes, why did you take me out on a date and spend all that money. I go, I guess I wanted to go out of the bank, and I hugged her goodbye. I walked on Hollywood Boulevard. I walked past the Improv Olympic Io Theater, which I was a big fan of, and some guy sees me, this guy, Jeremy. He goes, Paul, what are you doing. I go, hey man, I'm like trying not to cry. I'm in a bad play emotionally.

And he looked at me. He goes, you're going the wrong way, and he means, you're going the wrong way, like in prov Olympic. You're walking away from the theater. Come on in. But you know it's resonating with me, like you're going the wrong way, like you're leaving town. I crossed the street and I run into Tony Hawk and I'm like crying. My face is all blotchy. Tony Hawk is literally just walking side by side next to me.

I look over and see him and I go, hey, man, I don't have anything to say about your skateboarding, but I just saw a source code. It was pretty good. He goes, Yeah, my nephew saw that. He said, that was pretty good. I gotta see that. Like just I'm talking the most surreal, weird moment of my life, crying saying goodbye to a woman I have this like affection for, and I'm saying goodbye to the city. I have a hundred thirty bucks to my name, and I think I flew home the next week, and I worked at a

bowling alley. I worked, by the way, that's funny. I auditioned to play a guy in a bowling alley, and six months later, I'm working at a bowling alley in my hometown. And I worked at a grocery store in a bowling alley. I moved to Detroit to become a mortgage banker for seven weeks for Quicken Loans in one reverse mortgage for Dan Gilbert, the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Yeah, so wait, you were given up, you were done. I

just went home. I didn't have any money and I was sleeping on the floor, right, So it was just it was an untenable situation, right right, right. I just met being a mortgage broker that sounds like you're changing careers. No, that was just to make some money. Just to make some money, I thought, I'll do this for a year. I'll save up twenty grand, thirty grand, I'll move back to Alan, I'll be financially fiscally responsible, because you know, I was also just bad with money, man, due to

regular day for me. I'd wake up at nine ten am, walk down to Solar Dick Colanga or cafe etcetera, Kids in four or Groundworks Coffee. It was like the Klanga strip, and I would just sit around all day eating like club sandwiches and drinking coffee and eating scones while like writing screenplays and running into comedians and people I admired. That was like every day in my life. I'm just dropping fifty six on diner food and chilling, and then at night I'm going to somebody's improv show and I'm

getting drinks after and we're getting in and out. Like I was burning through money just being a slobby, you know, idiot, And uh, it caught up with me and I had to learn a hard lesson for sure. What brought you back to Los Angeles? A friend of a friend said, Hey, I read a pilot. He wrote, I watched your demo reel. I think you're really talented. You want to come crash

on my couch for like a few hundred bucks. So I took this guy up on that, and I moved back to l A. I had done two levels of io theater and stand up in Chicago for six months while working at a Starbucks for like forty hours a week, so I had a little bit of money. I moved to l A January and I'll have been back ten years this January. And I took a bunch of odd jobs. I did everything from story producing for Food Network to stand up comedy to uh waiting tables and working at

five Guys in Ventura Boulevard in Studio City. I mean, I jumped all over the place. And then eventually Kingdom, that show with Frank Grillo, that was my break. Season two. They said, hey, we're gonna bring you back. Instead of paying you a thousand bucks an episod, so we'll give you, you know, or six thousand, and we'll give you like ten or twelve episodes. And I was like, whoa, I

get to quit my day job. Holy crap, and I I haven't had a day job since March of you do seven episodes of Kingdom, and then shortly around that time you book Tanya tell me about the audition. Yeah, I had a fun little streak in the autumn of where man, it's so fun to think about. I'm just grateful to God that I got the opportunity. Yeah. Sorry, Sometimes I just have a moment where I realized how blessed I am, and it's absurd. It's humbling. Man. I was running out of money fall of. I was wondering

if I needed to get another day job. I was waiting on Kingdom to have me back for season four, I think it was, And sure enough, around my birthday October fifteen, I book an under five line on Superstore, UM, a small role in super Troopers too because I had become friendly with Kevin Heffernan. And then I book a pilot, a series regular role in a pilot for Lifetime where I'm playing opposite like legitimate actors like Eric Balfour and

Dominic Kamanahan and um all these wonderful people. So I booked like three jobs in a month, and I was like, wow, you know, thank God, I'm I'm back in it. And I go shoot this pilot in Vancouver, and while I'm there, must have been the last like three days of filming. I was about to leave, like mid November, and I get an email about Titania and they say the script was on the Blacklist. It's a true story. They got Mario, Robbie and Alison Janney and it's the guy who directed

Lars and the Real Girl. I'm like, dude, I'm used to like going out for guests stars on Two Broke Girls, and that's that's a good that's a good month for me. Like, what the hell is this? So I read the script and I'm laughing my ass off, and I'm like, this is like David o' russell and Christopher guests had some psychotic child. You know, this is so funny but heartbreaking and crazy but true. And I look at a picture of the real guy and I go, this is a

very specific looking guy. There are not many men in Hollywood who can act at that level who looked like this slavish dude. Right, So I already know. I'm like, you know, if I if I grow the mustache out a little bit and I and I drill this, maybe I have a shot. So I go into audition, I think just before Thanksgiving, and there's a lot of different guys in in the room. It's like Haley, Joel Osmond and some massive pound dude and then Neil Casey from

Upgrade Citizens Brigade. So it's like it's a real Hodge positive, just different looking white dudes. And I'm like, I don't know that they even know what they want, and I think they're kind of casting a big net. So I go up and and I do the scene that goes well, and I'm having a lot of fun. I'm not improvising. I'm just really trying to honor what's there and make everybody happy. And the next day my reps call me. They go, hey, man, you have a callback on Tuesday.

And I always ask who the callback is with because I figure it's down to me and two or three other guys. That's what a callback is, right, And they see to me, they go, it's just you. I said, that doesn't sound like a callback. That sounds like something else. They go, we think they have an offer out to another actor. I go, oh, it's got to be like Josh Gadd or somebody really reputable who's gonna get it.

That afternoon, they come back to me. They go, Hey, it's Josh Gadden, and I'm like, you's no freaking way I'm getting this. Josh has got frozen and he's worked with Kevin Hart and all these big people and and uh. Come to find out, it was like a scheduling thing. They wanted Josh, but he was also doing Kenneth Brana's murder on the Orient Express movie, I think, and it was in the middle of that whole deal. So I'm

really nervous and I want the part so bad. The night before, mind you, I'll be a year sober from pot and alcohol October twenty six of this year. Don't vilify it, but it wasn't for me. Had to get away from it. So at this time I was smoking a lot of weed, and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna get really high and I'm gonna get really stoned,

and I'm gonna chill out about this thing. But I get really wickedly stoned the night before, and then the next morning I have a residual high where I'm almost high for the second audition, and I come in with a cookie and a coffee in a track suit and I'm literally sitting on the floor because there are no seats in the lobby, and all the people around me taking up the seats are little kids with dark hair who are all cursing to their parents and guardians because

they're auditioning to play young Scarface. So I'm like borderline high and I'm like, this is the weirdest thing in the world, Like I'm just cracking up laughing. Uh. And and I hear somebody upstairs screaming, like an angry guy screaming, and I'm like, who the hell is that? And then he walks down. That's Aaron Paul auditioning for Galulee. And he walks past Billy Magnus and who's got a mustache

to play Galulee. And it, once again it adds to the weirdness because I hadn't seen Aaron in years, and he looks like he's ready to kill somebody. And this other guy's got a mustache and looks exactly like Jeff Galulee. And I'm like, this is such a circus. So I go upstairs and I literally I acted like I didn't even care. I did the part really well, but like I was very much like I think my parting words

were you. Guys, this project is awesome. Whether you choose me or not, You're about to have a lot of fun. I'm excited for you, guys. So if I don't see it, if I don't see you enjoy the film. Man kind of went out with one of those every time I've said that in audition, I get the part. I don't know what it is. There's something to it because it's worked every time. And I got the part. And were you proud of the movie when it when you saw it?

I I kind of loved the movie because it does a lot of things I like in my entertainment that I watch. I cared about the characters. I laughed out loud. I felt like it handled dark comedy really well, kind of like the Cohen Brothers do or David or Russell. And I thought I did a good job. Like I I enjoyed my own performance and thought like, way to go, PAULI you did it, buddy. Yeah. I was just proud to be coming off the bench and showing up with them.

And and it did provide a lot of new opportunities and and new relationships which helped. Yeah, And once again, it didn't change my life, right, away. It really didn't. I I shot the film, and I had some money in my pocket, but it wasn't a lot of money.

It got me through the year, and then you know, Black Klansman was was a nice thing where I came back from Tiff where IONI did really well, and I auditioned for Black Clansmen, and I just I had a lot of confidence because I Tany did so well at Tiff that it kind of propelled my confidence to walk in and do a director session with Spike Lee and just be myself and improvised and do all the things I do. And Spike asked for my cell phone number, and he was like totally on board, Like I totally

get who you are. I totally get what you do. Let's do this. He asked for your cell phone number in the audition? Is that right? Yeah? Which is nuts? I mean, who's That's never happened to me? And so there I am with itania coming out Black Clansmen in post production, but I still you know, I did New New York local higher for Black Plans. I think I made like ten grand and after I tied to my church and I give to my agents and managers and taxes or whatever. I probably only made like six grand

on Black Clansmen. So I borrowed ten grand from my parents retirement fund January just to get by and not have to get a day job again. And then I signed up CIA and things started. The ball started rolling between having great agents and having Spike in Margo in my corner. You know that gets around, and and I did like five jobs and it just spiraled and rolled, and I started working and doing stuff I was really

proud of. Yeah, um, you finished two big movies and then you are cast as the title character in Richard Jewel. Now I have to tell you something I don't know. I'm assuming you don't know this. I was in Centennial Park when the bomb went off. Oh I did not

know that. Yeah, this is before cell phone, so this is ninety s. And I went in the House of Blues alone, had three buddies I was meeting and couldn't find them, and I went outside to a pay phone in Centennial Park, called my parents and said, hey, I'm gonna get on. They call it Martha, the subway stop that went out towards my parents house. But that I was still going to need to be to be picked up from there and I hung up the phone and the bomb went off, and I still remember the sensation.

What I didn't experience was allowed sound like a bomb. My overall experience was like it was devoid of sound, Like it was like it went off, and then it was that right afterward, it was almost like the sound all of the sound got sucked out of everything. And I just immediately went to the subway station to try to get the hell out of there. It was very clear what had happened. And I will never forget this that I got to an escalator to go down to get on the subway and I go through. I'm alone

to granted, with no cell phone. And by the way, what are my parents doing at home? They're watching Olympic coverage, so they see they know where I am, and they see that this bomb has gone off, and there's no way for me to communicate. I just had to get out of there. Yeah, Ce, I go down the escalator and they stopped the people right behind me, and in

conversations with some other police officers at the bottom. The reason they did that is if you're really trying to hurt people, I guess you put a bomb off and then you put off bombs where people are going to go shortly after that, and everything at that point, you know, was fine. I met, but I had very nervous and worried parents who for forty five minutes to an hour or whatever, had no idea where I was or what

actually had happened as they were watching it unfold. So my point being, this movie I was very much looking forward to because I lived it. Yeah, I was there. Um, I'm told that your photo was on the board in the production office and they said that they were looking for someone that looked like this. Is that true? Yeah? Man, it was so weird how that happened. So apparently Jeff mcclad is the casting rector for Eastwood and they were

trying to figure out who could play Richard Jewel. Now, mind you, at the time it was supposed to be Leo and Jonah. They were hot off of Wolf Wall Street and wanted to work together again, and Joan was gonna play Richard, Leo was gonna play the attorney Watson Bryant, and you know, Eastwood was considering like who else could play it, I guess, and Jeff mcclatt and Jessica Meyer, they showed him a photo of me that that they put up as a sample, and Eastwood just looks at

the photo and he pauses. He goes, who is that guy? And then he pauses and he goes, yeah, I think that's the guy. And they're like, what do you what do you mean you think that's the guy. He's like, yeah, I think that's the guy. And they're like, well, we'll bring you some tape on him, so you know what you're getting. And they showed him my demo reel with scenes from Kingdom and Ionia and Black Klansman, and he goes, yeah, he could do it, and like said it nonchalantly, like

he can do it. That's the guy. So I'm in Thailand shooting to five Bloods, this war film for Spike, which would prove to be, you know, one of Chadwick Boseman's last films and one of Spike's greatest. I think I'm kind of going through a rough patch where I'm alone in a country I've never been. I'm trying to be sober and and I'm kind of depressed and not in a good place. And I got offered the TV version of Richard Jewell for a lot of money. More

than I had ever made, that's for sure. And then three days later I get this call saying Cling Eastwood wants to play Richard Jewel in the movie. I told Cia and my manager Brian Walsh, I'm like, guys, am I getting offered the same character and opposing projects seventy two hours like between each other, Like what the hell is going on? Ever ever happened in the history of Hollywood. And it got to the point where the casting director is like, well, now I heard Paul might do Eastwoods movie,

and I'm like, I don't even have an offer. I'm just like getting a horrible confirmation from my reps. So it got down to the wire and they're offering me more money than any one of my family's ever made in a year to do Richard Julu TV show. And then verbally Clint goes, come to my movie. But Clint, the project was at Fox, Disney bought Fox, and Clint only works with Warner Brothers. So there's a whole fiasco behind the scenes about getting the rights to the movie

that has not been ironed out yet. So it comes down to the wire and my reps go, you gotta choose, and I said, man, you can only operate out of fear of love. The Bible talks about perfect love casting fear out. Fear would tell me to take the paycheck for the show. Love would tell me to work with Clint Eastwood. Tell him I'm working with Clint Eastwood. So my reps are ecstatic. And then I had to sit with that decision for three more weeks in Thailand for I get back to the States and hope to God

that the movie's happening. So I turned down like seven eight hundred thousand dollars for a movie that might happen with no offer on the table from Eastwood. Unbelie, I go back to l A. I meet with Clint on the Warner lot. Sure enough, he got the rights, and that journey making that movie was the best job I've ever had. I met my wife via a dating app while I was filming the movie. We now have a

son together. Like that movie changed my life and and I'm forever grateful that Clint took a chance on me, because I think the studio wanted a movie start, and uh, they got me instead. You know, well, I think you're a movie start now, my friend. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna point that out, So I think they ended up getting you and a movie start. Did you spend

any time with Bobby richards mom? I met her on the Warner lot with Watson Bryant, the attorney, and they were so easy going, They were so supportive, both huge fans of Clint, which it helps one the boss is there to shake hands, kissed babies, take selfies. I asked some questions about Richard. I said, what kind of food did he eat? What kind of movies did he watch? Like I wanted all the day to day particulars because all the dramas in the script, I don't have to

ask them. Was Richard afraid when they pinned the bombing on it? Like I don't need to ask about the bombing, I need to ask about who he was as a man. And you know, it seemed like he was a bit of a teacher's pet to his own detriment, where he wanted to people please and love people and serve people, but um also felt undermined and underutilized and kind of hurt by the comments and jokes of other people. And I think it also made him an angry, sort of

unrestful creature. So that's what I last onto and getting their sign off, you know, like I I tell people in interviews, I say, I got on the red carpet and was going to the premiere for Richard Jewel in November, and Bobby Julian Watson Bryant told me watching you was

like having Richard back for two hours. And I was like, That's how arrogant and ego filled and stupid would it be to care about awards season or the tomato meter on Rotten Tomatoes When the people who loved him and knew him best felt they got to experience him again through our story. We told like, nothing's better than that, Like,

are you kidding me? So I was really proud of the film and it made me a better actor, and it I made such great friends from it, where Sam Rockwell and I now will text each other YouTube videos, and you know, to think I got to work with one of my heroes and I got to bring some piece of even minute closure to the Jewel family in that community that that means the world to me. It's got to be like a Hollywood first. I don't know if it's a first, but that you have played now

in your really young career. Three iconic roles where you're playing real, live people, like people that existed before. I was talking to um Kevin Pollock, who was amazing stand up comedian. It was talking about finding the key and that once you find the key to a person, then the impersonation, if you will, becomes very simple. But it's about finding that key. Are you looking for a key? Yeah? I think I think the key is knowing who they are as a person, rather than who they are as

some constructed life event. You know, when you go to play a serial killer, you got to learn who they are because if you're just watching serial killer documentaries or YouTube clips that Charlie Manson, It's like that's like that's like saying I'm gonna learn how to be a chef because I spent a lot of time at restaurants, Like they just doesn't really make sense. Uh So with Larry Hall and Blackbird, it was all about what does he want and what are his defects? With Sean Eckhart and

itonia same thing. Richard Jewel, It's like these guys are broken people who have probably misconstrued the heart of masculinity, which is responsibility, and they think that masculinity is something where you you're in charge, or you're an authority, or your exacting revenge on those who would hurt you, or your ideology. And so I think I've gotten to explore that and make it honest. And you know, if I'm saying, what is the key to those guys, he to Shawan

Eckhard is the spirit of religion. He has bought into this thing so much that if you showed him the truth in plain sight, he wouldn't know it. With Richard Jewell, it's all about duty. You're in a place of service and duty. A lot of that duty was not breaking down and crying all the time. You know. My greatest joy with Richard Jewel was how do I try to hold back the tears until the diner scene and then let it all, let the damn break and let the

flood flow. So yeah, I think religion, duty. And then with Blackbird Larry Hall, the key to him is deception. I've always said that evil's highest honor is deception. You know, It's it's this prank with dire consequences for the victim, and my character had been deceived, and then he chose to deceive. It's just a very sad, dark thing to partake in. And you know, I'm glad there isn't a season two of that show because I couldn't do it.

I couldn't play that guy another Even when people asked me to do the voice to make them laugh and can you do the high pitched voice, It's like, I don't mind doing it for them for a second, but it's like, I'm not looking to even joke about that guy. I don't love joking about him because it it was a real thing that happened. Yeah, I heard that you actually lowered the octave of his voice because his was even higher. Is that true? Oh my goodness. There was

nothing to research Brian. Like Richard Jewel and Sean Eckhart, I had all his video footage. It was like cheating. I literally felt like I was cheating where I could just imitate and and try to live in those things they were doing. But with Larry Hall, there was nothing but a twelve second audio clip and some random news documentary about the killings, and in it his voice was

slower and at times just like psychotically high. I thought to myself, I'm like, well, if I do this for six episodes, At some point the audience is going to have some fatigue. Worst case scenario, it could turn into like an SNL mad TV character, right, So I thought, I'll lower the register, and then Dennis Lehane helped me figure out that we can raise the register and make it higher pitch when the character is lying or trying

to put on this character. I noticed that. That's amazing, and you know, I couldn't have done that without Dennis's help. We discovered that together, and he helped me play clean up and find a way to use the voice to to our advantage. And I really hope it's not distracting. I apologize to people if it is. But you know, mahrshe l Ali in Green Book The Real Guy, he played that doctor and the musician. He apparently his voice was cartoonishly distractingly high and he had to kind of

cut cut it down and dilute it. The best thing to do for any actors listening is try to find a real way to present that voice. And if you end up and elating or imitating something cerebral or spiritual about the person, it will come off as though you're imitating them perfectly, rather than look at me raising my eyebrow the way they raised their eyebrow. You know. It's it's not always about the exactitude of a visual, it's

about the exactitude of the intention. If that makes sense. Yes, if anyone hasn't seen it, Blackbird streaming now, Paul gives just a brilliant performance. I'll call it brilliant. I I was really taken with what we talked about before, the dichotomy within the character, his level of I guess knowing. I don't know. I don't know how to say it, his level of of um. Are you trying to get at the cognizance the character was like self aware coming unaware. Yes, yes,

I think that's it. I think that that dichotomy between yes, what he was aware of of, how he was perceived, how he perceived himself, his deception. I mean, it's really hard to play dumb, right, like they they say, that's that's one of the most difficult things, is to play dumb and not be dumb. You know, to what degree as as you're watching the story unfold, how much he is aware and his is not the puppet but the

puppet master. I don't know. I don't know if I'm saying it in any articulate way, but no, you're you're You're getting at all of it with the contextual clues here, which is this idea of balancing um truth with fabrication, knowing when to be truthful or fabricated based on who you're around or what you're trying to get at, and then also playing the character as someone who is kind of, you know, in sort of a disease state where sometimes

you're not aware how sick you are. That is a weird thing to play to try to balance that and make decisions on what the characters thinking or how they're feeling, you know. And I hope I encapsulated that with whatever the hell I just said. Maybe I made it more. Yeah, I might have been like, so I think I think I was like, let me take you out of this labyrinth and put you in a spider's web. I apologize, Um, I think a lot of it, man is layering thoughts.

And I'll give you exactly what this is if you and I go out to brunch, which I sure as I'll hope we do sometimes. But when you and I, when you and I go out to brunch, we can hold the conversation while I still have these monitors up. You know, Jay Moore talked about how he used to go on stage and the word monitors. I'm looking at her cleavage while clocking the fact that the air conditioning is on way too high and I'm freezing cold. While

on stage someone's laughing with their laughter is distracting. It's too loud. Are they mocking me? Like you and I can have a conversation a brunch and I'm still thinking of seventeen different things, not because I'm not listening to you, because I'm a human. So I think with Larry it was always about layering your thoughts, layering your intentions, and sewing in joy or pain to every moment. Anybody can

do it. But it's also like it's kind of like the drummer who sings with the microphone next to the symbol. You know, you can do it. Anybody could if they practice, but you are having to play two instruments at once. For that type of character, you have to drum and do the kick pedal and use your hands while singing. Not, thank god, not every characters like that, or I'd probably go nuts. But I can do it once a year, once every year and a half where you gotta do

a character like that. I can't believe you just use that example. I've said this before, but I'm going to tell you, Um, the nerdiest writer room joke on the office is what you just said. That they made Kevin Malone the lead singer and drummer of a police cover band because the singing is not on the beat of the drums. So in order to be the lead singer and drummer of a police cover band, you would have

to be a musical savant and a genius. But that's why they that was there, like they thought that was hilarious. That was their inside joke that nobody, of course ever got, but that Kevin Malone was a musical genius. But that's what you're talking about, Yes, having to do having to do that. Um, what do you think that Larry's greatest need was? Well, what a question. I've done so many interviews. I don't think anybody's asked me that. Notice I'm usually

rocket fire and rant you with these answers. This is clearly when I haven't been asked. Uh. I think his greatest need is something we all need, which is um, self love and self forgiveness. If he was really cutting off fingers, to take rings off dead bodies and graveyards as a child, Pretty sure you carry that into adulthood and feel like there's something fundamentally wrong with you and

that you're bad. You pair that with some social awkwardness and maybe even the medical issue of having been a twin and having the other twin get more nutrients or whatever they think might may have happened. That's a cocktail for for disaster, not serial killer disaster. He had to make choices to go down that route. But some people

are putting a disadvantage and he absolutely was. And had he found God or found relationships that were purest and found some acceptance for self and acceptance communally, had he found self love and self forgiveness. Uh, And I in no way think you would have been a serial killer. I just don't think so. And it's been proven. You know, I'm raising a son right now. I have a sixteen and a half month old son named Harris. And you gotta be careful. You raised boys, man, not just kids,

I mean boys. It is so easy to just let them fall into this world of pornography and video game marathons and junk food behavior and and suddenly they think being a man is having freedom and being loud or having secrets or whatever this is. And and I think Larry Hall is just this completely fucked story of a young man who never had a chance. And it's sad. Man, he was a baby. He was a baby like the rest of us. And then X amount of circumstances and lack of guidance or two to ledge your love, you

got a serial killer. So it's a I think you needed love and forgiveness, is my guest, which is something we all need. Yeah, um, Cobra Kai, Yeah, let's bring it up. Let's bring it back up. Cobra kai Is. Season five is out and uh Stingray is alive and well, I hope people watch him. I read that most people stop you about the last couple of weeks. I've run into producers like Brian Grazer and Jerry Bruckheimer. None of them know who the hell I am. And I don't

say that like the grudgingly or negatively. I just like, factually, there's a massive amount of people in Hollywood and our industry who have no idea who I am. But people on the street like freak out and yell stingray from three blocks away, and like if I if I see. I was at Santa Bar with my wife and my son and we saw this this kid wearing a Cobra Kai shirt, and I just walked up to him and surprised him and said, hey, it's sting right, you know,

not because I'll feel good if I'm recognized. It's just this thing of like if I were that kid, and I were a Cobra Kai fan, and a cast member from the show just showed up on my vacation and took a photo of me and high five me like I would, it would be like magic or something, you know. And there's nothing I like more than giving people those moments. And that's that's been the fun of all this is I make a living being creative, and it's it's wonderful.

But it's also I get to give back in effortless ways. It cost me nothing to take two minutes to make a nine year old feel like a million dollars. You know. That's really fun. That's awesome. People ask me, they're like, why do you do you you were the star of a Clue Eastwood movie. Why would you do Cobra Kai. It's like, because it's fun, I need money, and it makes people happy like that. Those are three very good reasons to do something. You know, I might be in

Cobra Ki season twelve. I have no idea, but I do know what pays. I have fun and it makes people happy. That's awesome. Um, your favorite charity, serv l A. Tell me a little bit about that and why it's so important to you, dude. Thanks for bringing that up. Serve l A is a wonderful organization in the heart of Hollywood. What they do is they they serve and feed the homeless community in Hollywood in particular, so they serve two people a day. They do a breakfast in

a dinner. They give out free showers and free clothing to people, and they learned their names and they greet them, and they they have waiters and waitresses in a cafeteria setting like they're at a restaurant, and they're given real silverware like metal forks and spoons and knives and plates, so that there's some dignity. They're not just being given a cellophane wrap sandwich and sent on their way and told they can't use the bathroom because of a COVID law.

That's what attracted me to them, and you know, I'm just trying to raise awareness and hopefully raise some money. My birthday is next month. I turned thirty six and I'm also celebrating one year sobriety. So for my birthday, I'm gonna put on a little fundraiser to raise awareness. And normally people are like, can I buy you a drink or buy a shot for your birthday? It's like

I have something else. I'd love people to give their time or money or effort too, and I hope they'll check it out and go to the website or something. UM Serve l A is is doing grassroots loving on the homeless community and they do it with a lot of dignity. Dude, you're awesome. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy you a drink next month through UM through Serve l A. Thanks man, that's awesome. Yeah, dude, you're awesome.

I'm such a big, big fan of yours and now getting to chat with you, truly you're an even better person. So God bless you, and thank you so much for coming on and talk to me. I appreciate it so much. Thanks for enteritaining me for so many years. Man, God bless you. Thank you dude. Thanks Paul, it was so great talking to you today. Thank you for swinging by and having this conversation with me. I am a huge fan and I will be watching anything and everything that

you come out with. Next to everyone else who came along today's journey. Thank you as always, we couldn't do it without you. Why would we make sure to follow us on at Off the Beat, share some of your ideas of who we should have on the pod, and I will be back next Tuesday with another episode that I think you might like. Yeah, yeah, I think you might like it a lot. And that's all I'm gonna say.

Have a great week. Everybody. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Cats. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton