¶ Resilience
Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience . I'm your host , Manya Chylinski, and my guest today is Steve Gavitorte . He's a coach , a trainer , he's worked with Fortune 500 companies and he's the author of the book In Defense of Adversity .
We talked about how it's possible to learn from every situation and we know that adversity is part of life but how we have to go through it to become the people that we should become , and how to invest in resiliency skills and coping skills in a world filled with volatility , uncertainty , change and ambiguity , so that we don't just survive but we thrive .
I really enjoyed my conversation with Steve and I think you're going to , too , subscribe to Notes on Resilience on Apple Podcasts and , if you like the show , we'd love for you to leave a review . Thanks , hi , steve . I'm so excited to be talking to you today .
Happy to be here as well . Too Great topic and I'm excited to share some insights .
All right Now , before we get into those insights , though , I want to ask you if you could have any superpower . What would that be ?
No , and more businesses coming down a pipe . No , neacom , he's going to get better . Ooh , that's a good one . Help me be more resilient . It is a consultant . It's interesting I spent 22 years in corporate America . I was used to that steady revenue stream and as a consultant things you have to get used to ebbs and flows and stuff like that .
And ever since COVID talking about building resilience , the whole COVID dynamic in thereafter has been a big resilience test and builder for me too .
Yes , well , you could probably get paid a lot if you had that superpower .
Tell me about it .
You'd never have to worry about the ebbs and flows of the economy .
See , that's what I'm saying . There's more method to my madness than it first sounded when I first stated that . So absolutely .
All right , Well , tell us . You mentioned that you're a consultant , but tell us who you are and what do you do .
Yeah , steve Gavatorta , I'm a consultant and I pride myself . My consulting consists of regular consulting , guiding clients on how to meet their objectives , overcome their obstacles , meet their business goals .
And I can do that in several ways through base consulting , through workshops , through coaching , through speaking engagements , things of that nature , through various assessment , behavioral assessment , deliveries , and what I really do is try to sit down , uncover my customers' specific needs and build relevant solutions to meet those needs .
All my clients are different and for me to be able to help them best is to really dig in scratch and uncover what's keeping them up at night , what are their opportunities , what are their objectives and goals , and then , in turn , help them meet those respective goals .
Right , and you and I are here to talk about resilience . So how is it that in your work or in your personal life , how is it that you are in a place to be thinking about what is resilience ?
I think you had known that about five years ago I published a book , a shameless plug , a book called Indefensive Adversity Turning your Toughest Challenges Into your Greatest Success .
And five years ago , as you remember , covid was about three years ago and about five years ago , the topic of the ability to face , overcome and learn from our obstacles and build resilience , I think , was one of the biggest areas that I thought was most important for leaders and organizations to become better at .
Even before this whole COVID dynamic , I used to say in my tagline of my capabilities video I say we're in a fast-paced , high-tech , ever-evolving world . Change is hitting us faster than ever . Adversity is striking us deeper . The speed at which we need to make decisions is getting tighter and tighter .
This is the new way of the world and you need to become better prepared to function . These uncertain times or precarious times , ambiguous times One of my largest clients they use the acronym VUCA Volatility , uncertainty , change and Ambiguity that's the new way of the world .
So our need to build our resilience muscle is more important than ever and I really uncovered that .
That came about with the researching in my book In Defense of Adversity and the timing of everything that's happening to us , even before and after the COVID dynamic , which added a lot of weight to this whole topic about building resilience , overcoming adversity , becoming stronger .
Right . So you were already on that topic and kind of ahead of the game when COVID hit to realize how that was going to be impacting people .
Yeah , I think resilience I don't care whether you're a leader , you're a salesperson , you're a personal , professional life . Your need to build resilience is key , because life isn't fair .
Adversity is a part of life and our ability to build resilience , to build that resolve during these difficult times is one not only most important to help us get through that time , but to help us build resilient muscles for when this happens down the road . Right . Resilience gives us a chance to become stronger .
The more we can build our resilience , the better we're going to handle bigger challenges as they face us in the future .
Right , absolutely . Now , resilience is one of those words that a lot of us just kind of adopted to mean what we want it to mean . So what do you think is resilience ? What does that mean to you ?
Yeah , ability to . Again , what I say is transform and evolve . It gives us a chance to grow from certain adverse situations , to transform into something better that we were meant to become , and evolve into the person we were meant to be . So I Think our resilience muscle is not just about helping us to get through something .
It's to help us become the people that I don't know if you want to say God , our creator , mother nature , wanted us to become . And again adversities a part of life . It's meant to be there and when we can face it , grow , learn from it . We become stronger , we become better , and I think it's purposely placed in our lives .
It's not just something I need to build my resilience strength to get better and become stronger . It's meant for us to happen in our lives , to grow . Look at anything in nature , whether it's a piece of coal that becomes ultimately a diamond .
From what years of resilience , pressure , cracking , you know , whatever that is , this ugly piece of coal becomes this beautiful diamond , and I think that's mother nature's metaphor for us as human beings that you know we come into this world you know , not literally a piece of coal , but metaphorically a piece of coal , and we're meant to be diamonds .
Resilience is something to broaden our life , to hone us in , to make us become the people we were ultimately ready to become . So my viewpoint is in just hey , this is a chance to grow , this is a chance to overcome it . That's part of it , that's a huge part of it . I think it's something greater .
It's placed in our lives for something greater the adversity and the need to build that resilience muscle , so to speak .
You know , it's so interesting that you talk about adversity that it is something that comes into all of our lives and , depending on on our own experiences and how much adversity you faced , sometimes it can feel Really surprising like how could life have turned so upside down ?
I think we definitely can get lulled into a false sense of security and think that bad things don't necessarily happen to all of us .
Yeah , yeah , it's funny . I don't seek adversity , I don't want to seek obstacles , but I will say the times were something difficult , adverse situation and has happened in my life . One of them you can read about in the book . It's when my family's house collapsed in a coal mine . That's something when you lose your whole house Unexpectedly .
You know it's one of those . Why us ? Why this happened to us ? But this whole event , what made me ? And it's a long story if we can get into it , but that event was meant to happen in my life because it made me Become someone I never thought I could become and it set the stage for greater things in my life .
That situation helped make my family closer . That situation gave me great story to publish a book right . So at the time , a lot of these things are why me , why this happened , and and there's levels of Adversity people have to face and the resilience I mean , there's disease . That's something you know why me ? But I try to think why me ?
And how can I get through ? What's this trying to tell me ? What strength can I gain from this in overcoming what I'm facing right and become stronger , to learn , to Evolve in that person I was meant to become ?
right , right , everyone's . I've heard people ask a question why do bad things happen to good people ? And I Sometimes get so frustrated with that question because I think bad things happen to all people . Yeah and so I'm curious what you think about that question when people ask it .
Yeah , I , I stick to what you're saying . Bad things happen to everybody . I think people tend to notice it more when it is a very good person , so to speak . Mm-hmm , I think it's again what I'm more interested in . What did that person do with that ? Yes , one of the people I interviewed for in for my book you may have heard them , I'm not sure .
His name is Chad Hi miss . He's one of the most popular speaker on the public speaking market . Now Chad Hi miss is a paraplegic and he was a wonderful man , wonderful family man , a religious man , a business , successful business person who owned an elk farm , but very beloved in the community .
And through an accident Were a massive veil of hay fell on him and he became that paraplegic . What a horrible thing to happen to a good person that Chad hi miss . Let that situation be an opportunity for him to share to the world what you can do with your life after a tragic accident like that , or the importance of safety in the workplace .
That's one of the things he speaks on the most about is safety in the workplace and the perils of not being safe in a workplace . Right , so I think bad things happen to everybody . I'm more interested , though , from the perspective , what can you do with that ? What does anyone do with that ? And again , there's a perfectly
¶ Resilience and the Role of Organizations
good situation . This is a wonderful man . Why does happen to him ? He had a beautiful , white , beautiful kids . That . What he did with that was even more amazing . And now he's . I think he's a paraplegic . I think he is on the road 200 days a year . Wow , he is a video of this . It takes him two hours to get dressed and undressed every morning .
He does it himself . Yeah , certain things he doesn't do on the road , sure , but he chooses to dress himself to not lose . He wants to keep as much of that Perfect body alive that he did have right and use that for the better now and be an inspiration to people as well too .
Yeah . So let me ask you a question . So you've just shared a very inspirational story of someone who faced adversity and has made some meaning from that and is making some change from that . My story is different , but a similar kind of trajectory , and then I'm I'm trying to make some change based on what I learned .
For people who are listening who think , oh , this horrible thing happened to me and I didn't become a motivational speaker and I didn't do this great big thing that changed the world , I Guess I wanted to say how do we help people understand that this change that you're talking about in this response , that you're talking about , doesn't have to be as big as the
world stage ?
Oh , exactly , listen , my situation . The house falling just helped me . You know I'm successful what I do , but my business didn't happen to me until 30 years after the house collapsing . Okay , but it put me on a trajectory to greatly mature myself as a young man .
I was a little wild man in college , in high school , you know , I was an athlete , I didn't study a lot , I was struggling . But this thing that happened with my family , not only did our house collapse and we lost everything , not Physically , but the house was built on a coal mining room and , yeah , and it collapsed overnight .
We didn't know it was a bill over coal mining room . It was called mine subsidence . Mine subsidence is not covered through normal homeowners Of snubbed yeah . So we lost that . We lost the house . We had two more house payments to pay on that .
About a month later I go to work and the junior going to my senior in college , I go to work for my father at his produce market . He owned a produce market . Not a week after I'm working with him at the produce market , we're dealing with the house . We're living in a one bedroom apartment .
The brief percussions of the house living in one bedroom apartment , my dad's loan collapses . It was the summer of collapse , I say Gosh . And he was laid up in a hospital . So with that said , guess who the burden of running our family business was over that summer and providing income . It was me , a 19 year old kid , yeah .
So that summer my family and especially me , had to deal with a lot and overcome a great obstacle . I did say a few times why does happen to us with a house ? Why my dad's loan collapse , why is my throne of this ? But at the same time I had a huge sense of calm and the realization that I could do this , yeah , and doing it succeeding .
That summer put me on a trajectory to have a successful business career , a corporate career . So it wasn't like overnight I became a rock star public speaker . It gave me confidence , okay , it gave me a sense of pride that I was able to provide for my family during this different while my dad was struggling health wise , I would try to deal with the house .
So it doesn't have to be a major thing . It could be minor steps , but there's something behind that . If you can overcome that obstacle , that's greater the experience . I don't know how people will share that to the world or how they have whatever good comes of it manifest in them .
I think it depends on the person , but there should always be some semblance of good or learnings that could come from any situation . In a lot of my workshops I'm gonna paraphrase now I talked about a quote from Abraham Lincoln that one of his biggest antagonizers stated about him after his death .
It was something the extent of Abraham Lincoln was a common man came from very humble beginnings to ultimately become one of the greatest leaders the country ever had . And it was because of the obstacles he faced . It was because anything thrown in his way he used those adverse situations as stepping stones to learn , grow and transform and become a better person .
And if you know anything about the history of Abraham Lincoln , he had some horrible tragedies , I think divorces , business failings I think a child died at a very young age political failures . So I think as long as we're taking something away and growing from that , I think that's the most important thing in a war . That's a long-winded response .
I hope that answered the question .
That's a good answer to the question and I wanna shift gears a little bit , because we have been talking about personal resiliency my own ability to overcome a difficult situation , to deal with obstacles , our listeners ability to deal with horrible things that have happened in their lives but I spend a lot of time thinking about the role of institutions and
organizations and the system in being supportive . So how do you see the role of our systems and institutions in supporting people who are going through difficult life experiences , maybe a trauma , and are needing to have resiliency ?
Yeah , that's what I talk about when I say this whole thing about the VUCA world volatility , uncertainty , change , ambiguity . We're in a fast-paced , high-tech , every evolving world . That's the kickoff to what I talk about my capabilities of how I help my customers or the importance of , maybe , a workshop we're having today .
It sets the stage that says we're in these crazy times . This ability to maneuver , work through crazy times , support our people , have rational thinking . Functional teams during these crazy times are literally a point of differentiation , a competitive advantage for companies and institutions .
Because of those companies , institutions that can keep their leaders are thinking rationally through adversity . If their people are calm , cool and collected during adversity , they're going to succeed .
Because when you are not thinking rationally , especially when all this chaos , adversity , ambiguity is going on , you can't solve problems , you can't resolve conflict , you can't think creatively , you may say and do the wrong things . So what I talk about is the importance .
Through several techniques and training skills I provide , I teach people how to keep that rational state of mind as leaders in an organization and to be supportive of their people whether they're going through business-related stress or adversity or whether they're going through these things in their personal lives , and to be a support mechanism for those teams as they're
going through this , because not only the leaders have to be on their game for my rational thinking point of frame , but their people do as well too . If I'm a leader and I'm highly emotional , I'm not a rational thinker . I could put my team under that same stress dynamic .
If my people aren't functioning rationally or there might be something in their personal life and I'm not dealing with them in a manner that's supportive , that keeps them in that rational state and keeps them in a good frame of mind , they are not successful . Hence we're not successful .
So I think this need to be rational , to seek solutions , to think creatively , to solve problems , say the right things , resolve conflict in these crazy times of organizations is more important than ever and again it's a point of differentiation and a competitive advantage for companies .
Right . Do you feel like the organizations that you talk with , that you work with , do you feel like they're understanding how important it is to be supportive of , because what we're talking about is supporting the mental health of the individuals in the company ? Do you feel like people are understanding that and they're making those business changes ?
I think they do . I'm not so sure there there may be really good at making those changes . I think there's subtle changes like the understanding and need of people to maybe work virtually and accommodating with regard to their work environment and things of that nature .
I think it's out there , but I'm not seeing a training , like I'm offering , specifically for those type of things , and I think that's more important now than ever .
I think , especially as you look at not only with our volatile world , but if you look at corporate America now or business , you have what four generations , multi-generational dynamics happening in organizations too , which is creating stress as well too , and how these different generations deal with adversity , how they deal with leadership and management , is in many ways
different as well too . Some of the old dogs , boomers , like me . I like a precipitve manager , but it's not as important . I grew up in training so I know it is important , but it's not offered a lot .
I think some of the younger folks of today do want more of a coaching relationship , a collaborative environment , and I think that coaching , that collaborative environment if you can instill that with those younger generation folks , you are going to be more successful .
Right .
That's going to relieve a lot of their stress versus a my way or a highway type manager that it used to be .
Right . So some of the changes we're seeing are kind of the natural progression as generations and people of different ages and expectations move through the system .
Yes , I do , however , think people the older generation , I think oftentimes don't understand the younger generation from the perspective of how they maybe are asking for more help . As an example , I hear a lot of older generations saying you know , why are they asking ? Why do I need to do this ? I've had younger generation people say because I want to know why .
It's not that you're pushing back on me or you're bucking up against me or questioning my authority . They literally want to know why . Yeah , you know , and that's a big thing to uncover and I've heard that multiple times and that's a big , big dynamic that goes on . It can create more stress in a workplace .
So that understanding of different multi-generational dynamics , of why people are behaving the way they are , have a better understanding about that and skills and insights to work through that . So , for the Ulmer , the younger generation isn't being defiant and for the younger generation , the older generation aren't being jerks .
There's different ways they used to do things . You know , the older generation say because I'm the manager , that's how we did things . They're not being difficult . Nor is the younger person being difficult asking why . So Right , Wow .
I mean , there's some of the challenges of running an organization , right ? Whether you're talking about supporting resiliency or you're just talking about being able to work together . There are so many different elements of human dynamics that have to come together to work successfully .
Absolutely , absolutely . We teach selling skills , we teach manager effectiveness , we teach maybe team building or selling skills or things of that nature , coaching skills , but we don't . Well , where's the class on ? Where's the training on resilience ?
Yeah .
You know , where's the training on overcoming obstacles , overcoming adversity ? Or let's take it back a bit further into our educational system reading , writing , arithmetic , those are all fundamental , important things , but I think teaching people resilience skills .
Yeah .
Why not do that ? Why not build these cortex muscles , these resilience muscles , early on in people , so they're prepared to not only face obstacles but learn and grow from them ?
Right , I hear you . I think we're both signing up to teach those courses , so anybody wants to ? Do them . We're there . You mentioned I heard the word policy , which I'm learning . I think policy might be part one of my love languages .
What do you think is the most important policy or action that an organization can take to really be supportive for people who are going through difficult times ?
Yeah , I think , to have training in place to help people again build the adversity muscle , build the resilience muscle . These again sales , leadership , manager effectiveness , coaching skills were considered soft skills . These are other soft skills as well too , and I've linked this up to building your emotional intelligence .
If you can build your emotional intelligence , you're building your ability to meet more resilience .
So , investing in resiliency skills , investing in building emotional intelligence in people , these coping skills during this avuca world , this half-ass pace , crazy times we're in , if you could provide a support mechanism to help people not just survive these times but thrive in them again . That's a point of differentiation .
Let me repeat myself If we are not thinking clearly , if we are not able to solve problems , if we're not be able to think creatively , if we can't resolve conflict , we're not going to be successful . And selling skills are good , but they don't necessarily , I guess they can resolve conflict .
In the perspective that I'm aligning my solution to your needs , it does that , but I think there needs to be more softer skills and I don't mean that in a derogatory , easy thing .
It's just the name of a skill around resilience muscles , becoming stronger through adversity , being better with difficult customers , being more comfortable with change , resolving conflict , things of that nature .
¶ Building Resilience and Emotional Intelligence
And you said one of the key words is change is being comfortable with change . I mean , that's just one piece of avuca , but I know that change can just be even good . Change can be difficult to deal with because I think we all like to settle back to our level state , our status quo , and even good change that can feel like it threatens that .
Absolutely A lot of what I do . You talked about . What can companies support and do I use different behavioral assessments Myers-Briggs or disk , their Carl Jung-based assessments to help people understand . This is where building EQ comes into play .
Understanding themselves first , how they behave , how they communicate , how they're motivated , how they make decisions and how they deal with change , risk and conflict . The more I can understand that about myself , the more I'm going to be able to self-manage myself through these times Right .
Secondly , if I can understand those same attributes in my teammates , I'm going to be able to understand how best to interact with them . So if I have a team of 10 people , not all of them are going to hate change . Not all of them are going to love change . Not all of them are going to be motivated different .
Some of them may be motivated different ways to move forward during changing times . The more we can be self-aware of these attributes in ourselves and those people around us , the more we're going to be able to successfully maneuver through those times Right .
And I appreciate that point about doing some of those self-assessments and then , to a certain degree , sharing some of those findings with others , so as a way to work better together . I remember doing that very thing in a company that I used to work for .
We all did a particular assessment and then we talked about what that meant in terms of how to work together , and it was one of the first times that I was exposed to really understanding that this person that I know and trust as a teammate actually thinks about the world differently than I do .
Exactly , exactly One I use most as disc and when we share the team scores to help them understand what their disc style is , it's a fun aha moment Because people start realizing , oh , so-and-so is not being a jerk , they're just a Taipei personality , or so-and-so is not resisting change because they're difficult , they're a high C style and they like change .
And how do I help these people deal with the change in the different ways ? And it's a good aha moment to help people realize yeah , we are different and each of us are equally strong and good and productive in a team and all of us have different attributes that can maybe hold us back .
The more we can understand that , the more we're going to be able to work through that as well too . And that ties into , again , adversity , change , decision making . The more you can understand about those dynamics in yourself , the better you are going to be maneuvering through that . I am not a great change agent . I need time to think things through .
So I know when I'm getting hit with change I'm going to do certain things to ensure that my mind's right in dealing with this situation , because if it's not , it can throw me into a freeze . My emotional state when I'm not thinking rationally is freeze , I will shut down . I won't be able to think clearly and when I'm like that I'm not productive .
If I know the change that's coming and I know it's uncomfortable for me , I can prepare myself to now . What do I have to do to work through that ? That's resilience , right . I'm working through this . It's not easy for me but I can work through that .
But if I'm in an emotional state of freeze , I can't work through that and I'm not going to build my resilience muscle . Right , right .
Cool , oh , thank you . Thank you , so we're getting close to the end of our time together . What is one question that you wish I had asked you , and how would you answer it ?
I don't know . Now you're building my question resilience muscle . I Think there's something around what I would say how do you build your resilience muscle ? How do you become more rational , a rational thinker than emotional responder ? And how I'd answer ? That is and this is part of the research in my book that that's one things I was .
We were maneuvering around that for a while and I did want you to ask me that now , thinking about that part of my book , I talked about two important parts of our brain and , and through that knowledge , the understanding of how we can face obstacles , deal difficulties better and build our resilience muscle .
One part of the brain is called the limbic system , also known as our emotional brain . That's what we're born with . The limbic system does not Grow , transform and evolve through time . It's the , it stays the same , and when we're functioning in the limbic system , our response to something is going to be emotional freeze-fighter flight .
Yeah , so when we were babies , when we need , we were hungry , we cried . That's the limbic system going into play . The other part of the brain is called the cortex , our Rational brain . Okay , the cortex . The cortex does grow , transform and evolve through time , through our education , through educational system , through training and development .
That's why I think training development so important through our life Experiences , and especially the most adverse ones , okay , provide us the opportunity to grow our emotion or rational brain , our cortex .
So the point is , if we're functioning , if we're facing an obstacle , we need to use our cortex part of our brain rather than our limbic part of the brain , because when we're in freeze-fighter flight , we can't solve the problem , we can't grow , we can't learn .
When we're in the cortex , though we're in a rational thinking in mind , we can access our past successes or failures , we can access our training . We have a reservoir of options .
So I think , knowing how to access our cortex part of the brain and look at every opportunity that we face , especially the adverse ones , as chances , opportunities to grow that cortex , I think that's more important than ever . I talk about a lot of people . You may disagree , a lot of people disagree with me , but I talk about .
You've heard of participation trophies before right .
Yes , I have .
I'm dead set against that .
Okay , why is that ?
because I think the ability to learn a lesson from failure or not winning Does not build our cortex muscle . I need to know what it feels like to not succeed or to have not have won , because that gives me a chance to maybe grow and think what could I have done differently ? Right , could we done better ?
So that's robbing people of growing that cortex muscle for the future on a flipside that coin . What did it take to win ? Why'd I win ? Because I did x , y and z , so through any life experiences , and that's why we go back earlier to learning .
Growing , transforming and evolving from adversity Is big , because that builds our cortex muscle , that builds our resilience muscle . Because we're realizing we're facing an obstacle . Now , what can I learn from it ? How can I overcome it ? And even if I didn't , there's a learning there , right , right , there's a learning there to say what , why didn't I succeed ?
Why didn't I overcome that ? Why didn't I do better ? And if you can rewire your brain to realize what you could have done differently , that will bode well for you down the future , even when that happens again , right .
Oh okay , thank you , I appreciate that question and that answer , steve , excellent good so the last question that I like to ask is what would you tell your 18 year old self about resiliency ?
Oh , don't wait till the house collapses to build it . No , I think it is to be more cognizant that adversity is a part of life . You know , at the beginning of my book and I learned this from Chad Heimus , the gentleman I told you about Chad Heimus yeah , I participated in my book .
I do a piece on Chad Heimus and he gave me some good insights and when I talked about his accident , he said that you know and I use this , my book , and I don't know if I use these exact words , but my words are I wish I'd known to accept that adversity is a part of life and to acknowledge that it's meant for us to happen so we can grow , transform
and evolve into the people we were meant to become . So now I clearly see things from looking back at that whole situation as an 18 year old , 9-year-old kid . When my parents house collapsed , when my dad's lung collapsed . It's perfectly clear now why that was meant to happen to me . Well , how I grew from that .
In the moment when it was happening , I thought my head was gonna explode , I thought I was gonna die and I think if I would have had that mindset Sooner and better , I would have realized hey , this is a chance . The adversity is a chance to grow , transform involved , even back in a day when you lost a football game Last late football .
You know it was a hole wide . We lose wide . You know that's stunk , you know get upset about it , but more of a proactive attitude about things . So right as a young kid , accepting that adversity is a part of life , acknowledging that this is a chance for me to grow . This is a chance for me to be better .
This was meant to happen for me for some reason .
Yeah , that's a great one . Thank you for sharing that . So , as we just get ready to wrap up , how can our listeners reach you ?
Yeah well , number one , my book is on Amazon again , in defensive adversity pairing in your toughest challenges in your greatest success . Go to my website , wwwgavatortacom , my email , my phone numbers on there and feel free to Google me as well .
To go to the YouTube site , I have a lot of great personal professional help videos on my YouTube site that are there for free . There's the various topics I talk about . If there's a topic may be of interest , especially run adversity or or basic soft skills , run selling leadership , go to my YouTube site . There's plenty of content .
Wonderful , and I'll put links to all that in the show notes so everybody can get that perfect . Thank you and Steve . Thank you for this wonderful conversation and for sharing your story with us .
Thank you , no , my pleasure . Thanks for having me , was fun .
All right , bye everyone . Thanks for listening . Thank you for listening . I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I did , so if you'd like to learn more about Manya ,Chylinski , , I work with organizations to help understand how to create environments when people can thrive after difficult life experiences , and I do this through talks and consulting .
I'm a survivor of mass violence and I use my experience to help leaders learn of resiliency , compassion and trauma . Sensitive leadership to build strategies to enable teams to thrive and be engaged amidst difficulty and turmoil . If this is Something you want to learn more about , visit my www . manyachylinski .
com website , Email me at monia at monia Chilinski , or stop by my social media on LinkedIn and Twitter . Thanks so much you .