What do you do when life doesn't go according to plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down with a guest to talk about the times they were knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
Some stories are funny, others are cutwrenching, but all are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice answers one question. Now, what we met? And it was as if I had never had my life without you, And I can't explain it, you know, And I remember it was like what the parking lot? I think it was, It's true, and I remember it was a parking lot.
You remember that, Yes, of course I remember it. And I remember thinking like, oh, let me tell you, okay, because I remember it as if it happened yesterday. So you didn't. You didn't approach from the front. You snuck up from the back and you and you came up to me, and you I remember sitting there talking and you came up and hugged me from the back, and I said, who in the world is this? And I turned from my hand. That's exactly right, and I'm thinking
to myself, what is going on? I turn around and broke your right. It was as if we had known each other for the last hundred years. You were so familiar and so down to earth that we were two kids just discovering each other again at the in the sandbox, you know what I'm saying. And it was gossip, gossip, gossip, gossip, gossip forever. We just picked up on everything. My guest today is an icon in the music world. Lionel Ritchie
is an award winning musician and prolific songwriter. He first found success as a member of the Commodours and moved almost seamlessly from motown to solo superstardom with a string of massive hits, including one of my personal favorites, All Night Long. He's a Grammy, Golden Globe and Academy Award winner, a multi platinum artist many times over, and a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But most importantly, this man has been a mentor, a friend, and a
confidant since I was sixteen years old. He's always been there for me and so I was thrilled, although not surprised, that he agreed to do the show. So, without further ado, here is Lionel Richie. I'm so excited to actually see you in person. I've been hearing your sweet voice on my own and seeing you on FaceTime sometimes, but I miss you. Congratulations to you, and let me just tell you something. I love being on this show because we get to gossip anyway. So this is all about what
we do off Mike anyway. So here we are used to Where are you right now? I'm in La California at my house, which is probably the novelty of life because I very seldom here. As you well know, it feels like you're always touring. I'm always sure. Yeah, so every time you know me, I mean in Europe or I'm over in some parts of the country. Now that the pandemic is over, I'm touring full time. Now I'm around the world. Really, Yeah, how do you two love it? Is it different now at the stage in your career
than it was in your twenties or your thirties. Well, I can answer that question for you very simply. No, it's not any different in terms of the enthusiasm. What's really different is now instead of doing three shows or four shows in a row, we do two shows in a road. Take a break, two shows in a row, take a break, Otherwise you'll burn yourself out completely. But as far as the crowds are concern Brooke, they are still showing up. Oh my god, Well, I mean, I
want you question it. Why why not? You're brilliant and your heart is so beautiful, and I feel like you epitomize music and you've been an icon in the music industry for so long. But I honestly think it's because of the passion that you've had from music ever since you were a little bitty kid. And I would love to talk about just a little bit about some of those memories of little little baby Lionel. Oh my god, loving music. I would love that's It's very interesting. I
grew up on a university campus. I grew up onto in Alabama, in Alabama, Tuskegee University. And when I say grew up on the campus, literally on the campus of the university. And so my mother was an elementary school teacher, and my grandmother was a music instructor and also one of the people up there on the campus. And my father was of course in the military at that time, because we had two divisions, the arm in the Air Force. Tuskegee Airmen were the Air Force, and the Army was
of course the base on the campus. So I'm basically in a full time military base with a university campus. I'll put it. Got it, okay. And what made it so interesting was it was in the South, so gospel music guaranteed, the gospel choir on the campus guaranteed. Country music was all on the airways because that was pop music back then. And then the blues and R and
B was all around us. And a little twist in my life was my grandmother was a classical pianist, and so right in the middle of all of this blues and R and B and gospel and country, I would wake up every morning hear my grandmother played back and Beethoven, and all of a sudden, it just became part of the flow of the sound of the house. So I was in this little melting pot surrounded so it was just it was very interesting. I didn't realize I was going to be a writer, and then as I started writing,
I realized all of those, those influences started coming out. No, do you remember when you wrote your first song? Well, I do, I do it. I am a little kid. I was a little kid. It was called House of Clay. That's funny you would ask that question. And I never put it out. I never recorded it. But I just thought I had written. You would have thought I would have written the Star Spangled Banning. I'm walking around the house and my little house of Clay and they can't say,
Lionel Junior, please stopped humming that song. But I was just somebody gave me a tape recorder and that was the big the reel to reel at that time. Was it a love story or was it just a love story? To the House of Clay. It was love story. It was the love story was in the House of Clay, in our little house of Clay. Oh my god. So you've been writing love songs to since day one is about maybe six or seven, not knowing it for anybody. No, it was basically for myself. I mean, you have to
understand it was. It was no, there was nothing happening at that time. Where is there a line you remember from it or some words or yeah, in our little house of clay. It was in our little house of clay, things can be so beautiful in our little house of clay. That's good. Oh, I love it, Okay, So if I had to write an essay on it, I would talk about sort of molding your home to protect those in it. You're having it be safe but crafted and warm, and
it was. It was. It was also very comforting. I think the thing was you could tell, probably at that stage of my life, that I was safe, you know, it felt safe. And so to write a song like house of Clay, in our little house of clay, it was. It was a very safe spot in my head, in my heart, and so I kind of look back on it now. You would bring that up. I just I'm
just thinking about it now for the first time. But of course you would, really, But it was just one of those moments in my life where because sometimes childhood can be a little traumatizing as as you well know, as when you grow up. It's it's one of those things where things that you think are wonderful are not
exactly the greatest things in the world. I think I used that song as my place to go, well, you know, when you when you grow When you grow up as a kid, you know, kids can be you know, if you don't play baseball, you know, they bully you, you know, so you retreat into this place where you feel safe. So I think now that you kind of brought that up, I kind of probably use that little metaphor the House of Clay as a place I could go inside in my head, because member, now I'm on a you're on
a university campus, and when you're growing up. I had a great childhood. It's just the part was where you go to hide some days. So this is the sixties in Alabama. Sixties in Alabama, which I mean already that brings up a lot, that brings up everything. And but the funny thing about it, we were on a university campus,
all black university campus, so everything was safe. In other words, we didn't know as kids that what was happening outside fifteen miles away, twenty miles away from Tuskegee was the civil rights movement. And you know, you know, Martin Luther King is right down the street, and and the entire bus boycott, all this is happening right down the street. But yet our the little cocoon, if we called it, the bubble. You know, we felt safe in this environment
on the on the campus as kids. And when did you start realizing that there was this other, more hostile world right outside your bubble that your parents created. I would say probably in my middle of my seventh eighth grade year. It's funny how life happens. You know, it
was happening right in Montgomery, Alabama. It was happening right there in Selma, Alabama, exactly what twenty miles away, thirty miles away, and yet it had to go to Walter Cronkite in New York City and then I see it on the evening news, what's happening right down the street from where I lived. But as time went on, we
became really aware. As beginning high school kids, we knew what was going on clearly because at that particular point we were starting to integrate the schools downtown in Tuskegee, and that was the whole beginning of the awareness. Did your parents talk to you about it? Did you Did
they sit you down at all? And yeah, yeah, I mean they set us down, But we didn't have the problem that we have today, which is the day you have to have a dialogue with your your your sons and daughters black kids, to tell them how to navigate the police and how to navigate confrontation, because it's it's really every day in your face everywhere in the world. Here in Alabama, it was one of those at that
particular time. It was just basically we didn't have to worry about leaving home because if we left home, our parents were with us up until up until, you know, high school, so we didn't really have that conversation of survival is just come home and home met just down the street and that's it and safe and safe. So when when do you you here your talking about that and then you grow up in a little bit more and it's nineteen sixty eight is when you join Commodore.
We were freshmen on the university campus. How fabulous was this if we weren't the Commodore as yet? But it was a nice freshman group of guys who thought we were going to take over the world and kill the campus with our incredible music. Not realized the world. I mean, Brooke, if I had any idea that that little freshman talent
show was going to morph into a career. What happened to me on that particular day when we had the freshman talent show on the campus changed my life forever, which was I was too slow to run track, I was too short to play basketball, I was too small to play football. The only sport I could play was tennis. And no girls hung around the tennis court while you're
playing tennis. So all of a sudden, I walk out on the stage at the freshman talent show and the girls started screaming, and I said, Okay, I don't know what this business is, but I'm in it. That's all I want. And they've been screaming ever since. Hallelujah. Well that's why. That's why all you have to do. Would say, is it me? You're looking for it, and people that's it? I mean, honestly, well, it just you played right into it. I've been a sucker for it ever since. I tell you.
I read somewhere that you told your daughter, I think it was Sophia, I wish you lots of failure young, and I found I found that very interesting because I think that's an important lesson. Were there any pivotal failures from your youth or your life that made a impact. That's a very good question, and the answer is I didn't realize what success was because I kept failing all
the time. You know the words. I guess I just thought that failing that was there going to be the story, because I mean, first of all, think about it, I grew up on an academic campus. Was I very fond of academics? Absolutely not? How are my grades in math terrible? Do I remember texts to the point where I can regurgitate the text in five seconds? No? I didn't know what a d D was or ADHD. Didn't know what hyperactive? Well, we didn't know what it was then, yeah, well we'll
see they knew what it was. It was called this guy has a problem. This kid has a problem. So back in my day, it was never comfanying to have it. It was always always we're trying to figure out line or slow him down. But I didn't realize that was a real positive if you know what it was and how to navigate it. As time went on, I realized that those moments of failure. When I say failure, I mean I wasn't at the top of the class. I'm getting to the music business with the commodorees, and I realized,
how do you learn how to be on stage. You have to walk on stage. You know, there's only one way. You could take all the courses. You can take all the music you want to, but the bottom line is, if you want to be a performer, you have to go on stage. What happens on stage? Trial and error? Yes you can sing, but can't you sing while the fight's going on over in the in the bar? You know? One is there one sort of moment that performance that stood out for you where we really got that trial
and it aired on error? Yeah, it was error on error. And the point was I do remember one night we were playing and right in the middle of the show, the lady walks on stage. Now remember that this is not Madison Square Gardens. This is a club. This is a club. Okay, So a lady walks on to lady walks on stage, and I have the microphone, and how do you deal with someone who wants to talk in the microphone with you when it's your show while you're trying to sing. And so that's a moment, that's a
teachable moment. And I remember sitting there trying to sing the song and she's trying to talk, and what I should have done? Now, I should have dealt with it a different way. But at the time my frozen said, so, like an idiot, what did I do? I gave her the microphone? Oh gosh, And you know the answer to that, Oh no, I mean, you know it's like, now you'd probably I mean, if it was not a security breach, which to me that's already sounds like a nightmare in security.
But I could see you then singing the song to her. Yeah, in a way, I'm like, I'm figuring that out and then everybody you know, so there's there's ways to do it. But I mean, that's just a moment. You cannot scare me now. In life, you cannot. I mean, every imaginable thing that's probably happened. But trial and arab were going back to your question, trial and error is the key to getting really good. People don't hear about that. They
don't hear about the failures or the errors. Yeah, I mean, I'd love to tell you that every song I've written over the years was a hit. That's not true. You have to how many songs did I throw away or how many ideas that you throw away to kind of capture that one little jewel that's really stand out and so you know, you try it, you try it, you put it together, you try you take it apart. It took me longer to write All Night Long than any other song because it had so many different parts to it.
I couldn't figure out where's the ending of this song. It just kept shifts in the middle. It goes on and there's three hoods, another shift, and then Tom Beliethy said no more yards over here, and then All Night longs over here. Then Jambo Jambo's back over here. Karamu fiesta for whatever. I've got so many parts. What do I do with all these parts? It could either be a grand disaster or it could be a great thing.
You know, you have to really embrace failure, if you if you approach something from fear, then you're halfway doing it. You know, just kind of lean into it. If you're gonna do it, do it well, and then you just if it doesn't work out, I mean, you know, then you just move on and you try something else. You know, if this doesn't work out, then you try another one.
You know, but you always talk. You always sort of bring it back to the people who are in your personal life who sort of grounded you through all whether I mean you started talking up about that with the tour, and through I imagine successes and failures, you still have that base to go back to. And what I find especially interesting is that you got married early. Your first marriage was to college sweetheart. College sweetheart. Yes, I was basically a senior and she at that point was basically
a sophomore. And we met each other there. But at that point we went on after she graduated. I'm now in the commodorees full time, so it was maybe four to five years after we met you got married and we got married. Yeah, And was she living with you in Hollywood? Oh yeah, Oh no, definitely, we moved out right after well, let me put out this for the Commodore's, No, for the commadoors. We were in Alabama full time. And then after Kenny Rogers, this is well into my commodore
commodore career. Where now Kenny Rogers is when I moved into Hollywood, California. And that was the AHA moment in my life when I realized, this is not Kansas anymore. We are not in Kansas, you know what I'm saying. It was one of those woe yeah, and the forces against you, you know, it's just stacked against you at that point, because it's like it's like no other place I've ever been to before, because I couldn't get one person degree on the same philosophy three blocks away. And
did that affect your relationship? Well? Always, I mean you don't know that, you know because you figure, you figure it's remember that you're born and raised in a small town. The funny thing about it, in my small town of Tuskegee, I'll give you a statistic, no one in my entire community ever got a divorce. Oh you understand, all right. So now here we are in Hollywood, California, and you think, you know Hollywood is like Alabama, you know it's nobody. No,
it's not. It's not a nurturing place. Let me put it that way, married or not married, married or not married, it's not a nurturing place. It's not a place where you feel safe to say. You know. What I loved about Tuskegee was the whole town had the same philosophy. That's number one. Number two. I didn't have to hide from my mom and dad. I had to hide from the whole town. If I was sneaking, you follow me. So the whole town raised me. Here in Hollywood, California.
All you have to do is cross the street. You don't have to go out of your neighborhood. And it's a different philosophy every day. Meanwhile, what was happening the most was you still trying to discover the new you or me in this case, you know, I mean I was a commodore. I didn't know anything about solo life, solo career, and so all of this is happening just
about the time I'm meeting you. So you had been married about fifteen years and you had the one that col that was that was that was a bright light. I mean, you have to understand that that was one of those things that little angel comes along at the right time and kind of solidifies your life. That was one of those things that happened. I wasn't you know in life there's surprises that makes the difference. That was
a wonderful surprise that came along. And I love her to death, oh, I mean I know, and she loves you so much, and she just came into your life and it changed well, I tell you what it did. It kind of get It gave me an anchor when
I say an anchor in a good way. You know when we use the word grounding, you know, every once in a while, and you know, this business, it's so much about me, me, me, I, I my mind that when you find a little face that comes along and you realize, okay, now there's a person right here that
needs my assistance, it's called my kid. And from that point on, you know, I kind of enjoyed watching her stumble and grow, and because she came in with a lot of stuff at the time, but it was one of those things where I really felt connected to her to kind of no matter what was craziness was happening in my life and in my ex wife's life. You know, we wanted to make a commitment to make sure that her life was solid. And what was your experience like
co parenting that was? Wow? Well, um, I'll put it like this. The PTA meetings that we had in Alabama were not the same PTA piece we had Hollywood, California. Those were some different kind of parents altogether. But again, co parenting was one of the agreements that we had. It was it was difficult, but but the co parenting part was easy because we both agreed that we loved
her she is. That's that's the story. I mean, I could you have to know Brook, It's it's this business is like strange, but at the same time, you can survive it. But it's going to take an effort. It's not going to be an easy ride. And that that's not only for the artist, but it's also for the kids, the kids, the parents, the grandparents. Everyone's going to go through the Canada, you know, shout through the Canadas. It's tough.
I'd love to switch a little to your solo career because that's I mean, we met around the time that you decided to to go solo, and um, you recorded Endless Love. I remember I told you that story, right. The producers wanted me to sing it as this little girl, and so I was going to sing it with you and was all ready and then this Diana, somebody some come up and coming right now, some lady come up and coming in. Yes, and the business. Yes, my mother comes.
My mother said, honey, Um, you know that song you were supposed to sing for the for the studio. You're not gonna sing it anymore. I was like, you're kidding. It was I couldn't believe it. Um, but you had been with the Commodorees by that point for about fourteen years. What made you finally decide that you could or would or wanted to go out on your own? You know what? Didn't want to go on my own, had no I wouldn't. I know that sounds like a shot. Wasn't going that route.
It just I was writing my behind off. And when I say that, I mean in a good way. I loved writing. And so here's Kenny Rodgers and so and so, and I've got around in this love. And of course they kind of backed me into in this love because how it came to me was we need an instrumental. And I said, oh, okay, okay, that's fine, And so I hummed this little bab ba song bah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. It just came to you, and you and
I Bob bought it, and they said okay. And they came back to me and said, okay, can we do the bah bah? Next thing? I know that came to me. Next thing, I knew at that point we're gonna have her sing the first verse to the person in the room. Could you write us a first verse? Okay, my love, this is only you in my life, the only thing that's right. But first you have a breath that I take. You have a step I make good, Lila. We've decided to make that extended now and make it a full song.
Could you write the lyrics? And we're gonna make it a duet? Wow? Okay, who would you like to have to do it? And I'm thinking to myself, I'm doing Kenny Rogers, I'm doing the Commodorees at night, Kenny Ross in the day. I don't have any time in between to do this. All it was supposed to be was a simple instrumental and now here I am with Diana Ross. And but I tell you this took a life of its own. I mean, it came on and the rest is magical history. I must tell you, because us Diana,
just the combination about voices came together. Forget about it. It was I mean, it was, it was happening. I mean I just remember, you know, being so mesmerized by it and being feeling so lucky that I was on I got to be on the cover of the album for the song, and I sort of thought, oh god. You know, I remember thinking, oh my god, I can't
believe that I'm on the cover of the album. It's so funny, Brooke, because I mean, you've been a part of my life, even though because you were so young, you you, your face, your image, your being has been so much a part of my life that of course I thought it was just so natural for you to be on the cover. It was like one of those things. And I'm thinking to myself, great way to sell a record, put Brooke on the front cover. And we haven't hit record,
you know what I'm saying. But I mean, it's it's funny how we just paralleled all the way down through our careers and just start our emotion and our lives. And I always have really phoned you out of the blue for just the most emotional moments in my life. And and that's a relationship I will always cherish. If you look back on your life, is there a certain decade that that really stands out to you where you experienced just the most growth? Yes, yes, well, well that's interesting. Um,
believe it or not. People think it was the eighties, but it was it was. It was the seventies. I have to tell you something for me, getting me to not be frozen on stage and to go out on stage with confidence and say give me the microphone, give me that mike, give me that mike. You know, I mean with because I was this shy kid. So my most growth was to go from a kid who was just in the wings of a stage let alone out on stage, to now to be a front man for
a band. Oh my god, this is like night and day. Did you have stage fighter? I was terrified, you know, because it was I had no ego, so you know it was I wanted to be in this bay. I don't have it. You're exactly right. I didn't have that jock mentality like you know, give me the ball coach. You know. I wasn't that guy. I would always come off stage and they even to this day, they'll say to me, great show, Lionel, and little voice inside of my head will go, really, you know, it's still it's
still there. It's it saved me. I think Brooke for the longest part, I think that lack of real I mean, don't get me wrong, ego was there when I'm stepping in the studio, but when it came to actually having something to work. It was really almost a surprise to me as everybody else. Holy cow, that that records to hit record, you know, and was there did you find freedom though? When you finally got that sort of that different kinds of confidence to sort of in that solo career?
Did you find the freedom minute in the commodore career and in the solo career it was it was probably at that particular point in life when you find that you know how to do what you know how to do, it's yours. In other words, you know, no one does that like you do that, and that's a hard thing. I mean, that's like to get there, to really be able to do that and not compare yourself to other people.
Best time ever in my life, I must tell you, because at that particular stage, I didn't have to study Keats. I didn't have to study you know, you know, you don't have to go back. Just all you have to do is just go it. Go Lionel, what are you thinking about? And you go, I'll be right back, you know.
Probably you know, I didn't have to pass an exam, you know, And it was that wonderful moment when I just said, Okay, I think I've got this, you know, because that was really the beautiful part of my life. That's wonderful, and I'm sure you'll have more of those. I call the show now What because it's I'm always interested in in when the unexpected happens, and you know, you ask yourself, now, what do I do? And what would you say? Or now what moment has been? I
think that I'd like to look at my career. I'd like to look at my life as a calling card. It's a it's a what do I What do I do with all of this recognition? What do I do with all these songs? What do I do now for the rest of my life? You know? I love walking out on stage and the entire world sings with me, they laugh with me, they cry in front of me.
They've lived a life with me. I've gotten now with American Idol, this new group of nine to seven year olds going, that's Lionel, you know, So what do I do now with all of this? And I think at this point it's a teachable moment now for me because I love helping people to understand life is hard. When these kids come on that show, they gave me the kind of essence of what the world is. So my job now is motivating. How can you motivate? I travel
around the world. I've got fans, they've been divorced, they've been broken, they've been you know, every possible thing, and here they are on watching me. And so now I'm taking the opportunity now to form different organizations around the world. I'm involved with King Charles, the Prince's Trust. I'm chairman
of the board of Trust. We're both the same age, and we both have the same mission of how do we touch as many people as we can around the world, and so that became something really endearing to both of us. So we're working with that together. So we're in every country in the world now. So give me, give me an forty years broken, I'll have it all worked out. Okay, Well,
I hope you keep having those now what moments? And I think that this is another one, and it's it's stemming from a really beautiful place and with an even more open heart, which I didn't think was possible. But you keep doing it feels like it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And thank you so much for spending this time with me. I love I love this format of now we can. We can just meet on your podcast every two weeks or whatever you want to. I
am here and I'm ready for you. Anytime you want, you need something from me, or you want me to talk about something. We got it. I will, I would gladly do it. Well. You will hear from me off and on for the rest of your life, so don't worry about it. Perfect. That was the incredible Lionel Richie. If you want to hear more from him, head over to Lionel Richie dot com to get tickets for his latest tour. That is it for us today, Talk to you next week now. What with Brookshields is a production
of iHeartRadio. Our lead producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and editing by Darby Masters and Abou Zafar. Our executive producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahed Fraser.