¶ Leading Yourself and Finding Your Path
This book is all about how do you lead yourself , and you got to start with yourself first , because I cannot . You know how I show up .
Each day I choose how I'm gonna show up and in fact one of my clients said they have a little post-it note that they put just Outside their garage door before they leave the house and it says how am I gonna show up today ? And I wish people would ask themselves that question before they start their day how am I gonna show up today ?
The final episode . We've made it . Caroline , we're ready to dive in to a topic . I think you mentioned initially that your idea was to write a book more for the workplace , but you realized that we needed to start within . Can you talk a little bit about where you were gonna start with that book ? Yeah , actually .
I wrote this is book number . This was book number two , but I realized it was actually book number one . I do have book number two half written , because halfway through writing this book I realized I was writing the wrong book . So the second book is going to be about how do you lead teams .
This book is all about how do you lead yourself , and you got to start with yourself first , because I cannot . You know how I show up .
Each day I choose how I'm gonna show up and in fact one of my clients said they have a little post-it note that they put just Outside their garage door before they leave the house and it says how am I gonna show up today ? And I wish people would ask themselves that question before they start their day how am I gonna show up today ?
because how you show up impacts the people you lead first , let's start with the idea of finding work , the idea that you're going to choose a lane . We ask this question , perhaps too early , and then we don't ask it again .
We ask it in 7 , 8 and the grade 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , and then after that it's kind of like you've chosen your gear and you're kind of stuck in this lane .
When people are developing and developing an understanding of themselves , how should they think about where they want to work and what workplace Matches up with their , their type of approach , their type of mindset ?
It's actually a process that I've started doing in my leadership class at the university , which is what problems do you like to solve , rather than what role do you want to play , because right now , let's be honest , the , the , the jobs that exist Today are not going to be the jobs that exist tomorrow .
Ai is going to take over all of those jobs and I don't know , like I , so , as a professor , I have no idea what your future jobs are going to be like . All I can do is is teach you , you know , in my , in my classes , social , social skills , emotional intelligence , skills , like those are the things that I know will not change unless we become .
We don't work with people anymore , but but I think the , I think the key really is is is trying to figure out what problems you like to solve and then that kind of be your path .
I Think that this is one of the biggest challenges we face , because we don't know what the future holds , and there's been , I'd say , an addiction to having what your education is going to be complete and then you go off and do your job , and the people I find most admirable are the ones who go through their education and take a left turn and take a right
turn and Explore the different dimensions of themselves , because , to your point that there isn't one problem You're going to want to solve the rest of your life .
You're going to want to stay engaged and interested and , despite the fact that ai presents problems , it also presents the opportunity that the creative , the creative grind is going to become more needed , because that's what we were designed as people to do to be creative , to think outside the box , to fill the gaps that AI could never fill , because we're unique
and the problems we see are so unique , and I think it pushes us to be more entrepreneurial , more open-minded and more artistic in our endeavors .
Yeah , and I think AI can really help AI . I think we I mean , what does AI offer ? That AI doesn't ? The human dimension , your personal experiences . Only a person can feel that . So , yes , you have lots of data at your fingertips , but only you make sense of that data , and so I think it's really important that we start continuing .
Again , this is why I was so adamant about teaching emotional intelligence in schools is there's so much attention put on IQ and very little on EQ , and you and I both know that when you get into the workplace , yeah , your IQ might have got you the job , but it's your EQ that's gonna get you promoted . Why ?
Because you're leading people and people are creatures of emotion and , whether we like it or not , we've gotta learn how to tend to our emotions as well as others .
How do you feel about people trying to move forward in their career ? Is there advice you have in regards to them moving up and succeeding as a leader and succeeding in moving up the corporate ladder or through their business that you see that most people don't consider ?
Well , I'm one of those people that took a left turn . Like , if you look at my degrees , like I was , really most of my education was in marketing and , yes , my marketing degree has helped me run a successful business and I know how to sort of position myself and differentiate myself and talk to my target audience , and all of those fundamentals .
But I teach emotional intelligence , which is way more about human resources than it is about marketing .
And so absolutely I took a left turn because I realized again , like what I said in the last episode is , I wanted a deeper connection with people and I saw something in my life that was lacking you talked about the lack of it's because I didn't have that growing up that I craved that and I thought , okay , as a professor , I saw what we're teaching in schools
, I see , as a corporate trainer , what we're teaching in the workplace . I could see where that emotional gap exists . And guess what , guess what plagues the modern workforce ? Stress , anxiety , right , all of those things continue .
Cause if I don't teach you in school how to deal with stress , guess what , when I graduate you , you ain't gonna learn how to deal with stress in the workplace . You have to learn those emotional and social skills at a young age so that you , as life continues to throw curveballs at you , you know how to deal with it .
Was it hard to take that left turn ? Was it scary ? And what gave you the courage to do it ?
Yes , it was scary and I would be . If I'm being honest , I never , up until this last year , I always kept my university job , so , like I was a professor which paid the bills and paid the mortgage , and I was like , oh , I'm never gonna be an entrepreneur and go out on my own 100% .
This will be the first year that I've actually I'm only teaching one class and it's my EQ course , cause I can't let my baby go , but it ain't , I ain't good . Cause of the money , it's really because I believe so much in what we're doing .
When the book came out and I got not only the awards are lovely to win , to win a business , you know , book of the year and all of those things are great , but it's more that , oh my God , this book is changing my life and that the fact that it's on the you know , the corner shelf or on right , facing out , makes me realize that you people have , like ,
realized that , hey , you know , covid happened . People realized , hey , we're emotional creatures , we're not robots , we don't come to work and you know , just our task completers , we actually have emotions and complicated lives . And the organizations realized we're not equipped to deal with this .
And so , you know , when I started my business , no one even knew what EI was , which it's been around since the 1990s . But all of a sudden now the phones are ringing off the hook because people realized there is a gap . There's an emotional gap that we are not teaching these young kids of these skills . So , to answer your question , was I scared ?
Heck yeah , but I think you know my saving grace , I would say , is I am courageous , I will , even if I'm afraid I'll still do it . And that's the thing I think people need to remember is you can be brave and afraid at the same time .
That's really important , because it seems like some of the best entrepreneurs and the best creators often start with something that they do for 830 to 430 , or something that's consistent , that guarantees , and then slowly they dip their toe deeper and deeper into that water until they're ready to make the full jump .
But that seems to be like a best practice that I see .
Yeah , I mean , I don't know if it's the right practice , but for me , someone who's very risk adverse and I realize that I actually probably think more pessimistically than optimistically and that have that mental model of scarcity versus abundance I think that was the best path for me so that I could slowly let go of the security of knowing where my paycheck was
coming from . And then , once I started to build up my brand and build up my name and see it's more the impact that we're making , like to hear the stories that people tell me , like that story that I told you of the student who I had no idea she was going to end her life and my comment to her and my connection with her saved her life .
Like no money can pay for that . Like that is something that I'll never take away from , that can never be taken away from .
Sometimes we forget that one person can make a difference .
Absolutely , and I think people forget that our words are super powerful , and that's both positive words and negative words .
I don't know about you , but there have been plenty people in my life that have said some really horrible things to me and I still hold that as the story I tell myself about myself and we need to again take back that story and stop and say that story . Yes , it was painful at the time , but it doesn't define me for the rest of my life .
You're a person who understands that policies run a lot of organizations and policies are good because they give guidance to the organization . But to me , sometimes they can become soulless and people can forget why the policy was implemented .
And then they become hardened to the idea that , since the policy says it , that's the saving grace , that's what we follow , no matter what the circumstances , and they become unempathetic , ununderstanding of individual circumstances , and then I would say the meaning behind the words gets lost over time and we become just rats in a race .
Is this something you see often ? Where policies impact individuals or rules impact individuals , is that a primary impact or is it the boss bringing life to those words ? It's the challenge .
I think it's a combination . I think that people hide behind that . I think people say , well , this is the way we've always done it , so I'm just gonna follow along . There's no critical thinking . There's no like , hey , this circumstance is different , so I can change the policy , or the policy doesn't stand firm on this .
I think the problem with organizations is there's hierarchy and there's fear , Like , oh , I got it , abide by the policies , but which I get ? But at the same time , are you abiding or are you complying because that's what you were told to do , or are you committed ? I think the commitment again goes back to the heart .
This is what I want people committed to and this is why in the book I talk about what's your commitment to this ? Like a lot of these coaching models , as I teach coaching in the university , I found all of these models that I was teaching my students how to coach each other . We're all great , but they were missing that .
Okay , you said you're gonna do this . Well , how committed are you ? On a scale of one to 10 ? How committed are you ? Okay , you're about a seven . What can I do to make you an eight ? Or you're an eight , why aren't you a seven ?
You know , like to find out what's that drive that's going to , because you know , and I know , that the only thing that's going to make your feet move ahead each day and it's you . You've got to be motivated to move yourself forward . And life's hard . You're gonna bumps around the road and how are you going to keep getting up ?
It's you talked about UFC , and right , it's not how much , what is it ? Sylvester Stallone says it's not about how hard you hit , but how many times you get hit and keep getting up . It's that same kind of concept . Life's gonna throw you curveballs . How are you gonna deal with it ?
¶ Workplace Incentives and Emotional Intelligence
Do you think that we encourage this sufficiently within the workplace that when you face adversity , when you have a problem that's really difficult to solve , that there's going to be some sort of reward at the end ? I think of like for entrepreneurs . Often it's the long-term payoff that one day my business is going to be big .
One day I'm going to sell this amount of books . One day I'm going to sell this piece of artwork . There's a payoff , and the challenge with traditional workplaces is that there isn't a clear payoff . If you make a certain amount of calls , if you do a certain amount of work , if you do an overtime , We've taken away a lot of incentives .
When I hear about people saying there's no overtime available at my workplace , then there's no incentive to put in more hours and put in more effort .
It seems like we've leveled the playing field to such a degree that there isn't incentives for people to want to go the extra mile the way we might have incentive devised them previously , and the only outlier that I can think of is often waiting staff , people who are serving .
They're the only ones with tips that encourage them to do a good job in an external way .
Yeah , but why do you think we're trying to level the playing field ?
Personally , I think it's because greatness can be really intimidating and jealousy is commonplace . So from my perspective it's easier to level the playing field so the worst worker doesn't feel so bad , than to risk having someone below everyone else out of the water and put in so much work .
One of my past guests , Roy Ratneval , escaped prison in Sri Lanka and he talks about how he was willing to grind and do so many hours and he differentiated himself and built good relationships with the bosses so he was able to climb .
But in a lot of government workplaces and a lot of spaces , going the extra mile is not incentivized because it makes others feel bad about themselves rather than encouraging them to say , hey , you could be that if you tried harder . Yeah , absolutely .
I think that's true . I think it talks about intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation . What is your motivator ? What is motivating you to do that extra work ? I think that's where you need to start thinking about what is really driving me to work harder . Is it the fancier car or the promotion I think you've got to figure out ?
Or do I just want to be known as someone who gives good customer service ?
The other question I have is about unique leaders . You're a person who understands leadership , so you may have heard that Elon Musk is an individual who slept in the place . He was building cars and worked out of there , and that inspired his team to know that he was putting in an incredible amount of work .
Steve Jobs has a similar story of never believing perfection was good enough and that what he created was sufficient . Are these people outdated now ? Were they on the wrong path ? Is this a unique leadership style ? That's rare . How do you think about what they've done ?
I think what they've done is incredible because , again , it's the dedication . You are going to get a lot of no's in your life . I think again , as I said , about what my definition of leadership was all about . It's about going first . It's about not knowing what the outcome is going to be and keep getting up , no matter how many times you get hit .
I think it's about perseverance . It's about persistence , it's about dedication , it's about devotion , it's about never giving up . Even if you feel like I listen to , I'll never forget . I saw an Olympian share his story and he said to shave a tenth of a time off your time , he was a swimmer .
To shave a tenth of a second off your time , it takes years , but he would do it every day . That kind of dedication , that's the kind of person I want to be . I want to be the person that's going to die on that treadmill .
What's the biggest problem you see in workplaces , when you present , when you meet with people ? What's that challenge that's so common ?
About emotional intelligence in general .
Yeah , their biggest gap .
They still think emotions should be left at home and that they shouldn't talk about them in the . It's unprofessional . What I say in my book is having emotions is not unprofessional . Being emotional is unprofessional . So if I let my anger get the best of me and I yell and swear at you at work , that's unprofessional .
But I can still be angry and not let it take over my life . And I think these organizations that feel like , oh , shove it down , push it under the rug , pretend it doesn't exist , oh , I better not talk to you about your emotions , because I don't want to open Pandora's box and find out what's lurking inside .
I think that's the issue that we have , and so I think if people stop being so friggin afraid of feelings . As I said , feelings are not good or bad , right or wrong . They're just an emotional reaction . So just let us have our feelings . If I feel it , if I'm going to cry , let me cry . If I'm going to laugh , let me laugh .
It doesn't mean good , bad , right , wrong , jared Sautner .
Can you expand on the comment you made earlier about how IQ might get you the job but EQ will allow you to climb the corporate ladder or the organizational ladder ?
Julia , I think I have a degree in education . Oh , you should be a teacher and maybe that got me my first gig . By the way , no one once asked me what my GPA was . I find it so funny about students because you're so worried about your GPA and I , literally I am a teacher . I could have gotten Ds , but no one once asked me for my transcripts .
So I don't know why we're so hung up on the grade . But I think you know we look at our credentials and that sort of yeah , okay , you've got the experience you've done . You've done your time in university , you spent the time studying this craft Great .
But as soon as you get into and so yeah , that'll get your foot in the door , maybe , but as soon as you're working with people , you're working . You're navigating the way through emotional relationships and that takes EQ . It doesn't take IQ . You don't have to be the smartest person .
I am certainly not the smartest person , but I have seen a lot and gone through a lot and been through a lot of pain and had a lot of difficult conversations and I'm not afraid of it , and so I think if , leaders , you don't have to be emotional and that's what I say in the book .
You do not have to be highly emotionally intelligent on all 15 of these areas . I struggle with this . You know I'm a work in progress and a masterpiece at the same time , just like you . I'm struggling with this stuff , just like you are , but I'm brave enough to talk about it . So I want leaders to realize that you do not need to be perfect .
My staff knows that I care too much about what people think , so they help me in that . So when I do an event and I say to my staff member , does this make me look fat ? You know what her answer is . What do you think , carolyn ? She's not going to feed into my insecurity . Well , it's the same thing .
If I know , as your employee , and I know what makes you tick for good or for bad , then I can help you . It doesn't always have to be the boss helping the employee . It can be the employee helping the boss . And one of the reasons I've been teaching for 25 years don't think it ain't because of the money , because that didn't happen .
It was because I learned . So I love hanging out with young people because I learned so much you guys , you all , give me such faith in , because I'm going to be old , very old , soon in a rocking chair and you're going to be running the world and I want to know that you're doing . I'm in good hands . So I love being around young people .
One it keeps me young , it keeps me hip although I don't think hip's a hip word anymore but but it also gives me faith and hope that there are really good people out there that are doing great things . And if you know so much of the news focuses on , you know we're all about doom scrolling right , negative news , negative .
But when I meet people like you , I'm just so refreshed and I have so much more passion to do what I need to do in my lane to hopefully make a difference in the world .
¶ Navigating Career Advancement and Compensation
That is very well said and again speaks to the idea of optimism , trying to climb this corporate ladder or this organizational structure . I think of needing a raise . With everything that's going on in our economy currently , things are a little bleak , so you can imagine that a lot of people are working a job that's just barely paying the bills .
Some people are working multiple jobs to pay the bills , and one area that I find really interesting is this idea of trying to move up in your organization , request opportunities for further compensation for your position , but I also think that that needs to come with more effort , that there was one person I listened to in a short TikTok video that was like if
you're going to ask for more money , you have to show where your value at is going to be . How do you think about trying to climb and succeed and find more compensation for the work you're willing to do ?
Or organizations . This is not a charity . This is a back and forth you do something for me , I'll do something for you , I'll give you a paycheck , you do something for me . So the only reason that , as an organization , would pay you more is if you're doing more , adding more value to the organization .
The challenge is , I find in my experience when I work with people is they'd ever want to talk about it's like again , like emotions , money is a voodoo topic . I don't want to talk about it . I think , again , we need to be brave enough to say , ok , here's what I want , let's put our needs out there .
Here's what I'm looking for , here's what I'm hoping for , and then to have a conversation with their bosses here's what I want , here's what I'm hoping I'll be compensated for for what I want . Here's the responsibility I want to take on . What do you think I need to do to get that ? Let's have a conversation . What's my development plan to get that ?
If you feel like I'm lacking in an area , let me know . If you feel like I have all those areas , then let's talk about why I don't have what I feel like I'm . My mother always taught me she's taught me a lot of wonderful things , but she always said you pay someone what they think they're worth and they will be .
And so if I believe I'm worth this , then I'm going to tell you . Now I'm not going to do it , so you've got to be really careful . Again , it's 55% of what people hear is body language . So if I come in here all snoddy and say I deserve a raise and I have this sense of entitlement about me , well , goodbye .
But if I say , humbly speaking , hey , factually speaking , this is what I've done in the last few months , this is the value it's brought to the organization . I really want to get more responsibility , I really want the new title position , I really want a raise , then again you're taking the emotion out of it and you're just saying here's the facts .
Also , look online , see what are people in my field making ? How do I measure up ? And then , ultimately , if you feel like you're worth something more , then go out and get it , ask for it . You're already out of know if you don't ask . So be a assert yourself and ask .
I love that you're out of know if you don't ask , because there's something interesting about people that we view where we are as safe , despite the fact that it isn't Like I think about how inflation is going to impact people over time . $15 an hour is not going to be sustainable .
In six months , when inflation increases and all the costs of the store go up , it feels like , well , I'll just stay at this job because it's safe . But oftentimes it can be a barrier to your comfort . It's not just staying there is going to be OK , especially when the value of your money is decreasing over time .
And I don't think we always give credence to the idea that if you stay at a no , if you don't pursue these things , you're at a vulnerable position and you can't stay there .
But I'm curious you must deal with this sometimes where organizations just operate based on seniority , and there's something missing about that as well , because it's not about who's willing to work the hardest and put in the best effort . It's about who's been with the organization the longest .
Yeah , and I see this . The three reasons why people get promoted the most is you've been with the organization long enough , so we promote you , you know the person in power or you've got the technical skills . It's never because they have the emotional intelligence skills .
And I think the problem is , when we promote people due to seniority , what we're doing is exactly what you said . Those people like you that are willing to work hard get demotivated . Well , why should I work ? Because I'm the low man on the totem pole . This is I hate to say this because I'm part of a union .
This is why I hate unions , Because I think it protects the people that don't want to work that hard . I think one of the reasons why I've been successful in my company is I work like you know .
People always say to me oh , your book , your first time author , how come you've had so like an overnight success , 25 years of doing this 18 hours a day , Not having like . As I said to you in the last episode , my family is my job , my baby is my job , so I've sacrificed a lot and I love that .
People just want to hear the success story of the overnight success . It hasn't been overnight . It's 25 years of me working 18 hours a day , seven days a week , and I'm prepared to continue to do it . Why ? Because it doesn't feel like work . It feels it's my passion . I know how this changed my life .
I know it can change yours if you're brave enough to do the work .
It's a really interesting point you make about unions Because , yeah , in the early stages they seem like they can help kind of level the playing field and make sure that people are compensated fairly . But over 20 years , 30 years , that fight , that gusto that they had when they first formed , is no longer there .
And then you're paying $200 , $300 a month and union dues to an organization that you've never interact with . That doesn't help and that doesn't push you to be better . That basically just protects you from a sense of accountability .
Yeah , and also or losing your job , and so , absolutely , like I said , I'm not a big fan . I think that I think hard work begets hard work .
Yes , and meritocracy it sounds like you also believe in . Yeah , can we also talk about with this idea of inflation ? It's at an all-time high since 2001, . We're seeing it impact grocery stores .
¶ Navigating Financial Conversations and Overcoming Shame
Money is a topic that is incredibly heavy for people , as we've already kind of discussed this feeling that it's an uncomfortable topic .
The reference case I'd like to use is like a family that loves their children but can't afford like Christmas gifts or the gift that she really wants , and having that conversation even with your spouse and saying we just don't have it in the budget or it's very unrealistic to try and afford this $300 thing or this $600 Xbox or whatever it is .
That that's outside of the line of , say , how do people have these types of conversations where there's a no-win situation in a healthy way ?
I think , ultimately speaking , what's real ? Erin , you're my child . I don't have enough money to buy you the next gadget that you want and you're gonna be disappointed about it . And I'm sorry , but that's like I think , families that .
You know my mother she worked three jobs to give me the education I had three jobs because my father didn't support that , Like he had nothing to , wanted nothing to do with it , and so this is why it's payback time .
Now she's living with me and I'm taking care of her for the rest of her life , because her sacrifice to put her life , my life , before hers is one of the reasons why I am who I am . It's one of the reasons why I got into emotional intelligence .
I think parents need to stop , you know , trying to , you know , do more than they should overcompensate and like , oh , let's just buy them this so he'll shut up , or I don't want him crying , let the kid feel sad that they're not gonna get the present that they want . People need to learn about disappointment .
They need to learn about is it gonna be an uncomfortable conversation ? Absolutely . Do you want to say the conversation ?
Probably not because you wanna be the hero , but you gotta tell your kids you know this is what mommy and daddy make , or mommy and mommy make or daddy and daddy make , or this is what our family makes and this is what it costs for this gift and unfortunately , this Christmas we won't have money for that .
And I think , being honest and open , rather than racking up your credit cards or going into debt , you know it's just . I think we're just putting band-aids solutions on the real issue .
Then how do we overcome the shame that comes with , like there's it's different , because it's not that they didn't work hard enough , it's not that they don't care enough , it's that the world has changed in such a way that they can't afford a thing they may have been able to afford last year , but our economy has changed in such a way that makes that unfeasible
. And so there's a shame that still felt that I'm not enough , that other children and other families and other communities are going to be able to afford this and I can't . And had I gone to school longer , had I changed to jobs five years ago , had I been another person , have I succeeded or gotten that promotion six months ago ?
I would have been the person able to deliver this . How do they not go through a shame spiral ?
They may and I think again , as they say , feel the feelings Like again , shame provides you a gift . It definitely tells you what you can and cannot do . Like right now I am boundried by how much money I bring in . I'm not saying shame is like that's a good feeling to have , but it's your truth , it's what you're feeling .
Then I would dig into okay , if you're questioning your value and I didn't choose the right education or I made the wrong choices , well , what can you do ? Because you can't change everything . You can only change your circle of influence . So what can you do to make yourself feel like okay , given the circumstance ?
What can I do to give my child what I'm hoping ? And again , it goes back to intention , right , what are you hoping ? Is it about the gift ? Is it about the $300 ? Gadget , or is it about what I want that child to feel ? To me , it's about that emotional connection , and no money can buy that .
Is there a way of overcoming this in a developmental way where we can start to grow to be able to afford those things or to inspire the child to think differently ? I'm just thinking about how we overcome these hurdles , because it seems like next Christmas could be the same story .
How do we start to get out of this or navigate through these , these uncalled waters .
When I think of heroes , I think you've got to have hope . I remember once , when I was therapy session , my therapist said what if this was your last day on earth ? What would you feel ? And I said relieved . And she said to me okay , that's a depressed thought , but that's not all of your thoughts . What else are you feeling ?
And so I think a lot of times when we get in that cycle of shame , sadness , right , we can spiral down into a very , very dark place . I think really hope is our answer , that there will be a better day . Today's a really bad day , but this too shall pass .
There's something also twisted about the idea that we hurt the ones we love the most , like if it is your child and it's Christmas and the person you want to spoil with love the most is the person you're going to disappoint the most .
So there's almost like a twisted element to the idea that the people who see your flaws are not the people you see at work hey Bob , how's it going ?
It's the people who have been there for you , who've seen you at your weak moments , and those are the people you're going to disappoint on this day or on these occasions , and it's almost a darker experience than the average .
Yeah , and I think again , having those conversations with your kids , as deep as that is , you can simplify it . Like you know , Sally , I'm really sad that I have disappointed you today and can I do something about that ? And like I can't buy you the gift , but what can I do to make this day better ? How can I support you ?
Because I can't give you what you want , but I do want to make you feel better , because mummy feels bad about making you feel bad .
Do you think that when you do get to a financially comfortable position , there's a danger , in having money , blur the lines between how people truly feel that you can buy your way out of pain and discomfort .
Absolutely , money is a very emotional topic . You know , I work with estate planners and trust planners . Right , like , families are ruined because of money and I think money means so many things beyond what money is there's such an emotional attachment to . Oh , I decided to give , here's my legacy , here's my will .
I want to give this person this , and people fight about this for years . So , absolutely , I think it's a very emotional topic .
How do people make sure that they don't ? Because there's this whole argument around like don't let money control you or make your decisions , like enjoy , like going for a walk that's free , like make sure that you don't become obsessed over spending money to find joy , but it does open new avenues for pleasure and joy . How do we find that balance ?
I think it's remembering . I think this is when you see all these very successful people that have a , it's kind of going back to the basics , remembering what's important to you , remembering what you value Like because you're right having nice things .
I'll never forget I was dating someone once and we broke up and I moved out of his house and he was a multi-millionaire and I turned to my realtor and I said where am I ever going to get this closet again ? Because he had made a bedroom into a sex in the city closet . It was so amazing .
And he you know what the realtor said to me , carolyn , it's just wood . And I thought you know that's so right and I'm so glad we ended the relationship . He wasn't the right person for me , but so much time , we put so much energy and emotion and attachment onto something that you're right , it's just wood .
If I want a closet which , by the way , I can now buy myself that closet I don't need a man to give me that closet . But at that moment it was so painful and emotional to me . It was hard to see the forest from the trees .
Right . Remote work has been something that's been coming about more and more and through a pandemic , we've obviously gotten more exposure to the opportunity to have more of a work-life balance , to see how productive we could be from home . What are your thoughts on remote work ?
It's a double-edged sword , right . I mean . I think it's polarized a lot of people . It's made things more divisive . Are you a techie person or are you not techie ? Well , if I'm not techie , I'm scrambling doing the Zoom meetings . If you're techie , you're moving further ahead .
¶ Remote Work and Emotional Intelligence
I think the introverts versus extroverts the introverts are loving being at home . The extroverts are craving connection . I think this , you know this self-focused versus other focused . You know , people don't want to go back to work . Because it's way better for me to not waste time on my commute .
But if I don't go back to work , then the buses stop running , the world stops working like the like . I got to go back to work so that the economy continues right . So we've got to . I think what the remote work has done has it really has made a bigger divide in what was already a pretty divisive community .
But what remote work has done for people is there's been a lot of loneliness , there's been a lot of isolation there's been , but the positive is , you know , it's been better work-life balance . I can , you know , I don't waste my time on the commute going to work . It every day . It's been challenging , like now .
How do I collaborate with you if I'm no longer in the boardroom and we can't , you know , feed off each other's energy .
I think people are making these Zoom meetings be too much of a barrier because , as much as obviously I encourage people to put their cameras on because , again , 55% of what people hear is body language and you need to read people and read the room and hear their tone of voice and hear their words but I think people are using it as excuse I can't connect with
you as much because you're now on a Zoom call . I actually think the opposite . I feel when you're at home and I'm at home , I now get to see a little piece of your world . You're now at home in your comfort of your environment .
I think for some , in particular when I teach , for some students it's been very much more comfortable to do a presentation on Zoom because they're in the comfort of their own home and then in their surroundings and it's yes , it's 35 little faces looking at them , but they don't have all those eyes directly and they can feel sort of the chair that they're sitting
on or in their own home . But I think a lot of people , in particular a lot of organizations , are using it as oh well , we can't connect because we're not in the same office and I actually think there could be a deeper connection if we started having those deeper conversations .
Final question of this amazing series what do you think people , what do you hope people will take away from your book if they read it ?
If that emotions are not the enemy , you do not need to be afraid of your feelings . They come and go , they hurt like hell , they're really personal and they're incredibly painful , but they're transient and they and and and subjective , and we need to stop being so afraid of them .
And we but we do need the tools on how to manage them , how to express them , how to label them , how to understand them , how to recognize them , and that is why I wrote the book is to give people a roadmap of what is my emotional makeup . How is that helping and hurting me ?
Any final reflections after the series ? What have you taken away from this ?
Well , I've learned so much about you and so much and I have so many more questions that , like I would love to come back . I love , I've loved doing this . Like I said , I've reached out to you because I just saw such talent . I think the I people can say a lot about me .
The one gift I think I have is I see , I can see talent when I , when I , when I is in front of me , and I've done a lot of podcasts , a lot of interviews , a lot of television interviews . You certainly stood out . So I hope you know I wish you nothing but the , but I hope we stay in touch and we'll stay connected .
But it's you've refreshed me to remember that there are really good people out there , really wonderful people , that when I'm in that wheelchair and rocking on that chair , there are some really good people taking care of this planet .
Well , I can't thank you enough for reaching out , for proposing this . I think it's such an opportunity to really explore some of the dimensions of what you know so much about , and it gives people the tools to kind of start to reflect and work on themselves in an incremental way .
And I love the design of this because we're able to explore different pieces of people's lives A lot of this their work life , their family life that's 98% of their life .
So we've been able to explore what you know about these areas and hopefully make it in an accessible way and then encourage people to go read your book so that they can continue to understand themselves deeper . Are you able to just talk about some of these self-assessments at the end of your book ?
Yeah . So one of the biggest things that I encourage people to do is I get them to decide where they are on that continuum for those 15 different emotional-intelligent competencies . So , for instance , are you confident or are you too confident ? Are you fulfilled or are you not fulfilled at all ? Are you aware of your emotions ? Are you completely oblivious to them ?
Can you express yourself constructively or do you yell and swear when you have something to say ? All of those questions I ask I take the reader through to figure out where their emotional makeup
¶ Emotional Intelligence and Overcoming Challenges
is . And what I do want to say to you , which you said , I think , in a previous episode whatever it is , it's a starting point , it's a baseline . Don't let no matter where your levels are . It's just where you are today , but where , where ? What the goal of the book is is where do you want to go ?
What does that ideal , the best self myself , look like in the future ? And I'm living proof of that . The byproduct of emotional intelligence is you are going to be happier , and I went from suicidal to I've never been happier . Is my life perfect ?
Absolutely not , but I am content and I know I can handle whatever life throws my way , and that's becoming really emotionally resilient to , to life's curveballs .
Well , I can't thank you enough . I think part of the the beauty of this mini series is how raw you were , how honest you were about the experiences you've had . I think that makes it relatable for people to know that they're not alone when they're dealing with some of these challenges . You're not a guru who's never faced any of these problems before .
You understand this from a first person perspective . You understand what it's like to face these problems , and so you're able to bring the real , practical information on how to overcome them , and I think that's so valuable for people .
So I encourage everyone to go grab the book , go check it out , do these self assessments , because we as a society are better off when individuals reach their full potential , whether that be emotionally , intellectually or in a community spirit kind of way . We're lucky and we're enriched by when people take these steps in their own lives .
Yeah , absolutely 100% agree , thank you .