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Hello and welcome to another episode of The Odd Lads podcast.
I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway, former Odd.
Lad's guest is very likely to be the next mayor of New York City.
That's right. So we interviewed Zora and Mumdanie. I think it was in early May and right after that. I'm not saying I'm not going to take credit for this, but right after that he really started to surge in the polls and he went on to win the Democratic nomination.
I think we think very very minor credits.
I'm sure it was a coincidence.
The thing actually that struck me after that episode was hearing from a lot of people who were basically like, I don't like any of his ideas at all, but I still like the guy, and I still found him
impressive and intelligent and very strong understanding of policy. And look, I don't think his victory is attributable to us, but I did think that was telling in the sense that a lot of people who maybe on paper shouldn't or wouldn't really like some of his views, didn't seem particularly threatened by him, which I thought was really interesting and may have contributed to his sort of extraordinary margin is extraordinary victory.
I do think what's interesting about this whole story is the tension between New York City as this hub of capitalism, this hub of business. You have a lot of money here, a lot of billionaires obviously with their own interests, and now you have this democratic socialist candidate who's proposing something a little bit new. Although some people would say we had something more similar to that in say the nineteen
fifties nineteen sixties New York. But that tension is what I find really fascinating right now.
Yeah, so we have to we have to learn more. I mean again in the run up to the election. Look, what are New York City's business financial elites thinking right now? What do they think of a possible I'm Donnie Merrilty. What do they think about New York City in general? All of this stuff, There's there's a lot to learn. This is going to be a rich vein of interesting stuff for us for a while.
We're going all New York local politics, I guess, But I do think it has national consequences.
Internet, so we should talk about it. We should definitely talk about anyway. I'm really excited. We do have, indeed the perfect guest to talk about how the city's business elite, billionaires, etc. Are thinking about the city, think about the election, the possibility of Donnie being the mayor. We're going to be
speaking with Kathy Wilde. She's the president and CEO of the Partnership for New York City, which is an organization, a business leadership organization here all kinds of major employers. If you read any article about Kathy in the media, described as sort of one of the ultimate power brokers of New York City.
Yeah, words like power brokers, power player comes up.
In every single one, and so truly the perfect guest. So, Kathy, thank you so much for coming on.
Oud lots, thank you for having me, Joe and.
To absolutely we're really excited. What do you just before we move on, describe what the Partnership for New York City is and what you basically do there.
The Partnership is business working in the interests of the city. It's not a chamber of commerce. It was organized after the city's nineteen seventy five physical crisis by David Rockefeller, who was then the chair of Chase Bank. And other CEOs of the major corporations that were not just businesses headquartered in New York, but were real citizens of New York and trustees of its hospitals and museums, and real
contributors to the city as philanthropists. So it is very much a business organization that is designed to tap the expertise and the influence of the business community to support New York City and to maintain it as the city of great economic opportunity.
What's the partnership's relationship like typically with the mayoral administration and are there examples where you've worked together to effectively do something or maybe change the path of policy.
Well, absolutely, the partnership's relationship to government is really as an intermediary between business and government, as I said, to provide expertise, to provide advice, to give feedback, really to be a resource more than an adversary with the local government, in particular local state government and some extent the federal government. When there are overriding issues that make a big impact on New York that are being considered in Washington.
When did Zoron come on the radar of the people that you talk to, of the CEOs, etc. In the like, was it a month before?
Was he?
Were they thinking about him at all? Three months before the election? I'm sort of curious, like when it may have flickered in their minds that the Democratic Party could nominate a socialist.
I would have to say that it was primary night about ten o'clock.
Really, it's incredible to me.
Well, I had forewarned them that it was a possibility, but I think Cromo had been a figure in their lives as Mario's son, as attorney general, as governor for twenty some years, and it was kind of a foregone conclusion, is the guy we know who's now running for mayor is going to be mayor? And especially after Mayor Adams announced he was not going to be in the Democratic primary, and so they had kind of zeroed in on accepting that it was going to be Cromo, and really no one had met zorun.
What is the mood like on primary night? Did everyone immediately go home and start looking up socialism on the internet on chat GPT?
Well, I would say hysteria would be a good word for shock. Was first shock first and what happened? And who is this person? And so I tried to provide some reassurance. We had for the past twenty years led efforts to bring congestion pricing to New York City to both manage traffic but to really make the city a more efficient place. Excess traffic congestion was costing the city twenty billion dollars a year with lost time, lost productivity, and what makes New York a great place to work
is the productive workforce. So we'd been an advocate of congestion pricing, and I had actually met Zoron in that context at the Rider's Alliance where it's a group of subway riders advocates, and had found him to be a
very smart, interesting young man. So I had known him, and then he reached out to me last September and said, I'd like to talk to you about my mayoral prospects when he was polling at one percent, and so I met him for coffee at the LPQ at eighty five Broad and we had a conversation, and I found him to be smart, and I took him seriously from then on.
HM. I'm impressed from his perspective that that early on he wanted to sort of build that connection or make that connection with you before you talk more about him. A friend of mine described you as a therapist to the New York City billionaires. They were hysterical on or they're experiencing hysteria on primary night. Did you feel like that was your role in that night? Did you feel like a therapist to the members of the partnership?
To provide reassurance to the business community, I mean, number one, to remind them that many of the things they want are most worried about from a Democratic Socialist candidate were things that he has absolutely no capacity to execute on. So, for example, raising corporate and income taxes is not something that the city or the mayor can do. Free buses is not something the mayor can do, and figuring out where you make up that eight hundred million in revenues.
So that was number one, reassuring them that we have a moderate governor who's watching out for business interests, who says she's not going to further raise taxes in New York, which is the highest tax city in the country and in most cases the world for both individual income tax and corporate tax. So that was number one, providing reassurance that as mayor, he would have an agenda. But there are a lot of checks and balances to work through in New York and it's not a unilateral post. Now.
That was more difficult with the real estate community because their concerns having to do with land use proceedings and approvals and construction permits, etc. That the mayor does control basically huge amount of control over that process. That is one thing that's local and real estate taxes where the mayor has significant influence. So it was more difficult with members of the real estate community, who after the primary quickly pivoted to remembering what a good friend Mayor Adams was.
So I want to talk more about the concerns of the business community, obviously, but before we do, I can't resist asking, when you first met zoron over coffee, what advice did you give him? What did you actually say to him about a mayor run.
Number One, I said that you can't lead New York City unless you have a constructive relationship with the Jewish community, because that was the most obvious source of concern that he seemed not able to address. That worried me a lot. Number Two, that the solution to affordability is not for government,
local government to spend more money. That the money that local government spends has to be accounted for that you need to raise taxes to support it, and ultimately that just ups the cost of living and the cost of doing business in New York and that all ends up
getting passed along to consumers. So the affordability question, which he was absolutely right to emphasize and emphasize from the beginning, that we've got to make New York more affordable to not just poor people, to the middle class, to those people who rent an apartment and now the average rents almost four thousand dollars a month. This is the big concern of employers, and I said, this is their number
one concern. How do we keep and retain young talent if they can't afford to rent an apartment in New York City? Big frustration. So that was kind of the conversation that we had, and he was open to that conversation and interested in learning. I mean, he impressed me right away as somebody who is interested in learning more, but who has has very strong opinions and is very committed. And I mean he's thirty three years old. In the world is his oyster.
Yeah, you mentioned the importance of relations with the Jewish community, and I saw I watched that. I didn't watch the whole debate, but I did watch the last debate and there was that question about which country you're going to visit first, and every candidate blood store On said they were going to visit Israel. He said he wasn't thinking
about is going to visit. Can you explain from the perspective of the business leaders new York City, why do they perceive that good relations with Israel is such an important aspect of the job of Why does the.
Mayor of New York have to have a foreign policy?
Well, their fears that he has a foreign policy. I don't think anybody thinks the Mayor of New York has to have a foreign policy. But he has a record of speaking out on issues that impact the Jewish community about Israel that they're very concerned about, and so their concern is not having. New York City has a long history of values that are very strong on supporting a diversity of people, are very tolerant of various religious beliefs,
and a long history with Israel. I mean, when Cornell Technion partnered on Technion's the university in Israel, that really led the Startup Nation movement in his and did so much to propel their economy. And they were selected under the Bloomberg administration to establish a first class engineering school in New York on Roosevelt Island, which has been very successful and is producing a great number of PhDs. And so at the time that they came in, Technioy came in,
they told me how they had been funded. Originally it was New York Jewish philanthropists that funded that effort. So there's this long term relationship. And obviously we have many people in New York who are family of Holocaust victims and survivors, and for whom the fact of a Jewish homeland a safe space for Jews around the world is of top area of importance. I think that that they are very concerned that the mayor of New York City respect and understand the importance of Israel and our long
term relationship, and that worries them a lot. And that's an issue that I think he has yet to resolve. I think it's difficult because he has strong support in the young Jewish community, and so I'm sure he feels that he's got a lot of people who are with him on the issues of protecting the rights of the Palestinians and concerns about that. So it's this is an area again where the fact that he ran a campaign and had built relationships that are a piece of New
York City. He expanded the electorate to folks who have not participated, but he really did not develop much of a relationship with the historic electorate. He was running against the democratic establishment, not with it, and so the communities where much of the Jewish population is concentrated were not communities he was necessarily reaching out to, except for the young people and the social media crowd, and that's not the people who are most concerned.
So on the topic of the campaign, I mean, this was one of the really surprising things of him winning. He had this sort of grassroots campaign which was very much focused on social media, lots of merchandise with really interesting designs. I've seen the hot girls for zor and T shirts. People wearing those around town, usually young women,
as you mentioned. And I'm curious, are any of the people you're speaking to perhaps thinking differently about campaign donators going forward if they donated billions of dollars for Cuomo and zorin.
Well, not billions but millions. Okay, yes, yes, I would say that for the most part, what I'm hearing is that people feel that they contributed to Cuomo and that they don't feel they got a very good campaign out
of it. They want to meet Zoron and I think they're making There are many, particularly in the real estate community, that are stepping up to transfer whatever donations they were making Cuomo to Eric Adams, if you will, the somebody that they know they can do business with, then who has been supportive of tremendously positive growth in the city from the nature of the pandemic and where our economy was,
where our real estate situation. I'm Eric Adams. It should not be ignored that he has his administration has led rezoning efforts and really changed the zoning code for the first time since nineteen sixty one. So he's made a tremendous investment in trying to begin the process of making it easier and less expensive to develop housing in the city and supported economic growth overall. So there was concern.
I mean, obviously he's the first mayor that's been indicted, and when he dropped out of the Democratic primary, I think that solidified most of the money going to Cuomo, but Eric is back in the general and in good form.
I noticed you said something. I think your first answer that the business elite had accepted Cuomo as who was going to be the nominee. Accepted, it does not sound the same as enthusiastically support. I hear that is sort of resigned.
Yeah, okay, status Cuomo.
Yeah, and so I'm curiously.
Come on, you have to laugh at that.
Good lie here, right, status quo. That's a good one.
Thank you, thank you.
That was good. But how did they feel actually about Cuomo? And also, like I know there's some question it's still unclear whether he's gonna run actively in November, but if they do coalesce around someone, does it definitely seem like it's going to be Adams so.
Far, I think yes, I think it's going to be Adams if and again, it is the real estate community that's most concerned. You understand that the financial industry in New York basically is prohibited by federal regulation sec IF in run other regulation from contributing to state and local candidates beyond a nominal amount of a few hundred dollars.
So they are not, for the most part, money players in state and local elections, which has really disadvantaged New York's business community, which represents like forty percent of our tax base, who can't participate in supporting candidates of their choice.
They could knock on doors like the Zorone volunteers did, they just can't donate gobs of money.
And that would be great, but not happening. Okay, most of them are beyond the door knocking age. But your question about Cuomo. Cuomo was Attorney General during the financial crisis and was not very friendly toward the financial industry and did not develop relationships that were very positive during his tenure as Attorney General with the business community. So
that was his job to be an enforcer. And during his term as governor he came in with a very strong agenda to try and get state spending under control and get taxes under control. But having made some of some real progress there on medicaid reform and pension reform, as the political wins changed, there wasn't that same relationship with the business community. So with the exception of real estate, where he was very pro growth, investing in infrastructure, supporting
real estate development. So I would say that he had relative enthusiasm in the real estate community, but not broadly based in the business community.
So on this note, you've emphasized a number of times that a lot of business leaders obviously want to talk to Zorin. They want to get in the room with him, and you are organizing, I believe, discussions between the business community and the mayoral candidate. I think next week we're recording this on let's see July ninth. How do you decide who gets to be in the room with Zorin?
Well, the first meeting we're doing and I set this up with Zorn He called me right after the election and said he wanted to establish those relationships, and I said, well, it's so we set up a meeting with the CEOs of the partnership that's on Tuesday, and so they'll be some will join virtually, but it's going to be mostly an in person one hundred and fifty maybe CEOs of major companies, major employers in the city who have never met him and will be for the first time getting
an opportunity. And that's going to be a conversation with our co chairs, Rob Speyer of Tishman Speyer and doctor Albert Borla of Pfizer and so they'll be having a conversation with Solorn and then we'll have some Q and A with our members, and so that's that's number one.
And then I'll come back next week, right, and I will follow up to this episode.
Interesting. Yes, I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to that conversation, but I think again it's an introduction and I have full confidence as you know having met him, Zorn is pretty good at presenting himself and very fast in terms of his thoughtful responses on issues. So I'm looking forward to that because it'll save me a lot of time
reassuring him that he's not the devil. He's okay. And then on Wednesday, Kevin Ryan, who is kind of the father of Silicon Ali Ali Corp. Is the name of his corporation, has a prolific history of creating tech companies in New York. Kevin is going to moderate a conversation with him which will be heavily tech focused, more entrepreneurs
than corporate finance types. So that'll be on Wednesday, and then I should add that on Thursday, we'll be doing breakfast with Mayor Eric Adams and speaking to him about his path forward. And as I said, there's been a lot of support for the policies that Eric Adams has he started out as mayor. I had the same conversation with Eric. I'm a Brooklyn person, so I've known Eric for many years and most recently in his capacity as Brooklyn Boro President. But when we started out, he didn't
know anybody in the New York business community either. But he introduced himself as saying, my number one priority is public safety, and my number two priority is a thriving economy. And I'm with you, and having lived through eight years of Bill Deblasio as mayor, who had nothing to do or to say to them except your awful people. And as Jamie Diamond famously said, for eight years, I never got a call from Bill Deblasio when he was mayor
and have never had a conversation with him. So Eric immediately reversed the Deblasio big business is bad for New York, and Eric said, I want wealthy people in New York. I want big business in New York. So I don't expect that from Zoran next week. I think that he's not going to have the same unbridled enthusiasm for billionaires, but I do expect that he will come across as a responsible person who's thinking seriously and is open to learning,
which is most important to listening and learning. And I think that that the number one concern is, is this a dogmatic, ideological person who is just going is going to be not interested in what we can contribute to the city or what employers contribute.
You mentioned Kevin Ryan. I used to work for Business Insider, which was one of the Ali Corp companies, so I'm a beneficiary of his New York City investments. You know, when the night of the primary, I got some random messages online. They're like, oh, are you going to leave New York City. I'm never gonna leave New York City, Like it's the best city in the world, obviously, but you know, people do leave, And in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two, people pretended to think that Miami
was a better option for them. I think a bunch of them came back or they spent just the you know, minimum amount of time there so they could you know, qualify for their local taxes, et cetera. In your view or in the view of the employers of New York City, what are the threats the substance of threats that would say, Okay, this would meaningfully change the desirability of doing business in this town.
Number One is public safety, and that's again they've appreciated, particularly under Commissioner Tish and original and Er Commissionery Key chance Sewell, they have appreciated that the Atoms administration has focused on public safety and that we're.
That's more important things like taxes for them.
Yes, absolutely, because the whole basis of business being here is the talent pool. And if talent doesn't want to be here, if they're scared to leave it be in New York City. If they're worried to go on the subway because they might get mugged or pushed in front of a train, that's the worst thing that could happen to New York. So and importantly, Zoran has acknowledged that keeping New York a destination for talent is a priority for him. So I think that message is very important.
So the public safety number one. And then, as I said before, affordable housing and affordability that again allows talent to be here and doesn't have a premium cost. I mean already in most sectors New York City salaries have a twenty percent premium at least over if you're going to locate in Texas or Florida or whatever. When it gets higher than that, it becomes hard to explain to shareholders why you're here and why you're creating jobs here.
So that's the other consideration. So it's really having a safe city and having an affordable city are the top criteria, And at least in terms of having an affordable city, they've got common cause with Zorin's campaign.
This is what I was going to ask you. Are there any areas of I guess overlap or agreement between Zorn's agenda and the concerns or the desires of the business community.
Yeah, as I mentioned, one of the big questions that'll come up next week. Probably the first question that will come up is what is your commitment to public safety? You know, symbolically, would you keep Jesse Tish's police commissioner, And she certainly won't stay if he's going to defund the police because she's looking for more officers, more resources to really make sure that we stay the safest city
in America and the world. Hopefully, So that'll be public safety, and then on affordability, it'll be hoping that they can communicate that just having city government increase its budget does not improve affordability. We've got to be more creative than that.
What do you see as the main constraints to affordability? What do you from just from your first petive? How many years did they were they debating about putting up some houses at the Elizabeth Street garden like these The process take forevers But like I know, it's like the most hot button topic in the world. But just broadly, what do you perceive is the main constraints towards making rent cheaper?
In New York City, thirty percent of rent is real estate taxes in rent regulated buildings, So government spending that depends on real estate taxes, that's where the majority of the city revenues come from, is driving high rents. Uh, It's not that developers and these older rent regulated buildings are making a huge profit. It's that their costs have gone up, their water bills, et cetera. All these are on water and sewer. These are under control of the city.
So there are things government can do very quickly to reduce costs.
As an example, what about just sheer volume of housing production. Because right in the end, like most people. Okay, rent is very expensive. It's also scarce, and that contributes to the fact that rent prices go up and that landlords can collect a lot of rent. Do you think there are meaningful levers that could be pulled to rapidly increase the pace and which we build, whether it's affordable housing or market rate housing, etc. What would you identify?
Absolutely Again, it's reducing government bureaucracy. Right now, I'm on the City Charter Revision Commission, which is going to put resolutions before the public I believe in November, to look at how we can cut down on the time and cost associated with development approvals, especially for smaller projects. The other thing I want to mention that affects the cost of construction very much, but also affects all other costs is the cost of litigation passed along to consumers through
the high insurance costs. We have the highest claims and settlements. We have the highest degree of litigation in the country. It's almost impossible to get anything through the legislature that doesn't include a private right of action. The trial lawyers are the strongest lobby in Albany also have a lot of influence within the city and we have to get down our litigation costs. Our insurance costs are substantially higher
than anywhere else in the country. Our curR insurance costs are forty nine percent higher than the average in the country. Our health insurance costs are twelve percent higher. These are all costs that we could absolutely contain in control, and the city, which is basically self insured, ends up paying this out of pockets with a pee billions of dollars a year in medical mailpractice.
In other government, a lot of free buses.
That would fund a lot of free busses.
Aren't the higher litigation costs. Aren't they just a reflection of I guess the higher cost of living and materials.
No, they're a reflection of a system where our jury awards are much higher than any place else. They call them nuclear awards. No, it's all because of laws. We have one law in the books in Albany. It's part of the labor law was passed one hundred years ago, and it was passed before we had workers' compensation and other protections for construction workers. If you have a gravity related injury, and many of these are staged, that one law can add five to seven percent to the cost
of construction, just that one law. And so when we say why does it cost a million dollars to produce a two bedroom and rental apartment in New York? To build it? When you look at it, you'll see that a big chunk of that is the result of the litigation, insurance costs, and the time that it takes to get anything done, the carrying costs for the time.
I want to ask a sort of social question, given your role as therapists to the wealthy, But I got a sense sometimes that there is a feeling out there among maybe a lot of people that billionaires are less charitable than they once were, certainly going back to earlier in the century perhaps, and I think back to like Rockefeller, who you know or knew and worked with, and him bailing out the city in the nineteen seventies, Like that was an act where he decided, I am going to
spend money in order to save New York and contribute to New York's future.
Is that an.
Accurate portrayal of billionaires nowadays? Are they less engaged in overall society?
Well, in many cases, the family wealth, like in the Rockefeller family, has diversified, so you don't have one person who is as wealthy. It's spread out. But the commitment to New York, to its hospitals, it's museums, its universities, its institutions. We have by far the most philanthropic city in the world. I get visitors from all over the world, from Paris, from London, from la from San Francisco, all of whom say, how does New York create a culture
which is so giving, which is so generous? And the Rockefellers and the Astors and any of the families that you know, the key families of New York did contribute to this. But then you saw the tributes to Leonard Latter who died a few weeks ago. If they were all differ from every nonprofit institution, the generosity of New Yorkers is huge. The label billionaire is often attached to
self promoters who are promoting themselves as billionaires. Yeah, I would distinguish that none of the people that I'm talking about want to be known or proclaim themselves or position themselves as billionaires.
Yeah, that definitely resonates. I want to go back to something you know. You mentioned the generational divide among New York City's Jewish community and the idea that the under forty crowd may have a very different perception of the relationship that New York City should have about the state
of Israel or state of Israel period. And you also mentioned that you know, for many of the people that you work with, it only on them that Socialists could be the Democratic nominee at ten pm on election night, which makes me wonder, like how plugged they are in because certainly, in at least the month prior to the election, it became very obvious to me that this was like a very real possibility that he could win. Like, is there a persistent problem of sort of like generational awareness?
And I'm thinking also about affordability and housing and some of these other issues where I don't want to say like out of touch, but I guess out of touch between the business elites, the CEOs, et cetera, and what's on the mind of younger voters period, across a range of issues.
I think that's a very fair comment. Most of the mature business world is not living on social media, so they're well, they're not They're not plugged into that world, and that's that's a great contributor to the generational divide. I mean I still read a paper, a real paper,
and that's a differentiator. And the other thing is that the globalization of the economy has meant I mean New York is a center of world industry leadership and they are focused and spending their life traveling all over the world. So the fact that we're a headquarters city in all these diverse sectors in passion and media, and it means that the focus is global rather than local. Politically, especially the focus is Washington, which is where most of the
regulatory activity is coming from, not local. City and state are sidelines compared. So it's just the nature of our changing economy over the last fifty years, which has gone from being a local fifty years ago industrial economy to being a service economy to today being a global digitally and all of that means that the attention of business leadership has been largely externally focused on the world business, world markets, and on Washington. That just there's only so
many hours in a day. What we try and do with the partnership is synthesized for those global leaders what's happening locally and who's who and what's what. That's what we're doing with regard to the mayor election now is trying to bring them into the conversation at a point where they're taking it seriously and they have to prioritize it. But these are people who are running global businesses and that's the whole that's what's changed. It's not anything else,
but the focus of attention has to be global. And well, I would just mention, because we sit here in Bloomberg Podcast world, that Mike Bloomberg changed that when he was mayor. He brought the attention of our global leaders back to New York, which was extremely useful. I started as CEO of the partnership in two thousand, right before two thousand and one, before Mike was elected, and I took advantage of re engaging you. If you went to a cocktail party in New York that Mike Bloomberg is going to
be at, you had to talk New York. And he was a thought leader. He was the leading philanthropist when people ask me who replaced David Rockefeller as the leading philanthropist, and he was Mike Bloomberg.
Simple.
I have to do the disclaimer here, which is, of course, Bloomberg News Bloomberg Media is part of Bloomberg LP, which is owned by Mike Bloomberg.
So we didn't tell our guests to see jobdives as the.
No, we did not.
I just have this isn't the first time I've said it.
Okay, I just have one more question, which is, have you noticed or seen at all I guess moments of introspection among the business community, this idea that like, oh, maybe we miss something about Zoren, Maybe we missed why he's resonating so much in the city. Maybe we should start doing something different, Maybe we need to, you know,
actually build more housing or lower rents or whatever. Or are they still committed very much to this, not the status quomo, but the Eric Adams status quo and they want him to win again.
Distinguishing between the real estate community that sees the potential of an existential threat to private development putting that aside. In terms of the general business community. I think your point that they're feeling a little out of touch with what's been happening on the ground and they want to plug in. They are really interested in me, and we've had tremendous interest in meeting Zorn speaking with him. He's made calls to some business what.
Do they say after like the after those phone calls, because they've you know, you mentioned the meetings that are coming up, but some have already they've already chatted like what is what? What is their response?
Their response is that he is you know, they said, he's the politician of a generation. I mean, he's a generational figure. They're they're impressed after a ten minute phone call with him because he is he's a very effective communicator and he listens on you know, business leaders like to be listened to.
Kathy Wilde, that was fantastic. So glad we made this happen. And like I said, maybe we'll maybe we'll have you back at some fun or would love to have you back on it.
Thank you.
Nice to be here, Tracy. I really like that conversation. There was a lot to pull from this idea. There are a number of things. This idea that the CEOs who are headquartered here in New York City, just by the nature of the changing economy, are less New York City focused themselves, to me, is like something I hadn't really thought about but makes a lot of sense to me.
Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. The other interesting point that Kathy brought up was I guess the divergence between you know, Wall Street CEOs and perhaps other businesses versus real estate, which really seems to be freaking out about the prospects of Mumdani mayorship.
Yeah.
No, that's really interesting, this idea that it's not monolithic. I said it in the intro, or I said it early on. You know, I think a lot of people who are on paper they're like, well, you look down the list of his policies. Maybe not something that they're too into, but the fact that they don't like find him to be threatening or they don't find him to be repellent in some way. And so it's striking that
already he's having these conversations. Also, like, it is just striking to me that you know, people see him as you know, potentially this extremely ideological person, and yet from the very beginning of his campaign in September was reaching out to Kathy and like making these connections. I mean, it was a really savvy campaign.
Well, the other thing on that note, First of all, I'm really fascinated to see whether or not this starts to change campaign finance and the way it works, because again Cuomo had all the money. Yeah, exactly. And the other thing I'm really interested in is, Okay, the business community, Kathy was saying one of their primary concerns is attracting talent into the city. Well, you know that talent, presumably
a lot of it is young. There's probably a large portion in there that is, you know, of a progressive bent, and so a candidate like Zoraen might appeal to them and actually bring more peace into the city.
So it's also interesting, I mean, the safety and crime thing is the number one thing right that would cause people to leave because and again there's a lot more talk about leaving New York City though there is actually leaving New York City. And it is true that I think a lot of those people who thought they were going to DeCamp to Miami during the post pandemic period of comeback for obvious for obvious reasons. But it's interesting that it's not even like any of the economic stuff.
It's not the socialism stuff. It's just the basic safety stuff. And there is I know, there's a lot of the question about whether Mamdani, if he wins, will keep the police commissioner. The crime stats have improved quite a bit in recent years. The idea that this is like the really big thing more than you know, the rent freeze or taxes or anything else. I think it's just going to be an interesting executive question for Mamdani.
Lots of interesting questions thrown up by this whole election. Shall we leave it there for now?
Sure, let's leave it.
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