People don't realize the size of some of these guys that are moving around. That's that's the number one thing that people tell me when they see me, when they've never met me before and they recognize me, that oh wow, I didn't know you were that tall. So yeah, I'm I'm six four, six ' five and I'm the small guy.
That's you look small to me. Yeah, you look small to me, So I could take it.
Yeah, I got that guy. Give him my fade away fade away jumper. Hi.
I'm Alex Caruso and I am a professional basketball player, golf savant, an overall good guy.
Hi everybody, thanks for joining me today for another episode of Off the Beat. This is your host, Brian Baumgartner, And as you just heard, today's guest is none other than NBA star are Alex Caruso, or maybe you know him by one of his many many nicknames, Bald Mamba, Bald Eagle, Caru Show, or as Lebron James likes to call him the Goat. And even if you don't regularly watch the NBA, you're missing out by the way, you have undoubtedly seen Alex as well a meme, an internet meme.
He's a presence to say the least. Alex in college was a part of one of the most memorable comebacks in March Madness history, a game I still remember when his Texas A and m aggis defeated Northern Iowa in twenty sixteen. He then went on to sign the first ever two way contract in NBA history with the Los Angeles Lakers. Now this means he played for both the
NBA and the Development League at the same time. Alex slowly worked his way onto the NBA roster, and he helped the Lakers take the championship back in twenty twenty. After that, he moved to the Bulls and just this year he was named to his first NBA All Defensive First Team. Today, we're going to dive into Alex's career, from his high school days in college station to his taste of victory with the Lakers, to his well social media popularity and his favorite nickname. He's been called an
underrated player, but well, he's one of my favorites. Here. He is the goat Carusio Alex Caruso.
Bublon Squeak, I love it Bubl and Squeagano, Bubble and Squeaker cook it every month left over from the ninety.
Four what's up, hey, Ry, what's going on?
What's up? White Mamba?
Not much? Not much. This is the this is the calm before the storm part of the year for me.
Calm are you where are you right now?
I'm back in Chicago.
Are you working out? Are you preparing? How does this work right now?
Yeah?
I mean, you know, most professional athletes will say, like, the work never really stops.
Right.
It's been a long summer because we didn't have a great year last year. But we just started getting in the gym for a couple of weeks, been working out here at the facility, like you said, just getting ready for.
We are moments away from your first preseason games for the twenty three to twenty four season. Have you started officially practicing together yet or no?
No, not yet. Monday we leave.
We're actually doing training camp in Nashville this year, which is you know, absurd destinations. You're obscure, I guess not absurd. But we'll start practicing on on Tuesday next week.
All right?
Yeah?
Are you excited? Excited for the season to start.
I'm always excited for the season to start. But training camp, you know, that's a different. That's a different question.
Man.
Those things takes you back to college practices where it's two two and a half hours and you're getting after it every day.
That's actually what I was just about to ask you. Is it like a lot of running, Like do you do they still have you do that? Are you still doing the what is it called where you have to touch the back suicide? Do you have to do suicides?
No, No, it's not.
It's not quite to the level of that, right, But I mean most of it, like we it's we're working out, right, so we're playing pick up a couple of times a week. We're having one day where it's just running conditioning. But that's kind of the that's kind of like the expectation as you come into camp and in a certain kind of shape. That's like the professionalism of it. Okay, but yeah,
thank god, dude, I hated those. Those Those were never I don't think there's a single person like it was a coach his favorite thing just to make you run suicides, and all the players just hated it.
Yeah. I know, well they because they don't have to do when they just are watching you run suicides. Dynamic, it's just like exactly. Yeah, go run all right, Well, let's go back to your childhood. Now, your dad, I learned, played basketball at Creighton College ball and was still is associate athletic director at Texas A and M. Is that right?
What was was he's retired now, okay, good for me and my two sisters graduate from A and M all within a six year span and then once we once all the kids are gone. Him and my mom both couple of years shortly after retired. But yeah, he was at A and M for thirty years working in athletic department, and my mom worked in human resources at A and M. And still she still does some office of admission stuff
on the side now just to stay busy. But yeah, dude, we're we've been drinking the kool aid from a young age.
Right, So growing up there, because not only did you go to A and M for college spoiler alert, you went to A and M consolidated high school as well. Now, so basketball, this was a part of your DNA from the very beginning.
Yeah, honestly, sports in general was just because, like I said, my dad was one of the associate athletic directors and he basically ran all the home sporting events from the big hitters from football and basketball down to like track and field, equestrian, like the ones that have just you know, even a couple hundred to a thousand fans, And I would tag along anytime I could. And obviously basketball was, you know, kind of the main stay, and then football
just growing up in Texas. But yeah, I mean for the most part, growing up, I was I was heavily involved in sports and just kind of outside at any given time of the day.
Were you was basketball always the sport that was like your sport or did it start with something else?
No, that was always the one. I want to say.
I started playing in first or second grade, you know, just like city league kind of competition stuff like everyone gets a trophy at the end of the year. The type played flag football fifth and sixth grade, and then you know, regular school tackle football from seventh to ninth grade.
And then after my ninth grade year, I made I made varsity as a freshman basketball, and once I got a taste of that, I was kind of like, yeah, I liked playing basketball a whole lot more than I like waking up at six am and putting pads on and hitting people in a hundred degree heat, So I was I hung it up. I retired, But then I just got bored later in high school and I would do I did high jump and track and field my junior and senior.
Year because it was that at the end of the year, it.
Was in the spring and I had nothing to do.
I was getting nothing out.
Yeah, I was playing travel ball, but other than that, just bored.
You just mentioned you made varsity basketball your freshman year. I assumed you were never cut from the team. So four years, at the end of your high school you were a four star recruit, a top one hundred national recruit.
Yeah fringe, but yeah.
Well third best shooting guard in Texas and fifteenth best shooting guard in the nation according to ESPN and ninth according to scout dot com. So you probably like them better. Were you recruited to multiple schools or was it just a done deal that you were gonna go.
To A Yeah, that's a great question, because it was. It was really kind of wacky the way it happened, Like I was a late bloomer as far as like college recruiting, Like I played on varsity all four years, but my freshman sophomore year we weren't very good, and that's kind of what helped me stay on the team. Was just like I was good enough to be on our average teams, and then I kept getting better and
kept getting better. And then after my junior season, going into that spring between junior and senior year was like
the last year that you play AAU basketball. And I had a couple really really good tournaments in Vegas and in Denver, kind of the same same way I play now, where I had a couple of highlight dunks, and then the rest of my game was just really like based on heart and playing hard and making the right plays, and nobody really knew who I was, and so I got I mean, I got calls from just about everybody, and that was the big question a lot of them had, was you know, is it worth our time with a
you know, nine months left in this guy's recruitment to even even call him because he's from college station, dad works and Flake department. But I tell people all the time, I was really really close to going somewhere else, and
the only other places I considered was Colorado, Okay. Tad Boyle was the head coach, Mike Rohan was an assistant coach who was at A and M previously when I was in middle school, and I had actually played basketball with him at the park before, like we'd played one on one, like three drouble one on one and seventh
grade and then he moved on. But I just got a great vibe from you know, the coaching staff, and then they took me to Old and like, you know, the beginning of September when it's perfect and you know, there's snow, and it was like, you know a college scene out of a movie where there's just you know, people playing frisbee in a big field and people like laying on panky. Yeah, yeah, yeah, real American pie vibes. It was just like, yeah, this is great, but yeah that that was it.
How close was it?
It was close?
I think I think just at the end of the day, I had grown up such a big fan of A and M. Like, I don't think I was gonna be able to look back on it and not regret passing up the opportunity.
I thought. I thought I'd had to take it, whether.
It was you know, the right decision or wrong decision, just to have the have the chance to go to A and M. For me, it was was a pretty special thing. But Colorado was close. Man, I really liked Colorado.
You and Dion apparently.
Yeah, I was a I was the first one. You know, I set the trend.
You mentioned AAU ball. I know you played for the Texas Ambassadors, So talk to me a little about this. And I know basketball is so nuts with these side camp and the tournaments and the AAU ball on all of the traveling, I mean, all of that investment that these parents are are putting in that may or may not work out. Do you feel like for you playing high school basketball versus the AAU stuff, what what for you was more valuable or what do you think is more valuable?
I think the AAU is more valuable just from an aspect of like, if you're not a top forty recruit in the country, I don't think coaches really come to your high school games.
Like if you you.
Know, you're not one of these heralded guys that that people already know about. You have to go to these tournaments and you have to play against good competition or the guys that they say are the guys right in front of these coaches and in front of these people who run you know, the websites, the Scout dot com, the ESPN dot com, just to write, you know, gain some favor, some attention.
And when you're there because you see, I don't know, I feel like I've seen, you know, the video on the ESPN or Fox Sports or whatever of some of these games and you look up in the stands and there's like Shashchevski and Patino and all of the old school coaches are like, are like taking a look. Did you experience that? Like, were you suddenly there and seeing some of these coaches at these universities that you respected.
Yeah, definitely that was part of the experience for me. That was kind of cool. It was just like I told you, I jumped onto the scene late. So I had a couple of those tournaments where I played in this one called the Eastern Classic in Vegas, which was a big one which had a bunch of the big Power five schools, and whether it was the head coach or one of the assistants, I knew who these people were. And they all wear a team polo, so you know who they are.
They want to make sure you know, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And it was one of those things where like the more tournaments and games I played in and played against these really good players. I was holding my own and I was just as competitive in doing things that I maybe didn't even know I you know, had the capability of doing, and that you know, kind of helped me break out of my shell to just be who I really am, which is a really competitive guy at the end of the day.
Right, you know, and it only gets more and more.
Went to these camps and then got invited to a camp called the Pengos All American Camp, Yeah, which is like a big, big West Coast one. And then I got invited to the NBPA Top one hundred camp, which is like, you know, the one that the NBA puts on to host people. And I got to see NBA guys coaching me and like have this interaction and just have like my foot in the door to this space
that I never thought was possible. And then from there, like I said, I'm just wildly competitive and you know, almost naive to the fact that like these guys are supposed to be better than me and just go out there and play.
You go to a and m your dad's there, your mom's there. You grew up a fan. Is this a college career. Is this a college activity or when did you begin thinking about life.
Beyond professional sports.
I know you studied sports management, or did you just feel like you wanted to be involved in sports and maybe following your dad's footsteps and you know, be at college or professional working in management.
Man.
To be honest, I you know, the entry to college was like I had no idea what I wanted to do, you know, I was just excited to go play basketball. Like, if I'm being completely honest, school has never been a very high priority for me, whether I was going to be a professional athlete or not. My sisters still make fun of me to this day because I was the kid in high school like didn't put stuff in binder and folders. I just like put loose papers in my backpack just enough to get by and like made it
work and kind of just freeballed it. But once I got to college, man, I was just I was like I knew, I knew my dad did the whole sports thing, and sports management kind of fell into that same realm. And I'm just like I said, growing up, I played many different sports and saw so many different sports being played that I was always just I was always kind of pulled towards it, so I kind of thought I would start there and from there I just kept doing it because it was something that got me by and
something I was somewhat interested in. But throughout the course of my college career, it just I kept getting better and kept getting better. And then one of my assistants, Kyle Keller, who was head coach at SFA, he was the one who recruited me to A and M, and he sat me down one day he like, did this really cheesy kind of mock up on a on a piece of printer paper, and like half of it was like video games and like hanging out with my friends
and you know, stuff that was distracting from basketball. And then one side was like you know, a private plane and a big house and like other stuff that was like basically like if you take this seriously, like you can make a living off of it, and you can, you can have a really good career. And he asked me, it's like, what do you want to do with basketball? It's like I'm a play in the NBA. And he's like, no, it's like you have to be more concrete about it.
And I told him I was like I want to play ten years in the NBA, and I want to have a decade long career, Like I feel like that'd be a really good goal to strive for. And looking back on it now, about to go into year seven, and you know, knock on wood, you know, stay healthy for as many years as I can and play like it looks like an attainable goal.
Just a really really kind of cool, full full circle moment. But yeah, towards the end of my career, I mean they were starting. It was kind of like high school.
It was crazy how it the two kind of parallel, where I just kept getting better and kept getting you know, being competitive with myself. And then into my junior year, I have a really good game in the SEC tournament where we played Missouri, and I had like a career game, like I was like twenty eight points, seven rebound, seven assists, like five steals.
It was nuts, played like the whole game.
Then some discussions started happening from pro scouts the same way it happened with the high school scene, and kind of turned the same thing. I went through my senior year and now it was you know a real possibility to where I was going to be able to play professionally. Maybe not the NBA, but at some level, right there is interest. And for me that was music to my ears.
Like you tell me I can I can just play basketball and I don't have to like actually, you know, work work, like I don't have to do a real job.
That sounds sounds pretty good to me.
I know your senior year, you guys were pretty darn good. You end up getting a three seed in the NCAA tournament. What game do you remember the most from that senior year?
I think it's a two part answer, because there's one answer that is the two Kentucky games. Honestly, we played Kentucky at home and we won on a tip in and I think it was an overtime, and that basically that win like got us a share of the regular season SEC title, so we all got a ring and got to cut down the nets on senior night.
That was really cool.
And then we played them again in the tournament and it was like a redemption game. We're playing in Nashville, I believe, you know, Kentucky's got like eleven thousand, five hundred of the twelve thousand seats and we got like two hundred. And then there's like a mix of random people.
And it was another one. I think we went to overtime or double overtime, and it was just there're such good games that I'll always like, I still have photographic memory of certain plays and certain events just because those games are so cool. And then, you know, first NCAA tournament game, we had the comeback against Northern Iowa that to this day, you know, is one of the most asked questions people asked me about. It's like, dude, you
remember that game you had. It's like, yeah, no, I remember we had Remember that time, remember that thing you did. I was like, yeah, that was my life I lived. But yeah, that comeback game to get us into the sweet sixteen. It was probably probably those two events.
For those of you listening who don't remember or remember the specifics. Forty four seconds left, they're down twelve points and end up coming back with a layup and a free throw at the buzzer.
Basically people forget to just interject we went to double overtime after that? Yeah, no, I know, yeah, we didn't win the game, Like, we just got to overtime and then they kept throwing.
It was just the Haymakers Haymakers.
Haymakers, and then finally they missed a couple of shots late.
But yeah, it was just nuts.
The NCAA tournament is it gets so much attention, it's highlighted, and that game, for you, I still remember what an amazing game it was, what a just an improbable comeback, and you're you're obviously your play in that game. Do you think that game got people's attention?
The broad answer is like, of course, Like that's it's just such a crazy turn of events. I mean, it's it's the greatest comeback, mathematically greatest comeback in NCAA history for sure the tournament, if not the entire history of college basketball. So like that's just insane to start with. But for me, I mean it's it's kind of looking back on the NCAA Tournament, I thought I played decent in the first game. I thought I played really well in the Northern Iowa game kind of kind of helped
us carry us to get to the end. And then a couple of other guys, Daniel House and Jayleen made some place in the overtimes, and then even then I thought I played good. The next the Sweet sixteen game against Oklahoma, we just didn't play well as a team and came up short. But that's actually where I met or at least my parents were introduced to my current agent and agent i've had, Craig Lawrence since I've been
a professional, was in Anaheim at the sweet sixteen. So I mean that might be the answer right in itself, like that that might have been enough to be like, well, we might as well talk to the kid and talk to his parents and see what's see what's going on.
But I feel like that, I don't know, it feels like the embodiment for me of like you and your identity, that it's like we're gonna work hard, We're gonna come back and manage to win an exciting fashion. It feels to me like that has to be a part of it in people's minds, whether they remember the specifics of that game or not.
Yeah, I mean that's I don't think you're off base at all. I think I think a lot of you know, like you're like, you're alluding to me getting to professional basketball, even it's based off of me, you know. Kind of that same attitude I had when I said I was almost naive to the fact that like these high school kids are supposed to be better than me, and I go in there and just compete and dig my way into, you know, a spot in divisional basketball. It's kind of
the same thing. Like I just always have had this wildly competitive, you know, never say die, like you the game's got to end before you're gonna beat me attitude, and some of that I think I can attest to watching some A and basketball games growing up and just like I said, drinking the kool aid, Like I think I think this saying is like we didn't lose the game, like time just ran out, you know, we ran out of time right right, And that was that was always
my mentality, was like I'm gonna I'm gonna fight and even if you know you might you might beat me, but but as long as there's time on the clock, I'm gonna make you work.
You know.
That's just kind of how I've always been.
And I don't even think I really tapped into that until I got out of college to like have the awareness that I was that competitive and then almost to like lean into it and make it my advantage.
You get some attention obviously because of that and because of your play your last couple of years. You don't get spoiler alert. I don't know if you remember what happened to you. You didn't get drafted out of college, research research you you went played for the seventy six years in the summer league.
Then play is a generous word. I was on the team.
Okay, Well, then you get a contract. How about that with the thunder and then get way.
The good story to tell actually that yeah, people probably don't know is I went to So I went to Summer League with seventy six series and I went to Summer league, didn't play a lot, and even when I played, didn't play very well. Just a completely new new world, new you know, new basketball as far as systems and schemes and all that.
So I had a learning curve you go through.
And there was a week in August before that season that I had gotten an offer to go to Poland and play. Okay, that was like Monday, and then like Wednesday, my agent called me. It was like there's a there's a euro Cup team, there's a German team, and he's like, I'm gonna I talked to the coach, this Canadian coach. I talked to him on Wednesday, and then Friday I get another call from an agent and he's like, Oklahoma City wants you to play on their g LE team.
You can sign an exhibit in make some money here. Played the whole whole year in the G League and so like, in a week span, I went from Poland to you know, six hours north to Oklahoma City and I actually went up there, took a tour of the facilities, saw where I was going to live and all this. I was like, oh, this is this is pretty good, Like I could its better than college. It's not great, but it's better than living in with four other guys in an apartment. And then from there I started my
journey and that was just unparalleled. I feel like in a week span, I went through a lot of different thoughts and emotions to begin my professional career.
For you, was it about playing basketball or was it about making the NBA? I mean, it has to be about making the NBA. But like, would you have been content playing in the G League or the Development League for an extended period of time?
I mean I kind of did, even with you know, I played the first year with the Oklahoma City Blue and then signed a two way contract for two years with the Lakers. And majority of probably fifty percent of
both years I was in the G League playing. So it's hard to give an accurate answer to what I think I would be if I was just playing the G League for three years without the two way contract and getting a taste at least, because once once I got a taste, it was kind of, you know, like I said, I have this weird there's these weird parallels from each kind of level of basketball in my life. And once I got to the G League, I was like, oh, okay,
I'm just as good as all these guys. If not, I think I'm a little better than most of these guys. And then the next year I get into training camp again with the NBA team playing the Summer League, I'm like, all right, I'm definitely better than most of these guys. And then I get into actual NBA games and I have a couple of plays where I'm like, oh, I was like I could I could do this, Like I just gotta get a little bit better. I gotta get
a little bit better. And then you know, now we're looking six years later, I'm first team All Defense, I've been on a championship team. I wish I had more words to describe it other than just it's not blind luck, because I put a lot of work into it. But but there's a lot of just there's a lot of me just ignoring noise, you know, and just just putting my head down and competing and working really hard, and you know, luck has found me in the process.
I've read some common that you made about Sam Presti, who obviously greatly respected. Obviously you made relationships there in Oklahoma City and other places. When you sign for the Lakers summer league and end up with a two way contract, you're still playing down Is there something about the Lakers or the people there at the time where there was a shift for you that you began to feel like there may be a place for me here.
Yeah, I mean the So the whole two way contract another another fun facts for anybody. I'm the first person I ever sign a two way contract in the NBA. Yeah, So put put that in your your next game night or you're yeah, there you go your.
Sunday watching sports with somebody.
The front the front office for the South Bay Lakers just had an, you know, unwavering love and appreciation for how I played basketball, and they they just they gave me all the confidence my uh my coach, and in South Bay Kobe Carl did the same thing where he kind of recognized how good I could be, and he tried to get me to think in different ways that I wasn't you know, I wasn't accustomed to, which I
think helped helped my development as well. But the longer I played in LA, especially once Bron got there his first year, when I was on my second way or to my second year of the two way contract, and I got time to be around him in games and in practices, I started realizing that, oh, I'm seeing, you know, some of the stuff that he's seeing. And then he kind of opened my eyes to other stuff that I wasn't seeing at the same time and understanding about the game.
And then from there my confidence just grows.
You know.
I had some really good games at the end of my first year on two way contract, kind of got cut in mud when I didn't get my two way contract upgraded. But the time I didn't see the business of it. Why would you upgrade this guy when you can still get him for the same amount.
You know, It's just the business of basketball.
And I got caught in mud a little bit at the beginning of my second year on the two way, when I was in the g League, because I knew that I wasn't going to get any better playing in the GLEE, like I needed to play against guys in the NBA. I had gotten to that point where I was like, I need I need live reps at that speed,
that physicality, that intensity to get better. And then, like I said, me, me and Lebron had really good chemistry at the end of that first year, and I think that helped, you know, kind of get me back in the same spot. And then even then, like I had to, I had to kind of earn my way on that championship team. I got a d n P the first night of the season, didn't play a minute against the Clippers,
just being a good teammate. And then from there, like you know, kind of same thing I've always I've always done. It sounds like a broken record, but I was just competed really hard and then just worked my way. Took my five minutes in the game, turned it into eight minutes, turned that into ten minutes, and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, we got to have this guy out on the court. He's helping us win games, and he
is helping our best players have success. So yeah, it was it was a slow process, I think for me to understand it. But I think once I saw it, I was like, oh, yeah, there's there's a place for me in the organization.
You said something about Lebron helping you to see and feel and understand the game at that level in a new way. Is this is it? Are these conversations that happen often with Lebron and others about the game and how it's played.
Yeah, And I think I wish I would have asked more questions, you know, looking back on it, I wish I would have tried to steal more more knowledge and more stuff about it. But the Lebron and Rondo, two of the smartest guys I've ever played with and probably ever will play with. Two basketball minds have been around. They know everybody's tendencies in the league. They know who likes to go left, they know who likes to go right,
they know they know everything. And that was something to me that I was like, Oh, there's a level of detail that you can go into that I'm capable of knowing as well. But I need to learn it, and I need to I need to have, like I said, the reps in the years to gain it and then to solidify it so it's just second nature, but then
just live action in game. There was a play I remember specifically we played against Toronto in Toronto and I ran a ball stream where he set it open side on the wing and I came off and I think it was Jeremy Lynn guarding me and I don't know who was on him, but he got clipped a little bit and I came off hesitated and then just walked to the front of the rim, made a layup, got an in one, and he immediately like, we're not making a playoff. So we got our two way guy playing
with Lebron. Lebron's just playing because he loves to play basketball at the end of the season, and the intensity of him telling me, like, you see what they're doing, They're not coming off of me. You can just walk to the front of the rim and shoot layups. And I was like, oh, you're right. Like that, that's an in game read where it's like just learning how teams are playing against you, how they how they played him. And then once I realized, you know, the gravitational pool
that he has on the basketball court. From there, it was it was easier for me to decipher and make reads and make plays and put guys in positions before the play happens, to take advantage of stuff.
I'm asking because I'm truly, truly curious, because you mentioned and you mentioned Lebron and these guys with one great basketball minds and experience in the league. How is the insight that they give you better or different than what a coach can see by studying film.
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just experience, you know, being in the fire being Yeah, because there's a certain there's a certain difference of what you're thinking about how you're physically moving through the play and through the action then than just what you know the coach sees on the sideline and can tell you what to do. It's not to say that the coaches aren't more than capable.
We have a we have a great staff. But there's a difference between being on the court and seeing it and feeling it and understanding, you know, how fast you know the desperation this guy has to not let me get the ball. It's like, Okay, I'm gonna come up and I'm gonna tell him, Hey, next time, I'm gonna fake and I'm gonna go back door and it's gonna
be wide open. Coach might not be able to see that or feel that, versus you being in the in the in the heat of the battle and you know, feeling the momentum of the court and how the game's moving.
There's a lot of discussion, I feel like in football about schemes, how an offensive coordinator works, what their plan is defense the same thing having to make that adjustment. Is that similar? Do you think in basketball? I mean, I feel like what people think about in basketball is like you've got game or you don't, and you can
more easily walk into another system. But how have you found or watched with other guys coming in and trying to learn a different offense or a different a different way of approaching the game.
Yeah, no, I think I think to the untrained eye, it looks like basketball is just go out there and make more shots or.
Put up the other team right than the other team.
But that's just the All star games.
Yeah, it's at your local lifetime. There's so much detail in timing go into the schemes of basketball that that people just they probably don't see as much because there's less players, you know, which which is kind of a you know, it's kind of almost backwards. You think it'd
be easier to see with less players. But football they have such defined roles too, Like you know, the linemen are gonna block, and there's different schemes for them to move, you know, you know with the quarterbacks that they're going to do with the timing and the receivers and stuff like that. But for basketball, it's just it's so free flowing. You have to understand what you're trying to do to such a such a high level that you're not thinking
while you're out there playing. Because if you're out there thinking while you're playing in the NBA, you're you're getting beat because guys are too good, they're too fast, they're too athletic, they're too smart. It's the peak of professional basketball.
It's so detailed people don't really understand, and it's probably hard to have that conversation unless you have a certain level of basketball intelligence because there's just you know, you'd have to break down so much and talk about so many things, and it just moves so fast.
Man.
People don't realize how fast the NBA game moves. You know, it looks slow on TV, and the guys don't look that big. They're monsters out here that are moving.
Oh it's oh, it's yeah. You get in the building and you see it instantly. How fast? How physical?
Yeah, yeah, the speed of it is.
How fast, how physical? And people don't realize the size of some of these guys that are moving around. That's that's the number one thing that people tell me when they see me, when they've never met me before and they recognize me that oh, wow, I didn't know you're that tall. Yeah, I'm I'm six four six ' five and I'm the small guy.
That's you look small to me.
Yeah, it looks small to me, So I could take it.
Yeah, I got that guy, give him my fade away fade away jumper. When you're watching a game on TV, are you breaking it down? Are you looking and watching at what they're trying to do to the other players. Yeah.
I can't watch for like pure entertainment anymore. I just my brain doesn't work like that. Like I've lost the ability to just sit down and watch a basketball game. All I do is see the flaws of what they should be doing, knowing actually like what teams like to run in certain plays and being like defense didn't push them to the right spot. It's very analytical, but that's kind of my job.
So I do you put yourself there, like, are you like, okay, I'm him and imagine yourself moving within either an offensive or a defensive play. Do you go that far?
Yeah?
For the most part, Yeah, especially defensively, just because that's kind of how my brain's wired. I get really upset watching certain guys in the league because they do their patent move whatever it is.
You know.
I know that if they're in their left hand, they're gonna go between the legs and step back, or it's in their right hand, they're gonna go downhill.
And I'm like calling it out.
I'm like, he's gonna go right, he's gonna go right, and then the guy gets blown by right. It's just it's it's hard to watch, but that's that's the perfectionist and the competitor in me was like, I just don't see anything else.
Uh.
By twenty nineteen, you're playing pretty damn well. You are the only other Laker besides mister James to get a game thirty points, ten rebounds, five assists. Did you feel walking into Staple Center how much everybody loved you? Uh?
Yeah, for sure?
Why did they? Aside from the fact that you're good.
Just to start?
Staple Centers is like Staple Center in the Garden, those two places. It's it's different than everywhere else because they it's almost like the court is lit up, you know, like like a like a like a performance, you know, like it's a stand up comedy special or it's a it's a concert. Like it's dark. It's dark in the crowd.
All the lights are pointing towards there, and there's this atmosps fear about it that that just makes it special to begin with, So that that already you know, gets the juices flown as a basketball player in general.
And and then.
I'm fighting for my life at this point, right I'm on I'm on two way contract. And the way that I viewed it, like a lot of guys, you know, they might get a two way contract or they might get you know, the even the first deal I got in LA it was a two year, five and a half million dollar deal.
I had.
I had the awareness to understand, like this isn't a guarantee into the league, like this is still like you get you gotta you gotta prove it contracts. And so every time I played, like I already have the mindset of being super competitive just because I like to play
like that and I just love basketball. But now I have like almost a back against the wall mentality going into it as well, to where it's like, all right, I have to perform or else I'm not going to be here, like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna have a job. And you mix those two things together and you just had you had me playing it at a high level that I think a lot of NBA players don't play yet every night, and I was taking advantage
of guys taking plays off. And then even once you know, I had the reputation, I think it was still like a there was a lot of guys in the league that didn't believe that I could play a little bit, and it was still one of those okay, you got to prove it things, And so my motivation just kept moving and changing, and I think, you know, Lakers fans are one of the more spoiled fan bases in pro sports.
With as much success as they've had you know, but they they have high expectations and they just we talk about A and M.
We drink the kool Aid Lakers fans drink the kool Aid hard.
And and they are they if you go out there and you play to win, and you play and you play hard, they just have a certain appreciation for it. And this was you got to remember the time this was for the franchise, right, this is coming off of after Kobe left. There wasn't a lot of success. They had young players and they were trying to find teams.
It was it was a really low period.
They're bringing big names Bronze in a, DSN, Rondo's and Dwight, all these guys, the whole the whole team. And then you had me that was just you know, kind of sprinkled in there on top, and it's like who's this. Who's this crazy white guy that's out here just running around dunking on people, getting steals, like playing with this fiery energy. In my opinion, I think I represented, you know, what a winning culture and winning is about, and I think that they recognize that and appreciated it.
Yeah, it was it was certainly fun. You win the championship in twenty twenty with the Lakers, unfortunately not in front of the Stable Center crowd.
Still mad we didn't get a parade.
Yeah, that's true.
That's it's probably good to be honest, that's probably that's probably.
Yeah. What was that feeling like for you?
Oh?
Man, I haven't experienced anything like it. It's just the euphoria, the relief. I think those two words probably describe it the most. But you know, the sense of accomplishment, like there's there is nothing quite like it. And I didn't understand it. Like I had guys on the team, you know, obviously Brown and one Rondo and one Danny Green, a couple other guys, and they just talked like, there's nothing like winning the championship.
There's nothing like win in a championship, and.
Like you hear it, but you don't know until you're present in that moment and you've been locked in for four series in a row, which is just such an emotional and stressful toll on you mentally, you know, and then you get to the physical part where it's just such intense, fast, strong, physical basketball.
I mean going through all those rounds, those playoff rounds of high intensity, no plays off are you in pain, Oh for sure.
Yeah, yeah. But that's I mean, that's that's part of like like what you said, like when I said there's relief in euphoria. It's that sense of relief of like, oh my gosh, it's over, and oh my gosh, we did it because it's like I don't have to I don't have to try and block out this. You know, this wrist injury and my knee hurting that that's been that's been bugging me for the last two weeks. You just got to turn a blind eye to it and just act like it's not there because you're trying to win.
I think we won.
And then afterwards we all there was like a little restaurant in the middle of the Disney property that that we hosted everybody that was still.
In the bubble.
And I remember walking around and I was my legs were so tired, so tired, and I was so excited. It was just such like I was just battling myself. But man, nothing nothing like winning the championship, Nothing like being the last person standing that you know, nothing else anybody can say like you you've won, nothing like that, And I'm chasing that desperately now. It's something that I need to get need to get that feeling back again.
Yeah, It's it's interesting too because in a way, I think for that Lakers team who you mentioned, there had been a number of years since Kolbe had left and the last few years he was there, where there had not been a lot of winning. It felt like the joy was back, both at Staples Center and from the team itself having won, and you being a two way G League player, you know, who has come in and made such a meaningful contribution to that is a huge part of why there was joy.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, I'm sure everyone that's won a championship or won a championship, like your phone afterwards just blown up with people congratulating you from every walk, every walk of life. And that was something for me that was just really cool that I remember being really present for was so many different walks of life and people that you know, had no expectation of me making it to the NBA and winning a championship that were just
so happy for me. And it was just so cool to see, you know, even people from from high school to you know, au college, people that family friends, family friends we had grown up with that that I that I know, just that were so happy for me. And it wasn't like you could tell. It wasn't oh my gosh,
so happy for your you know, basketball accomplishment. It was just like, we're so happy for your success, you know, as an individual, and and that made it, you know, that made it even a little more a little more special for me.
You mentioned before that it's a business. Why do you feel like the Lakers after that championship didn't just try to bring it all back?
You know, that's a good question. I don't know.
I don't know if I've ever actually thought, like tooking the time and sat down and thought about it, because like you said, it's just, you know, everything's on go where you've got to move. And like you said, once I left, I was all in in Chicago and trying to focus on that. But we had a couple of
older guys on the team. But the amount of people that didn't come back was probably more surprising to me, just because I thought they were I thought they were still really good pieces that you know, you need on a championship team that that I thought they could they could use from that team. But that's kind of you know, it's it's I think it's more uncommon for teams to stay together like that just because of, like you said, the business of it. Once you win, everybody gets paid.
That's kind of how it is an NBA Like winning, winning gets you paid. So I know, I got a new deal out of that. I want to say Rondo got a deal out of it, that Javail Goat got more money out of that. Everybody got somewhat upgraded, you know, for whatever point in time they were in their career. I think that was just kind of the move that that management decided to make. I wish, I wish that'd be a great fly on the wall question for for them if anybody ever gets to interview them to to
figure out why. But yeah, we were obviously bombed too because we we had such we had such good team chemistry. Like we did multiple team events where you know, one through fifteen were there, and that's that's not as uh not as common in the you know, current NBA landscape with just how many different moving pieces there are and people and interests. So it was it was unfortunate to see because you know, we were all excited because we
just won. Two months later, you know, we didn't even get a full off season to enjoy it, and then it's new team, new season, go. So that was a little disappointing. But you know, I think i'd you know, I trade the championship and being on on that team then you know, four more years with no championship.
Right. Your current team, the Bulls, you signed a contract with, You've been a force for them. NBA All Defensive First Team this year. Why is defense? You mentioned it before when you were watching games. Why is that so important for you? Are you just better than everyone else?
Well, that's part of it is like I'm really good at it, Like it's it's it's kind of an it's it's a natural trade for me. I've always been, you know, pretty good at anticipation and seeing place before they happened in basketball. Okay, I think there's a big influence on it with like some of my early basketball coaches, Billy Gillespie, there's a name for you, that coach at Texas A and M yep, that his teams were just so tough.
You know, that was back when college basketball games were like maxing out at fifty to fifty five points.
Yeah, I was going to say it was like forty eight forty three.
Yeah, like when A and MB Texas, I want to say it was like forty six forty three. A claw hit this like final shot, and so that that kind of grit and toughness and defensive mentality I saw firsthand because I was a ball boy and I was like literally watching it courtside. And then my high school coaches, Russy Siegler and Rick Jermyn were both in the passing lane. We hold guys to fifty points, We're gonna win the game, coaches.
And so for me, I always just kind of naturally, you know, fall followed obviously coaching, but I was trying to win games and that was the recipe they set up for, so.
I went for it. Yeah, I mean there was a point.
There was a point in time. I remember going to a Texas A and M Elite basketball camp when I was in sixth grade, for like sixth, seventh, and eighth graders, and I was so nervous. I was like I had never done anything like this and played with like really really good players, and I was still I was still I was a skinny kid. I hadn't really hit a gross sper yet. And I remember trying to guard guys and just just getting torched.
It was bad.
And I think from there that's when I kind of got really competitive with it, where I was like, I can't do that again, Like I can't have that feeling of embarrassment again.
Have I ever told you my embarrassing basketball story.
No, I'd love to hear it. I feel like it's gonna be a good one.
It still sticks with me to this day. So I went to elementary and junior high school, but it ended in eighth grade and there was another school that I knew at that point I would be attending the next year for ninth grade high school. Now it went elementary school through high school by the way Westminster Schools in Atlanta, Georgia. And I'm playing the I am the starting center for I guess I. You know, when I talked to athletes,
when when did you grow? When did you When were you one of the tall kids?
I think starting in high school for me, Like I think I think my freshman year I had three months where I grew an inch, like September, October, November.
Yeah, I think I I think I was. I think I must have been early because I was. I was the center. I mean, I am like six two sixty three, but I feel like I was that tall then. I don't know if that's true. I didn't dunk even then, let's be clear, but I was the center. I was playing against the school. So all the guys out there eighth grade there, you know, junior high team, and there's a free throw happening, and I'm I'm there in the lane. They're shooting a free throw and I don't know where
my brain went, but he misses. I jump into the lane. I felt like, without even touching the ground, I put it right back up and in for them because they were shooting the free throw, and it was My memory is so clear still of like yes to like what did I just do? In like a millisecond, but I felt the yes at first, and then saw one face and then saw laughter from their team, and I was like,
oh my god. And then just running back to court to go on offense, even though I just scored, just feeling like feeling like I imagine you if somehow one of those dreams right where you end up naked at school or something, just feel like running back down the court like what did I just do?
That's probably one of the more common middle school basketball plays.
I think that is it. I think that happens a lot more often than you think.
Man, it feels like I'm the only one that I ever.
Feel like I've seen plenty of those. That's a tough one. I'm not gonna lie. That's a tough one. I don't even have words for condolence. It's just you know, next play.
Yeah, but that's the only thing you can do is just keep going.
Is it really is? You just have to ignore it.
I did it home game laughter. I mean adults laughing at me as an eighth graders on the side, just laughing. It's awful, awful.
If you play, you play the game long enough, you're gonna get embarrassed eventually.
Really, what's the most embarrassed you've ever been?
I mean, I've I've I'm pretty sure I airball a free throw in high school.
That's not that.
I don't really get embarrassed too much anymore, because there's kind of like that chip on my shoulder of like even if it's one play like last year, Jalen Brunston crossed me bad, like probably the worst one I've had in a while, like an break Yeah, yeah, like I touched Earth and and it was like the end of the game.
It was like a dagger.
Shot where it was just like that one sucked. But then I was just like, yeah, well, I'm guarding the best players in the league, and I know I'm gonna get embarrassed probably once a night. It might not be as bad as that, but like there's gonna be one play where it's like they make a really good move and the crowd just goes.
Oh, yeah, like that.
I got such short term memory now, like that stuff doesn't really even phaze me. It's more so just like, all right, let's make sure we don't compound these mistakes and get more oos and on us.
The ones that I feel like elicit laughter ish in a stadium now, like when I'm there, would be would be if and if you've ever done this, and I'm not talking about one that's contested, that's that's different. And sometimes people laugh at that and I'm like, shut up, you can't even dunk is a wide open grim dunk? No, I could just just but I mean, like a break away, did you see it occasionally.
And just as it go way too hard and.
Background into the stands? Yeah, always like that would be have you done that.
I haven't done that.
I'm gonna knock on a wood two because I'm gonna mess around and do this this year, I miss. I haven't done that professionally, I don't think. But I've had,
I mean I've had. I've had something along those lines where like there's a game in college where I was actually had a really good game and this is like late in the game, I get a breakthrough steel and I'm going down and I just took off just a little too far away, a little too far away for what time of the time of the game it was, and I got hung and I was just like, oh,
just you know, just immediate defeat. Luckily it was at home, so like I didn't get I didn't get clown too hard and we didn't win, and so I didn't with it like.
A front a front rim jam jam job.
Yeah, like I just I just babied it and didn't didn't finish it all the way and just like one.
Of those ones where like it halfway rolls on the rim and rolls back.
Yeah, it was.
It was not great.
Even called the most underrated player in the NBA, is that true?
I don't think so I think I am probably a little underrated, But I mean there are guys that people don't talk about that are still my two. My two go to guys who were like most underrated before this last year, which I don't think I can count them as underrated anymore because they both got all NBA selections was Drew Holliday and Shay gild As Alexander m Hm, because man, those those guys just they they Drew Holliday is.
Just a super complete basketball player.
Like he he if he wanted to be, he could be First Team All Defense every single year. He just has to score twenty points and give, you know, dishout eight assists a nit, which he does right. And then Shay Man, I mean he he once he got traded to Oklahoma City. That almost like jump started his career. And you don't see a lot of news out of Okay See over the last couple of years, just because they've been kind of average and it's Oklahoma City, so it's as small market as it is. But he man,
he doesn't predetermine anything. He just makes reids on offense and then sneaky good hands on defense.
He's a really good player too.
Last season you played more than you ever had, more minutes, more starts, more games. Do you think you're going to break that this year?
Yeah, I think I do.
I think I can do it pretty easily, to be honest, you know, I say easily easily is a relative term because it's a really really hard thing to do. I think I played sixty seven games last year, and I missed I missed a handful because of my foot, and then a couple others just from miscellaneous stuff. But I think I think a seventy plus game season is very doable.
And then I mean the minutes and the starts kind of have to deal with how our season goes with personnel, you know, like if Lonzo is here, I probably don't have as many starts as I do now. But I mean all those all those things is just being prepared and being being ready with my opportunities is called and that's kind of what my kind of my whole career has been based on. Just when the opportunity is ready, heard arises that that that I'm ready to go.
Caru show the bald eagle, bald Mama mamba.
Uh.
Even Lebron called you the goat. Do you have a favorite nickname.
I'm a really I'm a really big fan of Carus show. I think that one's I think that one is the most most fluid and also just I really like the I like the name.
You and I we have something in common. We have a lot of memes, Yeah, we do.
Yours are a little more iconic, I think. But but I mean, I'm how do you feel about it? I I think it's fun, man, I mean hopefully you know. Now We've had a couple of conversations, like, I'm a pretty easy going guy. My uh, I got a group text with a handful of buddies from from when I grew up, and our love language is making fun of each other. That's that's how, you know, Like we're checked in and we care about each other.
It's like they keep me very humble. We'll keep it at that.
Yeah, they still treat me like I'm you know, they're their friend from fifth sixth grade. But yeah, yeah, so we I mean, I'm I said this before, like I'm seeing the memes and and the videos. You know, they're sending them to the group chat before I even have a chance to see him firsthand. So they do a good job of keeping it light, but I also I also.
Prefer it that way.
How's a golf game, man?
Golf games?
Actually, it took a really really big step forward this summer. I got into I got into my club, Spanish Oaks in Austin. I got I got hot into June beginning of July, which makes me even more upset. I couldn't play in the tournament this year. I had had a buddy get married on that Saturday.
Oh no, yeah.
Dude, just just it's still hard to talk about, because.
Why did you go to the wedding? A wedding?
Yeah, I know, looking back on it, maybe should have flipped a coin. But he's a good friend to me for a long time, so I felt I needed to represent him very well and be there.
Did you stand up at the wedding?
I had a good time. No, I wasn't in the wedding. I wasn't in the wedding.
Oh you just attended?
Yeah nice, I'm a nice guy. But golf game.
And we had a stretch into June beginning of July where I think I got my handicapped down to a three, and it was it was, it.
Was like it was it was.
It needs to get updated because I played.
In this live pro am event last Thursday, and I had a good day. But it wasn't it wasn't anywhere in three territory.
Well, best of luck games starting in the association coming up here just about a month the end of October. Best of luck to you this year, Best of luck to the Bulls. You're gonna make the playoffs this year?
Yeah, I have to, I have to not an option should have made it last year. We gave away a lot of games, so we we we should have a little bit of a chip on our shoulder and definitely get there.
For not.
I'm gonna be I'm gonna be hibernating because I'm I'm just pissed and embarrassed and upset.
So well, good.
I don't want you hybrid playoffs.
I don't want you. I don't want I don't want you hibernating. I'll see you in the playoffs. If not before, I'll uh, I'll try to make it there and see you, uh see you play a home game. Thanks for coming on, and seriously, good luck this year. Let's make uh let's make all NBA defense again.
All right, that's always a goal, man. I appreciate it all.
Right, Thanks bud Alex, thank you so much for coming on here and carouse showing me what you're all about. Not that great, uh. I can't wait to watch you this season as always, and here's hoping that you and the Bulls make the playoffs this year. Great news, everybody, breaking news here on off the beat. If you haven't heard, the writers strike is over. That's right. The WGA reached
a deal with the studios. So now the writers of all of your favorite movies and television shows, they're now going to be back creating content while being fairly compensated for all their work. It is important to note, however, that my union sag after just yesterday, after two months on strike, it should be noted, began negotiations with the studios on their new contract. Now. My hope is that the two sides can come to a fair resolution in a timely manner. The time is now to get all
of Hollywood back to work. So here's hoping that the studios take all of the issues seriously and they negotiate in good faith and that an agreement is close at hand. Now. I know we've talked a lot about that here on the podcast, so I wanted to give you that very exciting update with a word of caution that we're all not quite out of the woods yet. Stay tuned for, hopefully very soon more good news. Oh and one more piece of good news for you. I'll be back next
week for another episode of Off the Beat. Until then, everybody, have a great week. Off the Beat is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langlee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Ali Amir Saheed. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Bratton.