For me, I've been able. I mean yeah, I've just been able to not look like the people that I play on screen. And so I've lived this life where I've tried it one time where I've walked into a restaurant and go, yeah, we can't seet you. Hey, do you know who I am? And they're like nope, And I'm like, yep, that worked well, because yeah, why would you know who I am? I don't look like you really, I am Mark Baul Gostler, and I am completely off the beat. They like that, don't you. Brian? You like that?
Welcome back, everybody. You right now are exactly where you should be. You're here listening to Off the Beat with me, your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today I have with me a truly fantastic actor who also happens to be my friend and my neighbor, Mark Paul Gossler. You all, most definitely if you are between the ages of eighteen and fifty eight, know him as the teen heartthrob Zach Morris from Saved
by the Bell. Yes, the very guy whose picture was probably ripped out of an issue of Tiger Beat magazine and taped to your bedroom wall or your sisters, or your girlfriends or boyfriends, at least if you're of a certain age. My producer, Emily actually, and this is true, squealed when she heard that he was coming on the show. He's got that kind of effect on people, even thirty years later. But to be clear, Emily has never squealed
because I was going to be on the show. Since he left the Halls of Bayside High Mark Paul, he's worked on a really wide range of projects. Detective John Clark on one of my favorite shows which I can't wait for you to hear about today, NYPD Blue, Peter
Bash in the legal comedy Franklin and Bash. He's done political dramas like Commander in Chief, The Captain of the Padres, un pitched Stay at Home Dad on Kenya Barris' comedy Mixed Dish, and most recently and currently, he is exploring some downright creepy stuff as a deranged kidnapper on NBC's Found He is fantastic and it has just been given a season two. He's been in the business since he was five years old and he's still finding ways to
challenge himself and show his versatility. I admire him so much. He may be Zach Morris and Emily's heart, but guys, he's a lot of other things too. And another thing he is is a great podcast guest. I know you're gonna love hearing from the talented, the handsome, the neighborly Mark, Paul Gossler.
Bubblin Squeak, I love it, Bubble and Squeig, Bubble and Squeaker cook get every month lift over from the night before.
What's up, neighbor?
Hey, what's going on?
How are you?
I'm doing all right? I mean are you? Are you actually? Are we in the same airspace.
Or were we are in the same airspace? Yes? If if a helicopter passes above you, you will hear it ten seconds later.
For me, if something were to go wrong in our area, two national treasures would go down, what would what would America? What would the world do? What?
It would be very very sad. I think you're a national treasure. I'm I don't know what I am, but I don't know about that. How are you liking it down here?
You know? I I I can't put it into words, which is not great for a podcast, But we feel so fortunate that we are here. I am born and raised in Los Angeles. I love California. There's a lot of you know, there's a lot of negatives we could point at California, but there's also a lot of positives. And I think where we are down south here it just embodies all the positives. Beautiful air, less people, more space.
My kids surfed during the week, you know, it's not a you know, going to the beach when you were in Los Angeles took pretty much the entire day. I sometimes go, you know, after drop off of dropping our kids off at school, I go do a session real quick. I'm back by ten thirty. It's amazing have the rest of the day to do other things which would take a full day in Los Angeles. It just you realize once you're out of there, out of the it's a city. You know, we we forget that that Los Angeles because
it's so so suburban and it's so vast. You forget you're actually in a city. It's why it feels that way, It's why there's so many people.
Yeah, you told me a story when I first saw you down here, which I was shocked about. But I do want you to tell it here because I think it's it's very very interesting. You and I were at a fan convention together a number of years ago, and as I'll set it up and and and you take it from there my recollections. We arrived at the airport and you were like, are you on you know, my flight back back to.
LA And I, oh, the connection. That that's why the connection. It was the connection. We had to make a connection, I believe in Dallas and okay, all like there were there were a few other people with us, and we all went to the gate for La X. You went somewhere else and I was like, wait, you not come with us, so go ahead? Is that is that the story? Yeah?
Yeah, And I said, no, I'm going to San Diego. I've moved down south. I don't live exactly in San Diego, but you know, we lived down here. It's easy to fly in San Diego. And I said it was the best decision I ever made. Yeah, And you referenced this story when we ran into each other and I had heard rumors that you lived down here, but we hadn't seen each other yet.
Well, because you told me the exact spot you were in and I said, oh, yes, I'm familiar with that. I've stayed in that area. There's a there's a beautiful hotel in this area, and I've stayed at that hotel, and that was you know, I worked here in San Diego in twenty sixteen. I was on a show called Pitch. We were the San Diego Padres. So we did a lot of work at Petco Park, which is a phenomenal park to watch a baseball game, concert venues like it is state of the art, right, So you go there.
You could just go there for the food and drink. It's just a great place. Getting in and out is easy. It's just an easier lifestyle. And so in twenty sixteen, my wife and I we rented a house while we were filming and love the area. My two older children from a previous marriage were too young for us to move.
We wanted to keep them in the schools that they were in in La But I fell in love with our particular area a few years after that and said, you know, so when I saw you, you said you were going there, and I'm like, one of these days, Brian, I'm going to be your neighbor. And so sure enough last year when when I saw you, you know, we made it work. And yeah, again, We just feel so fortunate that we were able to make it work. My children. My son graduated and he's now in college. My daughter
is going to graduate her senior year this year. But our two younger ones are ten and eight year old, go to school out here, and yeah, they're they're thriving, and the sports programs out here are amazing. You know what, we really shouldn't talk about San Diego because I don't want people moving down here.
It's awful. It really looks out the window right now. It's tear it's raining and cold.
Yeah, so many people out here, there's there's too many. It's it's traffic. You can't get anywhere. The food sucks. That's another thing. It's so funny. It's like in La. When I tell people I move, they're like, yeah, but how's the food? And actually I've eaten some really great restaurants, more so here than I do in La, because in La it was just such a chore to get to the restaurants that you would have to have. You know, if you went to Craig's, right, you got to know Craig to get in.
It's but you do have to know Craig, that's right.
And here. It's like you go to these great restaurants and you just call and they're like, oh yeah, we can totally get you in. You're like wait, really, like I don't I don't need an hour in an hour in an hour. It's just again though, you don't want to come down to San Diego, SA.
No, it's terrible. Well, you've had to spend a little time away working on your new project. I want to talk about that and a little bit. But I do want to go back and hopefully share with some people some things that they don't know about you. Now. You you mentioned you're born and raised in l way Ye to a Dutch Indonesian family, so you have three cultures going on in your household as a child, right, Yeah.
I was the only one out of my out of the four of us my siblings, I have three siblings that was born in the States. I came. I came way later. My mother was thirty five when she had me, which back then, you know, I was born in the seventies. Was like, oh boy, right, he's going to come out with a horn on his head, which is fine. They just shaved down, you know, you can't tell they put makeup over it. They can't tell you, but I was definitely an oops baby. We had that culture. My mom
is all Indonesia and my father is Dutch. He actually I was talking to Stephanie Seymour yesterday as Stephanie Seymour Jane Seymour. Sorry, my apologies, Jane Seymour. And I'm currently doing the rounds for my show. Because of the strike, we weren't able to do press for my show, so as seven or eight episodes in now we're doing press. And anyway, she was at a talk show that I was going to do and she's Dutch as well, like her mother is Dutch. Her father, I believe, is British.
The connection that we have is that my father his family did a lot of work in Indonesia. My father and his whole family were taken into internment camps during World War Two and kept in Indonesian Japanese internment camps in Indonesia. Jane Seymour's mother was in what was in the same camps that my father was, and we were just talking about it because my father passed away a few years ago and we never talked about his experience. It was just one of those things like you just
never brought up. It was my father was in it from nine till I believe he was twelve. He was in the boys camp. Jane had told me, she's like, your father was actually in a boys camp and when they turned twelve, they aged out and they went into the men's camp. Can you believe, like twelve year old boys going into a men's camp where the women were kept together. So the mothers and the daughters were all
kept in the same camps. The fathers were obviously in the men's but we never talked about it, and her mother logged through sketches her experience, but we had that connection. So my father, being Dutch, was in Indonesia. My mother during that time, I believe they moved to Holland, and then my father mother connected in Holland, actually not in Indonesia, and then in the late sixties he's moved to California.
They moved to the valley San Fernando Valley. I don't know why some people actually I actually have Indonesian family, a Dutch Indonesian family that came on that same trip on the same boat basically, and they resided here in San Diego and Poway, and my family went to San Fernando Valley and there's a little pocket there that we were Dutch indows.
Huh. Your mom also worked for an airlines. So during this time were you traveling a lot? Were you seeing the world.
Yeah, no, we would go quite a bit. She worked for KALM, which is the Dutch airlines. She was a lounge attendant, so she ran the lounge for KALM, and I believe, I mean, we would go even before she became a lounge attendant. We would always spend summers and chriss during that time. So I spent a lot of my time in Holland. I believe Dutch was my first language growing up. Really, Yeah, because we that's all we spoke in the house and my you spoke Dutch, just Dutch. Yeah,
there's always our secret language. You know, there's not a lot of duchies out there. And uh, you could talk. You can talk shit about somebody in the in the grocery line until they turned around and then and they looked at you and they were Dutch too.
They were touched too. You started performing at the age of five, Yeah, probably. What are you doing at five? Are you doing commercials? Yeah?
Modeling, Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, my mother had a friend who was a print model. You know, back back in those days you do with them for Seers or may Company or Mervins, and it's that typical story of of somebody going to your kid's cute.
And that's a typical story. But only in Los Angeles anywhere else well or.
No, But I think that happens everywhere, right, because I mean, if you're in the if you're in the you know they call them fly over states. I mean, you have a cute kid, you start doing local trend work, right, you just go, Oh, your kid's cute. They should be in front of the camera. And then people tell you that, and then as a kid, you're like, yeah, I want to be in front of a camera, you see. I mean at that time, I think my Annie had come out and I'm like, wow, there's a there's a kid
on the screen. That's pretty cool. Eight is enough. I think it was around my time. Yeah, happy days, you know, so you're seeing all these things. It just happened that way where you should I'll introduce you to my agent, you should do print work. It just turned into you know, like an after school kind of fun thing, like we do with our kids, with soccer, baseball, and then I just kept progressing.
Do you remember the first time you're in front of the camera.
I don't know. I have I have really bad memories. Uh sorry, not bad memories. I have a bad grasp of my memory of that time. I was very much into sports and motocross and probably hit my head one too many times. It is, there's a there's a lot of moments of my life that I've that are just not there. But I have little little things come up, like print work, you know, the flashes you know from from that and standing there and doing different poses, and
you know, people telling you what to do. Commercials. That was the next progression, was going from print to commercials, and I remember being on set for some of those. I remember one that I that I got hired to do and then I got fired. When I got there, my consolation prize was just it was for Whammo. So I got a big box of Whammo toys. Uh, that was my consolation. Also, the guy who basically replaced me was Paul Walker, and wow, yeah, Paul, Paul and I
would Paul and I would again. During that time, you know, I grew up with Alfonso Roberto, I grew up with Paul Walker. I grew up with later on. You know, you would see like Toby Maguire, Leonardo DiCaprio and stuff like that. They were a little bit younger than me, but there was always a group of us that would see each other for every audition. You know. It was
kind of like that your baseball team. You were just like, hey, guys, you know, and you'd you'd compete against them, and I'd say Paul would always beat me because he was like the quintessential sort of California kid, you know, the hair, the blonde hair and the blue eyes, and he was he was just he was Paul Walker.
Right right. I It's always fascinating to me because you know, my journey in was so different for me. It was about theater. It was sort of an activity that that, but that that professional side of it for me truly. I mean this wasn't in my consciousness till after college and what I wanted to be was an actor. But that business side, that working with professionals, that rejection, that getting hot, you know, getting a box of toys like
that wasn't a part of it for me. I mean, sure, I would audition for a role and maybe I wouldn't get the role I wanted or whatever. But you know, it wasn't about money first off, and it wasn't about a business. It wasn't about a business. And so I'm always fascinated to talk to people who, like you, started way earlier, like on the business side. Now, was there a moment you talk about it being just like our kids playing soccer or whatever else. You're making money, but
it's an activity. It's something you're doing and you're seeing friends, or you're working with people and meeting other kids or whatever. Is there a moment for you where you go, this is what I want to do.
That came way later. That came probably after Saved by the Bell actually way later. For me. It was never about the money. I was having fun. There were times, I mean my mom pushed me. I'm not you know, I think she. I have to push my son to play baseball sometimes, and he loves baseball. That's what he wants to be. He wants to be a baseball player. Yet I still have to tell him, you know, we got to go to practice and he's like, oh, I want you know, he wants to hang out with his
friends or play Xbox whatever. So you know, my mom had to push me at times. There was a lot of I'd say the biggest negative through that initial process before saved by the Bell and I think I got saved by the bell and I was twelve, Miss Bliss, and then it went on. The biggest negative was the rejection. Right, so you talk about going in for auditions, and for people who aren't in the business, going in for an
audition is a job interview. You go in, you sell yourself, you show your resume, you show what you can do, you tell them why you're the right person for this job, and you don't I'd say ninety percent of the time, even more, you don't get the job. And as a child, that was the biggest negative, you know, trying to explain to your kid, they don't like the way you look, You shit the bed on your dialogue, you were terrible,
you're a bad actor. There's a whole plethora of things like why you know, and some of it are completely out of your control. They just they just went a different direction. Trying to process that as a child is probably that was the biggest negative and probably the biggest hurdle to get over because it's just not easy. You know, it's competitive. I took it as exactly what I said was I was going in to compete against my peers,
and I wanted to win this job. So that first time that I was replaced by Paul Walker, that really hurt. I mean trying to understand you were replaced, you got the job, and then another kid comes in and takes your place. I could not process that. And I'm a very competitive person. It's the reason you and I don't play golf together is because I don't want to play bad poorly. I can't do things just for the sake
of doing things like I have to. I have to be good at something otherwise I just I'll do it. But I'm doing it by myself and no one's watching. There's a there's a masturbation, Joe. Yeah, yeah, I said. But the thing with you know, I didn't take it
as a business. I understood the importance of what we did as as as a child like I remember walking on to the stage of Save by the Bell and one of our directors, Don Barnhart, who directed the majority of them, said, the minute you open this door and walk on this stage, you are no longer a twelve year old. You are an adult. This is a business. You have to treat it like one. I was fully aware of that. I didn't need to have that conversation, and I think he was just you know, reiterating that
and just making sure that I understood it. But I knew the importance of the business, never under did the money aspect of it, which you know, I mean, looking back in hindsight, that's something I wish I'd probably taken more interest in. But we had nice things. We had a you know, nice cars, and we lived in a nice area. We were very middle class. And yeah, I'm sure what I did for a living sort of paid for some of that stuff. It just happens, right, I mean,
you see these stories. I was part of that story. It's just I think because I didn't want and also I was doing it just because I liked it and not because I wanted to be famous, and not because I had some goal. It wasn't until after Saved by the Bell that I said, oh, I guess this is my career, that this is what I should be doing, and I'm in a position to continue and making a lot of money, might as well keep going.
You just mentioned you made some bad deals. You've said it before on that show and despite all of its success and it making you America's sweetheart, like for the entirety of your life, you don't see a ton of residuals from that franchise. Does your experience specifically, And we don't have to go too deep onto this, but did this color your take on this recent strike?
Uh? No, there were other things about the recent strike that I was more concerned with. Ai, I mean, that's that's a big one. Yeah, the wages and also just relocation fee is a big thing for me. We currently film our show in Atlanta, and the way they get around you know, these incentives and local hires is it's a joke. It's a joke. So there were other things. But for me, the merchandise was was just poorly handled
by my representation At the time. There just wasn't any precedent for a Saturday morning show with with you know, live live audience and no one. We never thought the show was going to be the success it is today. It was a small success. Back then. There was there was no metrics that we could rely on like social media now right that you could say, oh boy, there's a whole audience out there that that follows us. The only way we would ever gauge how successful things were
going is if we did a mall tour. We go to Mall of America and there'd be a line of two thousand people waiting to get your autograph. It's it's no different than these fan fests.
That we do right, right, right, and you're going, Wow.
People actually are watching, are watching? This is insane.
You and I are about the same age. I didn't I didn't. I didn't do a check. But we're we're close. I think you're probably ten years older, but.
I'm actually going to turn fifty next year.
Brian, congratulations, welcome to the club. A lot of people don't know. You mentioned it briefly. Saved by the Bell started as well in a way Good Morning Miss Bliss. You played Zach Morris. It lasted one season, and you know, I had several actually long conversations both on the podcast and not with Kevin Riley, who was our savior at NBC once he became chairman and kept the office on
the air. He was at least a big part of the decision to change up Good Morning, Miss Bliss launch it into reimagine it and launch it into this new show, Saved by the Bell playing on Saturday mornings in front of a live audience. Were no cartoon owns anymore, and to try to hit this tweener audience that had sort of you know, or the idea being, we've graduated from Tom and Jerry and Sylvester the Cat whatever it is, and now we're going to watch something that's more about
kids our age. So, first off, do you remember auditioning. You're auditioning for a ton of shows at this time. You've done shows like The Twilight Zone and Wonder Years, a Punky Brewster and blah blah blah. Do you remember the audition for Good Morning, Miss Bliss.
Yeah. I actually had spent this summer at a Marine Military academy camp in Harlingen, Texas. I wanted to go to high school. I wanted to be a Marine. I wanted to be a Marine to play football. So I went to this camp to go through the initiation process of being accepted to this school in South Texas. I came back my hair was buzzed, for the lack of a better turn. The boot camp to get into this thing, and I started growing out. My mom put in highlights,
blonde highlights and stuff like that. So there's the the sort of over the top blondish hair go in for the audition. I don't remember my process, but I do remember going in and seeing Dustin Diamond really, you know, reading the script and knowing what screech he was seeing Dustin Diamond, and I just went, Yep, that's the kid that he's going to get this. He's not going out for Zach Morris, so I'm good there. Yeah, but I
do remember seeing him. I don't remember much about Say By the I mean Miss Bliss, other than Hayley Mills was very nice and Dennis Haskins and the rest of the cast. I do remember where I was and where I read the script for say by the Bell. So again we do Miss Bliss and it moves on, and then you know, we get a call from Peter Ingle, who was the creator said by the Bell and basically says I'm going to spin it off and wanted me
to read the script. I lived in this three bedroom house actually was like a two bedroom, but my bedroom was sort of this open area that we had, like one of those partitions that blocked it off. So there wasn't like a quiet area for me to read it. So I went into the bathroom, the powder room, and I read the Save by the Bell script in the powder room and I remember reading it and it opens up with Zach Morris and he's talking to the camera and I just I was, wow, this is a mate.
I'm Ferris Bueller. I get to do what Ferris Bueller did. And that's all I can remember was this is exactly like I. That was my favorite movie growing up, right. I was like, I just and the character Ferris and his friend and Sloan and oh, I'm like, this is I get to do this? And between Miss Bliss, I think and Saved by the Bell, I had just done a film with Alan Arkin. His wife had written a
book he I believe. I don't know sure if Alan directed or if she directed it, but anyway, it was a family movie and we shot it and I lived with Alan for about a month while we were shooting it, and I became really good friends with Alan Arkin, and he was a mentor. And I read the script and I called Alan next day and I said, Alan, I'm I've just been offered to do this sitcom and he is don't do it. And I was like, wait, wait,
you don't understand. It's it's a sitcom. I get to play this Character's like, don't, don't, don't, don't do a sitcom. You're you're you're gonna do film. You're gonna be fine. Just trust me. You just want to stay on this path that you're going You did, you did that, Keep doing film. You're gonna be You're gonna be fine. And I obviously didn't listen to him. I I didn't understand what he was talking about. I didn't know that you had to make a choice right right, But back then
there was a definitive line. You either were television actor or you were a film actor. You definitely didn't do commercials. You didn't do you didn't sing. You could do Broadway, you could do theater, but you did not cross the lines in television and film. Which now you know, it's great, it's amazing for creative people like us because we can do everything right. But then I understand what Alan was saying was like, you're going to not typecat, but you're
going to pigeonhole yourself pigeonhole. Yeah, but that that was the thing with to say by the bell was it was is that is so crazy?
You're fifteen?
Uh?
Did you feel prepared for a lead role like it? Were you nervous at all? Or were you just like I'm freaking Ferris Bueller now let's go.
No. I mean that character was how I perceived the people in my school, like the popular people in my school, like they they had this swagger they had. It was everything I wasn't. I was a very quiet kid. I I think if you asked people in my school that I went to up in Valencia, California, you know who I was. They probably didn't even know I went there. I wasn't a jock, although I wanted to be a jock. I wasn't, you know, one of the sort of art artsy kids, and wasn't a slacker. I kind of just
went around. I just I had. I didn't have a lot of friends and and sort of sort of was in the shadows a lot because also I was working, and so if I worked, I was just away for a little bit. But Zach Morris was just I just really enjoyed playing him because he was everything I wanted to be. Right. I had the cool clothes, he had the shoes, he had the phone, he had the girls, and it just was it wasn't me at all. Like I didn't like being in front of a camera all
that much. I didn't like rehearsing. I you know, I had bad skin at the time, and so I was conscious of that. And uh, you know it's like Zach was, Yeah everything I want to I wanted to be at that at that moment.
How much school did you go to once that launched? And did you feel a change? Nothing?
Yeah? No, I mean, you know, you go to set school. I mean we had a great teacher's name was Sydney Sharon. He's passed. He was amazing. He was he was a great educator. The problem was is that I you know, I look at my kids too, and it's like school. You know, if I can, if I could be playing sports and do other things, sure, school. So I manipulated a system. I mean, when you do homeschooling, you know, it's a it's a lot of worksheets and things like that.
And I would I would find the codes for the worksheets and just put them in and manipulate my scores or whatever. I mean, yeah, we for anybody ELSEO that doesn't know the process. You need fifteen hours of school per week, and what happens is you start banking time. So for us, we would film on a Friday, and so Monday through Thursday was probably our biggest amounts of school. You would maybe do four hours on Monday and then four on Tuesday, and then three and then two and
then one on Friday. So you just needed to do one hour a day was the minimum, but you could bank more hours during during the week to total fifteen because Fridays were our biggest day.
Yeah, of course, because you weren't going to school. Once this goes, you're not feeling yet. Like I did that.
I went to I did go to sort of a what what they call it a vocational school. I mean it's basically a school for either your I mean, you just don't have the capacity to go to school, so you go to this sort of you know, it was it was in these bungalows off to the side of the school, or you were a working kid because of some reason, like your parent is a stay at home for some reason. But I would go there. I had normal friends, I you know, I hung out with the
neighborhood guys, and no one seemed to care. It's it's really weird, Like I don't have this thing of oh, walking into a room and everyone going, hey, that's a guy on it just I yeah, it didn't. I never had that. So I walked around for you know, my childhood is is just feeling like, oh, I have a job and I come back and I'm just the guy that lives on that street and you know, goes to school there. And it was no different.
That's fascinating. Unless you went to a mall, unless you went to a signing, unless it was like here's Zach Morris's correct.
A specific event that I would go to. Then it was oh, you know, but other than that, because again I didn't have blonde hair when I wasn't sure, when I wasn't working.
Yeah, it's funny, you know, like this experiment that happens. I mean, I mean it's so genius in a way, right, Like how do we keep people watching the network? Well, they're aging out of these shows. Let's find something else. And I think for people of my hour, a little bit younger, a little bit older, like which of course is totally different. Now it's YouTube and YouTube kids and stream whatever show they want to stream. But at that time you had grown up with, before soccer, before baseball.
Whatever happens, Mom and dad are sleeping off a bender or whatever, and you're gonna get up and watch Saturday Morning cartoons and everybody is watching exactly the same thing at exactly the same time. And suddenly here are people, meaning you, who are our age that we're now seeing on TV. Sort of this, I mean, I didn't even want to This is such a weird parallel. But it is like the office, like in a way where you're like seeing an experience that you have that you can
connect with on some level. Right, you work in an office or you go to school, and you see this dynamic, you feel the relationship dynamic, the love dynamics, the friend dynamics. Here's a model, here's a I can't think of the word of, Like this is the popular guy, and here's the but everybody's friends and everybody gets along, like there's nobody who doesn't know that show from that that grew up in that timeframe. Right, do you feel that? Do
you experience you? Obviously you do. It's a stupid question. You must feel that.
I Mom, you talk about a person that didn't grow up. My wife My wife never watched the show. No, she didn't. No, never watch the show. Yeah, as she grew up in England until she was twelve and then moved to Montreal and she made a way down here. But even while she was twelve and in Canada, she didn't watch the show.
Interesting.
Yeah, it's it's interesting though, Brian, because I look back on my career and I've been very fortunate to play characters I changed.
I love that.
It's it's weird you wouldn't think of me. And I don't consider myself a character actor, but I've played characters. I I played Zach. Zach was a character. I mean I dyed my hair for that every every week. Once I finished that, I didn't work for three years. I didn't work. We were about two years and it was for another NBC movie the Week, remember those things in
those movie of the Weeks, and auditioned for it. It was with Candace Cameron Burret and my hair was was it's natural color and people were like, hey, where's the blond hair. And then shortly after that, I did some other things for Dick Wolf, and then I did NYPD Blue and with with with the way I looked in that and then you know, I've always been able even
on television, which does not push in the direction for characters. Right, Like when they when they hire Brian Baumbaguner, there's a specific they want Brian bar mcguner to play this role because they have this vision of you playing this role. For me, I've been able. I mean, yeah, I've just been able to to not look like the people that I play on screen. And so I've lived this life where I've tried it one time when I've walked into the restaurant and go, yeah, we can't see you. Hey,
do you know who I am? And they're like nope. I'm like, yep, that that worked well, because yeah, why would you know who I am? I don't look like you. Yeah, yeah, that I have.
I have an advantage there, you do, like exactly advantage there? Yeah, for sure, I love this conversation and that we're having it because see, I am a character actor, right, and whether it's you know, I mean people have said it's weird to talk about yourself and the third person, but like you're so unlike this character that everybody knows you as, right, and I play the bad guy or I played that this right, But you are. You're exactly right, you are
a character actor. But you started so young, and so the assumption is at that young age, oh, that's that's who he is.
That's who I was.
Certainly he's not. He's not putting that on. That's he's got the blonde hair. He's the cool guy California surfery. That's fascinating. We have to move to truly one of my favorite shows of all time, and certainly what I would put up there with anything at least before this sort of what they call the Golden age of television recently is I mean, I was an enormous NYPD Blue fan, and for me, your work on that show was spectacular.
Was intense, dark, understated, but playing opposite Dennis Franz and simple wits the way that you guys worked together so much. And I and I say this with all sincerity and not to undermine it, because I'm not the first person that has has said that about your work. But you know, you had the Caruso years, which sort of started it, and then Jimmy Smith sort of became the Jimmy Smith's thing, and obviously his his departure from that show became sort
of a huge iconic television moment. But your work on that show for such a long time was spectacular and for me, being ignorant and not knowing that you were playing a character when you were a kid, for me, that launched you for me in my consciousness in an entirely different way. And I just remember because right, I mean, Dennis, he gets the firework, got he got, he got the f But I remember watching that show and just being like, you know what heat meaning you is doing was so great.
Talk to me just a little bit about your experience on that show and did you feel that in terms of the consciousness of America whatever that means, that that it was, it was redefining you.
Yeah, thank you for all those kind words. And just to be clear, NYPD Blue was a project. I've never acted less on that show. I mean, I look at my work and and when you're given and you know this, when you're given dialogue like that, and by the way, dialogue. When I say dialogue like that, I mean that was with the Milch era with Stephen Bochco. So Stephen Bochco being you know, at the top and sort of controlling Milch who could get out of control. But produce some
his characters, and his words were just poetry. You had to say every single word the way it was on the page, and you never questioned it, you know, you just you just did it. So for me, I just I remember Denna said to me, you know, probably the first month or so, at some point he says, less is more. You need to just give less. Our cameras are right in your face. And yeah, I just feel
like I gave so little in that role. But leading up to it, the anxiety that I had walking onto that set my journey was that I auditioned for the role. I auditioned for a project called Philly. Kim Delaney had left NYPD Blue. She went to go to her own show, which was Stephen's show, and it was called Philly. I don't know if she was a DA or if she was a public was a lawyer in Philadelphia, something like that. And there was a role a younger, you know, a
partner of hers or whatever and attorney. And I had just finished a film with Tom Evertt Scott and I go in for the audition. Again, very competitive, right, You want to get everything. You think you're right for everything. You have to have that mentality in this business, so you have to go in and go I'm right for this, even when you know you're absolutely all right.
Right.
I remember sitting on the Fox lot. I was in the parking lot and I got a message from my manager saying, you don't need to go in there to offered it to Tom Evert Scott. You know what Tom Everts Scott for this role. I go, we're completely different. I got this is I'm right for this. Why would they offer it to him? Did he go in? Did he read? They're like no, it was a straight up offer. I'm like, well, that's bullshit. I'm I go, I gotta I'm going in and they go, well, yeah, okay, just
go in and meet Steven. And so you know, nothing against Tom. It just it doesn't matter who you are. I want to beat you. And so I go in and Steven's there, and I'd never met Steven, and I'm not a business guy. I don't know these people. I'm in my late twenties, and but I walk in. I see this man, white hair, sol sitting there, tennis shoes on, and I don't know the history of you know, an NHYPD Blue. I've heard things, you know, but it wasn't wasn't my wheelhouse. I go and I do the audition.
After the audition, he and I know this. I know they've already offered this to Tom. And he looks at He looks at me, and he goes, you know what, You're really good. And I said thank you, sir, and he goes, I'd like to work with you someday. And I was like, oh, there it is. I already know that. You know they've offered it as a Tom. This is a nice way of him saying, you know you didn't get the job, son, because I want to work with you one of these days. And well, thank you so much.
It was a pleasure. Two weeks later, got a call, you know, mister Botchko would like Mark Paul to be a part of NYPD Blue. Didn't say the capacity, didn't say like I'm thinking oh, And we jumped at it. It was during pilot season. You know you're you're jumping at things like this. We had heard rumors that Rick Schroeder who was going to leave, so in your in my mind, I'm like, oh, I get to play a beat cop. I get to play a uniform, right, And that's all
it was. Was would he be interested. Of course, yeah, we jump on it. Then to come to find out that I'm gonna be Sip what's his partner? Are you kidding me? I mean I auditioned for Philly. I never played a cop, so he doesn't see me as I'm playing in New York Detective Like, it doesn't make any sense to me, Like, I'm like, what is this a joke? Like why are you putting me in this position? I haven't done anything to warrant this position. And at the time,
you know, the internet's kind of going around. I believe there was a critic named Alan Steppenwall that had a blog about, you know, because people were passionate about NYPD Blue. I mean, oh yeah, right, it's like the Office. It's
it's I mean, people the rabbit about things. And yeah, I mean you say, not only am I going to bring in a child actor once, I'm going to do it again the guy who played you know, Silver Spoons, and now the guy who played Zach Morris on on Save by the Bells coming in to play Sip what's his partner? I happened to read a lot of the blogs that were going on, or a lot of the posts and it was not pretty, and I just had
so much anxiety to walk on that set. The first time I met Dennis was at a you know, before the season, you do the photo shoot and yeah, yeah, I don't know what that is, but they do this every season for shows, where you come in and you you take these photos and you do these like, you know, little bumpers and teasers and stuff like that.
Whirls, yeah, put it. They put it where they are about to go to commercial or yeah exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and so that's where I met Dennis. And I remember him walking on the some lot and I see him walking towards me. And of course, before then, I wasn't a fan. I never saw an episode of NYPD Blue. So before that I'm watching the show religiously. I'm like getting as much information as it possibly can. And so I'm seeing this man's work and like, this guy's a beast, right, I mean, he's he is the real deal. Nine times nominated for an Emmy, four times
he wins. I mean, this is an actor. I don't consider myself an actor at this point. I don't I don't consider what I'm doing. I'm just like it's like we I'm having fun, you know that trying to make a living. I see him walking up to me and there's sipoets, you know, this sort of being, you know, and he just has his arms outstretched and he just gives me the biggest bear hug you can possibly imagine, and he just says, welcome to our family. I'm so excited to work with you. I can't wait. And I
was like wow. And that was Dennis from the very beginning until the very end, just the most lovable guy you would ever want to be on cameras with, or or or you know, in a casual situation. His work ethic, approached his work with the same sort of intensity and excitement, you know when when he got his dialogue and how he went to his approach and knowing his dialogue, and I learned so much in those four years that that
was the he shaped me. And and that process with Stephen Boschko who became a mentor as well, and everyone on that Mark Tinker, Bill Clark, that was a moment in my journey that I will never forget. And I'm so thankful that I had that, because you're right, that was the start of my adult career. That I think that's that's not even I don't want to say adult career.
That was the start of my career really of understanding you know, what I was doing and and and the impact you could have, and yeah, just just working with the best it was.
It was amazing, you know the office, particularly as you know, by the way we were we were not a Saturday morning show, and we were shooting sixty plus hours a week. Don't cry for us. We were doing thirty episodes a year some seasons.
Wow, Andy, how many days would it take to film one episode?
Five?
But you guys were a single camera, right, say it was a single camera, so it was five okay.
Yeah, so like twelve to fourteen a day. You know, by the end of this these seasons, when you get into episodes twenty two to twenty six, sometimes the scripts come a little bit late.
Yep.
It is famous as genius as the writers in milch Is. You guys would get scripts very late at times. Yet as you said, now, we could mess with the words a little bit, and we could mess with the timings, but you guys could not. How difficult was that or did you just consider it a challenge, a exciting challenge, a.
Well, so I was fortunate and unfortunate because I would have loved to work with Milch left the year before I So I came on. Yeah, no, no, no no, but it was a it was a thing that I came on, uh, season nine, because it was going to be the last season we ended up. It was, yeah, it was like nine, that's it, Milch is leaving. Milch went on to do something else for ABC. They were just like, yeah, nine, and you know, it just it just the show became very expensive to shoot and licensing fee,
you know how th stuff works. And they were like, yeah, we'll just we got a we got we got to season twelve. Milch was kind of there, but not writing the script, so the process became much more refined. They didn't have to rely on Milch. It's one of the reasons I believe that I think I don't I hate talking, you know, putting words in his mouth, but I believe that's why Smith's left was because of that process of it.
He just couldn't take it with With Milch. They had pagers on like they would come on set, they would rehearse something, which you know, they had words and pages, and then they would rehearse it. Milt should see it and say nope, everybody'd leave, I got to rewrite this.
They would all have pages on them. They would just be out and about and then they would get a call saying, you know, come back in, and they would do something again, and or they'd film an entire scene and spend you know, three four hours on it, and Milt would see it and go, nope, I gotta we're gonna redo this, and so.
You but it wasn't quite like that.
No, no, no, when I came on, it was a well oiled machine. It was like that the year before with with Schroeder, and then Schroeder left and Milch left, and then when I came on, Botch go really, you know, clamp down on that, and was very it was. It was a very yeah. And I was always told and and you know, Dennis, Dennis was okay with that. Dennis being a theater actor, you know, he was able to to you know, take the pages and process it and get it out there. But there's some certain actors I
can't do that. I completely understand. I actually would have been fine with it because coming from sort of that sitcom you know, where you're you're given lines alts.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well you got four years out of it and finished finished it up. Talk to me a little, just a little about when it ended. How difficult was that to you? I know that myself as well as much of the television viewers in America, there were not dry eyes in people's houses. How difficult was that for you?
Yeah? I I it was. It was terrible. I mean I feel like we could have continued with that show.
I don't.
I don't really know why. I think, you know, there's a point where it's completely out of our control, but there's you know, people that are above us that just decided to move on with things. I would have liked that show to continue. I'm not sure if Dennis was done, but if that was the reason. There was a lot of speculation that the show could not survive with without Dennis, and there's some truth to that. I think for me,
I felt that way. Looking at it now, I'm like, well, I don't know, maybe we could, you know, maybe you could do it. I mean you see how Low and Order has has reinvented itself over and over and over again. But that's not the show that NYPD blue was. It wasn't. I mean, at its core, I guess it's a procedural, but it was so much more than that.
Oh my god, Yes, the relationships and character building and the rawness. Yeah, and weird. I mean, it's funny. I was such a huge fan of that. That shaky camera. That got a whole lot of press. However, many years later for a comedy, our shaky camera got a lot, got a lot of press when we started out. Yeah, it's uh, it's funny how that stuff works.
We we were so the way they filmed that too, I mean, it's it's it's it's shaped how I direct and understand how to direct. Mark Tinker directed the majority of our shows, and he was an executive producer as well. And that style and how Tinker would sort of edit
in his mind while he was shooting. He would be looking at the screens and we'd have like three cameras going, and he would sit there with a microphone, and each of the camera operators and the focus pullers would have earbuds in and he would you know, say dirty words
to them in their ears as we're filming. But also he would basically tell them going closer, pull out, you know, go to go to Dennis, go to Henry, you know, so he was editing while he was filming, and that that's why you would get those camera swings and zoom ins and and things like that. So it was a really cool process. And I think I haven't worked with Tinkers since, but I do believe he incorporates that into
shows that he is either show running or directing. It's just a really cool way of getting what you want and being really efficient. And I think his record was filming an episode of NYPD Blue, a full episode in under six days. That's insane because it became that way. You know, it's towards the end of the run. You're like trying to challenge yourself as a director as well. Right, you've done twelve seasons of this, so you know, trying to trying to be as efficient as possible. It's pretty cool.
Although I will say, you know that moving camera is helpful.
It is what I but not only efficiency, but for acting. I really love when you know, it's like being in theater right, like you're on you think you're in the background, and I and NYPD Blue and same with the office would do that, like it pulls focus to the rear of a reaction that you give. I love that that style, and as an actor, you don't get bored, right, You're not. Oh it's it's Steve's you know coverage. I I'm just gonna sit here and just give him kind of of what I would do.
You'll get caught for sure. Yeah. I could talk to you about all this all day, but uh, you you have such an amazing mix after your career starts comedy drama, Franklin and Bash, raising the bar, Truth be told, pitch down here in San Diego. The passage, by the way, mixed dish. I don't even know if it's fair to say I was up for I don't remember. I think you and I are like, there are details that go away.
Your best friend, I don't even remember who got it, And I went to and I don't remember the character's name, and I went to when I was going to talk to you, I went to research this and I was like, what was it? Gary Cole? And then I was like, no, that was that was older. It was your best friend. That's all I remember. Yeah, and I'm sure the actor was spectacular, but would have been it would have been better for you.
You were too expensive. You seriously, I'm telling you that it really comes down to the because and I forgive me the minute I do. The minute I'm done with something, even a day's worth of work, I tend to forget, like it's just I have to That's this is the way my brain works. I have to process other things, and I don't have the capacity. Uh. But the actor I remember, I see his face. I don't know his name. He was really good, completely like you and him are
not alike. I do remember them going out for names, and I consider you obviously a name, but I know that there wasn't any money in it. You know, there's so many other things. You can't make me feel better now. I don't feel bad still, but that would have been a lot of fun to work with you. And I've now seen and remembering what the kind of character was, that would have been a lot of fun to be He was a bit of a slacker, that guy.
Like Okay, I don't even remember. Yeah, I don't remember.
I think I think you know that happens when when a project comes up. They always do this, every project, they shoot for the moon, right, They're like, we want Brian for this, and You're like, Okay, great, Yeah, let's go for Brian. And then it settles in of like Brian gets this much per episode. You're like, yeah, maybe we won't go for Brian. And then you go to you know, you go to your next tier and you're like, we want them, and then you realize like, oh, they live in Europe.
Oh right right? Comedy drama, you don't care. It's about creating a character, right.
Yeah, No, I don't mind. I prefer drama. I think comedy is really tough. I struggle with comedy a little bit more than I do with drama.
Your new show, hit show I just read this morning. Maybe it was announced a while ago. Season two is coming on My mothership. On the mothership NBC new show Found so different. Interesting talk about NYPD blue, Like there is some depth to this show and issues that are being discussed in this show that you don't typically see in network television. You are playing not just drama, but you your character incredibly dark but so well done as usual. How what has your experience been like on Found.
It's been it's been a challenge that's been rewarded with the second season, which is always our intention. I mean, I never go into I don't know about you, but you never go into a project going, I hope it only gets one season, you know, pitch truth be told. I mean all these projects you go into going, I want seven season and I want to retire, you know, I just want to I want to get that residual money that has been eluded. I didn't get it that much on NYPD Blue because I came in late in
the in the game. Didn't get it on Saved by the Bell Franklin Bash. We did forty episodes and four years on TNT. I mean, you know nothing, you know mixed Dish. I was like, yes, here we go. I'm coming on. I'm going to ride these coat tails of Blackish. This is it. I'm done. I get to do this show, which I love, I like the people. I'm gonna this is it. I've made it. First season. We do twenty three and I'm like, yes, because I love working. I love I love I love the reward.
I love.
You know, you worked your ass off, you get paid great, and you know you get to take great family vacations. What's not to love? So bring it on. Like when when they say you know you're gonna do twenty two or whatever, the next season on Mixed Ish, we did thirteen, so we found we did you know? We started with thirteen and now we're going to do twenty two this second season, and I'm just so excited. It's a very
challenging role. It's a role that I haven't played. You know, I've played some darker characters, but nothing quite like him. The name of the characters Sir Sure and Sir is despicable. I mean, it's it's just a it's a gross He's a gross human being with not a lot of redeemable qualities, and I don't know that he deserves any redemption. When I asked the showrunner and Kidji, you know, I like to do research on my roles and understand where the
writers coming from. And I asked her, I said, you know, is there anybody out there that I should model Sir after? And she's said probably, out of all the sickos that we've had in society, Ted Bundy was the one that you should probably base him off of. He was charming, he was, you know, decent looking guy. He was able to use those two qualities to disarm his victims to do some monstrous things. But that was who she wanted sir.
You know, he was also a very smart man and uses intellect to sort of work his way into the lives of his victims. So that's who she wanted me to emulate. You know, not great people, but the show itself. I mean, you're right, it does stand for something that is often not approached on network television. I thought when I read it pilot season of twenty twenty two, this was one of the pilots of that season that was you know, a lot of people wanted to be a
part of it was so well written. Sheanola Hampton, was already attached her sort of history and pedigree and like who she is as a person. Everything was positive and you know, she's just she's like one of those Dennis Franz people. Right when you meet her, she's like, Oh, this is going to be an absolute treat to work with. She's the real deal. She was a producer on the show. She had a deal with NBC, so she was already
attached working with Greg Berlanty. Like as actors, like, you see these things and the boxes are being checked and you're like, right, it lines up. Doesn't mean it's a guarantee for anything. You're still taking a risk with a character in this This was a definite risk. I mean, this was a character that you could get skewered on. But it seemed have worked and NBC loves it and I love being with NBC. Still, Mad Day canceled, saved by the Bill to reboot. But you know, I can't
can't win them all. But I was bummed that we didn't get more than two seasons out of that. But I still, you know, I started my career here and hopefully this is the one that ends it. Always looking for that. Indeed, I want to start playing golf like you.
Brian, do you ever have you? Have you? Has there been any discussion or have you talked about any similarities with obviously not a real monster, but Hannibal Lecter. Has there been any conversation on the team or in your own mind about that that character.
I was a huge fan growing up of the Silence of the Lambs and some of the sequels as well, with Gary Oldman and Rayleota and some great stuff. I never proached it from that angle. Yeah, I never really approached it from there.
There are similarities, yeah, And you know I'm attempting to not give stuff away I've been watching but an imprisoned if you will back, you can give it away.
I mean we've been giving it away this entire time. Basically, I kidnapped a girl when she was sixteen. She escapes. Years later, she becomes an advocate to find people who are lost and in need of being found but don't have the means or funds.
From marketized communities. Correct, yes, yeah.
And she has a band of she has a team that each has a specific role and ability to help in that process. You know, pr people, attorneys, ex military, and they help find these people that need to be found. She, like I said, it's escaped and starts this company. At some point she her kidnapper and imprisons him in her basement and uses his intellect and knowledge of what he would do given the situation of some of these kidnap people or you know, their loss, and I guess just
using his knowledge to help solve the cases. But my character and people say, oh, he's doing it for redemption. He feels bad that he did it to her, and it's like, no, that's not it at all. I don't think my character and I've never played it that way where he's doing this for to find redemption. He's doing it because this is his entire journey with Gabrielle. And that's Shanola's character is he just wants to be in
her company. He wants to be in her presence, and it doesn't matter that he's living in her basement and that he's falling ill down there. The fact that he just gets to be with her is everything that he ever wanted. And then you know he helps with the cases because he likes to see her do well, wants
to see her do well. But yeah, when I think about it, like the Signs of the Lambs, like, there's nothing sexual about these two characters, even though you think because it's a male and female that there is some sexual component to it, but there there really isn't and it's not on our show. And I never felt that way with what the Signs of the Lambs either.
Right, It's fascinating. It is the kind of show that network television should be doing. So I'm so glad even with the strike that it well, it's it's gotten, it's gotten plenty of attention because of the team assembled, as you mentioned, and and and it's good. So congratulations you season two back in hot Atlanta.
Oh, I'll tell you that's hard. I love Atlanta. I love Atlanta. It's I mean it is you filmed the Office in Los Angeles, right, Yes, it's tough. You know. It's anytime we're away from our family. And I'm am like you, We're just family men. You know if I consider my off a husband and a father and an actor in that order, and so whenever I have to be away from my family, it's really hard for me
going back though. And again, at this point, everybody should turn off your however, you're listening to this because I'm going to endorse San Diego again and we don't want you to move down here. But the airport is amazing in San Diego, and yeah that I have to, I travel back and forth sometimes twice a week to be home. I could never do that in La at Lax. Neither what I ever want to. I would, I would, I
would go out of my mind. But the fact that we have such a great airport here, I'm able to come back and forth between Atlanta and here.
Oh, I know that flight very very well. Those flights, there's at least a few of them, So that's that's also rare.
MP.
Thank you so so much for coming on and being so candid and talking to me. I found it fascinating, and I wish you all of the best. I hope that this is the end for you. If you're ready for the end, let's make this be the end. Well, another seven years from now, another seven years from now, it'll be the end.
But and I say that, and I don't know if I say that in jest. I've I've mean, look, I've had a long career so far. I'm it would be nice for me to In my head, I'm like, wouldn't it be nice if I could just say no, Like I'm always feeling like I'm still saying yes yeah to take things, and you know, get I get antsy, Like people say, oh, you constantly work, and I do, but that's my choice. Like I actively am out there really hustling because you know, we have kids and we have
a certain lifestyle. We like having them and it's life, right. But so I'd love to get to that point where you're like, nah, I'm good.
Nah. I know, well, you're on the road all the time. I'm on the road. It's funny because one of my producers was just asking me, like thirty minutes before we started, like much you guys hang out and I'm like, I'm always so happy when I see him, but we were never here at the same time, and now he's leaving again. Well we'll figure it out. We'll go have dinner. I wish you all the best and thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and chatting with me.
Thanks Brian, thanks for having me on.
So great to talk to you, MPG. And yes, I will see you around the neighborhood everybody else. You can see him on Found airing Thursdays, my old night on NBC. But guess what, with the magic of technology, you can stream it any day you want. And I will see you next time right here on Off the Beat. Until then, have a great week. Off the Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers
are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Ali Amir Saheed. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and Only Creed Brad