Carey Bennett

like Carrie Bennett, Nobody for costume research. She called up, hunted down, scouted a real life paper company just to nail the looks. And it is not like she had all the money in the world. No, she had a tiny budget, but many many J. C. Penny suits. Now, some people may think that the Office was just how hard could that be? It's just suits and ties and maybe a little awkward haircuts. No, Carrie made sure every

character was was individual. They had their own look, whether it was Phyllis's purple tops or Michael's bizarre ties or Dwight's aviator glasses. Personally, I was a little too aware that Kevin never ever, ever took off his jacket even when playing basketball. But hey, that's Carrie. So without further ado, I would like to introduce you all to our amazing costumes designer Carrie Bennett. Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble and Squeaker, Bubble and squeaker cookie, every moment left

over from the nutty. Well, there she is, right, Carrie, how are you. It's so good to see you. Likewise, Oh my gosh, how are you. I mean, I'm doing good. I'm great. Everybody's healthy on your end. Yeah, yeah, we've somehow evaded any kind of cooties. Very good. Avoiding cooties are good, especially after two years. I don't even know how it's possible, right, Yeah, just just one day at

a time, One day at a time, that's right. So you and I, Oh my gosh, this is so amazing because in preparation to talk to you, I remember so many of our conversations back in what do you call it a trail? The trailer the costume trailer? Is that right? Yeah? We have like a like a trailer in the parking lot. A trailer in the parking was our headquarters. Yeah, it's maximum glamour. Well that's the television. Right, everybody thinks that

it's glamorous, but it's really not. Is that Is that what you dreamed of when you were a child, that kind of glamour in television? Um? So I saw, because well I researched you. I've got a team researching there's so many people researching it. You went to cal Arts I did, which I know what cal arts is. So I assume at an early age you were interested in the arts. Now was costume design what you wanted to do early on? Yeah? You know, Actually my undergrad degree

is in dance. And during that time I worked in the costume shop and I always sewed. I just always like crafty. And I had a teacher there that was like, you have the best energy for working in television. She planted that seed. And um So, when I graduated as a dancer and had like injuries all the time, and I was like, is this my life? Is this what I'm going to do? Going to be in physical therapy forever? Um?

And I you know, I had sort of like this little bit of a costume base that I had been doing dance productions and stuff, and I put together the most hilarious lame portfolio anybody out there who wants to be a costume designer shouldn't look at my portfolio because I did not have to draw at that point. Um, but I just put it out there, and I got into cal Arts as a grad student, and oh my god, it was the best thing I ever did. It was

so great. I learned all the stuff. They have an amazing theater program there and just gave me the confidence to be like, oh, you know what I'm talking about. Now I can draw, and I can I can sew and design concepts and here we go. Right, So you were a dancer who had designed costumes for dance recitals? Is that what you That's the word, right, recitals? And then you were like, I'm gonna make a change. You do a portfolio, you apply to cal ARD's get in

as a costume designer. Is that? Is that what you got in? You got in? Is that? And you didn't know how to draw? Barely? Right? It sounds like every single person journey on the office, everybody who got to the office actually didn't know what they were doing in a traditional sense before it happened. Well, I mean, the thing is like, there's a long journey between that and getting on the office though for sure, right, No, I know that. I just I joke because well, there's so

many people, right. So Claire Scanlon, our editor, had never edited scripted television before Randall Einhorn matt Son. They had never shot, not even to speak of directing scripted television before Phillis, who was not an actor when she started. I mean so that that I don't know that theme, there's something, there's something there right, well you know what?

And here, yes, and I know what it is. Actually, what that is is the fear of not being able to pull it off and the earnestness of like getting it right, Like, Okay, I got I was given this job, I'm gonna do it. I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to do it to the best of my ability.

And I feel like that that incredible earnestness we all had for wanting it to be authentic and to really you know, get the details right and stuff like I mean, I can say it now as a you know, I still strive for that, but like I'm older and you know, I've done it, and I don't know that I dig that deeply into it. I mean, my the preparation and the research that I did to accomplish my work on the Office is legendary in my career. Oh my god,

well I really want to hear about that. But I want to I want to start where you and my relationships started, not that I worked on the show, but I we discussed a lot about it. You're the designer on Scrubs for a long period of time. I find that so interesting because the characters on Scrubs are very

easily identifiable by their wardrobe. However, they're all wearing scrubs, right, most of them are all wearing the same thing, and so you know in leading up to the office, not that that was your not that that was your rehearsal, but I find it very interesting that you were able to find unique looks based in character for people who were largely wearing the same thing. Can you talk to me a little bit about Scrubs and your experience there. God,

you are You're amazing. You've done your research. Thank you so much for recognizing that, because yeah, that is where the real magic comes from, and that is where my research is the golden ticket there. Because on Scrubs, I

went with our director Adam Bernstein on the pilot. We went to a hospital downtown in downtown l A. It's kind of a little bit of a scary um the Scarier hospital, And we had a tour and um, I wasn't allowed to take photographs, but I had my little notepad there and I mean, I just I just drank it in because I never assume that I know what I'm talking about, because I feel like that's where it

looks cheesy, like, oh, doctors where this? But there were so many details that I gleaned from that, and so many characters that I witnessed and saw them working and saw their little details and saw, you know, like the Doug character that I saw a guy like wearing a Fannie pack with his water bottle attached to it. He had like his his personal gear, you know, not like his works, like his stethoscope and stuff like that. He had his person like he was like a commando in

the yeah, like he had his stuff. And I thought that was fascinating. And so that that to me, that is like I considered the bulk of my work is getting into the NATI ready and taking those pictures. If I can't take pictures, I'm constantly taking pictures of people on the street I'm sorry everybody out there, I'm sneaking a picture of you. My grandma taught me how to do that. Like she she was a painter, and she

one time taught me at the airport. She's like, oh, see those cute ladies over there, I'm gonna paint them, but first I need to get a photograph of them. And here's how you do that. You put your camera down at your hip and you aim it at them, and you look the other direction and you take a picture. Yeah. Well, listen, let me tell you something. I can speak from personal experience. I know now that they're taking a picture of that, right,

We'll see. Now it's different. It sounds creepy now, right, But I mean the thing is, like, as far as research goes, like, that's the thing, and it's just because I truly want to honor the special mojo that that person has, Like I want to get those details right, because that's what really makes a difference. And that's what really shows when everyone's wearing the scrubs or when everyone is wearing suits and ties, Like how do you make that look different? Like how do you you know? That's

that's the real challenge, you know. I was thinking about it last night. Not to go too deeply personal, but my my dad was a doctor and worked at a at a hospital research hospital, and so as a kid, I thought, oh, this is what doctors were, right, Like he had slacks, button down shirt tie and his white lab coat and so like my brain as a child went, oh,

that's that's what doctors were, right. And then later on, and I was thinking about this last night, I realized, like, no, that's not exactly what all doctors were, right, this is what my dad wore, and what he wore and how he dressed affect people's impression of him who he was as a character, because even in that uniform, I think to your point, like, there is an individuality and you're either delivering a message or a message is set based

on on what you're wearing. But I think, you know, really what's interesting for me is it sounds like for you it's about character, right, So the wardrobe is defined by by that, right, and that's in collaboration with the writer. Absolutely, I mean, that's that's the whole process. And it's funny, like I just want to clarify, like, because I this is so ran. This never happens to me it probably happens to you all the time, but they hadn't approached me at a restaurant. Was like, I never, it never

happens to me. But we had a conversation about the Office and doing costumes for it, and he was like, oh, so you did the Gym's three Whole Punch costume for Halloween and the Ben Franklin Think And I was like, no, no, no, no no. Every single thing that every single person wears is designed, and it's thought through from the reading of the script figuring out who those people are, what their

backstory is. There's input from the producers, there's input from the writers, there's input from the directors, and of course the most important, incredible input is from the actor who's thinking it through like how they want to do it. So I've always thought of myself as sort of like the filter, like I taken all that information and filter it down to something that makes sense quickly. As soon as you see those characters on the screen, you have to sort of get a feeling of who they are,

where they shot. I mean, their clothing is what broadcasts where they're coming from, kind of you know, and yet you don't want it to broadcast too much. You don't want it to be like, oh, you know, you want it to be subtle. So so yeah, so it's it's all that well, and I think on Scrubs on the Office as well, Right, there's um, well, specifically the Office, it's about creating real people and sort of a reality. So yeah, it's not about indicating certain things. It's about

sort of getting at the essence. Okay, so getting into the office. So I read I didn't remember this. You started working on the Office during a hiatus of Scrubs, Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, I did the two shows for four years. I did. I did both shows at the same time, which, in retrospect was insanity insane that how could you possibly do? I mean, is not a small cast show either. By the way, in case you

didn't remember, there were a lot of characters there. Um we had what sixteen eighteen twenty, I don't know how many people you were war drobing on a weekly basis, Oh, like so many. It was a lot. It was completely fueled by uh, Starbucks. It was you know, it just worked out perfectly. It was such that like our studio was there in the valley and Scrubs was kind of you know, a few blocks away and they're literally like,

I'm not kidding. There was a Starbucks in between, and I would just go back and forth all day long. I would stop at Starbucks, grab a coffee, read my script. I don't remember ever sleeping, right, I'm sure not. I think I was doing seventy hour weeks on both shows. Oh my god, that's not that, it's not insane. So when you started work on the office, it's not everybody

in scrubs, right, but it's everybody in business attire. What was your process for trying to again give some specificity and individuality to the characters there through what would on the outside again being like, oh, this is just what you wear to work? Yeah, well, once again, I started my whole process like, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I never worked in an office myself, so I just and it's like, you know, it's going back to the thing. It's like a little bit of fear,

like how am I going to get this right? So I always start my research like trying to get myself on the ground somewhere where I can immerse myself and see what it really looks like. And um, I don't know. I talked to the ladies on office ladies that they had never heard the story. They had no idea. I found a paper company in Glendale here at my next little town over, and I invited myself over there. I spoke to the owner and I was like, Hey, I'm

doing this show, I'm researching. Would it be okay if I came over and just added with you and just you could just give me a tour. And I got there and oh my god, Bryant, it was beyond amazing. It was so awesome. All the characters were there, all the look of it was there. It was stunning. And it had some similarities to the UK version, like they had that fish on the wall, that fish on the plaque that they had that, and I was like, really

big mouth bath or something. Yes, yes, yes. So they were so wonderful and kind and let me take pictures and I talked to everybody in there and got such an incredible vibe from I took a thousand pictures. I put them in a little slide show. I put a little music to it, little Welcome to the Working Week, and I brought it back and I showed Greg and he was like, what is this? Where is this, you will take me back here. You can take me to

this place. So we went back. We went with our DP, and we went with our production designer and we all went back there and filmed everything. And I think I started a relationship with them, Like we used all of their paper products. It was just such a vibe and I think they still exist. I actually saw their truck the other day. I don't want to say their name because I don't, but that's amazing. It was amazing, and

so that's what gives me a touchstone. Like I referred back to those pictures so many times, like when I don't know, when I was tired and I was like trying to figure out my umpty character, like new person coming in that had to be a regular person, that had to be different than the last regular person. You know.

It's like I had that little touchstone that I could go back to and go like, oh, yeah, remember that little detail or the way they wore their pants, or when I first went it was like their casual Friday um and guy there that was my dwite inspiration. He was wearing like a T shirt with a wolf on it that day that I went, and I was like, oh,

I that is amazing. But that's and that's what I'm saying, Like I feel like back in the day, like that's that like that extems from like sort of my fear of not getting it right right, So I was like, I gotta get some concrete visuals and that's insane. Yeah. Well, and you know that's exactly what John Krasinski did too, right, I mean that's literally exactly what he did. He was in New York. I mean, he lived in New York and was like, well, Scrans only two hours away, I

guess I should go see it. And he went to pen Paper there and started talking to the people who worked at the paper company there. Oh my god, I didn't know that. Yeah, he went to That's so amazing. I didn't do that. I didn't go to a paper company, to be clear, I didn't. I didn't do that. Um but I but I find that really interesting that that

a real person, Yeah, inspired that. I mean, Dwight's a great example, right, Like, on the one hand, it's work attire, but those mustard shirts and you know, almost gives it. I don't even know that I've ever articulated this before, but almost a militaristic look in a weird way that color and very straight lace that's interesting well, and to like a lot of his look. You know. Another thing that I really dedicated myself too was shopping where these

people would shop. Oh, like, that's the trickiest thing in Hollywood, because like there's so much magic that goes into like just a basic T shirt. You know, like there cut every different magical way with magical fabric to make actors

look amazing. But I was like, you know what, we need to shop people's shop, And so I did a lot of J. C. Penney, which I don't know if they still do it, but at the time, it is amazing deal where you could get if you were like a working guy, you go and get your suit outfit there and it would have a suit, a shirt, a tie, a belt, and maybe the socks. The socks and it was like a whole one price, like a hundred bucks.

And I was like, that is so awesome, Like that's that's exactly what I would do if I was this guy working in office, I would go like get my three suit outfits. And we all said, well, they had those amazing colored suits like the olive green and that ochre and that sort of putty color, and it just started to make a story for me and yeah, I don't know, I just ran with it and it just

suited him so well. And yeah, it did have kind of like a little we always toyed with the fact that he that he was kind of enamored with military or sort of German heritage and like, yeah, how much how much did you collaborate with rain on Dwight? Oh my gosh. He was so good at giving specific input and and he was always the one that would call me and go, hey, I think I wear a hat in this episode. Could it be this? Or like, what

do you think about this? Or he always had some kind of really great insight, and then we would just kind of hash it out together, like with this work and this, let's try this, and um, yeah he's tuned in to the subtleties and thinking about it, and yeah, I always had a special take on it. Yeah, it's really fun and easy to collaborate with. Yeah, I know,

what's so funny you just said that. I remember we had a big deal with the hat, you and I because it was Kevin when his band got established and we were looking for something that would be like this is what this is like the cape right of a superhero. This is what he puts on when he's in the band. And we had this hat, and I think we both loved this hat and it was there early on. And then the hat vanished. I don't know if you remember this. The hat left. It went away, like we don't No

one knows ever where it went. And so then it was like this whole thing and I'm sure I was such a pain in the ass. I was like, we were look, you guys brought in like seventy hats and I was like, no, no, it's not that it has to be because it was like, oh, you mean, I say, like it got lost, like it actually got like, yes, like it vanished. It was like it went away. And you know, we didn't do the the Scrantn City stuff that often, so you know, I don't remember how long

it had been. It had been a year, it had been whatever. And I know everybody keeps everything and it's all documented, but somehow this hat vanished. Yeah, there was a big deal about that. Um but I remember for Kevin and you and I talked a lot about this at the time that on a tradition, let's just call

it a traditional sitcom. There is a way that Kevin would have been wardrobed right, and it probably would have included food on his clothes, very messy, slovenly, like, not able to keep his shirt tucked in, like various things. And you know, well, one of the things that I'm really proud of about the show is that we were really trying to create real people and within that there are there are contradictions within what you would expect and and you know what's written on the page and what

the actual person would do. And I remember you and I we spent a lot of time. Look, it wasn't like he was going to Sacks or Barney's or Marcus, but it was like, no, he's gonna make his best effort and things might be a little off. Um. We explored a little bit early on. I don't know if you remember with his tie being a little bit shorter than it should be, um, but that he was always doing his best effort and so much so that I

was like, he wants to be put together. And one of the things we talked about was Kevin always wore his jacket Like for him, that was again like that was at work, you wear your jacket and you keep things together. And there were things that I at least thought were really funny that came out of that little character thing. One of which was, well, the basketball episode in the first season where he's making shot after shot and he's still wearing his coade, he's still wearing his

tie is not loosened. And you know, some of that stuff, obviously, depending on context, got got looser over time. But yeah, that it was about. It was a guy who was really putting his best effort forward and it may not look beautiful or whatever, but that we didn't go for the cheap joke. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's the earnestness that's so sweet and endearing. And I never want any of my research subjects to feel like they are being made fun of. That is is never my intention.

My intention is to get to the heart of what makes somebody tick, and that, to me, is so delicious and adorable about every human being. We all have. Those things are weird, little vidio secrecies. That's the thing that you have to find in each character, and and the vulnerability, and I just keep coming back to the earnestness, the earnestness that Kevin wore his his jacket, you know, and and um, I think that's what makes characters really endearing.

I think if you go for like the cheap like, oh he's this, he's kind of he's a mess, and he's got chili on his tie, it's so obvious that you kind of don't. It doesn't endear you two to the character. So I think it's I think it's really worth finding those little things and holding that line like

that's that's the real challenge. It's so funny because I've had to defend my I guess defend my work at times when I've had interviews these people like what costumes are there on the office And I'm like, hold on, you don't know these guys, like these are some of the hottest actors in Hollywood. They don't up in this gear. I don't know about that really. I mean, you look pretty slick right now. You have a great looking polo

shirt on. And you know, it was my job to take everyone down a little notch every day and to hold that line, like because after the first season, everybody wanted to be kind of more fancy and have their better clothing. It's like I stuck with it. I stuck with it through thick and thin. I stuck with it.

You know, we never we never got more pretty over here, I promise, well except except the uh, the wedding where suddenly Kevin has a very like, a very legitimately nice suit with fake hair, yeah, which is probably a rental, you know, And that's when you kind of things up a little bit, because you're wedding outfits are rental. Sometimes

it's not really like the stuff you own. But yeah, I remember, I remember being remember being difficult to find your blazers, your cool blazers that were just like these kind of textured kind of from be It was hard to find those, you know, they weren't slick looking. They

weren't you always worked. No, they weren't. And there and I, oh my gosh, I haven't thought about this in years and years because I because I remember being, oh god, I remember being super defensive because there was something with our Because by the way, guys in Hollywood here, when you're shooting an episode and especially in the office, you're wearing the same thing every day for five days. So occasionally these things, over the course of just normal hygiene,

they have to be cleaned. But they started um through the cleaning process or something or the material they were using, they started shrinking and I would be like, guys, this doesn't fit. And I'm sure everyone's like, okay, Brian, way to go, and I'm like, no, no, And I don't know if you remember, but they would be like the arms would be like three inches like they were coming up my arm and I would be like, guys, my arms not growing like this is not I mean, yeah,

so welcome to my world. This is so funny. I mean the one time Greg Daniels came on our trailer and he looked at how it was all set up with all the closets laying there, and he was like he looked at Michael Scott and he goes, why does he have so many of the same suit? Why does he have like why? And I was like, oh, yeah, an episode takes place, the story takes place in one day, right, but it takes us five or six days to shoot that five or six full days to shoot. So yeah,

stuff happens. I mean, you go to lunch with your suit on and it gets spaghetti sauce on it, or I remember Steve like slipped down the stairs of his trailer at one time and actually ripped the ripped his suit or sweetie, like he ripped the elbow. So that's the thing. So we have multiples, so like I would never but and that's what also makes the challenge. I'm trying to find these funny numbly suit coats for you and but also in multiples, which was really really hard.

So I think we had for you less because yours were so unique, like we had less of each one and yeah, sh it happens, like and because they're dry cleaned every day, and I'm sorry, oh my god, I have not thought about that so long. I just remembered being like, well, because for me, it was like it wasn't so much that that happened because I knew something. We would figure something out. But it was like, no, this is not my fault, guys, this is not me. My arm didn't grow. But maybe it was maybe it

helped your character. Yet what was the budget, Like, oh my god, okay, because what was it? What was the budget? Like Gary, tiny dude? Okay. At one point I compared it to you because my I was doing scrubs and my regulars on scrubs were I think I had six to eight regulars scrubs and they're pretty much wearing scrubs and office. I had how many regulars? Twenty? Do you know at the point I had this is do the math for a second. I had five thousand dollars less a week to spend on the office us that I

had on scrubs place as many people. And scrubs are not expensive, by the way, actual scrubs. Oh my gosh. So yeah, So we so Jennifer Siri and I. She was my supervisor back then, so that position runs the department. Um. She and I would go out to the I was gonna say, called the discount malls, out to the call thank you the outlet malls. We would take two trips a season. We would do this big drive out to Calabasas, out to the outlet malls and we would just stalk up.

And I think it was great too. Was that things there were like a little bit a little dated a little bit last season. I mean that was kind of my whole concept anyways, for the overall show. It's just that it would be a little dated looking, because I feel like that also lends a little vulnerability to it, like we're not we're not super slick and you know,

we're in the latest, latest, greatest. But yeah, so that's we would just come back with carloads of stuff the out level and then try to make it work and try and and just rotate, rotate, rotate, you know, mix and match, and which is what people do, right, Well,

that's what people do. Well, It's funny that you bring up the dated concept because you know, part of why I talking to you now, and I've talked to so many people, is really about why the show now, why it's exploded, why we have more fans now than we did when we were actually shooting. And you know, one of the things that this is at least my theory

about it. A documentary by definition can't be dated, right Like you you don't watch a documentary on the sixties and be like, oh, that's dated, Like, no, it's about sixties. It's about that period of time. So you know, not having the latest and greatest means that there is never the latest and greatest that can look um that that can look dated or like oh they were pretending, or you know, that it gives anything beyond what it is.

Even I feel like this is true that even when we were dressing up for a special occasion, a wedding or whatever. It was all sort of very classically nice outfits, right, not like you know, the newest trend. Yeah. And and

I mean it really was about where I shopped. Like that's the thing, like I really, um, I know, Jenna, we had a moment where she had had to regimes for something and she was and she you know, she had done so many other everybody was doing movies and all kinds of projects and getting all kinds of fancy clothes.

And she walked into that fitting and there was like stuff from the Gap and stuff from old Navy, and and you know, she was used to wearing you know, fancy fancy stuff that costs maybe two to four dred dollars. And she was like, oh oh, I was like I know, I know, I know, but we're holding the line. I feel like that was I was like the I was like the warrior holding the line. I'm like, we gotta keep it real, like we've gotta it's it's what this person would do, and and it informs, it informs how

you feel when you wear. You know, if you if you're all wearing that these super super genes, you're gonna strut, and that's not that character. It's the same. Like the shoes make a huge difference. You don't ever see shoes on a TV show, but like it really makes a big difference. I'm sorry Angela Kinsey because she had to wear she had to wear those nursey, those spongy nurse shoes all the time. But that it informs so much about how you feel and how you act. That is

so true. I'm gonna tell you a little secret right now. I this is this, This is probably crazy. This is definitely actor nerdy. But if there were times, and there are times on a on a television set, right you come in but you're not on camera for whatever reason. You know you're there to do a scene with someone else, but you shot your side before lunch and they're not going to see you, and so you still need to

be there or whatever. I always put on my shoes always, always, when I'm playing a character, I always put on the shoes of the character wears, because that so I have not just on the office, but on multiple projects. You there will be there, I'm sure behind the scene photos where I'm like wearing this wouldn't be the office. But like fans eat wing tips or something, and shorts like shorts like totally whatever I wore into work in a

hundred degrees summer weather. But no, I would have I put on the shoes because the shoe, it affects the way you move, the way, yeah, the way you stand. All of that. Absolutely, I'm so proud of you. I'm so happy to hear you say that, because it really does. It matters. I don't go in full wardrobe. I'll be

honest with you about that. I don't do that. Um So, I want to talk a little bit about you working with Steve, you know, one, just working with him and helping to create Michael Scott through the wardrobe, but also conversations that you and he may have had between like seasons one and two, when Greg was looking to to soften Michael a little bit and to make him more likable, the same guy, but but give a little bit of a reason to maybe root for him. Is there any

any specific memories you have about that. Yeah, actually I was. I feel like I was at the forefront of the synthesis of that because it was a real challenge and I remember feeling really anxious about because Ricky Gervais played it so beautifully and his thing was like that tick

where he would touch his tie all the time. And when we were first having conversations about this, and I remember being in Greg's office and um looking at the tapes of the original and there was a lot of talk about like, well, we got to make the ceiling tiles look like this because that's how they had it there, and and you know, kind of obsessing about like the details of how are we going to make this be like that show? And I remember thinking in my head like,

oh gosh, I can't do this. If that's if we're going to try to copy this, I can't. I can't do that. I'll go crazy trying to like figure out the copy of these details. And so I really at that moment sort of was like, all right, I gotta find my own way. And yeah, with Steve's character, what is it going to be? Is he going to be the same as Ricky Saves? And I think in the beginning he was kind of more hard. And then I'll never forget I remember fourty year old Virgin came out,

and I'll never forget. Greg Daniels saw it, and I remember having a conversation with him and he was like, Wow, Steve is so vulnerable in that movie, and I was like yeah, And it was almost like for Greg, I feel like this moment of like really seeing Steve and all that he could do, like all that he could pull off as an actor and remember sort of thing like yeah, yeah, like he he can be vulnerable, Like that's there, that's something we can we can draw on.

And for me it was and really for all the characters, for all the boys, Um, the tie story. The tie story was what was the flavor of each guy. And I think it is for guys like they go pick their tie and that he ties us so much about you. But I feel like Michael Scott in particular like his ties. I feel like he thought his ties really cool, but in reality they were just kind of these muddy, undetailed, uh kind of static like they weren't they didn't have

a particular voice to them. And I was really dedicated to those damn ties. Oh my god. I would go to the end ends of the earth trying to fight. And I feel like that, to me kind of like was his his special vulnerability as a boss, Like he always felt like he needed to be he needed to be something that he wasn't. He's always trying to be so cool, Like he's always trying to be cool and one of the guys and all this, you know, and UM,

it just wasn't him. It just wasn't him. And so that's what that's what makes him so wonderfully funny, is um trying to pull off being somebody that he wasn't, you know. And if he just if he could just like just chill out, dude, Like you don't need to be be this everything to everybody, you know. Um. And yeah, So I think that's where we found his character. And I think it really took off, you know, because in the beginning to like the very first episode is the

exact same script from the from the English version. It's the exact same script. And I think that for the writers, I think got to you know. I think they were like, we can't can't do the exact same script, Like we have this amazing cast of people of actors that are bringing so much, you know, and I think about like Creed and Meredith and you know, Kate, like they were kind of these ancillary characters in the beginning, and they brought so much. They brought so much, and then it

became these great, huge characters. You know. So, um, I'm a completely off topic here, but I feel like this thing is like we were trying to copy, trying to copy the original, and then we realized that we had this incredible gift of talent and ideas, and like that's where it really just took off. Like that's where we started writing our own scripts and the characters really started to gel. And um, all these other ancillary characters became so strong and such a delicious part of it. And

here we are still talking about it now. It's crazy. What were a few of your favorite looks that you created? Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, well I do. I love Jim's three whole punch costume. That was amazing. And Angela's all Angela's little kitty chops with a million buttons that we change all the buttons into a little kittie head buttons. Gosh, I don't know, I mean, there's so many.

I mean I was thinking about too, you know, the episode that we did out in the park with the the Sumo um costume, the inflatable sumo costumes, and then somebody was gonna float out there, floating out there. Oh my God, so many wacky things. I mean, we went to we went to Ken Subornac and that costume came up and we're like, we're gonna, We're gonna float ed out on the lake in an inflatable costume. And I'm like, I'm like raising my hand like wait, wait, wait what.

I don't want to be in charge of this. I would get that costume, but that's not gonna that's no, that seems dangerous. And so we actually went to Kent's house, his swimming pool, and we had the stunt guy and I was like, here's the thing. His body is inflatable, which will make his head the heaviest part of it. His head is going to go underwater, right, which is exactly what happened. Yeah, you know it's like stuff like this,

like this is the these are the challenges. So anyways, like that's then I made a helmet that if you look, the helmet is like this sumer, it looks like hair, looks like a big yeah, but it's actually it's a flotation device. Well, I mean, yeah, all those things you don't see. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I had no idea. You were you were literally designing to save lives. But that should be that should be the new costume guild, like motto we designed to save lives,

Carrie Bennett. It's just all those challenges that people don't realize that it's it encompasses a lot like and that every single thing that every single person wears is literally thought through, designed, doubled, died, altered. It's a huge task and um, it was a huge amount of costumes. I remember the A. D. S the battle plan that they had. Do you remember like they would meet you in the morning and they would have this rainbow colored thing of

where everyone was going to be. You're gonna go into hair and makeup now, and you'll go to costumes and you do you know it was it was such a tremendous undertaking every day because it wasn't just like talking heads like you're talking to this person, there's two people in the scene. No, it was the entire cast in every scene, even if you're not talking, you're in the background. It was a massive undertaking. Yeah, I don't think we've

talked about that enough. Actually on this I may do a little deep dive into this and figure out like exactly how this came about because I think truly it innovated television production. I mean, I don't know that there's even been a show that's been as complicated or more, but I know that that other shows are using it now. And what Carry is talking about is the battle plan. You know, it was color coordinated by character where you were going to be from the moment you arrived until

everybody had to be on set. So in hair, in makeup, in you know, you need a costume fitting this morning, so you have to go to wardrobe, or you need to go see props, because props there's a special something that you have to deal with here or wherever else.

And so it like took you through the morning, whereas on most shows, you show up, you go to hair and makeup, you go on your trailer, you get dressed, and you're done because there's two, three, four characters usually at the beginning of the day, and they try to spread out people coming throughout the day. That's part of what they do. But on our show, you couldn't do that. Yeah,

that was that was insane. I mean that's true. I mean, looking back at it now, yeah, I mean it was really really effort, Like I really felt like we were. It was like a lot to accomplish every day, and we all just we just did it. I mean I remember meeting with all of the department heads production and props, and so we would just like meet in the parking lot before the production meeting and be like, Okay, I've got I'll take care of this. You got this, you

got that? What is this going to be? Like that? You know, we would just have like a quick little like you know like that. That was like kind of like our little sort of you know, valable. You know, the props guys have to be on set with props, but they also have to be in some cases either going to buy or create or making the props for the next week. And have you had Phil on here?

We have not. We have not talked to Phil. Oh God, okay, you have to have him because he and I worked so hand in hand and you know we had Again, this comes from like my sort of fear of getting it wrong. Um and stall started with when we had the fire department came there was a fire department part. Fire department uniforms are really specific to regions, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna I really need to get

the patches that go for Scranton. So I called the Chamber of Commerce there and was like and got a hold of this woman called named Mauri, and maybe I shouldn't say her name, but she was amazing, and I was like, you know, I told her the whole story, and I was like, do you think do you could you give me the phone number for the fire department or do you think somebody could go there and take a picture of the patches for me? I mean, I just and she was like, she's like, I'll do it,

I'll go I'll go do it. And she totally did it. She went to the fire department, she took pictures of the patches, she sent them to me, we recreated them. And then because she was so awesome, I called her all the time. I was like, hey, I mean, like a delivery service, is there's something, is there someone that you might know, or like a florist that you might know. And then it just became a regular thing. And then Phil started calling her and she was like, lose my number.

She was totally so wonderful. I mean, if she's out there like I don't of course I've lost track of her. She was amazing, um and then she set up Phil would know it was it maybe the third season. She was like, let's preempt our needs here because we always needed like daily stuff like a delivery guy the radio station that you know, just everyday things. She set up a thing that they advertised on the radio station out there.

Phil flew out there and people came to the mall and offered up there stuff from their businesses, like you know, T shirts from the radio station or what, just so that week it could be super authentic and that they and then they had to sign off that we were allowed to use the thing. So he when I forget, I think I was I couldn't go. I was I was doing scraps. I think I couldn't go. Um. But he went out there, and and when he went, I

was like, if you could. I gave him a little digital camera to take with him, Like if you could take pictures of every person you talked to, that would be the bomb. So he did that. I mean there was lines of people out the mall. He said, people followed him into the bathroom when he went to the bathroom, and they were bringing all of their stuff and a lot of stuff wasn't necessarily needed or useful. Like people, remember somebody brought cupcakes with everybody's face on them. It

was amazing, It was really amazing. So yeah, so I have all those photographs too that, um, you know, I would like take pictures of people in uniform kids like just like and so I have I have like my office catalog of people and it just was like endlessly inspiring to me just for those little little details. But yeah, when you watch The Office, like a lot of those

details are legit, legit Scranton artifacts that legit. Well, listen, if you need any more ammunition to have conversations when people are like, what did you do on the Office, how did you create? Like what they just wore suits?

Think about the number of times that the writers became obsessed on our show with characters playing other characters, right, so like famously Jim plays Dwight, but Kevin plays Phyllis, and Dwight plays Kevin and Phyllis and like everybody basically at some point and immediately you know who the characters are because of what they're wearing. So I if you need any more ammunition than that, you've got it. The mustard shirts, the bad text, your jackets, the sweaters, for Phyllis.

I guess the sweaters little her little matchy matchy outfits, matchy outfits and sweaters. Um. Thank you so much for talking to me, Carrie. I appreciate it so much. I mean the contribution that you have given everyone for the helping to create these characters through their looks um which now as we know Altars behavior is so it's so important to the entire creation of the show. So thank you one for that. And also thank you so much for coming on and talking to me and everybody here today. Oh.

I miss you so much. I'm realizing it's just been such a delight to be with you again. Thank you so much. Wow, Carrie, it was so amazing chatting with you. Thank you so much for joining me Now. As always, I will be back next week with another conversation, this time with the incredible Brian Whittle. What who's Brian Whittle? Oh?

Isn't he a character on the Office? And to that, I say, well, yes and no, there is a Brian Widow character, but he was named after the real life boom operator on the Office, and in true boom operator fashion, Brian has all the stories. He was there with us in the room where it happened as they say. I can't wait to bring the true Brian Whittle onto the podcast next week. But before I leave you, I have

one more exciting announcement. We've discussed it before, but after a couple more conversations here at the Office Deep Dive, I am going to be launching my new podcast, Off the Beat in February. Now, I don't want to give too much away, but I'm very excited and it is going to go beyond anything that we have done on here. That's right. I am talking about all of your favorite TV creators and actors, not just the Office, so stay tuned. Will be available before you know it wherever you get

your podcasts. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed by seth Olandski m