Hello and welcome everyone to another edition of The Book Report. I am Adam, joined as always by our master teacher, Caitlin. Hi! What's up, Kate? Hey, how you doing? Adam literally just had me burp on command because that's something I can do. You could have fucked up my voice. Approve it.
Okay, you did it. Welcome. Hopefully I made none of you run away or want to throw up right now with that sound. As I felt the first time we listened to Rick and Morty. It was like the fifth Belchin. I'm like... I can't. Yeah, you started getting sick because he's belched so much. Wow. How do you even go? Where do you even go from here? I don't know. This is a wonderful start to this book report. There's only up from here. Well, we're here to talk about...
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum? Baum? Yeah, that is one thing in my research. I did not research, do you say Frank? Is it L Frank? Is it Baum or is it Baum? So you guys yell at me somewhere. I'm not on social media, so you won't find me there. Let's call him LFB. LFB. Kind of like... Oh, no, that was the BFG. The classic Roald Dahl story. The LFB. No, that was a different one. I'm going with Baum. Like Salon. Baum. Like Smaug.
El Frank Baum. Not the bomb. This guy was the bomb, guys. He was El Frank the bomb. No, he was Baum. The dragon Baum. Anyways, yes, we're talking about the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Today. Tonight. Right now. In your ear. Let's do it then. Let's go ahead and jump right in. Okay. No more belches, you sick fuck. And no more bound bomb talk. Let's get to the real stuff. I will not be belt shamed.
You will not. Not in this household. We are belch positive. We are belch positive. We are fart positive. We are sex positive. We are. This family is and this show is. And our listeners. Hopefully you are too. Otherwise you probably wouldn't be here. Let's jump in. Tell me about The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum. So I would start off with, you know, the timeline. Don't you dare ask me. I did not put that here.
No, I can just give you that it was published nearly 125 years ago on May 17, 1900. Okay. But it was immediately popular. The first edition, they printed out 10,000 copies, quickly sold out. And so even that, like, Baum was a fanboy of himself.
He was definitely one of those like entrepreneurial spirited guys who got his hands in a little bit of everything, loved to tell stories, but was also like a traveling salesman, worked with a circus, tried his hand in everything from carpentry to circuitry to architecture. I don't know.
He was wanting to do everything. But all along the way, he loved to tell stories. And you can kind of see those bits of himself in the work. But anyways, he believed in this work so much that after he wrote the manuscript, he framed the fucking pencil.
He put, he put it in a frame and then underneath it, he's like, I wrote, he didn't have like this, the name of the story yet. So he's like, I wrote the man, this is the pencil. I wrote the manuscript for, um, the wonderful wizard or something like that with, and, um, He was even there like when the first copy came off the press, he assembled the very first pages. So the very first copy of this book himself.
wrote inside like this is the very first copy i put it together with my own hands and like gave it to his sister you know what i it's kind of sounds kind of cool actually i feel like i would do the same stuff he was just so excited about everything he did you said he framed or whatever the
pencil he framed the pencil and this was like after the book was famous or he was like no no no he was betting on himself so he was betting on himself he finished the manuscript was excited about the story that sounds kind of like it's not even printed yet so this is before it went to This is before the first copy came off the press. He framed the pencil. I'm trying to think of a modern equivalent. And I think the only thing I could think of.
And I know that she's fallen out of favor, but JK Rowling, when she, you heard like the rumors of, Oh, she would write Harry Potter like on bar nap, cocktail napkins. Oh, and like bills and envelopes and something like that. Like, I mean, maybe she did keep those, but like even before it came out to like then frame it and feel like this is kind of.
I wrote this story. It's a bold move. He did. How old was he when he wrote this? Do you know? I don't know. Let me look up. Really good research over there. I did his research. Frank L. Frank Baum. Baum. uh let me look it up real quick that's something that i can google immediately this moment so you dear listener don't have to do so l frank baum When was the man born? He was born in 1856, so he was 44 years old. He was all about it. What was his wife's name?
Oh, I have that here. When did he die? Shut up. I'm just joking. Shut up. Shut your beautiful mouth. This is the nice part for me when I come in very ill-prepared and I can just throw questions at you. He did dedicate the book to his wife. Okay. So, Maude. Maude. Maude. What a great old lady name. Now, I have a question, and maybe you'll get to this, but I saw in my, again, my minimal research that I did for this recording tonight.
It looked like there was like a series of books. There are 13 sequels to this, my dude. Really? When I said it was like popular, I mean it was popular. So everything that we know, well. I haven't read the book. Everything I know from, like, the movie. Is the movie kind of close? It's the first book. It's Wonderful Wizard of Us. Okay, that's pretty close. Just like last time when we were talking about the Jungle Book, we mostly know...
Just like the first three stories in that collection, which is, the Jungle Book is actually a collection of short stories, but we mostly know the story of Mowgli. It's like you pick the highlights. Exactly. And so we know the wonderful Wizard of Oz, but there's a bunch of others. And... One thing that made it very popular at the time is he made sure he collaborated with his friends. So he wrote it and his friends illustrated it. So W.W. Dunslow.
And so his friend also held copyright to the story as well. So they worked together, which is unfortunate because later they had a falling out. But an early op-ed about the book stated that if not for Denslow's pictures. readers would not have been able to picture any of the characters based solely off of Baum's writing. Oh, they were that loosely described. Yeah, he just said, like, there's this tin man, there's this lion. And so, you know.
Denslow and Baum spent a lot of time talking about what things would look like. And made sure to have these illustrations there. And that's really what was key to people really latching on to it. Sounds like it was doing a lot of the heavy lifting of the imagery. But when I say it was popular, like...
Two years after this thing was published, it had been turned into a stage musical. Oh, wow. And that musical was rewritten to appeal to an adult audience, and they used costumes modeled after Denslow's drawings. So it was definitely like... fan, you know, fan service. Um, and then 1910, so 10 years later, um, the first silent mill about it, the first silent film was made, um, by the Selig Polyscope Company. Oh, okay. Yeah.
uh so you know most of us know what the 1939 work is that um but that's not the first one so immediately there you know it's kind of like one of those where you have novels that are big hits and it just immediately you're getting the rights to a show or Shondaland grabs it or it's in a movie. But this was, you know, 1900. It's happening then. And since he was such a big fanboy for his own work.
He was the one really that was out there promoting it and like meeting with these people on Broadway. And he's meeting with this company, this polyscope company to make this. So he was greatly involved in all these offshoots. And he kept turning them out. So just like for those of you who might not know somehow what the story's about, I'm just going to read off the Goodreads summary.
For the first book. Yeah, for the first book. Because I'm kind of curious about you reading the other summaries. Because I'm just curious, like, what the hell happens in this? I don't know. Yeah. It'd be interesting to hear. It's The Wiz. The 1970s Wiz. Do me a favor. Read. the first synopsis of Goodread.
And then can you read like a future one, too? Like, can you find the 13th one? The 13th, the very final one? And just read it and see. I would love just to kind of hear like what that book is about. Where it goes. Yeah, sure thing. So Goodreads summary of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz says, swept away from her home in Kansas by tornado, Dorothy and her dog Toto find themselves stranded in the fantastical land of Oz. As instructed by the Good Witch of the North and the Munchkins,
Dorothy sets off on the yellow brick road to try and find her way to the Emerald City and the Wizard of Oz, who can help her get home. With her companions the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Cowardly Lion, Dorothy experiences an adventure full of friendship, magic, and danger. A much-loved children's classic, The Wizard of Oz continues to delight readers young and old with its enchanting tale of witches, flying monkeys, and silver shoes.
Oh, that's right. Silver shooters. Yeah, the OG was silver. Okay, yeah, I gotta look this up. Good reads. I wonder what even the other books are called. Is it the Wonderful Wizard of Oz colon something else? Well, they're called Oz books. So let me go to number 14. Glinda of Oz. Ooh. Okay. Okay. It's published in 1920. Okay. And this is the 14th one? 13th one? 14? There's 13 sequels to the OG. Let's see this synopsis. Let's hear this. All right, good reads. Okay, show more. This is...
Peace, prosperity, and happiness are the rule in the marvelous land of Oz, but in a faraway corner of this magical domain dwell two tribes, the Flatheads and the Skeezers, who have declared war on each other.
determined to keep her subjects from fighting the ruler of oz princess ozma along with her dearest friend princess dorothy gale formerly of kansas embarks on a quest to restore peace When the Supreme Dictator of the Flatheads refuses to cooperate with Ozma, she and Dorothy seek out Queen Kuweo of the Skeezers, hoping she will be more reasonable.
But the queen imprisons Ozma and Dorothy in her grand city and then traps them by submerging the whole city underwater. Now it is up to Glinda the Good to save the day. She assembles all of Ozma's counselors, including such beloved Oz friends as... The Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, Cowardly Lion, Patchwork Girl, Shaggy Man. Shaggy Man. Tik Tok. Tik Tok. It's actually spelled T-I-K dash T-O-K. Oh, wow. And Wizard of Oz.
The whole gang's back, you guys. And they set out to rescue their friends. Will the magic powers of Glinda and the wizard combine to be enough to free Asma and Dorothy? A rousing tale of suspense, magic, and adventure. Glinda of Oz is the 14th and final Oz book by L. Frank Baum. It's a grand conclusion to his chronicles of America's favorite fairyland. This deluxe gift edition features all 12 of Oz artist John R. Neal's
Beautiful color plates. See, by then, the OG guy is gone. Oh, okay. Along with his nearly 100 black and white pictures, making it a perfect gift for all Oz fans, new and old. Okay, so everything you were saying, my mind, so... I haven't read the Dune series, but when I went back and was kind of...
After watching the two excellent movies, I was like, oh, I'm curious about where this goes and researching it. And it goes off in insane directions. So as you were just reading this, I was like, man, is Dorothy, she's a queen now. Is she going to have a relationship? with the Tin Man and they have these like child, this love child that turns into like a flying monkey that exists for like millennia and just observes, quietly observes the changing of Oz.
Like some trippy ass weird. I don't think that L. Frank Baum was that sort of dude. He wasn't going that dark. He wasn't going that sci-fi with it. He wasn't deep. No. That sounds interesting. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's another thing. We could just go down that.
You can. We could spend a whole time. In fact, feel free, dear listener, to do that. Go to Goodreads and check out all 14 of those. Reach out to us if you've read any of the other future books, the other sequels. That'd be so interesting to hear. I wonder why, I mean, the first one was so popular. And if we know one thing about IP these days, They will milk, they will bleed every drop. And it's been in public domain since the mid 50s. Just how has no one taken with IP again?
I am not Mr. IP. Let's bleed it to death. I'm just shocked that no one is taking it. After this is such a beloved book, Wicked being so popular. How have they not, how has someone not just grabbed the wonderful Wizard of Oz, made it? Of course, it's going to get kind of... You know, it's not going to touch Judy Garland's movie or whatever. But then any sequels, like I wonder if any sequels have been made after the popularity. Or Return to Oz. But The Wiz is like fanfic, isn't it?
I think those are all fanfics. I think it was wicked. It's fanfic. Like how have they not adapted to any of these? Exactly what we do. Exactly. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just talking to myself out here. I'm so curious. I guess you have to be that guy. You're the filmmaker in this family. You know what? You've been doing your research. Let me go on. Let me go on. You go do it. Let me see.
Followed by... Okay, so I'm here on IMDb. This is probably the most interesting audio we've ever done on this whole show. It's just us looking shit up. So I see that, obviously, 39 was The Wizard of Oz. Then there was a series in 1961 called, and these are cartoons, Return to Oz was 1964. I mentioned that, yeah. 1972, Journey Back to Oz, Return to Oz in 1985. Is this based on...
I just don't even know what is based on anything. The Wizard of Oz. Oh yeah, there was that terrible looking movie back from 2013 that had James Franco in it. That had the Oz, the Great and Powerful. I didn't see that. So maybe that was good. Legends of Oz. There's so many Oz things. I'm surprised that they didn't do. It looks like they didn't do any of the other books. Anyways, we're going so off on a tangent here. I'm just so fascinated because they're such a beloved movie.
And sounds like book series, it seems like it'd be ripe for just making more and more and more and more of those. Maybe the law of diminishing returns. Anyways, so Baum wrote the series, instant hit. He framed the pencil. He's all high on himself, made this beloved series. I would love to know, well, I guess context of...
It was popular, but what did it do for literature or why is it like significant? Why is it something, I don't know if it's taught, is it taught in schools in your experience? No. No, it had popular critical acclaim. It sounds like the writing itself, maybe the prose wasn't that great. You're right. The story itself, like a lot of people loved and. So, you know, it flew off the shelves that way, but it wasn't recognized by academic circles. Like scholars believed at that time, especially in the.
early 1900s, that the lengthy series didn't really have too much merit from a literary standpoint. And at that time, too, they were leery of the fantasy genre. They didn't really see too much... worthwhile study of that I mean you see that for a while it really isn't until we get to the 60s 70s where more attention is paid to the fantasy genre especially if it's if it's
It's lumped in maybe for kids. It's easier to dismiss. Yeah. It still is, though, known as one of the best known stories in American literature. You know, even looking at the Library of Congress, it says, you know, when you look it up there. In their digital archives, they proclaim it as like America's greatest and best loved homegrown fairy tale. So it was the first American fantasy that was made for children.
Really? Yeah. And I mentioned you start to see more recognition in the 50s, 60s, 70s of the fantasy genre. But even then, like, oh, and this is a banned book, by the way. Oh, why? Yeah. Was it because the Dorothy Tin Man romance you mentioned earlier? I believe it was in, yes. Yeah, it was in Michigan that the...
A lot of the public libraries banned it starting there, saying it has no literary merit and it's just teaching emptiness to children. I don't know. Why should it be banned? You could just say it's a bad book or it's not well written.
But you didn't ban it? What the hell? However, I love one clapback. There was this professor from Michigan State University, Professor Russell B. Nye, in 1957, who countered with an official statement saying that If the message of the Oz books, which is love, kindness and unselfishness, making the world a better place, if that seems of no value today.
then maybe the time is ripe for reassessing a good many other things beside the Detroit Library's approved list of children's books. So he's just like... Clap back. Yeah, he's like, what is wrong with this? Look at the basic of the story. yeah it's not a beautifully written thing which that way I was noticing that too as I'm like I'm going through it because I love to go through see like sentences and and wording from the author I'm like oh this is gorgeous like no but I love
He came up with cool names for things. He came up with cool ideas for the time. Now, also, my teacher brain got really excited because this story's a... perfect example of Joseph Campbell's monomyth, the hero with a thousand faces. It's the hero's journey. So you see her follow that specific circle of the hero's journey. Perfectly. And really a huge selling point for this story that even Brown was aware of was Dorothy, you know, his protagonist.
Had to be the selling points. He was greatly influenced by Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. So Alice's Adventures in Wonderland from 1865. Falling into a different world. Right. Now, he said the plot was incoherent, which understandable. Yeah.
But he knew that younger readers were entranced by the character of Alice herself. And so he wanted to create an accessible girl to be his protagonist who was plucky and had a lot of those lovely... american gumption things that they wanted to like you know put forth as the american dream um and furthermore there was that personal side to it kind of like as a side note fun fact about this um
He named the protagonist Dorothy because his niece, who basically was like the daughter that he and his wife had never had, passed away two years before. So passed away two years ago.
Um, and she was only five months old. And so it's like, she was just there, everything. And so his wife was devastated. Kind of the name alive. Yeah. I kept the name alive. And even like, and once again, he dedicated the book to his wife, Maude, who was just like, going through it at the time so once again another example of like someone using the creative medium of storytelling to also process tough stuff going on in their life too um
So you see that. I love that. I've mentioned this many times in my own teaching when I'm going through the monomyth. And then on the other hand, also... There's a course that I have taught that is U.S. history, U.S. literature combined. And so I use this also to teach about the populist movement in the 19th century U.S., you know, kind of. favoring the farmers and coming you know like let's lift up the farmers and the common man let's go to a gold and silver standard here
Not just Hollywood and New York glitz. Exactly. And so you had a lot of politicians that were big on that. I reference William Jennings Bryan's cross of gold speech as something that's... nonfiction, but then I point to this because there was this article in 1964 in the American Quarterly titled The Wizard of Oz Parable on Populism.
And so this one educator, Henry Littlefield, he posited that the book served as a perfect allegory for the late 19th century bimetallism, silver gold debate regarding monetary policy. And so his thesis achieves some support, even though it's been criticized by others. And I'm kind of of that camp. I'm like, you see a lot in this story that is just perfectly fitting that populism. You have... This girl from Kansas, which was, you know, the area of the U.S. that was largely supported by populism.
You see the Silver Shoes and the Yellow Gold Road. You see the Wicked Witch of the East. So you have that area that had been conquered, and now they're going to... the other coast, they have to defeat the Wicked Witch of the West. Interesting. You have the Tin Man. You have those factory workers. Is this all grasping or looking for meaning? Brown never put out something official. So this is more one of those like... you know, this is your classic English teacher.
Why is the light green across the, but it's just like, it lines up as like, man, this is a great allegory. Even if it's not meant that it's like, it's a great allegory that a lot of educators use to like show students like, Hey, like this is kind of. on the minds of people at that time. So even if he didn't mean it that, that he's living in the middle of this populism movement, it would be fascinating to see if any of that bled into what he was thinking about.
I mean, his niece Dorothy bled into it. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So yeah, you have the Tin Man. So these factory workers who have no heart. So they're losing their humanity. You have the... scarecrows so these uh farm workers who are accused of having no brain so i have no idea what the line is i'll figure that out but Rip it right now. Come on. Come on, master teacher. What does the lion represent? Oh, man. The cowardly lion. The common...
The common American man who's lost his gonads, his balls, his bravery. You truly are a master teacher. Thank you. No, that makes sense, though. I mean, we're joking. It's really easy to maybe overanalyze sometimes, but I think that's what...
Writers do. I mean, you pull from what you know and your own experiences. You're influenced by the times you're in. Yeah, exactly. You're influenced by the times you're in. Exactly right. Gone with the Wind, yes, is a story about the Civil War, but it really is a story about the Great Depression. you know yeah so um when kind of to round it up though like more of like this and and i i hope i'm answering the why you should read this too in it you know why why this is yeah of merit
I was reading this one essay for PBS's American Experience written by Rebecca Onion, and she put it really well. She said, perhaps the potency of the Oz story lies not in a specific interpretation of its meaning.
but in its ability to serve as a blank canvas for so many kinds of American fantasies. And so, you know, Baum wrote this very optimistic American fable. You know, it's this... mythological fantastical story that takes place in an alternate version of the U.S. that really builds on that kind of what we were talking about with The Great Gatsby but you know how
Gatsby takes a twisted version of it. This is an optimistic version of the American dream. But it's one group of friends' path towards happiness, which is the American dream, right? So... you know, writers, filmmakers, artists today, like, have seen potential in this. And so many amazing works have been created and influenced by either the amazing Wizard of Oz. So, I...
I say like you see this story. Sorry, the wonderful Wizard of Oz. You see this story reiterated in so many fashions. And so that's why you have a lot of stuff that's like built off this. I wonder if it's one of the first. Like road trip movies. People like all, you know, a ragtag crew of like weirdos coming together on a road trip together.
It is cool. You hear about that kind of a unique thing with American cinema because it's so massive. The country is so massive that you really can get differences going on. And you have a lot of subgenres of people themselves even. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, like the commentary on consumerism alone, you know, like those one detail that I made sure to put into it was the Emerald City is not actually Emerald.
you have to wear these green glasses when you go in and that's what makes it Emerald. So it's just like, it's such a cool concept that you see a lot of, even in an optimistic thing, there's still commentary, there's still criticism. of the U.S. at that time. So it's not all sunshine and daisies. You see a lot of problems that even Baum was aware of in the country at the time, and so he still was weaving it into his narrative.
So there's a lot of really, really cool ideas that when you read it, you start to recognize, oh, I've seen this in another series that I've read, or I've seen hints of this in a movie I watched, or I've seen this concept, you know. time and time again, well, if you trace it back to this work from 125 years ago and how famous and well-known it is, yeah, I would hazard to guess that
There are tons of current storytellers of all ilk who, whether or not they're really trying to do it outwardly, they are influenced by Wizard of Oz. In your preparation for... the podcast was this your first time reading the novel yeah never read it before what did you think about it like what was your personal opinion on it i the once again the the prose itself
You can tell it's simplistic, perhaps because it's meant for kids, but there are a lot of really cool ideas. It really read like, man, yeah, this is perfect fodder for an adventure. Writing adventure for D&D. Definitely. But as I was going through it, I'm like, this is hitting every single step of the hero's journey. And I absolutely love it.
because you don't always recognize it, or it's not always easily seen. So that made me... very excited from just both a narrative and storytelling perspective as well from a teaching so i was man i i'm a big fan of the monomyth so when i see stories that follow that It's classic. I mean, that's why it works so well. I love the transition now to the podcast.
You mentioned the pros, not necessarily blowing your hair back. And I'm actually having a hard time even thinking of a quote that you pulled, but I'm sure you did. Do you have any moments from those episodes of The Wizard of Oz where you pulled out some prose or a quote from a character that you liked? At the very beginning, I quoted... I think I made it about Penny.
But the direct quote from the book is, a little way off was a small brook rushing and sparkling along between the green banks and murmuring in a voice very grateful to a little girl who had lived so long on the dry gray prairies. And so I... Twisted it to like a girl who had grown up on the dry gray streets. That and let's see. I'm going through. I always highlight the ones that I try to weave in.
Oh. What are the Kalitas? asked the girl. And then it says, they are monstrous beasts with bodies like bears and heads like tigers, replied the lion. And with claws so long and sharp that they could tear me in two as easily as I could kill Toto. I'm terribly afraid of the Cletus. So I wove that in there with the narrative.
There are things that you pulled that might have been in the movie. Again, I feel like the movie is so iconic. But I didn't remember that. The Kalitas, I didn't remember that. I didn't remember a... There's a stork. There's a big ass stork. A big stork. Yeah, there are certain things that I did not remember from it. that I really enjoyed. I remember for you and me forever ago, when we were just talking about future potential arcs for the series, it just made so much sense.
We didn't know where it would fit necessarily, but we were like, if we need to go from A to B, this could be a perfect filler kind of arc. And the moment we were like, man, we have a Tin Man with Bertram. It was always meant to be. And then after that, I was like, man, I feel like we could fill in the rest and make that really work. And that'd be really cool. That little happy accident. So I'm really glad we got to get to it.
Were there any other kind of Easter eggs that you planted? I mean, when the flying monkeys first appear and they take the two friends away, Millie Mildred. Yeah, I read straight from that. So it said the remaining monkeys threw pieces of stout rope around the line and wound many coils about his body and head and legs until he was unable to bite or scratch or struggle in any way.
Then they lifted him up and flew away with him to the witch's castle, where he was placed in a small yard with a high iron fence around it so that he could not escape. So just like in that description, the scene, I could use that. There's a little piece, I think it's on the, when Awin and Penny are rescuing Mildred and Millie from the top of the watchtower. I took...
a little bit from the scene where it says, what is it? asked the lion. Well, answered Oz, if it were inside of you, it would be courage. And so, you know, you, you have as the proxy for the lion character in this, you do have Millie, you know, you're.
Your tiger tabaxi. Yeah. And so I made sure, you know, she was very cowardly. Yeah. I appreciate that because you never really made her cowardly before this arc. But then you kind of. Whatever happened on the island really fucked her up. But also I think you try to make it. she was afraid of heights so being in the balloon made her afraid but yeah maybe that maybe that's as simple as it was that she was more comfortable on a ship on on the peck wide not i'm looking at the next one oh go go ahead
I got to say this word for word from the book to the point where I'm like, what is happening? But when they finally defeat the Wicked Witch... You know, by throwing water on her, which is in this book. Here I go. I have a copy here. In my notes it says, quote, see what you have done, unquote, she screamed, quote, in a minute I shall melt away, dot, dot, dot. Look out! Dash! Here I go! Exclamation point. See? Beautiful prose. Frank L. Baum. Or L. Frank Baum. Beautiful prose.
That reminds me, this is such a random reference. You've seen the Austin Powers movies, right? Oh, yeah. Do you remember when Will Ferrell's character falls into a pit and you think he's dead and they're listening to him? They try to keep moving on. He's like, I'm still very much alive. It just keeps. Yeah, it just keeps. And then the gun comes out and shoots. They're like quietly waiting.
It's like, oh, you've shot me. And it keeps going. It just kind of feels like that where it's like it just keeps going. It's kind of awkward. Like, okay. Anyways, that was really a fun. I love when you get to pull out moments like that. Yeah. And how and how wonderful it was when Ewen dropped like the most just by dropping a thing of water on her.
That was like the most powerful. How did you feel creating that character knowing that there was such a mighty weakness to her? Like, how do you make a character? Is it more just at that point? It's not about. necessarily having the most powerful bb and well when i did design i mean that's the thing what i do i do this all the time you know even when we were doing the the special side adventure that i did for our network for christmas
And I was designing the Santa for it, the Santa monster. Oh, yeah, yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh. I made... Mask of the Red Death, if you haven't listened to it. What are you doing? Caitlin did an amazing job with our other shows. But anyways, I designed that Santa so fucking powerful. To the point where I'm like, I also am under a time limit. To me, whenever I'm doing these fights and these encounters, in my mind, I kind of have a max limit of rounds in my head.
for like before it either gets boring or tedious and so it's like if I do this it's going to make it last so much longer or it could be a TPK or not I don't know but also I want to let my party you know my players just have at it and you guys are so powerful um He had one ability where he had this ghostly sleigh just come through and it was just like death. What about the witch? For the witch, she had some multi-attacks. Well, I had under...
her belt because of the level she was. Powerward death kill. But I thought, don't need to do that. Don't really need to do that. Did you think about killing Millie or Mildred? I did, but they won me over. Who would you have killed? Or would you have kept it random? I would have kept it random. That's one thing where there are certain characters that I've always known I would kill, like Robin.
But there are other characters where I know that somebody's going to kill. Well, if it's a spoilie by now, what are you doing listening? That's true. But yeah, so by that time... you know it's sorry at that time then i kind of like to have some kind of chance there um hell even like maybe one of you who knows but it's resurrection's possible or now we make it now i'm like surprise we're doing dante's inferno i know that actually would be sick if i kill any of you i'm
Let it be known. I'm doing that. That's going to be. Hey, we were only going to have this many works. We have Virgil. Virgil pops up. Don't worry, guys. I know. I know a place. But yeah, that'll happen. So if I kill any of you three. Don't worry. Just know we're doing. We're doing Dante's Inferno. We're doing the Divine Comedy. But yeah, we have, you know, the Cyclone in this. There is the Rescue, the Launched Balloon.
there was in lieu of a council with the munchkins I had like munchkin munchies you know just the idea of like they're the ones who launch Dorothy off into this adventure so this balloon is the thing that launches you off Was there a big, there was a moment we had a big gorge where there was like the bridge. There's a big gorge that they have to like cross, you know, there, there's the, the, the poppies that make you fall asleep.
I love how you get to incorporate these things. Yeah, fighting the Kalitas. Yeah, Glinda's in there. I made sure to, it sounds like you really liked Glinda. She's your bestie. I love turning her into a big giant moth.
That was super fun to get to talk with her. Any other things to highlight? Those are like the big ones right there. Kind of like every episode had... I think like one or two quotes from the work and then at least three elements from the work and one of those three is like a main plot point.
Every single encounter you guys had, every single thing you had to solve or fight or get across is taken directly from the source work. Well, I'm always impressed by how you have to do it because it's so hard because it's not just in a vacuum by itself.
You have to, you dropped us here coming off the island after a lot of crazy shit went down. And then it's like, we got to get from A to B. And while we're doing that, let's try and... you know do as best we can do yeah it was fun it was fun though like at the very end because that's always when i get the most nervous of like how am i going to lead into the next work how am i going to connect
in this case, The Wizard of Oz, to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Well, then let's go ahead and transition. I was going to do a game first, but hold tight, listener. I'll get to the game after this Q&A session. Ooh. We had a couple of questions come in and you're hitting on one that we should go ahead and get to. Thank you guys for submitting questions. Again, we're going with some of our patrons.
uh if you want to be a patron click the link below and you get some awesome rewards like behind the scenes content you can have we have game nights you guys can play games with us we have after show we're gonna play this sunday that's right we have an after show where we uh where we record immediately after the recording and we just talk about the episode and all our insights and thoughts and everything else. Anyways, become a patron. We would love to have you part of the Old Man Man Fam.
You can talk to us on the Discord. Anyways, we have three patrons who submitted questions. And one of them is you're kind of hitting on. It's from Nathan. And they said, I really liked how Kate, I really like how Kate transitions between books. Moby Dick and this new one. My favorites. What goes into that decision? Well, I try to figure out what's the vibe of the next one because we usually... By vibe, do you mean genre? Yeah.
Sometimes it's a full genre. Like one of my favorite ones we ever did was the noir one for Oliver Twist. Like just made that whole thing. Other times it's more like a vibe. And so what I'm going for. in um in jekyll and hyde is a dark academia one kind of like cloak and dagger yeah
You're in the halls of a university. Well, we haven't done it yet. No one's heard it yet. You're getting a little taste of what's to come. Well, there you go. I mean, at least you already know it's Jekyll and Hyde. But yeah, so I'm going for dark academia. And so I figure out what's the vibe of the previous one, which was more of like a search and rescue, but also like aftermath. I couldn't really like pin down a genre for this that it felt since it's.
the hero's journey ones, they're kind of more general. Um, and so I'm like, how can I go from, um, mourning and, uh, you know, coming back together. So repairing, um, into dark academia.
um so i i i do i make collages i um create music i kind of like get myself in the mode yeah and then i figure out like what are they doing and then how can i like get there and so um you know you're breaking into so we finished off you're getting to the emerald city um and then now to start us off i need to get you to dr jekyll
So it was fun to do that. You have to be, as a dungeon master, you have to be so far ahead. So you have to know like, okay, well, we're starting here. I need to end up here. And so it's just everything that you're doing is leading us to that point. Right. And then I pick and choose quotes from both materials. So I have, if you listen to it, you'll hear quotes from. wizard of oz and then i think like you know the where in the last book that kind of leads into it yeah like i took from uh
There were tigers and elephants and bears and wolves and foxes and all the others in the natural history. And for a moment, Dorothy was afraid. So that's, you know. Where'd you drop that? On the outside of the door. There's like carvings of that outside of Jekyll's. Office. Oh, so you bridge them together that way. Yeah. And there's something else that I have Glinda say that's from, you know, the story. Do you have any other transitions? He mentioned Nathan mentioned.
going from frankenstein to moby dick and i remember that was really special for you and me because this is you and me like just starting this podcast and it was the first time where we had wrapped up an arc and we were launching into another one and we were always afraid that was like such an iconic first line
like call me Ishmael. I know. It's so good. That's great. Well, and it was just, that was the concept of the show. I think for you and me, it was like, if people like this, if we can do this well, people will understand like what this show is because it's not all these books in a vacuum. We're telling.
a larger story with these using these books to do it. We're like, man, I hope they like that. These will hopefully transition and flow into the next one. I thought that was so good. Can you remember any other?
transitions that went like so well yes uh so going from uh what we just had so going from the jungle book into the wonderful wizard of oz with marion as she gets you to safety the last thing she says is follow the yellow brick road oh god yeah that was so good so that uh oh god yellow brick road was so good Yeah. How did we transition to Gatsby? I can't remember how we transitioned to Gatsby or like Macbeth.
No, because a lot, even like with Gatsby, that one ended so well. Well, for Gatsby, you just ended the line so well. You wrapped up Gatsby so well. It was like... the born back ceaselessly into the past. Yes. That was, or born back ceaselessly into like Macbeth's palace or whatever. Something like that. Yeah. But so it's sometimes it's like if there's an iconic beginning or ending.
then I need to make sure to have that. Yeah. Or a character introduced. Something that's like, we're very much telephoning. Here's what's up. Pay attention. Yeah, pay attention. And with that too, it's... really just in the narrative um sorry in the narration how can i have lines from both works how can i um have some kind of new person or new place introduced
I just having all those elements try to tick off the box and then like writing and rewriting some stuff, but it's, it's fun to, to kind of like stretch fingers, crack, crack those knuckles and, you know, get to work on, on. Doing better narrative than L. Frank Baum. Another question. The bar solo. Yeah, the bar solo. It's in the dirt. Another question from M says,
Were there elements from any of the many adaptations, you know, the movie, the Wicked book, Wicked musical, The Wiz, that you wanted to incorporate? Or did you stick purely to the wonderful Wizard of Oz? Did you pull from anything else?
I didn't because I just wanted this to be about the book. I mean, Follow the Yellow Brick Road is more of a 1939 film famous line, even though there is a Yellow Brick Road in... the og work i didn't find anybody say follow the yellow brick road in such a way yeah you were never doing anything like popular you're gonna be popular no i didn't i didn't do wicked at all um because that is a completely different vibe and an excellent one but just like that's a fanfic itself yeah
Um, so no, I didn't blur too many references together. That'd be really complicated. There's some great adaptations of, of this work, as I mentioned, but I, I just kind of just kept it in the literary. And we also try to keep to like, what's, uh, uh,
public domain which those certainly are not exactly i mean it's so funny the timing i think i remember kimmy asked like man did you purposely time this out and i think it really was just freak we i had we have everything planned out the order in which
The whole thing's going to be, I mean, we're now, we have what, four works left? Four books left, I think, yeah. Yeah, and so that was already paced out that way. And the only, and I mentioned, there might be five if I kill one of you, but that's it. So. Yeah, it just so happened that... It timed out when Wicked was coming out, part one. That was so popular. It shows. There's something special about us. This is blessed as a show.
The last question from Seiko says, if a portal opened and dumped Penny, Bertram, and Awen in your living room, who would you hug first? I love this question so much. Um... I mean, I want to be contrarian and say... Yeah, you're the one who has... You're the dungeon master, so you love all three of us equally as your children. Oh, no. It would be... I would... Oh, what did you mean by that? I would hug the hedgehog.
I would hug Fezziwig. Because if Penny's there, then Fezziwig's in her front pocket. I would hug that baby first. But... You have the three main cast. And I can't say group hug? No. That's lame. I think if the three of them... popped out right now. Like knowing their journeys, knowing their history. And knowing where they are right now in this whole thing, I would hug Awin. Oh, really? I think we're going to say Penny. I don't think she'd be ready for it. I don't know.
especially if it's just from a random person like me, although I'd be like, I am your partial creator, then it... I think it would be more out of just like pride, out of very like the person who has most recently.
overcome a huge portion of their arc and is healing from past trauma and is doing a lot of the work and also just seems even though when we look at the chosen artwork for him, which he, it's so funny when, when I, when I think of him, you know, when he has his, his gravelly voice, you know, uh, well, well, Well, Mr. Bertram, you know, he sounds like this squishy Winnie the Pooh character. But then I look at the fan art or not the fan art, the chosen art, you know, the reference arts that.
Eren had for him. And he's just like this Adonis, like this elf, basically this Legolas looking dude. But I still, I would give, yeah, he seems squishy and needs that extra. That was a launching off point. I don't know if that's how I picture him in my mind. Especially after all the sausage rolls, I have had him.
Exactly. Feast upon. Clearly, I would hug Bertram. Duh. Because it's so easy because that's the character I'm embodying. My boy! It's the one I've spent the most time with. And... And... Again, like Baum, it's impossible not to have your own shit bleed into your creations. So Bertram is Adam in so many ways with his... idiosyncrasies and with his anxieties with his uh the way that he's annoyed by certain things the way he has self-doubt also and
covers that up, masks that with doing other things. Yeah, you can't help but have parts of your personality bleed into them. And so, yeah, in so many ways, Bertram is me. And so part of me would want to be like, I know, man. Obviously different, but there are some similarities of... of pains to a certain extent or personality types. He'd be the first person to give you a hug that needs to actually bend down. Exactly. You would feel so small. Wait, how tall is he? Is he seven foot?
I think you made him seven feet. I remember that was such a big talking point at the beginning when I instantly lost. Although I think like you lost some. Did you regain it? I think it was at Frankenstein. I lost a couple feet. I lost like two feet. Two feet? No, it wasn't that much, was it, bro? Geez, I thought you got down to like 610 or something.
It was something. But yeah, so you could feel small for the first time in your life. Exactly. And then also just you could pat him on the shoulder and say, there, there. There, there. There, there. There, there. Just like, what's his name? There, there. Pappy. Pappy. I was going to say Pip. The three of you have made characters that just I absolutely love. I would love to hug all of them. They're very well fleshed out. They have gone through some serious shit, but just...
you have them make realistic decisions for them that also make me very proud of them. I appreciate that. Thank you. Let's wrap this up with a game, shall we? This is for you. Yeah. And for you, dear listener. Tell us how you score on this quiz. So I was I was trying to do games. So I was going to try and bring that to the to the party. And yet again, I could not think of anything. And I mentioned it to Kate and she had the best idea.
She said, just like the wonderful Wizard of Oz has spawned so many fanfics and the musicals and things with Wicked having just come out. She was like, how about we do a quiz and I can read lyrics from different songs from musical adaptations based on... Or maybe even loosely, loosely based from a classic literature source. Yes. So I have 10 on here. Holy shit. And I told you, hey, think of like four or something. And of course I could not do that. No.
So I did 10. And I want to see if you can get, because I try to go a little obscure for some of these. Okay, let's see if I can get three. Three or four. Okay. Thanks for your vote of confidence. Three, you failed. Four, I love you. All right. Number one. And bonus points if you can tell us the musical name and the book that it's based off of. And possibly the author. Let's see if I can get a total of five then. Okay.
Wait, so now there's 20 points to have? Yeah, I've just upped it. You overachieved and then I got competitive. I want to know how many you can name. I'm going to try and not sing this. I'm going to try and just read this. Number one. And wait till I'm done. Don't interrupt me as I'm reading. Oh, okay. It is time for us all to decide who we are.
do we fight for the right to a knight at the opera now have you asked of yourselves what's the price you might pay is it simply a game for rich young boys to play the color of the world is changing day by day I have a few more things I can read that's going to give it away. Do you want the extra hint? Yes. Red. The blood of angry men. Black. The dark of ages past. Red.
A world about to dawn. Black. The night that ends at last. You thought that would give it away to me? That's like the popular part of the musical. Oh, God. Red, the blood of angry men. Black. I don't know how the rest of it goes. I mean, is it? That ain't Newsies. Oh, shoot. Is it the revolution in Paris one? Which is called what? Oh my God. You don't know the name of it? I feel like I know it. Oh, I know it. Oh my God, you actually know it, but you don't know the name of it.
The poor, the Les Miserables. There you go. Based off of Les Miserables by Victor Hugo. There you go. One for one so far. Two for one. No. Those are bonus points. number two something has changed within me something is not the same i'm through with playing by the rules of someone else's game too late for second guessing too late to go back to sleep It's time to trust my instincts, close my eyes and leap. I mean, is that...
Is that Wicked? Yep. Okay, so based off of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Well, based off of Wicked, based off of... Defying gravity. Yeah, exactly. Based on, based on, based on, based on. Based on, based on. Number three. Look at you crushing this so far. And that's where it ends. I have come here, hardly knowing the reason why. I tried to find a more obscure part. I knew you were gonna do this. I'll keep reading it.
In my mind, I've already imagined our bodies entwining, defenseless and silent. Oh, boy. And now I am here with you. No second thoughts. I've decided. Decided. Yeah, that would be Phantom of the Opera, based off of Phantom of the Opera by Gaston Leroux. Look at you crushing this already. All right, let's see if I can get you with this one.
because i would not have gotten this one fun fact ab and i both love family opera and then we figured that out when we were dating we're like you too uh so there have been multiple times where singing, belting in our car. We're like, our date night is just going to be singing through the entire fucking musical. This is what it is now. Number four. And when I grow up, when I grow up.
I will be brave enough to fight the creatures that you have to fight beneath the bed each night to be a grown-up. And when I grow up, I will have treats every day, and I'll play with things that mom pretends, that mom... that mums don't think are fun and i will wake up when the sun comes up and i will spend all day just lying in the sun but i won't burn cause i'll be all grown up when i grow up
I mean, is it Peter and the Starcatcher? Nope. Matilda. Oh, nice. By Roald Dahl. Roald Dahl. Roald Dahl. Roald Dahl. I bet you'll get this one. Five. if it should chance to be we should see some harder days empty larder days why grouse always a chance we'll meet some day to foot the bill then the drinks are on the house You have it yet? This next part, you're going to get it? No, not yet? Consider yourself our mate. We don't want to have no fuss.
For after some consideration, we can state, consider yourself one of us. You know what's sad is I can hear consider yourself. And I don't know what that's from. I'm pretty sure we saw it together at your high school. Oh my God. Oh, if that's the case, then Oliver. Yeah. Okay. Oliver based off of Oliver twist by Charles Dickens. Okay. Number six.
oh what's a jolly holiday with you bert gentlemen like you are a few though just a diamond in the rough bert underneath your blood is blue you'd never think of pressing your advantage forbearance is the hallmark of your creed A lady needn't fear when you are near. Your sweet gentility is crystal clear. Oh, it's a jolly holiday with you, Bert. A jolly, jolly holiday with you. Well, Bert, I don't have to worry about you getting handsy with me. Mary Poppins.
Mary Poppins. Mary Poppins. Possibly the most offensive English accent an American's ever done. Oh, what are you talking about? The Brits love Dick Van Dyke. Number seven. We've just been introduced. I do not know you well. But when the music started, something drew me to your side. So many men and girls are in each other's arms. It made me think we might be similarly occupied. Shall we dance?
on a bright cloud of music shall we fly shall we dance shall we then say good night and mean goodbye or perchance when the last little star has left the sky shall we still be together with our arms around each other. And shall you be my new romance? On the clear understanding that this kind of thing can happen, shall we dance? Shall we dance? Shall we dance? I don't know. The King and I. Oh. Do you know what that's based off of? Anna and the King? I think that's it. The King and I novel.
Yeah. Based on Margaret Landon's novel, Anna and the King of Siam. Woo. Margaret. One of my go-to NPC names. You're never going to get this one. Good luck. Okay. But you had to throw it in there. I've done it all for her. Put up each wall for her. Stoked and stoked the flame. Played a deadly game. I'll take any blame for her. Daisy. Where else would she go? I'll never take no for an answer. Daisy. She was always the one. The light is still green.
wonder what that could be this was a pity one i had for you and i was like i know oh shit i don't know if she's gonna get any of these oh you're like gas age there was some that was just like oh my god uh yeah great gatsby f scott fitzgerald
It was impossible finding when I was perusing the lyrics. I think it was a brand new musical that came like a year ago or something. Yep. We've seen some fun TikToks on it. Number nine. You're doing great, by the way. You're doing way better than I thought you would. Well, when you put your love on the line like that, now I got to... You got to work for it. Now I got to actually use my little brain. I gave you a lot for this one just because I actually kind of liked the writing of it. Okay.
i must be wise i must try to analyse each change in me everything i see how will it be will i see the world through different eyes like a warning light glimmering in red like crimson bloodshed Shimmering in red, beautiful and strange. See the colors change before my eyes. See how they dance and they sparkle like diamonds at night. Leading out of the darkness and into the light. And I just kept going because I liked it.
3.58 a.m. It is done. I have injected five centiliters of the newly fused formula. A slight feeling of euphoria. Lightheadedness. No noticeable behavioral differences. Now the die is cast. Nothing left to do. Time along. Time along can prove my theories. Time alone? Time along? Time alone. It must be time alone. What I copied says time along. It might have been a typo online. Time alone can prove my theories true. Show the world.
Dear God, what is this? I mean, I'm guessing Jekyll and Hyde. Okay. I did not know that there is a musical of... course there is i will say i think this is actually was on broadway at one point i did look up random musicals like there's a there's a moby dick musical but but yeah it's like we got to have like the broadway exactly yeah last one okay
the moments of happiness we had the experience but missed the meaning an approach to the meaning restores the experience in a different form beyond any meaning we can assign to happiness The past experience revived in the meaning is not the experience of one life only, but of many generations, not forgetting something that is probably quite ineffable. Moonlight, turn your face to the moonlight.
Let your memory lead you. Open up. Enter in. If you find there the meaning of what happiness is, then a new life will begin. Oh, I'm so happy you did that. Cats. I almost did. That's gotta be Cats by, oh God, T.S. Eliot? So, guy who wrote the series of poems about cats. I think it's T.S. Eliot. Cats musical book based on. This is me doing the last. I believe it's T.S. Eliot. Uh, yeah. Uh-huh. Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats. There we go.
I almost picked Jellicle Cats, where it's like, Jellicle Cats, Jellicle Cats, Jellicle, Jellicle Cats. I will say, though, those lyrics are insane. You were losing me. Like, I was like, oh my God. That's the only one I had that didn't have someone's crazy ass cat name in it or didn't have the word cats in it. And you still got it. Hey, bravo. Jenny any dots. You got like seven or eight. You crushed it.
That's why she is. Literature plus musicals. Sure. That's why she's the master teacher, ladies and gentlemen. If you played along at home, please reach out to us. Tell us how many you got. Yeah. Also tell us if there's many other good musicals based on classic literature we should know about that me and Kate can listen to and see. Broadway, off-Broadway, in your backyard, in your mind still.
Let's hear it. In your mind, write a musical for us. Write a little Man Man musical if you want. Oh my gosh. I'll be your number one fan. All right. We will voice it for you. Exactly. I will sing it. It'll be a one man show. Never mind. Just Bertram. Just me. You don't need Caitlin. Just me.
All right. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening to this stupid idiocy that we did for about the past hour and hour. Thank you for giving us that much of your life. We started off low. I hope it wasn't a waste for you. We started off low, but I will say we did go higher.
that waist high waist high may our show always aim for that we always aim waist high I mentioned it earlier, but if you want to become a patron and hear more dumb stuff like this, but also really good behind the scenes stuff. Get to talk to us, ask us questions, other benefits. Just go check out the link we have below in our description box to go to their Patreon. We really appreciate it. We are the indie of all indie shows. We really are just doing this.
because we love telling stories and we love classic literature and dnd and uh to build the little old man man fam that we have has been really really special And you all coming along on this journey with us has been really special. So thank you all so much for listening. And if you are able to help support our show, it would really mean the world. If you have any other questions or comments or anything else you just want to reach out to, you can always reach out to us.
I believe it's omamamshow at gmail.com. Or you can even go onto our website. We have a form fillable thing there. That's true, yeah. OMAMAM.com. I stopped with the Twitter nonsense and all that. Are we OMAMAM.com or OMAMAMshow.com? Oh, shit. I think we're both. It should just be... We'll have a link in the bottom. We'll have a link in the...
below too. I think we simplified it to omamm.com but Aaron was smart and also secured omammshow.com so either one you type into the search bar or anything like that it'll take you there. Two last things. If you're able to rate and review us again, those things go a long way for small indie shows like ours. You just click a couple stars, however much you love us.
If you write a line or two, we also, Caitlin will read your review in the mid-roll during the episodes. Yes, I will. I'll put a voice to it. Pro, I think pro and con. I think we had one recently that was like, meh, or something. And I'll still read it. We still will. Damn it. That's our promise to you. That's our pledge to you. Rate and review. And lastly, we say it time and time again.
We can only say so much about, listen to our show. There's so much out there vying for your time, but if you're someone's friend and you know someone who loves D&D, who loves friends hanging out, talking about classic literature and Dungeons and Dragons, being stupid together. having laughs together, please tell your friends about our show. That word of mouth is far and way beyond anything we can do ourselves here. So go tell your friends.
If you have a co-worker who randomly breaks into musical songs in the hallway, who's sitting in the stall right now next to you, and they're humming a show tune, as soon as you guys are out of those stalls... You mean the bathroom? Be like, have I got a show for you? The person who's blowing up the toilet next to you and whistling, whistling and jellicle cats. That monster. I want that monster on our show. And if you are that monster.
Just, I love you so much. We start our show with a belch and we end with toilet humor. Again, you know what you signed up for. Thank you all for listening. Waist high. Waist high, ladies and gentlemen. Anyways, we will see you all in the next arc, which will be, Caitlin? Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson. Yes, be there and be squared. The Fable and Folly Network, where fiction producers flourish. In the year 1889, there was nowhere in the world more exciting than London, England.
Three cheers for Inspector Lestrade and the bad boys of Baker Street themselves, Sherlock Holmes and Dr. John Watson! Sold! By Sherlock bloody homes of 221 B Baker Street. Well, with any luck, we'll get a new brutal murder any day now. God, I wish. It's truly shocking you haven't solved anything in five years. The boys are both out of town for some case about a dog in Dartmoor this weekend. Sincerely, Martha Hudson. London's number two detective team just became number one. Fox and Stallion.
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