When I was young, I think I was just dumb enough that I think I could beat the guys that were better than me. And now that I'm old, I think I'm just dumb enough that I can still beat those kids that are better than me. So there's a little bit of dumb in there that goes on. But what separates but is like the juices that come alive in your body when you're playing a competitive sport like that at the elite level, is you can't reproduce at a club championship.
You can't reproduce on Friday golf. You can't. But that's what makes it.
Some guys excel in that environment and some guys excel at the other side. So like I say, I'm very average golfer when it comes to a Friday golf match with our friends out here, but I under the gun, I just something rises up that gets my juices going. And I would say I feed off that adrenaline, those juices that go in which makes me better, and when I'm just playing for fun, I don't have them.
Hi.
I'm Charlie hoffin PGA two are professional better known as the Seagull.
Yeah, Hi everybody, and welcome back.
To another episode. Thank you for joining me for Off the Beat. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner, and now today I got to record ir L That's right, which is young people talk for in person, face to face. It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to do that. That was a lot of fun, and I did it with today's guest because well he's also my neighbor and a good friend. I am talking about the seagull Charlie Hoffman, PGA Tour golfer and a PGA
Tour board member. With what has been going on with golf over the last couple of years. Well, he's an insider, to say the lead. He's also a fierce champion of the sport, both in the sense of being a winner and an advocate to making it better and to helping golf reach a wider audience. So I'm excited for you to hear the inside scoop on the PGA, his recent major accomplishment on the Green and yes, our very own Friday Golf group, Landon Donovan is a member of that
group as well. So look out here he comes dropping bombs the Seagull Charlie Hoffman, bubble and squeak.
I love it, Bubble and Squeakna bubble and squeaker, cooking at every mole. Lift over from the ninety four.
Charlie. How's it going? How's it going? It's good to see you. We're here at.
Our We're coming to you live from Rancho Santa Fe golf Course.
How long have you been here? How long have you played here? I've long backtrack?
Story is I grew up getting lessons from the longtime pro Chuck Courtney here, so a long long time. I grew up in Poway, which is only fifteen twenty minutes from here, but been an actual member ten years. We bought the house just prior to my kids going to school here, and they're in seventh and fifth grade, so I bet you close to ten years I remember.
Right, But you've been playing here since you were a kid.
I grew up like literally my first instructor, Chuck Courney, was the pro here and this is where I drove from Poway and my parents used to dropped me off and I got lessons.
Was this so?
Was would you consider this like your home course? When you were out like you weren't allowed to play it? Sort of like couldn't you know.
I just came in and took a lesson and they kicked me out. I'm a Poway kid. They went and let the Pwai kid in ranch to Santa Fe. Well, where where did you play?
Like?
Where where was your home course? I grew up a public, public golf course.
We're at Ranch Bernardo in Oaks North Or when I got in high school, my parents joined stone Ridge. Uh so, first club I was a member. It wasn't until high school. So I grew up playing all different golf courses in powaway from golf courses aren't even there. Came on ranches gone the old I mean half of them, art aren't even there any longer, their housing developments.
But uh so I was. I was a public course kid right. Well, so spoiler alert. You grew up in the San Diego area. For those of you who don't know powways in the San Diego area, I mean you you've traveled everywhere around the globe.
Why why do you call San Diego home.
It's the best. It's the best spot in the world. I've seen it all, literally, the best spot. Now, it was great before I started paying taxes. It's not quite great now dumb, so much money in the Texas, But you know what I lived. I went to college in UNLV, which some sort of probably more of a spoiler. I won national championship in ninety eight. Stayed out there. I
tell the stories. I couldn't afford anything else. I was lucky enough my grandparents left me some money to go to college, didn't need it, got a scholarship, used out as down payment of first house right out of college, and then sort of just made that my home base. Playing professional golf was easy to travel from, great practicabilities, a great place as a single young male, also to hang out. And then I started having a family and decided it's probably a little bit better to raise.
A family in San Diego and Diego. That's how we got here.
When people ask me as I travel around why San Diego, I said, well, it's only bad if you don't like perfect.
I mean, the true story is, like my wife, I'll be on the road for three weeks and I come home.
It was like, oh, right, let's go on a vacation. I'm like, this is a vacation. No, I know, I just want to be home right.
Growing up already said you played golf. You took lessons here? Were there other sports?
Yeah?
Grew up playing competitive baseball, All Star baseball. Okay, through until high school. Golf and baseball were the same time. Grew up playing competitive soccer, traveling soccer in Powaway, and then I played soccer through my senior year of high school. So I played two sports in high school. And then uh, then, obviously, once I got recruited to play golf at U and LV obviously focused down to one. Right, did your parents play golf? The story behind that is my dad didn't
play golf. It was a friend's grandpa about three doors down, Bill Lundry. His grandpa's name was Henry Lundy, invited us to go play golf for me and him to go play golf with him. We loved it one because we both were friends and we could interact. And then my dad started using the story of if I wanted to spend any time with my son, I had to go. I had to pick up golf. So he went and played golf every once in a while with us on
the weekend. And then now he's hooked and probably plays more golf than I do.
Oh really, yeah, he loves it.
He's a member of our branch Maato Country Club and plays all the time.
So one of the things I like to ask people is when you're a kid, like you just said, you play soccer, you play competitive baseball, you golf, Like, at what point for you is there a shift? Like at what point is it like, oh, this is something that I could do, or was it just I would need to get a scholarship to college so I'm going to do that, or was there a moment for you?
Well, I'd say that.
I mean, I've played competitive golf obviously through San die agrian A Golf as a young kid, and then at sixteen, I was lucky enough at the back in the day at the Buick Invitational, they had an amateur qualifier okay, and two guys initially, I mean, which is unheard of now if you think about it.
They had the.
Local San Diego Golf had or the PGA or whatever you want to call it, had a qualifier for two amateurs, not pros weren't even allowed.
So two amateurs played the event.
And when I was sixteen, I qualified, didn't make the cut, but I'm like, holy crap, I'm I'm in the mix. I like this warming up next to Jacobson Stadler. Guys, I washed on TV, just like the kids are doing now. I'm like, got those juices going. I'm like, I like this right. Then go to college and I'm eighteen, freshman year of college, actually not really playing a ton for my college team at U and l V.
At the time, we were one of the best in the country.
And I go and make the cut at to b a invitational now the Farmer's Insurance Open in San Diego. So I'm eighteen years old, not even playing on my college team. That's how good our college team was. And my coach is Caddy in and I make the cut. I'm like, well, I'm obviously one of the best players in the country. The coach the next week goes, You're not even to travel for us. I'm like, what is going on? So our team was great. We had a bunch of all Americans, bunch Adam Scott. Adam Scott was
a freshman when I was a senior. But when I was a freshman, Chris Riley obviously a Ryder cuper, Chad Campbell ride our copper.
We had.
We had some great, great players that obviously would outclass me at that time. And but that was it was humbling and like sort of I knew I had it at the same time when I when I was around eighteen, thinking I could compete against the best in the world.
Well before then, though, you you win two state championships. Now this is California, Southern California, Southern California. California Southern California. What they split it.
They did split the Northern California and Southern California. Obviously it'd be kind of hard to put them both together. But who won in Northern California when you want in Southern If I had to guess, it would be a guy like Joel Krible Joe Carbro sort of dominated. He played at Stanford with Tiger, just under Tiger, just after Tiger, and he was the sort of the guy in my time that wasn't Tiger Woods that won a lot of a lot of events.
Did you play I just didn't even occur to me. Did you play stuff in California with Tiger when he went like when you would have been a little older.
It's funny, he always played up so when I played junior golf stuff, he was playing amateur like US amateur stuff. Amate golf, and when I was playing amateur stuff, he was en amateur playing professional golf.
So our past didn't cross a.
Ton, even though we're I think he's one year older than me really growing up. Besides, he dominated anything and everything he played in.
Right, you go to UNLV, you win a national championship in nineteen ninety eight on that team. By the time you won the national championship, how much were you playing that?
Yeah?
I was playing full time there, but I would be the first person to tell you I was probably the.
Number four guy on the team.
Yeah, really, Yeah, it might have been that the coach so I like to have fun in college. It might have been that I didn't always put all the effort and work in that.
I maybe could have. But our teams were stacked.
We were never out of like the top three in the country when I was the four years ours there is I mean it was, I mean somewhat of a dynasty. We should have won a couple national championships. We only won one. But I was never the best player, and any time I wasn't the best player in junior golf, I was never the best player in amateur golf and professional golf. I just sort of succeeded. I sort of put my granted, but I still wouldn't say I was
the best player ever to play the PGA Tour. But I mean, I've sort of always been a role player and always knew I could beet and play against guys.
So one thing that's interesting to me, and now having played with you and others who are professional, what would you say is the intangible or like there's a lot of great players, right, I mean, there's a lot of great players at this club that are like plus five, plus six, you know, but couldn't ever sort of make it beyond being just a recreational golfer.
Like what do you think that it is? Is it a mindset? Is it a what is it that takes you just to that extra level.
I've said this before. When I was young, I think I was just dumb enough that I think I could beat the guys that were better than me. And now that I'm old, I think I'm just dumb enough that I can still beat those kids that are better than me. So there's a little bit of dumb in there that goes on. But what separates is like the juices that come alive in your body when you're playing a competitive
sport like that at the elite level. Is you can't reproduce at a club championship, you can't produce on Friday golf.
You can, but that's what makes it.
Some guys excel in that environment and some guys excel at the other side. So like I say, I'm very average golfer when it comes to a Friday golf match with our friends out here. But if under the gun, I just something rises up that gets my juices going. And I would say I feed off that adrenaline, those juices that go in which makes me better.
And when I'm just playing for fun, I don't have them. Right.
Well, I said a long time ago, I have to play for something.
I think there has to be something, as you know, for me, there has to be something.
On the line, or well there's no steaks, Yeah, it doesn't matter, and you're feeling in the ultimate steaks.
Yeah, yes, so I still look.
I mean, obviously more you gamble for on the golf course somewhere it gets my attention. But I learned from a young age that gambling was part of golf and that's just sort of how you got better. And you saw there's some always some sort of breaking point. You always found that you tried to find that in a person and see what broke them, if it was money or how you talked, or how fast you played or how slow you played. You always tried to find an
edge on somebody. And I think that's I've always looked for that edge to be beat somebody, and that's why I've always been fairly successful doing it.
Well.
I was going to talk about this later, but it seems like a perfect transition. You have a nickname, yes, the seagull.
Yes, what does that refer to? The seagull?
So it transpired back in Las Vegas, and I'm going to probably give Maleinger, John Mallinger the credit on this. And Bill Lundy and I were chipping and I think we might have been calling Mallinger of the Seagull to be honest with you, and then obviously it might might have turned on me, and then somehow Colt knows.
Got ahold of it.
But back to the actual, what does this seagull mean? It is like I fly around and shit on everybody. I talked shit about it, I mean, but I do it to your face. I don't know, I don't I don't do it behind your back. Right, That's where sort of Colt obviously couldn't play because he wasn't very good and he got an announcing gig and uh and then he was People start to listen to what he said, and he sort of I would say, I would credit
him to making that mainstream the Seagull. Yeah, so it's I wouldn't say it's his fault or his greatness, but I think it originally came from Mallinger.
Are you are you proud of that? I embraced it. Okay, I don't. I don't. I never denied it, but I embrace it. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't think it's a bad thing. Right.
Does it give you a competitive advantage? Is that what you're doing is you are you looking to try to get in someone's.
Head or like on a Tuesday, you're always I mean that's when you talk trash. Everybody's on a Tuesday when you're gambling or have a match, and that's sort of when you're sort of, what's this guy have?
What's this guy not have? And he sort of, you know, you know, the greats.
Are harder to get into their head and the not grades are a little bit easier.
So I try to.
Find something I might store it in the back of my brain and then bring it out on it at a time, and so that I think that's the seagle side of it.
I'm strategic on that side.
I wouldn't say in competition, I'm not going to try to use on you, but in a gambling I definitely will.
Right you turned pro just a couple of years out of college. Start on the by at the time, the buy dot Com tour. This is the corn Ferry Tour. Now correct, right.
You?
You only made four of nineteen, missed my first sixteen in a row.
If you want to be actively sixteen sixteen in a row, this is actually probably not many people know this story. So Zach Johnson and myself somehow became friends.
I have no idea at all or why. But he's a nice guy.
A nice guy, but he missed the first They want to say twelve cuts in a row, missed the first sixteen. We roomed half the time together, and we're like, what the heck is going on? There's no chance for going to be any I mean, think of those two names. Obviously, Zach's definitely in Hall of famer. I've been out there for nearly twenty years now. It's like two guys that couldn't break an egg. So any any kid listening to this, and I'm not telling be professional golfer or anything, but
you can make it after some struggles. But we were, honestly, we're driving the country. We both had a car, drove the country. We had a lot of weekends off, we practiced a ton together, and we just tried to become better. And at that age, as I say, I learned way more in those first sixteen events of the year I played golf, and I've learned since, Learned how to travel, learned how to deal with the emotion of missing Cutch, learned, just learned so much about myself in a very short
period of time. Because I'd always been very successful, most most kids playingrofessional golf had. But I mean, I've excelled in junior golf, I excelled in college golf, and then all of a sudden, you and I get right out of college on I would say, a major tour, the buy dot Com Tour, the corn Ferry Tour, which I think only two kids got. Throw all the back when Q school is coming back but back when Q school was the only way to get on tour. Only two guys from college that he even made it to the
Buy dot Com tour. So it's a very small group. But you're thrown in the middle of it. There's no one else helping helping you out. It's not like this day and age when everybody has an agent knew doing hotels for you.
I mean I had an agent, but that's it was just a different time.
The Internet didn't really exist, and I'm picking up flyers on the way from Denny's on what the cheapest hotel is to stay at. But it was a long road that first year on the corn Ferry tour. But two of us that weren't very successful ended up being successful because I think we learned from our mistakes and what we did wrong and how we could do things better.
First of all, that's a great lesson, right, Like take that adversity. It reminds me of when the La Rams moved from.
This is like such a weird reference, but I don't know.
This is what popped into my head when the La Rams moved from Saint Louis to la and there was this show All or Nothing on Amazon Prime that highlighted their season, and they're moving and spoiler alert, they were terrible.
Jeff Fisher gets fired in the middle of the year and anyway, I got brought in to help sell this all or nothing documentary because the rams were like, yeah, we don't want anything to do with that, and the story became how difficult that transition was for everyone, right, because you're moving not just you know, shoulder pads and helmet and all of your equipment, but your personnel. Everyone's trying to find a place to.
Live, families and families.
Where do you live in relation to where you're practicing and it was a temporary practice facility. Anyway, Like how much they struggle to it makes a ton of sense. Right, You're in high school and your parents are taking care of you, I mean to whatever degree they are.
And then you're going to college and somebody.
Is taking to university, taking care of everything, paying for travel and telling you this is where you're staying, which good, bad, or indifferent. Someone's telling you what to do and you don't have to worry about that. But yeah, being out on your own for the first time and traveling around the country has got to be really difficult.
With no money, with no money, literally no money. I'm sure my parents helped me out, but I had nothing. I mean, and speaking of having nothing, then I wasn't making any money because the only way to make money is to make the cut. There were some Monday pro ams. I would say that you could, I would would fit the hotel bills and stuff like that, but then you had a caddy. I mean, I was losing losing my butt that first year. But obviously I learned a lot
through those mistakes. But it was very, very hard, and I think the agents have gotten a lot better have held to get guys navigate through that.
But back then it really wasn't wasn't there? Why did you keep going? You know what?
There was a period of time where I probably didn't want to keep going. But that year that I missed sixteen arrow games with some momentum at the inn of the year and almost got my tour card through tour school is actually I was right on the cuss and I made a bou gear two coming in and end up not getting my full PGA tour card. And then I went back to the buy dot Com tour Cornferry Tour
and uh I had a decent year. But back then only I want to say, like fifty five guys or sixty guys kept their card on that tour, and I want to say it was in mid seventies or something like that.
I had to go back to the first stage tour school.
And then I missed that. I'm like, holy, what the heck is going on? I went from fairly stiphoned the next thing, you have nothing to go back on. Played so many tours in Europe a little bit, but there was a small point in time when I was playing mini tours and like, if I don't get if I don't get through this year, I don't want to be that journey pro guy that's thirty something years old and playing mini tours and not making any money. So I
gave myself one more year to do that. And this period of time felt like longer than my eighteen or nineteen years on tour.
It was a weird part.
I mean, not where you want to be struggling in a but looking back, it didn't really take that long for me to get on tour.
But those those years were long years and hard years.
And I was able to get my full by icon card back or corn Ferry Tour card back by doing Monday qualifiers and ended up winning a year. Didn't get my tour card that year, and the next year I played spit the full year on that Corn Ferry Tour and was able to get my card through the top. I think it was twenty guys, and I haven't looked back since, and I don't I think I think it was so hard down there, you don't want to go
back there. It's like you got so much scar, You're like, let me stay up here as long as I can. I still firmly believe that anybody that goes back up to that tour after a couple of years on tour, they're like, why am I down? Is very depressing if you've tasted the PGA Tour and think you belong up there. Right, two thousand and four, you win the Permian Permian Basin Open, Permian Basin Open. That's your first Professon Midland Texas, Midland Texas.
What was that like?
It was such a world win year because I was sort of the year I'm like, if I don't do it, and then I was able to win and it gave me obviously some financial ability to play the next few years and do that.
It's it was awesome.
Obviously without that win, I I may not been here, may not been playing professional golf, So that was important. Obviously, would love to have got my card that year, but it took me a whole another year to get my card and I was able to do it. But that win is as special as pretty much any of them. Yeah, actually probably a close second to the Bob Hope that
I won my first PGA Tour win No. Seven, but that's probably because you get on tour and I played a whole year on tour and that was my first event in seven and a good friend that I met through through the ranks of playing celebrity golf tournaments, and George Lopez was hosting it that year, which he didn't host it many years, but it was it was actually nice to have someone around that we played a practice round and just knew each other and my first year and I was able to win the event and he
was watching it.
It was pretty cool.
And that sort of gave me the thought of belonging on the PGA Tour because you really didn't know if he belonged and I'd only been out there a year and you're a young kid, and it's like it gave me, I would say, a spot in the fraternity of the PGA Tour.
And but was what was really.
Weird that I haven't talked much about, is like, all of a sudden, a young kid and I get thrown in like the Ryder Cup discussion the president.
I'm like, hold on a second.
I just went from trying to keep my job X amount of months ago, now I'm throwing it.
I wasn't ready for that either, and.
Sort of struggle and put some more pressure on myself that I really hadn't thought about.
But that that was a that was.
A great time, but sort of all of a sudden put added pressure on myself that really wasn't needed.
Right through the BMW Championship. You and I have talked about that, which is a current event on the corn Ferry Tour. I've had the opportunity to go and play with a bunch of those guys, Max.
Homer, Harry Higgs.
I mean the ability of those guys again, it's like it's like you're playing on the PGA Tour.
I mean, the ability is insane.
They may have more ability to honestly like raw talent. Those guys have raw talent, they just don't don't know how to harness it for them and how to I would say, actually play golf. But like you said in the Ranger, and watch those guys hit golf balls on the corn Ferry Tour nowadays, they probably hit it further and make a different sound than a lot of the guys on the PGA Tour. But they just haven't sort of figured out how to play PGA Tour golf and navigate themselves around the golf course.
But there's tremendous talent down on that tour. I mean it's been.
Debatable for the last few years versus the second best tour in the world. And obviously your produces amazing talent on the DPAT their top their top end talent is top end. But if you go to the middle of the talent the corn Ferry Tour, middle of the talent could be a PJ Tour star the next year.
Yeah, why do you think that they're well, I mean, like you said, some of them are just young and they just have to take the time.
Not the learning curve that I just talked about.
I mean, it's like they they I mean, it's easier I think now with Internet and agents and all that stuff to be able to travel around and understand where to stay and get caddies.
But there's a learning curve for all of us.
I mean it's it's I think that's the biggest thing you sort of with the Corn Ferry Tour does great job of its teaching guys how to travel, teaching how to score, teaching how to play golf.
And once you get.
On the PJ Tour, you're playing You're not playing against the best guys your age, You're playing the best guys that were the best guys for the last.
Couple of generations.
So that I mean it's it's some serious talent you're and it's you're thrown right in the mixer.
What has been your philosophy over your career obviously long career in terms of caddy Like.
What are you?
What are you looking for? What kind of person do you feel helps you the most being out there?
Yeah? Week to week, I've really only had three caddies.
My first caddy, Miguel Rivera, was was a guy that was trying to play professional golf. Went to some Monday qualifiers with me on that Corn for a tour of the year I was like the last year and he wouldn't qualify.
I would qualify, and then he would caddy for me.
He'd make some money to cover somebody spend to be able to go the next week.
So that next thing, you know, I get my tour card.
He doesn't play golf in morning, he comes and caddies for me on the PGA Tour.
That lasted nearly ten years. What did he give you?
What?
He I always liked the friend on the bag and the guy that knew golf.
So friendship. We guy to be able to go to dinner with God, to be able to hang out with and knew the game of golf, so that was key. So and then the next guy transitions into Brett Waldman, which was one of the better, better caddies on tour.
Lost success. He was a great player, just done.
He played caddied on tour, caddy for Camilla for a bunch of years, I mean go on and on. But his best year with Camila when he was playing good in the FedEx Cup. And then he decided he wanted to go try to play professional golf, so he went went to Cuscoll He got his corn Ferry Tour card back and he played his corn Ferry Tour and he was he was good, but then he lost his card and now he doesn't have a job again.
Then he starts catting again. That's how he sorted.
He was caddying for David Thomas actually before he started catting for me, and Uh, I just had part of ways and my miguel and I called him up and uh he was able at caddy and he first week he caddy for me, I won. So I'm like, all right, that's that's a good start. And uh he caddied for me about four years. But back he fit the mold. He was a friend that I'd know him through through
the years of playing the PGA Tour. Uh Andy nu golf and then now my current caddy is Andy Barnes, uh older brother of Ricky Barnes, and he played at UO of A. He used to kick my button amateur golf. He was very very good golfer. But uh, I would say injuries back injuries sort of sidelined his uh career of playing golf.
And he caddied for me a little bit early on in my career.
Uh, but then he got the opportunity to go be an assistant coach at Arizona, and I'm like, He's like, what should I do?
And I'm like, you can always come back in Caddy. But the opportunity to.
Be a coach and in the city you grew up or not grew up that you live in now is
you can't pass that opportunity yet, right. He went, did that for a few years, liked it, but decided when he wanted to get the head coaching job there and saw that it wasn't going to get the head coaching job there, he decided to come back and Caddy and we sort of joined up forces of four or five years ago, and next thing you know, it's nearly I've just finished my pretty much my eighteenth year on tour, going my nineteenth year, and I've only been through three guys.
So the common denomeer is you.
Got you had to play golf, and you had to be I had to be able to get along with you because you're right, you're with these people more than you are your wife, right, and literally traveling on planes, renting cars together.
Some in early on career split in hotel rooms.
Now obviously fortunate enough now have to split hotel rooms, but a lot of times stay in the same spot. So you spend a lot of time with these guys, you better be able to get along with them.
Right.
How much are they giving you advice about shot or club selection? Is so like pedestrian, But I mean, like, are you going to hit a six iron this way or a seven iron that way?
Are they talking? Is more keep you in check? Okay? So I'll use an example.
Say three holes earlier are the same direction, hole and wind, and you hit a six iron we'll say one hundred and eighty five yards, and then you got the same shots like one ninety five and the only and you get the carry of the bunkers one ninety's like, dude, you just hit this club one only one eighty five the whole prior, I don't think you can make it over that bunker, and say I would have pulled six irons, like we've got X amount behind the green. I think
five irons better play here. It sort of keeps you in check, making sure you make the right decision. Ideally, you're thinking clearly, and he doesn't have to do a lot. But that's not always the case. You always think he might be able to and I think he's just there to state the obvious, making sure you don't make a mistake. Obviously, we're in control of a club, we pulling what shot
we hit. But they're they're the only people watching every shot, you and your caddy, So they're there to keep you in check and make sure your motions are in check and and when you're acting like a prick, and to keep you in check. And that's what that's the hard part of the especially being a friend, is being able to say something in us acknowledge it when we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing right.
Your most recent title, the Texas Open, you got to a career high world ranking of twentieth in the world.
Was that a big deal for you? Top twenty?
You know what, I never thought about world ranking a ton, probably because I wasn't that high up in my career. I would say I love competing that that event. Obviously, again I was hot and I played well, but playing in majors always got my juices going.
Always.
That's sort of what every everybody's career is based off of. I wasn't I didn't play a ton in my career. I played a decent amount and I competed a decent amount in them, but something about the majors getting I got those juices going a little.
Bit more than the PGA Tour event.
But I always formed a schedule around the golf course I wanted to play, not always based on the best field field qualities. It was just like sort of like what flowed, which is different times. If you look back now, it's like maybe I wouldn't have done that. But I never really looked at per sizes. I never really looked at who was playing to what events I want to play. I sort of navigated around cities I wanted to go to, or now birthdays and events that I have during the summer.
That so it's going to be a different time with the.
New schedule and the PGA Tour, what guys playing, what they don't play, but my home my whole career, I was able to pick and plan strategically and what course I wanted to play. And that might have inhibited my world ranking because there's definitely an art to be able to climb up that world ranking board, and some guys have played it perfectly and I just was never into that game of doing that.
Well.
Being on the tour eighteen years, you do you did Okay, you managed it.
Okay.
As you mentioned before, there is there is a group we call it Friday Golf here in Rancho Santa Fe. A big deal this year at the Wendham Championship in Greensboro, North Carolina.
You make an albatross.
This My phone went off more within a thirty minute period then maybe any time in my life. Tell me about that and the feeling of that, and the messages that you must have received from not just us but everybody else.
Yeah, it was.
It was almost like whenning a golf tournament on the message side, but walk you through the shot was it was.
It's an interesting part five.
It's short, little part five, but there's a crosspunker and then hazard going down the left hand side, and it was probably three wood off the tee would be in the strategic move and be able to hit we'll say a long iron or a wood to the center of the green and put over. And I was in the position. It was the last tournament sort of the year of the FedEx Cup. I really didn't have a ton of
loser gain from it. To my caddy and I are like, well, let's try to feed a driver up there and sort of into this neck and then you have a better angle into the pen and try to make an egle of some sort. I was able to do that, and then I hit the beautiful cut six ron, probably a little further right than I intended, but it landed just perfectly soft and night I saw the gallery hand that you couldn't see the ball on the hole, but the
gallery hands went up. They're like uh, and then like sheering, and then all of a sudden they just went crazy. And I mean it for I would say the Windom Championship amazing champian, but it's not.
It's not a major. There's not usually a ton of but that this hole.
Had a ton of people, a lot of corporate box around and it was it was loud right around that hole, and uh it was.
It was obviously amazing.
Feelings is the first first one I've made on the PGA tour that I recollect.
My stat say it's your first, yeah.
First one. But I got a funny story. We'll go back to reverse. I don't know why this even came to my head, but my wife at the time girlfriend came out to boise Wise playing probably by dot Com tour back in the day, and she.
Never watched me play golf.
Okay, I go, I'm starting on the back nine and make an albatross on the fourteenth hole, and then like four holes later on the par five, I shank it in the water. I tell I tell my wife or not not my wife girlfriend. I'm like, you won't believe this, but you'll probably never see those two shots ever again from me. And then it was a span of forty
five minutes. That was the last time I think I had an albatross and competitive golf was at it at a pot of com But I mean, obviously my phone went crazy, just like just like yours, because I was on the half those group texts. But it's fun to have a support system here that are rooting for me, a bunch of people that become new friends here in the town. Obviously you get the old friends and the
golfers that all saw it. But the funny even backstory behind that is that albatross actually knocked Justin Thomas out of the playoffs because I moved up so much and I took points away from home. A lot of people didn't it nor really catch media attention. But if you do the math, if I don't finish twelfth and he finished his twelfth with one less guy he gets enough points to get in.
The FedEx Cup playoffs. But that's that's a little side note. Have you talked to him this? He doesn't talk to me anymore.
So I have to bring this up. We brought up our group. There was a discussion the other day. Are good friend guest on the podcast here Landon Donovan is a ten handicap. He claimed the other night that by the end of next year, so fifteen sixteen months from now, he will be a one point eight.
You know what, I've gotten to little Land in just the same avenues as you have. Yes, he is. He's the most coachable.
Athlete I've ever been around. I say athlete because he is an athlete. Yes, Like sometimes you tell people things and I'm an athlete too, go ahead. They can't do, and they can't implement, And his being able to retain the information, be able to implement the information that you're trying to do is literally second to.
None that anybody.
Now, I'm not an instructor that I've tried to help or try to say things to. And he's open for succession, which may hurt him down the road, but right now, he's a sponge trying to retain any information. I'll tell the story the first time I played, and he just asked me about chipping, and he had couldn't couldn't chip, couldn't get it on the green, And gave him a couple of tips and like literally like three holes later, he was able to do it.
I'm like, this is but he was so raw.
He didn't he didn't know what he was doing was wrong, and doing something else was easy because he didn't know what to do to begin with. So if I had to place a wager on that as competitive.
He is one point eight.
It's crazy to me to even think about that, but I've if he really doesn't I think he I think he could do it.
Think about the guy you're doing this, because now he's no, he's going to listen and he's gonna think that he can do this.
Yeah, but think about it.
He never even touched a club, I mean pretty much never touched a club until last a year.
And he's a ten now. Yeah, but there's but he knows how to chick. You know, he can putt he knows how to chick because of you.
But he's also over like a four foot like some people shake and he doesn't give a ship.
He just knocks in the back like so all right, I say, I know, I I hear you. I think he can do it. I most bet you go.
There's no there's no way they're going to even come close up. I think he can do it. It's a long shot, but I think he can do it.
All right, You're not you're not buying that, very skeptic.
Very to me, there's a there's a huge like to be a ten is huge, yeah, but then there's a huge jump to like a six, and then to me, the biggest jump of all And maybe it's because I've been.
Like at the six.
To go to like a four or three, even though that's really cool, that's a huge other because that's becomes a you're shooting in the seventies.
Every time, Yes, yes, to be a three or four and you.
Cant shoot under part regularly to even be close to it single digit or a two with that he is but yeah, let's let's be honest.
He's got nothing but time, so he could do it.
You heard it here first Full Swing Getting a lot of tension, The golf documentary from Netflix, Huge Success. I read last night and then looked it up again this morning to write it down. Forty two percent of the people who have watched say they're watching more golf now and because we know how the world works and where money is. Thirty six percent of people say they're spending more time looking up on social media sites.
Good for the game. Full swing way better than I anticipated.
But obviously I don't know if it could ever come in at a better time for full swing?
Correct?
Correct, I mean, I'll use I mean Drivers Survive. I've never watched a race car race in my life. I started watching Drivers just five and next thing, you know, I mean literally this morning. I watched the rerun of Singapore F one this morning, I mean working out a five thirty the morning, so it does work. I started watching F one because of it. The numbers don't lie. It's the reason why we did it as a PGA tour. I don't think it was it was it endorsed by the PGA Tour. Yes, it was endorsed.
Yes, okay, yeah, you had to give them access and ability to do that.
No, as far as I know, which is mind blowing to me, no one was paid to do it. It was all volunteer, volunteering your time and have letting somebody. I wouldn't say I was approached, but I don't think I've ever done it. I don't want a camera in front of my face.
I don't.
I think my value can only go down if the camera's in front of my face the whole time.
So, uh, these guys have embraced it. Obviously.
The producer is an amazing job to make portray them in the right light. And uh, it was great to have to live and the tour and everything else go against each other and and just sort of see how it was shaken out and just see personalities of guys that you may not see on TV. I mean, I think Joel Damon would. I mean, the whole the whole series is great, and yeah, if you haven't watched it, I recommend it. I don't think anything was that riveting to someone that's inside it.
But from the.
People that I know that don't watch a ton of golf that wash it all loved.
It well to your point.
Just yesterday actually on Sunday, Sahith Thagala won the event and there was a ton of media exposure around it because he was so engaging and his family story in the documentary was so engaged.
I mean I thought so he.
Like was like emotional watching him in the documentary. And now he becomes someone that maybe people root for.
He's pound for pound, the loudest gallery in all the golf.
He's got his family or families, So I mean, there's so many people following him around, and I bet you even more since the Netflix has come out. But he he's awesome. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. He's a great young player, and obviously he's he's a rising star in our sport and in Netflix got it before before he won, which is even better.
Yeah, for those of you who don't know, Charlie is on the board of the PGA Tour.
That kind of makes you like your own boss. I guess all golfers are their own bosses. But what made you want to do that?
You know what?
I'd always voice my opinion to the guys early on in my career, I'd say, and I guess I didn't kick myself on the button say anything wrong. And I was approached by the staff do you want to run to be? And it starts with like the Player Advisory Council that sort of reports the board.
The player directors did that.
For a few years and then did staff's like, I think we're going to nominate you for election to go on on the board. And I actually lost once or twice prior before getting on the board, a lot of seniority. I'd say, I think Davis beat me out one year and Davis Love beat.
Me out one year.
And then then I got on and I enjoyed it. I enjoyed sort of knowing how the machine ticks and talks and works, and that it and early on it really wasn't not hard of a gig. I mean, we were a pretty well oiled machine and didn't have really any competition then and then well, and then COVID hit and that I was rolling off and then I technically
was asked to run again and I won. So literally during COVID, we're trying to figure out how we start up again, what how do we play golf and entertain during these times?
Why?
Obviously trying to stay very very safe. So I technically have been on the board for seven straight years. A lot of phone calls, a lot more phone calls as of late. And I mean I was this morning, I was up at who knows how what time and on a phone.
Call with a tour.
But it's it's it's been time consuming but also fun to be a part of it, and my voice is valued on the PGA tour and trying to make the product better for everybody. But COVID was intense and no one had to playbook for COVID R. I mean, so we were making stuff up on the fly and how how can we do this? And we and I mean we were really the besides NASCAR. We were the first group of people to be back on TV, back out playing and uh and really with no stoppage to think about that, like,
it's it was pretty crazy. Obviously, I thought it stunk playing during COVID back to those juices. You didn't play in front of anybody, so he never got the juices going. It was it was really really weird, uh during that time, but we were able to put a product out there obviously for the fans to watch, and uh, it was probably the biggest time for all of golf was COVID because people started playing again and then obviously we came
back on TV. Our our views are high, people are playing golf, people are engaging in golf, and it sort of reinvented golf, to be completely honest with you, especially for the younger generation, and like, holy holy crap, I can go out on golf course and spend X amount of hours my friends. My parents won't let me play with my friends at home, but I can go out on golf course and play with the friends. And so
it's COVID was great for golf. And then then we hit this other time that we're going through right now that we're sure we don't know what. I see the end of the light at the end of the tunnel, but it's been a dark eighteen months to say the least, right, I mean.
To your point, what golf gave to so many people during.
That time who were stuck inside, stuck alone, and to be able to go out safely and do something outdoors was so important.
I agree with you, and it's sort of it gave everybody. I think the respect I've always loved about golf is you were able instead of a lunch meeting and whatever, you go play golf with your buddies and everybody. What I love about the game of golf, you know, to interact with people for four and a half hours and play with them and be outside and then and enjoy someone's company without in close proximity and kept everybody safe, which which was amazing.
You're a board member of the PGA Tour. You talk about the dark days of the last eighteen months with the Live Tour starting Live good for golf or bad for golf?
I think competition in anything makes the game in your product better. So few were to say that it has to make make whoever comes out on top is going to be stronger because of it.
Do you see a way that any of and let's just talk about the sort of the bold adjustments that Live did too, specifically would be the team based format and the second would be three rounds, no cuts. Do you think that there is any scenario that that makes its way onto the PGA.
Tour Three rounds no cut.
I don't see making it on the PGA Tour. I think the PGA Tour will try to implement if some sort of deal gets done. Even if a deal doesn't get done, maybe try to try to integrate some team golf.
But it's hard.
I mean, we've run the models, we've runs. It's very very hard to implement because golf is such a traditional game and traditionally it's you against the golf course and people have liked our product hasn't been bad, people have always watched it. No, I think it'd be hard to implement, but I think there could be a spot for it. But I a full schedule, a full tour around the team Golf I don't think lives on.
But that's well. See are you in support of the merger.
I think anything to bring the golf world sort of back together would be a good thing, So I guess I could expand into that with I really do think the piff and and Yaser want the best for the game of golf. And obviously there's some political issues we got to get through, and everybody's got to get through. But I think if you can grow the game of golf in Saudi Arabia or the Middle East to mainstream for them, I think it's better for the game of golf.
If you can grow your global brand globally, then it's got to be good for the game of golf.
You get more people playing the game of golf is good. It's great for everybody.
So with that analogy, I think I think something does get done.
I'm hopeful something gets done, but it's it's far from even far from done, that's for sure.
Really, So so the idea that there is that the merger has been agreed to, there's still a lot of steps.
Oh, there's a ton of steps.
I mean, I think both both sides got to come off their high horse a little bit and go, all right, what's what's what's really the end game here?
What are we trying to do?
And I think I think that's what they're all trying to figure out now and lots more people in that room, and then they're hopefully persenting something to us in the near future so we can so we can end it or go on. I mean, I think it's everybody's sort of tired of live versus the PGA tour. Larry, Let's see where we end up here and hopefully figure it out. In my mind, my mind's not made up on that's going to be the deal yet, since I'll probably be a vote.
In all that decisions.
And uh, but from ten thousand feet right now, I think it'd probably best for the game of golf if something does get done.
Yeah, it's a weird.
I mean, I have I'll love to tell you It's just such a complicated thing, right because as you mentioned the political ramifications. You know, as a fan, you just get aggravated because, as you said, it's an individual game and you want all of the best individuals competing against each other.
Could you integrate an individual aspect and a team aspect sort of like what the list trying to do.
I'm not saying, I'm just I'm just asking a question. I don't know if they can.
I don't know even if the fans want to engage in that. We talked about content. Could you have a team event back to on the first three days. Say you're there six days. First three days have some sort of team event. In the last three days you have an individual event. I don't Can you integrate that? I don't I don't know. I don't know those answers. It sounds very complex on it will say our content has been really good for a lot of years. Why are we going to try to screw with it?
Is?
If I step back and look at it, I think traditional stroke play golf has worked. Even match play match play golf works great, and team team events and Ryder Cup and Presidence Cup, but traditionally in the viewership in a match play event on the PGA Tour ward golf, and it isn't really any good because you can't forecast who's going to be in that last game or last match so you can get right. So the match plays really traditionally has not worked in the game.
Of golf, right, but you but people do. I mean, it's funny because that was what I was just about to say. I mean, people do get behind the President's Cup and the Ryder Cup, which is a team competition.
We're playing for countries, not just I know, not the high high flyers or the aces. I mean, it's just it's every roots for the countries or the international team. Everybody wants to be in America.
That's why.
I mean, it's that's why it goes and and there's always a match and always means something like traditional match play.
Are you like NCAA tournament.
Every watched it because it's a great competition no matter who's in the final, it's always going to be great if it's an upset or or or high higher ranking teams. But it's it's just doesn't in my mind, doesn't match play doesn't work individually in golf, but from the when you're representing your country.
It's it's just something different. It's always worked.
It works in the Olympics, it works in in the President's Cover, works in the Ryder Cup.
But I don't know.
I mean, I guess, yes, if this goes, if the team golf lives on for X amount of years, will gain some traction and people will But how do you build that. I don't know, there's not it's just it's very complex.
I don't I don't know.
I mean, I think that what's good for the game is getting the players back together, that you get that you're seeing everyone competing at.
The same venue.
I mean as a fan, well, we gave the golden ticket to the majors, let's be honest.
Well, yes.
That was I mean literally, the golden ticket has gone to every major championship. By the way, if you're not a golf fan, the PGA Tour or nobody owns the majors. Besides the Majors, the PGA of America owns the PGA Championship, the USGA owns the US Open August, the Masters own the Masters.
And the RNA own the British Open.
We get no TV revenue, we get no besides, as a player, we get the revenue at the purse, but we get no revenue sharing of any sort in any of those major events, the four biggest events that we put on, and then you throw the Ryder Cup in, we don't even have any part of that. We have part of the President's Cup, but our four or five biggest generating revenue sport or events we don't even get
a piece of. And think about how strong we are without those, so right, I mean you talk big pictures like could you have an organization that all this falls on around one umbrella, like a FIFA or something like that. Now, now you could have something that's strong and sort of help each other out enough that I don't I don't think that's ever.
Been discussed really, But it's it's back.
To getting everybody together. That's that would that would get everybody together, That.
Would get everybody, That would get everybody together.
So you said starting the other tour, having competition makes everything stronger, makes total sense. Do you think that if a merger goes through, which it doesn't sound like you're sure that it will, but if if it happens, at some point, can guys be forgiven for leaving.
I mean, I don't on the on the player, so I think majority of it understood why they left.
I mean the they.
Cashed in and the reality you can't understand why, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can understand why they left, definitely, and forgive them. I think the tone that I've heard through the players, now, as long as we were rewarded in some way by staying right, there wouldn't be that big of an issue. So we we got something for staying, they got something for leaving, and now we're.
All coming back together and everything stronger and everything's better.
I mean, every everybody wants to see the best players play against each other. I mean, is a PG Tour stronger with Brooks, Koepka and DJ and Bryson playing a PJ Tour event?
Of course it is, right, there's But will the PJ Tour go on without them? Of course it will. So it's funny there is that.
There is an interesting thing and I'm not going to mention any names. I mean, that's the great thing about golf, right is that everybody roots for somebody different.
Right, But if you're a baseball fan, there are teams that you don't like.
Yeah, right now, this is these are about personal feelings. But this is this is the genesis of sports. If you are a fan of the University of Georgia, you don't like Florida, Like right, there were a lot of guys who left who were considered villains like that. I mean, let's just be clear, like there were people that you did not root for, and again, you missed that. Even if you're not rooting for those guys at times, you miss that ye as a fan, but.
The play the opposite idea.
Probably one of the nicest guys on tour go also Cam Smith, Yeah, I mean one of our biggest Yeah yeah, yeah, but I agree with what what you're saying that, But I wouldn't say those guys weren't missed. But our ratings haven't changed at all since that's happened.
It really actually only gave more power to.
The major championships because there's their venues way more intriguing. How that we're all playing together, which is great, I mean, it's great time, it's.
It is and I'm I'm I'm glad to hear your support though you personally are not interested, but the support and you being on the board obviously, Matt, you know you had something to do with the fact that full swing happened, you know, being able to get to know guys, tell the story personally and tell that story. I mean, it's just great. And the drama is great and brings people in not to.
Interrupt you, but interrupt you.
But that's what I think is great about the PGA tour because there is downtime and we'll give Jim Nance maybe the best storyteller of all time has time to tell stories in between shots and people coming down the stretch while live.
I've watched the content. I'm a fan of golf, that you don't have that time. There's so much going on.
There's no now the content and there's I mean there's a ton of shots going on the same but you never have any time to tell the story. And I think what people like to do on a weekend and sort of sit there and hear about the guy. And I think something in our new format that we're going to with the signature events that we're gonna miss. And I've stressed this on board meetings and I'll say it publicly, is gonna lose that We're going to lose that storytelling
of Thigala. At WM a couple of years ago, trying to beat something Brooks trying to beat somebody big coming down. You lose those storylines by only having the top fifty or seventy in the world playing against each other and then everybody's familiar with which.
I think that's what the PGA Tour is all about. So I don't know how this is going to go.
I've said this this morning to people, I've said it in the past. I don't think we got our product quite right yet. The new formula, well, we'll get it right, I promise you that. But what we're going to put in front of you is is going to be a good try. But I think we're going to miss some of that storytelling that has made the PJ Tour so special.
That story part is very, very valuable to the PGA Tour.
Yeah, you have a foundation, weird the name is the Charlie Hoffin Foundation original, but I know you do a ton for kids, not just in San Diego but also Las Vegas as well. Tell me about why you started that and what you guys, what you guys have done to keep.
It somewhat short.
Back when early years on tour, Craig Staller used to do an event for Sandegor Junior Golf here in town.
He used to raise a.
Bunch of money for Sandy Juno Golf with with an event the week of the Farmer's Centational back then bo Convitational, and he'd moved on and they weren't having it anymore. And it was my first or second year on tour, and they approached me and I'm like, I'm just trying to keep.
My job out here.
You want me to raise money for Sandy or GENI I thought it was an honor, but I'm like, how long can I keep this running? You got a previous Masters champion running the event or putting lending his time and effort to the event, and you've got a rookie on tour that really has hadn't had a ton of success in any any time.
But we did the event.
It was successful, and then we sat back at my wife and I sat back and go, well, how can we do this?
Make this better? Let's not just focus on San Diego and June Golf. Let's get something.
Not that I not indebted to San Diego Jingolten who became and who made me, but let's make a real difference. Let's come up with something that we truly do believe in, and someone gave us the direction of you've got to be focused in your in your charity effort or you sort of get lost.
Yeah, So our.
Mission statement is children's charities, which is still fairly vague but at least somewhat focused. So Strigal falls under that. Then pro Kids Golf here in San Diego, which is heavily supported.
Uh, we're sort of forced.
First Tea was framed after and very obviously supported by the PGA tour. And then cissy fibrosis is the one that's near and dear our heart. My brother's wife lost two sisters of sissifibrosis, So it's I can go on and on about sis fibrosis, but it's it's one that's close to us. Since we started X amount of years ago, we have seen the average age of a child i'd say from a teenage or the late teens with life expects me to people in their forties now, depending on
what strand you have, what drugs you can have. But it's really changed. It's not widely supported by the government. That's why individual funding sort of hopefully get rid of this cisfibrosis. But it's something that we do truly believe, and so that's how it started here in San Diego. Then I was living in Las Vegas, went to school there, obviously spent twenty years of my time there. So we started doing an event in San Diego or so sorry Las Vegas with coinciding with the SPINERSH Hospital open.
Very very gratifying.
As I say, I always grew up dreaming of playing on the PGA Tour, dreaming of being one of the best golfers are play. But I never dreamed, and I still pinched myself again my chills every time I talk about is. I never dreamed I'd be able to give back and raise money for people that are less fortunate than me.
And it's really I mean, golf is sort of why I'm.
Known, but hopefully my legacy is what I've done and given back to communities in which I've lived in and helped other people that are less fortunate than I am.
Well in that right there is is why you're a great guy.
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
That's really what it's all about. I wish you all the best. I know it's a it's a difficult job. I mean, thank god that someone is willing to do it, being on the board of the PGA Tour during this time, but I think they're lucky to have a leader like you to help get us through.
Yeah, we're all here. We're trying to Obviously.
I consider myself a very an entertainer, and we all want the best entertainers to be together performing in the same spot. And hopefully we end up in that position. But if it's not the best thing for our product, we're not going to end up there. And hopefully we get to that point for the players and everybody else that loves the game of golf and loves watching us entertain And I'm optimistic that we get to that point and we put the best product forward and everybody's PGA Tour fans for life.
I love it. Charlie. I'll see you Friday, all right.
We'll be money cash cash money, nice time. Yep, Charlie, you can gearron Tea. I'm gonna take all that money on Friday. You give me enough strokes. I should thank you, buddy for coming on and for sharing your insights and for being so candid. I appreciate that. Listeners thank you as well. I hope you've been enjoying this string of athletes on the show because next week we have got yet another big name in the world of sports. Come back to find out who, But until next time, have
a really good week. Off the Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer lingg Lee. Our senior producer is d Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Ali Amir Sachem. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Brad