¶ Navigating Family Dynamics During the Holidays
family knows you the best , they know how to push your buttons and they will do that . And I always say to people know that most likely history will repeat itself . And Agnes is going to say , oh , you know , are you still in that dead end job ?
Or you know , uncle , you know , cousin , cousin Rita is going to say you know , oh you know , are you still dating ? That ? You know the deadbeat right , like they're . They're going to say or or you look overweight . You know , like all of those questions are going to show up at the dinner table .
Episode four . We have made it . We are diving into the relationship we have with our family and trying to be emotionally intelligent with them . With the holiday season coming up , with , more and more family events are on the horizon .
I think it's useful to explore how we can be considerate , thoughtful , honest individuals in dynamics that we may not be comfortable with or used to . How do you feel ?
Well , I'm excited to dive into this , but this is definitely a hot topic that people don't know how to respond in family situations .
What do you see ? Do you hear this a lot in your work ? That these are the environments where you see a lot of the triggers may come out ?
Yeah , absolutely . Family knows you the best . They know how to push your buttons and they will do that . And I always say to people know that most likely history will repeat itself . And Agnes is going to say , oh , you know , are you still in that dead end job ?
Or you know , uncle , you know , cousin , cousin Rita is going to say you know , uh , oh , you know , are you still dating ? That ? You know the deadbeat right , like they're . They're going to say or , or you look overweight . You know , like all of those questions are going to show up at the dinner table .
Why .
I see a great question , I think because , um , I always ask people like , I think that the why questions a great question to ask and I actually don't like people to use why , because why can really put people on the defensive ? So I always say , hey , I'm curious , how come ?
It means the same thing , not to make you feel bad about the why , but you know like , uh , you know Toyota , they'd use a five Y technique right , asking yourself why five times to get to the root cause of the issue . I think we hurt the ones we love the most a lot of times , which is unfortunate .
Um , I think there's a lot of passive , aggressive behaviors that go on in family functions .
I think , people , there's a lot of history that I don't get to actually tell you what I really think of you , so I'm just going to push it down , push it , push it down , push it down , and then , at the family function , I can just give you a zinger and see how you react .
And I think the bottom line is we just have to start having more honest conversations , scheduling these quality family times , that that you , you ask these deeper questions and and I talk about it in the book , about , um , you know we're a lot like an iceberg , right . What you see is just immediately what's apparent . You know .
You see my communications , you see my actions , but you don't see all the things that color that . You know that that impact my behaviors and communications . I E , my fears , my , my beliefs , my emotions , my assumptions , my biases . You know my stressors , my motivators . All of that's underneath the surface .
So unless I you know and today you know , throughout the day we've been , we've been asking a lot of questions to each other . But I'm just such a curious person because I do want to know the why , like why are you the way you are ? Um , and , and , and , to get curious , and and and dig into those .
I call them inner iceberg conversation , like what keeps you up at night , you know what fulfills you , you know what stresses you out . We don't ask those questions . Normally it's just about surface level stuff and I really think you know , if we start having those deeper connections , we can . We can build bigger bonds .
Do you think it's strange of the human endeavor that we choose to participate in these things , that it is a common trope that family gatherings can be stressful , uncomfortable ?
Some of the comments you alluded to are all there , yet we continue to attend , we continue to participate , we continue to put ourselves in circumstances where we know that antagonists is going to make that comment , that these things are going to happen . What zooming out ?
What do you think of of this dynamic that we have with ourselves as a society , that we all know what's going to happen , we know it might not be the best time , yet so often we continue to participate .
Well , and this is why I use emotional intelligences to me , the answer is to tell antagonists yes , antagonists Um , I actually did just break up with my partner and it's I'm a really sensitive about it , so I'd rather not talk about it , but normally we feel like we need to say something to them to fill in that void .
¶ Setting Boundaries in Family Relationships
There's nothing wrong with setting a boundary and saying I'm not prepared to talk about it or turn it around . And hey , an Agnes , what's going on in your love life ? Right To turn it around , so that it's not always about you . But I think the only thing you can do , your family's going to be your family , they're going to do them .
The only thing you can do is how you show up into those situations and you can just say this is what is okay , what is a boundary ? A boundary is what is okay and what's not okay , so I just need to let you know what's not okay with me .
If you asking me something on on , you know my relationship that I don't want to talk about , I have the right to say Aaron , I appreciate your interest and I'm not in a place that I want to talk about . It , right ?
now there's something interesting . When you said the passive aggressiveness , because I hear that that person in the head being like oh whoa , I didn't know you were going to react like that or I wouldn't have .
Oh it's , I guess it's really sent Like there's something about poking the bear and then pretending that you didn't know that that was going to happen and playing ignorant about like oh wow , you're really sensitive about this and making the person at both ends look like the butt of the joke . They're now overreacting to you , placing that boundary .
Do you see that a lot ?
too Absolutely , and you know to me a great visual of what passive aggressive is . Is this like this right . It's really like that's really what I want to tell you . Yeah , but I'm too afraid to say it , so I'm just going to cover it up .
And so I would get into if , if I , if I were good to give someone advice , I would say to them you sound really angry or upset with me . That's the story I'm telling myself by that statement .
You just gave what's going on , and then I would shut up and I would just listen , because clearly you've done something to that person , whether intentional or not , that has triggered them enough for them to do this to you . But they're just trying to be nice and cover it up .
That's one of the things I find so interesting about these events is that you're right , it's we don't want to dive deeper . At dinner there's there's people here , we all just want to get along , and there's this lack of willingness to really dive into what makes you tick . Where are you coming from what ? What's going on in your life ?
It's a lot of , from my perspective bragging . Yes , I'm here , I've made it , I've done this . Oh , I haven't seen you in a while . I mean this new job . I'm making this like I'm doing great and it's like it's a lot of comparison and competition , almost , and not warmth and strength and love . It's a lot of . What is this person up to ?
How are they doing now ? Are they doing better than me ? Are they doing worse than me ? It's like it's not always warm and I'm just curious , like why do we stay at the low level when it's supposed to be family ? The whole idea of family is that they're deep bonds . Why is it surface level ?
Yeah , I think it goes back to kind of what we talked about in a few episodes ago , which is , I think people avoid these difficult conversations for short , short term , like they don't want to feel the short term uncomfortableness . So you know , it'll be uncomfortable for me to have that conversation .
So they'll deal with long-term dysfunction and I think we need to again . It's that quick fix . Why are we trying to make things easy ? Why do things need to be easy ?
¶ Family, Tradition, and Gift Giving
I think the best work that I have done is the stuff that was tough and I didn't give up , that . I kept at it and I think that , you know , I'm kind of the black sheep of my family .
My family , you know , didn't really talk a lot about the real issues and I was the one that would always speak up and maybe that's the reason why I'm in the field that I'm in . But I feel like people need to say what's going on for them . It doesn't mean that that's real , that's just what is real to me .
And so if we can have a conversation , that if you see this table as black and I see it as white , then let's just have a conversation about how our perspectives , how we see it and why we see it with the way we see it , but I think everyone just doesn't want the short-term uncomfortableness and I think that's the big issue .
I think that's the issue why people want it easy . That's the issue why we don't want to be triggered . That's the issue why we don't want to talk about emotions because we don't know how and we don't have any confidence to do it . Is family in the blood ? No , I think family is all about shared values . I think family is about deeper connections .
I think it's a sense of belonging . I absolutely do not believe family is in the blood , and a lot of times in my case , my family has not always been blood , and I think the issue for people is we do feel like a sense of obligation that these are the people that are part of my heritage and there's a balance .
You don't have to turn your back on those people . This is who I am and where I came from , and they have helped mold me into the person I am today , for good or for bad , whether that's like hey , I'm not gonna be like Uncle Fred , so I'm gonna go the absolute opposite way .
Or it could be like hey , I absolutely wanna be like Aunt Sandy and I'm gonna root and head in that direction . They have molded you , and your life experiences do create who you show up in as every day . But that doesn't mean you have to turn your back on them .
But you can also open yourself to your own traditions as you can come up with your own identity as you evolve as a young person .
How do we put together these evenings , oftentimes with Thanksgiving , christmas , with these family events ? It seems like there's certain standards . You think of Turkey , you think of stuffing , but I often try and think about the environment you're trying to create for people , the idea that a house is not necessarily a home .
You make it a home through your efforts , through tradition , through these actions you can start to create a sense of belonging , a sense of community . What do you see if we look at the unhealthy dynamics versus the healthy dynamics ? How do you see the differences between them ?
I think just being open and honest about what's really going on for you and having those brave conversations . I think it is going to feel uncomfortable at times , and that's okay . I think conflict can be good . Without conflict , we would have no innovation , right ?
If we just accepted everything as okay , this is the way it is , then we're never gonna change what could be . So I think it's fine To me when I think about hosting a family event . What's the intention ? What do I want people to walk away with after they've sat at my table ?
Is it that they're gonna remember that great stuffing that I made , or is it gonna be ? What does that say ? People don't remember what you said or did . It's how you made them feel . I wanna know what . What do I want people to feel like when they think of me ? What do I want people to feel like when they leave my party ? What ? Right ?
I think and I am just a player in that show , I am not the show , right ?
It is not a monologue about Carolyn , it is a dialogue , and so we've gotta start realizing that , yes , we're only a very small piece in a very bigger picture that we're all sort of a part of , and I think really just setting your intention of what you're hoping to get out of each dinner and then doing , acting the way you would want someone to treat you in
that situation , for them to walk away with how you would want them to feel . I think that's the key .
I think of the idea of tradition as a really unique concept , because it can connect you from people of the past as well , Like the idea that you have a recipe going back to the 1900s , thinking of your grandmother , your great grandmother , who made it for the first time and passed that recipe .
On that you can create a lineage and a connection that's far deeper than people realize . And , to your point , it's this everything , if it's done intentionally , with this idea of how am I leaving people ?
You wanna make sure the chairs are set up correctly , that the cutlery's done properly , that the food is fresh , that the music in the background is good , all and beyond so there's candles , that everything is kind of mindfully done so that it creates this experience .
And then , as a host , you wanna make sure that people feel comfortable to talk , that they feel relaxed and understood , and you can see people disconnect with their traditions when they just serve food and they don't really care how it tastes . Or they ask you 50 different drinks that you want and they kind of just force it on you .
I was just over at a friend's house not too long ago and he just gave me three drinks one alcoholic , one pop and one water and said choose whichever one you like . He didn't give me the option to say no to a drink because I probably would have just said , no , I'm good , I'm fine , I'm all good right now .
But him not providing that option was like you're a really good host . I can see that you're going the extra mile because you don't wanna hear no , you wanna make sure I'm comfortable and that I don't have to ask , Because the idea of getting a drink and I say I have like orange juice , pop , water , tea , coffee it's like that's a lot to choose from .
Having somebody go like . I'm gonna make this easy for you . Here's a few options . I hope one works and if not , let me know . But kind of , creating the opportunity for people to feel relaxed and comfortable in your space is something that takes a lot more work than I think we realize in these events .
Yeah , and I think again it goes back to what we talked about in a couple of episodes ago , which is taking yourself out of the situation thinking how that person would feel . Yeah , if you go to a party and you're asked , you get an 18 page menu of what . You never know what to choose from because there's so many choices .
The fact that your friend gave you just three choices and then walked away and gave you space to choose without any pressure whether you chose something or not does really show what kind of a host that person was .
The other one I wanna ask about , because it's something I feel like we've really misunderstood in our culture right now , is gift giving . It seems like we don't understand how to give gifts anymore . A lot of people go to .
Well , if you're gonna give me a $20 gift and I'm gonna give you a $20 gift , how about we just skip that and just have dinner and not do anything ? But there's something to demonstrating I know you and being emotionally intelligent about your needs , wants and desires that I can see .
Hey , maybe you're lacking this in your life , or you've said you've had a bad back , so maybe I get you one of those massage guns , and that I'm seeing you in a perspective you might not see yourself . It seems like that's the thought that matters , and we seem to so often go to money how much is it gonna cost ? It's too expensive .
I'll just get them a $20 gift card . It seems like gift cards are such a norm now where we don't actually show the depths of how much we know other people , and I'm just curious from an emotionally intelligent , strategic perspective , what do you think of gift giving ?
Well , it's interesting you say that because in my class , every semester at the end of my class , before we went on COVID and went online , I used to give my students a rock and I would go out in the garden , pick a bunch of rocks and write little words on each rock and then I'd put them in a little cute little baggie and hand it to them .
¶ Meaningful Gift-Giving & Good Family Member
And I thought these kids are gonna think that like what is this teacher doing ? Because back in my day you know how you have fidget or widget spinners , you know that was your gimmick . Back in my day we had pet rocks . And what was a pet rock ? It literally was just that a rock . That was your friend .
And I always say give this rock to my students because I think , okay , you're gonna go off and graduate , you're gonna . You know , life's scary and sad and I just remember as a kid my little pet rock was my friend . When I was alone and sad , I had something that was kept me company .
So at the end of the semester I get all these rocks , I pass them around the classroom and I , you know , give them and I say , okay , what word did you pick , erin ?
And each student come and I think , oh my gosh , these kids like when I say kids , they're in their 20s , right , like I teach 20 year olds , I think these kids are not going to like appreciate that , because my whole point is leadership's about foundation and rocks are about foundation and I want you to remember the foundation you learned and there's like , there's
a whole , like I have lots of meaning behind this little rock . Years later I'll get messages from my students that say I was at an interview and I brought my pet rock with me and they like , literally I have thousands of students out there right now with my little rocks that they're having a bad day and they remember it because it goes back to that gift .
I took time . There was a meaning behind my little gift . It costs nothing . I go to the dollar store and buy these little baggies and I give them to a student and a lot of times students think you're my teacher , why would you give me a gift ? Well , they've given me a gift . They've been in my class . We got to experience something together .
So I think with gift-gifting , I think that's right . Let's take away the dollar value of a gift and , yeah , start to pay attention to the nuances of what Aaron does and , yeah , if his back is hurting , what can I do to help him ? Because I care about him , not how much it costs , and that I can show off , and oh , I bought him this fancy gift .
I think that's the key that we've got to get back to . So I think if we start to pay attention to not only what's important to me , but also what's important to the other person , then we can be really thoughtful in our gift-giving .
My next question is what makes a good family member or a strong familial person ? Because you can think of , say , you lose a family member . There's the person who organizes things , who makes sure that things are getting done and that there's a schedule and that there's a plan for the funeral .
There are individuals who just attend the event as a passerby , who aren't involved in the planning During good times . There's a person who helps the bridesmaid , who helps set up the events , who makes things comfortable , who helps make recommendations towards things . What do you think it takes to be a good , healthy family member ?
That's a really good question and I don't know if I've in my traditional , like my bloodline . I don't know if I've been a good family member . I think a family member is someone who puts in the time , pays attention . This is why I say I don't think it's blood , because my family's , my business , my clients .
I put so much energy and time into my business because I didn't have a really solid family unit at home and I felt very disconnected . I did feel like the black sheep of the family . Everyone was doing one thing and I was doing another , so I didn't have a lot of similar shared values .
Now my mother , who is like my best friend and who now lives with me yes , we have such a connection together , but absolutely , was that an easy ? I talk about this in the book . It wasn't an easy . We were co-dependent on each other . She did everything for me , which I really appreciate , and gave me the life I have today , but I was too emeshed .
So to me , I really think that , if you can , still you need to put in the effort and the time and care and attention and really the attention , and I think , just like financial investments , family is an investment and I honestly I can say to you I don't think with my own bloodline have I been a good family member with my clients and my staff .
Absolutely , and this is why I think you've got to figure out who are your people . It doesn't have to be bloodline .
I completely agree . I think of all of these circumstances where individuals are trying their best and feel like they're not getting the yields that they want . They're making the dinner , they're putting in the effort to make sure everybody else is taken care of , and then they're left holding the bag and feeling like everybody else had an amazing night .
I made dinner , I made sure that the space was comfortable , and then they almost feel forgotten . And I think of individuals who are carrying this burden , and for so long that other people don't recognize the amount of work that goes into making an amazing night , making an experience where there is no stress around food .
And when you go on a good vacation , I think that that's what comes with . It is like you don't have to stress about the little things . Those things are taken care of , and I think sometimes we're not grateful to the people who put in all of that work .
Yeah , they're behind the scenes and I think we need and again it goes back let's step outside . Why , like , let's step outside ourselves . Why was that family event so good ? Was it the conversation ? Was it the great meal ? Was it a combination ? Like you talk about experience , it's the whole kit and kaboodle , right , it's all of it .
So what break it down into what made it a good experience ? And , yeah , then acknowledge those people that do put in the silent heroes in the background that are . You know , I think of my mother . She's such a great host . She was always the one in the kitchen making a wonderful meal .
You know , I remember when I was 12 years old I can't believe I'm going to say this on air , but my mother brought me and she's like come here , carolyn , I'm going to teach you how to cook . And I said at 12 years old mommy , I'm going to have so much money that I'm going to have my parties catered .
Fast forward 40 years , I still don't know how to cook and if I were to host a party , I wouldn't know what I don't have . What she had , which is really that , that ability that to just make a house into a home . I feel like I've got two left feet . When I do that , can I cater a meal ? Yeah , but will that create that same experience ?
So maybe that's the reason , erin , you know , as you asked me that question about family , I'm probably a really bad example of what a good family member is , but maybe that's the reason why I'm doing the work I'm doing , because I just wanted such a deep connection with people and I knew even in my own family unit I couldn't get it .
So I think I'm trying to teach people that , whether we're connected by blood or not , I can still find out a lot about you and you can find out a lot me , and we can have intimacy right without having a connection in blood , I think that that's also the again going back to the idea of adversity is like seeing the lack of allows you to see what you missed
out on or what you want .
It gives you that perspective because certainly there's people out there who are used to great family dinners where , like I , was over at somebody's house and they have a spice kitchen and their spice kitchen smells like all these different amazing spices and I have no idea what it would be like to cook with all those smells and with all those flavors .
And so it's interesting to see into their world and go oh yeah , we use this every day and it's like interesting , I've never had a space kitchen , I've never thought about having a space kitchen , and so it gives you that appreciation of how other people see the world and experience it . But they don't .
They can always appreciate what they have because they don't know what it's like not to have it . And so you can start to develop traditions , develop values and say this is what I see that's valuable , that I admire in other people , that I'd like to develop more of or that I'd promote other people do .
When you go over to somebody's house and they make an amazing meal , you're all that more grateful for the amount of work that goes into it , because you've recognized what it's like not to have it .
But what I hear from you and what I noticed , even in you and getting to know you over over these last few episodes , is that you're really observant . Most people aren't . I think we're just floating around and like we're like little hamsters in a wheel . Do we even pay attention ? Think about it .
When you go to a new city , right In a new city , you notice everything . Think about what you noticed this morning when you woke up and drove here this morning . Did you even pay attention ? I think we forget to stop and smell the roses and look around as to what's going on .
Like , what I find fascinating about you at such a young age is you're stepping outside yourself , going . This is what's going on in the evening and this is all the elements that contributed to this wonderful evening . People don't even , and then people don't even do one . Don't do that , but also what it makes you feel you're really self aware .
So I think the first step really is stepping outside yourself and kind of going . What made that situation a great situation ? What was it about that party that that I want to emulate at my party ? I think the fact that you , you know they always say to me and I think this is a really good point , I had a tough childhood .
They always say the most wounded are the best healers and I think that's because I understand pain and I think sometimes it doesn't mean my pain needs to be the same as your pain . But I understand that and I think because I'm not afraid of the pain . As much as I don't like it . It's uncomfortable , I'm not afraid of it , I can , I can , I can .
I think that's what I thrive on . I want to find people in my life that I can have that connection with . I'm sure you've noticed throughout today I asked a million . I was voted the most confused student in high school , not because I was stupid , because I asked so many questions , I'm just so curious .
So if people can step back and kind of start asking themselves questions , asking other people questions , and stop talking so much , right , my mother always told me two ears , one mouth . Use them accordingly . I'm horrible at it , but I do try to teach people to , to practice that .
I think the one really valuable piece there's this quote , joe Rogan says a lot which is the worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you and we can often forget that because it's your own personal experience and so , whatever that is , when you think of the worst thing that's ever happened to you , that's that's subjective
to you Exactly .
You can't look at a World War II veteran or an indigenous person who went to Indian residential school and identify fully with what they went through , because whatever your metric is for the worst thing is your own personal experience and I think when we're talking about this idea of having this human connection , there's such value in going through where the lack is ,
because that's where people start to identify . So I think a better question perhaps to you is when do you know where is the line that we can subjectively draw for most people ?
Where the relationship isn't worth it anymore anymore , where it's dangerous to put yourself in these circumstances , where you come out hating yourself , hating the other person and absolutely miserable , where should people start to identify ? Like my emotional health is just going to go through the gutters If I attend this event , if I spend time with this person .
They're just going to make everything worse for me and they're going to take me off my journey . Where is that line ?
¶ Emotional Well-Being and Self-Control
I always say to people when the plane is going down . What do they say ? Save yourself before you save the children . We have to do that . We have to pay attention to what is emotional well-being , its happiness , its being able to enjoy your life , all the many aspects , its satisfaction , its contentment .
And if right now , you're with a family member and , whether it's blood or not , and they are not making you happy and they are affecting your emotional well-being , then you have to put the mask on yourself first . Rather than saving the children , you absolutely need to save yourself , because you're no good to anyone if you're not here . And so for me .
When I hit rock bottom and I knew that , okay , I need an answer here or else I am no longer going to be on this planet , that's when I realized , okay , emotional intelligence is my lifeline and that's what I've now spent the last 20 years focusing on . Is that ?
a tough decision or a rewarding decision , after making it Both Right .
And again it goes back to why are we ? We got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable because short-term uncomfortableness is is okay and it's way better than long-term dysfunction .
Do you think that , through these family dynamics , when we're talking about anti-agnest and these individuals , do you think that that's something worth suffering through every I guess four times a year ? Is that something that we can start to get over ? Is that something we can put into a box and endure ?
Or is that something , if you know what's coming , that you should avoid it ?
Well , I think the the challenge is I don't think you you have to avoid it , but you can prepare for it . I think you can prepare . You know history will repeat itself and you don't have to turn your back on it . But you have a choice . I can't make you feel anything . That's up to you . You get to decide .
If you feel so , if I say something to you and it gets under your skin , you're allowing me to do that . You're allowing me to have that power over you . If you know and Agnes is going to get under your skin , prepare on how you're going to show up to that space and and be your authentic self .
And and maybe your authentic self in the past would have just let it happen , but maybe your new authentic self today is going to say you know what , no matter what they say , I'm not going to let it penetrate , I'm not going to let them control how I feel , because I do that all by myself .
I love that , and I think that's a perfect way to wrap this up , because it's about controlling your inner self . It's about changing yourself from the inside so that you can adapt to sometimes challenging circumstances , and not necessarily avoiding them .
Yeah , it's absolutely an inside out journey .
I'm super excited to dive into the next one , because we'll be exploring this idea of the workplace and how to relate to your boss and how to look at inflation and all these complex issues as well , which I think are becoming ever more important .
Yeah , absolutely Looking forward to it .