Michael Rosenbaum

fit and dessert You Band. Hey, I am Michael Rosenbaum. I was Lex lutheran Smallville, and I have a really fun podcast called Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum, so check it out. I'm happy to be here. Hello, they're friends, and welcome back to a brand spanking new episode of Off the Beat. As always, I am your host Brian Baumgartner. Today, well, I'm talking to my new bestie, Michael Rosenbaum, as you

just heard. Now. You may know him best as Lex Luthor on Smallville, or maybe from his hit podcast Inside of You, as he so eloquently writes in his podcast bio you may see him and say, oh, that guy from that thing. But you know, all seriousness. Michael has been in everything. He's an incredible actor, Urban Legends, Justice League, Guardians of the Galaxy, and uh he's even the lead singer of his band son Spin. I find him so interesting. He also has some unique interests. He's a voice actor.

He's a collector. Actually, why don't you just guess? He collects? Is it slinkys, is it anything chicken related? Is it horror memorabilia, troll dolls, back scratchers. Yeah, one of those things he collects and it fills him with joy. The answer will be available in the podcast. I also want to mention that not only is Michael on my podcast today, but as you just heard, I'm on his So make sure to check that out inside of you. Look, I'm excited to bring him on. He's a new friend, but

he's a dear friend that didn't rhyme. Let's just do this here. He is Michael Rosenbaum. Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month left over from the nut before. What's up? How are you doing? What's up? My new bestie. Oh, you dropped a bomb Gardner on me. Baby, you dropped a bomb on me. Dude, Michael, I mean two times so close together. This is I mean wow. Now next, I promised you when we parted ways that I was

going to make you some chili. That's going to happen. Let me be very clear today I'm moving. So my kitchen, my implements. What is that? That's not my utensils. They're all packed up. So the implements. If you want implements, you know my my implements. Will we'll play golf and will eat chili. How does that? I'm very excited about that. That sounds amazing. I can't eight to uh be invited to your house? Do you usually do this over zoom? You don't have people at your house. You don't like

people at your house? Well, you know, I live in Oklahoma. Now that's a hike for me. It's a little. It's a little. Although I came to you, I came to your house. You did, and it was a bit You're right. I remember you saying it was a bit of a hike, But you had some other stuff going on that day. It wasn't just that. It was no it was just for you. It was just for you. That's my story. I'm sticking with it, you see. So it's was so

nice getting to talk to you. Now. I'm i'm I'm turning the tables a little bit on you because I i've one. I find you incredibly interesting, in addition to being incredibly sexy. People like Welling. I don't know why. I don't know why people I don't know why people like Welling. I've go you've golfed with Welling? I have you golfed with Welling? I have a golf with Welling. I know you like to golf. I can't believe you guys having golf together. Yeah. Well, I just started picking

it up during COVID. There's nothing else to do. So everybody started buying clubs. Everybody started to go to the golf course. And I played ice hockey my whole life. But I remember what you said on my podcast. You said, that's the time where there's no phones, there's no external noise. You just, for however many hours focus on that, and that for you is therapeutic. So I can understand that. I understand that. So when I golf, I try to do that as well. I try to just talk with

my friends, enjoy the atmosphere, and it's help. It's it is therapeutic. It's like meditation in a way. Yeah, I don't think I knew that you did ice cock hockey. You know, that's Correl's game sport. That's really that's what he did growing up. Yeah. In fact, he got hurt at some point while we were filming playing high He played in a like a league in Los angele of us. They're like Lee, But yeah, I do. In fact, I just ran into someone who played or plays with him.

I thought he had given it up. Maybe not, but yeah, and so he and I have golfed, not a lot, but you know, he's got a good swing. He makes good contact because yeah, you ice hockey, guys can pound the ball um, but he's learning to. And like you said, it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of time back back to welling, back to Welling being so good looking, because you did you did say that, and uh, you know you were. I know I will look.

I appreciate that. But you know what's funny is I always felt when I was on Smallville that I was gonna get fired because I wasn't good looking enough. I didn't match the crips here. I didn't fit the criteria for the w B slash g W whatever model. And you had Tom was so beautiful and Kristen, who played a lot, was so beautiful, and the beautiful pair. Everyone was beautiful. And I'm like, this bald guy got this bump on my back of my head. I was never

popular in high school. I just was really feeling like, um, they're gonna let me go. So I felt like I had to step up my game and act the ship out of those scenes in order to stay on board. So I always felt like I was threatened by willing. Yeah, I have similar feelings about the w B c W. I always felt like any time I would get like an appointment to go meet with something, I was like, they're not gonna hire me. But now now they hired you. So I don't know where the Yeah, yeah, they're in

the bald guys. Now. You know you have a little bit of baldness going, so you they're probably into you now, yeah, a little bit. Um. All right, Well, I want to talk more about Smallville, but I want to go back first. I understand you were born in New York. But who ended up being raised in Indiana? Was that a family

moved to Indiana? Yeah, Dad got a job transfer he worked in uh sort of a chemist like and uh he brought the whole family to a small town in Newburg, Indiana, which had about three thousand, not even three thousand people, a lot of corn fields, of burger farm, a Druther's, a dairy queen, a tiny Newberg cinema, a pizza king. Can't forget that, and the high school was about a few miles away. And uh, yeah, we just landed in Newburg, Indiana, And thus began my life growing up in the Middlewest. Wow,

And was that difficult for you? I remember my dad was mowing the lawn. You know, it's just blew shit all over him, you know, all over his face and his body, you know, when he's mowing the lawn, East wear goggles. And I remember saying, I don't have any friends. He's like, what, I don't have any friends? And he's like, well, why don't you go and knock on everybody's door in the neighborhood and asked them if they have a kid who's eight years old or nine years old you could

play with and I did, and I went next door. No, and finally I got about eight houses down and uh, this woman answers Mrs Cutter, and Mrs Cutter. I looks at me and go, I go, hey, do you have like a nine year old kid that I could play with? She goes, you don't look you look too small for nine, and I go, well, I am, and then she goes Danny. And then Danny became my best friend. And we catch fireflies and we tp houses and we play a whiffle ball.

And I remember when I think back, I said, you know, they always say if you're always in in the past, you're depressed. It's part of it's depression if you're stuck in the past. But I remember I had a dysfunctional family, volatility out the ass. But I remember great friends and great memories growing up in a small town, or something really special about my time in Indiana, and I don't forget. And I usually go back once a year. You know, I always say I'm gonna move back there, and my

friends always here say, what are you gonna do? You'll get bored there, why would you want to go back? But I do miss the Middlewest. I do. It's just there's something calm about it when you land. There's something just oh man, this is just some them in Indiana, you know. Yeah, so it's nice. Now that's great. You know, I've said this before. It seems like all the funny people that I know are from like Kansas. I don't know,

there's like this whole group of people. And you think about, you know, the potential that you know, there's not enough creative outlets. There's just not as many um, you know places. But but that environment growing up and truly just using your imagination, needing to entertain yourself, you know, with your friends. And I don't know, that's that's awesome to hear. I hope you I hope you could do go back. It's a tough commute to Indiana, it is, but you know, uh,

I do think I'll go back one day. I mean. The only problem is my mom lives there, so I don't know. I want. I'm happy her coming to town. I'm I flew her. I'm fly her in Thursday for her seventy fifth birthday. And uh, she's a handful. She's a handful, so i'd have to live. My sister lives there still, so I'm thinking about it. We'll see what happens. All right. Your mom is a writer, is that right? Or is a writer? Yeah? She like writes for small

town paper, Evansville Courier, the Newberg Register. She doesn't do it much anymore, but you know, she's pretty liberal. Not to say I'm not liberal at all, but she's really liberal. And so she used to write these articles in the papers. And it used to piss people off. And I used to get harassed in school for the articles that my mom would write. And it was just like I used to im, like, go, why are you putting my name

in these interviews? And and we had to put up with that, and she was just she would just she's sometimes write about baseball players. She'd somehow get these interviews. She was her own publicist, so she would call like major league outlets and like get interviews with the St. Louis Cardinals players. And family would all drive to St. Louis and go watch a game and she'd be interviewing some baseball player for this little paper, and somehow she

charmed her way in. She's a very charming, manipulative person. Let me just say that it's it's clear. I mean, it's been there's been three references in four minutes about your mixed feelings about your mom. But I hope you have a nice Yeah, I hope so too. Look, I love her. She was just you know, she had my my my brother when she was sixteen. She had my sister when she was seventeen, and she got divorced. She married my dad, who was eighteen. Uh, you know, they

grew up really fast. And well, I think that, you know, when you have a child, the child must come first. They have to be the center of attention and if not, they're gonna be well, uh, tortured. And so I think that I became a little tortured as the years grew on, but I somehow made it through the fog. And here I am. Yeah, well that's good. Uh. You went to Western Kentucky, right, and you you studied theater arts. So when did you start finding a love of theater or

of acting? Was that was that early or was that just what you decided to go to college for. Well, I went to college thinking, you know, I'll take some acting classes because I I took one in high school and I did a play. But I was really insecure and got a lot of confidence and Uh. I remember the teacher, Mr Dr Combs, and uh, I was taking

basic techniques of acting. And I went in there and I had this baseball cap and this Mets jersey and the teacher says, those of you who are here for an easy elective, please raise your hand ends And so about seven people in the class raised their hands and kind of laughed, and I was so close to raising my hand as a joke. And he then looks at these kids and says, get out of my class. And I was like what. And he made these kids leave

his class and find another elective. And then he asked me at the end of class, Mr Rosenbaum, do you really want to be an actor? And I go yeah. And it took some time, but as I started to do plays the children's theater and then bigger plays, and hearing that that instant gratification, that the applause from the audience, and like I felt accepted for the first time in my life. It was validation that I was doing something

good for the first time. And I fell in love with that feeling, that euphoria, that connection, and I just I started getting lead roles and I remember it was like the end of my junior year. I looked in the mirror and I go, you're an actor, dude, You're a fucking actor. You say f on the show, Yeah you can, oh And I said, you're an f an actor. I didn't that done? And then uh, that was it. I just kind of I love being a part of something, part of this ensemble and pretending I'm someone I'm not,

and uh, that was a lot cooler than being me. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about that on your podcast and that experience and you ultimately uh changed your professor's opinion by the end, right by the end, Dr Combs. I remember going to his office and I said, I'm thinking about going to grad school for you know, for acting, and he goes, I think you're ready. I think you should go to New York and I just said wow. And I went to New York and I had nothing on my back.

I had an apartment with three people in a one bedroom with bunk beds, trying to pay rent. Telemarketing and every think sort of kind of came into place. Uh. I was having no luck. I did like Dracula at the Gross Street Playhouse and some off off Way, the hell off Broadway, like New Jersey Broadway and things were really working out. And I called Dr Combs and he said, let me make a phone call and he called this

actress Becky Baker and Dylan Baker. They're they're working actors and and I went over for dinner and we had a great time, and I went back home and I waited three days and I didn't know what to do. So go, I'm gonna call Becky and thank her for dinner. And I called and she's like, Michael, hey, can you hold on one second. I said sure. She clicks back and she says, hey, can you meet with my agency tomorrow. I just was talking to them on the other line

when you called. And I went to them, and I remember the agent was like, do you have a resume? And I gave it to him, like do you do any voice over work? And I go, yeah, of course I didn't, And I just went into it. I go, if you like yummy things like peach part fait, come on live a little, have a cup of you band for dessert. You band, the gorgeous coffee. You band taste great. Just think baking an eggs for breakfast and dessert, a nice big sandwich for lunch and dessert or how about

a strawberry parfait and dessert? You band and they started laughing, introduced me to the camera department. I don't really tell the story, and and they sort of sending me out. Yeah, they started sending me out. But really what happened, if I can tell you, I was starting to get voice over work, nothing on camera. I had these fangs on my teeth that later I got fixed. I kind of like like a vampire. And I was I was outside smoking a cigarette with this girl. I didn't know who

she was. I was just having a laugh, carrying on, and she goes, oh my god, what do you do. I go, I'm an actor. And she goes, you're an actor. Who's your agency? I go, H S CM and M it was the name of the agency back then. She goes, oh my god. I worked for them, but I work in the young adults department on a different floor and we handle like infant through like one with you know, for acting, you should come meet with us another by chance. It shows you that be kind to everyone. You never

know who you're talking to. You never know. I went up very true. I went upstairs and the woman was on the phone. She was busy. Why why I had long hair, pleather jacket. And the girl goes, hey, and this is Michael. He's with us for commercials and stuff. I want you to meet him. She goes, do you have a monologue prepared? I go, hell, yeah, let's do it. And I just gave her a monologue on the spot

and she goes, okay, we'll wrap you. And they started sending me out and I just I booked a little thing here and then I booked a movie called Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil with Clint Eastwood directing. It took me out to l A and things just happened. I think, if you know, they say when preparation meets opportunity or something, if you're prepared when the moment arises, it's like, that's luck. I was just so eager, so ambitious, so full of life and fun. I don't know where

that went, but that is what happened. And I sort of went to l A and the rest is history started just working, you know, here and there. That is so awesome. I love to hear that because yes, on the surface, right, you get told, oh my gosh, how

lucky are you? But no, I mean you bring up several amazing points in that short story, which is one you were just nice to someone too, Let's be honest, A big part of this business because of the hours upon hours upon hours that you spend with people that you want to work with, good people with people that are that that you get along with, that you feel like are responsible and prepared. And then the fact that in both of those two stories that you told one

someone asked you if you did a voice voiceover. The answer was no, but you remember you had that to recall in that moment. And then also do you have a monologue and you just start doing it, So you were prepared and ready, you just needed an opportunity. I think that is that is fucking awesome. I love that. I think it really you know, I think a lot

of this is luck. There's so many, as you know, tremendously talented actors out there, so many that are undiscovered, and it takes a lot of not only not only luck, but you really have to put yourself out there. Sometimes I'll get a call from uh, you know, Western Kentucky and they'll say, we have a student. He's really talented. When you meet with him, sure, And sometimes I'll ask them this question. I'll say, so, what do you want to be an actors? Like, yeah, you know, I figured

i'd give it a couple of years. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. This is when people start saying that ship like, I'll give it a year, give it two years. I don't know. I was so like, I was knocking on every door. I just this is all I could do. This is all I wanted to do. There was just no other When people were giving me statistics, you know, odds of making it, I was like, not me, you don't know who you're talking to. I have got this. I am

going to be famous. I remember in college, Alexis Combs and I after we did uh we did a play, and I was on her doorstep. I said, hey, it was my senior year, is about to graduate. I said, I want you to remember this moment. She goes, what I go, I'm gonna make it and I want you to remember this moment right here, right now. She goes, Okay, I go, I'm serious. I just feel it. It's just something that I know is going to happen. I can't explain it. It seems egotistical and I'm full of ship,

but really in my heart. I just feel this like you're gonna make it, dude. And she goes, okay, okay, and she kind of laughed and she kind of looked at me like like he's all right. And she wrote me a letter of years later, this beautiful letter and said, I just I remember that moment um. It was really nice. But yeah, I mean, this is a crazy business. It's we're we're lucky to be where we are, and um, you know, I I was a lot of times I was a replacement. This guy were firing this guy, let's

hire Rosenbaum. Yeah he's he's responsible, he's good, he'll do the job. A lot of times I was that guy. And uh, I think small, but was really one of the first times where I wasn't a replacement. I had to get that part. I had to fight for it. I was told that you had a casting submission for a pilot called talk Girl, and wow, this was never GREENLT.

It didn't happen, but it eventually led to the show the temp pilot being conceived for you tell me a little bit about Well, it's just kind of a short story, but uh, it was the one of the first It was the first thing that I got the first job,

and it was for MTV. They were trying to shoot a TV show, so they were shooting a pilot and it was with Leslie bib and Jackson Brown, Jackson Brown's son, Ethan Brown, and me, and I remember for the audition, I went in there and my care I had long hair, and I was wearing this gas attendant shirt I put on, and I just started eating chips while I'm talking to the cast and director and reading my lines, eating these

ships loudly. And she just was like, Okay. They sent the tape to whoever they go, we want this kid, this is the guy. So I went. I remember I got paid five thousand dollars for the pilot. I was rich. I was like, five thousand I could pay off nothing. Um. So I went and we started filming, and you know, I was just always cracking jokes and making the crew laugh and everybody was happy. And finally the show didn't get picked up, and they said, we'd like to do

a project with you. And at first they offered me a VJ, a video jockey. Like you know, it was a lot more money than I was making. It wasn't a ton, but it was and I thought. I said to my friend Matt, I don't know. He goes, well, I go, I don't know, won't that. I want to what do you want to do? I go, well, I'm gonna be an actor. He's like, then you should stick with that because this might take you off the path and you might be a presenter and vij and and so.

I said no, And then they did a special project with me. It was called the Michael rosen Bond Project, which turned into The Temp and the creators of that were Louis Throw. Now, I don't know if you know Louis Throw. Do you know he's the one on He's the one on TikTok that voice goes the money. Don't jiggle, jiggle it fold. I'd like to see you wiggle wiggle

show makes me money. It went wise spread. Everybody was singing it, and the and the and the other guy was Kent Alterman, who was the president or the head of Comedy Central recently, and those two guys that had this idea to do an episode of the show where a guy takes over for someone's job. Each week, he just takes over. I was a zookeeper for a day and then I was in Cats on Broadway. Andrew Lloyd Webber allowed me to be a cat on Broadway in a real show. I had to take six hours of

choreography lessons. I really learned it. I had the full makeup regalia. I could find it somewhere and post it. It is hilarious and the show tested well, and but they, I guess it was ahead of its time. Uh, they didn't pick it up. And for whatever reason they didn't pick it up. And Uh, that was it. Really that was it. Then the next thing I I auditioned for the Tom Arnold Show. It was called the Tom Show way back when, and that was I flew into tests.

I never flying flown first class. I remember being so nervous that I couldn't remember my lines. Tom was there in the room and he started improvising with me and he goes, Heyboddy, how you doing. I was like, good man. He's like, hey, you got a hairy chest. Would you shave your chest for the role? I go, I'd shave your initials in my chest for the role, buddy. And we just kind of hit it off and Tom Arnold calls me up and long story longer, Uh, this show

ended up being the worst show on television. But it was my first show, and I was so excited every day to play like the sixth lead. I mean, I had a few lines, but I worked with Ed McMahon. Ed McMahon's trailer was right next to me, and every day I'd say good morning Ed. He's like, good morning, sir. I go, it was so cold last night, and he go, how cold was it? I got it was so cold. I saw Robin putting his worm in the microwave, weird wound stuff, and we He would just humor me, and

I had such a blast. I used to go in the Universal rides because it was at Universal and I launched, I'd ride the rides. I was living the life, living in a little apartment, not making a ton of money, just so happy. It's funny when I'm bringing this up, all these happy feelings come back. Tom was just really supportive and the show didn't do very well. And in fact, my my grandpa recently died and my dad sent me this book of his IRIY now his diary IRV late IRV.

I love him, he'd write. In nineteen sixty nine, the Mets won the World Series, and then he wouldn't write till nineteen seventy four, and then he wouldn't write n And he has a little chapter about me, and it says grandson Mikey, he's uh, he's an actor. He recently did the Tom Arnold show UG. Then then then he did It's all right, I can read it, and then again then his next project was a show called Zoe Duncan, Jack and Jane a little less UG. And then then

he goes on to say I did Smallville. He said, you know, our grandson has become a small success. I think I was on a fucking hitch show, dude, I was on a hit show. And he said I was. I just thought it was so funny called me a small success. He was always very proud. He was always so proud, unconditional love. He is always there for me, always wrote me letters, and but I never thought he

thought of me as a small success. Well, I don't know if I agree with him, but I find that very funny that your grandpa was refewing in his diary that he feels the need to write down basically that he believes he's proud that you're in it, or at least it's worth being noted after not writing for twenty three years in the time, but then he says the show is shitty. He also he also he also said something like, my grandson Michael is a millionaire. My other grandson,

Eric is not a millionaire. I was like, well, thank you for standing stating the obvious that it was so funny. Oh um, yeah, well Smallville, I heard you weren't excited about it at first. Yeah, well, at first, you know, I was. I'm not putting any shows down, but I wasn't a big comic book fan. I was more in a horror movie scary movies. When you were at my house,

you saw the horror movies. Yes, you were. Your room where we record our podcast is a very impressive temple of memorabilia and posters, signed posters by very impressive people. You always loved horror. Yeah, you know when when I was eight years old, my mother loved horror movies and my father didn't because she would rent like Motel Hell and make them die slowly and make this eight year old watched them with her, and I was horrified, always scared.

But I just thus began the infatuation, if you will, of of horror and that world. And I remember taking their VCR and I take my VCR and I would take horror movies that I rented and sit in my room before in the morning making copies of them. So I just fell in love with horror movies. And I used to go to HORRORCN engines before I was ever

anybody and you know, get autographs and uh. Then I ended up fast forward doing a movie called Urban Legend, which was my first horror movie, and it was pretty amazing. I was working with Robert England, Freddy Krueger and kind of living the dream. But I've always loved horror movies. I think it's kind of an adrenaline rush for me. It's like a like a roller coaster. I like to be scared. I don't like the gory necessarily. I like more psychological or paranormal. Those could be fun. But yeah,

I just that's that's what I like. We talked about The Shining on your podcast. My love of Jack the greatest horror movie ever made. The Shining is is probably the greatest movie horror movie, everybody. One of my favorite movies of all time. And I told you I think my favorite scene is when um Shelley Devall's character comes up to him and says, yeah, yeah, Jack, there's someone in the town. They heard Danny and he looks at her go are you out of your fucking mind? I

just loved it. I mean that was so creepy. But yeah, I love Harmones Nightmare in Elm Street. I love the original Nightmare and Elm Street. I got to work with West Craven on a movie that wasn't great, called Cursed, but we had a great time. And he would he would like each take, you'd say, Rosenbaum, do it like Christopher Walking. So I'd say my lines like Christopher Walking, I'm gonna kill you now, and then you go do it like Malcolm It go now what you couldn't possibly know?

And he goes, okay, now do it like Nicholson and I go, well, what's it gonna be? You know? And I would do the whole thing and he would just like he was so fun. He was like a kid. I loved Wes Craven. Oh, that's awesome. To answer your question, you said I didn't really want small Ville. Well, you know, I thought it was gonna be like a kind of silly Lewis and Clark, or it was gonna be like kind of goofy. I didn't know, and my agent sure me,

said hey, listen, this is gonna be dramatic. And they wanted to be good and shot like a movie every week. And I remember I've told the story, but you know, seven hundred actors audition for that part. I had nothing to lose. I was like, well, I'm not gonna get it. I go ask them this one question, what are seven hundred actors doing wrong? And they came back and said, we want a sense of danger, we want a sense of charisma, we want a sense of intellect. And I

remember all I had was three pages of dialogue. That's all they gave me. So I said, I'm gonna be dangerous. I'm gonna be dangerous here, I circled it. I'm gonna be charismatic here. I went in with no care in the world. And I remember the casting director. She says, Okay, you can sit down and go I'm not gonna sit She goes, what do you mean. I go, well, I want to stand up for this. She goes, we'll have

to re light the I go, I'm sorry. She goes, well, you'll have to go outside for a few minutes while I do that. She was really annoyed, and I was like, funk, why I rehearse the standing up? I want to I want to stand up. I want to show some power. And I came back in and I went in there and I left thinking, uh wow, I'll never give that grade of an audition again. I was in control, I

was in absolute power. I was Lex Luthor. And about a few days later, they said that Michael, they'd like Michael to come and test for the network in the studio and I don't know what it is and I don't recommend this to any actor. I told them, I go, I'm not going in there again. I will bomb. I will never do as well as I just did. You tell them to rewind the tape and I don't know. He says, you're probably not gonna get this. And I get a call a week later and they said, you're

Lex Luthor. I wasn't being a dick. I think I was just like, I can never be as good as I was. Just now, I can't go in there again. They have to just look at this tape and no, it was crazy. Have you you've ever done that before or since? No, I've never done that since. It was just one of those things. I don't know why I did it, and I haven't. I haven't done that since

I've walked out of auditions. I was auditioning for this movie and I was about to sign my name into read for the part, and I said, yeah, I don't feel like it, and I just walked out and I left, and then I the movie came out and I freaking loved it. I loved the movie. I loved the actor who did it. It was Dawn of the Dad, the remake. I for some reason, I just wasn't feeling it for whatever reason, and I just didn't do it. And uh,

that was one of my only regrets, I guess. But you know, I've definitely been I definitely had some auditions where I remember auditioning for Saving Private Ryan good Well, Hunting I read for. I remember a lot of big movies that I read for and didn't get. But you know, and have you ever had the experience. I was just

thinking about this the other day. You know, The Godfather, and there's the basically the Frank Sinatra part, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And he starts crying to the Godfather and he's like, I just need this part. This part is going to change me. It's going to redefine me. You know, it's gonna people are gonna see me in a different way, like and trying to you know, and then he Brando slaps him and it's like, you know, stop crying. I

remember that. Have you ever had that feeling on anything where you think I have to get this, this is gonna change my life, or this is gonna change how people see me in the in the business, or like this is it. Have you ever had that experience? Well? I have had that experience with Roles that I didn't think we're gonna make me, but roles that I really wanted to get that I felt like I had to get.

I had to get and they were all against me. Um. But Smallville was the first time that when I saw the pilot David Nutter, who's one of the most brilliant directors there is. He did The Red Wedding, he did

tons of shows that on TV now. But he came in and I did looping for the pilot, you know, a d R because some of the sound was good, and he showed me the opening and a scene that I had mind you, this is this is a guy me who I remember calling my father and saying, I'm doing this movie and he's like, what movie, who's in it? I go, it's an independent movie and he's like, well then it's not real. No, no, it's okay. So this is the kind of mentality that my parents had and

not a lot of faith in me, and uh. I remember leaving that studio after seeing the opening of Small Villa in my my scene where I'm fencing, and I called my parents and I said, people are gonna know who I am after this role. People are gonna know me. I just felt it, and they're like really, I'm like, yes, get ready. But I don't know I've chipped away, you know. I mean throughout my career, I've kind of done great

things and shitty things and everything in between. And you know, you learned from the shitty things, you learned from the great things, and you know you just kind of try to keep going. Yeah, and I think ultimately you don't ever know. I mean, I I think I've had a few of those, even things that I've gotten and then it was like, oh, you know, nobody watched or you know, got canceled or you know, like whatever. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know what made me think of that? But yeah, you know what, Brian, not to interrupt, to interrupt, you sot to interrupt. I just thought of this. I forgot I was doing this show. It was called Zoe, Duncan, Jack and Jane. They fired Jeremy Renner and then they fired this other guy and they called me into the room and I watched the pilot they had shot with Jeremy Renner, and I walked into this room of executives and I said, why would you fire that? He was

so great? And they go and they looked at me. They go because of you, because of what you're just doing right now. And I remember they bought billboards and subway things, and they wanted this to be the next Sign, felt, the Young Sign felt. They poured money into it, Warner Brothers board everywhere you look, you see my face and Selma Blair and David Moscow and as You're a sky and I thought, Wow, this is going to be big, This is gonna be and it just went nowhere. It

went nowhere. We did two seasons and the ratings weren't very good. The writing got worse because I think the creators got fired. Uh. And it was a shame he was. But you know that's why I think you learn as you get older that nothing's a slam dunk. In fact, everything's probably gonna not be a slam dunk. You just you just gotta go hit your mark, hopefully get paid, see what happens, to do the best you can. Ye, you get cast in Smallville. You're not a comic book

guy as you as you said more in Horror. But I mean you're aware of of Gene Hackman. You're aware of you know. I mean, you're aware of Lex Luthor and this is like an iconic role that has been played by iconic actors in the past. Is there an added pressure or for you? Are you just trying to come up with your version? I mean it sounds like you felt confident early on that you came up with

your version and kind of left the rest alone. Well, first of all, at a convention of a couple of years ago, this guy waits in line to see me, and then once he gets up to me, goes, Gene Hackman was the best Lex Luthor ever. And I looked at him and I go, I agree, And then it kind of sucked off. What and I do? I I love Gene Hackman. You know. I went in thinking, look, I'm an actor, make this reel, make this grounded, make this genuine. That's what I read in the audition. Just

do that. Sure, there was like pressure. I was like, how could they be casting me on this goofball? I had done silly movies, silly TV shows, and now they're casting me as Lex freaking Louther. My friends were like, I can't see this. What do you? What do they want? What's happening? You have certain friends to ground you. That was that, But um, I just did it my way.

I did it the way that I felt, and and the creators always told me this has gotta be real, this has gotta be genuine, and um no, no twirling of the mustache. No, I'm Lex Luthor and I just stuck with that. So um yeah, I don't think I had as much pressure as I would if there were more social media around that time. Was it your idea or was it the creator's idea for him to have that complexity and depth and be in a way sympathetic and charismatic, likable. What what was the discussion surrounding how

he would be played? I think what they do? I think what creators and writers do is they have an idea of something and then the actor plays a part, and from that they start to see things that that actor is creating and the strengths that he has or

she has. And I believe that as the show slowly went on, they started seeing certain things and they started writing for me, writing for what they know I could do, what I'm capable of, and they didn't know, you know, how explosive I could, because there were times when this character just explodes and goes through such hell that um, I think it was they were just seeing how it would work, and then once they saw that it worked,

they would continue pushing that envelope. But I felt like it was always written to be charming, something behind the eyes, something a little dangerous, just like those notes that they gave me early on in the audition. They wanted to sense all those things at any given time, and I always kept that in mind. Yeah, how do you feel like Lex's and Superman's relationship was different in Small Field

than than maybe other shows that we've seen or movies. Well, it was the first time that we saw the story. Before the story this was Clark Kent on his journey from adolescence, you know, and Lex Luthor's these guys become friends in the small town and slowly as their friends they go separate ways. And so that was an interesting dynamic. And how do you do it over the span of ten years. I mean, they did the best they could, and I think there were some great moments and some

great arcs. But I found it to be really compelling and interesting. You know, you'd feel you'd root for Lex. There are people that you would really root for Alex because you saw what hell he went through as a child.

And when you see a villain, I think that's the biggest problem with movies or TV now, if you're just seeing someone be evil, but if you see why they became evil, you see their childhood, the hell of it they went through, and how they got here, then you start to go, oh, but I understand, he shouldn't do that, and he's not good, but I you know, And and that's what I did love, because I think a lot of people did gravitate towards that character, even though they

know inevitably will become so dark and um, you know, I always make the joke it's Clark Kent's fault that Lex became evil because he lied to me. If he wouldn't have lied about his secret, we would have been they've been best friends. We would have ruled the world together. Been great. Right. It's complicated, right because everyone knows and identifies already as ex luthor being a villain. In fact, you're named one of the sixty Nastiest villains of all time.

But he is in a lot of ways, has some similarity to the great great television of this time, which was focused on the anti hero. For me, I mean, you talk about Walter White or Tony Soprano, you know, amazing characters who are sympathetic and at the same time incredibly evil. Really, you are in that line lex slash, you as in that line of characters created at this time that are sort of in that mold. I never thought about that, And that's really interesting when you talk

about those characters. That's true with Walter White. You see that he's he's this science teacher, chemistry teacher, and you see that he's flawed and picked on by people, and he's just kind of going through the motions and just

can't get any respect. And like then he finds out he has cancer or whatever and just a terrible existence, and then everything changes and then he becomes this evil guy, but you still kind of you want to like him throughout the way because like what he went through and like he's doing all these things, but he ends up at a point where you're just like, Okay, oh my god, he's gone too far, right, Yeah, I do like that.

I think there needs to be more of that. I I you know, I want to root for you know, it's great if you if you root for the bad guy, if you're in a way, um just you know, if you could relate to you know, his past or you know what he's gone through. I think that's I think that's really interesting. That makes for interesting TV. Well, it's I don't know that I've shared this. Maybe maybe I have shared this. This is about me and I'm supposed to be talking to you. But when I was five,

I was the Wicked Witch for Halloween. And I think that this is the time my dad caught some ship for it. I mean he never specifically said, like who said what, but that like his son is full green make up the Wicked Witch of the West obviously in the dress and the pat and the whole deal. And it wasn't just that, but even early on as a kid, those Disney characters, it was always the bad guys, and

still to this day. I mean, the Wicked Witch of the West is the most interesting character, and the Wizard of Oz. Let's be clear, those characters are so compelling and complex that I think for me as a kid, I gravitated toward them and it didn't you know, gender, bad, whatever, didn't even matter. It was like what they were just such great characters, right. Yeah, the Wicked Witch of the West is one of the scariest characters or villains in the history of cinema, hands down. I have a giant

portrait of her. I think Elmira mulch and h. I have it downstairs and still to this day, I I she scares me, so I don't see anything wrong with that. Yeah. Um, your time on on Smallville comes to an end ten ten years. I did seven seven for you. Uh, talk to me when you find out it's coming to an end. Are you happy at this point? Do you feel like your time is done? Yeah? You know, my contract was

for six years. I signed on for a seventh and they wanted me for three more years, and I just felt like I had done all that I could, and I felt like I was getting bored with the same kind of storyline and I've done what I needed to do, and so I just decided I'd let them know ahead of time that this is my last season. And a lot of people thought I quit the show, and I was like, no, I actually signed on for another year. I just I'm not gonna do ten years of this.

So it was emotional. In fact, I came back for the final episode the series finale, and we did and I'm glad I did it. It would kind of like put an exclamation point on the end of my run on the show and the show itself, but um, it was emotional. These people that and you know that us. I've spent more time with Natalie, my makeup artist, than I have with my mother and my entire life. Right in my entire life. I've had more conversations in the in two days than I've ever had with my mother.

She was my mother, she was my family. All these the crew, and it was just like, these are people that you walk every day. You see, this is your life. And so when it ended, it was it was depression. I was just like, oh my god, this is an end of an era. This is ten months a year for seven years. And it took some time to sort of like kind of clean that in my system and and move on to start directing and do my podcasts and do other things, and so, uh, it definitely was

emotional and um an amazing time of my life. Yeah, you talked about having no voice over experience earlier, but you do Justice League. How many years of Justice League? Are you still doing it? No? I did Justice League for three or four years, but then I've done like Thornberry's the Jackie Chan Chronicles. Uh, there were tons. I've done so much voiceover and all that. But what's funny is I was doing so well with voiceover and then

I got in more into acting. I started doing more TV and movies, and I kind of let the voiceover stuff go away. And now I'm trying to get back into it, and it's like this little click. It's hard to get back into. I'm like, they have their guys, they don't want me anymore, and people like, yes, that's your good voice, but well, what do you want me to do about it? So I try to get back into it. I'd like to do more ride with ease, Chevrolet. I'd like to do a Chevrolet spot. Do you do

a lot? I do some, I don't do a lot. I've gotten quite a bit of projects, but I'm still not one of I'm not in that click that you're referring to. And for those of you who don't know, it's because your face is not seen. There are directors and cat thing directors and very talented ones who again know who's reliable and who's nice to work with. And because it's not about seeing the same face over and over and people can change their voice, they just call

the same people. And so it's very difficult. It's very difficult to get on that that speed dial. It is. Yeah, I just I want to be in that world again. Though. It's a fun world. It's cool people, it's a it's easy, it's you know, creative. I just I like you don't have to put makeup on to do voiceovers. Talk to me just a little bit about Impastor. Oh man, I love that show. It was the short lived show. Uh TV Land wanted to do something darker. It was about a guy who was a criminal who poses as a

gay pastor in the small town. It was a funny quirky little show. You can watch the first two seasons on Hulu. People really love the show. It's just it's kind of like a fletched sort of character and way, yeah, I'm I'm I'm funny, physical comedy, I'm a pot smoking imbecile, and just all the trouble that he gets into and in the sweet little town working for this church giving fake sermons and came out like four or five years ago. I love doing it. It was a great job. And uh,

for whatever reason, they canceled after two seasons. They said at the time they just wanted something more female oriented. So I was like, well, I guess this isn't it. Well, I really enjoyed the show, and uh, I enjoyed the show since reading the pilot. Someone sent me the pilot to read. Apparently somebody thought someone else would do a better job as the as the impastor. I don't know, you're a pastor too. I did, Yes, I did, and I would have been great in a different way. I

would have not been you. You would have been you would have been you. I would have been me and not about you. But I actually I thought the script was so great. It was one of those where I was like, oh, yeah, I would love to do this. I would love because again, it would have been very, very different for me. Um, but apparently they went with you. That didn't last long. But it was a blast. It was a blast, It was a dream job. I wish

that show would have went on. A lot of people wanted that show to continue, and uh, it would have been fun. But you know, that's that's life. That's that's the industry. That's the industry. I could talk to you forever. Gardens, Guardians of the Galaxy. Now you're coming back for part three? Yes, some Part three I filmed last year and I also filmed this year, So I'm coming back as Martin X, who in the comments was one of the original Guardians.

Now he's a Ravager. I'm I'm sliced alone sidekick coming back for Guardians three, which will be out in two thousand twenty three. And then I got my podcasts one that you were on. I love it. I have been going back to listen, favorite favorite interview. Well you Honestly, I'm not saying because you're here, but you were fantastic when you left. That was like, that was freaking great. You're just so charismatic and fun to be around. That's why we must eat chili and go golf. And we will,

we will do that. We will. Besides me though, UM, I love Bob oden Kirk, I loved Judd Apatel, I loved uh Zach Levy, Stephen M. L from Arrow, I love Henry Winkler. Um. I mean there are so many great ones that I really love Crispin Glover. Um. But it's it's great. You know. What I love about the podcast is that we talked about someone's life, but it's

very candid. It's not very you know, two actors talking, but it's more about people and talking about you know, mental health and life and how they get by, how they face adversity. And so it's called Inside of You with micro rosamum. So and you're you're one of my favorite guests ever. And uh it was exciting listen. I truly I could talk to you all day. We discussed we have to keep it to an hour. Maybe they'll be apart, maybe there'll be a part two at some point.

Any anytime I've been known to do that. UM. I have so so enjoyed getting to know you both on on your podcast and here today, and uh, this is the start of a beautiful thing. That's what I said. That's what really is to the start of think so too. I I adore you, I adore your talent, adore you having me on the show. I can't wait to hang out with you and your Your producers are very lovely, high ladies. Good to see you well. They are amazing. Uh, Michael,

thank you so much. That was amazing. You know it, I know it. Everyone knows it. Thank you, Michael, Thank you so much. Great talking to you. Thank you for stopping by. Listeners. Make sure you check out his podcast Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum to see what it's like when our roles are reversed. I asked him questions, he asks me questions. Spoiler alert, It is awesome. While you're at it, give us a follow at Off the Beat on Instagram. Tell your five closest friends how amazing

this podcast is. That would be your gift to me. Tell five people how much you enjoyed listening to the podcast today, and I will consider you my new best friends. Yep, that's all. I'll be back next week, same time, but with a new guest and a new episode. For your well you're listening. Pleasure, We'll see you then. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian ba Gartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia,

Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton,