All right, welcome to the Ocean Water Podcast Day. This is a voice for Indigenous water rights. I have my good friend Cody Bren on here today. Cody and his family moved out with Ashley Jennings and her family out to the Red Rock area in 2015 and helped start Village Church. It's doing wonderfully well. They have a vision of five by five by five that's starting five new works in five new zip codes in five years. Really exciting.
And then on a personal note, you've just been, it's really interesting how we met. I was encouraged to reach out for some potential partners in regards to ocean water and a very good friend of mine that I've known since 2012, Rick Dunn, encouraged me to call you and I did. I called you on a Thursday and in that phone call, I found out that you were actually going to be six and a half miles from where I live the following day.
And then I actually met you the next day and then you invited me to a dinner and then I met a bunch of new people. So we just hit the ground running. Yeah, absolutely. Just thanks so much. And you've just been such a good friend to Maria and I in the last year. Thank you brother for your time today. Oh, my pleasure. Yeah. So tell everybody when you're home, what do you like to eat? Where do you go and what do you get?
Wow. Well, you know, we're in Southern Arizona and so Mexican is the name of the game, you know, and so there's some great Mexican places out here. My favorite is called the Guadalajara Grill and they have, I love music and so they have a live mariachi band that walks around and it's just a really cool atmosphere and that's my personal favorite. But it's also probably like 35, 40 miles away from where we live because we're in the middle of nowhere.
So eating out is a luxury most of the time because we got to travel. McDonald's is, you know, 25 minutes away, the nearest one, you know. So it's good for me though. Eating out regularly would be a bad choice for me personally. So lots of good food at home. My wife's a great cook and baker and stuff. So yeah. Oh, that's great, man. So tell us, for those of you who are like going to meet you for the first time today, tell us what are you doing now and how did you get into it?
Yeah, well, I am, you know, church planter and, you know, one of, you know, of course, we love pastoring a church. Ashley and I co-pastor and so we're big proponents of just partnership, you know, not just co-pastoring in and of itself. You know, we're huge proponents of that, of course, that model, but just partnership and not going it alone. You know, we have just seen a lot of pastors go through this kind of a thing alone.
And I just can't imagine even this season, you know, dealing with coronavirus and all of the, you know, the tragedies that have been happening recently in Mont Arbery, Floyd George and stuff, like, and trying to navigate that stuff on your own would just be so difficult. And so, you know, I'm so thankful for partnerships in my life, so thankful for a co-pastor that we can navigate this stuff together.
And so, you know, that's a big passion of mine for sure is just trying to be a partner for other people as well, you know. And so that kind of leads into, you know, Ashley and I also have a role. We are the district directors of Church Multiplication for the Pacific Southwest District of the Wesleyan Church, which is the longest title, I think, ever, right? But we really love that role. And it's just kind of, it helps us meet awesome people with kindred spirits.
And we get to talk our passion, which is planting churches and seeing the kingdom grow, right? And so that's kind of our life. That's our life right now. And that's, you know, we're just always looking for the next place that God wants to move and that He's asking us to move into, you know. And so that's, yeah, that's where we're at right now. That's my life, yeah, in ministry anyway. Yeah, you did a great job. I mean, I did give you some great feedback.
I think there's a wonderful culture of encouraging people to start things and providing a culture to do that. Someone that gets behind someone's ideas and empowers them and listens and how do we come alongside. And it's been, I would say, rhetoric free and cliche free and actually grounded in some really good stuff that actually helps add fuel to what people are trying to do. A lot of times people use the language, but they don't have any other culture.
But what I love is you guys have that culture. It's really exciting. It's really fun. So glad to hear that, man. That means a lot. Yeah, that's awesome. I told Phil that, told you that, and told Ed that, and told everybody that. And that's a beautiful thing because like, you know, when I have lunch today with my friend, Speed, who's 23, you know, I'm able to invite him into that. You know, when I talk to my other friend, another guy who's 23, I'm able to invite him into that.
And that's the power of having a great culture. You know, you're able to invite people into something without it being weird. Yeah. Kudos, brother. You're killing it. So what would current Cody say to 20 year old Cody? Oh, man. A lot. Yeah. Boy, I think the first thing honestly would be just be yourself. You know, be who God made you to be. Stop trying to be somebody else. Stop trying to pretend that you're something that you're not.
You know, I felt a lot of pressure for a long time to be somebody I wasn't. And when I finally started coming out of that, I had to it took a long time for me to figure out who I was, who God made me to be, you know, and not who I was trying to copy, you know. And, and man, I wish I would have figured that out sooner. I'm so thankful that God got my attention enough to figure it out. You know, now I'm still you know, I'm still working on that. You know, I'm not I'm not arrived.
I haven't arrived there by any means. But, but man, that's a big one for me is just learn who you are. Be confident in the giftings and the and who God made you to be specifically and just be that, you know, like, you know, I hear a lot of times people talk about and I used to talk about wearing hats, you know, like all these different hats that we wear. And that's kind of a been a huge lesson for me is that I don't need to wear different hats.
You know, I'm I'm I'm supposed to just be Cody, because God created Cody, you know. And anyway, that's that's a big one for me. You know. Yeah, I'd say that's probably the most important one that I've learned, honestly, since since my 20s, you know, and I mean, that and of course, figure out trust the Holy Spirit, ultimately, like, learn how to learn how to just trust Him and stop.
Stop trying to do things on your own, you know, on your own power, your own ability, like that surrender thing, you know, that we all we all work towards and stuff. But I wish I would have figured that out a lot earlier to just surrendering to the Holy Spirit and trusting that, you know, he's he's going to go through every time, you know, anyway.
You know, I always said about being yourself, you know, one of the things that you and I have both have in common is we're both we're both small town guys. I'm a small town beach person slash small village person. That's what I eat, sleep and drink. You're a small town desert guy. We have an affinity for for smaller groups of people, smaller areas. And there's there's a beauty in that. And it's it's wonderful when you find the thing that you really love and you really click with.
There's such a there's so much grace, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day, it's kind of like you find like it takes a lot of kind of find like your race, like kind of what you're supposed to do. And then you find your pace, you find how you're going to run like how how you run, you know, your race and your pace, that's where you get God's grace for your life, where God comes up where you kind of develop this walk with the Lord and think you start to see fruit.
A lot of good comes out of this. Those are just super wise words. So what are you what are you curious about these days? What are you interested in? You know how you know how it is as a leader. That's a really important thing to have. You know, what are you curious about these days? Yeah. Wow. That's a that's a great question.
You know, you know, Ashley and I like have a lot of conversations about, you know, bringing up the next generation, you know, like and it's funny because I you know, I just had a recent realization, you know, I just turned 35 and that it was a big number for me, you know, like realizing that and that I'm not the young young kid anymore. I'm not the new kid on the block, you know, like and so, you know, I've always tried to, you know, raise up leaders and have that as a mentality.
But now there's like an urgency to it that I never really had before. Just a realization like, man, my time in ministry is not long, you know, it's not going to be this super long time. And so Ashley and I talk often about like how to really properly believe and raise up new leaders while not putting expectations on them that they don't deserve.
Yeah. You know, that's that's kind of right now where I'm at with that is just really figuring out how to how to not put expectations that I've had for myself on other like new leaders, you know, and to let them be them, you know, and make sure that I'm not perpetuating what I got caught in.
You know, like, you know, I want to make sure that, you know, I'm helping people become who God's made them to be, not who not who I think they need to be based on these rubrics and these lessons and these nine week courses and all that stuff, you know. And so I don't know if that answers your question well, but that's what's been on my mind a lot lately is just how to do that. Well, you know, in this season, in this culture, you know, anyway. No, you did.
You know, there's something that should be on the radar of every person whose leader is people that people that are coming up. You know, I get that. That's just front and center, especially for for younger people who really want to make a difference, but don't want to waste their time on people that are going to patronize them. Yes. And not treat them like a real leader and not give them any autonomy and not give them any any empowerment.
And then and then people in the religious world wonder why. Well, it's like when you treat people like they're idiots, how do you expect not to have any leaders? You don't get to do both. Not if you want real leaders, you have to, you know, so that I love that. I resonate with that. I'm really glad you said that something that's should constantly be at the front of our minds.
So what's something in the last 12 months that maybe you've you have you failed that part of, you know, part of being a leader is the ability to reflect in in the self aware. So what's you know, what's something you feel like you could have could have done differently? Taking care of myself, you know, in the last 12 months, you know, I you know, this whatever this is like a I had a back injury and and then I developed into like a sciatic issue and stuff.
And and that was I think a lot of that was on me, you know, not not taking my not taking care of myself the way I need to. You know, I I kind of grew up with this mentality of needing to be he man and like, you know, I'd be the strongest one in the room. And like, you know, I'm never going to ask for help asking for help.
I failed at that over and over and over again, asking for help in my life and even just like simple things like lifting a heavy object, you know, like and so that that has been a big failure for me for sure. And that has caused, you know, I'm thankful that I'm learning that lesson in this season where, you know, where everything's kind of paused in this new way of doing things. And, you know, we're not meeting in person and there's not as much physical things that I'm I have an option to do.
And so it's a good time for me to learn this lesson. And and honestly, like every time I deal with the pain, you know, I get frustrated at it right away. But then I'm like, you know what? I asked for this. I asked for God to keep growing me. I asked for him to show me where I'm weak and to and to to build me up to who I need to be for the future. And man, it's been a really hard lesson, but I'm really thankful for it, you know, and and that realization that I have to do a better job.
If I want to be a better leader, I have to do a better job of taking care of me. You know, I've I've I've done that spiritually and I've done that mentally, you know, counseling and having mentors and stuff. But but physically, I haven't been great at that. And so this has been a good season of God teaching me that. Yeah. Well, I love the humility, man. I love it. I appreciate it.
Marie and I, you know, we had we have made a meal on Sunday and then we watched my my message and we got done and I shared something that I got out of it. And then my wife said to me, she said, Wow, you you really need to listen to your own message. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And we talked about it for 45 minutes for 45 minutes. And there were three or four things that was wow, you're absolutely right.
And we we prayed and it ended up being a really powerful time, even though it was just it was just myself and my wife and Aubrey this week because of the way things have been with this pandemic. But I love the humility. I think I think when we're when we keep it in the front of our mind, you know, how do we lead ourselves? You know, that's what I heard from you. You know, you're like you. And I asked the question, hey, what's something you failed at?
You took it directly to your own responsibility for yourself as a leader. And to me, you know, that's what makes the best leaders. So I appreciate that, brother. I appreciate the humility. I'm right there with you. It's like, what do I need to work on, man? Let's go. And then it's like, man, should I have prayed that I didn't realize this is what it was going to be? So that's the what comes.
But it's like it just you know, you have to get through these seasons of God teaching you lessons with gratitude. And if you have any other mindset about it, it's man, you're just going to delve into such hopelessness, you know, like and taking care of yourself is such a you know, I just look at you know, I don't know if you saw the lead singer and guitar player for Hawk Nelson. I don't know if you're familiar with the band Hawk Nelson, but they're a fairly popular, well known Christian band.
And he just he just announced yesterday that he no longer believes in God. And you know, he was just posting, you know, all about, you know, his struggles and stuff. And it just you know, it just grieved me that like, you know, he's on People in People magazine and ABC News is picking up the story of this, you know, you know, big time Christian musician that doesn't know no longer believes in God.
And like, it's just so sad because his message about Jesus was and hope was never picked up that way. And you know, that's, I just I just grieved because he also said like, I'm open, I'm remaining open, I'm not closed off, but I'm just struggling. And I'm always kind of just stepping down from all that. And it just grieved me that like, you know, that was his platform. Now is a message of hopelessness.
And after he dedicated such a huge portion of his life to trying that, you know, to just to spread Jesus, but now like what he's going to be known for is that and if he ever comes back around Jesus, I just grieve for him as how much he'll hurt. You know, that that was such a huge message for him. And nobody's going to pick up the story about him coming back to Jesus. You know what I mean?
Nobody's going to come back to that and that again, that's a self care thing, you know, and we as leaders in the in the public eye, no matter what level you're at, right? You know, you have to be so careful to be taking care of yourself again, and to have people in your life that can help you work through those questions so that you don't have this big public meltdown all of a sudden, because, you know, being a leader is lonely. You know, we see that all the time.
It can be such a lonely thing because you just you feel like nobody can understand and you feel like you have to be this lighthouse of hope for the world. And so if there's something broken in me, then what's that sand of the world, you know? And so we feel like we have to put on the show so often. And so that just grieves me when you see that, like, you know, who was around him? You know, who was in his life? You know, asking just, hey, how are you?
And actually meaning that, you know, and that's a thing that I think, as Christians, we too often assume that our Christian brothers and sisters in general, but also especially in leadership that we just assume, oh, they're they're OK. They're doing fine, right? They know they know all the answers to the questions. I go to them for advice, right? So I'm sure they're they're doing fine, you know, and it's just a question that we we don't ask enough.
And that would prevent, I think, a lot of these public moments that just, you know, grieve us so much. I think it's I think it's very hard to reconcile. Celebrityism and servanthood is very, very hard to there to post their paradox. So you know, navigating. You know, that's a very hard thing for people to figure out, you know, because the culture that the culture that wants to put people on a pedestal is very, very unhealthy.
And it's actually the exact opposite qualities that help you actually grow, you know. Yeah. You self aware. Choosing to be humble and and choosing to be humble and self aware is is the hard work. Right. Absolutely. That's great. You know, so that's what we're talking about today. This is a good stuff. The good stuff is stuff we're talking about here where you keep it real and keep it close and keep it personal. That's good, man.
So we'll take a little bit of a right here, a little bit of a right turn. Anna, what is your what is your understanding of the world, what's happened in the world with water? Well, you know what? It's funny because like I've learned so much more about that. Just knowing you, you know, to be honest, like, you know, I, you know, I lived in California for eight years and so droughts and the understanding that like, you know, water is a finite resource.
Like really became a reality, you know, came came into my head at all, you know, to be honest, like while living in California and just realizing, you know, I moved out of there before all of the really bad wildfires hit. But even in Arizona, you know, there's there's talks of mega droughts and all these things. And so really only in the last couple of years. I mean, well, I realize it then.
But, you know, in the last couple of years and knowing you just realizing how much of a worldwide issue it is, you know, and how many people are without it. And to be honest, like, that's why I, you know, that's why your vision for ocean water is so compelling to me personally. And you know, I tell everybody about you, you know, because of it's such an awesome, powerful vision of using something as, you know, the world understands their need for water. Right.
And sometimes that that's we have to have water to survive. Right. But then so to use that as a method of going and practically meeting needs in the world all over the world. Right. But then, you know, always injecting kind of using using that need for water as a platform to be able to build a church and to and to lead people to the living water of Jesus is just the coolest thing to me, man. I just love I just love it so much.
And so and so yeah, I mean, but but before you, I didn't have like a great grasp of like, you know, the kind of dire state of a lot of a lot of countries in the world, including the U.S. right now. So yeah. Yeah. You know, we we mentioned earlier about about passing the torch. And one of the things that I'm I'm excited about as we head into year two for ocean water is starting to to mobilize young people for this purpose.
People coming out of high school, people that are in college and taking some of the leadership stuff in and taking it away. I think there's one of my observations is just been how how how bored and and disinterested people coming up are with traditional institutionalized church. There's something very compelling if you're young and you think about traveling the world, solving a problem and then putting your leadership to the test instead of talking about it and quoting cute quotes on Instagram.
You can actually put your leadership to the test. You get your hands and feet dirty, actually leading something. That's a much more compelling case for someone's adventure and leadership and solving a real need. And then taking the gospel to get to churches and places where they don't even happen. So I'm really very I have a written front and center as things I'm great about.
And you know, it all starts with prayer, you know, we get with good ideas or a dime a dozen, something God's in and that all starts with, you know, that all starts with a lot of prayer and a lot of conversation and trying to try and do things. So it's been fun to be thinking about that. Yeah, yeah. I also just want to say thank you. How we met was I just laugh. I mean, I literally I met you two days in the starting ocean. Yeah, two days. I didn't realize that.
And I said this before I said it again, I did not want to leave Saddleback. I get along wonderfully with Kurt Johnson. I like love Pastor Rick. My wife says too much. And I got like cried out of that place. And then I liquidated my retirement. I went all in and I met you two days later. And so I want to say thank you to you because what I have found is that God always brings the right people at the right time. And but you don't get to meet the right people until you take the step.
Yeah. You got to take the you have to take this step of risk and then and then it happens. Yeah. Easier to tell the story later. Yeah, yes, absolutely. Yeah, harder, harder to harder to harder to tell. And it's been wonderful. So I just want to thank you for you have been a really great friend to me in the last year. So I appreciate it. It's been my it's been my honor. I've gotten so much out of getting to know you as well. So I'm just so pumped that we get to work side by side.
You know, it's it's it's an awesome thing. Yeah. Awesome, man. Well, we'll have to do this again. You've got a lot to share. And thank you for your time that any last any last words, man, anything anything we need to hear from you, bro? I mean, always just, you know, in this season right now, like there's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of fear. There's a lot of anger, hatred going around.
And like, we just just keep being the light of Jesus, you know, like keep loving people, keep showing that love and compassion that only can come from Jesus. And that's what's going to get us through all this. And yeah, just that's my prayer for myself. My prayer for everybody is let's just let's just show the world who Jesus is in this time. You know, it's such a such a great opportunity. You know, yeah. Well, thank you, brother. Thanks for your time, man. Thanks, Ryan. Love you, dude.
And have a good rest of the day, bro. All right. You too. Yes.