Kyle Bornheimer

Off the Beat. As always, I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner, and that was Kyle Bornheimer you've just heard from Today. We're going back to our roots a little bit. Those of you who have listened to this podcast for a while know that before we branched off into Off the Beat, we were telling the story of a little show called The Office US. And I actually met Kyle while filming The Office. He was on season four, episode nine, Local Ad as ad man. But before he was our ad man,

he was an ad man. Yes, there was a time in his life when he was the funny commercial guy. But now you probably know him from playing Doug on Avenue five, being Teddy Wells in Brooklyn nine nine, or as Sam Briggs in Worst Week. Beyond that, Kyle has guest starred in just about every great show from the last few decades, so much so that he seems to be a part of some writer's room jokes. But look, we're gonna get into that. In fact, let's let's get into it right now. Let's bring him on to tell

us all about it. Kyle Bornheimer. Everyone, bubble and sweet I love it. Bubble and squeak on Bubble and squeaker cookie every month left over from the Nabby people. What's up, Kyle? Hey? How are you? I am very very good, even better now that I'm seeing you there. Happy New Year. I don't know when you stop saying Happy New Year? Uh? Maybe today? What's today? Today? One? Oh, that's right, I

would say today. I don't mind a late January. Happy New ye Happy New Year, especially if you haven't seen it. You know, you know it's like, yeah, I think you know you have all the whole month to launch into your new year. After January one, though, then I think it's an awful, awful tun groundhogs y Yeah, yeah, yeah, happy groundhog Day. It's very good to see you. I have so many things that one I have learned about you and rediscovered about you, including our brief time together

on the office. Actually, but I want to start back. Your story seems fascinating to me. You well, first off, you grew up in Indiana. That in and of itself is not fascinating. But it's the opposite. Indiana literally means not fascinating. Yeah, that's the definition of Indiana. No, that's

not true. Well, it's funny because I understand Indiana is not Kansas, but there was a there was a period of time here that I felt like everyone I talked to was like, yeah, I'm from Kansas, and people think, oh, you've got to be from New York or l A or a coast or something. And I was like, yeah, I'm in Kansas, and I wanted to get into comedy. It's like, oh, well, I think, yeah, I mean, anyone living in by the way, Indiana a kid. But first

of all, it is very fascinating. Hey, looking back on it, and I just took my kids there for the first time. They were legit fascinated by it and charmed and love hearing stories, especially then growing up in l A and hearing my stories about growing up in the seventies and eighties and nineties and Mishawaka, Indiana is incredibly exotic and fascinating to them. By the way, they're probably gonna think l A is boring and can't wait to get out

of l A or something. You know. I think wherever you grow up, you sometimes will tend to think less of it for a while, but then you get older you look back and I you know, I really obviously cherish my upbringing there and was really neat to see it through their eyes this past ball we went. So it sounds to me you grew up in Indiana as a as an old soul. I'm told that you were a really big Singing in the Rain fan. Oh gosh,

that's my favorite movie. And this is a that is a French poster for Singing in the Rain, right there, a French poster for Singing in the Rain. My friend got for me actually because I probably because I had nonstopped talking about that movie. Yeah, yeah, and that's kind of beautiful. Yeah, it literally since when you can carry forward, I mean, do you have anything like that either? People you were fans of or movies or music that when you were five it's the same as when you're forty five.

I mean, I think for me it was The Wizard of Oz, but that feels like a cliche. I don't I don't run for me too. Yeah, but I don't remember thinking or knowing anyone as a kid who was a fan of Singing in the Ring. What was it about that? Was it the singing, the dancing, singing and the rain? Uh? But it was both the singing and the ring. You know, it's funny you say that not knowing any kids. There's a family lore that I made.

All my six year old friends at my birthday party watched Singing in the Ring like we were outside doing a bunch of fun stuff, and then I was like, Okay, now it's time to go in and watch this thirty year old movie. It was singing and dancing. And I can tell you all about what I know about Gene Kelly, so I I definitely you know my family, it was

on all the time. I had pretty good movie Buffy and that my Actually my grandparents and parents were necessarily movie bus but they had very good taste and they had had robust movie collections all the time on my my mom's side, her dad and then my dad like loved movies, and like I said, it wasn't like a movie buffy thing where he didn't he couldn't like pull out any trivia. He wasn't. He just loved movies and they happened to have like some pretty good taste in

terms of mainture. And that one was just one that very early on spoke to me. I remember my brothers was some like it hot. That was the one that he bombed onto as a kid. Wizard of Oz obviously was Zombi present in our in our whole household. So

we've watched that. That's remained pretty amazing. But yeah, you know, I think and then whatever, it just sort of became a a staple at our house, and I lived and continued loving and whenever I revisited it is legitimately still an amazingly made movie like it is for some reason of those that era of musicals when they were done, you know, all the time, it does stand out as a really it's an amazing satire on Hollywood. It's just

a very tight script. It's a The musical numbers are beautiful, they're very athletic dance numbers that Donal O'Connor and Gene Kelly do. I just showed my kids. I mean, they've seen it before, but we just rewatched like the Donald O'Connor make them laugh sequence and just they they were talking about, oh my gosh, like Jim Carrey. It's like, you know, it really is that physical comedy that probably I also like the athleticism and the sort of dynamicism

of it as well. Did you now did you sing and dance and acted out or was this just oh I probably did? You know? It's really funny when I moved to l A without any first of all, not to be an actor at all. I moved out to want to be the right and right right here. But on my to do list for whatever reason, was take tap dancing lessons. This was because of my love of gene Kelly. Now, I had not had any rama, musical, any really any arts education at all at this time

in my life. But for whateverything, that was my list, and I did so that. I bought tap shoes, I took, you know, a week's worth of lessons. I fell off on my routine, in my in my in my practice and it just sort of fell and I had no money to be taking task tap dancing lessons the most impractical thing I could be doing at the time, So but I kept the tap shoes. And I remember when I first when I was first dating my now wife

in my tiny little apartment on Dohini. She came over and I was like getting ready before we were going out, and she's like, what's um, what's this? And she had found my tap dancing shoes in my closet, and uh yeah, I had to explain to her, Well, you just started dating a man that, uh whether to be a tap dancer at one point, and I really wish I would get to this day. I still thinking, you know, now heading into the next phase of my life and maybe

I can get that tap dancing thing going again. Yeah, okay, well we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk about your move to l A. But I also was told this that there was a time in your life. Now I don't know exactly when this was that you where you made people call you Steve Martin. Well, yeah, he would be the other thing, you know, I said singing in the rain that since I was five, I've been a fan of and it's never wavered, and and that fandom has been validated by the fact that he is indeed

a genius, you know. So I did, and that came directly from I loved the King tut bit. So that was probably mostly when I was little, from his Sarah Live appearances and probably stand up and then this was the day. This was the era. I know, did your family do this? This was comedy albums where your parents would buy a comedy album and play it in the living room after dinner. And it was Steve Martin and

and Richard. We probably didn't do Richard prior to every year older, but it was that eight, so I'm sure we had an album, but I think it was mainly from Sarah Live skit, which by the way, we're not on like YouTube. The next day, I must have been up, you know, my parents must have been letting me stay up, or maybe there's like a new speechure on it or something, and I saw it and I fell in love with him.

And then once I was a little older and watching all his movies and the jerk and everything just sort of continued that. But I think that was early I think that was late seventies, I was born seventy, probably doing that when I was five years old, like eighty, and so it must have been from his seren Live and like maybe maybe a lot of the Johnny Carson appearances too, because that would have been earlier in the day,

like ten right, maybe right, right right. So you you go to Purdue and at this at this point, you think you're going to do what with your life? Well, it's journalism. Maybe I was Okay, I was already falling in love with movies and had was already. This was the nineties. The important part of this is this was the rise of Tarantino and Jane Camping and and Rodriguez and all the film and Kevin Smith and all the end of film like indie filmmakers. So my sort of

love of classic movies. Um, and then friends introduced me to the of the seventies movies and all that kind of cool Godfather and all that stuff in Chinatown and tax all that stuff. So I was sort of my love movies. I was continuing, and then the nineties hit and then that was our era of the all those young great independent filmmakers. So I was already starting to really fall in love with all that and reading you know, Filmmaker magazine and finding out what was playing in Sundance

and Alleghip. So when I went to Perdue, I was I was kind of just doing what you do after college, where you go to a you know, you go to college, and uh, journalism was on my mind. My dad was for the first five years and of his career was a broadcast, was a was an anchorman. Actually he actually got to exactly round Burgundy. He was very much a seventies anchorman with hilarious um. And then my uncle was

a journalist. I journalism in me and which I loved and still loved journalism, so I was thinking of doing that, and but I was really a chance visit. I visited my sister in l A, fell in love with it, and very shortly after you know, getting into Purdue, I knew I wanted to move out to lia. So I moved out to l A. I went to Indiana University just for a few months the following year, but I lived with friends and didn't go to any classes except maybe my film classes, and then moved out to l

A ninety six. Yeah. Wait, so I gotta ask you this because I think that we're unique I had the same experience, which was, you know, I had been living a bunch of places and not really spending any time in l A. And I came out to l A for a visit and fell in love with it. What was it for you about about l A? About southern California or whatever that that that attracted you so much? Remember, I fell in love with as well immediately. I think

it was the big city. I think I was hankering for a big city, that it was the film and television capital. I I definitely, probably to a false romanticized that the instry, which is really fascinating what we've kind of learned the last five years on how flawed now, especially during that time, was an incredibly flawed way. We were doing a lot of things with this sort of tyrannical swimming with sharks kind of producer mentality that was

going on and all that stuff. But that's said, there's a lot of beautiful things and wonderful things about this industry, and I think we're probably the best place that's ever been in terms of, uh, you know, the good people, you know, um um working with each other. So but I definitely romanticized the industry. I loved the big city. It was very affordable, as as big cities go. Compared to New York and San Francisto and even Chicago, l

A was the affordable place. Now, this sadly, very sadly changed in two thousand eight or so with the housing crisis, and now we're in a real housing crisis here, in a rental crisis now. But at the time it was affordable. So I was very doable. I was I was half full of ambition and little small town guy in a big city and also really scared that I couldn't do it. And so l A was a good thing. Is a that where I wanted to be, what I wanted to

do was here. But also it felt more affordable and like a big suburb rather than a than big city at first to me. So, um, yeah, what did you fall in with? What? What was what you know you were from? I was from Georgia. I mean I traveled around. I you know, I had spent some time in the Midwest and the Northeast, and I mean I had a friend who was living in the Westwood adjacent area, and there was just, I don't know, there was something wholly unique to me about I remember I remember, I remember,

I remember a coffee bean. I was like, he was huge in what is this magical place where you could get freezy coffee drinks all day long and sit outside this gorgeous weather with the students walking around and all these beautiful people. I don't know it was fully romanticized to me, but I remember just being like, oh, yeah, this I could, I could do this, And it's it's true what you say. Actually, Like I don't know that it was cheap, but you could get so much more

for the money. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like, like you know, in New York you would be in a tiny, tiny studio apartment and a seventh floor walk up and you might spend the same amount of money, but you would have you know, a full bedroom and a balcony. You could be outside or a little yard even and have sort of room. Yeah. Yeah, um when you moved now, you know you say you were romanticize the industry. Were you thinking you were going to get into film and television at this at this point? That

were you just more moving? That was the plan as a later director, Yeah, yeah, I mean the plan in the very unformed, very green plan, and the and the plan that ultimately and unsurprisingly did not work, was that I was simply kind of work at a video score, write a script, and get discovered. I mean that with that, I don't know why I didn't just work out. That seemed to be what everyone was doing at the time,

and I guess I just missed that. Bote Um. Now, I was, you know, committed to working hard and learning. And I made a short film, I remember, with on film, not on digital. This is before right as digital is coming out. So I like spent money on like at sixteen million or I guess short ends, which is like where you would buy like what people didn't use on their movie, their short ends of their film. And I made like a nice little movie and I spent everything I had and with broke doing it like like a

short film. I did all the things that I thought I should be doing that I was just too young and too undeveloped to really navigate that world with any real um expertise. You know, I just wasn't really ready. I'd come out sort of too soon probably and a

little bit unpolished. So the plan was very much too to get into writing and directing and and so yeah, I kind of pivoted acting four or five years in when I was like at an acting class that I had kind of taken as a quote unquote as a director, I think I was like, well, now I should learn how actors work, since I'll be working with them so much, you know now, and this is a vomit chubmic, isn't that right? You're very good? Right? Yeah, I mean, look, I I try as the best I can. Yes, And

she is a very big acting director. At the time, it felt like everybody was taking classes from Yeah she was. Yeah, and I had gone through all the levels kind of that. She had a couple of lower levels that you take first, and I kind of graduated onder hers and I loved it, and yeah, I saw kind of a path. It was. I really needed to be sort of jostled out of my poor plan, and acting gave me like a vision, like a road in front of me that I saw,

which is very simple. I mean, the one thing I had going for me was I was very patient, like you probably know, as friends sort of start to be like maybe this isn't for me, or the industry starts to, you know, take its toll on you. Early on. For whatever reason, I was like pretty much in it for

the long haul. A. I had no other I had no plan B. But I was also like comfortable, like taking my time with it, like being a starting artist for a certain degree in my twenties and and wanting to actually get good at it, and like, Okay, I just need a commercial agent. I remember just being like, all I need is a commercial agent. I didn't want to get a commercial yet. I was like, have an agent, and then after that that agent will maybe hopefully get

me an audition. And I just remember being very clear like I was. I think that looking back, I was very relieved that I finally had like a plan that I could at least succeed or fail at whereas before that I was kind of flailing. And so I was like, Okay, well this is a plan. It's really seen other people do this plan, and let's see if I can navigate this road. And if I don't, then I'll have a

little better sense that I've tried and not been able to. Yeah, I want to ask you about that, because I don't think I've talked to anybody about that. I want your opinion. What do you think it is that that made you stick with it? When so many don't write I mean, because he is a there there is a huge group of people who come out to do exactly the same thing you did, or let's just say, they think that they're going to be actors and then it just doesn't happen.

Do you feel like it's worth a work ethic or stick to ito nous? I mean, I know, I'm thinking of one in particular, a friend that I came up with and it was very good and work just as hard as anyone, and had had the talent to the very least have a solid career, but also had like a really good plan B. If he didn't didn't work out or just had a skill set, I shouldn't say that.

I don't think he was relying on his plan B frankly, because he had to kind of go back and really like go to school and kind of actually make a hard choice to sort of pivot um. But he had a skill set, and I think in that instance, I think he just was looking at the rest of his twenties and looking at his life and getting started the way he wanted and knew like, Okay, yeah, there's a chance this could happen. Are also looking at a road ahead of you, and you're seeing a lot of different examples.

You're seeing people that have like maybe held on too long. You're seeing people that like hit right away, and you're kind of suspicious of that. You're like, well, I don't want to I don't want to think that that's gonna happen to me. So somewhere where maybe I'm in the middle, maybe I'll I'll start having a career and it becomes very practical, right and you know, I'm sure you know this. The dream aspect of it goes away, and the idea that you just want a sustainable career is really what

nineties seven percent of us are. I mean, the the the wonderful stars out there who are able to pick their own projects and kind of design their own careers and make an amazing living at it, or who are really comfortable being bohemian, like I don't know, work when you know, whenever I want to, and I don't need to make any money at it, and I'll live on

a tree, you know what. There's like that the rest of us are like, well, at some point, yeah, I came out here with all this passion and dream of what I want, but I'm good at this, but now I need to build a career and if I have a family, I need to be able to you know. So I think you start to put that together, and when you are doing that your mid to late twenties,

you start to make decisions for yourself. And it's literally different for everybody, and it's you know, Jack Lemon used to say this, and I'm sure you and I are probably perfect examples to say the same thing. Plenty of people I came up with that were better than me, that we're that are continue to be better than me, that worked harder, that came from a better theatrical background, um, and other people that worked that that's that. Thank god they figured out a way to get out because they

were never going to they did. They either didn't have the talent to work ethic or they had stars in their eyes in the wrong way. So it kind of is all types. And I think, for whatever reason me, I do think of some of it was a desperation. I hadn't really no backup, but I was feeling confident enough. I think at the earliest part of my career, I was feeling confident enough. I was getting and it really is because I was getting a lot of commercial work.

And once that I started to see that people were responding to what I was doing in that format, I was like, okay, I just knew okay, step by step, Now let me see if I can get some TV work and stuff and small TV work and each thing. But I plenty of crises, plenty of personal crisis in my late thirties and late twenties and early thirties before I was able to have a sustained career of life. If I hold on too long and I don't get something that sort of gets me to the next level,

this is gonna get scary for me. This is psychologically and financially in everywhere else you know, Well, Kyle is being modest. There was a period of time that Kyle was on television more than Ellen de Generous Uh commercials Galore, Geico, Staples, Cores, Light t Mobile, Stanley Uh. He made a mission could Troll in a Man's Bowels where I improvised the line code brown. Yeah, very basic, but very I committed to it. Yeah. Now were you at this time? Would you get recognized

on the street for your commercials? You must have, I think so. I think there was a couple that you know would play very nationally. The team Mobile one was the was the one that actually that other people saw it got me a big TV thing right after that.

But yeah, I think there was an article down are very very randomly and Entertainment Weekly did an article called the called the thirty second Man about this very thing like like that got Yeah, that was really I just actually I was going through a bunch of mementos the other day and saw the article, which was really fun to see. But yeah, no, very fortunate and very um to the point of like I had seen a plan for myself. One thing I did during that time is

worked at a commercial casting studio. So I don't know if you have two hundred South Librea. Of course it was the hub literally central in the city, and you had eight or nine cast directors working at this place. You would see everyone in town there every day. You and I probably saw each other before we knew each other, and I worked there. So when you would sort of work for the cast directors and there was a there was a job that you were right for, they say, O, Kyle,

come in on this PEPSI thing or whatever. So you just were around it all day and exposed. So I remember that that was a big key to me, sort of like staying in the game, you know, in a really smart way, like just to sort of be around it all the time. Does two hundred Southubria still exists? I don't. Well, I think it does actually, And whether

they may have moved. There's a great cast director that cast me in so many of those named Ross Lacey, and I think he yeh, and he might have moved it or or sold it or but he was excellent and really instrumental. If you're listening, Ross, thank you for my career to hundred two hundred South Lebrea. For those of you listening, you have you have to understand that it's the craziest thing. And this is like there's no parking, very little parking, impossible to park. And you would enter

the building up a tiny stairwell. I can remember it like it was yesterday, and you would go up this tiny stairwell and as you're going up this like two flights of stairs, you would pass seventeen actors that you knew kind of and then you would get to the top and there were yeah, well you probably know better than me, but like yeah, eight or nine rooms off

of a giant bullpen. The bullpen a huge like almost warehouse, either either actors or two It was like like you and two other people because at the end of the day or there were eighty just aspiring everything. Yeah yes, and waiting to go in one room and like yes, So emodium was one room, PEPSI was another room, T mobile was another, and you and they would be inside and the thing this God, you there were no chairs.

When there were was there were carpeted blocks right like huge like uh huge areas that were carpeted that you would just sort of like kind of sit on, I guess, and very uncomfortably held elbow to elbow with everybody else, everybody running their little lines. They would you would you would, you know, it's that surreal thing where it's like you were a type and so you would go and you

would see a bunch of views there. You would just see I would see a bunch of kyles there, you know, either new kyles I've never seen or other kyles that like, hey, what's up, Brad, Like we always see each other at these I mean, this is the head shot days. Like you you would have your head shot probably when I started Black and White head shot. So I remember the big, big switch to color. So and then when you got

little hallway. Yeah, you would see an actor in a hurry, or an actor that just was piste off about their audition, and an actor who felt good or with an actor who had the greatest attitude, always like like he's always in a good mood. You know he'll be fine, you know, like you would see every type of actor coming down

that those stairs. Yes, no, it's totally true. Or for me, I think always like parking semi legally and it was just like I just needed to get back out to my car quickly as possible, so just like, Hi, Hi, how's it going? Club at the time, I remember having the club on the steering wheel, which locked the steering wheel? Did I put the club on? As you're so many and you know, lovely people that would work there, but also overworked people, and so you didn't always get the

most polite room. In commercially, your casting is normally a very warm, polite rooms in most in most instances, but because of the speed of it and because you're working with like eight hundred different clients in those rooms, they could be rough, rough rooms in terms of how you felt as an actor you could get shuffled in there and kind of feel a little like mistreated. And this

was part of the thing. It wasn't like a horrible mistreatment, but it was just like, if there's one aspect of casting that had that, it was the commercial and even shooting commercials sometimes everything else you're pretty well taken care of, especially with cast. And I always tell actors that who are nervous about auditions, it's like they want you to do well. They want you to be the answer to

their problem. They want you to come in and surprise them or be exactly what they were looking you know, so they're rooting for you. Every room you go into is rooting for you. They don't want an awkward experience either.

They want their answers solved. And so yeah, yeah, but to your to your point in terms of commercial I've never really thought about this before, but I think when you're dealing with brands, you're dealing with at times you know, the executives, and they're not they're not artists, so they're not looking to take care of you. And I remember probably feeling like you would enter the threshold of the room from this, you know, there's eight people bustling around.

Your name would be called. You would walk through the threshold, and at times they would look at you and then just immediately looked down like you are clearly not the look that they want. It doesn't matter what you say or do, because it's all about this look that they're looking for. And then you have to kind of continue for the next few minutes knowing this is just not

happening and that yeah, exactly. Um. Early on you break out of doing commercials, you start doing some guest star roles, and my research has indicated one of the first scripted shows that you did not the first, but one of was a little television show called The off Us. I'd have to look into that and see what was it called again? The Office? Yeah, Office, talk to me about the audition for that. Had you met Alison Jones before or was that new? Was this? Did this had anything

to do with the commercial stuff? Because this was a local ad where Michael tries to create a local ad and your ad man, Um, let's go to a clip.

J Yeah, it is a brilliant and I'm sure your fans the minute you said the local ad episode, they know exactly what you're talking about because it's hilarious and that was that was so fun and that the show was that season three, four four, episode nine of season four of season four and um, Jason who had just right, Jason Reitman, and he had just directed Juno, and Juno was not out yet, but it was getting like festival

love and stuff. And I remember him like jokingly putting Juno stickers all over the set because he was like, yeah, yeah, Um. So Alison Jones is and you know this completely responsible for so many people's careers. My you know, one of the handful of cast directors that are just like my guardian angels in this business and who I constantly you know, just thanking because she Now it's interesting, was that what years that two thousand seven, this would have been oh nine,

probably oh eight oh nine. It might she might have just been starting to get me, because around that time she cast me in a few things and then and then since then, I guess that has been just a great booster in my career, so wonderful. So this might have been one of the first things with her. One thing I did around that time is I worked. I

I did this thing called real Prose. Do you remember Real prose or any of those casting workshops, and they had a somewhat of a controversial moment because they was considered paying for auditioning and so, but it really it was like a workshop and then and once a week or so they'd bring casting directors in and you could actually audition for them in this workshop, in this class. I was doing that a lot around that time. I

actually got a few little things from that. I don't think Allison was, so I actually don't remember the audition process, doubt very highly. I was. It was like an offer, so I must have auditioned for it. And remember I remember the striking thing about that was like, oh, you guys, like most of the cast stays in on all scenes, so like actors always kind of like, oh, I'm not in this scene, great, like it's great, But in the office they're like, no, you guys need to be in

the background. And I were you. Do you remember that scene by any chance, or or that episode if you would have been back in that because that probably we might have met that day. You guys were all, yeah, I'm I'm sure that we did. I do remember I went back and looked at some of the stuff in preparation for talking to you. But it was a crazy thing because yeah, like you said, we were all all there almost all the time. So unless you know, you had some characters who went to a restaurant or did

something else, we were all sort of sort of there. Um, do you have any memories of being there or of Steve. It was one of those things, Yeah, where you this happens sometimes, and I'm sure in the office you guys had this all the time. You kind of get the best seat because there was so much observing in that show, so much time where you're just sort of like you're like, Okay, this person gets to do their thing now, and I'm literally just reacting and Steve, I just remember being in

the presence that we were. I was already a fan of his, and where I just got to sit across from him. I just fed him a couple of lines and he got to you know, he had a scripted version, and you know, you get that, and then when once that was gotten, he was like go off on his own. And the whole bit is that he keeps building this ridiculous commercial idea. So it's really like a comedians dream, Like all right, give me a couple of takes where I just get to build the most ridiculous ambition for

this this local commercial. So I just remember being charmed by that very hum humble and quiet. You know, you're being a guest star, co star and those things you really don't want to step on anyone's toes. So I I just sort of like a fly on the wall, but also like you're always pinching yourself in this business that you're getting to do it. So it was like, I hope I'm prepared enough to do that what I got to do, and also kind of enjoy it while

I'm doing it. This is really exciting, and so I just remember kind of just sort of enjoying getting to watch him work, and also great professionalism by all of you, and just like camaraderie. So I remember that a couple of you guys, and I'm not sure if you were

like we're playing like fantasy football. I think it was like Dwight and Jim, we're like, but in real life they were like in between takes, they were they were like looking at their fantasy scores together, and I just saw like your sweet friendship friendliness and it was just me, Yeah, we just recorded for this our super Bowl episode where we had are a commissioner on and uh we just finished our eighteenth year doing the Office Fantasy Football League,

so great. Yeah, those times we might have still been drafting on a yellow legal pad. But maybe I do remember that looking down, or maybe he was using a laptop. Yeah, I don't think the phone smartphone quite yet? Yeah, no, not quite. Um, you mentioned before you kind of get a big break here. You get cast as the lead in Worst Week for CBS and this was because of a commercial you were in. Is this how this started? Yeah?

I mean that was like a big loan process. I auditioned with a bunch of people, and then the project Michelle thro a year or something. And in the meantime, the great Jay tars As, the creator of several shows I think, including The Merry Time and War Show, was the father of Matt Tarsas, another brilliant mind in this business who is a show creator and TV writer. And Jay told his his son, Hey, Divy seen this commercial.

This This is like probably the energy you're looking for for Worst Week, and and Matt was like, I think I've seen that kid. I think he might have come in last spring. So they brought me in again, and thankfully I did the whole process of coming in a couple of times, then testing in front of the CBS executives and probably read three or four times to get it. But without that phone cam, without that commercial or I

wouldn't have had that chance, which which was extraordinary. And CBS wasn't really doing the single camera comedies at the time, so this was their big swing with with single camera comedies and lovely, amazing experience all around. This really was happy and Matt Tarsus is amazing, and it was great Cat working with Smith and was still friends with now and and uh it was it. Yeah, it was great.

It was based on a British show which this is two thousand and eight, The Office is taking off, and I wondered, I wondered about that, like CBS taking a run at single camera British adapted shows. Well, yeah, you know, I think you're exactly right. Yeah, I think there was a lot of that going on, and looking back, you're

at it hadn't really pieced it all together, but there was. Yeah, that was definitely that, and they weren't really they had all their multi cam stuff working really well for them, so Ultimately we got to shoot I think eighteen episodes and they aired I think fourteen to them or so, which for me was I remember a lot of people being, you know, feeling really bad for me, Like when we kind of had the feeling that it was going to get canceled, and I was like, when you're coming up

in l A, every single small step is like a huge deal that you are proud of yourself for, you know, like that, you know, I got into audition for a pilot. That's huge. Oh, the pilot is actually go I got a part in the pilot. That's good. Oh, your pilot didn't go to series. I don't know that the next one, you know, but I'm in the game. You know. It's like, so I remember being sad that I wasn't gonna get to work with Aaron Hayes and Matt and Kurtwood and

Nancy and all. You know. Fred Willard played my dad in that show. I mean, I couldn't. There was no world where there was anything bad about you know. Yeah, it's it's sad to lose it, but like I got to have Fred Willard play my dad, you know, and he actually looks like my dad in real life. So it's it's just sort of like looks like yeah, yeah, yeah, its like Ron and friend. You're like, Kyle, your dad looks like too many people also weirdly and Thomas he

kind of looks like Steve Martin too. Actually there's a right behind me. It was a picture of my dad from his days back in the U in South and WSBT news. Um. But yeah, I mean it was just you know, getting a big show is is life changing. You know. Do you feel like that gave you confidence moving forward? I mean having that experience of doing that that same role every day sixteen eighteen weeks or whatever it was it did. It gave me a couple of different things with that. It taught me both good and

bad about my own approach to that stuff. I really wore myself out with it and I and I had a very specific way that I wanted to like do the physical comedy and and I was it was my first time like being that big on a show or being like the lead of a show, and I think I put a lot of pressure on myself. I had fun. I didn't feel like stressed out or nervous. I was like I had fun, But I was like very like, do you know did we get that? And should we do another one? I have another you know, I didn't

understand TV. I didn't understand that. You know, these directors had a shotlist they needed to get through, you know. For someone I thought, like somebody that came from like wanting to be a director, I would be much more understanding about that. But I was like, can we do twelve more takes? Please? Because I think you know? So I think I was very much like and I was like, I didn't get it. You know, I slipped, but it looked like I knew I was gonna slip. I want

to make it more surprising when I slept whatever. So I was very kind of demanding on myself and then ignorance of the process. So I feel like if I went back in time, I would just be a little more like, oh, everyone has a job to do here, and I need to make sure that I'm not like stepping on toes. So I think I just learned how to be a little bit of a better professional, and that came also from working with people and watching them. Kurtwood Smith was was excellent to just sort of being

a great model for how to conduct yourself. And it probably took me a few years to learn how to like get what I wanted to get across in the in the earlier takes, you know, it's quicker, especially for television, so that I didn't feel like I left anything out there, and I did feel like I was slowing anything down, because you never want to be the person that's slowing

anything down. I always like tell people like kind of learned early on what everyone has to do on set and stuff, so that you kind of understand how the whole production works as a whole. So I think just that learning experience was key. Um, and then knowing that, yeah, I just taught you like what you need to get ready, Like, oh, if I'm gonna do this kind of joke, this is the kind of preparation I need for it. So yeah,

such a learning experience. You have guest starred on an incredible number of what I'm just gonna call today to make it simple, Hall of Fame shows. So we're gonna play a new game games with Kyle. This is going to be first thing that comes to mind when you think of your time working on the following shows. Are you ready? Yeah, this is called first thing that comes to mind slash Hall of Fame with Kyle. Here we Go,

How I Met Your Mother? Hybrid no live audience, so they they that was the big thing with that um is most of it comes always at live audience, and they invented this. This didn't invent it, but they really did where you didn't always have a lot of audience. And I remember loving that because I get very nervous with live audiences, and I still it's funny. I don't remember the lines right now, but it's something about pregnancy, and I just remember I remember sitting there on that

couch doing that bit. Also same same thing, very proud and excited I had a job and like not wanting to screw it up, breaking bad. The greatest thing in the world. He is amazing. So when you talk about like a model for professionalism, he is the exact model. He got. This is their first season. It wasn't big, No one knew that this was gonna be the iconic show was. But he got a gift for me, Like

the minute I walked in my trailer. He was just so accommoding to everyone, was just so lovely with everyone. The whole set was doing like something I think because we're talking. We're talking about Brian Cranston, right, Sorry, he bought you a gift? Yeah, yes, he gets everybody that comes on that set of gift like a really nice welcome gift and maybe even a goodbye gift. And I don't think I was there for more than two days, and so he just very I know, now you feel bad,

don't you? Like now I'm like, shit, I don't know if I've got enough gifts for people I don't know, and even family members, I don't know if I've got enough gifts for And this guy's getting No, he's like and he's just so present to everybody while doing these amazing like okay action and then he has to do this guttural heat emotional performance and it's not like he

like snaps out of it right away. He just he knows how to Like he's just kind and wonderful profession He's one of my best models I ever saw for like how to conduct yourself. So that's what I remember. And then just also it was the writer's strike, so I think were finishing production like the day I was leaving because they had the writer's strikes. So I think that first season had less episodes than the other ones. And I just remember looking back being like, oh, no

one knew at this time. Everyone had confidence in the show, and it looks great and it was really fun and everyone I kind of knew it was good material and no one knew it was going to become, you know, one of the greatest shows of all time. That is insane. That is insane. I'm going to share with you a story. I don't know that i've shared this story. If I have listeners, then go back. I don't think I have.

I was invited to join the Television Academy and I was like, well, I'm I'm in the Academy now and I need to do my part. And I remember that year for the Emmys, I signed up to be a special judge on basically everything that I could, so like, I think I wasn't allowed to do anything for comedy. That was it. So it was like Best Actor in a Drama, Best Supporting Actor in a Drama, Best Get

Star in a drama. By the way, what this means is you have to watch a tremendous number of hours of television and then you guys are then put the pool together that then has made it in denomination. No, So I think what it is is we were given ten. So the member the membership at Hole had sort of gone down to ten. And what I knew was this. What I knew was I had never heard of Breaking Bad, and I knew that there was a huge percentage of

the membership that had never heard of Breaking Bad. So to get down to that ten, I wasn't sure how Brian Cranston at that moment had gotten to be one of those ten, just because when when you're in the academy and you vote, you just vote for what you know. I had not heard of this show, and I was

studied television. So I got the ten tapes and I mean tremendous performances from those days, all of them, and then you had to rank them one through ten, and they used that in combination in with the larger academy to decide who wins the Emmy. And I watched those ten tapes and for those of you listening right now, we're not talking to Brian, but that performance in the pilot, it was the pilot was so unbelievably amazing. I mean I was blown away. I hadn't heard of the show.

I hadn't seen the show. I went immediately and found all of the episodes to watch at that moment. And he won the Emmy that year because not just did I put him one, everybody who was in that pool had to put him one because there just wasn't there could not have been enough people like in other words, as a member, I hadn't voted for him because I

hadn't seen the show. I didn't I didn't know. Anyway, I will never forget watching that performance for the first time and and seeing that and the fact that he was so kind and nice. He directed on the office as well, and I got to, um, but that's amazing. Uh, this is not this is not turned into the rapid fire game that I intended. But anyway, that well, that was my fault. I tend to get very long than did on just no impact answers. Give me one more. I'm gonna try to give one. I'm gonna try to

give a quick answer. Well, no, don't do that, because then I ended up in Eric's lighting three takes in a row when he's very polite and and just sort of politely asking me to get out of his life. H I love that, alright. A couple more West World Western. If you ever get a chance to do a Western, do it. It's the greatest thing in the world. You get to clunk around in boots and the dust kicks up in your face and you feel like you're literally

back in time. I loved it also Season one, which we had no idea what we were doing, right, I liked that show season one a lot. Modern Family, Oh yeah, giggling all the time because it's just there everyone, and

it is so funny. And the concept was funny, which is that Jesse thinks I he was like he flirted with me when we were teenagers and he thought that I was straight, and he thought he was being too like forward with me, and he wanted to apologize, and I'm like, oh no, I was, yeah, like I just wasn't into you, and I every time that that part. It was just a great concept. Um. And also I just remember that they and you guys probably got in

this late in the office. They shot like eight nine hour days, which is if there anyone out there that that is unheard of in this business, but which should be more normal at least of you know, nine ten hour day rather Okay, last one, better call Saul revisiting eight years by My Bath after Breaking Bad. Yeah, Better Call Saul. That was another great one where I got a great of you for the second time. I had

Better Call Saul. Where was it the first time? I forget? Um, I'm at a bar and I just get to watch Odin Kirk do his thing. He had like a big monologue, I think, and it's just another thing where I like and then I have to come in and say like two lines for this first scene. I just remember being like, man, better Call Saul had already been kind of a legendary show. Break Better already been here show, So now I'm just

on this like legendary set. I think they had won the Enmy the year before, and he gave like a speech to the crew, like really nice speech to the crew, and I just remember pinching myself and feeling fortunate to be back on that. And then in the A d R session where they needed it, like the after the well have you explained to you? Um? They remember them, They're like, you just be an asshole, like off camera, I want him to be reacting to you being an asshole.

And and I just remember, like they said, they said, say the worst and most awful things you can say. And so I just remember doing that, sitting in a in a sound booth in North Hollywood, just coming up with the Vince had written a few awful things for me to say, and just like, I don't know if I hope or don't hope that that summer is still out there. Um, I guess a couple more, but these are more discussions Rest Development. You played the character Shannon Ryan.

That's your wife's name. That's my wife's Did you just choose it? No? Uh? What's his name? The creator of the show? Oh, my names are escape give me today. Um, when you when you edit this, go, when you go back, just his name in my voice, my face right away. It's funny because my boys have been watching the Rest of Development lately. So they were friends. So my wife worked,

they worked together. She's an executive now at Disney. At the time when they were doing the Rest of she was an executive on that show, and she was friends with with him, and he thought it would be funny to call me Shannon, right to call me her name? Um, okay, last one, this one, We've got to dive into this. I've got to understand bow Jack Horseman now you weren't in this. You you have not appeared in this to my knowledge. But your name is I need to understand

how this happens? Well, yeah, this basically I have to say the line to let people know. The line is Pickles about dinner tonight? Am I any network with the show starring Kyle Bornheimer? Because I have to cancel? Now do you know these guys? How did this? How did this start? And why why are there so many inside jokes about you in in show? What happened? Is this flattering? I don't understand it's it Remember earlier when I said, Hey, I'm just happy to be here. Um uh so, yeah,

there's how what's the best Listen? That is a great joke? First of all, objectively, that is a killer joke. And yes, there was a time when I would get cast and and frankly listen, I work hard. I think I do well what I do? Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean I've always I'm definitely, at least for a long time in the network side of network companies, but definitely known for like my shows would only be on for

a year, happy year, sometimes four episodes. Um again, I do go back to like I'm just happy to be here. And I know as long as my career can keep going. You know, there's no guaranteed you're gonna get on some big, long lasting show. And I know that. But that probably sounds like I'm trying to, like, you know, not tell people how hurt I am by it. But I don't know, I do. I feel like I have a pretty zen

perspective on it, and I just know how hard it is. Yeah, So I don't know if the main takeaway is that is a very funny and well crafted joke, and so I'm happy to be a part of it. Well, I mean, look I read I was like, what in the what in the hell is this? And then I was not sure that we were going to discuss it today. But after our conversation, I felt like I felt like it was a conversation we could have. Do you know our net or do you know any of those guys I do?

One of my earliest jobs they would never remember, but was Blades of Glory. Wait wait, I had a quick little saw them. Yeah, yeah, that was my first first movie. I think ever. Um had one line, which is it's Europe or something like that. Our kids now go to school together. I don't think there might be one writer on that staff. I think that at that time that

might have known me. I almost hope it wasn't, though I hope it was like so known that just like, yeah, you know, I just saw a trailer for a show with Kyle Brnomer. Let's what's the bet that this is gonna be on six episodes? To uh? You know? I

I love most of the show. Did I didn't want show during that period that was is I mean, worst week had a great as it had a great like little cult following ample, but also this show Perfect Couples, which was lovely and I had a wonderful time which was a really neat experiment, you know, like I've never

had a bad experience in this. If you're working in this industry, you know, and you have, you know, halfway decent attitude about it, you're usually having a good time because at the very least you're working with really they're nice, kind people, are incredibly talented people usually both and you're sometimes legends. You know, I could be on a bad show that I'm suddenly like working with some legend and I'm just thrilled. Brooklyn nine nine Teddy wells with my

old buddy creator Mike. Sure, how did you get involved with that show? Did you know? Mike? Yeah, since I mean, uh we we we now we are kind of neighbors and and our our our boys are are really good friends and we're sort of family friends with Mike and j J. And at the time, I don't think I, um, we knew each other very well, if at all, because that was probably starting to win. And I can't remember if that was an audition or an offer, but either way, it was perfect for me. That was right in my

wheel er. So just like a goofy, overly sort of boring dude, you know, probably typecast. Um. Yeah, that one was very easy from the perspective I I kind of knew exactly what I want to do with it was written in a way that you know that shows written so well, like they great secret sauce in that show.

Um also works very quick. And I remember a great group like you guys, just a great group of people, and you know, it's Sony Mike and this was in the office, and this was in Parks and Wreck and then and I've heard us talked about a little bit. They kind of ushered in the but sometimes it's called non conflict comedy, which is like, we grew up in very conflict e comedy, and that seemed to be the rule.

Like you had to have two opposite roommates that we're always arguing, or you had to have like the asshole at the office that was like saying sexist ship to the secret You know, there was always like and I think we've just been with you all of a sudden of like the late nineties early two comedies, there was like a different way in the comedy. And I think that's what like this community of funny people where funny

things happen. It's not like because that sort of conflict comedy doesn't work, but it just like a new style and I think he ushered that in and I think it also just created I think this amazing camaraderie with those big casts of eight, nine, twelve people that those shows have. Wow, that is such an interesting point that

I have not thought about that before. But you're observational or whatever what you would call it, but it's also like more character based, you know, and you may have idiosyncrasies it's a polite way to say it, or you know, specific character traits that that might be oppositional in a way, but like, yeah, if you think about you know, Dwight or Ron Swanson or those characters, that, yeah, it's not

it's not like totally oppositional in a way. It's much more ensemble specific characters who are interacting together and quite frankly, most of the time, there's a there's a genuine basis of love and ensemble togetherness that's sort of is behind all of it. It's very interesting. Yeah, I think that quality. Yeah, it's hard to sort of like put my finger out. It definitely was a switch and just a new color to television comedy that was celebrated and fostered in that time.

And I think Mike was instrumental that and Greg and all those guys. Yeah, yeah, you've been very busy lately. Avenue five, your interstellar comedy alongside Hugh Lowry and my old buddy Zach was fun show to be a part of that. Crazy, fun and and crazy. And Zach is, as you know, one of the great comedic minds and just minds in general. And that guy's mind is he's another one where we all just sit like, okay, Zack, it's just you know, it's that the cameras on Zach

and like, what's he gonna do? Um, And yet we're in a spaceship all time, this crazy, humongous spaceship with a working elevator, like and you know, our Madi Nichi just sort of composing and conducting this complete chaos with these really subtle sort of social commentary underneath that. All of us about the fourth episode, we're like, oh, wait,

he's talking about Brexit. We were all like, this is like just this was you know, we didn't even understand like one of the great satirists of our time was like doing a satire again. We're like, oh, this seems like funny goofy space companies. Oh no, he's actually he's talking about how like the rise of tyranny in in uh,

some of the major nations in the world right now. Um, so like we actually got you know, he got to dig deep and living in London was beautiful and and uh, Jessica said Claire, who's a great friend of mine, played We played a husband and wife for like the thirteenth time on screen, weedless love playing off each other, and um, Hugh Laurie is exactly the the amazing sophisticated brit that you think he is, and drive a motorcycle and and

we're all kind of in awe of him. Well, every single person has a crush on Hugh LORI uh so, yeah, incredible. Also high school out now, were you a Teagan and Sarah fan? Marginally, I've since become much more. But I I knew like about five of their bigger songs, walking to the Ghost and a couple of their hits and

the Lego song. I knew about and and knew them and always see them like on festival posters when I was I was looking at festivals, so but really thrilled to sort of dive deeper into their work, which is incredibly rewarding. Like they they've had ten or twelve albums the last twenty years and so they have a library of songs. It's really good. So that was fun and getting to know them and reading that book about them, that experience was a great clean of all Or Cantrell,

who created the show. And that's I'm sort of rambling now just because I can't think of any other words besides fantastic and awesome. But it's it's the nineties set in the nineties, I love the nineties. I kind of considered myself an expert on the nineties and sort of like that indie flavor of the nineties, any movies, any music.

I was kind of that kid and this sort of minds that world, that part of the nineties, but in a in a from a perspective that I was so ignorant of, like embarrassingly so two girls, you know, coming of age and coming out and discovering music for themselves, and in a still pretty close minded nineties. Even though we kind of considered nineties the beginning of sort of modern progressive out too, it's about these things, it was

still pretty close minded. So sort of seeing that the nineties from that perspective compared to the perspective I had was eye opening. And I'm so glad I got to get that in my life. That's awesome. Kyle. Thank you so much for coming on sharing your story. I'm a big fan of yours. I'll watch you do basically anything, not everything, but basically everything. And I appreciate you coming and uh and taking some time with me today. And I found you you have opened my eyes in a

new way. I'm super super fascinated by this. Idea. I'm gonna be thinking about it later today, This idea of of the shift in comedy and the paradigm that those guys changed. That's and you're very interesting and you're a delight and I'm not even gonna just say hey anytime. Please please have me back, all right after I had I will canceled shows under my belt and U yes, I will for sure. Thank you, Kyle. Of course, this was great. Thank you so much, Kyle. It's so good

to see you again. Thank you for stopping by. I cannot wait to check out your new show, High School. And to those of you out there listening, thank you as well. I'm gonna see you next week with another guest with office roots, Deep deep office routes. Until then, why don't you go out there and for yourselves and for me, just just have a fantastic week, all right, We'll see you soon. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer

Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary and our intern is Sammy Cats. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Bratt