It's surreal. But then you know what's so weird about that?
Ryan, It's like I had this moment, it's so incredible, and then I had to go home and like Alden was puking and like my dog shit in the living room. Hi, my name is Angelie Cabral and I am fun and sparkly.
Hello to all of my esteemed listeners. Yes I'm speaking to you. Welcome to another highly sophisticated episode of Off the Beat. I am, as always, your devoted host, Brian Baumgartner. Why am I in such a good mood today? Well, it's the new year, so it's a new me. And also because my guest today is a great personal friend of mine and an absolute hero of my daughter's Angelique Cabral, or as they know her, Queen Amaya from the smash
Disney hit movie Wish. Now, if you are over the age of six, or if you are not a parent who has demanded to play that soundtrack every single time you get in the car, well she might be more familiar to you as Jill from Enlisted, or Colleen from Life in Pieces, Becca from Undone, or any of the other great roles that she's had in her career which goes all the way back to a United Airlines commercial when she was just six years old. I wonder what she made her parents play in the car on the
way to auditions. Well, we're going to find that out. And lots more about growing up on the beautiful coast of California, getting her start on soap operas, and eventually fulfilling every little girl's dream of becoming not just a Disney princess, but a Disney queen. Here she is the queen of my car Stereo Angelique Cabral.
Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeak. No bubble and squeak.
I cook get every mot oh from the ninetyfo.
What's hello?
Hey?
Long time?
Happy New Year? You're still festive?
Look at you in a panic listen.
I wouldn't thank god you texted me this morning because I was like, I'm in it with taking down Christmas. I don't know if you've seen me on my Instagram and whatever, but I'm obsessed with the holidays and from basically November twenty fifth, and my husband, in absolute moment of despair yesterday was like it has to come down, this is enough.
We're done. It's a fire hazard for sure.
Everything's brown and it's just and he's like, and he has self proclaimed but also in real life reality he has OCD okay of cleanliness and so which just gets worse every year. And so he just was like, I can't handle it anymore. I'm going back to work tomorrow.
This is it. So I woke up this morning.
I've just been in a frenzy like cleaning and so this is my last hurrah. This is it, this is this goes away after this conversation. I'm packing up all of my Christmas stuff in my attic and that's it.
That's it until that's that's it till next year.
Yeah.
Yeah, Now do you recycle Christmas sweaters?
I do.
I have roughly, I think something like forty two. Stop it, it's disgusting. No, it's not okay. And I do recycle them and I keep them and I use them year after year.
I have my favorites.
I have some kitchy ones, but I also have some very beautiful ones. Like I have it's all over the map, but I have so many sweaters.
Well, yeah, I do follow you on the Instagram. And here's the thing that I know about you. Well, first off, you're clearly a fantastic mom, and you like to celebrate like holidays big and small.
Correct, right, all all sizes and shapes of holidays truly like everything, I kind of it's kind of how I go through my year, right, Like, okay, we've got coming up now it's Valentine's so I'm already getting I'm gonna get my valentine stuff out pretty pretty quick here, and it's my birthday first and then Valentine's.
But basically I go through the year.
I have a bin for each holiday, and I have Yeah, I have table decor, only one though I don't go too too crazy, and I do really just the kids' rooms and our main like living area, but I have table decor. I love the Dollar Store for like you know, plates and napkins and anything. I love to like serve breakfast with a theme, so I love to do that, or I'll do like a green pancake like for you know,
Saint Patrick's Day. Like I go pretty hard for every holiday, and then when it gets when we are close to October, when we get into the fall, it's just no holds barred. It's just I'm all in from basically October first until January third, Like, that's it.
But your husband is the one with OCD.
Yeah, not me, Obviously, it's over for.
Every holiday solves just just a little, just a little yeah OCD. But no, that's hey.
Well, and they're big bins. They are these huge ones.
I can't even show you how big from home Depot and my husband to his you know, to give him some credit, he he did go to home Depot and buy me matching ones and then I label them so that they at least look the same to him, right, and he doesn't have to deal with like what's inside. But you know, it's a real journey for us over
these past several years. And the bigger my house gets, the more shit I buy, right in my French, but I just I would go so much harder, but he's limited basically to one bin per holiday.
That's where we're that's where we're landing.
All right, Well, all right, call new Year. I mean we're here where we're entering the new the new year. We can restart, the bins can be recycled, and we're we're good. So you were born in Hawaii.
I was born in Hawaii. Was born in Honolulu, Hawaii.
Yeah, and why was this? Was this? Was this a work thing? Was this? Or is this is where your parents were from?
No, so my it's a very romantic story actually, Brian. But my uh my dad ran away from home basically when he was seventeen through the islands. He is a carpenter, okay, and he went to Hawaii to just kind of like live his life. But he was a shipbuilder in Hawaii, okay, and he built boats like from scratch, like with his bare hands. And my mother had gone separately with her fiance at the time, okay, and was attending University of Hawaii. And then she like also on her like has her
part time job was a preschool teacher. My father had a daughter in her class, Okay. So my dad's first daughter, Nicole, was my mother's student, and so she would meet my dad and he's very still as handsome and quite the leathario and kind of wooed her.
But nine, you she was engaged.
To the southern man, right, who I've never met, and so you know, this is just all like lore that I've heard over the years from my parents.
But basically they fell in love. She broke up with her fiance.
They got married and lived on a boat that he had built, and they were together about eleven years before I came along.
Okay, and they were very.
In love and they lived in Hawaii, be they just both loved it, to be honest with you, and I still love it. And as a young child, my parents got divorced. It doesn't end well with that story.
Yeah, my father has.
Sometimes the relationships over Plato doesn't fully stand the test of time.
But yeah, truly didn't.
But it was a very sweet It seems like eleven or twelve years then I was born.
They immediately got divorced. My father took said boat.
I'm going to write a movie about this someday or a show, but like basically took the boat that they lived on with all of my baby things and all of our things with his mistress to Tahiti and it got shipwrecked and he never like the ship was bye bye. We never saw that ship again. And I say ship, it's a boat. It's like a sailboat. It's like a forty two foot sailboat. It's not a ship.
I should use the right. A ship feels like an ocean lighter.
It's just a sailboat and it didn't end well and there was a big storm in Tahiti. So my dad kind of came back to California. My mom and I moved to Carmel to be with her family when I was to like basically I was raised with my grandparents in Carmel.
So Carmel like Monterey Monterey.
Yeah, yeah, so that's what I consider home.
Hawaii is like where I was born, and my mom and dad have a lot of friends there and like their roots, I would say, like their youth. But I didn't grow up in Hawaii. I was just born there and then I loved to vacation there. I took my family there for my fortieth birthday. It was wonderful and like you know, I have fond memories of Hawaii with my mom because she would take me back every year for like a spring break or any kind of vacation, like whenever she could afford it, she would take me
back to Hawaii. It's her happy place and hence my happy place. My dad had never been back until I took him for my fortieth. I made my whole family.
Go with me.
It was very fun, like he was. He's more emotional about it.
I think it brings up some rather dark memories of things for him, because that's when like the marriage ended and he took off to Tahiti on the boat and.
Never came back.
So I think, yeah, yeah, But so I would say I'm bored in Hawaii but raised in Carmel, and then now I'm here.
Now Hawaii is beautiful. To me, there is I don't know if I could do it only because of the weather. To me, there is almost no more beautiful place on the planet than Carmel. Carmel.
I agree. I agree with you.
It's stunning.
It's stunning.
Well, and I'm you know, Carmel is so close to not only want to ray a big sur Yes, it's just the entire coastline in the US.
The coastline is just so beautiful. The one oh one I or the Highway one.
I should say I loved living there, but I thought it was very boring and I couldn't wait to leave. It's not ironic. Now I just hope to make enough money to retire, but to go back. Every day, I'm like looking at my bank account. Can I go home yet? Like what's happening? It's so beautiful but very quiet. And you know, I grew up like rock climbing and big sur like how boring is that?
Right?
And I couldn't wait to just get out of there, so I went as far as I could and I went to Indiana University for college.
Now you started doing some work. I understand your first job was when you.
Were six, I believe so that sounds right?
Uh a United Airlines commercial. Were you like actively pursuing work? I mean it sounds weird because you're six, I know. Was it something you wanted to do?
I think no, I think that what it was is back then, my mom kind of grew up dabbling in the business. My grandmother was also like a dancer and a professional dancer and kind of a round. They lived for a while in my mom's youth in Hollywood, and I think it was around and I was very outgoing. I didn't really love acting or want to do it until third grade, which I think is what nine or ten?
Yeah, and I remember then, but still pretty young.
But I remember there was this a substitute teacher at my school who I was like a music teacher, and she was amazing and we learned all these songs and then she said, I'm having auditions for Oliver at the local college, Hartnell College, if anyone wants to audition, and I asked my mom if I could, and I got in.
And I loved the rehearsals. I loved the community of theater.
And I really grew up in the theater as a child in my youth in Carmel and Monterey, and I did all of the productions outside of school and in school from third grade until high school. And I was like Anne Frank in the Diary of Anne Frank, and I was Miranda in The Tempest. I had like very big roles throughout my youth and that's when I loved it. But my mom always said, if you love it and you want to do these outside productions, you have to keep straight a's. So I was a nerd and I
really like got straight a's. And when I say straight a's, I got a full scholarship to college, a full academic scholarship. I was a well scholar at Indiana University and we didn't have any money, so I knew that I had to kind of do it my way, and I got a full scholarship to college. But like, I always loved it, and it never felt like work, like I loved singing, acting,
dancing from the get when I was six. I don't remember the United commercial at all, but my mom did say I had fun and like she was around in casting and she did some casting in Monterey, So I think she just had like ends with casting people.
And I know that she dabbled in casting in Hawaii too.
Right, you didn't bring this up because I have always loved her. My research says you have a cousin that's Adie mcclerk. Is that? I mean?
I believe this, that's cool?
Like, I know, was she around? Did you talk to her very much? Okay, very much like mc edie?
Who for those of you who are listening, you'll, I would think most most recognized her from Paris Bueller's Day Off. Oh he's a righteous dude with the red curly hair and comedian I grew up knowing.
I called her Aunt Edie. She's not my aunt, she's my cousin.
Okay, she's my mom's cousin, so I believe that makes her my first cousin.
Or is my second cousin?
Yeah, but anyway, I called her Aunt Edie. She and my mom are like sisters. Okay, she has no family, she never married, no kids. So every Christmas, Thanksgiving, my Birthday, everything, she came to Carmel. She drove this I'll never forget this Toyota mini van from LA. She would always drive, so she would come all the time to Carmel. She came to my graduations. She came to London. When I studied in London, she always saw my place. She was
actually a very very big supporter of my career. If you would call up, she always said, go to college. She went to college and grad school. She said, do not graduate from high school and go to LA. Try to be a star. It's going to take work. She's very realistic. She's like, it's going to take work. It's going to be hard. Get your education so you can always do something else. So I double majored. I did exactly what she said. But she was very very much a part of my life. And even when I moved
here in La. She brought me my first help me get my first car. She gave me her old Futon for my first apartment. She never really gave me money. She never really like hooked me up with like any of her contacts. Like she's not like getting me an agent or like getting me a job. But she sure did give me a used futon, you know what I mean. And eighty God bless her. Has had a very long, very wonderful career. Has some money, like she's very frugal.
She doesn't spend it on anything like she notoriously shops at the dollar store, as do I now right and costco right.
So she just.
Would reuse things and give me all of her old things, and I loved it. And then as I you know, she's been a big part of my life around here, and she got sick a couple of years ago. She has Alzheimer's and it took a turn in like twenty sixteen, and she really got taken advantage of by two different men who came into her house and basically demoed it and said they.
Were contractors and were not.
And she met these guys on Facebook, and so we kind of deactivated that and I had to go to court to be her conservator. So now I'm a conservator of her estate and person and it's a full time job. I'm not going to lie to you. It's not fun. It's very difficult. She's unrecognizable, really can't have a conversation or get through a day. We have full time care
for her, twenty four hours at her same house. I'm keeping her in her house because she has the means, and it keeps her happy, to be honest, and it keeps her feeling I think a sense even though she doesn't have her memory is gone, but it keeps her stable. And I've heard that if you remove people at her kind of escalated stage of her illness that it can she can deteriorate, like very rapidly. So I'd rather keep
her and her health is. She's as strong as a horse, she's so healthy, she's doing great, but she just has no memory and can't really operate well.
I'm sorry to hear that it sounds like you are well, you're doing right by.
Her, and that I'm doing my best for sure, and there's really no one. There's no one else to really care for her. We have some cousins in Seattle, but they aren't here or close enough to you know, see her regularly. So I took it upon myself because I was like, I'm not going to let some random State of California conservator take over her state.
That makes no sense. So I'm happy to do it. But she's my cousin. That's so weird. That's so weird. I know, well, but Brian, I grew up watching her.
I would come to LA and watch her on like Small Wonder of course, And yeah, I went to live tapings of like what was it Hogan's Family Get It was so fun and so I kind of I guess in a way, comedy has been around me my whole life, like and so multi caam single kam.
Comedy is like where I'm my happy place.
Yeah, so I was going to ask you about that. You went, you followed her advice. I'm going to get back around to that. But you went to Indiana University for their musical theater program. Yes, did you see yourself? You know Edie was talking to you about not going to LA and being a star. Where where was your brain? Like, was your brain in the theater? Were you going to be a theater actor? Or oh?
Yeah, my brain was I'm a Broadway star, right, My brain was I'm leaving California.
To go to Indiana School of Music.
They had it at that point, it was called the IMP It's an individualized major for musical theater. Because I wasn't a music major. I was a musical theater major, and I got incredible training. I felt super confident and amazing, and I got leads in all the shows, and I was like Broadway.
Here I come.
I was like, I'm ready, Like this was my dream, my passion. It's all I did my entire life. It's still my dream and passion. Like I love live theater so much. But what happened was I graduated from Indiana with this dream and a bunch of art. My fellow IU w Hoosiers. We all moved there, and then nine to eleven happened. Literally within days of me moving there
and the theater everything shut down. I had a day job as a as a preschool teacher in the morning so that I could audition, similar to my mom, but I had I got this job at this Montassori preschool. I knew the owner and she gave I had to
take all these courses so that I could teach. It was on the Upper East Side and it was for very wealthy families in New York, and I ended up kind of pivoting because of nine to eleven and everything kind of shut down for like six months, and then it turned into like a year everything was fucked up and wild, and I didn't know what was going on. And I started nannying for a lot of these families like to make ends meet, and she was like a
side hustle, continuing to audition for Broadway. But I'm going to tell you something that I realized very quickly. There's a lot of competition in New York. And I am a strong mover, but I'm certainly not a dancer. And I have a great voice. But at that time, I don't think I could compete on the level that I needed to. And I did some. I did some regional things, and I did some like workshops they call them play rates and stuff like that. Yeah, but I never hit it big.
I never like made my Broadway debut. I'm still waiting to make my Broadway debut, right, But what I.
Did do so than you think now? Well, yeah, well we'll get to that.
Yeah, go ahead, can't wait to be honest in two years and then we'll talk. But I sure did make it big in foot modeling. I sure did make it big in birthday parties. I did some commercials I did. I did foot modeling for years. I have a tiny foot, and my feet fit in sample sizes of shoes. Like basically with shoes they make one pair.
This is not like an only fans thing. This is like a no, this is like a legit This is like a.
Legit thing, like where you're a foot model and you stand in a showroom.
Like a hand model or elbow.
Yeah, I was like really stressed about it.
I was always like moisturizing my feet and like making sure I didn't get onions or blisters. Those are the days of my youth. But yeah, I did like weird. I did weird side hustles, and I really made my way through. I was in New York for about ten years, and I really made my way through it. But never never the Broadway dreams that I had wanted or moved there with. But then I met my husband and he had a business that brought us to Los Angeles.
Wait a second, did your husband have a child from a previous relationship that was in your preschool class? Because if so, then we've got a sacurious conversation to have here.
Oh could you imagine? No, he did not.
He had a business that was like his child. But no, I did not have another child.
Okay, all right, you didn't meet him in the okay, in the preschool. Okay.
We were very in love though, and I was like, I'll never move to La.
I ate La.
I don't like TV TVs for the birds, TV's. I was like, TVs for losers. We can't make it on Broadway, That's what I'd say.
Yeah, there was a time, there was a time people saw Yeah.
People did think that.
So we moved to La and I pretty quickly. This was like two thousand and nine, twenty ten. I I got this manager who took a chance on me, and like really thought I had I mean, listen, Brian, I'm sure you can attest to this. Like early on in everyone's career, I feel there is a time where you just it's like ignorance is bliss.
This is how I felt. Anyway.
I came here from ten years in New York thinking I was the best. I'm very confident, like too confident. I just thought I was the beasnys like you're lucky to meet me, like here, I am. I must so I would call myself a soap actress. I did some stints on soaps.
You did quite a few more than what I knew about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I keep that buried.
But yeah, I did a lot of soaps, did a lot of commercials, and I certainly had confidence that, like what here, I am right? And I started these acting classes pretty quickly. I got recommended to Leslie Kahn, who has changed my life. She's a dear friend to this day. And I kind of learned how to audition, and I learned what people I feel like want in the room.
Back then, everything was in the room right, and so I made fans pretty quickly because I could take notes, I think from years of being in theater and also just kind of living my life in New York. I was like, I'm a hard worker. Like I love to work,
I love to take a note. I love to like grind it out, and I don't think a lot of people do even now, especially now, I still think that's one of the things that sets me apart, is like when it comes to like being in the room or on set or whatever, there's a zero I'll never have an ego about it. I'm just like, tell me what you want me to do. Let's go, let's go, let's
move on, let's work it out. I always feel like there's a sense of community like theater, like I just love that feeling of being on set and like working out together. Anyway, I had pretty quick luck, I will say, like, like, I think that all those years in New York kind of primed me for like this, just go here in La somehow.
I mean, much like you and your New York friends looking down back in the day on television. You know, I think there's still a stigma which you sort of alluded to, about soap operas, and I know that I'm not soap opera material, but I always thought that that would have been a good experience to have, particularly particularly what the.
Hell was there?
Particularly coming from theater, because I feel like that the experience of soap operas where you're handed pages and it's go, and you get one shot at it and you're done, You know that that would be kind of a fun transition and having sort of high stress time work sort of as an introduction to film and television. Do you feel like, in all seriousness, did did that give you something? Do you think?
Yeah?
And also confidence on set in front of a camera and a crew, right.
I think when I look back on those days at the soaps, which I did almost all of them in New York, at various times that I almost feel like was my grad school. To be fully honest with you, like, I think that that's what made the transition to television actually easy for me, because I kind I had all that those hours and the idea of having to do those turn those pages so quickly and you only really.
Get one or two takes.
Yeah, that's why I think to this day, I'm so quick with words, and I'm so quick on a set, and I love the stress of like, Okay, let's go, we only have one like this, like anything with time, and like, yes, I also love multiicam for the same reason.
It feels very much like a performance, like a play.
And I also just believe that everything you do, like you said, like it's a wealth of like tools, and I have this big toolbox around me or tool belt whatever, and I'm pulling out these tools. And I've collected so much knowledge and so much ability in my lifetime thus far that I can't wait to see, like what the next twenty years brings, because I feel very much, I feel very capable at all times, and I always say
to myself, I've never let myself down. It's true, Like no matter what, no matter what, the situation is I always kind of rise to the occasion. And I don't think I knew that then when I first moved here.
But I look back and like, oh, it's the soaps. It's the soaps and all those I took a bunch of soap classes. There's a teacher in New York called Bob kraft Hour.
I was always taking classes, trying to like perfect my craft so that I could I never wanted my acting to be the problem. If anything, it's the wardrobe or the this, or the lights or whatever. But I don't want it to ever be me.
I still feel like that, right.
Yeah, it was my grad school, that's for sure.
Yeah, that's so interesting. You hit the ground running here, as you mentioned, lots of commercials, also guest spots in big show. No, but like big shows at the Melrose Place two and a half man, I mean a variety, as you say, a variety of sort of disciplines and genres. I mean, I don't think there's a procedural that you haven't done.
I think I've done at least one of every procedural, but.
That you know, the It was interesting because I got here I think late two thousand and nine and I started these classes and I saw around me people working, right, I am very much like I need to see it and then I can replicate it.
Okay.
So I remember this girl in my class booked some guest star and I was like, I texted Karen's like, I can do this. I need to book a guest star, and like two weeks later I got this. The very first real job was the Melrose Place, okay, and I was.
Like, Okay, that's eazy. Okay, I did that.
That's easy.
And then there's this I'm or you know her, Susan Bash. She's this amazing casting director. I went in for Happy Endings and this was a big show when I first moved.
Here was casting.
I never really auditioned before, like for a comedy, okay, And I go into Happy Endings and David cast who's a dear friend of mine now like I guess, and the Tanne bombs I think it was their show, like loved me and thought I was hysterical. The part was already I believe casted by. I think it was Casey Wilson, but I didn't know that. And I fucking like walked in that room like this is my part, right, and they gave me some notes and I ended up going
to this. I ended up taking more classes, but basically they had me do the table read because Alicia Cuthbert couldn't do the table read and she was like the lead of that show. So I, with zero credits beside soaps, did this huge table read for network and studio for the pilot of Happy Endings, and then I end up getting it yes, and then I ended up getting a
part in the pilot. I got a little co star, and then the next season, David gave me another role, completely different role, playing Damon's Damon Wayan's like work life or something, so like in the say it's like notorious that in the same show, I'm two different characters, which
never happens, but I'm two different guest stars. And that's just an example I think of, Like if I had to sum up my career, that's what I would say, is like I do well, people like me, they put me here, and that leads to the next thing, which I guess is just la in general, that's just Hollywood, right, But like if you make fans and do good work, people are going to remember you, and it leads to ABCD and even now, like I work with people and
then they'll put me. I mean, justin Adler, I worked with him on Life and Pieces for years and then I was in Maggie.
Like I this is just.
Kind of how I think, at least for me, my kind of career has unfolded. Like I get to work with the same people and I love that. It's the biggest compliment ever, ever, ever as an actor, the people.
And I'm sure you've had that before.
I don't know, Yeah, no, for sure. And it's you know, it's it's all the things that we're talking about, right, Like one, you're good, you're hard working. You don't ever want there to be a take where it's about you, like Okay, camera screwed up or lighting is weird, or you're wearing the wrong color pants or whatever. But you're also positive and nice and nice at the end of the day. That's a huge part of it as well. Just to be wanted to be worked.
With, that's correct. Just to be wanted to be on set with.
But I always feel like, like that's why I feel like I miss about going in rooms and starting to do this again now. But like I always feel like I win the part in the room, doesn't matter what how the words come out. But it's like, if you want to hang out with me for twelve hours a day on set, I'm your girl, do.
You know what I mean?
Like, if you want this to be an easy, lovely process, I'm your girl. And then you could make me whatever you want. You can give me notes all day and I'll do whatever you want. But also half of it is just being Most of it is just being on set. Do you want to hang out together.
Right right tomorrow? You want to see me again?
Right?
Or do you want to see me every day for seven years right exactly? Because I mean we both have worked with people that is not the case, and you're just like, oh, this is a nightmare and you should never work again, right, Like you're kind of like, how do you work like that? I'm obviously not going to name names, but like there are people that there are people like this out there, and you're just like, I'll neext to you later, but you know So that's I think that's my kind of overall take on how my
early days in LA went. It's like it was it was kind of wild and mad, and then all of a sudden, I like I saw my friend testing and I was like, oh, I can test.
What's that? What does that mean?
Oh?
Oh, I'm mean okay, I can do that.
And then I tested for the show and then I got the show, and then I was like, oh, that was easy.
And then I kind of had to stopped working.
Well, I believe the show that you're talking about is enlisted. Correct, that was well.
That wasn't my first.
My first pilot that I booked to series was a show called Devious Maids.
Actually, yes.
But the tricky thing about that because Mark Cherry. Again Mark Cherry had seen me in a show. We were hanging out backstage. I was making him laugh. We got got got got guy YACKI d yak and he said, I think I have a show for you. This pilot sees I said that sounds great. Yeah, yeah, Mark Cherry, sounds great your next show after Desperate Housetimes. Absolutely I booked the pilot. It was very That was a that was a real talk about talk about having to have
your wits about you and be able to pivot. Brian, that was like crazy. I had to test. I had to go back to test. It was ten o'clock at night and to go back to Warner Brothers. I lived in Santa Monica at the time, and he gave me cold sides to read for this other part for this test, and I thought, what the fuck and I did it and then I got it. But it was one of those things I was like, Thank God, I was good with words and I didn't freak out giving getting twelve
pages of sides at ten o'clock at night. Anyway, that show didn't go to series on eighty see, it went to series on Lifetime, and Lifetime changed the cast all around, like Lifetime bought it for ABC. So like that was my actual first pilot, but I didn't go with the show. Enlisted was my I immediately booked and listed after that.
And something else important happened during that time. You met me, I met you.
Now, let's that's the real that's a real game changer. That's just a moment in my life.
Let's unpack this for just a second. Do you remember the night that we met?
Was I working? Was I working?
Yeah, you know, it's all very foggy to me as well. But was it at a party you close? Was it a place called Pearls on sun Sunset?
It was sunset and like doheany with Jeff? Wasn't it with Jeff?
No, there is maybe the biggest A All I can say is maybe the biggest A List star are in the world. His mom was there.
Is this real?
This is this is real?
This is the this is I like Rat Pitt's mom, like Janferish who's.
Close, okay close and Jess Zor Yeah.
I'm still friends with her. We were hanging. I was, yes, for sure. I remember this night we were there.
And you were working with Matt soon and that's why you came up to me because Matt Soone was directing Enlisted.
He was directing an episode. Yeah, and I came right and I came up.
I'm very good at that, like if I put things together again, I'm a connector so I like went.
I remember going right.
Up to me, like, Hi, I'm on just like again. I was like, I'm on a show, thinking that was like a big deal. But we like became quick friends, like we were like it was so fun.
Yes, and Enlisted, you played Army staff sergeant Jill. I don't remember this or did you have. I know it's a comedy, so they weren't putting you through a boot camp, but did they have, like, I don't know.
What did go to boot camp?
Yeah? Yeah, oh you did.
Oh yeah, there's a whole thing. I'll send you a link. There's a whole like documentary they made of it. But they sent me, Jeff Stultz, Parker Young, Keith David, and Chris Lowell to boot camp for a weekend in Texas. Where was it like one of these? It wasn't Fort Hood, but it was similar. I'll remember, Okay, it was the worst. It was the worst two days of our lives.
It was no joke. They like took our phones and they it was real boot camp.
Like I cried, like it was horrible omeric. Yeah, I slept. There was like cockroaches in my room. I was the only girl. We had to like memorize the the oath and how to Oh my god, it was it was so hot. Parker threw up. It was I mean, listen, the boys loved it. The boys were like, this is amazing. Actually, I take that back. Chris Lowell. Chris Lowell hated it. Chris Lowell was like, you know, because he'd been around Baronic Kamar's private practice, he was like, this is fucked up.
I'm calling Disney. This is fuck. This is like he like used to do it, like he was so mad.
And then Jeff and Parker like rose and they like loved it. And then I was like somewhere in between, like I was like, I want to be a legit soldier. I want to learn how to do this. I want to climb the rope, I want to do the obstacle course. I want to get my ass beat. But then there was like cockroaches and I couldn't sleep and I'm legally blind and they like couldn't find my contacts and it was like.
Awful, and that part then it then it took a turn. But I remember being that, yeah, they wanted it to be.
Like veryng Yeah, and when I look back on that, they would, by the way, for I never happened today, Like that would never happen in twenty twenty four. Never, this was twenty thirteen, and they were like, yes, it wouldn't soldiers.
You or wouldn't like it.
I just don't think any show would be allowed to do.
That, right, That's that's what I'm thinking. They just set you.
Yeah, it reminds me coach, like it was gnarly, Like I don't even think that day knew what was happening. Like I remember Mike Royce and Kevin Biehle like being like texting us like when we got back, like how was it? Like, I don't even think they realized the extent or how legit it was going to be. And they were like apologetic. They were profusely apologizing, like I'm so sorry that you went through this, Like they did not know how bad it was going to be.
I just this is totally tangential, But I just watched this documentary Hell Camp. Have you heard about this?
No?
No, this is about this thing that happened in the eighties and nineties where if you had a bad kid they would get kidnapped in the middle of the night and brought to like a camp for bad kids and they had to like walk across the Utah Desert. I mean I remember hearing about this, like, oh, so and so the bad kid got sent to whatever, right. I just watched this documentary and I could just imagine you guys ending up with just a I don't know. Staffs are like what like a drill master.
Oh yeah, our drill sergeant was so we landed at like ten o'clock or something. That's how they that's you're not exaggerating, like that is not far from the truth, and like I'll never forget when we got to this place, which I need, I will find.
Out for you.
Okay.
We it was late and like we got to the the barracks and that it was black kitch black, and we were on like a football field and they took all of our ship, like our phones and our all our ship put it in a garbage bag and said you'll get this back at the end and they made us run like five miles in the middle of the night before we could even go to bed.
And Chris Lowell was just like nope.
He's like I'm not this is not right, Like he's like I need to speak to someone immediately, like he was the only and then.
Chris park were like Marker and Joff were like yeah, we're on, yes, sir, yes, sir.
Like whatever, like they were so in and I was like I don't, I don't know, okay, I guess like I didn't.
Really know what you did, but we just did it.
And then we were so tired and then they woke us up through the night. There was two nights that we spent there. They like give you those scary like like they bang on your door and like make you wake up and like go take a cold shower, they like torture you, like that's real and put to the night.
This is what.
Yeah, very real, very chance. You look at our show.
We never we got praised for going to boot camp and like all of the the veterans and the soldiers, like it was a very popular show, right with soldiers, and they like loved how legit it was, and like even our uniforms and how everything we had. We had several people on set advising us. We had all sorts of to make it very real, like they want even though it was a comedy, they wanted it to be very real. Yeah, it was one of the best shows in my life. I loved it so much.
I love to hear that. I mean, what an incredible experience. And again yeah, probably you're right, like that what you're describing.
Yeah, never happened today. Never, It would have never, they would never.
No, we could have stued seventeen times, like for sure, for sure, that would not happen for sure, or at least or at least someone from HR would have gone with us.
Okay, there would have been somebody there, somebody. Yeah, I mean we had.
No one in sight, no one insight. They flew us like Southwest coach, like garbage. It was awful, not a stipend to be seen.
Oh my god, I love Yeah, you're what do you call it? Your your canteen? Like you had no Yeah, you couldn't get a Snickers bar or whatever. It was just empty. Oh gosh, Well that's when we met.
That's when we met.
And then that show unfortunately.
Uh one hit wonder Man one season wonder that was it. Yeah, sadly it's been ten years now, it'll be eleven this year, but it was a ten years since that show, and we still have text chains all of us with Kevin and Mike, and all of us were like such close friends. Oh yeah, it was a really incredible bonding. I think honestly bonded us because we were so tortured. To be
honest with you, it's just a beloved show. Like we talk about trying to do like a reboot or like a version of that, or I keep trying to ask Jeff if he'll do like a podcast with me about it, but.
He's very hard to tie down. That just stults.
He's very busy being a bro so but yeah, it was a great experience, and then it kind of led me to my next things and the next thing.
So it was kind of just what I would say a highlight of my career for sure.
Life and pieces where we actually got to work together.
Yes, that was so fun.
I'll never forget. We got to work together at an airport. What was that the Vanny's Airport van Eysed Airport.
Yes, what was the experience like of getting cast as Colleen?
I couldn't believe it. I was pinching myself. I still can't. I often can't believe when I get cast in something like just the people around me on that show, Diane Weize, Jim Brolan, Colin who's one of my best friends now in his whole family, Betsy Tommy, it was a dream. It was just the best five years of my life. And I loved everyone on that show. And the way that we got to storytell the four short stories. It just lent itself to such beautiful storytelling, always with heart,
always kindness. I tend to always get I gravitate towards shows like that that have like a sweetness or kind of like a lesson something that makes you a little bit cry, Like I that's how I am all the time. Like I'm always a little teary, always a little emotional. I feel things very deeply. I really relish in things
and soak things up. And that show taught me. Also, you know, that was my first show that had You've had the great fortune to have this, but like that was my first show that had several seasons, right, So like I got to learn how to kind of carry over this character from season to season, seemed to see. I watched her developed, I watched her grow, and she was very different by the end of that series than the Calleen in the in the pilot. And I became a mother on that show. I was pregnant. I was
pregnant with Addie. Yeah, I got very large. I had a lot of Domino's pizza. Anyone who watched my series back then, Dominoes gave me a very nice gift during my pregnancy, which was a little embarrassing.
That's what a what a repeat customer I was. I ate a lot of Dominoes. Yeah, I mean it's it's one of those situations.
Like you know that you just your life has forever changed on a show like that, and it kind of solidified myself as like this actress who like can definitely hold her own.
With big names, and it's changed my career for sure.
Well, we have to talk about I mean, we have to talk. You've been working NonStop Maggie on Hulu also undone, By the way, I do have to ask you about about that. For those of you guys who have not seen, you absolutely should see undone. It's rotoscoped, which I've found out that's what it's called. Now. Was the process they filmed you like you were shooting a show, a show, Yeah it's not, and then they trace over you. Yeah,
I mean, yeah it is. Was that was that fun to see the final because you literally don't see it until correct two.
It's like almost a year and a half after we shoot it that we see the final project undone.
We did two seasons of that beautiful show.
It's to date the work I'm most proud of, hands down, the depth of my character, her journey, the art, the artistic integrity of that show, the mess. It deals with mental health, it deals with time travel, it deals with at needs people like It's just an incredible show that touches in so many different worlds. Pisco is an incredible artist, and Kate Purdy and Bob Rafael Wakesburg who created the show, who also did It's that funny one with a donkey on I'm talking about what did they do.
That show on Netflix forever?
Oh, that's funny.
BoJack?
Thank you?
So they did BoJack Horseman. It's a dark comedy. This show is unlike anything I will ever do again or I have ever done. You shoot it almost like in a black box theater, and you shoot it with these marks on the ground, and they shoot you in the same scene hundreds of times from different angles, and you don't understand what's happening.
You never will.
I still don't understand quite what rotoscoping is, to be totally honest, I just know that they shoot us. We don't wear makeup. It's like very bare bones. It's again, it's as if you're in college doing a black box production. They cut it together the way they want it to be seen, and then the artists in I believe Austin Okay,
trace us. Then they send it to Amsterdam where they paint with oil paints over all of it so it looks like a moving masterpiece, right, it really looks like it looks like a moving piece of art.
Are you wearing costumes?
You're wearing like I had one costume the entire series.
It's like one dress, okay, but you're but you wear it and then they paint it and then they change your makeup a little bit, and like, yes, I would say, like there's a couple of scenes where I'm wearing like I'm going backpacking and hiking.
I did you put on pants?
You wear the costumes, but you don't worry about touches, you don't worry about your makeup. They can kind of paint over anything. It's really kind of hard to explain. But you don't understand why they're shooting you in so many weird ways until you see the time travel and you see it in its entirety. During the series, you never see like anything. It kind of goes into this abyss and it's so beautiful. But you also just have to kind of trust them, right, and it's so guttural,
and these scenes are really emotional. A lot of these scenes it's not stuff that I'm used to doing, right, And there's no like let's hurry up and go No, no, No, it's like you do all day, like two pages. It's like the opposite, so it's kind of indulgent. And I loved it so much and working that closely with Bob Odenkirk who played my father, Rosa Salazar who played my sister, Constance Marie who played my mom, And then we had
some great guest stars too. John Corbett came in for a while on a ortise I'm forgetting triple Horn, Genie triple Horn. It was just wonderful, just an incredible cast, and everyone is like, what are we doing? And I don't ask, just do it. Just look here and just make sure you don't walk past here because if you walk past here, there's an entire wall down a hole, so you can't move here. You've got to just move here. Like it's all very like they see it. The artists
and Hisco who's directing us. We did the second season during COVID and he was in Amsterdam directing us.
No one was in the room with us ever.
It was just me and the two me and whoever I was in the scene with, and the three camera guys. That was it, so it was bare bones. There was like five of us on set all day during COVID. Everyone was directing us from remotely. They were remotely directing us.
Are you going to have a third season?
No, Apparently the show's done. I think the strike ruined. That the strike ruined, and all the executives are gone. It's one of those things where everyone changes and now no one cares about the show, right, so your executives go away, then soon does your show? Sadly, but watch it everyone, it's a beautiful show. It's still on Amazon.
It's beautiful and done on Amazon. Now. You told me while you were sick, you do vision boards. You attempt to manifest. You've talked a little bit about that. Today it's the new year. It's a time for wishes.
I make a lot of wishes. I've made wishes my whole.
Life for new wishes. How was that transition?
Betul loved it.
I called you because my kids were making me crazy blaring music from Wish in the car, and of course because it came out during the strike, I didn't get to see all of the fancy press and parties, and I just kept seeing your name show up there singing the songs Queen Amaya in Wish, Congratulations and Welcome to the Disney Universe. Do your kids love it? Are they bored with it? Because it's just mom, No, they love it.
I think maybe we've seen it, I think seventeen times, so I think now they're a little bored of it maybe, But I did say, you know, when it first came out over the holiday weekend of it was Thanksgiving weekend, we saw it every day. Okay, one time we saw it twice a day. We saw because everyone wanted to see it with me, right and my kids wanted to see it with their friends, and everyone wanted to see it together. So we went almost every day for a solid ten days, I would say, at least, and then
several times since then, like scattered throughout the holiday. My kids cannot get over it. We listen to it much like your children, Yes, on repeat on Spotify every single day, every single song. They know every word. Addie Plate, she wants me to play King Magnifico and Queen and Maia. So it's like our favorite game. Right now, I reenact every moment and then she likes to switch between King Magnifico and Asha.
Okay, so she is.
Very aware all that. My little boy, who's four he's he like knows it's me. And every time I come on, mommy, that's you. Mommy, like in the middle of the theater, very loud right and at Target when we see the.
Merch, they're real into the merch and there, Mommy, that's you. I don't you know. I think it's the most.
Magic time to have a Disney movie in the theaters for the holidays. It couldn't be any better. Like, I can't even get over it. And my kids are at the perfect age. I think if I think if Addie she's six, I think if she was a little older, she wouldn't care as much, right, But she is absolutely smitten with it and she loves it.
She thinks it's so pretty. She loves and listen, it's about wishes.
It's like my life, Like it's literally like I feel like I weirdly manifested this movie, like I make wishes. I've grown up making wishes on stars every day eleven eleven.
I'm praying. I'm constantly talking to the universe.
I constantly am looking into the stars, to the sky, asking for guidance, asking for signs bring me here.
I know I can handle this.
Like constantly talking to the universe, and I feel like this is just another example of that.
Wow, I can't tell you beautiful, I mean it is. I don't know. I mean I guess this. Maybe I've bought into the promos and stuff now, but it really is like the quintessential Disney message, right, like, yeah, the whole full circle from when you wish upon a star to like this being the like manifestation of said said, which ye.
Yeah, I mean it's you know, it's their one hundred years of animation. Okay, So Disney just celebrated one hundred years of animation. So the movie has a lot of nods to old Disney. You'll see some sleeping Beauty, You'll see snow White, you'll see Bambi, a lot of the sleeping uting bad guy Magnifico with the green tendrills like all that. It's also a little bit about the origin story of the wishing stars. So then at the end she's like Cinderella the Fairy Godmother. So you're absolutely right.
It feels kind of full circle, and I think that for Disney's one hundred years of animation, there couldn't be a better message or story.
I also like it because it's a love story.
This is a story about a young heroine who believes in herself and fights for herself. It's her and her forging the story. Similar to Mowana right, she's like out on her own, fighting for herself. And I think it's a story of resilience and perseverance, and I think it's
a great message for young children, especially young girls. And I love that the Queen ends up spoiler alert, being a good queen, Like she flips sides and she finds love for her country and her people and what's right for them and herself instead of the loyalty to her man. And I think that's a huge pivot and I love
that message for women. And I also love that at the end they say long live the Queen and the king is trapped in his mirror, but he belongs right Like I don't know if I'm allowed to say all that, but I just love it. I think it's a great it's very timely. I think I just think it's resonating with all different audiences. Disney adults, Disney Fine addicts are loving it, and kids love it and think it's beautiful. And the music by Julian Michaels Phiels. It's very fresh
and cool and hip and catchy. Like I mean, I listened to it every day because it makes me feel good and also I want to get those residual checks. Thank you, keep playing it on repeat.
He played it on repeat.
Yeah, the merch deal will be disappointing for you.
I'm very sorry.
Yes, i've heard tell you because you've done you've done voiceovers.
Yeah, and that was going to ask you about that. So what well? First off, because you sing and sing so well, was this something that the people involved were aware of. Did you audition your.
I did audition and I had to sing. Yes, I had to sing. It was like a prerequisite for the part. And I it's a good lesson for me, honestly, Brian, because I don't consider myself a singer anymore.
This was twenty years ago.
I was singing in college and I haven't really sung, and I was nervous and I was scared and I didn't want to do it. And I remember I was going to do press for undone when this appointment came in.
I was going to south By Southwest and I had.
No time, and I picked myself up by my bootstraps and I was like, you are a singer, you can do this, you can sing a cappella for days. And I knocked it out of the park. I was very proud of my tape and it led me to a callback. And then they changed the character. At first, she was actually an evil queen my first round of sides, and then they changed that she was going to be a grounded, loving, maternal queen. And I took the note and I did that. But yeah, they knew I sang. I was scared.
I did it. And then when it came time to recording the music. When we were doing this, it's a you know, it's a year and a half.
People don't realize this, but it's about a year and a half from start to finish, almost two years now of doing the project, right, So I knew the singing was coming, I didn't know when. And I kept being like, am I singing? Like what's happening? Like, oh my god, am I going to get caught. I had heard there
were songs, but I didn't know. And then Julia Michael's like sends you this demo and you have to like learn it, and then you go into the recording studios and you have I had lessons, and I had like a rehearsal period and it was so thrilling, and it just reminds me kind of like riding a bike, like
if you have it in you, it's always there. And I just think that's a great lesson to remember, especially as a mom and someone who's like constantly putting other people first, like to remember that, like it's still in you just because you're not doing it every day.
And I proved that to myself.
And now I'm excited to sing more and I can't wait to hopefully sing more in other animated movies or whatever. But I feel confident about that. And then when I had kind of forgotten what the songs we even like kind of were, and then you see the whole movie Combine, You're like, I cannot get over that this is real. I could not believe it. And we couldn't even do press because of the strike. Everything was against this movie.
It felt like, right like the day that their La premiere was happening in Hollywood Boulevard on Hollywood Bulevard, they shut down Hollywood Bivard. November eighth was the day we rad or we had come to an agreement, but we still could not attend.
The actors could not attend, so I went by myself.
It was the same It took pictures.
It was yeah, it was the same day.
Like I was like in plain clothes, like just like looking like weeping, just like looking at the beautiful premiere and we couldn't go.
But that's, you know, kind of a great story.
Now at the on the other end of it, I'm like, wow, that's amazing, Like I it was so beautiful. The premier was so and I've heard that, like the Disney premiere is the most amazing thing for your kids and everyone gets to go. It was at the l Capy ten and I we didn't get to go. But they've had other events since then that we could attend, like now
that we're done with the strike obviously. But that was November eighth, and at five thirty two pm or whatever, they were like SAgs reached an agreement and so I like ran down to the thing hoping that they would, like I don't know, I called my team like can we please go?
They were like no, and that would be a bad look. You shouldn't go. And I was like okay, so we couldn't go. Anyway. It was a it was ironic, just like of all days, right.
Wow, yeah, guess what. But it was a wish, it.
Was a that's right, I mean wishes that we would. I just wanted to be able to promote it at least something. So we've been able to do some promotions.
Well that is really cool. I feel like everyone who's an actor, they really would prefer to be either an athlete or a rock star a singer. Did you feel like it like when you went into the recording studio and stuff like did you did you have that like or was it just like a boring old voiceover?
No? No, I was like, am I a rock star?
Yeah? Exactly, it's true calling right.
And by the end, because Benjamin and Benjamin Rice, who's the co writer of the music, and he like produced it so he's like the one that mixed it all. So Benjamin works very closely with Julia. They were there together directing me in that moment for that session, and I literally was like I can do anything. I was like, this is forget acting, forget comedy. I'm a singer. And I felt so confident, like I was emotional, I was crying. It's a very beautiful score, beautiful music. And it was surreal.
It's surreal. But then you know what's so weird about that? Ryan, It's like I had this moment, it was so incredible, and then I had to go home and like Alden was puking and like my dog shit in the living room. It's just like, you know, working as as you're a parent. It's like real life, Like no one cared at all.
I came holme.
I was like, guys, I just had the best day of my life. And everyone's like, no, we have my chicken nuggets fell off the ground.
Yeah, they don't care.
They don't care.
No one cares. And I think that's a really you know tumbling. It's a really good lesson, like you need these amazing lives, Like right, like we know.
People, it's so fun. You have this amazing and at the end of the day, you're just a parent, You're just a mom. You're just trying to get through the day, right, Yeah, I get through the day.
I don't know if I've ever told this story before, but I'm going to use this opportunity. So my house in Los Angeles was a little bit of a setup, but basically the driveway went down towards the house. So there was a they call it a French drain right that the water would go into and then a pump would pump it because otherwise the house would flood. Like this is this is how this house was set up, okay.
And I am in sweats on my hands and knees in the rain, with my hands in this drain one afternoon because it was raining and it had clogged with leaves, so not just water, but just like disgusting leaves mud, trying to clean this out so that because my garage was starting to flood, and my neighbor comes out, He's like, do you need any help? And I'm like no, this is the worst job ever. And then I turned to
him and I said, you're gonna laugh. He's like what, And I said, in about two and a half hours, you're gonna see me walk out of my house with an umbrella covering me and a tuxedo on the way to the Screen Actors Guild Awards where we're probably going to win. And we did. But that whole day, I'm on my hands and knees cleaning just shit out of this French drain, like the most horrifying thing ever. And that's that's what you described. Like, it's like that's it.
You see one you see, you see one thing, but in reality it's like.
You don't know what my day was until I got here.
Yeah, it's like, that is such a good story, and I love that so much, and I'll like, I'll never forget that.
That's a great story. It's just so humbling, right.
Oh yeah, it's just so becomes your black Car.
To the SAG Awards. I cannot wish you any more best wishes. I don't know. I tried to use it too many times.
I see you're wrapping it up.
Yes, nailed it. Is there anything else coming up that we can look out for you? And are you back to work or that?
Well, I'm coming out in a show. I don't know when I feel. I think it's the Spring. It's on Amazon, I want to say free V and it's called Clean Slate, Okay. It's starring Laverne Cox, nice George Wallace and I recur on that. That was actually the last thing I shot right before the strike, okay, And we were like day the day that.
The writers strikes start.
It was like this last two weeks of trying to wrap that show in Savannah. So that comes out in the spring, and then I am developing and I have several things up my sleeve and hopefully one of them will stick in the next couple of weeks. To be honest, we're getting there. We're back to work, Ryan, Mommy needs a job.
Congratulations. One of these days we're going to have to work together again as well. Good luck with wish. Honestly, my next watch, I think is going to be undone. You've sold me and I was looking up all this rotoscoping stuff and I saw clips and yeah.
You won't believe it. And what's so interesting.
It's so interesting because when I watch that back season one, I had just had Adelaide.
Actually no season one.
I was like, it takes so long to shoot this thing, right, I was pregnant, very large for me.
Then I you can tell that I like had the baby.
It's like the trans my own personal metamorphosis in season one is wild. And then season two, I had just had Alden and similar, it's like you can just see throughout because they can't. It's like they only paint over you, so it's like your actual body side. It's like wild. It's wild for me to watch back wow. But uh yeah, I feel very excited and very hopeful and full of wishes for this new year and what's coming.
And I can't wait to talk to you again. Maybe in next year. Let's see where we are.
Yeah, I'll be there opening night on Broadway when I can't wait when it finally hits.
That's on my vision board by the Way Broadway for the in the next five years, for.
Sure, five years, not these.
I'd like it, not this, not yet, not right now. There's too much stuff I want to do here. But also I've realized that Broadways now that I'm on the other side of those hopes and dreams of my monies, it's hard work, not a lot of money, rough, rough, rough schedule, And when you come from TV you're like, oh, it's like so cushy.
I'd like, I don't know if I don't know if I had that in me yet.
Let me just give me, give me a little minute. Yeah, so it's not as it's not all it's like cracked up to me. I could maybe do it for three months, how about three months?
Good luck? Good luck, thank you so much, happy.
Thank you for having me, thank you, Happy New Year, Happy towenty twenty four.
Angelique is so great to see you and shout out to Fort Bliss in El Paso High Fort Bliss that is where Angelique and her enlisted co stars went to train in the Hot Hot Texas. Everyone check out Wish in theaters now, whether you have kids or not, everyone loves a Disney movie. Am I right? Or if you're a little behind like me, go and watch Angelique in undone on Prime Video listeners. I'm going to be back here next week. Join me, will you? Until then? I
hope your week is fantastic. Off the Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Ling Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Ali Amir Sahi. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Bratton,