Leonardo Nam

come here. Then you just accept it. For the next month, you go, you party your balls off, you do it, and then you get on a plane and you go back to Australia. Or you make the decision and you make the choice now that you show up for yourself, you show up for what you came here to do. You give it your all, and then you see what happens. And that really was the moment that really changed my life. Hey guys, I'm Leonardo nam I currently have a show

called Maggie on Hulu. But you may know me from things like Westwold or Assisted of the Trampling Pants all my first movie The Perfect Score. Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand spanking new episode of Off the Beat. And would you look at that. It's me your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today, as you just heard, we are going to be speaking to the truly amazing Leonardo nam Now you may know Leo as Westworld employee Felix Lutz or currently as Dave on Hulu's new hit comedy Maggie. Now.

So interesting about Leo. He was so sure that he wanted to be an actor that he traveled across the world literally to sleep on a bench in Central Park. That's where New York concrete jungle, where dreams are made of. That is where he got his start. And now he's

been on so many incredible TV shows and movies. After starting performing Shakespeare in Shakespeare in the Park where he slept originally, He's gone on to star in The Perfect Score, The Fast and the Furious, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, even where he was cast originally by the offices Ken Kappas. And I'm told that some of you may be excited to know that he was once featured in Steve Aoki's music video with BTS. So there you go. I thought

it was pretty amazing. You should go and check it out. Uh. With all of that said, let's get to it shall we my new best friend Leo nam Bubba Squeak. I love it. Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and squeaker cookie every month left over from the Nabby. What's up Leo? Hey, Brian, how are you? I'm good? How are you? I'm great, man, I'm I'm excited to be on your show. Hey, thanks for having me. Oh, thanks so much, thank you. You know your your accent right now? Is is? Really? I

wasn't sure what accent I was gonna get. You got the accent right now. I mean, you're you're from all four corners of the globe. I am a little bit. You were born in Buenos Ares to Korean parents. You grew up in Sydney, that's the accident I'm hearing, and then to New York. This is uh yeah, you're you're Mr International for sure. Well, it does feel nice to to hear someone repeat to me like, oh, where I've lived and what I've done, you know most of that stuff.

By the way, you know, it was like not by choice. It's not like I was like, you know what, I'm decided to be born in you know what I mean? Nudge me over there. You know, well, I was an early adapter and passionate fan of Westworld when it started. Every Sunday night was sending tweets about how it was blowing my mind. And obviously you played a pivotal role in that. But I do want to go back to start with your childhood. I mean, obviously an incredibly diverse background.

When did you move to Sydney from argent Tina. I'm we moved when I was seven. I believe we started to kind of make the trip when I was about six, and yeah, it got to Australia, um right at the end of first grade, I believe when I started school there. What do you consider yourself besides international man of Mystery

are are you? Are you Australian? What do you consider yourself? Yeah, I mean I feel like I am Australian like culturally, you know, I relate to people most um by as being an Australian and I think a lot of that comes from, um, you know, my formative years being in Australia, and Australia has this sensibility about themselves where you're Australian first, you know more than anything else, and so you're Australian

and you know whether good or bad. You know, people have different perspectives about that, um and and I certainly you know, do my off. But but I do love that quality about Australians, that you're Australian like first and foremost. You know, Australia also has like this tall poppy syndrome expect where you know everyone's the same and you're like and if that, if one starts to pop out, you can cut them off. But yeah, I'm Australian, Korean and American and those are kind of the the big key ones.

Argentinian is you know when you look back at my life, yes, I definitely am Argentinians as well. But other than you know, other aspects of small aspects of food and um, some aspects of you know, culturally, how I how I relate to other people is Argentinian. But you know, ultimately, when someone first meets me, what I believe I present first is Australian and that's how I feel most comfortable when

someone relates to me that way. How do you think that your background there, your history, helped shape you into who you are? Oh, great question, you know, I feel like the whole idea and concept of an immigrant is all I've known and so the idea that you're not of this country, but you are this country in that

you're living here now you're contributing to this country. And so I think that that concept of you know, my parents being immigrants in Argentina and then being in a double immigrant then going to Australia, I think that really that that put a sense of hope and possibility in my life. You know, one thing that happened in Argentina was the Falkland Wars were happening, and it was kind of a moment where my family's realized that, you know,

ship's going down in Argentin. So my aunt married and Aussie and you know, in process of getting married, um, my grandmother then it was in Australia and was saying, hey, this is definitely a place that is not you know, in the midst of war, and it was in the kind of in her understanding of Western culture. You know, there was an exodus you know from Korea at that time, it was very much a third world country and so

looking to to move to the West. You know, their first stop was Argentina and then along the way, you know, the Fookland Wars happened. So then they moved to Australia. But I feel like because I came from a family that has moved around and have always been able to find their feet no matter what, I really connect to a sense of hope that I believe is possible. You know, like growing up, did I see anyone that looks like

me on screen? And no, there wasn't. There was maybe one, you know, that was the idea of Bruce Lee, but that was even during my time. He was dead and so there was no one that was actively telling story that looked like me. But I do think that it was because I had family that did immigrate and immigrated twice and really carved their own life in their own way for their family. For me, for um, it really does instan has instilled in me a sense of hope.

I really believe. That's so interesting to me because you know, in a lot of ways, I'm the opposite, right, I mean, I'm from the south of the United States, right, and most of my family have lived in that region, from the kind of the lower Midwest to the deep South. I mean, me moving to California was a big deal. I mean, that was that was that was a trip where that's like a totally different country from down there. But yeah, did they think of you as a betrayer?

Did you like betray them? By betray maybe a strong too strong of a world that you know? I mean, I traveled around it, did the are quite a bit? And I guess there was a sense of comeback here. I mean, not not so much from my parents. My parents were very supportive, but I think there was always that sort of idea of why are you somewhere else? Now? I'll tell you now that I'm in southern California. My family likes to visit here, so they want so there's kind of a free pass for this little in this

little island here. But yeah, but that idea of of not being too far from home. And I don't know, I'm kind of going off on a tangent here, but your experience having started so early on that journey of finding a new place, finding a new identity in some ways in a new place, and that your family had done that so often that that becomes second nature. And I do think we do live in a global world now, and and the idea that you have been or had experiences and family and in so much of it is awesome.

And I love the idea that that brings hope to you. Yeah, yea, that there's there there can be a rebirth. But I feel like anyone that strikes out on their own right like you did and what have you, I feel like we all have to. We have this camaraderie of hope. We have this camaraderie of belief in humanity and striving

for for the best life that you can. And I love hearing that that you've decided, you made the choice to like, you know, get out of the town that you were in and made it to southern California no matter what. And um, I have to say, I'm in the same way. You know, we're just we're just traveling shows, right but you um so okay. So you arrive basically end of your first grade year to Australia, when do you start to get a thought of being an actor? You know? I feel like it kind of started in

when I was in sixth grade. There was a sense of performance that started to come into my sphere. My brother's a choreographer. He was older than I am, and it is older than I am, and he had to kind of navigate his way through as a dancer at the time, and he was very much involved with that. Dance world was more hip hop and that kind of stuff.

But then we were also involved in church, and there was a Korean church kind of um, you know, they do these performances about about why this is a sin to instill fearing, right, and I was like, oh, I could get into that. Let's do that, right, uh, And and we we would perform and do these we write these plays and stuff and about you know, someone robbing a convenience store or you know, bashing an old lady and why that was bad and what happened and then

you know, the devil comes in or what have you. Right, So these really like wild stories and I really kind of enjoyed that. But the next step from there onwards was I was part of a public speaking after school program. And the after school program happened to have a ballet school that was part of it too, and also a drama side to it. And I remember going in and originally I was part of the public speaking program, and I remember I did rather well, and I kept like

not winning. I was like second place or you know, just a great job that you know, you just didn't get it. And I remember the teacher, Miss Hopwood. She said to me, you know, Leo, you um, you're either so passionate it or you're so technical, and you need to find a hybrid. And she said, maybe what would help you is if you did some drama, and so she gave me king Lear. At welve, I did the

Edmund speech and it blew my mind. It blew my mind that I thought, oh my goodness, like someone has written this from you know, youngkers Ago and I relate and resonate in some weird wave even though I'm saying these strange words, but I kind of get this feeling. And so that kind of was the key that unlocked it for me. And so after that, I then started to join a theater troupe. And I went to an all boys technical high school in Australia that was there

was no drama, and I started that. I started a theater club at school and then because of that, I end up doing my I guess what you would call your s A t S been Australia back then, it was called the HC. But I did that in drama and in the process of doing that, I found some wonderful lifelong friends and you know, us theater geeks and you know, feeling awkward and weird and trying to find

ourselves and all that good stuff. Right, I found my jam of people, and um, within that, I also found my jam of people that were very ambitious and very focused and we're really reaching for the stars and and you know we're writing musicals, were writing plays, we're writing films in high school. Um. So I joined that crew, that community, and because of that, I connected with an agent in Australia who put me in touch with someone

that's still my mentor to this day. Uh and he swan In in Sydney, and um, she really was the one if I can attribute the idea of craft and the respect of craft and class really you know, you know, being able to have taste and discern meant and she brought this concept of elevating my world. And so, um, that's kind of how my that that bug happened for me. And then from there the leap to New York happened. Yeah.

I mean I had a similar situation myself when it changed for me, and it sounds like it roughly the same age where I realized that this was not just an activity, but that this was this was something deeper, and I was involved in a program similar to what you're talking about, where it was like, oh, I see everyone had that like, oh, there's so much more to this that I want to know about. And you decided that to pursue this, you you needed to be in

New York. So I understand it. Nineteen years of age, you moved to New York to study acting. I hear you spent a few nights in Central Park. It yeah, may I mean I had no money. I mean I three hundred bucks in my back pocket and a credit card that didn't work. And I thought, hey, it's a good idea, great idea, guys, let's just going up and leave. Let's do it. And you know I I was um, I just had that that vision and the ambition, you know,

to go through it. I landed in New York, and I remember the only thing that I knew about was Broadway Times Square in Central Park. And so at that time I remember walking through Times Square just looking at all these billboards, being like, oh my god, you know, I've made it here. I am here, I am you know, And then at like two in the morning, You're like, where am I going to sleep? It didn't click for me. I was like, where am I gonna sleep? I don't know.

All I had was the audition date, you know, at that school. And so I I then just I mean there was a cab drive that that drove me around for a little bit. Uh, and he offered me some weed, which was really uh funny. I was like, what, like, yeah, but what's going on? Like okay? Um? And and I ended up, yes, staying at Central Park near Columbus Circle, and uh, you know, it was in the middle of summer and so it was hot, so it didn't need anything.

And but I remember, like, you know, talking to some some people that that were there that were you know, experiencing homelessness themselves, and and they were like they gave me ideas like you know, if a newspaper while people why people, why did they use that so it you know, it keeps them warm somewhat and what have you. Um. And so I didn't need that, thank god. But the next day I was like, rightly, you gotta pull it together.

This can't happen. I should actually say I did have a place to stay, but the person that I was supposed to stay with at least that you know, the first couple of nights, I didn't pick up the phone when I called, and so there was this sense of like, well and here, maybe they'll they'll pick up later. And that's why at two am, I was like, oh my god, where am I going to sleep? Okay? This is now, this is This makes me feel better because I was like, you got off the plane and you don't you have

no like, you haven't thought about anything. This makes it a little better for me. Yeah. Yeah, that I should have prevented by saying that. And he happened to be a flight attendant and so he had to take a trip and so that's why he wasn't available, and so that's the whole reason why I experienced that. And so then after a week of this, then he finally picked up the phone and then I was able to stay after a week. So you you mentioned there you had an audition that you said the studio. Now is this

HB Studio? Yeah, my goodness. So for those of you who don't know, HB Studio basically was training all of the best actors in New York City for years and years. My favorite book that I studied, I never met her Udha Haggins. Respect for acting. I studied that at school. My favorite book still to this day, it's in my office still here. You obviously you you have to be doing something there or be connected to the right people in Australia for for you to even get an audition there.

So you get accepted, Yeah, I got accept it. Yeah. Um. And it was to be in Buddhist class and and so I really, you know, it was desperate to to be around the best. And so I remember what my mentor in Australia had said. You know, when you meet someone and you you see that their work is excellent, work with them. Do whatever you can to say I'm going to work with you. I'm gonna work with you. I'm gonna work with you. And so really deciding and to take that road of studying UM and and being

in in her class really changed my life. It isn't the most um you know, prestigious school, and what happens more like a working man school, you know, even though the alumni is like al Paccino, Cynthia, next sent I mean, Babarah. So it goes on and on and on. But it's because they welcomed everyone and they believed everyone should have

access to this kind of work. Um. And so I made the decision pretty early on actually to only work with the best because when I was landed there, all I wanted to do was just party because I was like, I'm in New York City. I can't believe this. Oh my god, this is great. This is a fantastic this fantastic game whatever from the cab drivers. This is the cab driver Like, what are you talking about? This is

I've made it. I've made it. And so I I remember, actually pretty early on, I was in a class in the Shakespeare class with Jeffrey Owens, who was teaching you know, legendary guy. It was a ten am class and I lived in the East Village and the school is in the West Village, and I had to leave my house by nine thereabouts. Mind you, I had like a red mohawk at the time, and I got to school on rollerblades even in the snow. I mean, hello, crazy Aussie,

just like coming throw guys coming through. Um. And I had to leave at and I remember i'd gone out the night before and I kept pressing snows remember thinking, you know what, Leo, if you can't get up, if you can't get your ass up, and go to school for the reason why you left everything in Australia because you're too busy going out and partying or doing you know, trying to experience this other side of New York and

not the real reason why you've come here. Then you just accept it for the next month, you go, you part of your balls off, you do it, and then you get on a plane and you go back to Australia, or you make the decision and you make the choice now that you show up for yourself, you show up for what you came here to do. You give it your all, and then you see what happens. And that

really was the moment that really changed my life. Um, not only did I decide right there and then that I would make the commitment to myself to the work, to you know, the platform that that's been given to me at that moment and for the rest of my life what I would be doing, but also me realize, like, what are you doing sleeping on the floor, Leo, Like, get it together, get it together? Like yeah, at the beginning,

it was sure, it was fun. Yeah whatever I did this, I slept here in the park, yeah whatever, you know, And I kind of imagined that i'd go back and say, hey, back in the day, this is what I did, you know, Like, but there in living in I realized like, nah, I don't want to do this, you know, get your finger out of here, as Leo and let's go um. And so that that really was a big turning point for me.

And then after that it was, you know, every week figuring out how I work, how other people work, um, And I started to take a lot of ownership of my own discovery of what it meant to be in my own craft, what it meant to feed my own beast, and what my beast likes to eat. Right, that's so awesome. I love that story. Are you starting to work outside of the studio at this point? How does that transition start to work for you from doing the work, putting

in the effort, and then also started to play other roles. God, I love that you're making me connect the dots from back there, um, because it was it's a mixture of magic. Really, it's a mixture of like when you show up for yourself, right, and you show up for yourself and you don't know what's going to happen, that you show up with the belief in yourself, and you show up with the work on your craft and respect for it, then other things

start to fall into place. And so one of the things that happened was I met someone that was like at a cafe and it was you know, definitely one of those moments of like, you know, everyone's drinking coffee and like they got berets, and like it kind of felt like that you were wet, but you know what I mean, like in the eighth Village, Tompkins Square Path, like all that stuff, and and and someone had told me about like that they that there was an abandoned

school and that a friend of theirs was going to put up a production, a Shakespeare production, and he thought it was going to be Hamlet, but he wasn't sure. But back in the day, there was at this story it still is around now backstage right, And so that's where a lot of people would get you know, their their their auditions, especially when they're starting off. And it was a non union project, and so I would scour that all the time, and I found that one posting

and so I connected the dots. I went back to that dude in the cafe and was like, hey, you know, he's that the guy and blah blah blah blah. And then I went off and I auditioned and I got the role of Ozdric. Uh. And I played Ozdric as a drag queen on roller blades. Yeah, okay, follow me, Yeah, stay with me. I like it because the director and I were chatting about, you know, what it is that he wanted to do with the production in and you know,

and I love that stuff. I love someone being like, yeah, let's flip the swit like the script, let's do it. Let's figure out how you are going to add value to this production. And so I had shown up in role blades. I can't believe that with a mohawk, and and I did the piece, you know, first of all without rollers. But then I said, hey, you know, I've got this idea. What do you think if I do it like this? And like I said, it was an

abandoned school. Um. And so I would roll a blade around as I would would do the my audition and and then speak. That ended up being part of the show. Um. And so that was my first kind of transition into doing work and being paid for work. And it was still at the time that I was still sleeping on the floor. Um. And so there was one night that I was like, I I'm going to sleep here in the theater, in this abandoned school because I made more sense for me to be there. I didn't have to

be anywhere, you know. And and that's kind of my first moment of realizing like how much it fed me, how much doing this kind of work in the most obscure, strange way but yet magical for me. Everybody else may maybe like horrified, but for me, it was so magical

to connect those dots. And that kind of was the turning point for me, because then after that then I was like super hyper focused on getting into Shakespeare in the Park and super focused on trying to figure out what and how what I needed to do to have longevity in this business. And so from there it went off and I got Shakespeare in the Park welfth Night, and I really enjoyed that audition process. I really enjoyed that, um, the process of rehearsal um. You know, I really I

thought that I had made it. I was like, I've come here to do shakes me to the Park, New York conquered. He'll be yes, I'm you know, spear carrying number three. Um, but I did not care, you know. I mean, there was the possibility of understudying someone, but I was like, whatever, I've made it. Here we go. Um. And then at that same time is when I got my first film audition. And the film audition was for

a movie called The Perfect Score. I've done one indie film before that, but this was my first kind of bigger Wait, this is your first film audition The Perfect Score? Yeah, yeah, my first real film audition. The one before, I guess it was like an indie film, a New York indie film that kind of, you know, was more of a homegrown project. This was my first like, hey, this script has done, this has been financed, you know, here we go,

my first Hollywood film, so to speak. So his first audition, he ends up landing the role in The Perfect Score cast alongside Scarlett Johansson Chris Evans Christensen. What kind of a moment was that for you? Oh? You know what? It was a moment like, I swear to god, it felt like I was in fame, Like I swear, I should you not? So I'm in I'm at the public theater right and I am, like I said, I'm like so chuffed. I'm like, yeah, man, I've made this is

so great. And I go to the bathroom and i see thirteen miss calls and I'm like, what the fuck like? And mind you how I got the role was so you know, when I said, hey, I've I learned how to feed my beast, right, I look, I was. I started to be open to the receptors of that as an artist, like what can feed me? You know, new perspectives. And I've never done yoga, so I go do yoga. And I had auditioned already tried to audition for this role. You know, I scoured the breakdown of all the auditions

I'd scoured backstage. I'd learned that every movie needed to have a film permit, and they got film permits by going down to city Hall. And so from there you were able to find out the phone number of a production and there was a name so you could call and call someone. I mean, you love this, yo, I was like laser focus. Yeah, and so anyone out there, That's what I'm saying, Like, you can do it man. Anyway,

So I I find out about this project. I had heard about the perfect score they were looking for, you know, a character that was originally um, you know, it's just a teenager, uh, and then assumed as a white character. But I submitted, and then it came around again a couple of months later and it was you know, um, an African American guy, and then and then nothing. I submitted again. Then it said a Latino or African American

or white, and then it said open ethnicity. And I was like, guys, I gotta fall under that, Like come on, I'm purple, you know. And so then at that time, I go to that yoga class and someone I just got to know that was just happened to be next to me, and she is a baby print agent and you know you you go to have tea or hang out afterwards after you again, that's how I discovered that. And so I said to him, you know what, there was this audition that I have been trying to submit for.

I think that they would be more receptive to it if it came from under the banner of an agency. And she's like, you do realize it is literally for babies and for prints for baby magazine. That's what she does. And I was like, I don't care, just go through it. And you know, she submitted me and I got in. But anyway, so then ye she calls me like thirteen thirteen miss calls and I was like, what is going on? Say? I hear the voicemail and she says, hey, after after class,

come meet me. She's like, you got the You've got the role. They're they're talking about offering you this three picture deal and this and that, And I never experienced any of this stuff. I was like, what is this even moving? Right? And so then I go out there and I at the public Theater at the time. There was these glass doors and with a with a railing on it, and I went up to and I just kicked open the door and asked door plays like kicked open the door, like you know, like, oh, I've made it.

Here we go. So that was my experience. It was super wild man. And you know, I've got to say like I went through a bit of a a crisis at that time because here I was someone that had gotten my dream of being in a part of the Shakespeare in the Park production, and I thought, for life, I'm just gonna be doing theater for life. Then I get this movie and it's you know, an ensemble role, and it's one of the leads, and I was so torn.

So I went to go to see Heidi Griffiths at um Jordan's Faylor at the Public there were the Carson directors and I said to them, you know, like, oh my god, I feel so sad that I had to tell them this. And they were like, are you crazy, Like what are you talking about? Like, oh, sweet child, what are you talking about? And and and they really put it into perspective for me that were like, Leo, you know your spear carrying number three, and it's wonderful that you are part of this. But no one is

going to go see an Asian Hamlet. They're just not going to see that. They're not going to go see a Black Hamlet. They're going to see Denzel Washington as Hamlet, or or they're gonna see Leonardo nam as that. That's the perspective you've got to you've got to start to look. And I thought, oh shit, okay, I'll do that. And they said, go off and do that, Go do the movies, Go do these things that you need to do, and then come back and then play this. And I thought, right,

that's what I'm gonna do. So HI do if you're listening. I want to come back. That is so awesome. Oh god, I love By the way, did the did the baby print agent take ten percent? Oh yeah, oh yeah, she talked ten percent? Let me tell you. And I remember actually going into I actually broken my own deal. I was like the one on the phone with business affairs, you know, being like, yeah, okay, we'll hold on please, and then I put you know, put them on hold

as if like I'm my own assistant. And then there were these the other baby Print agents and I'd be like, what are we gonna do there? What does the schedule f mean? They're like I don't know. And I was like, well, like just double it. We did literally went in and said and then just try to double it. We was so like, just went for it. It was great, get it. But I learned that you have to ask. You have to ask. Um, this movie send your career in an

entirely new direction. I do have to mention. The next year, he gets cast in the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants with notably my old boss coworker Ken Kappas. Oh yes, yes, from the pilot. Yeah, what a what an amazing guy he is? Huh, what an amazing gem he is. I am so grateful that you know, he is such a kind and gentle soul with you know, fantastic, fantastic you

know ability and taste. Really, I mean he cost me and it cost you what doing no, but it was it was a mixture of not only Ken Corpus, but also Deborah Martin Chase, the producer of Sisters of the Traveling Pants. It was a you know, based on books, pre existing books, and the role was written as a

blonde hair, blue eyed guy. And it was because Deborah Martin Chase had seen me in the Perfect Score, you know, she really and Ken had decided that, you know, there is opportunity here to expand the story and to really delve in deeper and what would what would it be like if I came on board the film and it's fantastic. I mean, the Sister of the Traveling Pants um audience and the fans are just you know, fanatics that are wonderful. They gave me belief and hoping myself that the industry

would want to see actors and characters like me. And it made me believe that you know, even though something is written a certain way, when if you get wonderful minds together, then a whole new world can be cracked open. Little did I know that not everyone things like that, you know, And I was very lucky that my early in my career that I was kind of helped along by people like that, and it really you know, said, yeah, it really did set my my career in a new

track because of that. You know, you talked early on about not seeing a lot of people that looked like you in in the film as a kid that spoke English, that spoke English, that was a big deal to that spoke English, that lived in a world like mind, having experiences like mind, Sorry going no. Do you do you think that this this opportunity and sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.

Do you think that that began to maybe crack that door open a little bit for other Asian actors and and for for viewers as well to see a more diverse canvas if you will. Yeah, you know, it's I have to say that. Um. You know, throughout my career, people have you know, consistently come up to me and talk to me about how impactful it was to see my face on the poster of a movie. But we'll be like, oh my God, Like, I never knew that we could have our face up there. I never knew that.

And there are people in this industry that have come up to me and said, oh, because of seeing you and that I have now been decided to take on this career and what have you. And sister of the Driving Pants also did did do that. And I'll give the example of just how one mind was was changed. So you know, as you can imagine, people were very they're rabid fans of the book. You know obviously as

to why they made it into a movie. You don't want to mess with like fourteen year old girls, man, like fourteen year old girls, and they found out was something like that is it, mate? You better watch out? And I had no idea. And so I remember when I did the film, and um I would get these this fan mail and um no, always fans because I remember this one girl wrote to me and it was in like you know, bubble writing with like you know, love hearts over the eyes and that kind of stuff, right,

but it was vicious. It was like, I don't see you as this character. You don't look like him. What makes you think that you can play him? You're ruining this Like that, and I just was like, whoa. And it was really kind of a strange feeling. I was like kind of looking over my shoulder, being like, oh my god, is this fourteen year old girl going to be the one that like? But but then, but then actually the film came out and that same girl wrote to me and she said, I'm sorry that I said that.

I saw the film and you were wonderful in it. You know, you made Brian more than what I thought he was going to be. And you know that basically now that she was on a fan and on board, and I remember being like, what, like, I this random person, their mind has been changed? And I think so. I think I think it did change people's minds after that a little bit, I have to say, you know, it must have. I think, yeah, you continue on a number of roles. I want to talk a little bit about

West World. I was so blown away by the story, first of all, and the potential I don't know, political or geopolitical ramifications of this created world, the class and money and control, and um, did you were you given the opportunity to read the script before you auditioned? M uh no, hell no, are you kidding me? So far? Down the totem pole. But I did know very early on.

You know, I've been very lucky to have people in my corner that look at me as as I think an actor, as an artist, as someone that can create a character. And so there was the Custo and director John poppsy Darius, someone that has you know, for the longest time would bring me in on things, you know, someone that reflects back to you, like the the idea that, um, you can possibly play these roles Like I'd always be like, you think I can play this role? Like wow, very

like I was. I was really flattered, you know, like every time it would be a role that I'm like what wow? Um. And so when this role came around, you know, I was in down in the dumps in regards to the industry, and I had a really hard time, you know, trying to uh find and reinvent myself. You know, people had seen me for so long as only like a young teenager. And then again with the industry, there just wasn't a lot of opportunity for people that look

like me. I turned down other roles, and little did I know that in turning down those roles, there would not be other lead roles that for people that look like it just didn't exist, and I kept being like, no, I don't want to do that stuff. I want to

do this kind of work. So ironically, in a way, the lowest point in my career where really in this really hard place that I was at, this little gift came in again from someone that has the vision like John, and they asked me to come into play this role of Felix of it was just called LUTs at the time, and he gave me an idea and a breakdown of what the story is and just a little bit of information and he basically said, you know, come in and

you know, go nuts, go go do magic um. And what I've always loved about going into to see people like John Papsida and other other fantastic cast and directors or producers or directors that think in this way, they always have me in the room with other random types.

You know, if there was like a sixth year old you know African American lady and I are playing, are going in for the same role as well as you know, a forty year old you know, Latin guy, and we're all going in for the same kind of particular role. So so I go in for the audition and it's a whole bunch of different people and I just was like, oh my god, oh shit. But what I wanted to really play with this character and I thought would be really interesting is that this guy that just finding in

himself his own awakening. One of the questions that they're asking was the evolution of sin, and I just thought, Oh my god, wouldn't this be I just kept getting

this image of like a dove. This guy was like a dove in this theme park, and so this whole idea of like pure and innocence and then disawakening of this dove that then has to go out there and like, you know, I don't know what he's gonna have to do, but like this innocence and then just this birth that happens, and so taking that with me and then also the the name in itself LUTs, I was like, oh, it's like lots and lots of love, like and so I kind of started to play around with this whole concept

of you know, having an awakening about love, um and in this world where you know, they don't have love, or this idea that they don't know how to feel love or what that is that I have that. So that's kind of what I tried to to hold on too as I as I went through the audition process and I didn't get access to the script um. And even while we were filming, you know, I didn't for the first season, I didn't get access to the script. I'd just be called in for the scenes I needed

to do the days I needed to work. All the stuff was blacked out around me. So you know, I knew that it was written, but literally nothing could see nothing, um. And so I was the guy on set where you know, we we do these rehearsals and and the writers would be there and I'd be like, um, I've got a question. Um, you know, why does it say he grabs the door knob, like because he's got to leave. I'm like, but why did you write that? Like why can't he do this?

Why can't you do that? Why can't he push it? Like I would just always be that guy that's asking all these questions. I'd be like, I'm sorry, I have to because there is no access to any other parts of it. And so many times they they they'd have they'd say, I wish I could tell you, I wish I could tell you, I just I just can't. But but if you feel that you go for it, you just go for it and then the director will will will reel you in in that way. And so that's

kind of how it started. And I would every time I would go into set, two things would happen. My I needed to have an entry point each time. And so I recognized that after we did the pilot that was like a six month break and then we you know, started shooting the series, that it was going to be really sporadic for me. And so I was discovering opera at the time, and it was just something that I

happened to stumble upon. Then started to use opera as my way into two play lot interesting getting into westwell, because they needed to have a feeling of change. Everything just changes the vibration. And so what we shot in Santa Clarita, it took me forty minutes to drive up there. I would listen to opera and it would be a way of changing everything, and then I would receive the

script and go in with that mindset. Wow. Yeah, it's interesting too because the show itself and some of those early scenes in the lab, is that the right word in the lab Lab and the body shop. The body shop, they yeah, yeah, kind of have an operaretic feel to them in a way. And your preciseness of movement within a world of robots basically very interesting, fascinating. Thanks man I, it was you know, so much of that first season everyone was asking am I a host or am my humans?

And you know, I didn't know. The creators wouldn't tell me either. They just played this scene and these are the boundaries, and there's you know, and this is what we're talking about. Um. But one thing that I will never forget is that Jonah would always say to me, Leo, this is entertainment. All of this is happening and all, but at the end of the day, it's entertainment. You've

got to entertain. And so that was my the way I interpreted that was everything that you do on screen has to be breathtaking, has to be super hyper focused, because the scenes that we did were super quiet, were very quiet, and they could be very boring, and they could be, but I needed to find something that that would heighten it. And so that also, to me, was the reason why I used opera as well, because it's life or death. You know, like everything that this guy

that Letts was doing was life or death. I'm a target. Or what I also saw was I now see humanity and love in something else that I've never seen. And so then that is the awakening for me. And once once you see that, you can never unsee that. So that's what I held onto as as I was filming. I love that nominated for a SAG Award for Outstanding Ensemble for a Drama Series. That must have been fun, right, Oh man, it was so fun, And I've got to say,

like it was so wonderful. I worked, you know, a lot with Tandy Way, and her leadership is something I'm never going to forget, like her lovely way of including everyone, of really kind of cheering on everyone. And so when when that nomination came by, I remember she called me and she and she said we did it. We did it, And I was like, wow, like we you did? Like

what are you talking about? Right? But just her way of you know, really kind of bringing everyone in and saying no, it was like all at what we're talking about, like this evolution of sin, of these themes, and that would have you that stuff bled out onto the set like we would talk about humanity. We would talk about

what it means to be human between ourselves. In between tapes, we would talk I was just having kids at that time, and she had kids already, and we would talk about, you know, what it means to now be in the presence of another soul that is here. And I was just trying to figure out what's happening, you know, Like I was like, what are you? What's going on? And this is crazy, you know, and and so a lot of that was also like involved in the scenes, and so it was so wonderful to hear when she called

me and was like, we did it. It It was wonderful. It was great. It was a great feeling. Pretty part of that uh in you hosted HBO celebration of the Asian Pacific American Visionaries Showcase. How cool was that to

be a part of that competition and that celebration. First of all, is wonderful to know that um HBO was backing something like this right um where they're looking for to give opportunities and give breaks to people and and specifically people that of the A p I community so that they can learn to in a way make refined work. Because if you haven't been given an opportunity over the years, you don't know how to out keep elevating the work,

and so it was really important for me too. And I was so flattered that they invited me to be a part of that because I then started to connect with new filmmakers and it's wonderful to be a part

of that. It kind of gives you fresh eyes again in that same way of you know, when I played Ozric for the first time or yeah, I was like, Oh, this is fantastic, Wow, so passionate about this that it was so interesting to be on the other side of that and to see these filmmakers that it knew that you know, just like bursting out of their skin, just wanting to tell these stories and pouring their hard into it. It was great. It was super wonderful and and it

continues on, you know, the HBO Visionaries. I can't wait to see what they're going to do next. Man. Yeah,

let me ask you this. Do you feel a sense of responsibility in terms of representing both the Asian American community the LGBTQ communities through your work or do you feel like you're just a guy playing a character, Like how important is it for you your identity or is it for you just about out the work and trying to normalize those aspects of yourself, you know, I it's a really interesting question that I hope we can continue to be asked over the years, because I think it's

going to change. So back in the day, UM, when I first started, there was no way that you could be someone that is out, that is gay, that also that is a non white male as the lead telling

these non white male stories because everything was centered around that. Um. Now I feel like there is more space for stories to be told that are focused on other narratives as well, And my responsibility within that is to be the best actor that I can be to tell the stories, to give life and breath to those voices that would otherwise

be unheard. But I also recognize that I am in a position where I do need to say something by the very being of who I am, and part of that journey for me has also become in has has happened in becoming a father. My journey in being a father and finding my voice in a community that has been under served and underrepresented, and to normalize that is part of now my journey too, So it's kind of

a two pronged thing that happens. You know, for the longest time, I was only of the thought that you do your work as the actor and nothing else can come into it. You, by your very presence is political. That's that's it, that's your power. And now I feel like it's shifting and it's changing. And definitely you, by your very nature that's still is very much true, is political, by the very nature of who you are in that role, doing the work that you do, bringing the life that

you do. But I also recognize that we have now, because of the technology of these different platforms, these other opportunities to be the face of or to represent another part of the community. And it's important that we do, I think, because it's important that we keep showing these um these different facets and sides of a community that has never been seen and has been marginalized. So I

now do take more responsibility of that. Part of that responsibility is now turned into producing projects, you know, that where I now see opportunities that like the HBO Visionary Awards. But I started to get access to these young filmmakers and these these storytellers where I now am able to say Oh, actually, that's so interesting. I wrote resonate with that I can connect you with these other people to hopefully make space in the entertainment industry for that story.

Um So I think, I think, um, it's only going to keep growing. Um but I do hope that we that you know, we we keep asking this question, and in another ten fifteen years it will be different, right, it'll yeah, it'll be different. It will be evolved. Who knows what. Yeah. I love that you've gotten into producing and you're accessing those young filmmakers that HBO is is highlighting and isn't that kind of the point. So that's

that's that's awesome. I can't say goodbye without mentioning, Maggie, your new show on Hulu with my old pound Angelique cabral Uh. Very different by the way, than a lot of your other work. Romantic Comedy is very different than than West World. I know you play Amy, played by Angelique, her fiance. She is a psychic. My question for you is our psychics real? Oh? Yeah, I think psychics are real.

Let me tell you a man, like there are so many times that that someone has said something and then it happens that you're like That's where some people are just more in tune with that kind of stuff, Like they can say I feel like this is gonna and then it happens, and I'm like, well, that's a little crazy that, you know, every time you say it's going

to happen, it happens. So I've met people like that, but yeah, you know, doing that role on like on Maggie was like such a interesting muscle for me to use, and I wanted to do that. I wanted to swing into comedy, and I wanted to swing into something that didn't necessarily have to be a network show or you know, a streamer show, but I knew I wanted to play in the comedy space. And once I started to read for Maggie and that started to become a reality, it

was such an interesting brain shift for me. You know, I've never been in a show that's just like an episode episodic show. I guess I've never done that before, and it's a different beast and the way that that comedy rooms are run, and and also we shotted during COVID. It was also another weird experience. But I've got to say I really enjoyed it. I I really love that I stretched myself to play that, and I hope it was funny. I hope it was really entertaining for people.

And yeah, I think Maggie is so fun and so great for you to show a different side of yourself. You know, you and Angelique together both you know, amazing in your own ways. Seeing the two of you playing together is super super fun for me. Oh thanks man, it was fun. It's fun to play fund to play with her, fun to play with everyone on that on that show, Um and I and I've got to say I love that. You know, when when I came on

board that show that they were really into the improv. Oh, there was a lot of impro Oh okay, great, Yeah, I was like, great, let's go, you know, um and I then I had to learn the boundaries of that, you know. I was like, oh, okay, you know, Um, you are so delightful and so interesting and I wish you nothing but the best coming up. I know you've got a bunch more projects. You come back and talk to me when Hummingbird comes out, and I look forward to to speaking with you again and to continue to

watch your career. I'm a big fan. So thank you so much, Leo for a man. I'm a big fan of yours too, cheer. Thank you all right, jis mate Leo. Thank you so much for stopping by today. It was so great to get to know you and to hear your story. I can't wait to see what you come out with next. And to you listeners, thanks for tuning in to another episode. I hope you have a fantastic rest of your week. Don't forget to follow us on at Off the Beat, and please go leave us a

review on Apple Podcasts. Give us five stars, make a comment something. I can't tell you how much that helps us, And with that I will bid you all in the words of shakespeare ade. I don't know if that's Shakespeare or not, but we'll see you next time. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia,

Liz Has, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by my great friend Greed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Olandski