121. MP Joyce Murray: Liberal Government, Politics & Conservation

Their work has had a vast impact on how we protect wild salmon populations . I had the pleasure of speaking with member of parliament Joyce Murray . Joyce , would you mind introducing yourself for people who might not be acquainted ?

Brilliant .

Again , I studied languages and music and traveled , and so I was not clear what my next step would be . Then , when I returned to Vancouver , I went into archaeology and things like linguistics and discovered that sciences was of interest and began to fund my university through planting trees .

So that's kind of the early exploration that was part of my first 23 years of life . And then I met and married my now husband , dirk Brinkman , and we've just celebrated 46th anniversary .

So my second 23-year period of life was marriage , having raising a family and building a tree planting business from what was a part-year one-crew initiative to what became a much more substantial reforestation and ecosystem restoration company , and so that was my second 23 years chunk of life .

And my third was seeking a nomination to go into public life and contribute some of the eclectic and diverse interests and talents that I had after doing an MBA which was focused on on climate policy and environmental policy at SFU .

So that's really some of the non-linear voyage that I have undertaken and it's been an amazing opportunity to work with people and to navigate complexity to aiming for creating positive change .

As a tree planter , spending days sometimes in a burned over , almost wasteland of a former forest , and yeah , so that translated into when I did my MBA and started in 89 and completed it in 92 , I was very focused on public policy that is constructive for ecosystems in the environment , because you know clearly that is an important way to have healthy people .

And , as you probably are aware , I did my final project , which was a substantial body of work on climate change and nature-based solutions , and so that's . I've had that on my website as a politician ever since .

So when people encourage me to do more on climate , I thank them for their advocacy and I invite them to take a read of my climate policy research from 30 years ago , and I assure them that I am and will always be an advocate for strong action on climate change .

there with the reforestation contractors and I went up to the mic to speak and challenge some of the what I was hearing from captains of industry and government and I think the Gordon , who later became the premier , observed that and thought okay , there's somebody who's going to fight for what she believes in . And he said I should run with you .

And my answer was not a chance , I've been involved with his degree party Anyway . So I definitely backtracked on that and decided to seek a nomination and that was 23 years ago . So here began the most recent 23 year chapter , and I've just turned 69 .

So it was a moment of reflection about three weeks ago or four weeks ago , as to just the rhythm of my life , which one does on a birthday , and I was very curious as to what the next chapter would bring . And so , and I remain curious , I'm wondering about entering politics .

What are the actual next steps for politics ? Was it what you expected entering into it when you enter into the actual rooms ? Was it what you anticipated and did it meet expectations ?

So it went from being a suggestion by Gordon Campbell to deciding to seek a nomination and then becoming elected in a writing that had traditionally been NDP , but of course , the BC Liberals did win a landslide that year and that sort of flushed me in , and my very first time entering the BC legislature was as the appointed minister of the environment , so it was

a great . It was a grand adventure .

It was , of course , a challenge , but I do bring a business background and a commitment to a good environmental policy and a problem solving set of skills , and so being part of the BC Liberal government when our mandate was to bring the economy back and strengthen the economy and find ways to advance good public policy on the environment was my challenge for those

years , and I had the privilege of setting the foundation for what became the BC government's groundbreaking climate policy that they put forward in 2007 . But the foundation was something that I was able to put in place . So what's my advice to people ? I just bring yourself and your interests and your capabilities and be open to what the opportunities might be .

I mean , that's my view and whether I was a backbench MP in opposition or cabinet minister , I looked at what were the opportunities to move things forward in a way that I felt would be constructive for people and the planet . And that's I think it's really use your own talents and find the opportunities and work to move the dial .

You want to make sure that if you want to advance something , that it's an issue that's important to you , that you hold on to that and don't have things kind of pushed to the back and make sure that you advocate for the interests that you have for your constituents , for your members and for people at large .

And it seems like that's something you've been very good at . And I'm just wondering how do you make sure you keep that balance ? Obviously , as a party there's sometimes different goals than as the individual you might have . How did you strike that balance ?

I mean , I actually finished pre-med in that set of explorations as to what I wanted to do , and so I have a very eclectic background and it's just really about , maybe , stubbornness and a strong sense of purpose . So I do get that I need to bring people on board .

I mean , one example of so there's been a number of initiatives that I've picked up and pushed forward that have actually made it into a public policy , and just one example is plastics . So I have some , so you never know where these things are going to come from .

But I had a Karen Riston , who was living Ocean Society executive director , brought a constituent with her into my office , you know , back six , eight years ago to say that there is a real problem with oceans plastics , and that she had been working with others on a volunteer basis to go and collect plastic off of beaches because it affects sea life and both birds

and fish , and actually can be a killer . But the money had run out . I said what money ? She said , well , we had three years of money from Japan post tsunami . And what ? Can you help us find out if there's any money in the federal government for this ?

So I went to talk to the minister of transport , the minister of environment , the minister of fisheries and oceans , dominique Leblanc , at the time , and there was no federal money for cleaning plastics out of the ocean .

So I decided that we got to have that and did a two page paper with lots of references and footnotes about the size of the problem , which is that we would have more weight of plastic in the ocean than fish in the ocean in 15 years if we didn't tackle this .

And so as an MP a backbench MP , while I was a parliamentary secretary , actually , but as a non cabinet minister you still get to be in front of people in caucus meetings .

And so I did a series of presentations to caucus and because I had found out that the DFO said you know , plastics is not our issue , check environment and environment and said well , if it's in the oceans it's not our issue . And you know , we talked to transport and transport said unless it's coming off of ships . It's not our issue .

So the both the environment minister at the time , catherine McKenna , and the prime minister's office key people were paying attention and Catherine McKenna came to me and said I'm interested , can you share that paper with me ? And I also recognize it was . We were the leaders for the upcoming

G7.June meeting and I went to the prime minister's principal secretary at the time and said if you're looking for things to put on the G7 agenda , here's one .

Gave him the paper and so the prime minister did put it on the G7 agenda and Catherine McKenna put it on the G7 environment minister's meeting agenda and our government has moved forward on plastics in a way that is leading edge . So it was just a bit of a nudge from me in a position that nobody asked me to work on plastics . I think all MPs do that .

You see , mps do some amazing work on , whether it's on human rights or gender equity or food policy or environment . That's the opportunity of being an elected office and it's available to everyone and it is fabulously satisfying . Can you talk to people to get into politics if they see it as a potential path

?

And so , you know , that's why I decided that this was a very good application of my eclectic set of skills and interests , and you know , my business and MBA enabled ability to analyze things and to move things forward and bring people together to get action .

So I decided to run federally in New Westminster in Kikwetlam , ran with Paul Martin's last election , which of course we lost , and then was asked by Stefan Dion to chair his leadership campaign for BC . So I was the BC chair .

So I spent about a year on a , you know , voluntary basis helping get delegates to Montreal for that convention and , of course , he won , squeaked through , which was really awesome . And so then I thought , okay , this is the leader that I want to work with . And how am I going to be able to do that ? And it's not by running in New Westminster .

And I decided to move to the neighborhood where I grew up as a child and went to school , which is Vancouver Quadra , and when an opening came , I ran here , and that's what's led to this amazing 15 years as a member of parliament .

And so , to me , the basic , you know , whether it's local , provincial or federal , those key elements are the same , and so I've just gone back and answered your previous question .

Several past guests have said that they've been on a boat with you where you're looking at things and you're getting information on the front end that you're able to take back and start to make informed decisions about fisheries , about our oceans , about how to best protect this land and these waterways . Can you talk about your work as a minister ?

The work of a minister is a different character , but fundamentally the purpose is the same as the work as an MLA or MP , which is to get to know the priorities of your constituency , your own priorities , and bring them together and seek to make a positive difference for people and the planet . So there you have a bit more direct levers as a minister for sure .

So I was a minister for four years in the BC government three years as an environment and one year as the Minister of Management Services , and then almost five years in the federal government . So it's hard to summarize that , erin , I bring me to whatever job I'm doing . I don't think it's more important to do one thing or another thing .

Whether you're a minister or not a minister , you need to bring people along , you need to listen and work with other people . You need to make sure that you're listening and that the things that you're trying to do I mean it's just like any project you do your best and some things are going to work and some things aren't going to work .

I had the chance to work on aquaculture when I was environment minister provincially actually because for the first time I brought in regulations to protect the seabed floor from the accumulation of waste from the salmon aquaculture farms which in some cases were cited where the tides and the currents were not moving the waste away and they were actually suffocating all

of the sea life on the seabed floor .

So there was a bit of a closing of a circle that become a minister for DFO , which has been an absolutely awesome opportunity also to think about people and their jobs , to think about conservation how do we manage fisheries so we're creating opportunities that we're not overfishing and also to introduce climate change and the kinds of restoration of the sea to have

nature-based solutions in the ocean , so ocean-based climate solutions . So that was a big theme for me at DFO is how can I help contribute to my country and the world's action on climate change through my leadership at DFO ? So very satisfying for me to embed some of that into the department and thinking and the policies at DFO .

. It has a scaling effect across a whole province when we're talking about healthy salmon populations and starting to get a better balance on how many fish farms exist . What was your mindset on that particular issue ? How did you process the information ?

From my understanding , you get a lot of people coming to you saying this is what we think you should do , this is what we think you should do , this is our perspective , and you have to kind of soak all of that in and make the best decision as possible for everybody involved , and that's a balancing act .

I'm just wondering how did you kind of process that particular issue ?

Now our government has done a historic amount of work to restore habitat and focus on restoring wild salmon , and that's through the Pacific Salmon Strategy Initiative , accompanied by $750 million .

So I think that , to sum up , the aquaculture transition , we are , as a government , committed to that , and it means really having a thoughtful approach , because they're First Nations who have jobs and small businesses in those areas , and so I was recently really thinking deeply about what would it be like for communities that are dependent on the salmon aquaculture

industry in their historic territories to have opportunities to create equally jobs . Businesses benefits from a conservation-based economy , and so what would that look like and what would they choose if that was available , if there was a menu of possibilities ?

If we go back to the Great Bear Rainforest Initiative in the central coast of British Columbia , that's exactly what was done to reflect the fact that the giant cedars and fir trees in the central coast rainforest that were being clear cut had an important ecological as well as social value .

So the Great Bear Rainforest actually that initiative started with Gordon Campbell , when I was the environment minister , sitting in a boardroom at the downtown Premier's office down at Canada Place with a set of leaders from the conservation community and the Premier , myself and Stan Hagen , who was the land minister at the time , and the Premier saying to the conservation

leads . You know there's probably 20% that you and I don't agree on and 80% that we do . Let's work on this . 80% Do you think that's possible ?

And we had this two-hour meeting that set the foundation for what became the Great Bear Rainforest and now is emerging as the Great Bear Sea , because the ocean conservation commitment of Mr Trudeau's Liberal government is very , very strong and it's very ambitious and underway . So that's a long way of saying we have done this before , had a transition .

We've done it in a way that is respectful of indigenous peoples , legacy reconciliation , their culture , their values and their opportunities to earn a living where they have traditionally lived . And I think that there is equally that possibility with the open net salmon aquaculture transition to work through . What would a conservation economy look like ?

That would be paying in terms of jobs and businesses and benefits , and so I'm optimistic that the new minister will continue that work and that the indigenous communities will see that opportunity and be part of a discussion .

I imagine that you feel that when you're making decisions like this and that's a lot of weight to have on your shoulder when it comes to making a decision , whether it's to make an industry a bit smaller , to do things a bit differently that's a lot of onus that you have to carry .

How do you process that and how do you carry decisions that are going to have a vast impact over years and years and years ?

So I can , I can talk about my experience on that from almost nine years in cabinet , between provincial and federal , and that is that if it's the right thing to do for people in the planet and you're working with the different constituencies , which you have to do to make any policy changes and one of those most important constituencies is indigenous communities ,

with our deep commitment to UNDRIP based reconciliation it's really by listening to people and including them that that , I'm convinced , one moves forward on a path that is the right path . So I mean it's hard to crystallize an answer to such a broad question that I think it's about including people and not charging ahead to do things oneself .

And I'm also , by nature , not somebody who's easily deterred from what I think is a positive pro-social , pro-ecological , pro-economic outcome . And so if we hit a roadblock , it's like , okay , let's sit down and think about what more we can do or what else we can do and let's talk about it .

So you know the weight of responsibility I think we all share that every individual in society has a responsibility for how you know what kind of world we will , our next generation will be living in , and we all feel that weight to some degree .

Being an elected representative , I have had , and still have , an opportunity to make positive changes , as I talked about earlier , and so I don't see that so much as a weight . I see that as an incredible blessing that I need to use skillfully and wisely .

I am also very compared with when I started in elected politics 23 years ago , the role of Indigenous communities , just the powerful role has it's been . It's like night and day and I think that's also so positive for our future . So I'm an optimist , but I'm also a pragmatist . So there's a lot of work to do .

I mean , I started out writing a thesis on climate change 30 years ago and what and I shopped it . I actually flew out to Ontario to sell it to the head of Ontario hydro and to that was doing coal-fired plants and nuclear , and I shopped it to the deputy minister .

I actually had a meeting with the deputy minister of natural resources , federal natural resources department and said I want you to read this . This is about that we need to do nature-based solutions , but really it's about it's a climate change thesis , so read it and let's start incorporating these kinds of this kinds of thinking .

And I think people thought I was a little bit off my rocker years ago , but we're doing that stuff now . So I know it takes time , takes so many people all moving in the same direction , so many climate activists and so many thoughtful citizens saying this is important to do .

Our government has picked up the baton and has been working on that for 15 years and I think that that's incredibly important to continue that momentum on conservation and climate and actually accelerate it for the benefit of future generations . So it's not a wait .

It's been a huge opportunity , it's been a thrill , and I remain at this point still the member of parliament for Vancouver Quadra , and it's those voters that allowed me to do all that I've been able to do in federal politics . So I want to express my appreciation , my deep appreciation , for their trust in me .

And then I mean , I did so many things that were not very rational really Over the years . They were just intuitive , like seeking the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada when I was pretty much an unknown .

But hey , that led to a whole lot of things actually going into our Prime Minister Trudeau's first election campaign , Everything from gender-based , gender equal boards and commissions and cabinet to putting a price on carbon and other things . So you never know what's going to come out .

You just have to trust your instincts and be willing to be curious and open to what your next adventure is and then use all of your strengths and skills to do your very best to make a difference .

So I know that that's not over for me , and maybe over in the form that by the last 23 years is presented , which is elected office , and I remain enthusiastic and curious and committed to making a difference .

Over such a long period of service to Canada , to British Columbia , I really appreciate you being willing to take the time .