How Bethenny Frankel honed her instincts

What do you do when life doesn't go according to plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this is now What a podcast about pivotal moments as told by people.

Who lived them.

Each week, I sit down with a guest to talk about the times they were knocked off course and what they did to move forward. Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice answers one question, now.

What.

Did you ever have any idols or icons that you looked up to, either beauty wise, talent wise.

No, just people that I love, like crushes like the Matt Deale Ends of the World and the Andrew McCarthy's and to me later on, to me Moore, she really, I really did, Like I thought she was amazing.

I did too and do later on like.

That Era that was like she was a god to me, Like when she shaved her head, I was like, there is a there is a god for me.

It was more around about last night and like I say, it almost fire. I just thought, she's such a cool actress and she has just such this great life, and she's a rob low in this movie and that like that, that's why that that documentary that's coming out, The Brat Pack is going to be so amazing because it's such an interesting time in our lives. And they were the kids that were like that got it and then it later it was like nine oh two, one oh.

Hello, listeners, did you miss me? I really hope you missed me. I took some time off to shoot a movie in Thailand, and while it was an absolute blast, I'm really excited to be back home in New York and back in front of the mic, ready to share with you all. Today's guest is a great one. Bethany Frankel. She is a widely successful entrepreneur, a New York Times bestselling author and og of the Real Housewives franchise, a podcaster, a beauty influencer, and most importantly, a mom to a

Hi, Hi, how's it going.

It's going? Well, it really, really really is. It's just a lot.

Yeah.

I am so happy to have you on the show. I feel like I am so busy.

But then I look at you and I think, oh god, I don't know how you keep it all together.

I don't know.

I think I like, I had a sort of wanting to retire, kind of like doing less, and I was, and then now it's a little busier.

But I don't like to be overtly busy.

I don't like define happiness by like the calendar being full.

I don't define that as misery.

I agree. So what do you like in particular? Do you like vacation? Do you like a balance?

You know, I'm the problem is it's either boredom and nothing, like I'm sitting around in pajamas and never leaving the house, or a day like yesterday where I'm doing back to back interviews and stacking and feel like I was abused by the end of the day. So it's not there's not It's hard to find a balance because I'm not a person that really I don't like shop or lunch as an activity, so I'm always just in pajamas and so I kind of do everything's whatever activity I do with my daughter.

So it's I'm kind of boring.

And your daughter is thirteen.

Yes, yep, she's thirteen.

Tell me a little bit about the joy of a thirteen year old girl.

Honestly, I feel like I'm supposed to really complain about this crazy time. She's pretty I don't know, she's pretty easy, and it's weird because she's thirteen and everyone's saying it's this crazy time, and people kept talking about tween and tween and tween.

I think it hits at a different time. I got one of mine hit then and the other one didn't, and then just hit later.

It's like I feel I think my theory is.

That they they have to find reasons to hate us to justify becoming independent because there are babies. They really don't technically want to leave us, especially if they don't really hate us.

Right, I get Yeah, I mean, I maybe I'll find out later. I mean, we definitely have our moments, but I don't know. I kind of like snap back on the leash. I don't really allow for a lot of

Do you see similarities in the two of you of when you were that age?

I don't remember being that age at all. I really don't remember anything. I was very adult, very young. I was going into night club I mean, so were you. I was going into nightclubs, you know, like the Palladium and the Tunnel at fourteen. So I can't even believe that they are little kids. And they are a little kids. So I don't understand how I was and a little kid. I don't because it's not about who taught you, like it's like, what did I look like?

I don't know.

I just don't understand how I was doing adult things at that age when I look at her.

I mean, you've spoken about this, so I'm not saying anything that you haven't already said. But it was far as how you grew up. You said that it was a tough childhood. Your parents divorced right when you were really young. Yes, and because your dad was he was a famous horse trainer, and that mean you had to move around a lot. Yes, how did your mom? Did your mom just like give you such free rein or yeah?

I mean I just read that's such a long conversation. That's just growing up at the racetrack and growing up in a very fast life and a lot of substance abuse and just not a child you know, physical abuse, a lot of cop calling and crazy stuff, so not a lot of childhood. They're just like dealing with stuff that adults were dealing with.

How do you think that shaped you?

I don't know specifically.

I know that I was just always like alert and analytical and a wreck in my house. That there's but I just you don't know any different.

There was just well, you don't know what to expect when you're living in a house that has alcoholism or any type of substance abuse.

You eating disorder, bolimia, alcoholism, drugs, like I kind of had it all gambling, It was all like it was I lived in a crazy house. But it wasn't it was fun house kind of it was action. I don't even know to say it was an action house. It was a lot going on.

There was a lot of moving.

They were either just we had only a card table in the house or six cars in the driveway.

My mother used to bring in people. I'd be like, who's the that isn't that the kid from the gas station? And she'd be like, yeah, he needs a place to say.

Oh yeah, well I had.

We had a lot of stragglers, but ours were like gamblers and like bookies, bookmakers and like jockeys agents.

It was a lot of men and there was a lot. There's a lot of like degenerates living in my house.

How did you protect yourself against the from them?

I don't know. I don't.

I'm I think it's why I am the way I am now. I'm extremely tough. That's why, don't you know? I I'm beyond resilient. And tough and like I could, there's not much I can't deal with and so I'm just used to that.

I'm used to that survival mode. Yeah, it's fucked up. I was.

I grew up in a very, very fucked up environement. I like, I try to think about it, and I'm like, that's insane, Like it just it's not even like woe is me because I am so tough, so it doesn't matter, like who cares? But it's it's and it's not a shield I'm covering up or anything. I definitely am emotional sometimes I'm just feeling emotional about it right now. But I don't think about it that often, not because I've blocked it out.

I just it's so long ago.

Just it's just it's, you know, I grew up in a nasty, nasty house.

I've fet so hard for a child without a sibling. Yes, it makes you tough, and you know, I don't know if you get sick of being called a survivor, but I'm always called a survivor. And when I think about how many different ways my life could have gone and why I didn't become a complete fuck up or self destruct, I don't know why or how was there. I just am curious for you if there was a moment in your life that you think you see could have gone a very very different way.

I think I was very analytic. I'm I'm.

I was always alone and I was always thinking. I just remember always being analytical and trying to analyze it because no one was telling me anything, and I had no guidance and I didn't have any role models, and so I was always working things out on my own. And I see my see that in myself now. I'm always working things out of my own and playing chess in my head and figuring out how it's going to happen and fix it, and and often do. I don't

Did you have best friends, like did you have best, best loyal friends?

I had different I since high school, yes, but as a child child, yes, different.

People along the way.

But we I went to thirteen school, so I was never in this school two years in a row.

And was that because you moved Why why was that?

Yeah, because my step we moved. We moved a lot. We moved a lot lot, like from the city aso.

Far as we're running away from something or.

In one case my stepfather said that the mafia was after us. In another case it was like moving on up. It's the same thing with the card table and the six cars in the driveway. It was just like a very it's a racetrack lifestyle. You have to like understand it to know it. But anybody who's listening, who knows anybody who grew up around the race truck, it's just this like bizarre, dysfunctional action gambling highs and lows lifestyle.

My mother just used to do it at the Delhi. We only like did our picks through the Delhi.

Oh yeah, no, Like I was going to Vegas at thirteen at the craps tables. And because my stepfather, who was a horse trainer, his uncle was Don Rickles manager. So we'd all go for three weeks to Vegas and gamble, and then we'd go to Saratoga this summer to the racetrack and I didn't go to camp or anything.

I would sit at the jockeys room and.

That kind of where gambling is involved. How did did that teach you anything about business?

I would say just the racetrack taught me so much about just street smarts and competition.

Winning.

There's no you know, nobody cares who came second in the Kentucky Derby. Although it's such an incredible accomplishment just to get to the Kentucky Derby, it doesn't it's a touching.

Story if you lose by a nose.

So just winning, just just winning and competition and action and highs and lows and and upstairs downstairs, you know, like the racetrack is an amazing place where billionaires and.

Uh hot, I was a hot walker.

That's the person who cools the horses off in the morning, you know, walking them around the shed. But billionaires and grooms of horses interact. You know, it's a down n abby type of upstairs downstairs thing. So I'm kind of great in any situation. I can inter act with anyone and do.

And just good life skills.

You know.

It's it's a world, it's an environment, and it's pretty tough.

What about instincts do you think it because I don't with gambling or gamble is where do instincts play a role in gambling. Is there such a thing?

I think it's more the instincts are more about being so heightened from all the earlier childhood stuff. If you like our people, there are there are studies about people. People who are children of addicts or dysfunction or abuse pick up on so many more things in other people than just people who had normal lives, because it's these not just triggers, but it's just it's this noise inside of you. It's just something that you just can You

I think I was an adult so very early.

Don't resent it, never poor me, don't have a pity moment in my life.

I don't. I think it made me sharper.

We were definitely bohemian, and just one minute we were here in the next minute, we were there, and my mother, would you know, it got to the point where she would just pick up jobs for me by meeting some random person, and you just had to go along with it.

We just had different worries and different growing up too. The kids are worried about other things, like it seems really big to them. The stuff that happens at school, like homework is overwhelming.

And daunting for them.

So maybe I didn't care that much about Homer, but they think it's such so stressful when you know most of them are going to end up being fine if they don't pass that one test, but they're stressed out about so many things. So it's just different types of stress.

I think.

I called this show now What because it's about those pivotal moments in people's lives, and you've had I'm sure many, and I usually wait for this question at the end, but there's so many of those moments that I believe you must have had. Is there one that sticks out.

Like as a positive? This is amazing kind of moment, Like any.

Kind, there are positives, there are negatives, there are scary ones, there are all there's no where you just sort of said Okay, now what do I do?

Oh, I mean, I have a it just popped in. Two things popped into my head, and one was when I didn't get to be on the Apprentice Donald Trumps season two because the regular person's Apprentice, because I was broken. I just wanted some help to I was in my thirties too, to like get a job and be something, because no one is really ever going to take care of me. And I wasn't anywhere and I wasn't successful, I had no money, and I was a mayor. I just like so that was a real blow to not

Still was young and all that.

That was one and the other one was I don't know that I actually felt this then, but I thought of it when you just said it was when I was on the cover of Forbes magazine, because that was insane and crazy and ridiculous, like that's a ridiculous thing that happened to me. That's insane, and by the way, that's held up like ill. I will tell anybody who would ask, like, that's like my sort of claim to fame.

But those are two very, very different.

Well I would say that I don't think, yeah, one hit wonder is not what comes to mind when I think that.

But those are two.

Incredibly polarized experiences.

Yes, how did you interpret them? What did you did? You just laugh at it?

I guess one is the result of the I mean one was like, this was gonna be my chance and I was going to get a job. I just wanted a job the first time. I just wanted a job that was consistent that and to prove that I could get there, because I bet somebody in a restaurant someone said you would never get on that show. You might, you know, I will get on that show or something. And I said, you mark my words, I'll get on that show. And I didn't even know how to get

And then I didn't get it.

Did you do that on your own accord or they set that up?

No, they do.

It's this whole thing that no one ever talks about. I don't know why they don't talk about the process. It's like a military thing. You go to the Double Tree Hotel in Santa Monica for one week, and every day it's like emotional psychological test. You're not allowed to talk to another human being. You're in your your own room alone and you can all go downstairs for fifteen minutes to go get lunch, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but you cannot make eye contact. You can't talk to anyone

So that was a low.

And everybody always pretends that they just landed on these shows, like it just happened. You just fell off of an apprentice tree, when it's so intense.

How did you not become bitter?

Because I'm not like that.

I'm just like I got banged up and I put the band aids on and then that was it. And then I went to the Kentucky Derby that year actually and like drank and had fun and finaggled and figured out like how to afford to go there and stay in a hotel room with a bunch of different people, And then I ended up getting onto the Martha Stewart Apprentice of Mark Burnett, and I took another whole week and got to I.

Mean, all I had was weeks.

I was broke, and it was actually a place where you're being fed and it's free for the week, because I was totally broke.

But then that week I nailed it.

Was that the start of financial and business success.

The very that was the very start that was like a kernel. That was not really the start, that was fool's gold because I didn't I was the runner up, and so then I was like just still broke, and like that show was a failure. And so now like you think you're like a little something, but nobody else thinks that because no one saw I mean eleven million people saw it, but now that now it was the equivalent of five hundred thousand people seeing it. That was

Of Did you did you always like cooking or do you went to a culinary school?

Correct?

I went to culinary school, and I always was interested in food and health and food and healing, and yes, cooking at like that le some level, yeah, but not like iron chef level, and having living my life in like scrubs, I mean scrubs in chef whites and like meissan plas and onions and living in the food and the chaos of a kitchen. That's not my personality.

It's it's so when I was doing my research and you've had so many, so many different professional jobs and you just kept going forward. But part of business and you're such an extraordinary I think instincts. You know, you have such a good sense for what to promote.

What why does everybody think this about me? Like, I know that people know about skinny girl and all that stuff, but I'm not even fishing for co I literally want to know because you keep saying and a lot of people say this to me. I'm like, I have a business, Like I have a lot of different things going on, and yes I'm successful, but like, why does everybody think that, like I'm such this like business gangster?

I don't, I think, but I think part of it's true because I think part of business gangsterdom one of the things that's very important is knowing when to walk away.

Oh okay, but that's a huge.

Skill and you don't you can't teach that to somebody. So I think that there are things that are that are instinctual, and I do think to be able to create brands, to be in tune to the zeitgeist or what your brand is or why it's registering with people.

Yes, that's huge.

But knowing when to walk away when I mean, you did it famously more than once.

Yeah, and that just takes balls. I think, you know how did you know?

Well? It's funny.

It's it's the it's the all roads lead to Rome, or the two right roads diverged in it would either one would be a different road, and they'd be equally. You know, if I stayed on the Housewives, I'd be a little bit more of a joke and a little less taken seriously. But I'd turn that into something else and I'd be the most successful clown over there and over here. But I just I do know what to do. I know how to play chess. I understand what the

It baffles me, and my daughters have said to me, why can't you be more like Bethany Mom Sash, She's TikTok, TikTok, the whole thing, Like you've mastered it, and you've you've become a rather like a beauty influencer, and you've made it so accessible to all ages. What's the behind the scenes like of that.

It's complete, It's complete bullshit. So it's total bullshit, but everything, so many things are bullshit, and they're just wrapped in a non bullshit bo if it's wrapped up in a filter and a brand deal and an influencer who is doing a commercial twenty four hours a day, which is frightening for our youth because I'm influenced and I know how this all gets made and I know what it is, and I'm a marketing expert, like I can't even say any other word, and I'm sitting here wanting to get

So I was like, is it? What is it?

Is there an endgame to it?

No? I never had no. It was just a natural curiosity. I wanted to learn how to do my own makeup, no problem. And then I was watching I was like, I want to be I want that glow and I want that snatch and I want that blur and I want to buy that and buy it now, and buy it now by. And then I bought it now and I was like, this is the same.

Shit we've had forever.

And I went to the drug store and compared it to something that's some makeup artist left or that some brand sent, you know, some fancy thing, and it's the same shit. So I had no idea, and I started just saying, this is this is garbage. I know, this is garbage, this is a this was Gucci, this is crap, this is Shanellis's crap, and this is Shanellis is good and this is why I sell it's crap, and this is why I sell it's good.

And it was just the truth. It was nothing. I had no goal, and everyone.

Was like speculating and she's doing a line and it all had to be so sinister, and it wasn't. It was necessary to talk about women that want to get the hell out the door in ten minutes and that they're being influenced and they think this is real.

But also, do you know the significance of the younger that this has on the younger demographic. To see a woman in her fifties testing products and talking about it, it normalizes it to me, you know.

Well, it's not just the testing, it's that they know I can afford both. So what the hell am I using the drug store thing that I really am using? If I can buy the others, if it doesn't matter to me, I can buy rimes and I could buy a coach bag.

It doesn't matter. But I know.

And I'm wearing an Express jumpsuit right now, and it's beautiful.

It looks if it was a thousand dollars, I would believe it. It's just what it is.

And I've just always been a consumer and I've been curious. But I was sucked in. And that's how powerful it is. That's what I'm trying to say. How are your daughters or my daughter, how does she stand at you ants? If I was sucked in, I'm the most savvy person you could imagine. And I was like, Oh, I want that, I want that, I want that, I want that, and.

It was all it was mostly no, it was all bullshit.

But you rarely see that. I'm telling you don't.

Yes, sad you don't say about.

Especially women who are who are in their fifties like this. It bridged the gap, and I think it's the beauty industry doesn't bridge that gap. Now, have you gotten pushback from any of those brands?

I know that brands are afraid. Some brands are afraid, and some brands they don't care whether I talk bad or good. They're like watching it like a case stuff. They're watching me like Tom Hanks playing with the toys in Big saying what is she like?

What she's not like?

And let's listen to her because she's agnostic, you know. So they are paying attention and they you know, I've had stores, I've had major retailers call and say, how do we make this better?

What do we do? What can we do?

You know?

So it's been fascinating for ice maker companies, like it's been amazing. It's so mean because I'm such a consumer and I'm fascinated by products and marketing and packaging and formulas and not just in makeup and everything.

I want to shift to your personal life because you've been so open about your relationships, specifically your divorce, and I'm curious about that because I've also been divorced and walked away from a relationship. When did you know it was time to leave?

Don't I don't know that I was ever really in my relationship. If I really think about it, you sort of steps happen. You're moving forward, you're doing things, you're making decisions, and like the game was moving too fast. The game was moving too fast sometimes, you know it was where I was in my I felt the waves starting to crust in my career. And you listen to other people who are saying like that, you know, you need to be with someone who can deal with your

What part of that personal part of your life was the the most challenging to sort of see or hear being talked about in public.

No, what was challenging that by any stretch of the imagination, it seemed like it would be somehow my fault because I'm the moneyed spouse, and it would have been a great quote unquote narrative, the most annoying, unpopular word right now that it's like, you know, oh, because I'm a big mogul ceo, like you know, the single dad is to raise.

It like it was I was.

I'm like the best mother and I always have been, and there's nobody who's ever questioned that.

And I'm I so to live to use the Demi Moor thing.

I knew her publicist, and I guess that we're going through a nasty divorce and like you had to keep quiet, just not say anything, and everybody would think everything was one way and like one day the truth will come to light. But it was taking a decade for the truth to come to light because the divorce wouldn't end. And I experienced every single horrendous thing any person could ever experience. I know I'm hearing about people being abused, and I'm here, like I know all the bad things

I am so sorry that you had to go through that.

I really, I so wish that wasn't true in so many ways, and every cell in my body and I and I don't know where you got the strength to keep going.

But it destroyed me. I mean, honestly speaking, it destroyed me.

But but I I was capable during it to be aware and to be able to help other people.

That was yet.

Oh but god, that was extruci The whole thing was I can't even I'm like the memories of flooding in but to help to really not just bullshit, like I can help other people, like really be able to just like in a granular sense, help other people, like explain to them, detail by detail what to do and what not to do.

So when everyone's asking, are you wedding planning?

Like Paul is the most amazing person in the world, and I graduation, Yeah.

But like am I wedding planning? No? I'm not.

Don't you love that do you have a date?

Yeah, I'm not. We do not. Yeah, I'm not wedding planning. I've had a lot of public wedding planning and it didn't go that great.

Well. I think this is all so important for your young girl to see what a strong human being and a good human being her mother is and how hard you work at everything that you do.

Thank you?

Or is there anything that you're looking forward to doing in the years to come?

You've got a daughter growing up in business ventures? What's next for Bethany?

I just like to feel a sense of peace. You know. I don't have big goals. I never have, which is hilarious, but I really don't like I just like to feel peace and feel rest and feel healthy. I'm enjoying the businesses I'm doing now because I'm I'm not like strangling them, like I'm going back into the spirits business with the Forever Young wine. But it's not like it's not like I need and need it to happen. I mean it's happening. It's a stunning wine and the most perfect brand ever.

Like it reflects where I am.

Well. Also, I think if you do, if you approach things without such a tight grip of what it has to be, there is a stronger flow. If you look back at your life, what would you say Your through line.

Is strength and honesty.

And honesty takes strength.

Yeah, and you have both of it, and you're a wonderful mother.

Yeah.

And I'm going to drink your wine and I'll buy whatever.

Watch my YouTube series. I actually want you to watch my YouTube series and laugh. Tell your daughters too minutes. It's like the show. It's the stupid show that you're not getting on the short, short content. And then I'm not doing on TV because I don't want to answer to suits.

That was the incredible Bethany Frankel. For more from her, go listen to her podcast. Just be on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your shows. Now What with Burke Shields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahid Fraser.