How Jessica Capshaw’s life motto helped her move on after Grey’s

Some stories are funny, others are cut wrenching, but all are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice answers one question, now what. I'm definitely a big believer that everything is figured outible except for in which is ironic because of obviously what people know me from. The only way that you can really really freak me to funk out, as if there's blood, Like I'm very calm

in most emergencies, I'm actually calm. Blood is the thing that does you. But the minute that there's actual, real amounts of blood, I'm like, I'm out, I'm out, I don't care. I would like turn on a child. Did you have to have scenes with blood and graze? I knew that that was like the flavored colored corn syrup. That didn't bother me. It's not real blood. That voice you just heard is Jessica Capshop. Jessica is an actress, a wife, a businesswoman, and a mom to four amazing kids.

She got her start in film and TV back in the nineties, but really made her mark as the beloved doctor Arizona Robbins in Grey's Anatomy. I personally was a huge fan, and I would tune in each week to watch her character's amazing arc and love story with surgeon Dr Calli Torres. She's a ball of energy and positivity, and I'm so happy to share her perspective and her personal story with you all. Here is Jessica Capshaw. I'm

talking to Jessica Capshaw. So excited, um, and I want to really thank you for for your for your time, but also because I know that you take your responsibilities to heart. You to me, have always seemed like someone who's really honored and been appreciative of where you were and what you were doing at that moment. By the way. That means so much to me that that you say that, because I feel that I think that gratitude is probably my number one priority. I do feel like everything sort

of enumerates from there. How did you get how did you find that? How did you find that? Because you've always done that, You've always been like there was a presence that was just in the moment, no matter what the moment was. I'm curious as to how did you learn it over time? I think I think, yeah, I mean,

I think that you know, it's interesting. And I was talking to a bunch of girls of friends about a million different things, and I'm so I'm so lucky that I have, you know, incredible people in my life to talk to about all things, because it really that helps you have a new one. By the way, I'm not a you know, I'm not a sit on it person. I'm like to talk about it person, and I'll be a wave about it. I will just keep crashing on people's shores. And kids love that. But kids love talking

about the feelings, talking about it some more. But I think that, you know, part of the reason that we talk about things, whether you're talking to your girlfriends, or you're in therapy, or you're hashing something out, or you go to you know, a support professional or whatever it is. I think that what we're all getting towards is I would like to know how I was put together, Like

my child is important. My childhood is important to me because I want to know how I was put together, not because I want to flame or a sign who I am to you know, X, Y or Z, thing that happened that one of my parents did or did not do for me, or that the world did or did not do for me. Um. And so my my my point is that as an adult, that I find that perspective emboldening in a way that leads me straight to gratitude. And I feel like straight gratitude is the

straight road to joy. Were you always like this, like, no, no, you're You're a little kid. You're in You grew up in Missouri, Missouri. Okay, so you said Missouri or Missouri miss I was born in Missouri to um Bob cat Sean and Kathy sou Now. And they met at University of Missouri, and both of them were going into education, and in the first iteration of their lives, they um,

we're going to be teachers. And they fell in love and then they had me, and all that was really great and wonderful, and um then during their teaching life, someone said to my mom. You know, I think there was some There was one girl from her community that had ended had landed herself on the cover of like seventeen magazine, and then everybody around her was like, oh my god, kath you're so pretty. You can be on

the cover of seventeen magazine, Like why couldn't you? So you should, you should take some pictures and go to the city. So Bob took some pictures in the backyard that are amazing. She and Bob got on a plane with their like, you know, more, ha spent having spent more money on one weekend than they would spend in six months living in She went into Eileen Ford's office and Eileen signed her on the spot, and she had a she had a modeling agent. And then they I know,

and then they moved with me. And then they almost immediately I knew that they were not meant for each other and got divorced separated when I was about two and a half or three. And did they both stay in New York? They both stayed in New York for a bit, and then my mom started really working, So you kind of had a single mom in a in a way. Did you stay and like did you have

a relationship with your dad? It was tough. You know, I look back on it and and now having kids and just you know, the calamity that is divorced, like just I mean, and again I know that good things are born of it, but it's just such a tough tough thing, right when the splitting responsibilities and splitting families, and you know, I was a little girl, and when they got divorced, it was also just a really tough time financially, emotionally, and again you know, with many years

between that and and now, it was really really hard. It was really really hard. I don't bemoan it because I don't know that I would be who I am without it. Do you think that that was a now what moment for you and that sort of era? I think I think that that at that time, I think every moment wasn't now what, and and the now what

was kind of like the answer to now what? Was keep going So in a weird way in my adult life, I feel like because I was, you know, I was reading over all the amazing things that you talk about and the and the concept behind the podcast, and I was thinking that really, truly, I feel pretty strongly that my answer to know what has always been keep going. And that's for good or bad, by the way, because there's sometimes you shouldn't keep going and you should stop

and you need to like figure out the moment. But the way that I was put together, my my default setting is just keep going, and I would keep going until whatever the adversity was or whatever the challenge was had had calmed itself or quiet itself to a level at which I felt I could handle, and then I could address it. So and so, if to be a little more specific, I think we all have these moments, but to hear it from you, I think it would

it would sort of help listeners. What are some of those now what moments that really stick out for you? I think that maybe one of my first professional now what moments was, you know, I had gone to graduated high school. Um, I had many friends who were, you know, on or around my age that had sort of foregone typical or traditional college routes to be like, I'm gonna go have at it with this career in acting or

music or whatever, and they had succeeded. And so again kind of like you know, people saying to my mom, that girl over there and that county got a cover of seventeen. Kathy, you should go and do it. I was like, oh, I could do this, right because I have friends that are doing it up. For sure, I can do this. So you graduated from high school in one and then you went to and then I ended

up going to Brown. But by the way, I mean talk about like moments where you're like if you could go back in time and just like smack someone upside the head. I was very excited to go to college. I was very grateful that I had figured out a way to get into school that I was so excited about. But there was also this part of me that just sort of felt like, let's get on with it, Like I'm ready to be an actress, now, why why do I need to go to school? Like this is cute.

It happened, and you're kind of at that time, Yeah, this is cute. I'll just I'll do this for you know, I'll just grow up. I'll just mature a little bit and then I'll get on to the real business. Um. Anyways, I started going after it, if you will, and like the world that I wanted was I was not booking the jobs. It was you know, at first it was like not even a call back. Then it was a call back. Then it got to be like me, like

between you and the girl who got it. But then it just sort of stayed there seemingly intermint was just like between you and the girl who got it away, it's always you and it's all but it's down to you and somebody else. But then then the somebody else always gets it. People don't realize that we get rejected and don't get much a part so much more right, totally completely, So you were what you and your mom's remarried. My mom's remarried. My mom met my stepfather when I

was fifteen. They got married, but we mom met when we were six. I you know, sort of considered I got a bonus dad and you got a bonus famous dad, which is which is interesting, Like that didn't make anything more simple that to simplify things, having Steven Spielberg as your stepdad and wanting to be in this business and having it be frustrating, how do you grapple with that? Did you talk to your mom about it? Did you?

I mean we talked about it all the time, because we're in a family that's very like name it to tamous. We talked again, we're talkers. But I think that I think that our family has always really felt strongly that to who much has given, much is expected, and part of what is expected is an understanding of what's really necessary. So all of the people in my life that were role models worked really hard. They happened to work in businesses that obviously got attention in a very specific and

directional way. But for me, it felt very much like whatever wrote I was going to go down was certainly going to have to be earned. I mean, I saw, however, my parents were tonight, and I saw that there was a lot of times that they didn't get what they wanted, or that they made something and they put all of their heart into it and it wasn't met with the kind of reaction that they wanted it to be met with.

There's there's deep disappointment in work. I mean, you and I both know that this business is a constant hustle, and your mom and your stepdad had to hustle constantly. Mean, did they ever give you any advice? Always? Always, but it was but it was I don't know. I was also so independent. I don't know, I feel like, I'm I hear about you know, about the eighteen nineteen year olds, twenty year olds talking to their parents about this, that and the other, and I always said, gosh, not that

all of them are the same. But it didn't it doesn't resonate with me because I didn't want anybody's help. I was like, I've got this. I don't actually even want your opinion because I'm gonna because if I get your opinion and then I don't listen to it, I'm gonna feel some sort of responsibility to that where there's gonna be some friction or conflict between us. And the truth is, I just want to make my own decisions.

So basically, like twenty two, my decisions were landing me and you know, I mean, and I was like, I mean again, hustling. I mean, I would I remember having like five editions a day and having my ap fits in the car and changing and then you know, going back out again and being in all the different lots when you know, you'd go from one studio to the next studio and you'd be auditioning, and pilot season was the craziest. So that leads me to this. Everybody thought

they were real actress. The real actors were intell in film and that if you were in television you were sort of less. Then do you remember that period? Oh yeah, No, I was and that and I was in television at that point. I didn't say. Was that probably right around when you were a giant hit and television well, and I don't know about that, but I was definitely in

the less the less than the category. And I remember seeing um Helen Hunt and mad about You and thinking, Okay, if she can do this, she's I looked at her as that thespien and I looked at the film actress, and I was like, she's doing this television show. That is my permission. I am going to go for this because I believe that this is a medium that I can I can really kind of stick my teeth into. So you're auditioning. So was auditioning for all this film

and I wasn't getting it. And then my first pilot season came and again like five auditions a day, and all of a sudden, I went from going on auditions and hearing nothing back to all of a sudden, like I wasn't even out the door and my cell phone would be ringing and they'd be like they want to they want to test you, and this in this day and the test deals coming and I was like, this is the best and this is the best ever for people that don't know, pilot season is when all described me,

you really don't have a pilot season anymore. I mean this that was the era and not that's not really the same. But all the scripts come in and all at once, it's as if everybody is trying to get

into seven or ten yeah shows. Yeah, and they're competing, they're competing for actors, and you're in the room with people, which is like, well, you go sit in that room and you're looking at all these other girls and you're all trying to get the same thing, and you're and you think you're the only one that thought, you know of the idea to where you know what an x fill in the blank, right, like the prairie skirt or the you know, the cowboy hat or whatever it is.

And then you walk into the room and every fucking girl in there was got a prairie skirt or a cab. I thought I was I thought I was so prepared and I was going on on a limb. I was really showing myself. Um. But so that was when I ended up shifting and then I really got a taste of what it felt like to succeed. So I do this pilot and it was called odd Man Out and we should ended up shooting you know, ten episodes and

then we got canceled. But it was also on the Warner Brothers lot at the time that it felt like again, I just graduate from college. So I was like I went from one campus to another campus because the Warner Brothers a lot at that time. All the different stages housed the shows in sort of like a unit, and we were right next to eat Our and I was Staged six. Oh you were there too, Yeah, so you were across from Friends because they were Stage twenty four.

I was across from friends, and I started I started at Friends and then got suddenly Susan. So I was at Stage twenty six. But going into that lot, when you with you, when you get to go in the right land because you have a pass, did you have a parking spot? Um? Hello? Was this series regular? Brook? Hello? I know it was magical to be there. I mean to go to the commissary and say, liked be like, hey, what's up George Clooney, that's going to say the commissary.

I have a George Clooney commissary story, and I was brazen. I mean, I look back on myself now and I die because I mean, I guess I haven't changed, but I just had like major moxie. I would go up to anyone at any time and I would just be like, how's it going. I mean I did that too, and so because so so that gets canceled and then it was grace on that lot. Now, so how does that? How do you get to I mean, if you were to fast forward, basically, what ends up happening is that

I do that. I realized how much I love comedy. And yet what I then realized is is that once that experience is done, I'm put back into the world of the film business, where I sort of never quite deliver. I mean, I end up doing like you know, at the time, like hor movies, where a big thing to do, and I did want like a Warner Brothers. One was that frustrating to you was that it was sort of I mean, at that point in life, truly, it was also a means to an end, like I had to

make money, like you had to make money. So a lot of things, not that I don't really remember doing that, they can tell you like one or two jobs that I was like, I really would not have done that unless I needed money. But there have been so many times where I've just been at the very very tipping point of like should I be doing this anymore? And then here's your next chapter. So for me at that point, it was The Practice, which is this legal show that

David Kelly was doing. I got the Practice, and I was probably ten dollars in credit cardit and I my first episode paycheck like literally like cleared that and then um, and then I got out, and then I went back to again pilots, doing pilots everything else. Then I ended up doing a pilot for You'll remember them because they were NBC, UM David Cohen and Max Munchnik, and I

signed it to their show. And then I find out I'm pregnant with our first son, and I go to them and I'm like, I'm so sorry, which, of course, looking back on it now, I don't know why we as women go like I'm so sorry I'm pregnant, but um, I was pregnant. We shot the pilot anyway. Again, they never had a show that wasn't picked up, and this was their first. Oh god, well that's probably blessing because you had then you had the baby, but it's going forth.

So then you go forward, you have this baby. Right now, you've got a new baby. So he's like two weeks old. And I get a phone call from my agent who says, I would never ask you to do this, but I know this is your favorite show. They're they're doing. You know, they've got a really juicy guest starring part on Gray's Anatomy coming up? Do you want to go in? And I was like, what, Like, I'm like lactating, I'm a mess.

This is there's no way in the world. And so but I did it and I somehow like grabbed it, like put it all together. It was the first time I met Shonda and it was a great and I read what it was for a part that I didn't get and I end up reading with Patrick Dempsey because it was like a love interest. But I didn't get the job. Then I kept trying to get jobs, kept trying to get jobs. I didn't. I didn't. I get hold again for Grays one more time for a different part.

I go in, I don't get it, and I'm really starting to question, like maybe this is I don't want to live like this, Like this is just so hard. Did you have a backup plan? Like did you have a I love writing, and I did think to myself I could write. But I ended up getting one more phone call that basically said, we've auditioned twice. We really do love you. We're thinking she's thinking about creating a role for you to come in for a three episode arc. And I said, okay, great, I'll believe it when I

see it. I got it. I went, I had three episodes. I was I couldn't have been happier. And that was Dr Arizona. That was Doctor Arizona Weapons. Now, between the time that it was the three episodes and it becomes a series regular, was that a quick because I remember

when you because I was obsessed with the show. Then I remember when you came on and I was so well, I was happy for Cathie obviously, um, you know, I just take it very personally, but that it was such a amazing thing to sort of see this relationship between these two women. Really for one of the first times I had ever really fully seen that I want to vision. So when I got the first script, it was just she was the peds surgeon. And then the third group

comes out. I get called to Shaunda's office. I mean, well, part of me really was just trying to like like blend in so that no one would ask me to leave, Like I just kept feeling if nobody like I'm just doing, don't worry about me, just stay. But I knew that the third was my last, and so I get this phone call and should go into her office. And at

that time, she was really truly like writing editing. It was Gray's Grays, Grays, Grays Gray, so she was super busy and I remember going in there and she in my memory it was sort of like the table read. We're gonna have the table read. The third episode is out, and you're gonna have a relationship with Cali? Are you cool with that? And I remember the first words coming out of my mouth like yeah, totally. I was on

the L word. Oh god, it had been on the L word, Like of course it could be a lesbian. I've already been a lesbian. I can do that, okay, But so then did it happen pretty quickly then was it That episode was the Dirty Bar Bathroom Kissed. So we went into which if you look back on it, like, I would love to see how it all tracks, because the truth is, again we had zero connectivity. I didn't

even have any scenes together. And then all of a sudden, I'm like laying one honor in the bathroom and shows and I think it was like episode eleven or twelve of season five, and then I think they said, like, can we have her for three more? And then it was through the rest of that season and then it was pilot season again. So I had a decision to make because I needed a job, and I remember saying Toshanda,

like should I go out for pilot season? Because of course I wanted her to say, no, you need to stay here with us, and she did it. She would not give it to me, and she said, well if you if you want to, So I auditioned first. I started editioning for stuff and I end up getting a test deal offer for her Parenthood, which went on to become a huge show. And I was like, okay, so now should I test for Parenthood or do you or do you want me to stay? And she was like,

you should do whatever. You want, like, damn it, Oh god, that's so frustrating. But then we got to the end of the year and then and I obviously ended up not testing her parenthood, and I just decided to bet on Gray's. And then I remember when I did get picked up, when when my option got picked up. Um, I was just ecstatic, ecstatic right now. Okay, so then that's you. You're in that for ten years and during which you have how many more children? Three during So

how did they how did they deal with that? Because they never dealt with it. I was never pregnant on the show. They just film you from the neck up. I can't well, you know, I know know they they this is I, this is not I'm not insulting myself by saying this. I have a full face. I've always had a full face. It's not like you always look so young by the way. I've always had a full face. So when I was pregnant, the part of me that changed was my mid I would be behind a lot

of counters. Oh yeah, well, that's easy in a hospital, I guess. I have the X rays, like the big X rays. I'd just be holding them during conversations. Did that bother you though, like, did it because you know? It's funny if you go online. I mean, I love how personal people take these things. And if you sort of go online a little bit, you'll see that fans are bothered by it. Did it bother you that that

was the direction they went with it? No, because you're acting, you know, I mean, I understand that now we get to know people and a actor is in a more intimate way, but you're playing a part. But that's so interesting that you say that, because just to sort of shift a little bit in the l g b t Q community, right, you're you were in the l Word, you are in Grey's Anatomy, and now there's so much um discussion about actually um casting lgbt Q actors for

these roles. Do you have an opinion on that? I think it's a wildly compelling conversation. I don't think that there's any right answer. I think because ultimately, if there's a right answer, then some people have to be wrong. And I sort of don't. I like the answers that that move in the direction of like, well, who's being represented here and why and what does it feel this way or that way about it? UM? I can say that that likely, given the way that things are right now,

I wouldn't have had the opportunity to play her. It's as you're right, it's there's no right or wrong answer, and I do think it is a very interesting conversation to have. But like you said, you know, at that point, you were playing a role in a character, and you're doing it for ten years. People love that relationship, They love you altogether. Take me a little bit fast forward to the moment you realize that you're going to leave. Did you was that your decision? What it was? It was?

It was truly a super now looking back on it, it was a super, super super complicated situation. I think that I thought it was complicated then, but I actually look back on it now, and a lot of times when you get ahead of stuff and you look back, things seem a little clearer, but there's still parts of

it that are a little blurry. I sort of remember saying, and I think I still feel the same way, which is that I feel like there's certainly there, certainly will be a time and place for anybody who's actually still interested and or I'm not sure which you know, direction it will it will need to be told in it just hasn't come yet. How did you decide then, okay, so this happens. How did you keep doing? Moving forward?

From all of a sudden you don't get a call sheet, you don't get a script, You're now no longer a part of some thing that has been such an integral part of your career in your life. How do you move forward? My particular way is you just keep going? And so it wasn't um, it wasn't a huge, huge I mean, yes I didn't have a call sheet, and yes I didn't have that. I didn't know that I wasn't on call all the time like I had been.

But I was still living the same life. I was still the same mother, I was still the same partner. I was still the same daughter and community member. I just didn't have this piece of my life as my my work. Do you think that having that foundation and the family, how do you think that affected that perspective of being an actress? Well? I remember it goes back to something. I mean you asked if my parents gave

advice my mom. I remember after I filmed my first movie on location, and I had a million firsts, right, I mean, I completely I was in love with you know, the cast that I was with, the show that I was on, the lifestyle, the whole thing. And then I came home and I was like deeply depressed. And I called my mom as like, I'm so depressed. What do you do after you do this thing that you love so much and then you come home and you have nothing. You have no you know, routine, you have no structure

of nothing, nothing. I have nothing. And my mom said, let's take a breath in this business, like the work we do is so enjoyable and can be mistaken for real life. And she said, you have to realize that you go and you do a job and then you live your life. Your life is not your job, and your job is not your life. So I took that very seriously. I was living my life. I just had

this job. So when I was done, I think the way that I if I categorize it as like just keep going, it was like honor that last bit, which I did, and I journal the ship out of my life, and I just I wrote letters and I got letters, and I you know, all the things that meant so much to me, and I looked at what, you know, where I was when I started and where I ended, and like the impact then and I just went, Okay, what's going to be my next job? Like what do I want? What do I want to do? Are you

experiencing this over? I think because you have a round your face, I think you will perpetually look young. Who wasn't like Katherine to have said, at a certain age, you have to pick between your ass and your face. It's like when I gain weight, people think I look younger. Yeah, have you felt ages? And like if you felt I don't know if it's like my avoidant nature combined with my like peppy optimism, that's like just it's like, please,

I don't know, I mean truly the past. I think it's been what it's been like three or four years since Grace ended. I mean it was it's been an interesting time. And I don't know that I can fairly like report in either direction, because you know, when I left there, I knew I had to take a minute. It was just too big of a job. And I was and I was so clear. I mean still when people see me, it's like am I Jessica Capture or am I Arizona Robbins? Right? Like you're so that's like

a duel that's a blessing and a curse. I mean, it's totally and I'm again, I mean I couldn't be luckier, and like I really feel for the ones, for the people who play these like really deeply convincing villains, and I'm like, oh, I would not want to walk through life like well, and then people missing to hug me all the time. I mean, they miss you on you know, they miss you on the show, which is good, but now you're playing you're finally playing a mom. I know,

I know. It's on Hulu, right, Yes, it's on Hulu. It's a limited series, and um it is a it's based on a book called Tell Me Lies, where it's just all about this insanely toxic relationship but it's got like mystery and intrigue and maybe a little soft porny but not totally soft porny. Not me, by the way, and not me I am not naked in it, um but by the way. So that's so that's what has been the interesting part was that I left G I

sort of knew I needed to take a minute. Then I had actually committed to do something that we went to go shoot and like our table read was March thirteenth, the year the world shut down, and then it was COVID, and then I had four children, and talk about when I really knew I had four children was during COVID.

And then this last year I got this phone call um because I had danished a Netflix be with Emma Roberts and she was producing this show and she said, will you come and play this like cool mom person? And I was like yeah. But we also definitely did have moments where they would be looking through the camera and be like, I'm not I don't completely understand the

math here because she's eighteen. I think she's eighteen in the show, and he would do both on camera and they'd be like, Okay, great, we're just gonna go with the math, being like you had a really young like I don't know, like when do you when do you have I don't know, Like you just remember thinking you guys were sisters. Well I don't know the sisters, but I think that. But I do think that, and I

just clearly wasn't paying attention. I do think Hollywood does seem to do that, which I think is irritating for moms to be like unrealistically young like you know what I mean, like one more thing that Hollywood does I know or kind of bizarre. I'm like why, Like what's what's even the point of it? I don't even understand what it's solved, or even in love interests like love interests like they'll you'll have like someone who's much much older as a man will have like a twenty something.

You're old actors playing the part of the ground, whereas it doesn't work in reverse. No, I know, I think that acting after forty, given to day's um climate and today's possibilities in where from where I sit, has turned into a little bit more. I'm not so sure that I'm not going to have to be a part of creating what it is that I want to do next, like the now what might have to be something that

comes from me. That was the wonderful Jessica Capshaw. If you want to see more of her, check out her new film Dear Zoe or the Hulu series Tell Me Lies. If you want to hear more from me, well, subscribe to this podcast now What with Brookshields on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Now What is produced by the wonderful Julia Weaver with help from Darby mass Our. Executive producer is Christina Everett. The

show is mixed by Bahid Fraser and Christian Bowman. A special thanks to nicky Etre and Will Pearson.