On this program, you introduce yourself, so it's your version of the following sentence. It could be literally anything. Hi, my name is Michael Pena and I blank whenever you're ready.
Well, I was good, Uh, just bad stuff.
It's bad stuff. It's fine.
No, but nobody's gonna say, like, hey, I'm Michael Panna. Fuck, nobody's gonna say that.
You could say whatever.
No, no one's gonna say that. Nobody should say that. No, it's because I heard my kids say and all of a sudden, I'm like, hey, I'm like, that's kind of cool. Hi. I'm Michael Penya and I'm an actor musician.
Hello, They're friends, and welcome to a brand spanking new episode of Off the Beat. This is your host Brian Baumgartner. Today, I am very very excited to bring on my good friend and golfing campadre Michael Pania, a man who has fought tirelessly for the NYPD, the LAPD, the DEA, the CIA, and the MCU, at least on screen. You may know him as Luis on ant Man Kiki Camarina in Narcos Mexico, or from his classic role as Armando Renta on one
of my favorite shows the Shield. Mike has been in a ton of incredible movies and TV shows, not the least of which Crash, Million Dollar Baby, American Hustle, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And some of you parents listening might be familiar with his roles on Tom and Jerry or Dora and The Lost City of Gold. The man has range people, and he has worked with truly some of the best in the business. So with that said, let's just dive in, shall we. Here he is Michael Pina.
Bubble and Squeak. I love it Bubble and Squeak. I know, Bubble and Squeak. I cook get every mon lift over from the night before.
Hey, buddy, how's it going.
Oh hey dude, good to see you, buddy.
Oh boy, yes, here's the thing. I know you just had a rough, rough travel experience. I feel like a person never feels more helpless than when you're than when you're stuck, because there is truly nothing you can do, no and.
It's it was weird. So we were just talking about it. You know, I got stuck in Newark for about over twenty four hours, and you know, they say we can have a voucher. It was. It was basically at five o'clock my flight, and then they kept and they kept delaying it, and then and then it was like eleven o'clock at night and the plane was there, I think, but they just didn't have a crew. So and then and then we're like, they're like, come back in the morning.
And then we got there at seven thirty eight, nine ten, still not there. And then we get news like at noon that they're waiting for a crew, and I was like, dude, just tell me that in the beginning, right, And then so I went to social media. Dude, I got on my Instagram and I became one of those dudes where I was like, where, I don't like this. And then but what was good. What was good is that other I saw other people are like, dude, are you new
York too? And I was like I am and so but but there was like so many flights out of Newark that were just getting stuck, and it was like coming home from a great charity event, you know, from Portland, Maine and stuff. But I know that's the only times I ever do that.
I want.
I wanted to be there as well, but after seeing your not you didn't want you didn't.
Want to be in Newark. No, no tournament.
I did not want to be I did not want to be stuck with you. No, let me ask you a question, because I you said the voucher. An airline will give you a voucher for a room. Here is what I do not understand. Okay, people who say they spent the night at an airport, why are they doing this?
Well, because here's the thing. Here's the here's the thing. Now it's a new automated thing. So like, instead of talking to a person, you get in line to talk to a person, and if by any chance, like and it was taking hours and hours, and I'm like, dude, it's already taking three hours. So all the flights that were canceled. Imagine if there's two hundred people on a flight and then there's like a thousand people trying to get through. Everyone's trying to get that voucher, and then
there's a apparently there's a limit on the voucher. And so what they did was they gave us some gummy bears and and and dude, the gummy bears was so good. Dude, when you haven't eaten and everything's closed and shake Shack. You could still smell it, but you can't order it. Those gummy bears were so good. And Dorito's, you know they got the you know the just top shelf basket snacks, right, yeah, and so but anyway, so I'm like, I try to get I tried to get a voucher and you know,
just to just out of principle. I was like, dude, I'm going to get this vouchuer. I just gave up. But it was only for two hundred bucks. The Uber. The uber, I mean ride to and from the airport is two hundred bucks at least because.
You have to go to the new slept in there. So you did. You did what I was saying. You didn't go to a hotel.
No. No, I wasn't Tom hankson terminal. No, but there's were there were people that actually slept there. And it's weird because you you see these people for twenty four hours and then you start talking to them, and then you get so bored. You're like, I'm just talking to anybody, and you know, because you're you're just trying to pass the time. And here's the other weird thing. Jet Blue was across the way from US, and they're saying like, oh,
there's weather. Jet Blue doesn't give a rats ask dude, They're like they're sending people off, Dude. You know, I was like, man, I should have booked jet Blue for just that one trip. Yeah, there's a lot of crazy information, but dude, I'm always gonna remember those gummy bears.
Yeah, those gummy bears. Nothing tastes nothing tastes good as still Airport gummy bears.
Well, it's almost like, yeah, it reminds you of like when you're a kid that no matter what, like you're in the back seat and you're traveling forever and then they hand you like a little pace of candy and everything's all way, everything's okay, and you're like and I was at sucker. I was like, these are pretty good gummy bears.
Right.
Uh, well, I hope your travel experience to beautiful Lake Tahoe is not the same.
Yeah, are you going to be there?
American Century Championship. I'm going to be there. I can't wait. My favorite week of the year. I didn't I didn't get the I didn't get the warm up tournament like you guys did there in Portland, Maine.
So that's my excuse this year.
Oh you didn't get What's what's weird is that we get thrown into these you know, there's these guys that are like really really good golfers. They're like semi pro or a little bit less than semi pro. They can't really compete with the pros, but they play tournament, you know, especially all these guys that are retired, you know, they you know, like where you know, we keep working and stuff, and I feel weird if I don't work, you know what I mean. I'm like hopefully, like I just keep
on working and I'm never going to retire. So they have a lot, you know, they do all these tournaments blah blah blah. I do like three a year. So they toss you in these tournaments like as if you're a pro, you know what I mean, Like they have thousands of people around you. Yeah, and I you know, and I sometimes I'm like, do you people really shouldn't be standing out here? Man? Like, dude, what do you like? How many people do you think get hit every year and don't care?
Maybe it's cool man, A lot a lot.
I will tell you I had I had an especially I don't remember who I was playing with but last year teeing off on the first tee, I had an especially large gallery teeing off and you know there's that there's the you know, the the tea box on the left. I came here if it's one or ten, and there's a tree to the right just over the water there.
And yeah, that's that's number one. That's it.
I blocked one right into that tree and there were I don't know seventy five people trying to hide behind one skinny little tree. And I thought, this is it, this is it. I've been here fifteen years. This is the year I kill somebody. This is gonna happen.
Oh my gosh, dude. And so that like obviously like I hit a person, but it bounced, bounced, then hit like a person like on the back or something, and so it was it wasn't. It wasn't on the fly where you could really hurt somebody, right, And and you know, even in professional tournaments, they give them a glove and they're like, they gave me the glove. It's there. It's their version of the gummy bears, you know what I mean.
They're bleeding from their head and you're like, look, look they gave us a glove.
They gave me a glove.
They gave me a glove, and then on top of it, I'm gonna I'm gonna give that person the gummy bears that I got from the airport, you.
Know exactly just opened. Just there's like seven left.
You're want to give them a partial one?
Yeah, no, but it's uh, it's it's my favorite week of the year. What I always say is it's it is for me. I probably care too much. It is my hardest week of the year, but it is the the I love it so much. Yeah, it's so difficult. Uh, you know, it's like seventeen now, I'm okay. This is with all the people off the first off, the first t Yeah, getting getting that peg on the ground that on that first TUD.
I think I wish they would put like a camera on the first t like on the ground, just to see.
This, yeah, shaking hand, just shaking of the hand.
And dude, what was interesting to me is I'm like, dude, the most decorated of professionals, like you know, NBA champions, like NFL, Super Bowl winners, like all this stuff, and then you see their handshake and then you're like Oh dude, I'm screwed. Man. If those guys, if those guys are shaking, I was like, dude, what about an actor that learns poetry you know what I mean to tell to say in front of people, like and I mainly do movies, which is really small, you know what I mean?
Right?
Yeah, So I'm like, I think it's okay, but like I get, I think the whole game of it, the major game, is just kind of controlling your nerves, right like, because it's yes, I get, I get so keyed up. Man. I'm like, I swing like seventy five percent, and I'm just just like anything, right, Like, I guess acting and auditions, like how are you at the audition for the Office, for instance.
Well, I mean I've said now that I was so I had been doing theater before that, and I think that there was a there was a part of me that I was I was too ignorant to be nervous, like I was too, I was too sort of young. I was too I hadn't been through the kind of the battles, the failures, the like humiliations, the you know.
Just different situations. So I think I was I was more.
I think I was way more loose than than I would have been now for sure.
Yeah, bro, I were do you just remind to me. I remember going to like a it wasn't a Levi's commercial because I was able to get that one, but I didn't have like the commercial look. And I remember there was there was some shit. They were like, yeah, yeah, it's one of those where you're like, take your shirt off, and I was like, yeah, sure, no problem. And I'm like, yeah, okay, put it back on. Put it back on. And they didn't even take a picture. They didn't they didn't even
take a picture. I'm like twenty five years old, and I used to wrestle in high school and I was in good shape, and I was just just so dumb about it that I was like, oh, I guess I'm not in that great but great a shape anymore. You didn't want to take a picture just to laugh with your friends. Yeah, so there was talk about embarrassment, dude, there was You didn't have that that scar tissue where
when you're first starting out as an actor. I don't know why, but like you just because you get rejected so much that you really want to have the feedback, Like why didn't they want me, And why did they choose Denzel Washington? Just tell me, you know, you know, and and and and they finally get feedback and blah blah blah, and it's always not good. You know. It's like it's like he's not handsome enough, he's not thin enough, he's too thin, he's not It's always it's one thing
or the other, you know what I mean. And you just get crushed and you need to know. It's like it's almost like talking to your ex girlfriend. You're like, are you dating right now? No, that's right. You can tell me. I don't care. I don't care you are Oh my gosh, you know what I mean?
What does he have that I don't?
Is he on his next top model? Is he?
Yeah?
He graduated from Harvard too, he did.
So let's go back to your earlier days just a little bit. You grew up in Chicago, I know, talk to me a little bit about your childhood. Your parents both from Mexico. Did that did that shape you early on?
Well?
What what what was that for you in Chicago with two Mexican parents in the seventies and eighties.
Well, first of all, was it was it was I had like the weirdest and craziest childhood because I'm like, we were super poor and everybody worked all the time, right, and and so my parents were like really hard workers, right, So they instilled that in me, right, And so my dad was working two jobs, my mom was working two jobs just to put us in prep school.
Right.
And so I lived in sixteenth in California, which is right by Coke County Jail, across the street from Douglas Park, which is the hood, right, and then I'd have to travel all the way to Maria's prep school, like one hundred blocks one hundred some odd blocks. Well, I didn't travel from there, but that's where I started. And then
I went to prep school. And then so there's guys named Bartholomew, who's whose dad is a trial lawyer, and and you know Jeremiah, who's you know who's They're all like judges and lawyers and senators and you know, real
estate mogul. Like it's so funny. It was like I came from really really poor and then all of a sudden, I went to this school where it's like old money is crazy, dude, because even if everybody lost their jobs in that family, they would still be okay, their great grandkids would still be Okay, that's that's old money, you know what I mean, where they have they have their hands and so much. And I was like, what do your parents do and you're like, uh, you know what,
we actually we're just in buttons. And then I look them up and they have ten factories that make buttons, and I and then one one of my friends is like, oh, we do soap, you know, and they always have that kind of affected, you know thing. And I worked at a soap factory. So I'm like, I got a job working for this kid's dad and you know, it was just his Yeah, that's their last name right there.
Yeah.
No, So that was during the day and then when I would get home, they're like, go back because you could read Hume And I was like, you know, so like it was just two different, two different lives that I was living at the same time. That was kind of crazy. And across the street from Douglas Park, you know, there was a lot of kids that were being shot and killed because they would stay out, you know, past when it was dark or or if you you know, were hanging out like say you went to the store,
and there were some gang members. We were taught to not go in there, even if we were really thirsty or really whatever, because what would happen is that drive bys, you know, they they would see other gang members and that's when you would get shot. That's when you would be the innocent bystander who got shot, you know what
I mean. So you had to, you know, do your reconnaissance really quickly and see if there's gangsters there, or sometimes gangsters were drunk and you know, they they forgot who you were, and then maybe they they forgot that you were from the neighborhood. And you know, so there was a lot of kids that were dying and getting killed. So like Mama got cable and rather and we were super active. But instead of you know, letting us go outside and you know, ride our bike or anything, she's like,
just watch cable. Just watch cable and and don't go outside. You know. So we were watching a lot of a lot of HBO, like you know, like Bachelor Party with Tom Hanks. And then we were like and then you know, there was the back button that went to CB like PBS or something like immediately like if we heard any keys and we and we but the good thing is that we had five different locks, so it would take a while, you know what I mean, we had a little good time. We wouldn't we wouldn't switch it until
the second door. So so that was so that was it. But you know, to be honest with you, I was a break dancer. I was a like we everybody would, you know, we we would we were bad rappers, but we wrap in the you know, in the in the corner or with our friends or whatever. And then we would everybody was drawing and and then my other would come home with these crazy stories because he was a year and a half older than me, and he was
come up with these crazy stories. And because we had we didn't have the vocabulary that we do now, he would imitate the people to me. And then I was like, dude, this is really cool that I started imitating people to him. And that's how I actually started acting, right was and then my mom was really good at it. And my mom was was you know, she was the funny one in the family. She was hilarious. Dude. She would say things that you know that would embarrass you, but there
was stuck with so much truth. She could have been a stand up comedian if she wanted to. She was badass, and my dad was a really serious man, very so I guess that's where I get the you know, like you know, I like doing comedy and being with my mom's energy, and then drama is definitely my dad's energy because he was a very brooding He is a very brooding kind of a guy. But that's how I started acting. It's just imitating people to my brother.
Was there ever a point where you almost made another choice and and not stay home and go out were you were you recruited to go into a gang or a different group.
No, I wasn't ever recruited because by the time I got to because I remember I went to uh st Nick's and I was a skateboarder at the time, right, and for some reason it was really cool, but they left the skateboarders, you know alone. You know, we had baggy pants and we wore a lot of khakis, you know, plaid shirts just to make sure that you weren't wearing like at that time, it was a lot of yellow, gold, red, blue. Yeah, those were the four that we just kind of stayed
away from. And because blue stood for a lot of different gangs, and gold and yellow stood for oddly enough, like two of the gangs that were warring against each other. So I could just imagine he's like, is that yellow or is that gold? I can't tell hide. Should we shoot him or not?
I can't tell God.
So it's like, that's a tough one. Bro. We got asked, can you imagine, dude? But anyway, so, yeah, so they left us alone.
You talked about in fact, I heard you used to charge twenty five cents to your your classmates to do impressions, and you're doing impressions with your family. Did you think at this point this is what I want to do. Was there a moment for you? Was there a moment for you?
No, man, because I was I was in football, wrestling, track, and then freestyle wrestling during the summer, right, and then I took second in the City of Chicago and wrestling, and then I went downstate and freestyle and I took like fifth or sixth uh, But that was freestyle, not folk style, because I I I went downstate my junior
senior year. But then I I always had injuries, like I had a dislocated thumb where I couldn't you know, I couldn't use it and my mom didn't let me wrestle, so I didn't know what if I could have placed or not. But yeah, so I was I was on that route and I was I was. I was one of those kids that was really good at math for some reason because my mom taught us timestables by the
time we were like three or four. You know, she just you know, she wanted to make something of us, and she definitely instilled like the hard work, and you know, while we were she would make it fun, like she's like, what's this time At the time, She's like, and then you get it. You get a scoop of once again, the gummy bears. But here's like that you get you get a scoop of of cereal, you know what I mean. But we like to play the game, you know, even
though like whatever it was. And then my brother was always really good at math too, and so I did calculus when I was like a junior or something, or in college algebra when I was like yeah, so and then I went into ap cows and so you know, math, uh, you know, it was something that was that I was pretty good at, and so I thought I was one to I want to get into finance but more of the more probably of the you know, the the numbers cruncher trying to find an angle, you know, more of
an analyst than I would be that of a salesman or a trader, because I used to work at the Board of Trade when I was seventeen, because that's what I thought I was going to get into. So I wanted to rub shoulders with a bunch of those guys. And then one day, you know, this was before college
or anything. I ended up not going to college, but I kept imitating these guys who were just slammed on coke, trading and analyzing and doing you know, like they were just they were amazing because like they were so slammed on coke that they didn't know they thought they were fooling everybody. They're like, you know what I'm saying, Pal, you know what I'm saying, Pal, That's what I'm saying. Pow Mike, Right, Mike, great, dude, you're doing a great job.
And I was like, dude, what is this guy chewing up? Like what the hell was he doing? There's a you know, and they were talking to you, and but anyway, so I would imitate him, and I would do that and then my best friend SOMs like, you should be an actor, and I'm like what, Oh my god, you should be an I was like, what nobody in my neighborhood is an actor, you know what I mean? And she I missed the first one, which was zebra Head. They were having an open call in Chicago. She forced me to
go to the second one. And in the second one, I.
Auditioned This is to Sir with Love Part two, Part two.
And I was like, dude, I was angry, dude. I was like. I was hanging out with my friend Vinnie, and I was like, I gotta go to this thing, man. And so we were partying the night before. We were drinking and I was like eighteen or nineteen, I don't know what that one was. We were drinking and then, you know, I remember waking up in the morning. I was like, oh, I gotta go and there was like three thousand kids, and I remember there was like four
paragraphs and I had read each one of them. I really got into like hip hop, and you know, we would sing all the songs, so that felt a little bit like acting. So I was like, I'm just gonna imitate this guy that I've seen on TV. You know, like, I've seen this character before, and I've seen that character before. I'm gonna seen that one. And then so I did it, and after the second one, the guy's like, who's your agent? Who's your agent? So like real estate agent? Like what
do you mean? I had no clue, dude. I thought this guy, by the way, it's summer, it's Chicago, right, and this guy's got an ascot on right, And I was like, dude, this, who's this guy? Who? No, no, no, it was his producer. And he's like, just tell me who your agent is, you know, one of those Like it's a different flow, you know what I mean. It's like, just tell me who are your agent? This that's fine. They set you up, this is fine. I was like, listen, man,
I don't have a real estate agent. And he's like, no, you're acting agent. And I was like, okay, man, I don't know. Dude. He's like, we want you to come back. I'm like for what I was combating him, mude. He's like he's like, do you want I'm like, I have to come back again, and I'm like, yeah, just go
to this person. I went to the casting director. Casting director says puts me on tape and says, you could really do this, And then I auditioned like five more times and I don't end up getting the part, but instead, you know, I was like, screw it. I'm you know. One of my friends Sam said you should try to be an extra in it. I was like, all right, whatever, and I had no idea about what any of this stuff was. And I'm sitting down and then I could see that the producer with the ascot said that's the
kid that auditioned that almost got the part. And so they selected like ten kids, me being one of them to be a featured extra. And so the crazy blessing was that I got to see Sydney Poitier beginning to end start rehearsals, learn, you know, put it on its feet, fail miserably and like what is that line? Why should I do this? Put a question mark? You know, he was memorizing his lines and going through the and I
saw like a master at work. And immediately I was like, all right, if I can, if I have any any little bit of talent, I want to do what that guy's doing, because it was amazing, dude, like he was just talking to you. And then all of a sudden, this guy got emotional and he was funny and he was charismatic, and he saw it grow from rehearsals to the final product. Like the guy was a magician, you
know what I mean. And for some reason, to me, it was almost like sports where you're like, Okay, maybe you're not good in the beginning, but if you work on it a little bit through repetition and just applying yourself, you're gonna get better. And that's exactly what he did. But I had no idea when I got to Hollywood that I was dealt with one of the legends in Hollywood, right, And so, yeah, dude, A crazy gift. A crazy gift, dude. And I was as an extra.
Wow, but that you were given that opportunity to just watch and learn and see somebody do it. Was he generous to you.
Kid. Gosh, dude, He's like he came up to me, He's like, you know, that's when I started acting, when I was nineteen. I was like, that's really cool, and he's like, could you do me a favor? It was like whatever you want. He's like, just be in one spot. I'm like, no problem, no problem, because what happened is that I was in this shot. I was in that shot. I was in this shot. I was the worst extra
of all time, dude. They had to cut around me, and they had to enlarge some of the things because I thought, Daddy's going to go in front of the camera, dude, you know what I mean. I thought I was going to like my job was just to be in front of the camera, so I always in front of the camera.
You eventually side to move to Los Angeles, and pretty quickly it appears to me book your first feature film my fellow Americans with I mean, you talk about Sidney Poitier being a legend. Two more Jack Lemon and James Garner. What was that experience getting that that well film?
Well, I got to tell you before before I did that, Like the casting director after the movie said you should get an agent. I was like, oh yeah, this agent thing again, right. So they sent me to Stewart Agency in Chicago, Okay, And and they sent me to a to a coach to see what range I had by And this guy's name is Glen Haynes, really cool guy.
And then we did a couple of scenes and after those scenes he's like screw it, because because the casting director and everybody else said you should do theater in Chicago and really own your craft and then and then go. So I met this coach and the coach is like, yeah, but to be honest with you, you can be on NYPD Blue three times, you know, all these other shows and learn how to act while you're doing that. Wait what So he's like, you should be in LA right now,
and I was like, okay, cool. So I went to LA and I kept going to more open calls. I thought that the open call was the way to go. So I'm like, I kept I went to the open call for Dangerous Minds, okay, and they're like, you know, you could just get an agent and do that. He's like, well no, but I was an extra. Yeah yeah. And then I went to producers for Dangerous Minds and all that stuff, and then and then I went to another one, and then finally there was an agent. There's like, hey,
why don't I help you out? And I was like, how much do you charge? Ten percent? Now? I think I'm just going to do the open call thing. Dude. I did, And then I kept going open calls, but for like small movies that weren't very good about right, and I was like, I don't want somebody to take ten percent. But anyway, Glenn Haynes introduced me to a cast, a beautiful cast by the name of Karen Ray. And Karen Ray says, you know, there's a part in here for you, and I was like, okay, cool, and I
went and she coached me through it. She was such a like uncool dude, you know what I mean. It just it takes a lot of people just to even get a little bit of a break, right. And so I auditioned for it. I wasn't good in the first audition, and then she pulled me aside. She was a little angry. She's like, you got to give the energy. You got to give the energy. This guy's like, you know, he's desperate to get back home, blah blah blah, this and that.
Do that. She's like, Okay, that's it, and then she brought me back. Peter Siegel is the guy that gave me my first real job. He Saturday and he's like, I love it. Can you do it again? Try this? Try that perfect? And then like I was naive enough to do this movie with Jack Lemon and James Garner, who I only knew Jack Lemon from Grumpy Old Men.
That's how I wrote it down in my in my thing, and so I, you know, then I started watching all this stuff like, oh my gosh, this guy won, you know, he won an oscar, and so I was blessed enough to like go and they were playing paying me a weekly rate and per diem super great, and I was the rain cover. I was for cover, right, So basically that means that like they get you on set in Greenville, North Carolina, just just in case it rains, they hit
your scene, right. I was there for eight weeks getting paid. Wow. It was insane, dude. I was like, whatever the minimum was, that's what I was getting paid. But I was getting paid that every week. I was like, this is great. And then finally when they're like, oh, we're gonna do your scene now, I'm like, are you sure? Are you sure? I don't think it's going to rain. They're like, we're close to the end. So we did my scene, but
then they put me in another sea. So I was like, I got more money, and I was like I was able to save that money, you know, so, because after that it wasn't I was like trying to get you know, then you get tossed into the almost the real world, right, find out that there's like a thousand people that look just like you.
Right.
What was your family's response to seeing you on screen for the first time.
My mom was sick at the time, so she wasn't doing well, and my dad was.
Like, it's good, it's good, okay.
You know, but you know, I came home skinny, and they didn't know what the hell was going on because, you know, I didn't have enough money for food, and so they just wanted me to come home like, yeah, there's this little part, but he's not starring in it. They had no idea that that was a pretty big breaker. Thy. You know, my parents were farmers for Mexico, and so this whole thing was brand new, you know.
Right.
I have to ask you about this because of our earlier conversation and our mutual love. Is it true that you picked up golfing while filming my fellow Americans?
Well that's when I first heard of it, right, Okay, because Jack Lemon, you know, kept talking about it, and I'm like, at this time, I'm like twenty years old, and I was like, what's going on here, dude, is what is this crap? Right? And then after that that's when I'm like, years later, I went to like a driving range and then you know, I don't know where I was, but like there was a there was a VW bug about eighty yards away, and then the you know whoever was at the you know, the guy driving
the tractor. He's like, yeah, I get a bucket of balls to try to hit it on the fly. And I was like, no problem. It took me like seven buckets blisters like, and I couldn't do it. And that's when I was hooked, because I was but thank god, I was like I was, you know, I immediately was like, all right, I'm going to hit this VW bug. So it gave me a target. Blah blah blah, didn't care how fat, you know whatever. And then you know how it is, dude, once you do it, it's like who's
the one, who's the rocker? That's uh, he's a scratch golfer, not Alice Cooper, he says. He says golf is the crack crack of sports. And I was like, dude, what is this? And it's true, It's so addictive regardless of how good you are. You just want to be better, you know what I mean. And and it's one of those things that's pretty healthy, especially for an actor that
has a little bit of downtime. You can just take five bucks or not even you can just take you know, old balls and practice a little bit on your own. You know, I loved it from the get go, but I love everything about it. You know, it's such a challenge. It's almost like it's almost like watching your your your like I'm a Bears fan, so like watching them win, or like you know, being mad, being being upset to being like happy and exhilarated. You know, I love it all. I love the whole time.
You talked about after my fellow Americans realizing what we were talking about before, right suddenly becoming educated enough to know that this is going to be harder than you first.
Think it's going to be.
I saw recently and you did do some things touched by an Angel Seventh Heaven Moesha. But I saw on your Instagram as I was stalking you, even though we know each other, I wanted to kind of go on there. And recently you posted a photo of you from crash in two thousand and four, and you wrote what started it All? Crash two thousand and four. In two thousand and four you get cast in not one but two Oscar winning movies, Million Dollar Baby and Crash. Why did
you write that? Why did how for you did Crash start it all?
Well? It was different, you know, the business was different back then that it is now. You know, like now you can jump from like you know, I just did something with John Krasinski, your fellow office member, and you know with Jack Ryan. Now you can do ten episodes of something that are like ten movies basically, and then jump into movies and it's not a problem. Back then, you could only do TV or movies because TV was
twenty two episodes, mainly procedurals or sitcoms. Right, it was a majority of the year, and maybe you can do one movie, but you would you couldn't even really be a movie guy because you need you didn't have two or three movies a year, and then sometimes they can backlog and you have four movies in a year. You know, So it was either or right, And I was gambling on a movie career just because of what I saw and what I what I fell in love with, you know, I when I once I started acting, I did the
same thing that I did in wrestling. Was I like, when I first started wrestling, I sucked. And then I started watching college and the Olympics, and I was like, whoa, dude, this is okay, this is the best. How do you How do I do that? I can do one of those moves right. And then, of course, just like any other actor, I started watching you know a lot of the guys from the Actors Studio and Robert de Niro,
Dustin Hoffman, al Pacino. Then I went back to Marlon Brando, James Dean and all those guys like in the sixties as well, and you know, I remember, but I remember specifically watching A street Car Name Desire And what's the other movie that's amazing that I've watched like a hundred million times on the waterfront on the waterfront, Yeah, and.
Well what movie have your million times? I don't know, but yeah, okay, I'm with you. Go ahead.
So anyway, so I'm like, I watched that movie, but it was it was A street Car Name Desire where I'm like, whoa, he's really doing something interesting, like and even if you can't be as good, you want to be. I wanted to get there, you know, so I I gambled on a movie career even though everything was stacked
up against me. And I don't know if you remember, but like back in the day, there was you know, breakdowns for movies and there was like you know, the star of the show blah blah blah, and it was Caucasian only the first like ten lines, and then you know, open to African Americans after that. So we were like maybe on the fifteenth is like open to other ethnicities and then so I would only audition for that. I was only allowed to. So I was like, I don't
know if it's ever going to work out. And I was, you know, I was in a band, so I was like, you know, maybe I'm just gonna do bit parts moving forward. You know, there are some Latin American people that did it, but they were mainly like the model looking people that you know, like they get to pass anyone who's a model or like ridiculously good looking person, they get a pass.
You know, I don't know what island they get them from, but they're like, you're good, we don't see any kind of color, right and so, but.
True Benjamin Bratt it doesn't matter.
Yeah, You're like he's fine. Yeah, Yeah, Benjamin Bratt, You're like, he clearly looks like a Latin guy, but he gets back. Jimmy Smith. Yeah, you're like, you're fine. Michael Penyin, You're like, yeah, put your shirt back on, you know. Right. So anyway, so I'm like, so then I'm like I get you know, it started like in two thousand where I'm like, I got a little part for you know, Steven Spielberg had this thing called a semperfi, which I got a little
pardon and I didn't do all that great. But then you know, I did Felicity, and I was so nervous because I never had a really good part. I was like, I couldn't even look at anybody in the e. I was just so nervous. Right, I didn't do that good of a job either. And then I auditioned for this like a year later, because we did it early. And then I think it took maybe two years for it to come out, and and and I knew that I
was just going to get more. I didn't know that it was gonna win the Oscar and all that stuff, but I was living in a shoe box I had no money, and you know what comes out. It comes out to really good reviews. And I was like, dude, this is so awesome. I'm like, you know, I called my manager and I was like, you know, is there any is there any shows that are interested now for me to get star in, you know, because you know, I just liked acting and you know, to get a
little change as well. Maybe we can get better TV shows. You know who knows. And that's when she's like, you know what, Oliver Stone wants to meet you. And I was like silent for thirty seconds, Michael, what does he want? Does he have a TV show? And he's like, no, he's got a movie. And it was World Trade Center with Nicholas Cage and I met him and I was just amazed. I was like, whoa dude, this is headspin.
So I was literally like on like just a natural high for a year, thinking like number one, I can't believe that it happened to me, Like I'm just I'm just I'm just me, and so like, you know, I got thrown in and there's maybe it's just the way the perspective of you know, me being in two Oscar winning movies. Back to back. I had a small part in one, I had a good part in the other People just look at you differently regardless of what you do,
and so it was nice. You know, I've been riding that way for twenty years almost twenty years now, you know, but the decade before that was not that not that easy. So that's why I really really appreciated, appreciate everything.
Actually, Daniel, who you played in Crash, you described it before as your as your first real part for you as you're reading through the script, is it, are you like, this is this is me?
This is no no, I'm you know what. You know. I was at Innovative Artists back then, and there's some of these agencies that have a lot of people that are just like you, and so like when at the audition, like you saw like me and then like twenty other guys from my agency and stuff. But there was one agent who was really good and she left. She's a big agency now. Her name is Louise Ward. And she's like, Michael,
this is a special script. And I was like what And so I remember and she's like there might be a part in there for you. I think you can change yourself into that. And then I read it and I you know, you're crying, you're thinking, you're you're so affected emotionally, and you're like, this is exactly the kind of stuff that I want to be in. And I auditioned for it the first time and they're like, it was good. It was good, but it's a little on the surface. And I was lucky enough that my brother
had just had his first kid. And my brother is a really good looking guy, charismatic dude, you know, always like you know, one of those Latin dudes that was like always to the nines is like if you saw him, you think automatically. He has an accent, you know what
I mean. And you know, the guy with the shirt open with the chains, he was that guy, right, and you know, and and he had swag, and I was like, and then when I remember when I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna do some research, you know, he opens the door, his hair's a mess, he's got his baby. He's looking at it for thirty seconds, like just NonStop. It doesn't seem like she's moving much. And he's like, Mike, do
you see that? That's amazing, bro? And I was like, Oh, that's the part that's it where you're you're you're paying attention to the kid, where you don't even think about yourself anymore. And then so I reread it and I was like, oh, yes, yes, let's go. And you know, and that's I got a feeling. I got an in into the character and I was able to really connect with him in a way. And so like I shaved my head, I got a mustache, gold tea, worked out a little bit, and you know, they put tats on
me and stuff. And then for the audition, I was I was able to internalize it enough and and get the part. But this is I'm like, I just realized. I'm like, this is like some nerdy like actor. Shit. No, people were great. Some people are going to be driving you know forward thirty seconds thirty seconds.
No. I love that.
That makes so much sense too, that idea of a personal connection, having your brother, seeing your brother transform in a way to a new character, and you using that in this I find it fascinating.
Because it was parallel.
Thank you for exactly.
It was totally parallel. Like my brother was this guy, you know what I mean, living a single life, and all of a sudden he changed so much and I was like Oh wow, this guy Daniel. I'm sure he was in jail and then he changed so much because of his kid. So he's working just for his kid. So it made a lot of sense and I was able to run with it.
I gotta ask you about one of my favorite television shows. You mentioned getting the call from Oliver Stone, but I got to ask you about The Shield. First off, were you a fan of that show? Had you seen that show?
Okay, no, no, And it was it was weird because I think it was in two thousand and four and yeah, and I I was filming it and I only really had two scenes. I had, you know, a line here and a line there, and I don't know how you deal with it, but I was like, for me, it was nerve wrecking to be for everyone to have it like their dialogue, you know, the you know, there's cues here, and if you're talking about the dog falling and it's
like then where's the blood? You know, everything makes sense, and then all of a sudden you have to come in and there's like I got the glasses going on on the top shelf, that's going to be on the bottom shelf, and it's gonna be like just some random right shit, you know what I mean, And so like I'm like I was. I would always be like I got the dog from the They're like cut cut, you know, and I was always messing it up. There's so much
pressure with those one lines. And then Crab came out right before I think that like the second the last episode, and it started it started changing everything, you know what I mean, Like like I said, even like with the writers and like, hey, good job on that. It's like because that was like my only bone to chew on, you know what I mean. And before that I didn't really have any anything to chew on, like everything. It wasn't a three dimensional character. You were there serving the story,
which is awesome, and I'm still serving the story. But you know, that's when the perspective started changing a little bit, and even on set and there was and yeah that was again was like a that's when I felt that, you know, the tie turn a bit.
Yeah, you ride a wave here for a while. You know, we can't talk about every single project that you've ever done, but Babbel an amazing project. You end up doing, uh some television from one episodes to more east Bound and Down and my name is Zerl and The Good Doctor. And event eventually, in twenty thirteen another Oscar winning movie,
American Hustle, you get cast in. What was your experience, What was your experience during not just American Hustle, but during this time sort of riding that wave that you talked about of of Daniel on Crash and these other projects that that gave you some some some notoriety and and and you know, hopefully some power.
Yeah, so there was still a little bit of that, like I'm not we're not seeing any Latin people or you know, Latin Americans. Like It's it's funny because if you're a foreigner, you know, from from Spain or whatever, and then you're not not not the you know, bump people out, but like you know, or stand on any political platform. But like if you're like a light skinned person that's like from you know, another country, then it
was just easier. And I think, you know, I'm still having still struggling to get those big, you know, the meaningful roles and stuff. And then so I was working my way up, which I think I should, you know, because I don't know if I was ready for it, to be honest, And then so I kept plugging away with these smaller parts because Crash was a small part, right, but you know, a shooter and and and End of Watch. I was like, I kind of felt like more of
a co lead kind of thing. It was, you know, the silver lining is that you I still was able to keep working on my on my craft, and then I auditioned for a thing called End of Watch, right, so it kept on giving you, you know, confidence in what you were doing, because you know there's in movies you like, you do your work and blah blah blah. You write down everything that you were thinking and then you see it and you're like, I didn't pull it quite off. So it's like you have to wait just
to see how you did. And so I was finally ready to do something like End of Watch. And then I had a you know, audition with Jake Gillenhoe and it was cool, and the movie came out, and that's when I started getting more calls to and more offers to like either star or co star or you know, you know, have the It just changed my career, you know, because then Narcos Mexico came about, and you know, it's weird, but you I just try to just keep on improving, you know, and that's the name of the game as
opposed to I mean, I just want to improve and just get you know, do great with whatever parts that I have, like my great I don't know about anybody else, but I just try to do the best job that I possibly can. I still keep that going.
Yeah, you talk about Narcos Kiki. First off, congratulations and amazing performance. I think a really really interesting show as well. How was it I've talked to some people in the past about this for you. Was there any difference for you stepping into a real life agent whose story has already been told. Did that add any pressure for you? Did you feel like you needed to become him in some way or are you playing your own interpretation of who he was?
Yeah? So, like I you know, since I started, like I always wanted to there's a freedom in imitating people, you know what I mean. Like there's like like you can you can guess what your parents are going to say in a certain situation, and you're able to internalize
it from that. Right, So I'm like I'll basically catch all like the major things that these people had because I wasn't able to interview the guy I interviewed his wife, and I, you know, I saw some documentaries on him, and I had learned some of the pitfalls that could potentially you know, some of the traps that can happen when you're playing someone. You know, I was fortunate enough
to do when in World Trade Center. It was a character of Wilhelmeno, and it's a guy that really you know, that that exists, that's alive, and so you know, I stayed with him in his family for a while and I was like, Wow, this amazing optimism that this guy has. He just has it in spades, you know. So so like I definitely have to play that, you know, but that aspect of me, like what, you know, how do
I how do I tap into that? So basically instead of me trying to change myself, it's just highlight those things that are, you know, the same as him. And this guy had a chip on his shoulder, you know what I mean. He just he just didn't like anyone getting away with things that, you know, and taking advantage of people and having innocent people killed. He's like, I don't like that. I was like, I wish somebody would
do something about it. He's like even finally he's like, you know what, I'm going to do something about it. It's like if somebody, you know, like a little kid was getting beat up. You're like no, no, no, no, no,
no no no. You know, like that feeling is. I think anybody can relate to it, you know, And so I always like, if I'm able to relate to it, then other people are going to be able to relate to it, right, And I had kind of this sweeping idea that maybe you're not going to like them in the beginning, but you're going to respect them at the end, right, And especially the way that the you know, the the serials was drawn out, and so I don't necessarily know if if they were happy with my work or not,
you know, because I was going on a on a I kind of had like a broader idea of the you know, the the finished product and what would it should be. And even when we were doing press, you know, I didn't get a lot of attention. They're like, hey, how you doing, and you know, they wanted to focus on Diego, who was like the big star and stuff.
And then it was really cool, you know, like I think it was really well received and you know, like the critics were really nice about my performance, and yeah, uh and so that was that was kind of a surprise and it was really cool, but you know, but it was it was it was tough. I'm like, I, you know, whenever you're playing a real person like I, you know, it's just what's what's their main thing and
what the gist? You know, and then hopefully like if it serves the story and and and it's better than you know, I'll try to try to like that.
The same year at least that it comes out. You play another dea agent for Clint Eastwood in The Mule. Now, I got to ask you, it's fourteen years ish. I understand you film things that comes out. It's hard for me to know exactly what the years, but fourteen fifteen years apart, you get to work with Clint again. Talk to me a little bit about Well, first off, everybody, does you love working with Clint?
Oh? Yeah, it's amazing because the first the first time that I worked with them. You know, that also helped out, you know, because I was in you know, Millon Dollar Baby went first, even though we shot Crash first. Yeah, you know, it won the Oscar Verson and then crash one the following year because we finish it like in July or something, you know, put it out in December. There's no pressure. You don't feel pressure. That's why people are so good. And also when you have three takes,
you better come prepared. You're not gonna find anything, you know what I mean, So you come well prepared and that's all you get. You know, Like, and I remember screwing up some lines and he's like, did he say the main things? Okay? Good? And then he kept it in there because that's what how people are when they're you know, they're nervous and they're gonna download some information. He's like, they really feel uncomfortable, and he rather have that.
He he knows movie making on a whole other level. You know, there's other actor the directors that want to say everything perfectly and they'll keep going until they get something good. And that's that's cool too, but it's like, you know, don't wait until something happens, which is like could be exhausting, and it's like, you know, it's it's
another way of going. But as a performer, you're like, this person definitely doesn't know what he wants and they're like I don't know what I want, but I know when I'll see it. You know, it's can you know, but that's good too, you know. It's just another different way of working. But he's the opposite. He's more like jazz where he likes improvisation and just like let's go, let's go. And you know, I, you know, you doing comedy and I you know, I did a bit of
comedy here and there. I would always write alts and what I would want to say, and like, you know, when I'm rehearsing, I was like, you know, when you're listening and you're like I really want to say this, I'm like, maybe I'll just try that later. I would say, you know, do you mind if I try something different? What are you gonna try? Just a different line? Give it to me. I don't have to do it. I don't have to do it, you know. I think it doesn't matter, you know. Like like he's so quiet but
so intimidating. I'm like to try and he's like, well, no, we've stopped. Give it to me. What are you gonna say? And then I said it and he's like, right, the kid wants another turn, So he like gave me another turn. And then and then after a couple of takes, he's like that's when he was like, he's like, you got anything for this one? He's like, I do, I do. I got a couple of things. And then he kept a lot of it, you know. And then and but but I just wanted to work with Clint Eastwood again, man,
because he's like a living legend. And it was like, I have a list of directors that I want to work with, man that I those are those are the artists, you know what I mean, Like, those are the real storytellers, and you're just trying to get in there and and help, you know, tell the story. Like I just saw West Amerson Asteroid City yesterday and I was like, man, Wow, this guy can go, this guy can go. Yeah.
You are you proud of being a Marvel character?
Of course, dude, Like why yeah, no, I mean that's a big deal. This is a big deal. There's there's a limit the number of you guys. I'm not one.
No, But here's the thing. Here's here's the weird thing. Like I did two movies and then they went off to another galaxy, which I totally understand. Dude. Some of the guys that like, a aren't in it. They've done like fifteen you know what I mean, So like they they might have been burned out or whatever. Like me, I'm like, dude, this is great, you know what I mean? Two and then two and I'm like and I was like, dude, this is awesome.
You and Paul Rudd work so well together. Was that natural? Do you Was that natural between the two of you or did this take a lot of work and cultivation?
Do you hate him in real life?
No? No, he's the best, dude. It's you know what's crazy.
By the way, I knew you were going to say that. That's why I teed it up.
I know, by the way, I know, but well, who doesn't like Paul Rudd? Everybody likes Paul Rudd. But I'm waiting for that one day to be like I hated that guy and they really mean it. Yeah, But by the way, most of most of the time, they won't say that to somebody who's who doesn't have a good reputation. Dude, working with him was almost working with like Jake Jillenhall. Like Jake Jillenhall. It was so weird, man, But he was like I think the reason that like he makes
good movies and saw does. Paul Rudd is like he wants his surrounding cast to be awesome. They're they're secure. They're like, you know, I remember Jake telling me. He's like, dude, I'm gonna be good. I got my own stuff. It's like, I remember we did a take and of something and then he's like, cut print and they're like wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait wait, Mike. Remember that thing that we did when we were all, you know, because we rehearsed black, when you did that thing and blah blah blah this and that. I was like, oh yeah, and he's like, do that and then we did it and then it was you know, it was you know, it was something that was better than what we did. And those guys want to see you win. You know, they're not everybody's like that, to
be honest with you, like, not everyone. Sure, you know, there's some people get insecure about, like, you know, you doing something that's cool or whatever, and and but these guys really, you know, they encourage you to to just really you know, be the best that you can be.
Correl is the same way, is.
He really Yeah, that's why everybody shined.
I think there's a I think there's like, uh, there's an unspoken competition in Hollywood, at least from comedy perspective, like who is the nicer best person.
To work with Correll Will Ferrell or it's you.
Know what they call all three should do a movie together, All three should do better movie together? And they going the Canadians, you know what I mean? Like who can be the absolute nicest?
Who could be the nice You.
Could toss Seth Rogan in there.
Too, Okay, I don't know Seth so well.
Dude, he's so nice, dude, he was such a nice guy, and he's so funny, and he's like, you know, because when you're when you're nervous and you're doing something I did observing report with him and and it's a little funny, he'll give you a little laugh and it's really funny. Then he'll give you a bigger laugh, you know, and he eggs you on like he's you know, it was. It was fun working with him as well.
Uh, speaking of co workers, Yeah, John Krasinski my old palell for a decade, and you the new show Jack Ryan just out, Uh it's not the Dea this time, it's the c I A x C, I A operative. Domingo Chavez tell me an embarrassing story about John.
So you know, we all got sick in Croatia.
Okay, uh you know what I'm saying, dude, Yeah, yeah, it was clear.
There is nothing like seeing an action movie. Huh uh, you know with a little bit of stomach issue. I don't know what, you know what where he did it, but like he had a bug and then I had a bug, and they were like, oh Croatia did as
dirty man. Everybody got sick, buddy, everybody got sick and it was But you know what, I get that way every time I shoot a movie in Mexico too, where you're like, I got a break, I got a break, keep a port a party really close, you know, and then shooting takes a hit because you have to take it rhymes.
Yeah, I got it, Yeah, I got it. It's clever. I didn't get sick.
You know that I shot a movie in Mexico. I Uh. You know what I was told, which I wouldn't have thought of unless someone told me, is fruit and salads avoid.
Yeah see, I didn't know.
You don't eat you.
Don't eat the fruit or the salads because it's been washed.
But here's the thing. I'm from Chicago, like, and I lived in a Mexican neighborhood and we crushed cucumbers, you know, on the side of the road where they would cut them and then then fin them up, and then lime and salt with hot sauce like but it was the powder hot sauce and you'd burn your mouth off and it was the best. And then after that, like you know, after you finish some tacosnitas like everything, like then you all of a sudden you crush some mango with banana
and taquin and you know. And so I was just doing that and then oh my gosh, dude, I was like, dude. I remember like the first week having to run like in slow motion all the time, and I was like, get away, like like I was throwing the damn grenade, you know what I mean. And then and I was like, don't judge me, Please, don't judge me. Got a machine gun and just destroyed them, like you know what I mean. And it was dude, And it was like two weeks
and I was like, and I just done something. And it happened when I was doing Narcos too, and it was Oh my gosh, it was brutal. It was so brutal and whatever. We're just not used to it. There's a certain bacteria and fruit because it comes from you know, it's mainly water. It's Mexican water that comes to fruit and vegetables. And I was crushing that and I shouldn't
have been. And finally I had it for most of the shoot that I just for a movie that I just did, but I had you know, it was like one week in Croatia, which wasn't too bad, but it was during COVID, so I got COVID twice as well.
Oh that's fantastic.
What was it like joining uh, joining the Jack Ryan Empire there with John Do you guys have a good time?
Dude? I did. I mean, he's a riot, he's a riot, but when you join it. This was crazy because when I did Narcos, it was like an offshoot, right, it was a spinoff sort of of you know, Narcos, and it was me and Diego Luna and we were starting off this new thing, right, which was it was cool. It was you know, it was something new, so you know, yeah, we were we weren't taking it over per se. It
was just another story here. It was completely different. I've never been in that situation where these guys are on their fourth season, all these guys that work together for four years and you know, Mike him and Mike Kelly are like best friends and you know, windows there and like everybody has like a shorthand and you're just like they have inside jokes and you're laughing from the outside because it is kind of funny, but it's.
Not as funny.
So they're they're going straight guttural and you're like, you know, and it feels like you're in high school, you know what I mean, and you just you know, they invited you over to the to the lunch table, but like you don't really know all their inside jokes. So that's how it feels, right and uh. And then but by the end, like that's when you know, we all became really friendly and stuff and it was great and you know, but you like it started to get great right when
you knew that. It was like, oh, okay, cool, this is the fourth season. It's going to end. There's going to be no more glad I was here.
Yeah, uh, I feel like you told me am I right about this, like two years ago you were talking about this has been a long time coming, right, or at least the discussions and the shooting of this.
Yeah, dude, I think I mean, I want.
To say it was like two to three years ago that you were like, yeah, yeah, bro, I think John, John, I think I may be working with your pal John. This has been going a long time, dude.
But apparently, like the Clancy a state has like five different parties with five different sets of lawyers. To do anything, like you got to go through them, Like I think, I think we're waiting on the okay for my character to be in the show or something like that. Like, so there's there's a lot, you know, there's there. I think there's a lot of politics and stuff or or you know, rights, or it's got to go through five parties and everyone's got to be happy. I think maybe
that's what happened. Like I'm not sure, but I do remember getting a strong phone call from Krazinski, who when you get on the phone with him, you're like, Oh, this guy's a door he's a go getter, you know what I mean. So I was really like, hey, buddy, is this happening? You know what's going on? Ye who knows it might or might not be speculating.
Huge mega hit Jack Ryan, check it out final season, fourth season. Dude, You're awesome. Congratulations on all of your success. I cannot wait to see you next week and uh and I could watch you forever.
I'm a big fan, so.
Thank you for all those years, man like you made us laugh so much. Bro.
Oh, thank you, Mike, thank you for stopping by. Great chatting with you, and I cannot wait to check out this new season of Jack Ryan. Say hi to John for me, to everyone out there listening, thank you as always for stopping by. We're going to be back next week to delight your eardrums with another fantastic guest. And uh, well and with me until then, have a wonderful week and uh and we'll see you soon. Off the Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside
our executive producer Ling Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Thomas Olsen. Theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by the one and only Creed Bretton,