Busy Philipps

this world. I don't know what I am. Yeah. Well, hello there everybody, and welcome friends to another episode of

off the beat. It's me, as always, your host, Brian Baumgartner, and, as you just heard in that sneak peek, I have my conversation today with a woman who makes me laugh, busy Phillips, a woman who has been, well, busy get it, winning hearts on screen since well, since she first appeared as Kim on cult favorite freaks and Geeks, a show whose legacy it only lasted one season, but some could say it is the precursor, it is the the grand

parent to the office. Since then, she's been on everything, Dawson's Creek, Cougar town, white chicks, and last year she became an esteemed member of the incredible girls five. Ever, she also had a late night television show, busy tonight, that we talked about, and her podcast I was just on. Busy Phillips is doing her best. She is one of my favorites. We're going to deep dive into the brain

today of busy Phillips. Bubble and squeak. I love bubble and SQUIG, bubble and squeaker cookie every moon looked over from the nut people. What's up, busy? Hi Brian, how are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. It was my kid's first day of school today. Oh today, I know, New York is weird. Wow, okay, a random Wednesday. Well, yesterday it was like an open house kind of day for the kids, so maybe it was sort of technically yesterday, but not really, like they just went and saw their

classrooms and then today was like the real start. Well, that's nice, I guess. Did you get emotional? No, I have. My kids are old. Okay, what are they doing? Tours of the room. Then my older one doesn't do like my older one is in middle school but my little one is in fourth grade and they still do it in fourth grade so that they can like see their classroom, know where they're going on the first day. Like New

York is just so different than Los Angeles. It's crazy and obviously, obviously, but like I didn't realize that both kids like get themselves, like they get themselves to school. Oh, they walk or they well, my older kids walks and then the little one takes a bus. Wow, I know, big kids, big kids, big kids. I know, I know, it's nuts. It's nuts. Um, well, we call this in the business tip for TAT. I came on your podcast, which was a delight. Thank you for doing that. No,

I heard I is the best, the best. That's what people are saying. Yeah, the best guest ever on busy Phillips is doing her best. Uh, and now I am so excited to talk to you, but I want to start back earlier than that. When did you when did you start becoming involved in the arts or thinking you might want to perform or be an actor? Well, I mean, I think, like many of us, it was a thing that I always had since I was a very, very

small person. You know, I've been a parent now for a long time, but you know, it really is a parent a parent, a parent as a parent. It's a parent to a parent, a parent as a parent. Um that. Yeah, some kids just gravitate towards being the center of attention, wanting to perform, wanting to dress up, wanting to do shows and things, and I was very much that kid.

I also had, uh, pretty intense lisp when I was little, like little, little kid, and by the time I was in second and third grade it was still hanging on and that's when like speech therapists get involved and I think my mom felt like it was a really good opportunity to sort of combine a thing that she saw that I had an interest in with, you know, making sure that I could say my s is and my th h s and my rs correctly. So, you know.

So so I got sort of you know, she put me in some you know, little kid theater programs and extracurricular stuff. I was never a kid that was very sporty about you well, as I've gotten older I've become way more athletic, but I was like not I didn't want to move. I was like very happy to be in a cold theater. I also grew up in Arizona. Brand you don't want to play softball in a hunter

antent decree heat, and they do. I know, the golf they're like yeah, let's go out, we'll tee, we'll tee it off at six thirty and it's already a hundred and two. No, I mean I like I played softball for two years in elementary school and it was so hot and I like all the pictures of me are just like in the outfield laying down like trying to

not pass out from heat exhaustion. So I was very happy to be in a cold, air conditioned black box theater and I was really lucky because we found, through my best friend emily bb, this very cool children's theater, small children's theater school or whatever in in Scottsdale called actors lab of Arizona, and they had their like kid and teen program and the woman that ran it was really cool, like she just didn't do the usual kid plays, you know, like she had us write monologues about our

feelings and stuff. Like she really was like into it and I just knew that I wanted to do it. I like was very adamant from, I mean, I want to say, like fourth or fifth grade, that I was going to move to L A and be an actor and be in movies and beyond TV shows. Fourth or fifth grade, you were already there. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's cool. I mean it's interesting that your mom had that insight, that idea of like Oh, okay, so this is an

issue you're having. Well, let's dive into the pool, like let's do this and and challenge you in that way, knowing that you may have feelings about performing or whatever, but that's very cool. Yeah, I mean my mom also was a former. My mom wanted to be an actress when she was young and was the star of all the school plays. My older sister is four years older than me and she also did like school plays in theater and when she was in college was, you know,

in a bunch of shows in college. Um, so it was like it's definitely like a thing in our in us, in our family, you know. And just to be clear, though, for your listeners who don't know me, maybe I'm not related to anyone famous, but like sometimes a lot of times people think that I'm part of like the famous Phillips is from the Mamas and the Papas, like those Philips, that Phillips Family. I'm not. My Mom's a realtor. She

ended up not being an actor. My Dad's an engineer, but you know what I mean, like we were just people who like to perform. Yeah, so she was. She was always very encouraging and I think she felt like her parents kind of put the Kai Bash on her dreams of becoming an actor, and so she did not want to do that to me or my sister and she was always super encouraging and supportive, and both my parents.

But like really my mother was like, you know, my friend Jenny jokes that my mom was like the ultimate stage mom, and I would say, like that is true in some respects, but honestly, like when my sister decided to stop doing it, it wasn't a thing, like it was just like okay, that you're doing something else now. She really just wanted to support us in whatever was

making us happy. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, I've never talked about it or even thought about this before, but there's going to be a call to my mom later. I think my mom might be the same as your mom. I mean she was a singer, and I think it may have been her parents that discouraged her as well, because I've never talked about this. My grandparents, who were still alive at the time that I moved to Los Angeles, told my mom that I shouldn't move to Los Angeles

because everyone does drugs out there. Sure. Well. Well, to be fair, Brian, how how many parties have we been at where we're just doing the drugs, you and me, just in the corner? Um I. How did you get the name busy? You have different answers. I want the real answer here. The real answer is that it was it was just like a very natural nickname from Elizabeth because I was a very busy little baby and my sister is like four years older than me. I have

a babysitter. I had a babysitter in Chicago, where I was born and lived the first five years of my life, who was always calling me busy bath. So then it just became and it was like immediate. It was by the time I was a year old old. In my baby books, everywhere it just calls me busy. At first it's like, well, busy Beth is learning how to crawl, like busy Beth and then by the time or busy, busy, bath, not busy, Lizzy, busy, Liz, busy Beth, and then by the time I'm a year old, it's just busy, and

then it was busy ever since. So yeah, there you go. You heard it here. That's the real story, that's the truth. So you were doing theater very, very early on. What what led you to L M U, Loyola Mary Mount, Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, California? Well, a couple of things. Number One, you know, all teenagers think they know everything, which is the best and worst part of

being and having a teenager. Let me tell you, Um, but I knew, but what I knew about being a professional actor was that if you wanted to do TV and film, you went to L A, and if you wanted to do theater or musical theater, you went to New York. L A was also very close to where I grew up and went to hi Scottsdale. Yeah, so I auditioned and got into CAL arts to their Conservatory

Theater Program. But I had a few friends from high school who had graduated a couple of years earlier than me who were in the Undergrad Film Department at Loyal and Marymount University and at the time I graduated from my school in at the time, elm you was like quite small. It's not. Now it's like this huge school. It's so crazy to me and my mom because my family is like, historically speaking, Catholic. My mother like loves

the JESUITS FOR THE EDUCATION. So I was I was auditioning for Cal Arts, which is where I thought I was going to go. I had applied to a s U as like a backup, and my mom was like you really should just look at l m you. You already have friends there. It's in L A. It's not Kell Erts is like in Valencia. You're not gonna this isn't what you want. My Mom's not wrong, by the way. So I went from my audition. I flew out by myself.

My friend Eric, he picked me up, he drove me to my audition and then we went back to L M U and I turned in my application there and like looked around the campus and spent the day there and I met Gloria Calderon Kellett that day. I met just a bunch of people and I I don't know if I met Linda Cardellini that day. But I but I met her as soon as I got there because she was already a legend at that school. She was

already a legend. Yeah, for sure. Well, she was like working like professionally, working before freaks, before even freaks and Geeks. And so Linda's four years older than me, Um, but she had taken a gap year to work, but she was still like living with her college roommates off, like right off campus, and everybody was in ALD in the theater department. And so before I even met Linda, I knew who Linda was because it was like, oh, well,

Linda Cardalini's working. She was on boy meets world. So she was she was like sort of a legend already by the time I got there. And then really she's why I you know, she's why I did freaks and Geeks, which is like a whole other crazy I'll tell you that in two seconds. So, but but I just spent the day there at l m U and then flew

back and I was like I really liked it. I really liked it, and part of the deal with calerts was that you sign up to be in this conservatory acting program and you're not supposed to audition or work for the four years that you're in that program, and I just felt like I'd been waiting since fourth grade to be an actor. I was like I can't do that, like I need to be able to do it if

I'm gonna do it. And I'm so grateful that I like thought that way and and I'm you know, and my mom, I think, was happy that I was getting that Jesuit Education. I don't for two years anyway. But yeah, so then I got you know, so then I was I was at l m U, and then I was very focused on getting representation, figuring out how to do that. So you were going to school, but you were also in the business to like, yeah, you were trying to find an agent and you were trying to work even

as you started school. Yeah, there were a few of us in the theater department that were kind of like savvy in that way, you know. And I felt like it was already too late. I felt like I had already like at eighteen and I was like I've already missed the book, you know what I mean, like I'm already it's already too I've already missed it. But you know Colin Hanks? Yeah, I was gonna ask. Were you friends with him as well or you guys was my boyfriend,

he was your boyfriend. Yeah, you didn't know that for years. Yeah, we met my first semester, freshman. I don't read US weekly, don't listen, but Brian, it also like so predates like celebrity gossip. Yeah, it does kind of, because also we weren't famous. We were just like two random lmu students who like got on teen shows at the same time. No one cared. There's nothing and we're really good friends now as adults, which is the greatest twist of life

and faith. So that's fantastic. But yeah, we met freshman year, like my first semester, and started going out. We were really like we did noises off together. He was the director, I was Vicky and I had done some like like had tried to get an agent in Arizona, which was you know, anytime you're like in one of those smaller towns and markets, it's not that there's not stuff to be done or work to be done, it's just it's a little it's not comparable to what you do. Well, right,

any most of the most of the interesting stuff. They end up casting out of L A or New York anyway. So you have an agent that you can't get you access to anything. That's that's I mean typically, typically, not always. I had done this like industrial type job for Mattel toy company, playing a live Barbie doll. Oh my God, I want the footage. No, because it was like it's the toy fair and you weren't allowed to film anything, and also before cameras and phones and camera phones. But

I actually wasn't Barbie. I was they made a doll from the TV show and movie clueless. They made a share horrowitz doll. Yes, and so then they dressed me up like that and then they would bring in the toy buyers and I would do a whole fifteen pages of like sales projections and stuff, but in character as share horro wins, and I killed I was like I was I really killed it. And I went to New York twice to do the toy fair for Mattel and Um, there were tons of Broadway actors because it was like

nine to four. The job was like nine to four and you got paid. I mean I worked at California Pizza Kitchen and those two weeks of being a Barbie for Mattel, I think I made four thousand dollars. Like as an seventeen year old, I was like that's nothing to sneeze at. It was a lot of money. But because of that I had become sort of friends with this actress named Lisa Guerrero and then ended up being like a sports like a football commentator. Yeah, okay, I feel like you know who she is. I know who

that is. Yes, I was inside edition now or something. Okay, I don't know. Again, I told you I don't read US weekly, alright, and I literally don't think any of these things would be in US weekly. I think that. I don't think there is a publication that would come to this. This is just for your podcast. Anyway, she was very sweet and she took me out to lunch

and she was like, well, you'll need representation. She was the one that told me what the steps were and then she very sweetly introduced me to her manager at the time, and this woman was like sure, well, let's see, let's try, and from there, you know, I auditioned for an agency and thankfully I had that Calart's audition in my back pocket. Just went in and did my calarts

audition anyway and they've ended up signing me. And it's like at every point when I was you know, I was eighteen and then nineteen when I got freaks and Geeks, but at every point it was very much like I could tell the people around me were like well, let's see, let's okay, sure, let's just see, and the whole time I was like you'll see, oh, you're gonna see. How did you meet the folks on Freaks and Geeks? Was that through your agency? Did they do their job? Oh

my God. Well, what I'm failing to bring up to you is that the pilot season of was like the year after Dawson's Creek, was the hugest hit of all time, and literally every network had seven teen shows that they were trying to make. So the timing for someone my age who could play sixteen, who didn't have been better. I had ninety, something like nine five auditions and callbacks

in the span of three months. Unbelie unbelievable. And also, Brian, this is before email and I had to drive from L M U on the four or five to sunset plaza to pick up my scripts and sides from my agent's office. They would leave them downstairs in a giant box for all of their actors and you would go and you would flip through and find your name and find your package. It was like I was nonstop living

in my car. I lived in my car. And so I had auditioned for Alison Jones and had gotten pretty far but hadn't tested, but had gotten like done a good job for Roswell, which was the show that Colin ended up getting, and she brought me in for freaks and Geeks and I read right for the producers for that. And so I went in and it was like Jake, Paul Judd and Alison obviously, and I read the Lindsay

Audition sides. Kim Kelly wasn't a character. Yeah, then, right before I was about to leave, Paul was like Hey, busy, uh, you know, we have this other part. Would you mind taking a look at this and just coming back in and reading it for us? Uh, it might be interesting. You know when they do that to you, and on audition, I'm sure, and you're like a little bummed because you read for the lead and they're like here's this other part that we don't even know what it is, but

why don't you look at that? And they're like another thing I'm not getting. And all I could think of, because the audition was in the Palisades, was that I was going to have to drive back on the four, oh five to L M U, and I was and it was getting like later and later, and at a certain point I was like, Oh, fuck it, I'm ready. I just want to go, like I need to go, I gotta get out of here, and so it's like essentially it was essentially a very cold read and that

was it. That was it. Amazing. Did wait. Well, you know, normally, like when it's a series regular, you test at the network, right, but they Kim Kelly was just a guest star for the pilot. They didn't, they hadn't made it a series regular part. And my agents were like, we don't want you to do this because you're getting so much attention, like and so much you're getting so close on things that we want you to wait for a series regular role.

We think you could like land some really good series regular role and you don't want to take yourself out of the rest of pilot season because you're working on a show, right. But then I went to Pick Up, I think Colin at the airport and Linda was also there, picking up her roommate actually, and she had just gotten the part and she knew that they had they wanted me for Kim Kelly, and she was like, Dude, can you believe it? I'm I got freaks and GEEKS. I'm gonna do it. You gotta be Kim Kelly, and I

was like, I know, I was just talking. I just it's so exciting, like I just my agents were feeling like, I don't know, and she's like no, no, no, do this show. You gotta do this with me. It'll be so much fun. We'll have so much fun. And I honestly, in that moment I was like yeah, of course I'm sucking doing it. Like why would I not do I already know this girl who's Rad and like I want to be best friends with anyway. Why would I not

do this? And so I called my manager, Lorraine, and I was like I really want to do this, and she's like, I'm gonna Call Judge, I'm gonna find out what the deal is, and then she called me back and she was like, you know, Judd is really insistent that they want to make this character a series regular. If the show gets picked up, I think you should

just do it. I think it's brilliant. And so, because of like Lorraine, my manager at the time, and Linda Cardalini, I was like, I had no idea what I was doing. Who knows what anything is, you know, they're like Judd apataw from sick in the head. I'm like, I don't know what the funk that is like. Had you read the script? Yeah, I did not understand it at all. I'M NOT gonna lie. I'M NOT gonna lie. Totally, Brian, totally. I was like don't get it, I don't get what

the tone of this is. I was so confused by it. And then I remember they cut together. We had a pretty long shoot for the pilot. I mean it's a period piece and it's involved and those were the those were the olden days of Hollywood where they really spent a ton of money and like they were shooting on film, you know. And after we wrapped the pilot that evening, in the cafeteria of the school we were shooting at, they rolled out like a little a v Cart and

they had cut together. The editors had just put together like a tiny little mishmash of the show for all of us to see what we've been working on, which, honestly, also in retrospect, is so special because so yeah, I mean if your show doesn't get picked up, the crew literally never sees the show. I mean, I don't know about you, I've done pilots that I still haven't seen, right, right, I mean I've done shows that I've never seen, but that's a different issue. That is a different issue, I

would say. But anyway, it was so special and I remember watching this thing that they put together and they had the come sale away song, you know, like Crescendo, Ng, and I got full chills and I was like this is what we've been doing. Oh my God, this is real. Like my mind, I'M gonna start crying, but like my little brain was blown like this is what I've wanted to do since I was a baby, and there I am and I don't even look like me and I don't sound like me and it's real. Yeah, that was

that wow. Were you away are at that moment that the show was special or doing something new, or did your little brain not comprehend that at the at the time? I mean that whole experience is so has had so many different incarnations of what it was and what it

is and what it continues to be. So it's funny, you know, like we had such an amazing time while we were doing it and the freedom that Judd and Paul and Leslie Gladder, like all of our directors, they gave us such a gift that we were all way too inexperienced and young to understand at the in the moment, I think. But we all enjoyed it very much. I mean I don't remember, aside from like my personality conflict with Franco, like I don't remember ever having like a

complaint about anything having to do with it. Late nights were Super Fun. Early Mornings were Super Fun. We would hang out, we would go to swingers and get food at midnight. After we wrapped like together, we would go to birds on Franklin where segull convinced me that the scientology building had a tower of terror ride inside of it,

and I believed him for like ten minutes. I really thought it was true, and south was like come on, it's not true and I was like, I don't know, it looks like it has one of those rides in it, you know, like a drum. I was like what, we don't know anyway. Um, so it's really fun, you know. And I think and when the show was over and it became clear like that it was going to be over, over, I wasn't ready for it to be and I wanted

it to continue. I was really, really sad and really disheartened and and and I did feel in a moment already like, but we made something so good. Why is this hat why is this fair? I mean, and again that's the best lesson you can learn as an actor. It's like, actually doesn't matter, Babe. Right, Paul said it was ahead of its time a little bit. I mean in terms of the cringe comedy. I mean, you know, Judd's now made a career out of very similar toned things.

It launched so many careers and and really pioneered a new way of doing television. That is uh, you know, I think a lot of shows, including the office. Oh, a great debt of gratitude too. Um. Yeah, I remember feeling that it was ahead of its time, like I said, like I read it and didn't understand it. You know, I didn't understand tonally what it was supposed to be.

It wasn't until I actually saw it that I was like, Oh shit, this is awesome and I think it's really a testament to how the people in charge treated us with so much respect. And we were kids and maybe at moments didn't deserve it, but they really treated us like experts in our field and real collaborators in making this thing, and it changes everything when you get to

work with people who respect you. Yeah, I've been on both sides of that like line, where I've worked for people who just definitely don't respect me and I'm there to like service what they want to be done or how they want it said. And I have no joke heard actors like that I was working with being referenced as talking props. Yeah, that's a Bummer, you know, that

really takes the fun out of it. But like for me to go from doing really fun creative theater programs and then getting to be a part of a show, a network television show, were these adults in charge. And, by the way, that is the funniest thing to me, which is that I thought that Judd and Leslie were literally fifty years old. Leslie is like three years older

than me. Were like essentially the same age, but she was like they were like married, they had a baby, they were like old people and and then like cut to five years later, we're like hanging out with each other in Hawaii and I'm like wait, what's happening? We're they say, Oh my God, you were like my dad

and mom and no, but isn't that so weird? Like when you're a kid, when you're a teenager, people who are twenty five seem like grown up, and then when you were eight you're like hanging out with fifty year olds and you're like, we're all the same age, just fine, anyway. I just it was just but the fact that they trusted us and took us seriously and took our ideas seriously and never made us feel less than for being actors or teenagers an incredible gift and a thing that

honestly shaped the way that we all have turned out. Like, I think for most of us that was our first experience professionally, like even in the case of like Linda Jason and Franco, who had worked a little bit before that, this was like their biggest thing that they had done, you know what I mean? And I think just having that environment really shifted the way that we approached the rest of our careers and what we wanted for ourselves and like what we were how we were going to

do it. That's awesome. That's so great to hear and makes so much sense that having that nurturing and creative environment early on doesn't make you in a way Um over it. Yeah, I mean, well, I think I look, like I said, that year was where were you were?

You already in L A in shortly after. I did theater for a long time, so I was I didn't get here until two thous so, like there were a lot of people my age that we all started out at the same time, and I do think that what happens after, you know, is a reflection of how you were treated when you first enter this business. It's hard for me when especially young actors deserves so much better

than the treatment that they receive. Even if you don't end up, like pursuing for the rest of your life this thing, I think it really shapes you fundamentally and I think there's just been, there just has been so much mistreatment of kids and teen and young adult performers, you know, but I got lucky, boy, did I get lucky. You did and you know, we got to talk about immediately transitioning off of this show. You have a great experience and and very shortly you get on like the

biggest show of all time for kids, Dawson's Creek. How was that experience? It was different. It's different. It was different and I you know, like again directly after freaks and GEEKS was tough. I didn't work a ton and I was out there like puffing it, you know, and that pilot sea, the next pilot season, was one of those years. I tested and didn't get, I think, like Nine Network TV shows and I was like, well, I guess this ship is over, like and then, and you know,

and then you're looking. I'm looking at my friends from freaks and GEEKS and it's like Franco is, James Dean, seagulls, like the lead of some fucking thing. Linda's Da Da, Dada Da, like it just was like I felt like a failure. I felt like such a failure. And John Kasten, Jake Kasden's younger brother, who was a writer on freaks and Geeks, he went to Dawson's creek and it was that transitional time for a teen show where they're going to college, and so he was like I have the

best idea. I think you need to be on Dawson's Creek, and I was like that's a little bit like when your mom calls you and tells you like I think you should be on seven rents, and I'm like, Oh, you do. Yeah, that's a great idea, mom. Maybe I should be on severance. Okay, you know what I mean. Like it's like your parents like, or like your friends from back home like pick like the biggest show ever and they're like it's so, why aren't you on hacks? I'm like, I don't I actually don't know. I don't

know why I'm not on hacks. I'm sorry to tell you, just not not on hacks. Um. So I was like okay, John Whatever. And sure enough, like a month later or something, I got a call and they're like they want you to be Katie Holmes, whom May I was like, Kasden, you've really fucking done it, and I went and I went to the WB, the former W B, and I tested for it and then I went to Wilmington's, North Carolina. I Love Wilmington's, by the way, I shot something there. Did like it? No, but but I was at a

different point. I it now, I would probably love it. Are you kidding? It was at a different point in my life. I just started dating this guy that I was like really into in L A. I was twenty one. I didn't want to leave. No, I wanted to be with my friends. I was like this sucks, like I didn't know anyone in Wilmington's the cast. Like I got to the show and like they all seemed so over it. Oh did they? Yeah, I was gonna ask. Did you

watch the show? No, that's the other thing. I had never seen it and it probably was difficult to stream it at that point in time. You know it was. You couldn't. I think somebody sent me literal VHS tapes to watch. Did you watch them or no, I didn't. I didn't. And you know what is crazy, Brian, I haven't even watched the ones I'm in. I didn't watch any of it. Really. Here's the thing. Michelle and I became very, very good friends on that show. That's where

we fell in love with each other. But the cast was like on that show they were definitely they had been through the whole roller coaster ride. Of being on the cover of rolling stone and, you know, getting huge, paid, paid days for giant movies and then coming back to

their twenty three episode seasons and being like exhausted. They were exhausted, I think, and I come in like all full of like so fucking happy a bit here let and everybody was like, all right, we're gonna need you to slow it down, a little bit, you know, and then I was like these guys suck, but they didn't. They were just I get it now, you know, I don't know. I have that thing like I wish I had spent less time, sad I wasn't with my boyfriend, you know, like I wish I had enjoyed the experience

more a little bit. But whatever. stylistically, do you consider yourself a comedian? Um, I don't know, I don't I don't know. I don't know if I consider myself anything at this point. Brand okay, all right, I feel like I get the reason I asked is I feel like I get people refer to me as that sometimes. I don't know. You're a man. Is that right at least? So, yeah, I think so. I don't know. I think there is something about that that men get referred funny men. I

mean with all humility. I say funny men, get referred to as a comedian. Is that a compliment? I think so, is it? It makes it like a job, like it's like you're like, you're good, you know, it's like your profession. You're good at it, your comedian interest thing. Okay, all right, you just taught me something. I don't know. Kind of take offense really well, like I'm like, well, but I'm an actor and I can be funny, but I can also be not. So you're going to win an Oscar. Remember?

We told you that? No, I know, I'm waiting. I'm waiting for the call. Listen, we're gonna do it's I'M gonna slow burn you. I think we go. I think how it happens is it's an independent spirit award into an Oscar nom I like it. I'M NOT gonna I'm not gonna argue. It's you. It's your trajectory Um. After Dawson's Creek, you do a bunch of movies, mostly comedies, which was where that beautiful transition that went nowhere. White chicks. Yeah, very funny, maid of honor. He's just not that into

you and many many more, uh, film versus television. I FOR FOR TV. Yeah, me too. Actually. Yeah, I prefer TV because I mean from a from an acting standpoint, in character development, like the payoffs are better and you're able to have bigger ARCS. I mean your chilly moment doesn't land in the movie version. You know, like if you're living with characters for an extended period of time,

I mean hours and hour. Even if a show is only one season, it's still hours and hours and hours that you're spending with these people, you're able to just pull out different sides of the humanity and so I find I don't feel stuck playing types because I really feel like I get to dig into the people. And then in films you are sort of relegated to like

what it is, you know. Yeah, you're like the funny best friend who like says three funny things in every scene and it's like then gives her the idea to do the thing and that's it. You know, like it's just it's not, as an actor, for me, not as fulfilling.

I do love TV. Yeah, it's interesting and I got kind of like bombed when the movie stars realized that TV was where I was at I got a little bit like it was about the same time when I was when I decided and like publicly declared that I quit acting, which was, of course, bullshit, but I just was like, I mean, I can't fucking I'm now I'm up against reese witherspoon, ate Hudson. It was like, honestly, it was like there were a couple shows in like pilots,

where I was like super interested in the pilot. This was right around when Cougar town was ending, and they're like, well, they're going to offer it to Kate Hudson and and I was like, okay, well, that's now we're out. I'm sucking out. I can't do this game because I you know, I can't compete on that level. Yeah, but listen, good news is there's lots of TV to go around. There's a lot of TV to go around. Uh, Cougar town critics choice television award winner. I won an award. I

know you did. I'm just I know, but I'm still shocked by it. How was your experience on Cougar town? Do you have a good time? You loved it. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. It was the perfect job at the perfect moment in my life. I had had my first kid. I really wanted to do something where I was going to be funny but where I wasn't carrying anything, because I had an infant right and I was a new mom and like twenty

nine and felt literally insane. But I needed money and I wanted to work, and that was the thing too. Like I think there was a part of me that fought into that weird narrative that I think people have kind of stopped with, which was, like I had heard a lot from people, like once I became a mother, like it all just fell away. I didn't care about it. Went on my first audition one week after giving birth. I was like immediately wanted what I wanted before. I

was like, where are my jobs? That's so funny. I have never, I have never told this story, but you just brought it up and it's the perfect transition. I now I didn't give birth, and let me say I understand it's not the same. Sleeping on a cot at Cedar Sign I, however, is no joke for a large man. Okay, let's just be very clear about that. I am not

comparing the two experiences. I'm simply saying that is laying on a cot sleep, attempting to sleep on a cot, and I left the hospital and I think I had an animated show recording at nine in the morning that next day. So, yes, I get what you're saying. Doesn't it doesn't stop, it doesn't stop. Oh, Mark, my kid's Dad, mark, left me at the hospital to go have a meeting with Vince Vaughan about some movie that he and abby

were writing for him. Like had no choice. was like you guys, good, you got it, I'M gonna I'll be back in like an hour and a half. Okay, sure, sure, no, no, no,

do you think? Do you thing? Dude? Um. But so cougartown came around just in a perfect moment and it was the perfect show for me and I can't yeah, and I can't say enough nice things about Courtney Cox and also Bill Lawrence and Krista mill and Josh Hopkins and Um Ian Gomez and Dan Bird, I mean like Brian Van Holt, like everyone was incredible and we really had such an amazing time, but especially Courtney Cox is

just the greatest. Exactly what you want as the star of a show, because you know we've all experienced other things, and she doesn't have to be as magnanimous and generous and lovely and hard working and nonstop as she is. She could just go live on her friends money. You know, I mean truly. You know, I thought you were going to say island or something more subtle. You were like, no,

live on her friends money. No, the friends money, but I'm just you know, but she could be any version of anything and but she's literally the great she was the greatest boss, the best sort of mentor in terms of what that kind of leadership should look like, and I learned a lot just by like watching her and how she treated everyone around her with such respect all the time. That's awesome. That's that's so great to hear. Actually, I don't know her. I've met her, but I don't

know her at all. So that's she also, it doesn't she doesn't pull any punches, like if it's you know, if there's an issue, like she is like, we need to discuss this and figure out how to solve it, like she's very much she's a boss. She's a boss, she's a great boss. She's a great boss. That's awesome. I mean, we could talk forever about all of your projects. I do want to get too busy tonight. What was your idea behind that? Wanting to adjust your career path

a bit? and well, it's it was a huge change for you. What what was the impetus for that? Well, a bit it was burnout with the industry, part of the industry, and you know, I had done this pilot

for Tina fey and it was so great. It was like me and Casey Wilson and Bradley Whitford Played Our dad and Luke Deltredici was the writer and was going to show run it, and Tina and Robert Carlack we're producing it, and the show was so funny and I was like this is it, like I this is it, like I'm so happy that I got the thing finally, like this is my thing, like I'm so grateful for this.

And then it didn't get picked up in the most like unceremonious, weird fizzle of like they never it wasn't like one of those things where they were like it's not getting picked up, it's just they just kept holding onto it's so weird and heartbreaking, you know, and I was so heartbroken and I have been so heartbroken Brian for so many years over so many different projects, and I just was like why am I doing this to myself?

This is like torture. And around that time, or a little bit earlier, I had started doing instagram stories and that had become this whole thing, like people were like all of a sudden, taking all this interest in me and there were articles. The New Yorker wanted to write an article about me and you know, there was all of this attention on that. And Eric Gurian, who produced this with Tina fe, called me and asked if I wanted to have lunch when they were like the Emmy's weekend.

After that, pilot didn't get picked up. So a couple of months later and he was like we want to do something with you, like what do you want to do? What kind of show do you want to do? Like we want to figure something out, and I was like, Eric, I'm not doing it. I can't be an actor anymore. It's too much heartbreak. And he's like, well, you're obviously entertaining and you're super watchable. How many People Watch your stories every day? And I was like at the time,

I mean this is fucking crazy. At the time it was like two and fifty thousand people a day. We're watching my fucking stories, which is nuts. Now it's like, I want to say it's like sixty five or something like that. You know so, but like no one was doing them and I just whatever. I got in on it. You pioneered it, pioneered it. I pioneered the way that everybody does it. I know it's so exciting that I did that. Um, thank you, thank you, and I'm sorry, but I was like, I don't know, but I'll let

you know. Like I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what the funk is that going to happen, but I'll let you know. And then I went to my manager at the time's birthday party. That was at the MERV Griffin estate in Palm Springs, and I got stoned and was like sitting out looking up at the stars, like and I turned to mark and I was like I have to have a late night talk show. That's what it is. I have to have a late night talk show, and he was like uh, okay, and I'm

like no, it's like the perfect confluence of things. I love talking. I love having conversations with people about things. I have so many friends. There aren't enough women that have these shows. Like this is just stupid and it's you know. So from that perspective, from a feminist perspective, I was like, let's even the playing field. Since Chelsea left,

like no one has a nightly show. So I called Gurian and I told him that's what I wanted to do and he's like, well, I don't I don't know if Tina and I are going to be I don't know if we're the fit for that. We've never done that. I don't know if that's what we want to do right now. And I was like, okay, we'll just bring it up to her. Let her know. He's like okay. Then I went and took a meeting at my agents at the time and they brought in like the brows

that do the talk show part of the agency. I don't even know what that's called, hosting and hosting probably, and they were very, I don't know, non committal, I would say, like Christian. They were disinterested. They were like like, they were like, I mean, we could try to set you up with like maybe like a season showrunner that does this, and then we could like come up with a concept and then we could go pitch it. I don't I don't know when. I was like you guys

really are not listening to me. I'm going to do a late night talk show because the ghost of Merv Griffin told me when I was stoned that that's what I'm doing. And they were like okay, and no joke. Four days later the phone rang and it was Eric Gurrey and and he's like, well, I've got some news and I was like what and he's like, I think Tina and Dave miner just sold your late night talk show to e over the phone. Amazing and literally, like

that's how it fucking happened like that. Tina had some because her general, you know, her overall deal, is at universal, and she had some call with e and they said, well, we really want to get back into like a late night talk show space and Tina was like, well, have I got the show for you? and that was it, ma'am.

Within I would say like a month and a half, like the deal was done and then within four months we started like developing it and then we were greenlit in August, I think, and then it premiered in October, like almost exactly one year after the merv Griffin thing. Crazy good experience. Oh, I loved doing the show. Yeah,

we had the best time. It was fantastic. We had a real casey stange, and I, who we do our podcast together and she was my showrunner for the show and, you know, we really had a vision for what we wanted it to be and we wanted it to be different and for different a different audience than what other late night shows have been. I didn't want to like parent anyone else's style and I wanted to make it for I literally wanted to make a show for me,

like something I would enjoy watching, you know. And I felt really strongly about doing it multiple nights a week because I think that it was like a little bit of a challenge and a trial by fire and but I think we got the show up and going really so much faster than we would have if we were doing it like once a week, you know. Um, and I was, I'm really proud of it. I really am

proud of it. I love like loved it and I loved our guests and everybody who came on the show would leave and say something incredible like, honestly, this is the best experience I've had on a talk show ever. You know, like it was just Super Fun and we

were really sad. I was really, again, really sad, really heartbroken when it was over, because I thought that by taking control of it and being creatively in control and an executive producer and like I was very involved with every aspect of it, for some reason I thought I would be better prepared for like, yeah, I was not. No. Yeah, well, I'm so happy for you that you had the experience. Yeah, and maybe again. Is that done? I mean, sure, I didn't.

I'm at this point now where I'm like, I'll do it, I don't know, whatever what may, I'll do anything. Who knows? Again, like you said, am I a comedian? Like, I don't know what I am, Dude. I'm just like, I'm here, I'm here. You're well, you're I don't know if you're a comedian or not. Like I said, I don't even I struggle with like those types of labels. But do you do stand up? No, that's the thing to meet comedian means stand up. I agree. Yeah, now you're changing story. Okay, fine,

I am changing my story. I know you are. That's what I just I just called you out on it, busy, God bless it. I uh so enjoy talking to you. You really make me laugh. So, comedian or not, that's that's that's really all I'm looking for. Good luck figuring out what you want to do next. I know it will be incredible and I appreciate so much you're coming to talk to me. I'm so happy too. I love talking to you, I love seeing you. Thank you. Thanks,

Brian Busy. That was incredible. Yeah, I'm still laughing. Thank you for stopping by. To those of you out there listening, it has been a pleasure hanging with you this beautiful Tuesday, or or whatever day it is that you're listening. I'M gonna be back next week, on Tuesday, same time, same place, with another amazing guest, a guest who, by the way, stars in one of my recent favorite television shows. Can you guess what it is? I'll give you a hint. He is a bad, bad man. We'll see you next week.

Off The beat is hosted an executive produced by me, Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris and Emily Carr our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme song bubble and squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton Mumm