Ernie Hudson

welcome back to Off the Beat. I'm your host, Brian baum Gartner. Now you don't have to ask me who are you gonna call, because you just heard that. I am calling the incredible Ernie Hudson for today's episode. And listen. If I had ghosts, I surely would be calling his character Winston Zeta Moore as well. That's right. You may know Ernie from Ghostbusters, you know, just one of the

most iconic franchises of my lifetime. Or perhaps you're more familiar with him as Warden Leo Glenn from one of my favorite television shows, oz or Elsie Duncan from the Family Business or one of the other two hundred and fifty plus projects that Ernie has acted in. No big deal. He's what they call prolific. Ernie has been gracing screens big and small for almost five decades, and I was absolutely thrilled to sit down and talk to him about his life. Let me tell you he has some stories

to share. Okay, here's a couple of spoilers. He is path somehow includes the Marines, becoming a reserve deputy sheriff, and working with several of my favorite directors from the office. With that said, I'm gonna let you sit back and enjoy our conversation. Please give a warm off the beat. Welcome to Ernie Hudson, Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and Squeaker cooking at every month, left over from the night before. What's up, Ernie? Hey,

what's up? What's up? Are you doing? I'm great? How are you doing? Fine? Man? Good to see you, Good to see you. Thanks so much for talking to me. Yeah, good to talk to you. Man. How's it going. I'm good. I uh, We're going to discuss this a little later. We've actually worked on the same project together. I don't even know if my producers know this, but we never appeared together. So there's there's a there's a there's a spoiler. Okay, all right, okay, but I want to start back first

you first off, what so what was the project? Do you don't remember? I was gonna tell I was gonna tell you later, but okay, okay, okay, yeah, I'll tell I'll tell you later. Okay. Uh. You you grew up in Michigan? That yeah, now is that like in the uper or we're we're in Michigan. You know, I grew up in Michigan. I didn't think there was anything north of say, Grand Rabbits, but Bears. So it took I realized that people actually lived there. Gone from southwestern Michigan,

right along the coast, directly across the lake from Chicago. Okay, so yeah, Betton Harbor, what about you? Are you from Michigan, I'm from I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. But I was I was just there. I was just I was actually in Grand Rapids for the first time. Yeah. Yeah, Grand says um. It's a city, It's a city of bold of Michigan.

I think it's probably the healthiest city I've worked in Northern Michigan and Upper Peninsula, you know from time to time, so I've actually been there, but it was not until much month later on when you were growing up. Were you interested in writing stories? Yeah? Yeah, with the writing, I was interested in the writing. Um that was where I thought my career was going to go and telling I love telling stories, so the writing was a big

part of it. And when I got into college, that was what I really wanted to focus on, even though right away I started acting. I joined some groups and whenever we were short of cast member, I've would step in, you know, so and as it actually because I didn't take it so serious. The acting was fun. It was never it was never a job. You know, writing became a job. And then uh, then I went to Yale and they just totally destroyed my writing. So I haven't

written anything worth anything since. But really, yeah, yeah, it was not It was I was talking to a young lady who I was a classmate at Yale, and yeah, I really didn't It wasn't a good move. But the acting, again was fun and I didn't have to think about it, and I still don't think about it too much. So

that's what I do well. That's that's healthy. Before before we hear how Yale screwed you up though you you attended Wayne State and you became a resident playwright at Concept East, which I'm told is the oldest black theater in in the country. It was for a long time. I'm name is sure if they're still there. The city has gone through so many changes, but for the longest time and had been there, you know, just in the community,

really doing some great work. And Ron Milner, who you know, did some things on Broadway and became a wealth established Woody King who had the new Federal that if they all came out of Concept East Theater, and so that was kind of my introduction. But I was there thinking of myself as a writer. Okay, but you you performed some. I performed a lot. That's what I basically I realized that's always been you know, I don't know, I think I felt actors weren't as um legitimate or high on

the totem pole is something. Being a writer seemed more I don't know, you know, just more something. Acting did not seem like it was something that you could just say, I'm an actor and that would be enough, you know, you mean I'm an act a producer, I'm an actor director, I'm an actor hyphen something, but just being an actor, which it's what my life has turned into. This is all I do. It's all I know how to do. As you're as you're writing now, are they is concept?

Are they doing original works that you're helping to write? Well? Are you talking about during the time? Yeah, original works? Um, we would. We had a lot of workshop stuff, so these are your plays we put on like it was really community theater, grassroots. Yeah. And so I was writing and they were doing little pieces, you know, little plays, had a couple of I was at Wayne State. Wayne State did some plays that I had written. Yeah, that was sort of where I was, you know, when I

was thinking of myself. But but I all always it was never appeared when I wasn't acting. And when you went to Yale that was primarily to pursue writing. Yeah. I got into the playwriting program that were I think only there was six in the program and I made an exception and brought me in. So I was the number seven and it was I think only like a at Yale School drama maybe a hundred thirty five students.

It's really small, very small, very small, and uh but even then, I think that I got cast into play the first week I was there. So the acting just always kept trying to inform me that this is what you need to be going. One of, if not your first theatrical meaning film releases, was the co starring role in Leadbelly. Yeah, and that's stretching it sat co starring, But yeah, yes, I was in the field. You were

in the film. How did that come about? Now? At this point are you are you solely focused on acting or how do you how do you get connected with Gordon Parks? No, I was. I was at my first year at Yale. A friend who I worked with doing a lot of community theater in Detroit, where I got my equity card. He was in l A and he

was doing a play. And when we took the summer break, I went to Minnesota, where my family was, I got a call he was doing a play one of me, and and so I came out to l A. Was doing the play and trying to just see what I could get going, which is absolutely nothing. And then I had a devastating meeting with an agent in Beverly Hills who told me that I would never work in Hollywood, go back to Detroit. So set of really strange circumstances kind of came together. A girl I had met at

a party. I was so devastated with this agent. I mean I really was close to tears. I wasn't, actually, I was so upset and so frustrated. I went to her, went to see her, and we sat and and drank, and I went home that night. Her dad came over and I left my resume there and her dad was Gordon Parks. The resume just by accident. But you know, I sat the resume that I tried to give to

the agent on her piano, not consciously doing it. And when he came over to dinner, he saw my resume and photo and he was doing a movie called Lead Belly, and so he, the studio of Paramount, tried to reach out to me. Took him days because I was saying at my brother's house and my niece would answer the phone and hang up, but eventually I got the call. And anyway, so that's kind of how things were meant

to happen. Apparently. So when I would have been going back to my second year Yale, I went to Texas to shoot lead belly. There was a choice between school or work or work, and uh, you know, most of the friends who pursued the whole academic course to the end, they ended up teaching. And I knew. I knew that much. I didn't want to be I didn't want to teach. So that's, uh, that's how I got into and um, yeah,

Gordon Parks was amazing. I was in down in Austin, Texas before it became Austin, Texas, and yeah, I just had a great time. Did did his daughter? Was she talking you up? Or how? I mean like he just saw it and he saw the photo on her piano. You know, I don't know. I just I get a call and I was so depressed. I was so depressed because this agent had just just took away all the confidence.

I mean, I was just really I was thinking my brother's house that really wasn't room for me of you know, then we neat dinner, that little girl would say I was eating all the food up, So then I didn't want to eat the food anymore. My sister in law took my clothes to the laundry Matt and forgot and left him, and so I really was no clothes basically um. And so when I went to see this agent, I borrowed my brother's He had a kind of a blue

jeans jacket and pants. But my brother is about forty pounds lighted than I am, so they really didn't fit. And I went in to see this agent. I borrowed his car to go see the agent, and I parked in a in a parking space that they charged, and those days nobody charged them parking. I didn't think they would charge. When I came out, I was so devastated. And then they asked me for the money for the parking and I had no money, and I just it just all kind of that's when I went to see her.

So anyway, yeah, and he just saw the picture and they called uh. And I finally got the call and they said can you be here? And I said, yeah, yeah, can come. But I had no car, so so I went ran down the street to a friends, the friend who invited me to do the play who's directing, And I just took his keys. I didn't you know, I said, dude,

I gotta take a car. I just grab the keys, jumped in his car, drove up to Paramount, went in to see him, and you know, I had this this audition and then he said, he said, I'm gonna ask you. Uh he said, this is really it's about Honey lead better. Lead Belly is, you know, his life. It's really important. That is a race with a team of horses, and I need someone who, you know, is familiar with horses. Have you ever been around horses? And I said, oh yeah, yeah,

I know horses. I grew up with horses. He says, okay, so, but there's also there's a big dance. There's a big challenge. Lead Belly challenges Archie to this dance. And so you really you're able to have to do this dance? Are you a dancer? And I said, oh, yeah, yeah I can.

I can dance. I can dance. And then as I was walking out of the room, I just because I didn't know anything about horses and I was and a dancer, and I had lied, and I just didn't want to lie, and so I stopped and I turned around and said, uh so, Mrs Parks, uh you know about those horses. I really, but I can learn. I can learn. I like horses. But you know, he says, he's and I saw the frustration he says, okay, okay, And I said, oh, and you know that about the dancing, But I can learn,

he said, just just waiting the hallway. So that I said, in the hallway. And then the producer came up to meeting and he said, Ernie um Gordon, he really liked you and I he wants you to be in the movie. So I'll tell you what. We're gonna pay you six hundred and five dollars a week. How does that sound? And I said, oh, yeah, sure, that'd be great. Well, the minimum was six hundred four dollars. So I signed a contract for absolutely the least of my bigger baby,

but I got the job. You know, what was it like being on set, like you know, a movie set down there on location, first significant work. What how was that experience for you? It was, well, it was great. My brother who he passed through a couple of years ago, but he did a lot of films and a lot of films together, he came down with me for a period. The people were right. Austin was small. It wasn't Austin the way it is now. I just found, you know,

the people truly amazing. I said to my brother, I said, you know, wow, man, it's like the people here, which when we were mostly around, you know, except for the cast white areas because we're shooting out in the country. I said, that's so nice, man, I mean, it's like everybody's really, like, really cool. And he looked at me and said, try being me. So so you're in the movie. You're one of the actors, but I'm not. Oh, you know, it's a whole different ball game with me. Uh but

which is usually his his complaint over the years. But yeah, you know. The problem was I also that dance was so exhausting and so strenuous and and and I realized that I really had to work on it and it in it. They had another dancer who they brought in. I thought they were going to take my part away. Xavier came in and he was amazing, and then I thought, oh my god, they're gonna but they he was sort of my backup in case I couldn't do but I and that's when I thought, no, I'm doing this dance.

I gotta I gotta do this dance. But Roger Mosley, who was starring and who passed away recently in front of the producers and Gordon he came and saw me dancing in one of the rehearsals and said, oh, I guess it's not true what they say about all black people can dance. So I was always that insecure, like I gotta get this, and I got huh. I didn't need my double and did all the dancing. I drove those horses like never before I did it. But it was great. Um, yeah it was you know, I was

making a movie and Gordon was amazing. He was a friend up until he passed away. He always called me the character's name, though he never called me Yarning. I was always Archie and he he called Sydney Portier and asked Sydney Portia to see me because Sydney was doing the project. But that didn't work out quite as well. But yeah, it was great. It was great. I was in the movies. Finally, when you when you finished that, how easy was it for you to continue to get work? Oh?

It was. It was rough because like that, Gordon had called Sydney. Sidney had agreed to see me, but it was taking too long. I'm like, when is it gonna see me? So I called I left messages. Sydney was over at twentieth century, and so I just decided I'm just going to go there. So so I went to his office as he was coming out to go play golf or play tennis or something, and I so I said, Mr, Party, I'm Ernie Hudson going in parks to colways. And he was so annoyed that he never worked with me. But

I got I did a couple of TV things. I got a pilot. Not that I was a regular, but I got it was it was shooting, um serious. I worked a bit, but at that point my marriage was sort of in trouble, ending even in trouble a long time. I just didn't realize it. And so I left l A after that year and went to Minnesota to try to pull my family together. And life goes on, but

you know, I tend to run on. So if I'm running on with answers, just you know, it was just it was one of those times when you don't know what's coming next, but you just know that you're you know, you're you're holding on and you're not gonna let go. You did get a number of shows and movies here and there. Incredible Hulk, Yeah, Jukes of Hazard. Yeah, that was After I did some work that year, I went to Minnesota and tried to pull my marriage, you get

the marriage totally. I realized that that everybody knew the marriage is ended except me, you know. But finally that was over. Did The Great White Hope in Minnesota some plays there which were life changing for me. And when I came back to l A the next year, I went right to work. You went right and I never stopped working yet. Where Where did you work? Did you work at the Guthrie in Minnesota? No? No? I Um, I didn't work at the three. I did, uh, the

Great White Hope at the Theater in the Round. The play opened and it was life changing. I mean I was, you know, starring in it. It was the first you know, it was. I was turning thirty. I've been acting for it seemed like ten years. I don't know how long I have to add the years up, but a long time. And I've been trying so hard, and I just felt like,

you know, my marriage is ending. I had no money, stuck in Minnesota, I didn't have bus fare to get back to l A. And so I did this play and for me, The Gray White Hope was a chance to just take everything I'd ever learned and poured into this character. It was a great character when I was I've never had a character like that in movies, but I just I worked on it like it was. I needed that affirmation. And the play opened huge and it was a sellout and the press everything was just it

built my ego. So when I came out to l A, I was sort of riding that wave, you know, and uh and it it sort of carried. But I needed that. So in Minnesota gave me that. I'll always be appreciative Minnesota because just now, at the same time, I was doing The Great White Hope the University of Minnesota that taken some classes at but they did a production of a play that I wrote, so that the writing was still kind of happening a bit, at least in my mind.

But so the time I spent in Minnesota was really very, very good. But I came out to l A. And like I said, I went right to work on TV a lot of TV shows, and uh, never really kind of stopped working. Isn't it Isn't it amazing. I don't know that I've talked to anybody about this, but it can it could be something significant like your role in the Great White Hope or something sometimes very small. That that confidence, how much that helps you as you start

going out and audition. It's amazing, right, yeah, yeah, no, it's it's um And you know, in times I realized it was also physical because I used to think his kids, you have to look a certain way of these guys because they look this way. Then they got that or But it's really it's not that. It's it's all about what you carry with you. It's all about that inner thing and that's what people buy, you know, And when you're stressing in your worried or you don't think you're

you know, I, I don't know. That's something that we find it. You know, it's always there, but we have to find that the courage to to allow ourselves to be maybe a little selfish, a little arrogant, little competent. Right, you know, I believed with all my heart that I'm the best. There is nobody better, I mean, you know, right, And it makes a huge difference, it does. Uh, these roles you're booking Dukes of Hazard, a team incredible whole high Cliff manner. Are you are you? Are you happy

with the roles? That you're getting. Are you excited to be working? Oh? Yeah, I was just I mean, I was really excited to be working. I was I'm in the game now, but and I assume that it's going to build to get that that role that's going to transform, and now I'm I'm on top of the game. And that was always elusive. You know, I was working, working, working. Even now at this fifty years later, you know, I kind of go, yeah, but that role I need. Uh, I haven't had that role. I haven't had that that

that what the great White Hope. I just was able to every time I did the show and went home, I was exhausted. I bought everything I knew to the work. I haven't been able to usual that. I get stuff like we don't need all what you got, We just need you to do this and then get out of the way so the other guy can do his thing. So you know, I'm not asked for all of me and and I'd love to it kind of like Jamie Fox when he did Ray, I just felt like, Okay,

everything that Jamie Fox had went into that role. I haven't had that yet, and so and I've been looking for it. I assumed though that that would come next, and it's sort of never never, kind of did you know, roles changed? You know, early on it was kind of the because of physicality, you know, you know, they're heavy, you know, and then I became best friends and then

it became you know, so the work. I was never locked into a thing because honestly, I was always looking for adjusting whatever I needed to do to get the roles. So if I needed to be funny, if I needed to be whatever I needed to do to get the role, and uh, I have friends who there. It was a little bit more limited, but they worked because they sold this this thing that they do and people love that, you know. But I I was always like, no, got it. And that was a single dad, so they had a

lot to do with with it too. So yeah, in eight to eight three, moving into you, well, you made Ivan Reitmann and you get cast, as Winston's said, are more in Ghostbusters. Tell me about your casting story. How did how did it come about? Well, the I Henry Winkler was doing a television series he was producing at ABC called The Ryan's Ryan's Four. It was about four doctors and I got the audition and I wanted man to play a doctor on TV. That was like that,

I just had to have this role. I went in and I killed it, and they but they said they ABC really liked me, and the producers really liked me, but Henry was not so love me. So they wanted me to go back and auditioned for Henry. And so I went back in and as I was walking into the room and they called me and Henry was leaving, so and I was like, man, so and I went in. I did the little dance came out. I got a call from the agent later on saying bad news. You

didn't get Ryan's four. And I was like, but you got this movie called Adventures in the Creep Zone shooting in Vancouver, and I'm like Adventures in the Creep Zone that I was really depressed. Well, Adventures in the Creep Zone was a movie that Ivan Rightman would be producing and with Peter Strauss and Molly Ringwall. So I did that movie, got a chance to work with Ivan. But the character in that movie was Washington, who was a guy who was sort of bigger than life. My head

was shaved, I talked in the lower register. He was just sort of one of those kind of bombassaing big guys, you know, And I think Ivan saw me that way. And so the first time I heard a ghost by because it was a year after I had worked with him on Space Center and I was visiting a friend

at Sea Signai Hospital and I have been ripe. I just happened to be there, got on the elevator and we're riding down and need you know, pleasant tries and then he said, oh, I'm I'm doing this movie Ghostbusters with a Billy and Danny, but there's nothing in it for you do when they're really fast. And said, okay, well that's uh, it's cool. And then I found out that there was a role that were casting looking at Black So but I think at one point they saw everybody,

but I've been they've refused to see me. So it took me probably it feels like three months. It might have been two months. I don't know, but it took me a long time to finally my agent was able to get an audition. And that was because I even saw you in a certain way, I think so he saw me in a certain way. The character I've played in that movie would not work in ghost Busses because he was just you know, like I said, and it was he was over the top and that's what he

that's that was the character, you know. So but I went in and auditioned, and I thought, I, Um, Harold Ramos was in the room ivan his producers, and I killed it. I mean I got the script. At first. I got the script and I thought, oh my god, this is so amazing. If I get this role, I gotta get this role. Except I was a single dad. The rent was due. I needed his job. I just went in and then I got the feedback that they liked me a lot. They wanted me to come in

and screen tests. I'm thinking, but they had a camera in the room at the time, but okay, So I went back in and then they said, well, they really liked me and they wanted to come again. I think I did like six auditions and they still weren't satisfied. They said they were going to New York they were gonna see some because there and so this is going on,

like it just felt like forever. I made the mistake of calling um the casting director because I just needed to know, and I said, uh, I'm I'm going to Hawaii, and I didn't want to leave town in case this was going to happen. So what's going on? And she said, well, you know, I will let you know. Well, when they went to negotiate, they said, oh, Ernie wants a job because he's been calling casting director and so we don't

have to pay him anybody because he's so desperate. And they didn't and so, uh but you know, it worked out, but it was it was a struggle getting the job. And yeah, Ghostbusters was a probably the biggest learning experience I've had, and all my fifty five plus whatever years I've been doing this, it was while it was it was a struggle because it wasn't anything that I thought. You know, at first I got the movie, but you're not making that much money. I mean, I'm just lucky.

But the role was so amazing that I I get this role. Man, I know, I'm gonna just I'm gonna take Hollywood. And then I before we start chewing, they changed the role and they took all the meat out of it, and suddenly I'm coming in halfway through the movie and it's like, that's not what I signed up. I took no money because it's such a great role.

But now it's not a great role and so and and then I do the movie and then uh, in the movie, get ready, I'm not on the promotion, I'm not on these three guys, and I'm not in it. And so all the things are going to happen in Hollywood didn't happen. And and I'm stuck in an apartment. And now the movie is so huge that fans are coming to my door. Go on and on and on. So it was but all of it was me having to go, how do I how and why I adjust? And I think that is what has helped me to sustain.

How do I not be angry about this? But how do I what's going on? And how do I make peace with? And Harold Ramos was very helpful that way. Harold carried himself in a way that I thought, no matter what happens on the set, Harold is always you know, he just knows how to navigate. And I would watch him a lot, and I think I learned a lot. Just you know, you can't lose it. When I was a kid, you make me mad, I'll do this. You can't do that and not have a career. But you

can't not do it and hate yourself. You gotta find a way to still feel good about who you are and still allow life to happen the way it happens. And that's what Ghostbusters taught me. Yeah, Harold directed a number of episodes of the Office, and I was lucky enough to get to know him a little bit. What a what a kind yea even killed That's it's really interesting. I never thought about it that way, but yeah, you know, he directed some probably our most complicated episode out of

two hundred and six never never unflappable. Yeah, yeah, no, he um. I always sort of credit him. I mean, not taking any away from my environment, but whenever things would just get a little bit crazy a little bit, and that's all, Harold was always the one that pulled all the pieces back together, you know what I mean. He just had a way and and I always considered him.

I mean we never really what we did hang out a little bit, but I just really I was able to tell him later on at the Austin Film Festival, they asked me to present him with an award, but he just it meant a lot to me at that time. You know, when you're young, you get advice from friends and it's not the best advice you get upset, and he said, man, you ought to do this, said you

do something stupid. And then but it was nice having someone kind of it wasn't a mentor, but just my wife and I had been together for a number of years since before I came out of l A and we and I had been married once. It was awful. I didn't want to marry again, and we were together, but I was kind of not committed. And it was actually Harold who was getting married at the time. But

I realized that she was. They were there was the closest, there was a friendship, and that was what really mattered. You know. I think sometimes in Hollywood, you think you

got to marry this kind of person, you know. I mean, she wasn't the right color, she wasn't the right whatever, you know, even though she's my best friend and we have this very special bond, but it's not it's not what I need to do what I And then I think it was Harold that not for anything he said, but I'm like, yeah, that, I mean, I want someone I'm going to spend my life with and not someone

who looks a certain way or is approved by whoever. Yeah, and uh and I know, I don't think I ever said this to my wife, but I know that is what made me go. You know what, I don't I don't need anybody's approval to love who I love and UH always and I still together now what he six whatever years. But to make that final step, it was just seeing Harold his relationship with his UH with his wife was very very special. So I learned a lot in so many ways. Yeah, well, I mean it's a

huge obviously. I mean it's just it's almost reductive to talk about how huge the movie was. The opening weekend set box office records at the time, it's sat there for weeks being at the top. Is it? Is it a blessing or a curse for you? You know some things that's him, like curses end up being blessings. So I don't know what it was. All I know is at the time, once again I was a single dad. I need to work, and I thought, okay, this is going to open up my MOVI. And I've done some

movies before. I did a movie with John Candy called Going was a Going Deserved. I think it was Going deserved. I've done a few films before, but I thought Ghostbuster was going to open the door because it's what I always been told. Have been a big blockbuster movie, it means other things with a major studio. So I didn't make the money that I thought movie stars make. And you know, I'm living in a neighborhood. There's no gates, there's no kind of protection here, and suddenly I can't

get a movie. I cannot not get a movie. I can't even get an interview. I even Colombia, who produced the movie, who would invite me to come to their parties. We're doing movie they were doing sold the story with most of the black cast. I couldn't get an audition. It was like everything froze up. And that was like

I didn't understand why it was. It wasn't until they three years later, Nick Noley was doing a movie called Weeds, and I finally got an audition and I went in and I just had I had to have this role, and I got the role. And then I did I think six or seven movies back to back, and then Ghostbusters too happened and the same thing happened. Everything shut down. So I don't know. I don't know if producers thought that somehow, I don't know what why. I can't explain why,

but it did not. And that's when I went to do a lot of TV show, you know, because I wasn't getting filmed, which is what I wanted to do. Did you well, but let's hope for Ghostbusters too. They paid you a little bit more. They paid me a little bit more, but I think I got it. I think they paid me about as much as those guys per Diem was, you know, I mean, those guys each got timper scent of the box office gross. Okay, so so we we won't even go there. But they did

pay me more, and it was certainly more fun. Winston was established. But I will say, and I ain't ad at nobody, don't get me wrong here, but I will say that the character's cut out of half of the movie. Again, I'm like, where's Winston that? I mean, I opened the movie and then I disappear, and so none of that ever made sense. It still doesn't make sense. Fans are okay with it, but I never really understand. But you know, now it's a different time. Jason Reitman has sort of

taken over the Helm and ghost buses. You know, they're moving forward with it. I went to UM. I got invited to Chicago. They had a thirty year reunion release of the movie, and so I got invited to Chicago, go to the theater and introduced the movie and the whole thing. And I get to Chicago and I said, and it's the three guys on the I'm like, come

on thirty years later, guys, really, this is true. I did that Today Show and Al Roker, who's a big fan of the movie, and so they did the interview and then he said, Ernie, we have some gifts for you. And they gave me a little bag of Ghostbuster stuff which was two dolls, which wasn't one of mine. And then I got a T shirt. This is true. I'm on the Today's Show. They give me a T shirt and it's four guys on the T shirt, but it's Danny Ackroyd. Twice I'm not on the T shirt. I go,

this has to be delivered. I mean, somebody had to look at and I don't know. I don't know how to react on national TV. I don't know if I say something, if I don't say something. So I didn't say anything, but I'm like, so, anyway, some Ghostbusters person and I don't know, but it's uh, it's been interesting, to say the least. But the fans are amazing. They've

always been very kind. I remember having a discussion with one of the executive producers and Ivan, and the executive producers said, you know, the fans they think Once is just one of the Ghostbusters, Like, are you kidding me? That's what I thought too. But I love the franchise. I'm very happy. I've been um. And then I remember

I've been saying Once that. He says, you know, Ernie, you worked, you work more than all the other guys, and I go, yeah, because I had to make up trying to catch up with that tender said Ghostbusters answer the call, directed by Paul fig I was in that so I will tell I will tell you the story. I'll tell you this story. Very few people have heard this story. I don't think I've ever told the story before publicly. But I hope I don't get in trouble.

Alison Jones, who was casting director of the Office, and Paul fig who directed a lot of episodes of the Office. I get a call. It's about seven o'clock at night and from Alison Jones direct I think directly to me. We were friends, and she said, so there's this a little part. It's gonna be something bigger. It happens at the absolute climax of the movie. Paul said he needs you in the movie and I said, okay, okay, you

know there's and she goes, there's not much there. Who wants to m probably wants to do all this stuff on set. He needs you to come to Boston tomorrow the first flight of the day. And I'm like, what wait tomorrow, Like both are and I said okay, And I said how long will I be there? And she said, I don't know. So like, yeah, this is one moment. I mean, this is one moment in the movie. And so I fly, I fly to like five thirty in the morning, I'm getting up, I fly to Boston. I'm there,

and it is the climax of the movie. You got them swinging around, ghosts coming up, all the ladies are there, everything, And basically what happens is I come out in my bathrobe, dead pan a joke, get killed by a ghost and that's it. But because it was that there were all of these elements, we shot the same scene for like two and a half weeks. That kept getting interrupt it by Rain. I think I was there about a month, and um, and I was, I was. I was cut from the movie. Now I'm back in. I think cut,

but I was cut. That's my Ghostbusters experience as well. So well, if you were there for a month, you made a whole lot more than I did, because they were like, we want you in the movie and uh, and I'm like, guys, uh, you make it seem like I'm asking you to be in the movie. But so, but you're You're not a Ghostbuster, You're the uncle. Did that? I'm like, really, because that makes any sense to me. But I love all the person Let me say I enjoyed the movie, and I love all the ladies. They're

all incredibly funny. I think there was a lot funnier if they weren't trying to be a version of us. But that's another story. But but yeah, I did not understand what I was doing and they were. The offer was so ridiculous. I though, heart, I'm not jumping up and down to necessarily go to work for you, so you gotta at least make it interesting. But but I love Paul, and you know, I drew working with him. I've never worked with him before and now after after life,

this is it's all. It's just coming back and this is this franchise is coming, okay, and you're happy about I'm very happy. But well, I mean in the the end of the movie, you know, they do the credits, and so Winston has now done very well in life, and so I think he's connected. We have the scene and I said something about you know the ghostbus is My boy said, yeah, we just we were talking. Yeah, well you're a businessman, but you know you'll always be

a ghostbuster. Okay, So I I threw that line in at the end, So so hopefully I'll always be a ghostbuster. And uh, I know they're they're Jason is writing in the new script. I understand Sony has approved it. This understanding. I don't know, but I hope if there is, uh, I'll be in it and they'll be happy to have me enough to where it shows up in my bank account. But well we'll see. I never you know this, I

never take anything for granted or soon. I'm just very happy to still be you know, able to you know, hang out and talk to you guys like you man. I love me. I love your work. You know, just uh yeah, I'm a fan. So well, this is a blessing. Thank you so much. I'm such a big fan of yours. I have to ask you about one of my favorite shows.

I don't know what this says about me. You know, you talk to me earlier about well that you're a bit of a chameleon in a way, and that that your performance is not based on a persona that you have created that people want to see over and over, but it's about the character. And I have to mention. I mean, obviously it's a little bit of time after Ghostbusters, but you're getting cast in oz Oh. Yeah, as as Warden Leo Glenn. Were you excited about that opportunity, being

able to do something different? Yeah? Yeah, you know, I had to take what excites me. When people come to me and say we love your work, we're doing this and we like to have you come and work and played with us, that means so much. When I got to go on audition and and I don't even want to not actually, at this stage in my life, I don't do it anymore us Like you know what, guys, honestly, I'm unless it was a role that was so amazing So Tom Fontana was the senior writer producer on St Elsewhere,

you know, the series. Denzel was on it, and uh it ran for a while. I did a half season during the summer that the Second Ghostbus was on, and we would talk a while. But I got a call from him saying he was doing this series Odd to Place in a Prison and he said, you know, we always talked about working together. I didn't remember that, but I said, oh yeah, and he said, you know, and so I'm doing this and uh, you know, would you

like to come? And I'm like, yeah, you know, the fact that he cared enough to invite me that meant so much. And I love the character. But I was amazed at the the actor of the cast, the people. I still I just they showed up, and you know, when you're working with a group of people and they show up, you have to show up. I mean, and I love that. That's how they should casting. Never cast

as something as they'll cast down. I think the actor is kind of weakn so didn't anybody else It's but it's it was just a great cast and I'm so thankful to have been a part of it. And in fact, I just worked with Tom Fontana and that whole production crew on a serious call sitting on the hill with Eldess Hodge and Kevin Bacon, and it was so much fun to go and see those guys again. Your son appeared in OZ with you. Yes, yeah, yeah, my son

who did some acting for a while. He's now sometimes he produces things, but he's in the business educative he does I don't wait that, but he uh, he's only dabbles a bit. But he was in the one of the seasons of OZ and it was Yeah, it was great. I think he had a great time. You know. It kind of reminded me in this. At the end of that season, he gets killed, and so my character has

to go in and look at the body. And I remember when he's a little kid, he would say, Dad, you know, if you're going to die in a movie, tell me, because I don't want to see that. I don't, you know, I just I don't want to see you die in a movie. And so then it was kind of reverse since I'm going in there and I'm kind of looking at him like he was dead, and it was so weird, but but he was. He was wonderful on the on the series and yeah, it was. It was cool. Yeah, So I have to ask you about this.

I heard you a warden in OZ, a senior deputy officer in ten eight Officers on Duty, a detective later on in Desperate Housewives. You actually became a real life reserve deputy sheriff in San Bernardino County. How did this come about? Come about? What was what was this about? Well? I was asked to do a Ghostbuster after the first Ghostbusters. I would go to schools and and and talk to kids, you know, and make the monitary Ghostbuster. It's kind of a nice time to do. I got in by to

a school in Pasadena. I agree to go. They put me up by the hotel, spend the night, got up that morning, did the little thing. Checked out of the hotel. The staff comes over. They want me to sign autographs, which is and I'm I'm feeling pretty good about, you know, this nice thing that I did. I walked out, go into the garage and I walcome to the garage, I'm grabbed leave from behind these guys. They throw me to the ground. This guy got a chokehold on me. I'm

looking around trying to figure out what's going on. Something saying, don't fight back. I'm looking at these boots and now it's about fourteen cops and I'm on the ground and I I just kind of and then I hit their talking and the guy says, holy sh it, that's the guy. That's the guy, you know, the guy that's the Ghostbuster guy. And the guy who's holding me sort of jerks my head around and looked at me in the face and he said, oh man, this is oh oh. Man said

I'm sorry about that. So then they stammed me up, and I'm like, go on. So they dust me off and they're talking, but I'm trying to make sense out of this. I'm insulted. I feel like I should have I should have thought up, but I couldn't the police and then they said, I said what why did you? They said, well, oh man, he said, you know there was a robbery. This kid robbed a store. At that point of damn, fifty years old. This kid robs the thing.

And I fit the description? How did I fit the descriptions? Walked through the door. So they said, do you mind if we get an autograph? And I'm like no, I So I get in my current and I'm just I I hate myself because I didn't. It's just it was just anyway. I was living in up in the mountains Lake Carolhead and a friend of mine who was part of the police department, they ran a special community thing and and I told him the stories earn. He said, you know what you need. You need to get a badge.

He says, why don't you join become a deputy? Sure, whatever, and and well, in fact, we'll make you a sergeant. So I got a sergeant's badge from the San Berdino Department. You have to go and take the training and qualifying all that. So I did, but I did it primarily

so I would have me a sheriff's badge. If I ever got to stop, I can stage check my shield and it got me out of h I bought a new Porsche once, and I literally was driving this porch a hundred and fifteen miles an hour on a stretch on the one on one freeway, and I thought, oh my god, this thing is fast. I looked back and I see these lights, and I go, uh. And then the first thought was he can't catch me. I can all run it. I'm in a new Porsche. And then I thought nah. So I pulled over and he pulls

up and he's pissed. I mean, he's really, he's just really. So he comes up and uh, he said, your license, and I would have it. So when I opened my wallet, you see the badge with my license and he looks at it and he says, I guess I'm working in the wrong department and he walks away. So I was in Australia. I did a wrong you turn. I showed the bad but then I started getting fans who would

say this happened. They came in my home, they got the wrong place, they beat all these horror stories and so eventually I just gave a badge back and said, you know what, guys, I can't I can't represent because it's just too much going on, and so I don't have anymore. But that's my that's the honest that's the honest story. I did Steve Harvey Show once and I was telling you I was in a shift her from I said, yes, I said, but I took the training. I learned a lot. He said, what do you learn?

How to how they can kick your ass some wars? So anyway, that's that's why. Well, I mean, look your Your career has been truly unbelievable. I mean, you're you're still now fifty years later, acting in shows Bones, Law and Order, Secret Life of the American Teenager, Modern Family. I want to ask you about becoming Lily Tomlin's love interest in Grace and Frankie. I heard you were a fan of hers and of Jane Fonda, Is that right? You know what, when I first started this business, they

were already established. Jane Fonda. Jane Fonda, She's always been established. I mean, you know, it's especially asked me. They said it wouldn't be Jane Fonda's love interest, and I'm like, wow, there's a little trips age wise. I think, I don't know, but I got Barbararella that poster in my mind. I'm like, okay, I can I can work with that. And then they said, no, we want you to be Lily Tomlin's love interest. Now all I can see of Lily Tomas that big rocking chair.

You know. So, but when I met Lily, she's so lovely, and I just but I've been a fan of theirs. I had worked with Sam Waterson for on Law and Order and done a season of that. But but I just love Lily, and they're all amazing people. It was just just a pleasure. Lily so amazing, and she has a spirit that reminds me of my grandmother who raised me. There was something about her integrity, age, it's about and yet she's so down to earth. But when you say

to a woman, you remind me of my grandmother. Not the best thing, but she just she's an amazing person, wonderful actress. I just it was a real blessing too. And that's what I loved about that show. Was a lot of times they'll want me to be you know, he mentioned the detective things, So I gotta be tough. I gotta be something that doesn't feel natural, you know

what I mean. It's like I love telling stories, but it has to be true to the character for me to be able to play a character that was that I didn't have to be the bad guy or the just he was just a guy who liked this kind of quirky woman. And it opened a door to a whole new kind of fan base. I mean, older women suddenly started asking for photographs with the Ghostbuster kids. Uh, well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I have long admired your work and thank

you consider it. It's such a pleasure. I wish you nothing but the best moving forward. I know you've got Quantum Leap out, You've got You're just you you. You don't stop working, Ernie, and I love it. Well, thank you so much, man, I you know, well, it's it's mutual. Man. I really appreciate you, appreciate the work you're doing. I heard about your record setting cameos, but that's like, how did he do that that? You know, everybody's got to

be good at something. Everybody's got to be good at something. But but no, I appreciate you man, good luck. I wish we'd have more time to sort of hang out, like I said, you schedule but no worries. Thank you, thank you taking the time Quintum Leap. I should again mentioned that it's on NBC Monday nights, Family Businesses on BT Plus Fun. What a fun character that is? Yeah, it's yeah. So it's all good. Take good care and I'm always around mess we get a chance, we'll talk

to you, so look forward to it. Thanks Ernie, all right, thank you, all right, by Ernie. It was so great talking to you and getting to know you. Thank you for coming on the podcast. I could have talked to you all day. I am in awe of your career and just promised me this. Okay, the next movie that we're in together, let's actually appear in some scenes together. Okay, listeners, thank you for stopping by. It is always a pleasure getting to spend some time with you. Come back next week.

I promise I'll do my best to interview effectively an amazing guest. Now, can you guess who it's going to be? Because I'll never tell, but I'll see you soon. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Cats. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton m M