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Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Lee Campbell, and every week I talk to an expert who helps us work out how to get more out of the clothes we already own and tells us exactly what is and what isn't worth adding to our wardrobes. How often have you seen an outfit in the window of a store, loved it, but then you've thought, ah, I can't wear that.
It turns out a lot of women decide that they have quote unquote aged out of a store or a style and assume they can't wear certain trends because of how old they are. This episode is going to go against that belief because it's all in our heads. You haven't aged out of an item, You just need to style it for your personal style. Now joining me today is stylist Sally McKinnon. She believes in ageless dressing and between the two of us, we have the perfect formula
that lets you feel stylish at any age. Sally, Welcome to the show. I requested your presence on this podcast, so I'm so excited to have you.
Very pleased to be Herely, let's get started.
With the questions I ask everyone, can you describe your style in three words?
Do you know? This is such a hard question for me to answer. I have given this a lot of thought over quite some time, not just in preparation for today's podcast, because I really am a bit of a style chameleon. My style can literally change day to day, week to week. However, I would say my style is modern, curated and it's elevated.
Loving following. You could not agree more. And I think chameleon could be a word in of itself, you know, it's it shows that you're a bit eclectic.
And a few people have used the word eclectic to describe my style, and I never would have used that word because I always associate it with someone a little bit crazy.
Yeah me too, or like thrown together but not in a good way. Yes, yeah no, But chameleon is an excellent one, and I love those words. Now. The fashion theory is, we have a wardrobe full of clothes. Ninety percent of the stuff we've worn a bit, sure, you know, on occasion, but there's a ten percent that we just wear over and over again, our trusty favorites. What's in your ten percent?
My ten percent, without a doubt, would have to be Blazers, jeans, and the last one probably if I was saying right now, I'm loving a ballet flat, like a modern ballet flat, but maybe a couple of months ago, they would be very on par with a pointed kitten heel. So I love a kitten heel. So those three pieces, the Blazers, the interesting genes, the kitten heels are kind of my signature style, and definitely that ten percent of the wardrobe that I wear.
Today, we're doing things a little bit differently. We got a dressing room dilemma from a listener. I am trying on a bunch of outfits and I just don't know if they are right for my age or if I'm trying to be young again. I am in my late forties and feel like I'm having an identity crisis. How do I know what's right for me, so Sally, as a starist, I'm sure this comes up a lot when you're working with clients, or I wonder if it does. What do you think of that question? And the age
part particularly I find really interesting. So is this a common thread you see with clients?
This is so commonly, It's very common amongst women of a certain kind of age demographic. And we find that as women kind of go throughout life and go from decade to decade, so even from their twenties to thirties, thirties to forties, forties to fifties, they do have this identity crisis. It's particularly common for new mums. So perhaps this particular listener is someone who might have a young family and all of a sudden her lifestyle has changed considerably.
What she used to wear doesn't apply to her current lifestyle. But also I think the older we get, the more we start to question, which was kind of her concern, well how do I dress and how am I supposed to look? And so I think that's where the dilemma comes in. And it's a reasonable dilemma because we are constantly bombarded as women with so much in terms of fashion and trends. Add in social media, it is highly highly confusion. So this is a really, really common dilemma.
So I would say to this listener, you're not the only one. It's really common, and try not to stress too much about it.
I think maybe she's overthinking it, but I agree it's a common thing. Because I was actually shopping with a girlfriend on Sunday and I saw something in the window of a store and she goes, we can't go in there, we're too old, and I thought, oh, that's interesting. I myself have felt that through periods, particularly postpartum. This lovely lady is saying, I'm trying on a bunch of outfits and I don't know if they are right for my age. So do you think it's that everyone on social media
and this is a generalization is twenty one? Do you think it's marketing?
To be honestly, I think it's all of those things. And I think one of the problems with the fashion world, and this is worldwide, is that there's a real disconnect between who the actual consumer is and the images that as a consumer we see on their websites, on their social media pages. So I don't know where this particular woman was shopping but I can guarantee she was drawn
towards something that she really loved the look of. She probably put it on her body and looked in the mirror and then started to question is this appropriate for my age? And I guess if I was there with her in the chained room, I would then ask her, well, how do you plan to wear it? You know, because it's not just about a single item, it's about the head to toe styling. And I think that is what differentiates someone maybe in their twenties to someone in their
forties or fifties or sixties. That you might have exactly the same item, but you will wear it differently to suit you, not necessarily suit your age, but to suit your personal style.
That's why I prefer Pinterest, because I take screenshots and then I cut the person's head off in my camera roll because I don't want to know anything about them. I just want to be inspired by the outfit.
Yeah, and quite assion brands are doing that now on their e comm you just kind of see a mouth down, so they're trying to disassociate the model.
Yeah, clothing Sally, Let's say we're going to help this lovely lady. We want her to find her ageless fashion style. Do you think ageless fashion is.
It's such an interesting and obviously a very hot topic, and I'm a big advocate for ageless style, and I guess essentially what I think that means is ageless style is really wearing whatever you want and wearing whatever makes you feel good, regardless of your age. So thinking beyond all those stereotypes, all those silly sayings like mutton dressed up as lamb, and wearing whatever makes you feel the best version of yourself, whatever that might be, whatever your
personal style is. And I think at the end of the day, as we get older, we definitely do learn to trust our instincts a lot more when it comes to personal style, and we tend to get better at shutting out the noise. But I still think for a lot of women it is very, very hard, because of all those factors we've already talked about to trust their instincts and were what they genuinely feel best in.
That's it. I could not agree more. I mean, I'm now forty two and I only started wearing miniskirts and shorter things in my forties because my legs aren't my best part of my body. Do I hate them. No, do I think about them?
No?
But I told myself, oh, I can't show my legs. And then I got into my forties, I was like, who cares, No, one's looking at my legs. I like the dress. I feel great. And so that came with age. But it's funny because oftentimes, as we're saying it might be the other other way around. You might have had confidence before and then you think, ooh, am I too old Now I'm a mum. Whatever that may be. So we go through phases, don't we.
Yeah. And I think also maybe Lee, you know, I think about the way that you're wearing that mini skirt in your forties. Yes, it's probably very different to how you would have worn that miniskirt in your twenty Totally.
This is a kitten heel or a sandal. I mean, I would not go near high stiletto.
Yep. You're probably not wearing it with a little crop top.
No, And that's it. And it's just because I like comfort because I'm tired. Ye. So do you think are any similarities between what the sixteen year olds are wearing today versus the trends of say you and I?
I think the thing is that right now, in twenty twenty four, we've never had so much at our disposal in terms of choice and availability, whether it be online, and we also, I feel like there's never been less almost differentiation between what the eighteen year olds and the fifty eight year olds are wearing. Yes, I agree, so gone all the days when you know, teenagers dressed a
certain way and their mother's dressed another way. There's definitely a lot more crossover between what's in a store in say somewhere that cater's for a teenage girl and somewhere that cater's towards a fifty plus year old woman. Whether it's a sneakers, you know, everyone's wearing sneakers. The youngsters will be wearing that same sneaker with their visible socks, whereas a different generation. So it's just those little tweaks. But honestly, there is very little difference between how the
generations are dressing. But each generation or each individual will wear something in their own unique way.
Yeah, I agree. My mum's Nelly eighty, and every time I pop out to her place, I go, oh, whoops, I took those seed jeans home just to borrow.
You know, absolutely she's.
Nailing ageless dressing. And when I take her shop and she goes, oh, I'm not going into that store. That's an old lady's store, and I think I want to be exactly like that.
Yeah, And it's interesting that same kind of sentiment we see that all the time with our clients is that we will take older clients into younger stores. You know what's perceived younger stores, and vice versa, our younger clients into somewhere that they perceive as being, oh, that's an older lady store. Because it's about the item that you're going to choose for them and then how they're going to style it. So those preconceived notions about brands are even kind of disappearing. I think.
I'm totally ageless and I love fashion, but I have felt, let's say a little bit mature seeing all the two thousands trends coming back, even some of the nineties trends, because you know, I was there the first time. Is it that fashion and trends are cyclical and it's just that it kind of goes on to the next generation.
Absolutely, they do. Yeah, you look at all the big baggie jeans and the sneakers and the little crop top. I'm ten years older than you, Lee, so that just reminds me of my favorite girl band at the time, TLC. Yes, but again, you know, you can look at like I'm loving a baggie kind of slightly or won't say low rise, but just slightly lower on my hips. Yeah, wide leg
to the floor. But I will then elevate it using one of my words, and rather than wear it with a sneaker, I'll wear it with a ballet flat or a pointed pump and a blazer. So I'm still taking whatever that trend is or you know, the cycle that's come back through, but I'm styling it very differently to the young women in their twenties.
Yeah. Same, and they're probably thinking, oh, this trend's so cool and new, and we're like, oh, we did that the first time. I know. So do you think can women in their forties and fifties confidently wear the same outfits as their daughters. I know Mia swaps clothes with her daughter all the time. What do you think about this. I don't wear my whole mum's outfit, but I wear a lot of my mum's clothes and hers she wears a lot of mine.
That kind of comes back to what we talked about, how really the difference between how the generations currently dress isn't really perhaps as different as it used to be, And that probably also has something to do with the fact that we are actually here talking about ageless style. You no, I'm sure you've probably seen memes or you know, videos about the Golden Girls back in the day, you know, who were actually only supposed to be in their mid forties.
I know, the way a fifty year old woman, I mean, I'm fifty two think i'm younger all the time, and you know, a fifty two your old woman today or a sixty two or a seventy two year old woman. It's not the same as how we kind of pictured that same age group all those years ago. So there's definitely lots of crossover. And yes, I know Mia often swaps clothes or wears her daughter's clothes or vice versa, but again, I'm sure she just wears them a little bit differently.
So, Sally, let's say you're helping this client in real life. What advice are you giving her or what steps are you taking or where are you going? What are you doing to help her feel less daunted or worried about dressing quote unquote age appropriately.
So first of all, it's really important to find out what the actual day to day needs are of the client. So what does their lifestyle look like. Are they working? Are they working from home? Are they in an office? Are they in a corporate environment or a more casual environment. Are they stay at home mum looking after kids? What does their social life look like? And then you start to think about, well, what clothes are actually going to serve your life purpose, what clothing is going to be
functional for you every day? And I think what's happened post pandemic? Is it because the workplace has become a lot more casual. That's a really great thing for a
lot of people's budgets. So we're finding now rather than shopping with clients to get a separate work wardrobe and a separate weekend wardrobe, there's a lot more overlap emerging educating the client and showing them through their clothing, how they can put together a look that suits their everyday needs, how they can dress something up, dress something down, how they can elevate it, and how they can wear their clothes in a way that makes them feel fantastic for
whatever their day to day purpose, whether that is. And you'd be amazed how many women say this. They just want to look good when they pick the kids up from school. They don't want to be in their leggings, but they want to just look like they've made an effort. Sometimes it's just a as that.
Yeah, it is. So many of us are busy. We don't go on the Oscars red carpet. We're running around doing chores and working kids. But we just want that little bit of elevation comfort. But then like, oh that's quite cool. Like it's hard to find, but it looks very effortless.
Yeah, when you do learn to listen to your gut and trust your instinct, whether you're shopping or putting together an outfit from your wardrobe, you know, look in the mirror, take a photo, and if it feels right, regardless of what anyone else says, it's probably right.
I wanted to ask you about fabrics. So this is something that I've probably changed the most since i've aged, If you don't mind me asking about fabrics, because I feel like I've always had a similar style, but I was just not maybe I wasn't as busy, there wasn't as much wear and tear. So do you think as we age, little tweaks into the types of fabrics that we look for, how we care for our garments can change, If that makes sense.
That's really interesting because I used.
To think, oh, white T shirt's a white T shirt whatever, But now I'm like, Oh, it's one hundred percent cotton, it's breathable, I know how to launder it.
Yeah. Well, definitely, natural fibers are going to feel more comfortable. They're more breathable. So I guess if we are talking about women of a certain age and going through a certain time in life and maybe having hot flushes and you know, regulating different body temperatures than obviously natural fibers are going to be better. So, whether that's cotton, linens
and silks and things like that. But I'm also a big believer, just anyway, Lee, that when you're buying clothes, the way a fabric looks and falls and drapes on your body is actually really key. And you can buy something very inexpensive, and I know that's going to be something we'll talk about in a minute, But when it's a good cotton or a good linen or a blend of the two, or a bit of a synthetic. I can tell you now, if that item of clothing looks great on your body, then it will look a lot
more expensive than it actually is. And I've also got another little very with clients who do need to shop on a budget. So I think we always think, oh, the more we spend on clothes, the more we need to be careful and look after them and dry clean than bloody blah. But I also say, hey, if you're buying budget, look after them just as well, because that will prolong their wear and it will make them look
really good for a much longer period of time. So don't be afraid if it's applicable to get a synthetic blouse, dry clean.
Yes, or hand wash, you affordable tea or nit or whatever it is. Just because it was affordable doesn't mean we want to trash it any faster. I love that. Before we get into bougie and budget, what's your overall message or advice for women who are worried about wearing certain things at their age. I know you've said just go with your gut, but something a bit more practical in that should they take a friend with them, should they not take a friend with them?
Look, it's very hard shopping with friends because friend can sometimes be almost a little bit too honest in many ways, but also they're being a lot more subjective with their advice. Yeah, the best way is to shop by yourself and take photos in the change room. Even do what you said before Lee, actually cover your face with the phone or top your head off so that you're really objectively looking
at the item. But even from there, rather than just putting on a top or a jacket, style it from head to toe in the store and see how it comes together as a collective outfit. Your judgment of how something looks will be a lot more accurate.
I really like putting together the whole outfit in the chain. Yeah, or perhaps checking the returns policy and taking it home and seeing the combos in your wardrobe.
Absolutely, always take things home if the returns policy allows for you to go home, try it on in your own home. I do that all the time online shopping. I only buy online from stores that are free returns. Yes, because you do want to be able to bring it home. Quight on with your wardrobe, mix the match, take lots of photos, yeah, and have some time to process it.
And I think that's the problem. When we shot with friends, there's a little bit of healthy kind of competition, but there's also can be some unhealthy influence.
Yes, I agree, it's very expensive.
How mud are these percent?
Okay, we're going to move on to bougie and budget, so we're talking about ageless outfits, ageless fashion. So I found this quite hard in that I actually found a few versions. So what I've done, I've gone into an online store that's for quote unquote young people and found a boogie in a budget that I would very happily recommend for my age group and my mum would probably wear. So that's how I went about it. Tell me Sally about your budget and what you've chosen and why.
So I'm a big were of any matching set. So I love a good coor be it a suit, you know, a jacket and trouser, jacket and skirt, or a good coored you know, kind of softer blouse and pants. So I went into Camilla and Mark last week to check out their brand new drop and my eye went straight to this kind of torpie color, buttoned down collared shirt and elasticize, wasted full fluid.
Pants, heaven elastic on the waist.
My last fabric beautiful with a nice kind of quite textured little front pleat. And I tried it on and it's very fluid. It's a little bit Pajamary in styling, just to describe it. But I put it on and I put my hands in my pockets and my shoulders just relaxed, and I just knew this is you.
Felt good.
Yeah, I felt good. It came home with me. And I don't really shop like that very much. I don't really do that kind of shop now, And so I appreciate that Camilla and Mark is not budget. When I compare it to my bougie.
I love this.
You're very budget.
We'll get there in a moment. But also Camilla and Mark's quality and the fact that they're kind of classic coords. You can work them in with new trans new seasons forever. I approve, and don't worry. My budget's very budget. So I'm covering you there. So I pretended I went to Dottie online because I thought, oh, I can't shop in Dottie. I didn't think that, but I think a lot of women would Dottie have the Sarah Soft Cargo pant. It's a cord available, but I like the pants elasticated waist.
The color I like is called warm Talk. They look like a brushed silk. They're not silk for the price, but they're just super stretchy, cumfy, wideish at the ankle, so you could do a sneaker, you can do a sandorm yep. And they are sixty nine ninety budget. I'd be a little bit sweaty. That would be a really good aeroplane outfit. Yeah. I wouldn't wear that fabric, probably in the height of summer because I get a bit shitzy.
But they're really nice. So the Sarah Soft Cargo pants from Dotty, which I haven't looked at.
In years, I will have to check them out.
You will now give me your boogie because I think it's by one of my favorite designers of all time. Yeah.
So I should also say the set that I'm talking about from Camilla and Mark is called the Nevas Shirt and the Nevas pant.
Her face.
I'm going to tell you the price.
Yeah, go on.
So they were three fifty each.
Oh that's not too bad.
I thought the same thing. I know, but I thought the same thing.
But after having purchased a blazer at the start of winter, which obviously blazers a little bit more boogie, but three fifty each is good for the quality and reputation of Camilla and Mark agreed.
So that's a seven hundred dollars investment, okay. And the bougie is from my favorite designer, also New York brand Tibby. Yes, tib I love, and they have almost the identical set. It's called the Thomas Men's Wear shirt and pant.
Don't tell me this.
The shirt in Australian dollars is eight hundred and fifty dollars okay, and the pants are a thousand dollars okay.
So that's why we went for Camilla and Mark. Yeah.
Yeah, And it is essentially the same vibe, it's the same aesthetic, it's the same functionality, but less way less than half price, and that's before you add shipping from the US.
Totally go there, No, we won't. Tivy is such a I was gonna say fun. Probably not fun, but you know, modern twist on classic shapes and a bit you know, architectural and structural and their account and they're design to give so many amazing styling tips. Yeah, and then you can get a lot of TIVV on secondhand sites. There's even a Facebook group. I mean, I'm in the group with the spreadsheet. Yes, we'll have to link all of this in twins. Now, my Bougie is still pretty affordable,
but more expensive than my budget. I went in virtually to Bado, another store I have not shopped in in my real life for many, many years. I was really impressed. I don't even know if there's Bardo's stores anymore. There's definitely online, but I haven't seen a store, gosh for years. So I've got two I'm cheating. The Anna high waist pant in ten. It's a very high waisted, almost like suiting.
It's called the tailoring pants. They have got invisible little zip pockets, high waisted, beautiful, falls delightfully one hundred and forty nine dollars. And then the other thing I just had to mention, I know I'm cheating is expensive for Bardo. Two hundred and thirty nine dollars and ninety nine cents, so two hundred and forty bucks for a denim skirt.
Wow.
Yeah, it's called the Zeta denim midi skirt in dark It almost gives me sort of age vibes or did you know that very high waisted, sort of pleated almost coarsetting around the waist and then sort of out to a soft pleat in an It's beautiful. So two hundred and forty dollars is a lot for Bardo, but you would see this skirt and you would think it was very, very extensive and very high end. And the way you could start it. You could do a came in a heel, you could do a tea in a tank or a sandal.
I am considering it, but I do want to go and try it on in real life, and I just the waist is so feminine and flattering, and it's that really beautiful dark indigo denim that you can really sort of dress up.
Sounds amazing. And can I just say on that note being denim, this is one thing that I often advise people that denim is denim.
Agreed, you don't have to spend a million dollars, no, yeah, I agree.
We find something that's a little bit unique like the Bard, Yeah, go for it.
I love it. Oh, Sally, I'm so glad to have finally chatted with you. I followed you for so long. I love all your advice, so we'll pop a link to your Instagram in the show notes so everyone else can enjoy your wonderful wisdom.
Thank you so much, Leigh, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you.
Thank you, Thank you for listening. Nothing to Wear now listen, don't forget to sign up to our newsletter. It's wonderful, it's fabulous. It's called Nothing to Wear and it's free. There's a link in the show notes if you don't already get it in your inbox. And if you loved this episode and need a reminder of how to find personal style, we have an episode on that too. We've popped a link in the show notes so you can
have a listen. See you next week. This episode was produced by Grace Roofray with audio production by Lou Hill. This podcast is powered by our subscribers. If you believe in independent women's media and you want to support us, a subscription tomma Mia costs less than the price of a coffee each month. There's a link in the show notes if you'd like to subscribe. And a big thank you to all our current subscribers,