Jenna Elfman

and I am an actress ever growing. Here we go. Hello, Hello, gentle listeners, and welcome back to my favorite podcast, Off the Beat. I am, as always, your host, Brian Baumgartner. Now, as you know from the introduction, you've just heard, the incredible Jenna Elfman is joining me on the podcast today.

She has been in a lot of your favorite shows and movies, Fear, the Walking Dead, Big Stone Gap, Friends with Benefits, but perhaps most famously, she starred as the spunky, free spirited Dharma on the groundbreaking sitcom Dharma and Greg. Now this is probably clear from Jenna's bright, shining golden globe that sits on her mantle, but she was truly amazing as Dharma. I'm a big fan and I felt very, very lucky to get to speak with her right here

before your very ears on this podcast. I loved talking to her, and I know after listening you are going to love her too. Now, in addition to being a very talented actress, Jenna was also once a very talented ballet dancer. Now I didn't realize this, but she was so good she almost went professional before she pivoted into acting. But I'm gonna leave it to Jenna to tell the whole story. So here she is, without further ado, my new bestie, Jenna Elfman. Bubble and Squeak. I love it.

Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month, left over from the Nat Poole. Hello, Jenna, how are you? I'm so good. How are you? I'm good? Well, it's good to see you. Um you you're rare. Actually, I was thinking about this because this this seems anathetical, but you grew up and were raised in Los Angeles. I feel like this is in our business. Actually, it seems like everyone I talked to us from Kansas or I don't know, India, Canada. A lot of funny people from Canada.

Surprisingly exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and my husband Body were both native Angelino's. It's amazing you you weren't. Now, I I mean, I'm skipping ahead a little. I heard that you you met on a commercial. Is that right? Yeah? The callback of a Sprite commercial in Sprite Breeds Love. That should be you should be there's new spokesperson, the two of you spright. It was well, it was funny because the slogan is I like the way you make me laugh. And frankly, that is the thing with Body

and I has been humor. That's been the thing that's kept us together thirty one years. And there's the whole story. And I'll let you do your interview, but come on, you you you during a spray. I don't know what what are you talking about? Tell me? He was the story of meeting U. Briefly. So we were at the callback, you know, we go in there and it's always that awkward thing of like tell a joke and you're like, oh god, and I don't tell jokes. It's like not

my thing. So my Body was being his most charming self because I was in the room and this was his moment to court me and so he was, you know, tap dancing and being there, you know, with his humor and being very charming. He thought and was telling a joke that I my eyes couldn't have rolled back farther in my head and um, and I just felt awkward. Um. And then he walked me to my car and said, you look just like my girlfriend. You have a head

shot so I can show her. And I was like, okay, weird, Okay, yeah, but the weird thing is he I did look just like a girl he was dating, but she was like a year younger than me, but like literally we looked like we were related. And then he was like teasing me the whole way walking to me to my car

because I parked. It was this audition place where like there's no parking ever, so I was parked in the car board of a random person's apartment and so he was giving me hell about like when if they come home. I was like, I don't know. It was going to be a fast audition anyway. We end up getting the

job and we're on set. We keep getting rained out, so we're just spending day after day together hanging out on set and the trailer whatever, getting to know each other, and we film a bunch of vignettes together and then we end up. You know, it takes a while before before it starts airing, and it was a national commercial, and by this time we're like boyfriend girlfriend. Now it starts airing, he gets edited out, I'm in the commercial.

He then has to procuress and progressively watch every like sixty dollars worth of residual that that I'm getting, and the here's the punchline ishes that the vignette that they used of me is a quick moment of me go falling with laughter, and it was him right off camera making me laugh. Oh, I can't believe you said together that. If I were him, I probably would have just been like, God, yeah, and here we are. That's and you're still to get

thirty one years thirty one years together? Well, I mean, you're not really supposed to talk about age, but I know thirty one years is a long time. You met young then, Yeah, I was a nineteen and I'm fifty now. Wow, congratulations, thank you? That No, that is amazing. Um, okay, so before this, before the sprite commercial you're in, you're in Los Angeles. I understand you're your folks are not in the business, right, Your your dad is a an aircraft executive,

Is that right? Yeah? He wrote, like security policy at whose aircraft company? Oh? Okay, when did you know that acting or or the business? I don't know. I always hate that phrase. And I just used it that that was something you were interested in? Was it? Was it? High school? Younger? Younger? I had told my mom I had a career in ballet, like before I became an actress, because you know, your mom puts you in ballet class and that's what you knew. And so I just did

that while I was in school. But apparently when I was like three or four, I told my mom, I'm going to be very famous on TV one day, you know, And it was like I was a TV kid. I enjoyed watching things on TV, playing in my playpin. My brother was ten years older and my sister was thirteen years older. My mom had had some miscarriages between my brother and I, so there's this like ten year age gap.

So I would be like sitting there and watching them outside, watching them come home with their friends, and you know, I would I was watching like Get Smart and Bewitched and Brady Bunch and all these things while my mom was tending to them. And I don't know, I must

have just I think I liked. I thought I thought it was very interesting what people could make me laugh or could captivate my attention or make me feel different emotions, you know, And I thought, that's that's that's interesting because from a very early age I was really troubled by seeing that people had suffering in them as a young toddler and child and just being around in life. I love my mom would apologize for me staring at people, but I was a people watcher. I was very interested

in humanity and human behavior and curious about people. But I would observe so much suffering and I was like it captivated my attention and I was like, how is a little child can I make someone feel better? And if they were suffering, that means it went bad, which means it was good before, you know, there was a lot they lost something and became sad, and how do you get them back to before they became sad? And that was something that like really took a lot of

my attention as a child. Was this like empathetic concern and um and I think that I also remember I think Jungle Book was the first movie I ever saw in a movie theater, and it moved me to tears at this one point, and I felt that sense of empathy and emotion, and I thought it was so weird how a two dimensional screen could make arouse emotion human emotion in me. And I thought, oh, maybe that's a way you're in people's homes when you're on TV. Maybe

that's the way I can make people feel better. Right. That is so interesting and also so incredibly mature. I mean the idea, because I was about to say I was the same way, like studying human behaviors. But I don't think I had at all what you're talking about, which is actually a journey like that. You were mature enough to say, oh, they're they're in a bad place right now. Then for you to start to identify that so early, that's that's amazing. Yeah, I just remember it

occupying a lot of my attention. I don't know, I guess that's how I entertained myself or something. It was just that was my hook. You know, there's some kids that like to you know, they play with drink and they like to undo things and try and figure out how to put them back together. Certain kids are you know, they just have these inclinations in areas and human beings were kind of mine fascination. Right. So you you went to l A County High School for the Arts. Now,

was was that for dance? Yeah? That was for dance for dance, okay, yeah, I would go there and then then after school we get out at four o'clock and then we me and my friend would went to the same ballet school in Santa Monica, West Side Ballet, and so we take the It was in al Hambro County High School for the Arts, which is east of downtown l A. So then it was like peak traffic time. You can imagine the ten Freeway at four pm or fift thirty going from al Hamber to Santa Monica five

days a week. But that's how dedicated we were at, you know, becoming professional ballerinas, and so that's just what you do. Right. You had an injury, is that right? Yeah? It was. It started in gymnastics when I was like nine or ten. I was doing what's called giants, where you hang by one bar and your full body is hanging in your full body rotates around the bar. It's called I used to do that. I used to do

that all the time. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, okay, you know when you just swing your full body you're just swinging around of course. Yeah, I was trying that this morning. Yeah, I know. But I had dismounted, crooked, landed on the edge of the mat and tour for ligaments when I was really young, so that kind of set the stage for like just a vulnerable right ankle.

And then I'm going through doing ballet and I go do summer programs on full scholarship to Pacific with West Ballet and Seattle, Washington, which was really fun, but that was a very intensive program, and my ankle would just from the stress, stress and everything, it would just activate. And then I had a tendants separate from the bone

that I had to be in a cast. And it was just like these recurring things, and I at a certain year in my later teens it was time to either go into a ballet company, which I was considering doing going into Pacific with West Ballet because I always got full scholarship there and I thought that's this is the right transitional point. But then it was like this ankle injury was so recurring. I went, I'm I'm going to spend more time icing and tending to an injury

than I am creating, and that's not a career. And it was mainly being on my toes and doing point work that was the triggering factor. So I went, well, let me dance and TV and film because it's more jazz or lyrical. So that's when I started making that transition and got a dance agent and started going on auditions for things that had dancers in them and uh, and that started kind of that transition from dance to on camera like acting and all of that. Right, did

you ever consider acting as a child. I don't know if I had articulated it as acting, but I knew I wanted. I knew I loved Make Believe. I knew I was obsessed with human behavior and human beings, and I knew I wanted to reach far and wide in terms of whatever it was I was going to create. I wanted it to be like hundreds of millions of people, like I wanted to reach a lot of people. Um, But I to know if it was acting per se more than just effecting affecting affecting, yeah, like and leaving

them with an effect to create it upon them. You know that I could move them to think a new thought or move their emotions somehow, and in doing so, remind them that they're alive and that there's hope. You know. That was sort of like my thought process. I think, right, well, I read online your at least your first credited job is as a dancer in a Depeche Mode music video. When when did you start studying acting? When did at

least that seed start? When I met my husband Um, I was dancing on the Academy, was one of the dancers on the Academy Awards in and that was the same month that I met Body on the Sprit commercial. It was after I had done the Academy Awards. I was like this big and one of this like an inch toll on the s Green and one of thirty and I went, this is the best job I can get in Ella as a dancer. I didn't have plans

to go to Broadway cause I didn't really sing. And I went, I don't feel like I can make that impact. That was what my sort of You know, I hadn't articulated it, but I just knew that impression of a goal I didn't feel like I could do that being an inch big and one of thirty and not having like my own name identity. So I went, I think it's time to start acting. And so that was that transition. And I had met body that month and I was like, where do you I need to study acting, and so

he's like, well, I study here. I was like, okay, I'll go there. I had done some improv classes. My mom put me in like improv comedy classes when I was a teenager for commercials, just so that I had some tools for like commercial auditions. So I had done some of that already, but I hadn't done seen study or character work. So you were you were going to be a professional dancer. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, Like I didn't hang out at malls and do all the

teenage stuff. I was in a dance studio, mastering of fine art, you know, like I really was dedicated to that. Yeah, I mean, and that's that's such a tremendous Yeah, as you say, a tremendous amount of time and number of hours training. So you're doing commercials and you're you know, you're on TV, but you're dancing, and then you start you start taking classes. And when does it sort of click for you that this is something that I can that I can do? Was it right away or yeah?

I think so. Actually, this is when it started good asking me this question, Brian. Thank you. This just reminded me. Um. I just remember this when you asked that. Earlier on when I was a teenager, my mom had me do one acting private with an acting coach that was scene study. It was like a little mini thing. It was just he and I, like in a dance studio, just to

rent the space or whatever. And I remember that moment of being in total belief of who I was as that character, like being another person with all the thoughts and emotions in that environment with that story that's going on as a human being and that. And I remember getting so much sensation out of that, and I felt so alive, um in that all by myself in this space, and I was like, this is amazing. This is stimulating

and fulfilling. And I was like wow. And I think that is probably when I went, oh, it's kind of magical, right. It was like you were truly in this other existence knowingly, and I just thought, Wow, this is this is special. This isn't something everybody does. This is like really cool.

So that that suspended moment of you know, and for me today when the cameras rolling and the director says action like that is the safest place ever for me because everyone agrees in that moment that that's the story, and and the cameraman, the focus puller, the sound technician, the prop man, everybody is in agreement that this is the story from each of their jobs. And I just think that that is I think we take for granted,

we don't really think about it. But when you really think about that, that's pretty cool that I will never forget that, Jenna, No, I'm serious, I will I will never forget that because you're right. In life, look, everybody plays a character to one degree or another, right with with your friends, with your spouse, with your kids, with your businesses, so whatever. Like everyone's constantly playing a version

of themselves. That works in this situation. At the same time, if you're with a group of people, everybody else has their own agendas and are playing their own specific roles and at the same time trying to figure out what's really going on beneath the surface, and all of those things are happening, all of the time. But what you're saying is so true. In the moment of acting in a scene, everyone's objectives are set and everyone who's around are are helping to support this one moment that everyone

agrees on. I just literally re said what you said. But this is gonna stick with me forever. So you think it's something you just never think about. Ti you think about it and then you gee zs how magical and special it is. Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. Okay, So people, I'm not I'm trying to make this about me.

People give me shipped all the time, right, because when I moved to Los Angeles, I met the folks on the office like three months later, right, And so people are like, oh, come on, how are you you know? But I'm like, no, guys, listen, I had this whole career that happened before this. But you, I mean, this is this is amazing. I did not know that. Like, you were so focused on being a dancer, and this

transition happened for you really quickly. I mean it sounds like you had this experience that was sort of transformative early on. But you meet your husband and you start you start taking classes, and you immediately respond to the work it sounds like. And then not much later you find yourself as a series regular on your first show, Townies. What was that experience like for you your your first show after you know, doing commercials and guest star stuff. Yeah,

I had. It was a lot of work to get an agent, like not a pertial but a theatrical agent. So I had to navigate and all the things I did to make that happen. Um. So I finally got an agent in the summer of and then immediately started

getting guest star roles. So I was just getting my feet wet and you know, doing a series of guest star roles both comedy and drama, and then pilot season in the January February of n and so I went on start going on those auditions, immediately went to network on one of them, didn't get it, and then going to network on Townies came up. I went I was the first actress cast in that, and it just felt it felt right, you know, I felt like I've been

working so hard. I was like very happy it happened so fast, but in my own experience didn't feel like it happened fast because I've just been putting in four years of study and working my ass off and dreaming about trying to get an agent, trying to make this happen. So everything felt appropriate. You know. I never felt undeserving of it, or I never felt doubtful of myself because I had legitimately busted my ass to put in the

work and worked really hard to get it. So I was enjoying having achieved it and learning that next chat, you know, like now you have the job, but now this is a whole new learning curve. And ham Freyman, she directed every episode of Townies, and she taught me everything about four camera and everything I needed to learn.

And I certainly did not know, you know, down to even like what wait to put on which foot so you're not block blocking the light of your fellows for that camera, you know, and you know, those first press interviews and all of the whole all the whole package of things that comes with that that's brand new and thrilling. And then learning about the politics of co stars, you know,

and how to be in that group. It's not just your journey, and for me, I was a little on my journey, and then I had to learn throughout these next jobs about everyone's collective process and you grow up a bit. So that was interesting and cool. And then the last day of filming, because it so then it was like at thirteen million viewers, it wasn't enough and we were getting canceled. Oh those were the days. Oh gosh. And but I had gotten noticed from my work on

the show. It was sort of like, who's this new funny girl. And frankly, I didn't know I had any ability at comedy that was special or unique or anything. I just studied as an actor, so I was just doing the character in my point of view, and I twenty Century Fox called me for a general interview. So I went to that meeting and then drove to work at Radford to film the last day of Townies. And after the meeting, by the time I pulled up at Radford,

they had called and offered me a million dollar development deal. Wow, So that was nice. That was That was also I would say that, yes, you made an impression on Townies. I mean, that's incredible. Okay, keep going, so you know you have that, you know this show is ending, yet you know that that you have this. Yeah, And then it was a bit of a journey of like ABC wanted to be. It was Jamie Tarsus at that time, and so I went and head of general with Jamie

and she's like, we want you. And so then it was the lovely problem of to do a studio deal or a network deal and what should I do? You know, Like I remember my husband and I was sitting in the car. We were like trying to figure out, like what are the pros and cons of a network deal versus a studio deal. And then we went well, with the studio deal, you could go to any network, but on a network, that's it, you know, And so we just thought maybe there was more creative and our histic

access and flexibility with a studio deal. So that's the one I decided upon. And then they started sending me. Funny sent me a list of writers that they had deals with and said, pick whoever you want to write a show for you. I was like, okay, I've never done this before. I'll just start at the top of the list literally, and it was Jeff and Jaff and I went and had a meeting with them and they were like, we think you're great, but we're already developed

some developing something for this season. So you have to wait till next season, and I had the instinct that I have momentum and I didn't want to wait, so I just kind of went to the next one on the list. And at that right in that period of that week, Chuck Lorii had sent over and Dottie Dartland had said over kind of a sketch of this character. The bottom line for her was she was who she was,

not this layered neurotic thing. But like if she's happy, you scratch the surface, you don't get a different beast, you just get more of her. And that was the concept for this character. And then they ended up working backwards, Well how do you get somebody like that? Well, maybe hippie parents who just allowed her to be, you know. And at that time it was very unique for that kind of character because it was a lot more at the time women in comedy on the on shows, it

was more neurotic. And so anyhow, I went and had a general meeting with Dottie Dartlin and Chuck Laurie where they pitched me Darma and Greg. It was like they pitched it and I saw the entire thing. I saw all the success. I literally it was so right, and I was just so connected to where I was at. You know that, I was like, I didn't go home and ask my agents, what do you think I didn't ask my husband. I didn't. I literally said yes, let's do it, and we shook on it right there at

Jerry's delia venturable Art. And that felt really good to just own me knowing this is the right thing. I just could see myself in it. I don't know, it was just beautiful. It was just those moments that happened that you're like, uh, you cherished forever, you know. Yes, Uh, for those of you Darman Greg five seasons to two thousand two, Jenna wins the Golden Globe for her role as Dharma, three Primetime Emmy nominations for Best Actress. Uh. You know what you said is what I was thinking

about this morning. That there wasn't female characters like this at the time. I mean it really, I don't know. Did you ever talk about Lucy old Ball? I mean to me, the boldness, the physical comedy that's really where almost not since then was there sort of a central female character that was able to do so much? Did you ever talk about I Love Lucy or or were there shows that that you found Darmin Gregg sprouting out

of I never taught. I didn't directly talk about I Love Lucy that I remember, But for me, I grew up obsessed with I Love Lucy and have seen every episode, oh every single one through wherever I had to get them. I love my mom, love Lucille Ball, and I love Lucie Ball. I loved it. I could watch it. Um. It was just totally hit my jam as a kid. And you know, I enjoyed, like I said, Get Smart

and and Mash and all of these other shows. You know, Judy Holiday and Born Yesterday is also like uber favorite of mine because if you really watch her in that, I mean, she's brilliant and I don't know, I it's like one of those things where it was just an affinity. You know, it just got my goose. You know, it was just my jam and so it was inspiring to me, and probably was. And and the Carol Burnett Show. I love Carol Burnett, but you know, Tim Conway and Harvey

Corman were my jam. Like I was a little girl obsessed with them. These two men, middle aged men that I was like, I couldn't get. It was like chocolate fudge like I couldn't get enough of it. And so I think that just when you watch as much of it as I did it, it educates you. You know. It's I was educated in physical comedy by literally watching every single thing of those So I think that that was just in my cellular spiritual, cellular makeup of an education,

you know. And maybe they wrote towards my physical comedy from seeing townies. You know. I don't know how it all came to be on that, how everything piece together so well for me in terms of them writing, but it was created for me. So maybe they just saw what I had and wrote towards that, you know, right, because you were in on it so early. Did you screen test with the men? I'm talking, of course about Thomas Gibson who played Greg. Did you did you have

something to do with the casting? Did you read with him beforehand? Okay, yeah, yeah, they had me. I mean, the show was my show and they created it for me. So I was they had me in when they you know, not every casting, but on the callbacks they had it narrowed it down to a batch. And also with Thomas, he came in and there was other guys who were great you know, they were great, but he came in

and it was like the show was happening. I mean, you might as well just turn the camera and it was all happening that and it's dynamics and chemistry that you can't put on a page. It's just that dichotomy of his character and how he was raised and my character and how she was raised. You know, he's a lawyer and is like a no until it's a yes, and she was a free spirit. It was a yes until it was a no. And so those that dichotomy, it was just worked. You know, it was just work.

It worked at that time, at that moment, it was perfect. And I remember he read and left and I looked at Chuck, and Chuck stood up and just made like a home run swing, grand slam gesture, and we were like, that was it. That was that was it? It was it. It was amazing. Yeah, it's it's interesting. We talked a lot about this and my experience on the office, and one thing that Greg Daniels, our showrunner at the time, said is you can't write behavior right. You have to observe.

As you talked about earlier, it's about the very small nuances that every individual responds to things in totally different and unique ways. And as an actor, you you put those in a bag and hope you can replicate them effectively, But you can't write it. It just happens there in the moment. Yeah, And it's not even anything I thought

about either. Wasn't like I was thinking of behaviors. I just knew the DNA the home base, you know, For me, it's often finding what's the home base for a character in terms of what's their main what are they in at any given time, but what's the main thing that they're in, what's their home base? And for her it was yes, And so I just leaned into you know, it was just yes, and and every character is different.

With NTV my characters, she's so insecure. Her space doesn't extend more than like an inch and a half from the front of her face. Like she's not extroverted, you know, like she can't. So that then anything that came at me was was just like, oh my god, because she was suddenly her life was like a reality show literally, and she's a ups driver and is just trying to start this relationship with him, like and everyone in America is giving their opinion it was, you know, so that's

where she was at. That determines once I locate like the home base, then it brings about these behaviors that you don't have to sit there writing on the page. It just comes because you know, that comes from that home base. So anyway, I love that. I don't call it a home base, but for me, it's the same thing. Yeah, there's a physical characteristic. There's something physically about how that

character that you're creating moves in the world or exists. Yeah, that tempo, like Kevin has an identifiable like meter, you know what I mean. And the way you held your body, you just could set the meter at that tempo. I like, you're in my house, Like I've watched so much. I mean we're like on a kick for the last year and a half, Like we're watching every episode of the Office. And Randy Cordray, by the way, was the line producer on both I Think Townies and definitely Dharma and Greg.

I love Randy. He's amazing. Uh, let me share him in common. But yeah, I love I love watching you guys, And it's so fun when you see wonderful actors that are relishing the character they're creating and it's just is that right fit at the right time for them. It's so inspiring, you know, to watch where you are in your mind and kinetic how it manifests kinetically, and it's just so delightful to see that, especially, you know, knowing what your rhythm and personality is as you and you

see the difference. You know, it's so fun to see how you transformed yourself. Yes, well, thank you for that. But yes, that idea that you talked about about, you know, the space only exists two inches in front and if anybody comes at it's that. Yeah, and I've talked about this before, but for me, one of the things about Kevin was he was not aware of his size in the space and that and that he could not could not rotate on on his hips, so there was no

there was no turning left or right. His entire body had to move in that direction in order to look that way, which takes time, which is about the rhythm that you're talking about. Yeah, what what made you come up with that? Did that? Just was it reading the dialogue that then put you in that part of your body that way and then that's what came of it, or was it someone you saw that you're like, oh, this is that guy? And then like where did that come from? For you? Well, it's a little bit tricky.

I mean, I don't know. You know, I did so much theater that for me always the physicality was was a part of it. So I guess based on the words and how it was written and then translating that for myself in terms of yeah, everything physically. So it all always just kind of where it landed in. You write that impression of that guy, you just kind of landed in your body that way. Yeah, Exactly why did the show end or was this a collective decision or was this a network decision? And how how much time

did you know? At the end? It was such a anticlimactic way to end for something that had been so awesome. We you know, it was like any other year you finished the season in May and or April, and your wait to find out if you got picked up until May and then it was like nope, you didn't, and that was it. I mean, it wasn't like, hey, this might be the last season. It was like it was any It was a season like any other to my knowledge. Anyway, if there had been talk of it maybe being the last.

I hadn't been informed, so I wasn't filming that last season making sure I'm soaking it all in the way, you know what I mean, like and with all the all the ceremony that you would do if you notice the last season of something you had all been living

with for five years. So it was so weird to then just not be coming back to work after all of that, And it was a mystery frankly for a long time for me, and I ultimately that one of the executives had then created his own production company or whatever, and then I had worked on a show that was with that production company and I later called him. I was like, you know what, can you answer something for me?

And uh, and he was like, you know, like the licensing couldn't ultimately make a licensing deal with ABC in a way that wouldn't cause it to lose money if it went past five years. I was like, wow, really, like that was it? That's it? Like that huh, wow, that's a buzz kill. That's that's interesting. So thank you for telling me. But you know, oh that's too bad. Yeah,

it was kind of but whatever. It was such a great time while it lasted, and I'm so I pushed and pushed and pushed and had been working very hard to make the episodes available on DVD or you know whatever, and UM was very insistent on that because I didn't want it to just now be not available. And there was some music licensing rights where the third season and

on couldn't be made into a DVD. So I got the first two years released on DVD by pushing twenty very hard, repeated for years, and then when streaming came about, I was like, can we really look at that? I asked my lawyer, can you call them, let's really look at this, because now that might be different rules because

it's considered TV. And then it got packaged in a thing and Hulu bought it, so now all five seasons are available on Hulu, which just thrills me because I just that was so much hard work and it's it was such a beautiful time, and you know the response

from fans is so awesome. They just like become joyful when they see, oh I loved you know, it's just the effect Dharma created it, like and how much laughter and they found themselves or some like with the office, you know, they find them or some part of their family one of those characters and it makes them laugh

and gives them relief from life. Yeah, your character specifically, I think socially in terms of you know, what the show did had a very feminist perspective, and I feel like showed, unlike many shows on television, a really strong, independent, funny woman taking the lead. Are you proud of that or do you see that as the show's legacy in a way? You know? I I see it, Yeah, I

see it that in the most fun, charismatic way. You can own your space and you don't have to be an asshole, and you don't unless you want to, you know, or you can. I mean, a woman frankly can be whatever she wants. And but I loved that it was she lead with love, but she was who she was, and that there can be a lightheartedness to owning your space. There can be a playful quality, not where you have

to diminish your power by being cookie or playful. You know, you can be serious and however you want to do it, but just that it can be loving and present and whole. And I loved that about her. And I had a lot of people write letters that were like going to commit suicide, and they decided not to because Dharma showed them that it's okay to be themselves, even if it's quirky or offbeat or not the usual, It's okay and it's worth sticking around. And I got so many of

those letters. It was like wow, you know, And so I think there was this multidimensional effects of having fun and being her fully and my enjoyment within that was probably a bit contagious too, and improved the mood enough that maybe they could think a little more clearly. However that went down, but I do think it was an an obvious feminist example, you know, right awesome and truly, you know, I was. I was alive at the time

and watching television. I mean, I can't overstate what a significant impact it had on television at the time it was on. And I think also today and roles, be it Mindy Kaling and the Mindy Project or uh Ellie Kemper and Kimmy Schmidt. I mean, allowing women who are potentially quirky but strong with strong personalities to to lead shows. I think it has a huge effect on television today. Also by the tons of films, a bunch of comedies. Uh, to name a few, six Wives of Henry Lafe, Love Heards,

Friends with Benefits, Big Stone Gap. Is there any film that happened, say after Darman Gregg that you feel like was able to transition and pivot you in a new direction, be seen in a different way. I think Keeping the Faith was one for me because for me it was definitely transitional because I filmed it right, I don't know, in the hiatus before one of the last seasons of Dharmin Greg and I had to be a woman in this film, and I frankly had only been a girl before,

and in Darmin Gregg it was a girl. You know. I was so in that canetic cuteness of dharma that it's like you're kind of scared to not do it because it's really working for you, especially when just what feels like just yesterday you were scrounging for top Rawman. You know, you know, you're a little nervous to not do the thing that's like, you know, being lauded and stuff.

So but I that was with Edward Norton and Ben Stiller, and it was Edward Norton's directorial debut, and we filmed it in New York and it was, you know, these three childhood friends, and I was one ended up becoming obviously Edward Norton, the priest, Ben Stiller, the rabbi, and I was the ships that they grew up with, who became a very strong businesswoman, and they kind of reunite. She comes back to New York for business and they all reunite, and then a sort of love triangle ensues.

And Edward it was so cool because I really admire him as an actor. You know, he helped me develop that character. And so to work with someone I really admired as an actor, it was like let it. Growing my eyebrows in and lowering my voice, slowing the kinetic factor down, slowing my everything down, speaking slower. I felt like I wanted to die. I was so uncomfortable. I

remember that first day. I was scared to death and we were, I mean, sweating and uncomfortable because I was so far out of my comfort zone of what was tried and true and that I had been working on. And I mean, I also, this is so weird. I ultimately somewhere in there I had hyper thyroid and had gotten diagnosed maybe just before that or whatever, but I had a hyperactive thyroid, which actually probably kind of contributed to that kinetic aspect of myself that it was hard

to sit still or whatever. But it worked so okay. But uh, but anyway, it was, for various reasons, very hard to just slow down my speech, sit quietly, change my whole thing to be this girl. And I didn't feel connected to all the things I felt burning to make the scene funny or to do these things. And it was so different for me, and it was it made me go from girl to woman using my craft, and it was a really huge learning experience for me. And I could prove to myself by doing that job

that I can be a woman. I can find power and stillness. It's okay to feel that power that comes up when you are still, because frankly, if you're always kinetic, it is a dispersal your you could dilute your power. And so I think that was also part of the awkwardness and uncomfortable, was like being still, it's powerful, and I was kind of scared of that until I got used to it. Yes, that's so interesting. So now in a well, I would call it a very big departure

from at least what you're known for. Obviously you have done dramas, but it doesn't get any more dramatic than Fear the Walking Dead? Were you a fan of the Walking Dead before Fear of the Walking Dead? Were you aware of this show? Were you a fan? I was aware, because I don't know how you could not be aware of it, of the whole Walking Dead universe. Um, I was certainly aware in terms of my personal kind of where I would go to for entertainment. Zombies wasn't the genre.

Horror wasn't my genre in terms of like, this is not where I leaned, you know, I would you know, I'm sort of late to certain things. But and and that transition from where I was in my mental artistic journey to that arriving and landing in my lap was like couldn't have come at a better time, And it would like kind of saved my joy, my artistic joy.

Like I was really in a kind of a rut and kind of bummed out at like how things had progressed on shows that I had done, and was tad worked so hard to make things work, and I wanted to start spressing myself artistically in a new way. I had to reinvent myself because I wanted to do something new. I needed a new challenge. And it lands like ten days after making some adjustments in the structure of like you know, my representation or whatever and sorting some things out,

it May called and offered me the job. And then at that point I promptly watched every episode of The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead. That was a lot of viewing. Um, but I felt like, this is a huge entertainment universe. The fandom is as a character in this piece, and all the mythology is its own thing, and I was like, I need to like fully go in all the way and educate myself on this, and in doing so, I became a fan myself, and I really loved the storytelling, you know. So it's it's been

really three sixty lots of good sensation for me. Yeah, your experience now having been on the show a long time, do you do you feel that the environment around work is different than a comedy or not? For me, it is, it's a totally different experience. And I don't know if that's just drama comedy or like this Walking Dead universe, because it's there's drama, but there's a mythology to it.

So in terms of how character stories connect and bounce off each other, they're very circular, especially because we had crossover characters from Walking Dead to Fear. So when I joined the show it it had gone through like a revamp of sorts in season four and they had really brought it even more under that umbrella and started connecting story and character more rather than two different shows. So, um, I had a lot to learn, and so I my whole process with the script and everything I had to

I felt like I was starting over. I literally felt like, oh my god, wait a second, in terms of how much I have to understand story wise. Um, so, yeah, it's been challenging in the greatest, most stimulating way. Yeah, I love it. I love it, love it. I have a great friend. Don't know if you've run into him, Cary Peyton. I love Cary. I love, love love Cary. Yes,

we went to school together. Actually, you know, he's talked to me a lot about I Mean, there there's fans that they're always rooting for certain things, or they don't like certain characters, or they don't want certain storylines. But man, with the Walking Dead thing that I mean the fans have it all figured out and mapped out, and well, my understanding is if you, if you veer away, you risk the wrath of of the fans because a lot

of them know no more than anybody. Oh they do, but they analyze and re analyze and slice and dice and examine and flip on every edge and corner. And it's admirable. Actually it's pretty amazing. But that's what makes the Walking Dead universe so special is it invokes that in you. It invokes this like real examination of characters and intentions and consequences and really forces you to look at all of this. I really admire the commitment of

the fans. It's quite something. I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, in addition to your work there, you are taking the podcast universe by storm, You're you're veering very, very heavily into my lane. Just make sure you stay on your own. Not one, but two podcasts. Kicking and Screaming with your husband body not for children? I love that. Are you having fun with him doing that? Oh? Yeah, I love it?

You know it's it's we felt like we actually wanted to do a scripted comedy about marriage starring the two of us, uh, because we felt like any show about marriage we had seen was either um sort of like multi cam light or like let Me Kill Myself now,

single camp about marriage, and we couldn't. We never have seen anything kind of in between where it captures the glory, the torture, the politics, the games, the love, the French everything, and then it just kind of became its own thing, and you know, every kind of person seems to relate to it. We don't like give advice. We just talked about our own ship in a humorous, very straightforward way.

And we also felt like, you know, celebrities or public figures, their relationships always seem managed by publicists and made private and you never really know, and we just thought, oh, for crying out loud, let's just talk about it. Marriage is funny, like relationships are funny, and so we just love talking about it and we are best friends and we have been through everything. Yeah, well thirty one years, that's a long time. So there's Yeah, there's definitely not

not a need for new topics. I have to say, what you were just talking about about television shows, It's so true. There either has to be a major problem or or everything is just perfect and hunky dory, yeah and incidental and yeah, yeah, I'm married myself. There's this is more than all those things. Thanks, you're complicated and they can be equally awesome and terrible at the same to Yeah, you're like so glad they're there and you can't wait for him to get out of the house

at the same time with equal force and passion. Also, your friend, Heather Dale, all the things now I have I have listened, I have listened to kicking and screaming. Tell me about all the things I don't I don't know about all the things when I'm we moved to Austin. She I met her and we just hit it off and we always have these fun conversations, and I don't know, we just were like, let's talk about it publicly. Let's

talk about all the things that we talked about. And maybe you know, it's a little like pandemic born of you know, is there anyone else out there kind of needs a friend. Let's share our friendship with them, because frankly, I was feeling a little lonely. It felt so good to meet her and have the sisterhood, you know, in my neighborhood. And that's really what it is, and we talked from you know, more serious subjects to like stuff and we film it and it's on YouTube or you

can listen. But we're kind of cute to look at, so you know, you can watch it on YouTube, and you know, it's just fun. Frankly, and the longer I've lived my life and the more I've seen in this world doing things that actually are fun are really important. Yes, and you are fun. You are fun. And also you moved to Austin, Texas, and I'm there's a huge part of me that's very jealous of you. I feel like everyone is moving to Austin, Texas. Austin's read that really is.

It's a great city. Really, I never thought i'd live anywhere else. I'm like, I'm I'm so hardcore Angelina like that's through various factors of the filming, the pandemic. I started homeschooling my kids myself, and it just made sense to live where I was filming instead of all the commuting and stuff. It's awesome. Congratulations on Austin. By the way, Jenna, thank you so much for talking to me. I appreciate your openness, your thoughts. Again, I'm never going to forget.

Everyone is working together to create one moment and everyone is on the same page, and it's really the only time in the world that that happens, and that's a special thing. Yeah, thanks so much for talking to me. It was such a pleasure to get to know you a little bit. And good luck in Austin. Thank you. Thanks for having me Jenna listen. You are the best and I am not just saying that because we podcasters have to stick together, all right. Thank you so much

for joining me today. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it and how much I enjoyed meeting you and for you listeners, Thank you for joining me as well. Make sure to like, follow, subscribe, leave a funny comment on the at Off the Beat, Instagram, anything to let me know how you're liking the show. In fact, one lucky listener who leaves a comment or review, I'm going to choose your comment or question and I'm going to feature it in an upcoming episode, so stay tuned for that.

Thank you all for joining me, and we will see you next week for another episode of again my favorite podcast, Off the Beat. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our excutive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Emily Carr, and Hannah Harris. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olandski