¶ Intro / Opening
I think a lot of it is performative . I think there's a lack of understanding around the true impact , meeting by example and it's kind of the DEI checkbox . We've done DEI and this is check that box , but to truly look at an individual and understand their lived experiences it takes time . It's building trust .
Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience . I'm your host , manya Chylinski . My guest today is Leanne McEvoy . She's the co-founder and CEO of L2 Culture Solutions . She describes herself as a safe space and she believes meaningful progress begins with confronting our fears and embracing the discomfort that often accompanies it .
We talked about building a compassionate workplace , the role of fear , vulnerability and trust . I think you're going to really like this conversation .
¶ Compassionate Leadership in the Workplace
I am so excited that you and I are talking on the podcast . Thank you , I'm excited to be here . So the first question before we dive into the topic of compassionate leadership what is one thing that you have done that you never thought you would do ?
So I've been thinking about that question and I have a personal response and I have a professional response because I'm not just me as an individual . I wear lots of hats .
So the first thing is probably becoming a single mom after a divorce which , unless and until you've been through it and when I said the words to my ex-husband I never thought that this would be us . It was not something that I ever planned for and that has actually had an impact what I have done professionally .
So I never imagined that I would be a co-founder of a company that had the potential to become a unicorn and starting this company it was not the intention , but the more due diligence that we've come to understand and recognize the potential is far larger than we initially anticipated . So it's both personal and professional .
Wow , excellent , and before we end , we're going to get some details about your company . Before then , let's chat about the concept of compassionate leadership and just to start with , what do you think that means in an organizational setting Compassionate ?
leadership is so powerful and I began my career in the business world and had no real understanding of what compassionate leadership looked like , real understanding of what compassionate leadership looked like . I just used my own kind of personal values in recognizing the value of human beings .
And then I left the business world and I got my master's in clinical social work so I really understood more about human behavior and empathy and humility . And moving into the public sector , when you are mission and purpose driven , there is compassion tied to that .
So when you can put yourself in someone else's shoes to truly understand their journey , there is a compassion that comes with that . And my own experience is that most leaders don't have a willingness to do that , but those that do . It's a very different style of leadership , which I appreciate Absolutely .
You mentioned something interesting in your journey that aligning your personal values to the work that you're doing . And I wonder , as we're looking at leaders and we're talking about compassionate leadership is this a mismatch of personal values and professional responsibility in organizations where there isn't as much compassion ?
So interesting for you to ask that . And in the workplace we're taught that your personal experiences are left behind and you show up to do the job .
But someone's personal experiences whether it is being an immigrant , whether it's trauma , whether it's being part of a family of someone in the armed services there are lived experiences that go along with that , that define resilience , perseverance , determination , grit , empathy .
And in my career I have always , when I've interviewed and hired people , I have been more focused on lived experiences , because to me , those things are the essence of how someone is going to perform at work .
Absolutely . In general , if we're looking at a workplace , that hasn't really been the case , that we think about people's lived experiences and we think about what they're bringing to , what part of themselves they're bringing to work , and I know that's something you're working to change .
How do we change that ? And you're absolutely right , it's . We've got AI , we've got applicant tracking systems , where it is about the words on your resume or in your LinkedIn profile that either are going to weave you in or weave you out , and I think it's a huge disconnect .
Connect to what it really means to hire a person of morality and values and determination , and there are certainly companies that want to check the box . It doesn't matter who you are or your lived experiences . Where did you go to college ? What is your background ? Where have you worked ?
Okay , you fit those boxes , if you will , means to succeed in an environment at your company . Hr and people leadership are not always comfortable answering those types of questions , and it's the companies that have employees that do .
My own belief is that they are better positioned to retain top talent because they recognize the individual for the individual , not just for their hard skills , if you will Right , and you talk about lived experience and we've all dealt with something different levels but things that are difficult , traumatic , and we're all carrying those and we don't all want to share
that with everybody . I happen to be someone who does share my story . I know a lot of people who don't talk about the difficult things that are going on in their life In the workplace . As an organization , we can't require people to reveal what's going on .
So how do we build an environment that's compassionate and safe without requiring people to tell us what's going on with them ?
Yeah , that's a really sensitive question and very spot on , it begins with leadership . It begins with leadership being willing to share their own personal experiences .
Share their own personal experiences , and for a leader to share that they have battled with depression or anxiety , or for another leader to share that they have a child or a parent that they are caring for for different reasons . When people start to show that level of vulnerability , it creates safe spaces for employees to do the same .
What they have to realize , though , in sharing that information , is that it's not just about being vulnerable . It's making sure that they have the resources to support their employees , just as the leader needs resources to support them .
Yes , absolutely . We talk a lot about leaders need to do X . They need to be fostering this culture of X . They are also part of the culture and they are also employees who are dealing with their own life experiences .
What do you think we're not getting right in leadership development programs when it comes to helping leaders be more compassionate and build those safe spaces ?
I think a lot of it is performative . I think there's a lack of understanding around the true impact , meeting by example . And you know , it's kind of the DEI checkbox . We've done DEI and this is Check that box but to truly look at an individual and understand their lived experiences , it takes time .
It's building trust , and trust in an organization does not come easily , and a lot of organizations will talk about well , yeah , we want to build trust with our clients , but unless and until you build trust within your culture , it is not going to be the ripple effect out to client relations .
And so , again , this probably goes a little to my clinical background , but in order to build trust , there has to be mutual giving and taking , and the greatest barrier to trust is fear . And if someone is afraid of anything to do with me personally , there will never be trust .
So it's a process and when an organization can embrace , okay , what do we need to do to build trust ? It's not an employee engagement survey , it's not any type of survey . Really . It's time .
It's taking the time to establish core values as part of a mission and a vision and then for leadership to uphold those values and lead with those values and ask employees . How do you feel about this ? Do you feel safe ? Do you feel that this is a trustworthy environment ? And not through a survey , but person to person .
It's about connection , and I would add , asking the question and listening and maybe doing something from the answer . We've all had that experience of sharing our opinion or filling out a survey and realizing that it was just a dead end , that somehow it was a box they were checking , that we're going to do this survey and nothing has come of it .
And that's where a lot of frustration comes from , and that's where low engagement comes from , low productivity comes from , high turnover comes from .
There are a group of people that will just show up , do their job and go home , but there are also a group of people that are mission and purpose driven , that believe that their job is making a difference , and so they show up with a purpose and an intentionality . And when they do that , if it's positively recognized , it will continue .
But if it is dismissed or not validated , you stop caring . And work is such a big part of our lives . If we don't care about what we're doing and it's just a means to an end , you're never going to have someone who is really committed to being there .
What a difference it would be if you actually cared about your employees and showed them that that's courageous leadership , that's . I appreciate you saying the words , and it just creates such a different dynamic that is so powerful .
Yes , and you have used the word trust a few times now and that is such an important element of this . I heard someone say important element of this . I heard someone say trust is earned in drops and lost in buckets , and that really hit home to me because once you lose someone's trust , it is very difficult to get it back .
And if we're talking about a workplace setting where you have not listened when someone said there was a problem or , worse , somehow retaliated when someone reported there was a problem , are you ever going to get that trust back ?
You're absolutely right , and there are a lot of assumptions made about trust and I was on a call yesterday where we were talking about misinformation and fact checking and I use the term fool me once , shame on you , fool me twice , shame on me .
And there is a lot of rhetoric , there's a lot of broad brushstrokes and for there to be trust , there has to be a willingness to say I made a mistake or I was wrong . And when you can come at it from a place of vulnerability , someone is going to have so much more respect for you , which will only yield positive results .
However , if you deny , you lie , you scapegoat , you gaslight , it creates a toxic culture and I think in general , there is a level of fear put into people in different workplace cultures that you do this or this will happen .
You do this or this will happen , but as more courageous leaders start to step up , that's going to start to shift and that is my hope for the future of workplace culture .
Yes , this is a big question . What is the disconnect between us as individuals , who most of us have some amount of compassion ? Most of us trust people and can be trustworthy . Why doesn't that translate into the organizational setting ?
why doesn't that translate into the organizational setting ? Well , my gosh , that's a lot to unpack . So , like I said before , I have a clinical background .
So human behavior , trauma , multi-generational trauma , there's a lack of self-awareness for so many that , and I had that lack of self-awareness for so many that , and I had that lack of self-awareness until I was put into a situation of needing to address my stuff , us , these should be your values , and so we try and live out those values .
But then maybe sometime we realize that those work so hard , what we want the outcomes to be , and it can sometimes lead to a lack of balance , which then can perpetuate depression or substance abuse or any other maladaptive coping skills .
And so I think awareness , helping to create awareness of what people think and feel and why they think and feel it , and validate it , is a big part of the missing piece .
As you were answering , I realized my awareness of all of this came from my own personal experience and I would say I was a reasonably compassionate person before and I am leagues more compassionate now than I was before , after experiencing being invisible and feeling marginalized and then starting to realize this is not a unique experience . Many people have felt this .
It is interesting to think about the personal and how that relates to us as parts of organizations . Personal and how that relates to us as parts of organizations .
You know we're getting close to the end and I want to ask , in terms of thinking about organizations and workplaces , what is the biggest risk for organizations if they're not choosing to embrace compassion and building trust and leading with that vulnerability ?
The risk is all financial , because companies care about money and ROI . What it ultimately comes down to is lower engagement , lower productivity and higher turnover . When someone feels valuable , you'll get more out of them .
And you know I think it was Gallup that did the research and it is , I think almost $9 trillion that is lost globally on an annual basis because of a loss of productivity . And that's a lot of money and leading with fear or leading with distrust . People don't buy into it's .
People want to feel validated and respected and included , and it's humanity at the core . So , at the end of the day , companies that don't embrace the value of their employees , they lose money .
Well , thank you , Leanne . This has been such a great conversation . On that note , I want you to share what you do and the important work that you're doing .
I am a co-founder of L2 Culture Solutions and we are building a data collection platform that goes after lived experiences through a cultural lens , through a generational lens , through a community lens , so that we can ultimately help companies connect with policies or benefits that will actually meet the needs of their employees , so that it drives the engagement and
productivity and retention . Our tagline is because you matter and we care and the future of workplace culture . When employees feel that they matter , they will give you everything and then some .
Yes , absolutely . And how can people learn more about you or your company ?
I'm on LinkedIn , leanne McEvoy , and L2 Culture Solutions can be found at wwwltoculturesolutionscom , and I'm a safe space . So for anyone that wants to connect and learn more about L2 , I'd love to talk with you . Or if you just need a safe space to share some things that you haven't been comfortable sharing with others , I welcome that engagement also .
Wonderful , and I will put links to that in the show notes so to make it easier for folks to get in touch with you . Leanne , thank you so much . It's so fabulous to chat with you today .
Awesome . I love chatting with you .
Thank you for listening . I'm Manya Chylinski . I help organizations analyze their culture , focusing on building environments where well-being and resilience can thrive . Through this process , we identify areas for growth , develop strategies and create the necessary changes to build healthier , more supportive organizations . If you're ready to make a change , I'd love to connect .
If you haven't already done so , please subscribe , rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts or your listening platform of choice . It really helps others find us and if you want to continue the conversation , connect with me on LinkedIn or visit my website , www . manyachylinskicom . Thank you for being part of this journey with me .