Danielle Fishel

think maybe it's too late at some point. I don't know specifically, it is too late to be on seventeen magazine. I think actually it is. It is. I don't think it's worth trying. I don't know. I don't think. So we'll talk after, we'll talk. We'll talk after. Hello. My name is Danielle Fishel. You may know me better as to Pango Lawrence and then eventually to Pango Lawrence Matthews. I am a TV director and an actor. Hello. Everyone, it is my pleasure to welcome you all back to

Off the Beat. I am your host, Brian baum Gartner, and I am thrilled and delighted today to welcome the one and only Danielle fishial a k a. To Panga Lawrence onto the podcast. Now, this is a little bit of a different episode today, all right. Danielle, she was only twelve years old when she got her start on

Boy Meets World. Boy Meets World, one of the biggest sitcoms of the nineties the t G I f days for those of you who remember, or we're alive now to give you a sense of just how ahead Danielle was. By the time myself and most of the cast of the Office even made it to Hollywood, she had already done Evans seasons of the show, making her a show

biz veteran before she was even twenty years old. Since then, she's gone on to star in many other projects, including the hit reboot Girl Meets World, and she's also just launched her own rewatch podcast, pod Meets World. I loved this conversation, all right. It was so interesting for me to hear about her challenges of being a child star, how much she had to endure that as an adult

working in Hollywood I was barely aware of. We talk about everything from teen comedy to her on screen relationships, to her first kiss being on screen, and finally playing a grown up version of her character over a decade later. Here she is the lovely and talented Danielle Fishal, Bubble and Squeak. I love Bubble and Squiger Bubble and Squeaker Cookie every moment. Lift over from the nut before. Hello, Hi, I'm so excited to see you, Danielle. I'm so excited to see you as well. How are you? I am

doing great. I I know that you are technically interviewing me, but I cannot even begin to have a conversation with you without asking what it's like to be on my favorite show, trash Truck. I love that you just did that miss reverse misdirection. See, it's your favorite show. You know you're not really demographic. You know what, I don't care. I my son, I my son. I don't even think it is quite your demographic. He just turned three, and it's a little I think I think it's I watch

it with him, and he loves it. He's into it. He loves trash Truck. But then you know, it's not as like it's not like Coco Melon, where it's like there's a bunch of all kinds of crazy things going on. And so after a few episodes, he'll want to like wander Away, and I'm just riveted I get to the next episode of trash Truck like it is truly my favorite. My husband put trash Truck socks in my Christmas stocking and I wore them recently to a con. I'm literally

a huge fan of trash Truck and specifically Walter. So I just have to thank you for that. Thank you so much. And I can say this because I truly had nothing to do with it. I think it looks so beautiful. I think it is like the animation that they did. I mean they took let me tell you, they took a long long time to to do it. I was told they built an animation studio. I don't like the South of France or something. It's very bizarre. I know. Yeah, thank you for bringing it up. I

tell everyone about it. I said, even if you don't have kids, you'll like trash Truck. It's just a great show. It's a trash Truck has the the appeal that like Bluey also has where adults just you. I mean, I've cried. I've cried a trash Truck. I've cried a Bluey. It's just it truly is it's it is beautiful, and it is so well done and so well written, and you guys are just you guys just really do a great job with it. So I just really had to thank you, well,

thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. Pre trash truck. Do you do you remember when we met? Do you do you remember when we met? I don't know. You don't remember when we met? No, but I have a I have a terrible memory where I'm on, I'm unpacking a lot of Why do I have a terrible memory on our own podcast? I don't know? Okay, please tell me the story. So we met in public on a stage on I Believe Live television. You and I we presented an award at the American Humane Association's Hero

the Hero Dog Awards. Of course, yes, I do that. I do it every year, do you. Well, that's why you don't. That's why you don't remember. That's at least what I'm gonna say, because that's why that was my one and only. I think they kicked me off after that. I went off. So you were you weren't? No, come on, you were wonderful. I am actually I am an ambassador for the American Humane Association, and so I vote every year.

I'm I'm part of the voting process for the Hero Dogs, and then I have when they've done it in person. I have presented every year, and then I've done it on zoom a couple of times too. But that is probably why. But I can't believe that. Yeah, I'm going to look up all of our pictures. But I do remember it now, of course I remember being It's it is weird how that happens when you present an award with somebody because you don't actually meet like early in

the evening. You meet about three minutes before you are put on stage and you have your script and you're getting a touch up, and then it's you know, you go out and you do your thing and then you part ways and I didn't see you again. That was that. That was it. Um, So yes, a long time ago. I want to go back, though even longer to your childhood. Now. You grew up in in Mesa, Arizona. Is that right? Well, that is something I clarify all the time. So I

was born in Mesa. I was born three weeks before my dad graduated college. But both my parents are native Californians. And so when my dad graduated, I was three weeks old and I moved to California. That is the amount of time I spent in Mesa. But it is on my Wikipedia page that I was born in Mesa. And so I still like every political cycle I get um like targeted campaigns like Danielle get the word out in Mesa, and I'm like, I don't have a real connection to Mesa.

I haven't been there since I was twenty one days old. But so I consider myself a native Californian because that is where I've lived since I was twenty one days old. That is very reasonable for you to consider yourself that. So you moved, So you moved. Then where did you move after twenty one days of life? It twenty one days of life. I made the trek to Orange County, California,

and I lived there until I was ten. And then it was kind of just a stroke of real luck that at the same age, like nine ten, I decided I wanted to be an actor. By the way, I did not really know what that meant. I didn't how could you possibly know? Really, I just knew that there was a very cool girl at my school that was a couple of years older than me who came to school one day and said, guess what, I got an

agent and I'm going to be a model. And I wanted to be like her, and so I went to my mom and I said, Mom, I want an agent. I want to be a model. And my mom said, Danielle, I love you, but you are very short. I am now a full grown human five one and my mom, you know, at the time, I was like nine years old. My Mom's like, models are very tall. You can't do that. So I went back to school the next day and I told the girl my mom said, I'm too short, and she said, oh, well, my agents are gonna put

me on t V two. I don't think you need to be tall to be on TV. And that was all I knew. That was it. I decided that that's all I needed. I met that requirement. I wanted to be on TV. And around that same time, my dad changed jobs from working in Orange County to working up more towards l A and so we moved to Calabasas and I started auditioning. Wow, so it was just about

trying to follow the cool kid. At this point, now had you done, like like like, had you done any You hadn't done anything at this point on a stage like in school, elementary school. Yes, I was the ballerina in The Wizard of Oz. Remember when like Dorothy arrives in munchkin Land. I think it had like two lines, But I basically just had my arms up in the air and walked in on my two two and did something with the Lollipop Guild and then and then wandered out.

And that was the extent of my stage experience. It wasn't even that that made me go, wow, the stage life is for me. It was really just that I wanted to be like the cool you wanted to fall the cool girl. You see. I don't Do you think that there's a cultural thing about now that I know you weren't really from mas Arizona. Do you think that there's something about like growing up in southern California that it's it's more a part of more people's experience. Do

you think that that's true. Possibly, it wasn't in Orange County where I at the time, where I lived in Orange County, It's not. I wasn't beach Town, Orange County. Even I was like, you know, Inland way in len youre Belinda, California, and we knew no actors. We didn't. It was there were there was nothing about that going on. Um I just knew that like the idea of auditioning and trying to do stuff on television sounded fun. But I also my mom. My parents fought against it for

a full year. They were like, absolutely not, We're not putting you know, there was, especially in the early nineties, there was like a lot of you know, derogatory thoughts about child actors, like, oh, being a child actor is terrible and you you grow up to you know, Rob Banks or something like they you just there were it felt like there was no good that could come from this, and so they kept telling me no and and no,

this isn't for you. And then eventually when they agreed, my mom said to my dad, look, let's just let her try it. We all know how everyone's heard about how hard this is. What are the odds she's even going to book anything? She'll try it. We will have given her the opportunity, she won't do anything, and then she'll get over it. Like that was there. Their only

reason they agreed is because this is going nowhere. And um, and so then they we did the we did the thing you had to do back then, which when there was no digital way of communicating with agents. My mom read a book that was like how to Get your Kid into Acting for Dummies. And in the in the book it said, here is a list of agencies, and they're mailing addresses. And my mom took pictures of me on our regular film pictures of me, and then printed them out and mailed copies of them with a letter

about me, my age and why. You know what I said, I I wanted to do this, and and here are some yes that she wrote and sent them to these agencies. And I think we sent them to maybe ten agents, and we heard back from maybe six of them, and they were interested in meeting with me. It was pretty good, pretty good, and so we Yeah, my mom took some great pictures. You know, I was photogenic and my mom was a great photographer. And so we went to those meetings.

And I remember being a little girl sitting in these meetings with agents and hearing them, you know, talk about my experience, and it was like nothing unless you count this to two role I had in in elementary school and um, I ended up signing with an agent. I signed with Kelman Arletta and the first thing she said was I'm going to put you in a commercial workshop class. And so I got put into like an acting class for commercials and um, and then I started auditioning from there.

So you're I'm doing the math here quickly. It's difficult for me. You're ten then roughly right? Ten? Yes? Yes? So this is this is your your ten years old and you start this process and at this point you don't know, you don't know anything. And by the way, I have to say for people who don't understand, taking a photo on your cameras and you know, your home camera is not usually how this is done. You usually go and you get a professional photographer. It's called a

head shot, and you have that done. You don't put a five seven that mom took uh in the mail and expect to hear anything back. So there was clearly something that people saw. So okay, so your ten is this fun? Then this class that you take about auditioning for commercials? Yeah, it was incredibly fun. I you know, I was a very bubbly, fast talking ten year old girl, and when you're looking for ten year old girls and commercials that is like kind of what you're looking for,

and so I think there was something. I think what people saw in me was that without like my instinct was perfect for ten year old girl commercials. And so the class was very fun. I remember I have it on video somewhere and it's one of my favorite videos. It's me and another little boy and they were having

us pretend to be doing a Skittles commercial. And you know, both of us are up there in front of the camera and it's his turn to pretend that he has the skittles, and the person next to him is like, can I have a skittle? And and the boys supposed to go Skittles, Skittles, you want some? And the boy is going Skittles, Skittles, you want And you can hear the teacher go okay, let's do it again, but with a lot of energy. You know, we want to sell skittles.

Skittles are the greatest. You know, imagine you're in They want to know that you love skittles. And he's doing it again, and he does it very much the same way. And then it's my turn to be the person with the skittles, and he hands me the Skittles and I go Skittles Skittles and he literally jumps out of his skin, like what the heck was that? I literally startled him with my enthusiasm. So yeah, for me, it was it

was a blast. Right. So this is like, uh, this is like a I don't know, kids play soccer or you know they go to music class or you know, dance ballet, whatever. This is. This is like your after school activity and you're having fun with it. That's exactly right.

And I loved every minute of it. And then I got an audition and it was for It was my first audition ever and it was for Mattel and it was, UM this Mattel commercial where these dolls there were three dolls and one of them UM had braids, and you got fake scissors and you could cut her hair and and you pulled from the back of her head this area where the braids were connected, and that's how it looked like you were cutting at the braids just got shorter,

and then another one another. It was It's very creepy. I have a I have a screen recording of the commercial. UM A little girl who has an ice cream cone. When you put the ice cream cone to her mouth. It makes like an ice cream ring around her lips, and and then the doll um. The third doll was you push a button in the top of her head and two front teeth come out of her gums. She gets her first teeth. So I get this audition and I'm very excited for it, and I go in. My

mom takes me. You know, it's a long drive in traffic. Do I'm doing my homework in the car on the way there. And we get into the audition and my mom's biggest concern, She's told me, now my biggest Her biggest concern with me going into acting was that there was going to be a lot of rejection, and she didn't want the rejection to beat me down as a child. She didn't want me to feel like it was my fault if I didn't get something, or like, well, what

was wrong with me? And so she she would talk to me about the fact that it was probably that I was going to get told no a lot often. So on the way there, you know, she's saying, you know, Remembers is your first audition. It's fun, like she's trying to make everything light and I'm like, yeah, but I'm nervous. I don't know what it's going to be. And I go in and I do the audition. I come out and my mom goes, how did it go? And I go, great, I got it and she goes, what did did they

They tell you you got it? And I go no, I just I just I feel it. I just I nailed it. I got it. And she's like, oh my gosh. We get in my car and she goes, no, you know, Danielle, this isn't how this works. You you were going to go in for so many auditions and you're gonna you're gonna be told no way more than you're gonna be told yes. And this is your first audition. Because I was like okay. I was like, but Mama, you know

I got it. She's like, oh man. So we go home and the next day I get a call back. She's like, wow, Danielle, guess what. You get a callback? You have to they want to see you again. And I go see, I told you, And she's like, well, callback isn't booking it, but yes, this is a good sign. You're you're getting closer. So I go in, I do the audition again. I come out. My mom goes, how

did it go? And I go, great, I got it, and she's like, okay again, Hope, I know you're closer, and you know you did last yesterday And I said, yeah, you know, yesterday you told me I wasn't I didn't get it, and today I got a call back. She's like, that's true, but still just trying to like temper my expectations. And then I did book the commercial, and my mom

was like, great, Now what do I do? Now? I know I have to like convince you that just because you got this one doesn't mean you're gonna get all of them. And of course, you know, I I ended up getting my share of rejection. But I just think it's funny that I walked out with so much confidence. And then I was like, I told you that is uh, that is unusual. That is that it does not usually work that way. No, you had no experience. You take this class and start booking commercials. At what point does

your agent think, well maybe she should audition. Well, she's got to have a lot of confidence that your first job you booked, I know how this thing works, So that's she's got to feel good about that, and so she must fairly quickly start submitting you for actual television roles, right, yeah, yes she does. She starts submitting me for guest starring roles on different shows, and I book uh an episode of Harry and the Henderson But yeah, it was a

featured a featured extra. Basically, I didn't say anything. And then she submits me to I auditioned for full House, and I book full House and I played the role of Jennifer two and Jennifer two um was only Jennifer two because her friend that was there with her was also Jennifer. And so the line in the show was that the girl says, Hi, I'm Jennifer, and I said, Hi,

I'm Jennifer too, not the number two. But also, and as you could probably tell from the way I just did that line, Jennifer two was not that much different than just regular Danielle that had been doing all of the commercials. So again, I know nothing of what acting actually is. My experience thus far from ten to twelve was that if you just go in and say somebody else's words exactly the way you would say them, you

will eventually book a job. Some at some point in time, someone's going to be looking for just who you are, and so those were the rules I had booked before I got the audition for Boy Meats World. That's unbelievable. Let me ask you about this. You know, I've talked to a lot of people about how difficult it is to just step in as a guest star to anything. Now, are you intimidated about this or you just like, oh, no, I've got this and you're totally relaxed about it. I

was pretty relaxed about it. I think I just had so much confidence. I have no idea why I had so much confidence, but I really I think I remember being told in my commercial workshop class and in my auditions that I was directionable, like I took direction well, I listened and I could respond. And I was that way as a child with my parents, and I was that way as a student. I was kind of just yeah, if you tell me what I need to do, I'll

get it done. And so I was really excited to walk into the set a full house, and they made it very easy too. They first of all incredible directors. Rich Correll directed my first episode, and I think joel's Wick directed my second episode that I did. And you know, these are people who've done now at this point thousands of episodes of TV, and UM, you know, they got it. They were working on a kid's show. They knew how to be funny and and um, how to talk to

us and how to make us comfortable. I think the first thing Rich Carrell said to me was, you know, I said, Hi, I'm Danielle, and I extended my hand to shake his hand, and he said, hi, I'm rich that's my name. But I also say that to all the ladies. UM, and I you know, I knew he was making a joke, and and it was just like I felt right at ease, and and then no one made me feel like there was I was going to do something wrong or I was going to screw anything up.

It was it was a very fun collaborative environment. And I mean I walked around and on tape night took pictures with every cast member. I've got all the my with my mom's camera. That same camera that that got me in the door with the agents is now taking pictures with John Stamos and Bob Saggett and Candice Camera and Jody Sweeten. So it was a it was so fun.

Do you feel like this experience helped you get an audition for Boy Meets World or was that just again, just another audition that your your agents submitted you on. I don't know if it helped me get the audition. It may have being on Full House, but it definitely didn't help me in the audition because I went in an auditioned for the role of Tapanga and I did

not even get a call back. And then the next day I got an audition for a different role on the same show, Boy Meets World, but for a character who I don't even think had a name. She had two lines, and I booked that one, and I then showed up on the set of Boy Meats World and I got to see who they did cast as to Panga, and I was watching the director work with her, and the director was David Trainer, another legendary TV director, And

it was my very first acting lesson. It was the moment I can remember the moment when the light bulb went off in my head. Oh, I could say things differently than how I would say them. When I read that this character to Panga is a flower child, a slow speaking flower child, I should pay attention to that, and I should adjust the way I speak to try and match maybe what they're looking for instead of just

say ing it just like me. And I saw David Trainer working with this girl they had cast as to Panga, and I had that feeling you get when you're like, oh, I want to try again. And I of course knew that that was an unprofessional thing to do, and so of course I did not do that. I just let them work together. And the end of the day on Friday, before I was going home, uh that one of the producers came up to my mom and I and said, UM, we'd like you and the other girl that you're here

with that have a couple of lines. We'd like you to read a scene for the producers. And the scene they wanted us to read was a to Panga scene, and I suddenly realized that they were possibly recasting to Panga and now I had a second chance to do it. And Marla sockle Off, another fantastic actress who has gone on to have a wonderful career and is also now

a director. She and I were the two girls auditioning again for this part, and she went in first, and I was sitting outside the door, and my mom and I were sitting there next to each other, and we could hear Marla and the producers and the casting director

just laughing and talking and having a great time. And then they walked out and Sally Steiner, the casting director, followed behind her mom and said, I need every phone number for you, because you know, this is a Friday night and you're gonna if if she gets it, she's gonna have to come back on Monday. I'm gonna have to get in touch with you over the weekend. And this is before cell phones or computers or so. I need your page or number, I need your agents number,

I need your facts number. Give me all the numbers. And I remember watching all of that right before I go in for my audition, like that must have gone very well. That does not make me feel very confident walking into this. And then I went in next and I did my audition, and I walked out, and nobody followed behind me. Nobody asked us for phone numbers, nobody needed to get in touch with us. And I walked

out of the office. My mom and I got to the car, and the minute I sat down in the car, I burst into tears and I said, I didn't get it. I had a second opportunity to get this, this bigger part, and I'm the drive home. My mom says, you know, we have to call your dad because at this point I was supposed to be home two hours later or two hours earlier. My dad didn't know where we were. And thankfully we had a big Zach Morris car phone, you know the big Yeah, they connected in the car.

It cost like sixty dollars a minute or something. I plugged into the lighter is the most expensive giant piece of equipment. And I called my dad and my dad said, you know where are you? Am worried about you guys, And he said, okay, well there was this girl and she's playing te Peanga and they asked me to audition. My Dad's like, what hold on, hold on, I'm getting a call waiting, and then he comes back and he says, that was someone named Sally Steiner and she told you

to come back on Monday as to Panga. And I just screamed at the top of my lungs and looked at my mom and was like my mom then started screaming, and we said we'll see you sitting into my dad. We'll see. It was a zinging and I hung up the phone. Then I showed up on Monday and I was to Panga. Did you hear an explanation about the Marla situation? And then you feeling like that they were going to hire her or were they just making her feel well? I no, I don't think they were making

her feel good. She had she was the first audition, and so I think that. And and Marla lived up north at the time, and that weekend she was driving back up north to be with her family. And so unlike my family who lived in Calabasas and wasn't going anywhere, they knew how to get in touch with my family. I think there was a little bit of fear that if Marla was the person who booked it, she's out

of town, how do we find her? Um? And so I think it was you know, part part of that was information I didn't have at the time, right, Wow, So okay, so you you get this role to pay. It's supposed to be one episode. That was it. It was just going to be the one episode. But it was also written in a way where it was um left open enough at the end that there was still that feeling of but she could come back. It was it was like it was only going to be one

episode but also potentially recurring. Okay, no, yeah, one of those one of the one of those that generally they're just trying to get somebody to do it and then it never sees the light of day again I'm familiar with. And you never come back. You never come back again. Um, do you start coming back immediately? No? Not immediately. I do that first episode and uh, it goes well by

the time the week is over. It was a It was a bit of a roller coaster week because on day one I I didn't deliver the amazing performance that Michael Jacobs wanted, and he told me at the end of the producer session, in front of the cast and crew and everyone, he said, Danielle, I'm going to save all of your notes for the end, because if I made everybody sit here for all of the notes I have for you, nobody would be able to go home.

So I will save all of your notes. But what I will say is that if you don't show up tomorrow doing this entirely differently, you will also not be doing this role and cut the road twitters. I immediately welled up my eyes. I had tears just like, I don't even know how I tears didn't fall. I don't remember them falling, but maybe they did, but I just

remember feeling like, oh my gosh. And then you know, Michael's kind of famous for his very elaborate note sessions, and so then I had to sit there for over an hour while he gave everyone else notes, and I just had to sit there quietly and waiting, waiting, like wondering, what are my notes going to be? What did I do? How am I this bad? Um? If I'm so bad? Why did I get the role? Like? Why? You know?

I don't understand. And then afterward, Michael sat my mom and I down in the Matthews family kitchen and went through every single one of my lines and what he was looking for and how I did it wrong and

what I needed to change. And my mom and I went home that night, and my poor mother, she stayed up with me until like three or four o'clock in the morning, working with me, just getting me, you know, reminding me of the things Michael said he wanted and how I could do that and do it again but slower and do it again but you know, calm er, just whatever the notes were, and I went back then the next day Tuesday, and rehearsed all day again with

David Trainer, who was wonderful and very supportive and made me feel very safe. And we then did the network run through that night, and Michael stood up and said, I'd like everyone to stand up and join me, and giving Danielle a round of you know, a standing ovation, a round of applause. You have worked so hard, you did exactly what I asked of you. Thank you so much. You know, this was wonderful, and now sit down. And then I got to participate in a regular note session.

And then the next day we started taping UM and we did that episode, and no, I did not come back then immediately. I wasn't in like the next several but I was back probably probably within three to four episodes after that. I came back for another one UM.

And you could tell now is when they were trying to start playing around with maybe the idea that Topango was going to be some sort of love interest for Corey and and you could tell that this was something they were going to try to work and see if they could make me a recurring character. Wow, that's that's so amazing. Of course, I go back to your mom staying up with you until three o'clock in the morning, when it wasn't even what she had initially wanted for

you from the beginning. But I obviously at this point she's very supportive and just wanting, you know, the best for you. Um. You then go on, obviously to be a huge part of the show. You become a I mean, I think massive Star is not overstating what happens to you over the next several years. When did you realize I think it might be. I think it might be, but I mean, look this this let me be clear, Okay, this show was not my specific demographic at that time

in my life. Yet I was very aware, very aware of of of you and what was going on on that show. Even at that point in time, when did you realize that the show was going to be uh so big and that this was going to change your life? You know, It's funny, we talked about it all the time now that there wasn't a moment while we were doing the show ever where we felt like we were

a hit for some reason. Now we knew that the T G I F block we were on ABC Timetime Friday nights, there was that two hour block from eight pm to ten pm, and Family Matters started the block and then it rolled into Boy Meets World and Sabrina the Teenage which was on after that, and you know, like we knew that that section, that eight to ten pm slot was successful, but Boy Meets World was not like a mass of hit at the time. It actually became more of a massive hit after it went off

the air. We were on for seven years, but every year we had that feeling of, oh boy, we're on the bubble. We're we're really on the bubble. I I we don't know if we're gonna get picked up. Yeah, we didn't know if we were going to get picked up. From season to season, there were there were talks that it was never that it wasn't going to get picked up, and then we were always shocked when it did. And we like even ratings wise, I mean, now we look at the ratings and we think, wow, what must that

be like to have a twenty four share? Like whoa crazy? But back then we were like not even the first or second or even third thing going on that night, Like we you know, there were much bigger things going on. So I don't think while we were on the show,

I felt like the show was a hit. Also, the lack of social media meant we had no real feedback, Like I think, to a certain extent, I felt like we did a show for our parents and grandparents, Like we put on this big production for our grandparents to watch, and maybe some other people saw it too, but I had no idea how many, and I had no idea what they thought of it. Like, I didn't know whether

people liked it or anything. I just had no real feedback. Yeah, but you start you know, you're on seventeen, You're on the cover of seventeen, your teen People, Hottest Under twenty one. I mean, this is happening. It's so interesting. You know, you start out your twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old and you're not you know, maybe even cognizant of big media in general, and the social media doesn't exist at that point. That makes some sense to me, But you have to

know at a certain point. Yeah, I think I also thought though, with like you're talking about teen magazines and you're right, doing the cover of seventeen was a very big deal. I think I definitely felt when I got that, I was like, WHOA really they're gonna let be on the cover of that. I do remember feeling like that was a moment of I've made it. But also I think I, you know, you had publicists, and you knew that it was someone's job to like go out after

these things and get these things for you. I think I always just thought, well, like, I think I recognized that the business aspect of it, more so than feeling like, well, they're they're agreeing to let me be on the cover because the show really is that big of a hit. I don't know that I thought about it that way, but I do know for sure that, yes, the cover of seventeen, I felt like, wow, I this is the biggest I mean, it's still maybe to this day, the

biggest thing I've done. Well, I don't think it's the biggest thing you've done. But I have never been on the cover of seventeen magazine. Let's be very very clear about that. Do you want Do you want to? I could probably, I could see if I have any connections, maybe I could go, well, yeah, I don't, because you know, it's never too late. I mean, maybe it's too late at some point. I don't know specifically, it is too late to be on seventeen magazine. I think actually it is,

it is. I don't think it's worth trying. I don't know, I don't think. So we'll talk after, we'll talking, We'll talk after you're you know, you're playing a kid living a fairly normal life. You at this point are not. You're I want you to talk a little bit to people about your experience. So you're going to school now, I assume largely on set, So you have what you have one teacher or did you guys have a teacher for for everybody who was, you know, of of school age.

At the very beginning of the show, they had one teacher, a fantastic guy named David Holmes, who is a true genius and was very well versed in a lot of different subjects. And that first season we were doing school

in a trailer. We weren't even on the stage. It was a trailer that they had converted to a schoolroom, and we had little cubbies of the trailer that were for each of us and David would you know, sit and work with one student for a while and then move on to the next students, see where they were, see how they were working on their work. But I for as much as I loved acting and I loved being on set, school not the educational aspect of it so much, but the social life of school was very

important to me. I didn't want to miss out on it. And at this point, you know, in that first season, I'm still just a recurring character, so I was regularly going back to my regular school, and even then after I became a series regular on Boy Meats World, every hiatus week I went back to my regular high school, which meant I had to be to the day on the subject material with the rest of the students at

my school. Because for a lot of kids doing you know, TV shows, you do the entire school year on set, and then if you follow a week or two behind, it isn't the end of the world, because on that hiatus week you're just going to do extra school and you'll catch up. But because I made it a little difficult on myself by wanting to go back, I had to always be caught up exactly where my the rest of my school was um but that gave me the

best of both worlds. I got to be an actor on a set and living that life, but I also got to go to every football game at my high school and every school dance, and you know, I got to experience right notes to boys in the hallway like I also got that experience. That's important. Um, how how are you treated at school? You know, you're now a

TV star going back to school? How was that? Yeah? Well, unlike when I was in Orange County and no one around us were actors, I was now living in Calabasas, which a lot of famous people and a lot of actors and actor children are going are living in Calabasas, And so I was not the only actor at my junior high. I was not the only actor at my high school. I may have been the maybe for at least a period of time, maybe the most regularly working actor,

but I was definitely not the only one. And so in junior high I was made fun of a little bit because I had just moved from Orange County right before the beginning of sixth grade, and everyone else had come from elementary schools where they knew each other, and so I was definitely the odd person out. And it

was very rare to have to be. You know, one a kid is here for three weeks at a time and then all of a sudden, They're gone for two weeks, and then they popped back in, and so I was made fun of them, and people called me princess, like they thought I was giving special I was getting special treatment because I was able to leave for two weeks. Um. They didn't understand that I was also like really working during that time and still doing school. So junior high

was rough. But then, you know, by the time I made it to high school, it was all that same group of people from junior high. I had really well established myself there. I had a great core group of girlfriends are still my best friends to this day. And moving into high school, I think I was mostly just treated kind of like everybody else. It wasn't as um awkward as you would think it is. That's cool. Um. A couple of things I want to talk about, Tapanga.

Your relationship with Corey played by Ben Savage. How did you navigate that with likely at that point little relationship experience outside of that. How was that for you or did you feel some responsibility or nervousness sort of going through that maybe for the first time, you know, on

television in front of people. Yeah, I don't know that there's ever been a time where I've been more nervous than that first week of Boy Meets World, that one we talked about where I got the audition, I had to kiss Ben and I had never kissed anyone in my entire life. And it was made even more difficult by the fact that Tapanga was so self assured and to Panga was so confident in her decision to kiss Corey.

The episode was that Corey had straightened his hair and he looked goofy, and Topanga said, wouldn't it you know, wouldn't it be interesting if I kissed you right now, so that you always remembered that your first kissed was

when you thought you looked your worst. And so she was so confident, and inside Danielle was like, what, not only had I never kissed anybody before, but I had certainly never kissed anybody in front of a live studio audience that's also housing my grandparents and my parents, like everyone is there, and you know, we we we didn't rehearse the actual kiss throughout the week because we were twelve, and I don't think anyone felt real comfortable with like, yeah,

just all day today, you guys are just gonna kiss against this locker for as many times as we're gonna rehearse it. It It was kind of like, we'll save it. We'll save it. Also, they wanted that nervous energy because it is supposed to be Corey's first kiss, and so by the time we got to tape night, I thought for sure there was no way I was getting out of that without paying my pants. Like I there was

just I was so nervous. And we recently watched the episode again for our rewatch podcast, and I was shocked at how not nervous I came across. And I was like, I was like, I don't normally give myself a lot of props, especially not in the acting department, because as you've heard, I didn't know anything I was doing. But I somehow was not physically shaking, and I somehow had a real steady voice to myself. And I looked at was watching it and I was like, I believe that

I'm confident here, and I wasn't. I was nervous and Ben was nervous. We were both very nervous um and then you know, you you do it and you get the first one out of the way, and then you're a little bit like okay. That that that that didn't nothing happen, the place didn't burn down. I feel okay, And then you do it a couple more times, and then after that, you know, by the time I came back,

there weren't kissing scenes again for a long time. It wasn't I don't remember when our next kiss was, but it's not like by the time I came back, I was suddenly his girlfriend and we were kissing all the time. So I don't remember when the next time was. But I do remember for sure feeling like by season two and season three, like I had just started having crushes

on boys. I didn't know anything about relationships, but to Pango was very worldly and knew a lot, and so I think the biggest challenge for me was just pretending I was confident. Uh. William Daniels, who I have long admired as an actor, played Mr Freeney the principal. Who Yeah, Mr Feenie, Mr Feenie, Sorry, Mr Feenie. Um, it's Dwight Freeney, football player. This is Mr Feenie. Sorry, Right, How was it working with him? Were you aware at that time?

I mean, he is at this point one two Emmys for saying Elsewhere, he as an established actor with kind of an incredible career at this point, Well, did you feel lucky to be able to work with him? I mean, I would like nothing more than to say that twelve year old Danielle felt lucky to work with Bill Daniels. But twelve year old Danielle was so not cultured or really even aware. I don't think I had ever even heard of st Elsewhere, much less been aware that Bill

had won two Emmys for it. I did know, however, that he was the voice of Kit from Night Writer. Yes, and I remember when he you know, we've talked about it now a couple of times that we all thought Bill was from England. We all thought he was British, and um, and he he is not. And we I remember, Um. We all remember hearing Bill leaned forward and talked to Michael Jacobs during notes, and he'd leaned forward and say well Michael, and we would go we just heard it.

We heard Kit. We heard Kit from Night Writer say Michael, and it was like it felt like a cheat that we got, like we asked him to say a line from the show and it was really just him talking to our executive producer. But it was you know, I

didn't know that, but I can't say that. I I wish now I look back and I think of all the stories of all the actors we worked with, all the adults, and the history they had, and I think, man, how did I not seize that opportunity more to talk to them about their origin stories and how they got started and really you know, asked them all these questions.

But I was you know, when you're twelve, you're just like really laser focused on your own life and what's going on, you know, and then the minute and the minute you're not in the scene anymore, they're like, now you got to go to school, like you you have your your day is so different than when you are an adult actor on a show. Yeah, that's true. I do have to share with you that was my my

first celebrity sighting as in my life. Uh. I was a kid from Georgia and I came to you Reversal Studios and did the tour and on the back lot I saw Kit and that to me was the coolest thing ever. That was It was like, oh, that's kid, that's the night rhetoric. That was that car, that was that was my first celebrity siding. That was your first celebrity siding, was Kit. That's amazing. Bill is in. Bill is incredible. What a career. We just uh, we talked

to him recently. We interviewed him for our podcast and we finally got to ask all the questions we wish we had even thought to ask when we were kids, and just his experience and his knowledge, and you know, one of the things we really appreciated about working with him was that he never he didn't ever like correct us or give us advice really, which you'd think, well, that sounds like a bad thing, like, wouldn't you want his advice, and we would have been open to it,

of course. But Bill made us feel very much like equals with him. He he he treated us regardless of the fact that we were twelve and probably obnoxious sometimes and goofing off and not taking it nearly as seriously as he was. He really respected our process and really let he thought of us as his equal, and we felt that way with him. We felt very respected by him, which is not something you you always feel as a kid. You know. No, that's that's awesome. I'm so glad to

hear that about him. Um, is it true you took Lance Bass to your prom? I sure did. Lance Bass is Uh was my first I guess I would say, my first real serious boyfriend. And I was seventeen and I brought him to my senior prom and it was so much fun. We had a great time. And uh, I mean, Lance and I are still very Lance and I are very close. We actually just we just texted last night. His unfortunately, his grandmother passed away, and we were talking about memories we have of her, and he said,

I don't know. He said, I wish I had more pictures. And I went down into my garage and I pulled out a bunch of pictures from the time that I went to Mississippi to meet Lance's family, and I had all these fantastic stick pictures of us with his grandmother, And so I sent him to him last night. Oh that's so nice. Oh I love that. Yeah, we have a great relationship. Oh that's great. I'm not sure why a romantic relationship didn't work out. I know, it's a

mystery to me as well. I've gotten to know him a little bit as well. He's he's a he's a great guy. Um. He is, and so is his husband, and and they're fantastic two babies that I just got to meet at the end of May, and they're they're a wonderful family. So the show ends after seven years, and you you took an acting break. I sure did, and that was on purpose. Well, I I would say it was on purpose, and also then not on purpose.

The hardest part of going from being a child actor to being an adult actor is one having people take you seriously and not wanting them you know, they want to pigeonhole you. But also too, you have to strike while the iron is hot. And that's a thing I've really learned in the entertainment industry, and I unfortunately just didn't understand that, didn't know that that was necessarily as true as it is. I by the time Boy Meats World ended, I had definitely taken it for granted. Definitely

season six, definitely season seven. I was over it. It was you. We had been on it for a long time. I had been in school the entire time, and again I took school, you know, not seriously so much from the education standpoint, but I was going back all the time, and I just felt like I wanted freedom. I just wanted to get away. I was now going to be nineteen years old when the show ended, and I didn't have to go to college. I didn't have plans to go to college. I just wanted a break, and so

I took that break. And then by the time I was ready to get back into it, nobody cared to have me. And I wasn't auditioning for a lot of things. And when I was auditioning, I wasn't right for him. I wasn't good for them. I wasn't necessarily taking great care of myself. Um. It was just like and then I found myself and I was like, wow, Okay, now I'm twenty four. I haven't worked basically at all since Boin Meets World ended. What am I gonna do? Like? What what else am I good at? Am I good

at anything else? I didn't go to college. I haven't ever thought of what else I was going to do. And then I took a couple of, like, you know, just crappy jobs that I needed because I needed the money, not because they were projects that I loved or characters that I loved. And then I said, Okay, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm to type a to allow my future to be in the hand ends of a bunch of people who only want me when when the iron is hot. And so I'm going to go

to school. And so I decided then to go try and enroll in college. And um I went to I got my degree from cal State Fullerton in psychology. I decided I was going to be a marriage and family therapist. And I then applied for my master's degree at Chapman University. And and so I started school at seven. I graduated at thirty one, and as I had just gotten my acceptance from Chapman University for marriage and Family therapy, Michael Jacobs called me and said, we're doing Girl Meets World

and I want you to come back for it. And I was like, we're doing what what are you talking about? And he explained to me what his idea was for Girl Meets World, and that to Panga was going to be a mom. And and I, at this point now had spent four years being a really great student. How I was in it for the education because I wanted to be there. It was something I was really passionate about. And I was like, Michael, I just got accepted for my master's degree, like can I can I do night classes?

And unfortunately, night classes in college meant like four pm, and there was no way I was going to be able to be offset and back in Orange County by four pm. And so I had to make the decision about whether or not I was gonna get my masters or if I was going to do Girl Meets World. And I realized I could get my master's at any time, but I couldn't do Girl Meets World any time. And I decided to go back and do Girl Meets World. That's so interesting you make the decision to go back.

I mean you're like Frasier, right, I mean you're playing like in terms of like longevity of playing the same character over time. Um, did you did you like going back and re exploring who to Pega had had become in a later in life? I did. I actually really enjoyed it. For one thing, I had known about myself that I always wanted to be a mother. And I've also known that I've always been a very maternal person,

whether that's that's not necessarily even just toward children. I just have what people would describe as being a maternal energy about them. I care about the people around me. I tend to take care of the people around me, and um I the idea that I was going to get to Tapanga had been so so stink and smart and wanted to be a lawyer, and and also she

was able to maintain a marriage and have children. I was really excited to see how Topanga was going to pull all that off and how she was going to navigate it, and how motherhood had maybe changed her in ways and had she softened in certain areas. Uh and

so yeah, it was really exciting to me. But I think ultimately even more exciting than that was the feeling I had of being able to go back, to go back to a set and to see a new generation of twelve year olds do the exact same thing I had done, except this time they were going to have of me. They were going to have me there to be like, I've been there with you. If you need anything, I'm here for you. I know how hard this is. If you want somebody to talk to, I'm here for you.

I was so excited about developing those relationships with our young cast, and it felt very like a gift to my younger self that I would have, you know, This is nothing against the adults we had on our show. They had a totally they had their own experiences going on. But I would have loved someone to say to say, I've been in your shoes. If you need if you need anything, come to me. And so I was really excited about that and developing those relationships with the kids.

And I feel like I, you know, hopefully they would say I did a good job of that. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think in the history of television this, it hasn't happened very often. Nothing is occurring to me right now. I don't want to say never. But the idea of of being a young actress, a child star if you will, and playing this role and then having the opportunity so many years later to come

back and revisit it from the adult side. And also, yeah, like you said, being that didn't even occur to me, being there as a mentor to these young actors and actresses that that you had that experience. People you don't understand. We touched on it very briefly, and I wanted to to highlight it. These young actors, their days are so difficult because you know what Danielle was talking about before. I mean, if you're not on set rehearsing or shooting something,

you've got to be in school. So like you're always somewhere. And even though there are thankfully, you know, Screen Actors Guild requirements for how many hours they can work, they still are doing school and having homework and all of the rest of it. It's really difficult. And then there's all the other stuff that goes along with it that like when you're not in school and you're not rehearsing,

you have a wardrobe fitting. When you're not in a wardrobe fitting and it's tape day, you've got hair and makeup. And then when it's not that, you've also got pressed. And so as a kid, every second of your day is occupied with something. And like you said, there are the Screen Actors Guild you know rules, which are nine and a half or ten and a half hours a day, depending on how old the child is. There's a moment where, you know, there's year where it jumps up to ten

and a half hours a day. But that's not including your drive to work or your drive home from work. That's not including homework you may have or getting your script and needing to read your script for the next day. Um, look over your lines, memorize whatever you have coming up,

like it's a lot. And then when we did Girl Meets World, there obviously was social media, and there is now immediate feedback, and you're reading things about what people think about you or what people think about your show. And you're doing a legacy show where people are comparing your show to the old show and here's why it's not as good as the old show, and here's why this person is not as great it is that person and they're reading it on their little devices. And and I,

thankfully was what tried very hard. And there were other people who did it too. Of course they had set teachers and they had people their parents, But I was very much trying to remind them of like staying present, remembering what's important, understanding that just because someone says something on the Internet, it doesn't make it true, and um, you know, just trying to navigate all of that. I was really glad to be a voice that had kind

of experienced it minus the social media. Yeah, that's insane. Can I truly can't imagine that to be twelve thirteen, fourteen, Get your first phone, being on social media and hearing what people might say horrible. Yeah, um, you start directing? Uh, in Girl Meets World, you like directing? I love it. I mean, talk about such a gift. So I started. I directed my first episode in season two. I did

one that season and I of did it. I was like, Okay, that was definitely you know, it's my first time ever doing that. There were some hiccups and it was rocky, but I loved it again, mostly because of the relationships I was able to build working with the kids, And so then I got to direct three more in season three and uh. We ended the show in two thousand seventeen, two thousand sixteen, two thousand seventeen, and I then spent two full years going into meetings, shadowing people, begging someone

to take me seriously as a director. Everyone thought it was most likely a vanity title you got to direct on your own show. It was a home game. Let's call it a home game. No one's gonna let you fail at a home game, and I desperately tried to prove myself. I had been on a you know, sitcom set since I was twelve years old or eleven years old, and I was still shadowing, and anybody would take a

meeting with me, I would take a meeting. And then after two years, I went in for a meeting and um with Mark Reisman and he was acting a Disney Channel show called I Mean he was the executive producer of a Disney Channel show called Sydney to the Max. And I had a wonderful meeting with him, but he was very nervous and he said the same thing to me every other executive said. He said, Danielle, listen, I

believe you. I believe that you can do it. But this show was my baby, and I I just want you know, if it were up to me, I would just hand it off to a very experienced director and he or she would direct every episode. And and you know, it just makes me very nervous. I'll give you a chance to direct, but probably not in the first thirteen or maybe not even in the first season. And I said, Okay, if there's anything I can do to allay your fears,

let me know. And we talked for two hours, and then when I left, he did his due diligence and he called Michael Jacobs and he called Frank Pace, who was our upm and he said, tell me about Danielle as a director, and both of them, thankfully, UH gave him their word that I was legit and that I knew what I was doing and that he could trust me. And I got a call a couple of days later from Disney Channel saying Mark really liked you. He load

up on you. He's going to trust you, and he's going to give you three episodes in his first thirteen and I was I was shocked, and Uh. I ended up directing like eleven or twelve episodes of Sitting to the Max over the three seasons they were on. And now I've done almost thirty episodes of multi camera sitcoms. That's thank you, and I love you, and you love it, I do. I love it the same way I knew going back to Girl Meets World was going to make me feel like I was giving back to a younger

version of myself. That is exactly what directing children's TV feels like to me. I remember so distinctly the directors that we had on Boy Meets World when I was a kid, and that you know, David Trayner gave me my my first acting lesson. David Traynor taught me how to open up for camera. All of that was an education from those directors. And some people aren't as lucky to work with such amazing, kind, warm directors. I was lucky, but I knew I wanted to be that same person

for the next generation of kids. And so now I get to show them Disney one oh one or Acting one oh one or Camera one oh one, and um, you know, it just me It means the world to me. Do you see your younger self in specifically any of the young actresses that you're working with? Oh? Man, I mean, there are parts of me in all of them, but they're all, you know, unique and different. I think, first of all, every all of the young actresses I worked with are all so much better actors than I was.

So in that sense, no, because they're all luckily, they're all much better instinctually than than I was. At the beginning I needed a lot of work. They do not. But I definitely like Ava Kulker, who I worked with on Girl Meets World and then I also got to direct in Sydney to the Max. Ava Kolker is a really great comedic actress. She's very she just gets it, you know. She you can. You can tell her what something means and she'll change the reading of it, or

you'll say that was really funny. But just do something different. You don't have to tell her what you want done differently. She'll just come up with something different. Um. And and she she loves being in front of an audience. I look at her and I think, yeah, I was a little bit of a ham like that too, you know. Um. And then I you know Ruth Riggie who was on

Sydney the Max, also like I see in her. She she lives up north, she lives in Santa Cruz and being with her family and going back to her regular life was really important to her. And I go that was That's how I was too. So I see bits of myself in all of them, and it feels good. It feels nice to like form those relationships. And I make sure to let all of them know that, like after the show ends and after I'm done being your director here, my door is still always open and and

there because there will be other hiccups. I also made the jump then from being a kid to being an adult, and I know, I know what that entails. And there will be times where you're going to want to talk to somebody and just know you can always reach out. That's awesome. Yeah, it's it's crazy to me. I mean, you know, you started doing essentially a regular role on television at age twelve. You know, for me it was I was thirty two, you know, I did theater for

so long. It's uh, you know, it's just it's fascinating to me to hear that inside, the inside story of that and sort of knowing from the outside intellectually when you know, I've worked with kids over the years, how difficult that is, you know, hearing from you your experience going through it is just it's really interesting to me. So I appreciate you coming and talking about that. You have a a new podcast that you have launched, rewatch Pod meets World the third. So we've got Boy, We've

got Girl, and now we have pod. Are you having a good time doing that? We're having a great time doing it. None of us, we all so it's myself, Wright, Strong and Wilfred l And none of us have watched the show recently, and Writer has actually rarely seen ever an episode. He's only seen a handful of episodes ever in his life. Will saw them all when they aired in the nineties, and then he's seen a handful of

them again recently. I also watched them, maybe most them when they were on in the nineties, but then I've never seen them again. So we're watching it really for the first time, and we're talking about how the show one feels differently to us than we remembered it feeling, and part of that is exactly what you're talking about.

The way we perceived the show as twelve year olds is obviously totally different than the way we perceived the show now as adults, and we're finding that it's amazing how much more we're the scenes were picking up on and the moments were loving are all of the adult actors, and we're like, I didn't even remember this scene existed.

We were so focused on whether or not we were getting laughs in the classroom, we weren't actually aware of how incredible William Russ was as Alan Matthews, you know, delivering this father son monologue about life like we didn't even pay We probably didn't even read that part of the script. But now as adults and as parents, we're seeing it through those eyes, and so it has been really fun. That's awesome. William Daniels years old and just came on your podcast. I just I love that, isn't

it great? Um? Danielle, thank you so much for coming on and talking to me about this good luck. With the directing. I'm so happy for you that you have have found that and that you're loving that, and with the podcast. Thank you for for going back and sharing your your unique perspective. I appreciate it so much. Thank you, Brian.

This was really just a true pleasure. And I hope we get to present another award at the Hero Dog Awards or or somewhere, but I I will be following along on all of your adventures and I am such a fan of yours. So thank you so much. You're the best. Danielle, thank you so much. And someday, I don't know, I'll come. I'll come be Walter, for your for your child. Everyone go check out pod meets World now. I promise you you will not regret it. To all

of you out there. We're gonna be back this Thursday with another special off the Beat sports guest, and then of course we'll be back next week. I know I say this every week, but we have a very we got a good one. We got a good one next week, so stay tuned for that. We'll see you on Thursday and again next Tuesday. Until then, well be well. Everybody Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are

Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Cat. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Olandski