Shannon Matthews

Nine months after the disappearance of Madeline McCann, another girl went missing. A frantic mother banged on the doors of each house trying to find out where her daughter was. She had snapped at her daughter that morning and told her not to come back, and this time she didn't. It appeared this mother's worst nightmares were now coming true and this young girl would never return home. This is one of the largest police hunts in Yorkshire history since

No, I don't think I know this one.

No, it's fascinating, ring Ring buckel In.

Whoa, Okay, he's gone with it.

Hey, there, everybody, welcome to not another crime.

Made me jump. But I'm Georgia La, I'm a journalist.

I am not. But I'll tell you what if you want to jump yourself, well and just listen to the story, you could do that. The time code is in the show notes. Thank you for saying that. I'm also on a segway riding around the apartment as I do this, but it's a silent segway, so you wouldn't even know.

I told you the story about when I saw a group of Segway tourists in Rome and I was.

Laughing at the places went in Oh god, he's is it in the episode.

There Go down Hill?

Did everybody?

Yeah? I was sitting at a restaurant. There was like a group of tourists doing like a Segway tour and I was like laughing and not like pointing at them, kind of laughing about it and looking at them being like, oh my god, it's most embarrassing way to tourist city. And then one of them like clocked eyes with me and start riding directly towards me. I was like, so I just did like I looked, I didn't didn't look, and then I had Georgia.

I looked up.

I was a girling Oh wow.

And I was like, Hey, that's a cool motive transport.

That is very cool that I want to do that myself. I'm walking in the opposite direction as I talked to you.

Yes, So that is my life lesson to you guys, not to point and laugh at people because it's a mean thing to do and they might know that is.

A good life hack. How are you this week? Laugh?

You know what? Fine?

You went to a good You went to Tasmania again.

It's going to sound like we're repeating the episodes. Yeah, because I'm always in free times now three times this year, once for a wine festival in Lonnie, once for a wine festival in Hobart, and this time for the first since my mom's fiftieth birthday party I've been invited to. Oh that's my first fiftieth. It's not a family one.

Yeah, or your right? How was it? How was it? Do you have a dance?

I had a dance? So it was yeah, friend of mine who married couple who live in lawn Ssteon, and I know them from when I was working down there. And it was like on a big property and they had like a marquee set up with a dance floor and like stern lining and stuff. And it was cocktail, which I dressed in and most people didn't Blumston's lots of whiskey sour or no, yeah, that's a different that's cocktail dressed up.

Okay, gotta got it. I don't get invited to anything.

There was a Shetland pony on the property, like in defense, like digs more than digs, And when all the fifty year old's got really drunk. Someone said, oh, get Pedro, get Pedro, and who's Pedro? They brought Pedro Presca. That's Pedro was a Shetland pony and they brought him onto the dance floor. He dance, he didn't dance.

He didn't like because they're lazy. I've always said that about SHETLMONI lazy can he digs eight notes? Shetlamponi. He's a real full horse.

The most oppressing part about this party is that I did the news story when you know every year there's a story on the news the night before, like the first day of school about like prep. He's getting excited to go to school.

Back to school, sale exactly.

Prep for anyone out of Melbourne, well in different states and overseas, Preppy is our first year of schooling. So I had done a story at their house because they have twins, so it was like, oh, these twins are getting ready to go to school, blub blah blah. And those twins were at the party drinking alcohol as their grown ass adults. Now so I've started taking metamusal.

He's going pretty well then.

Walking more carefully, so I don't have a fool apart from feeling old, I am much more agile than you, despite you being three years younger than me. Yeah. Yeah, because you've done your goddamn back in.

I have done my back in and it is so pain fall And when you do your back, you just can't really do anything else Like that was You're going to keep moving though, that's the most painful thing. And digs digs. He's going to show you another toy as well before you sheep. Yeah, he's really cool guy. I love love my back. I've always been really touched to it, and it actually attaches most of my things together.

I think, oh, that's really bad for it, really bad for it. Yeah, I don't care about mine so much, and I couldn't. I just use it for lying down on yeah, speaking of England, and I couldn't. I saw a condom rappot on the ground today. My friend and I giggled a lot about it, and I just feel it's six.

You've bit sexy talking about meta mucil and stuff. Yeah, okay, not slipping in the shower.

But.

Come on now. Yeah. So I just woke up cracked my back. I heard it. Oh yeah, and I was just in so much pain I broke my leg like a few years ago and was in a moon boot for like twelve weeks. And this time I had to get up and I had to walk Digs. Then as soon as like picking up for Digs after like going for walks and everything, I was on my knees. It started raining. I was picking up Digs's dog Boo in

Yeah. And when it happened, you had to go into the office despite being.

That much pain.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I said to you, I finished work at one pm today. You didn't need me to go and walk Digs, so you don't have to do it when you get home.

Yes, yeah, he said that.

I'd actually really helpful. Yeah, And do you want to tell the listeners what I walked into because I might gag again. I will.

You messaged me and said Diggs is thrown up and he's done a lot of poo on the balcony. It was not pooh yeah, bumwees. And so Diggs had dog gastro. So then Diggs has had dog gastro and so they're not. I had about back, so i'd take Digs to the vet. Yes, that was very expensive.

I cleaned the balcony. How are we not learning to turn your phone in silent? That's it?

No, it's it's a Sydney number. I'm not gonna answer that.

It's probably uber. We ordered dinner.

Wait, no, it's not I ordered dinner.

Okay, who's calling you from Sydney? There? Do you want to tell us about your girl? Stop tell us about your girl.

I'm going to cut out when you're making fun of me.

You're being really grumpy. It says if you're in pain or something, and I need you to get over it. I washed the balcony where Diggs had done his diarrheam, yes you did, yes, And I'm like, I'm not a gaggy person. Everything I say sounds dirty. Now do you are you? Is it just me?

I'm just sexy today, I'm in pain.

Like I'm not someone who, like you know, I'm fine with blood and I don't gain smells or anything. But I literally had to catch from it in my mouth because of the smell of it. It was sohiginous.

Yeah, but I cleaned.

The whole balcony off, and then just as I was about to leave, I was like, what's he doing on the balcony. He's doing a funny thing where he's kind of squatting and walking around. Oh, he's doing more.

Sorry about that. He was. He was so excited.

Did you ask him to do it?

Yeah?

Wait, what.

Practical joke.

To diarrhy when around?

And then when Georgia comes around when I'm around, that's awful. But yeah, it was horrible. I thought he was dumb. He's so well, so well trained. The horrible thing about it was like put him in the car. He looked real sad, and then we got to the vet, but he was but then he was very excited to be in the vets and just chatting to the vet, get to know the vet. And then they gave me this medication and he had a little ja as well. And then I had to drop him off and then I

Pin you down.

No, they didn't put me down, but they really hurt me as well. So that was it was just a fun day really around.

Sorry, I'm really sorry that's happened to you.

Yeah, it was a bad time, but hey, I'm back.

If I had a dog that did hainous diaryel all over the balcony and I wanted an excuse not to clean it, up. I would have pretended to put my back out, nusts my best friend to come around and clean it up as well. Really, second life hack I'm delivering to the listeners today.

Yeah, okay, yeah, right, that's pretty cool. Actually it's a very good life hack.

Hey, but before that, you had a massive weekend of gigs.

Had a massive weekend of gigs. I did six MC spot Wow, which means basically two hours of MCing for every show, which is a lot. Yeah, so the shows go for two hours and you have to kind of just be there the whole time, be alert, be ready, and yeah it was. It was a lot of fun. But I did do my back on the Sunday morning, which meant I had one more MC gig to do when I was in a lot of pain. But my

Diggs, buts is bigger than grand.

Yes, I know, yeah, actually a lot bigger than him. And Diggs was like and it jumps up and everything, and I was like, oh no, this is not gonna end. Well.

So it's just you know what, it's a good happy vibe in here today, happy vibe feeling you're feeling decrepit. And Diggs is just shitting, just shitting, and Pierson but he looks good.

Look at him now, he's so much more sprightly than he was yesterday. I think he's actually doing a great jow.

Now Broughturus to Yes. I was paying an attention to sheep No.

But before we get into the episode today, I thought that I would share something from a listener Lewis today. This is from Lewis, Hey, Sammy and Georgia. I got my wife to be into your podcast that when we bought our house late last year, Oh congratulations, and she was listening to it a lot where we were doing renovations, and now she's listened to every single episode and loves it. She said to me that she wished there was a list of movie slash documentaries that related to each of

Lewis has made a spreadsheet of our episodes and related.

Yeah, oh my god. It's the best. And so I put that on our Instagram in our bio the links there, so if you go, oh my god, I wish there were some more links or you know, just more information about what I could watch that relates to this episode, Lewis has done the work for you.

Louis your incredible.

That great. So he's gone back and done all of them, every single episode. He started right from the start and he's done every single episode.

Oh my god, yeah, Louis, that is like incredibly heartwarming for us to we forget that. People listen, we just bang on about our poohs and weeze.

And backs and that's right, pews and weeds and backs. But yeah, thank you Lewis. We'll love to have Lewis on to talk about the spreadsheets. Yeah, I want too.

Amazing that really, I just I can't believe people like us it's so nice.

And that lovely. But yeah, so if you want to look at it. Can people follow us do you love? Yes?

On Instagram and TikTok at not Another Crime Podcast. They can also watch full episodes on YouTube the same thing. They can even write to us ourselves. They could send us their spreadsheets. Yeah, to Sammy at just Another company dot com dot au.

Oh my god.

And they must leave us a five star review. And they must leave us a five star rating.

Yes, yes, And if you look on the Instagram you'll see a little link there now in the bio that has that very spreadsheet. Also, I want to say this as well. Watch us on YouTube dot com if you want to. If you feel so inclined, you can watch this video up there right now.

You can watch Digs bring me all the different toys.

He's yes, he's shop.

Despite having entire apartment to walk around, he loves to sit as close to one or both of us as he or dogge possible.

That's right, Hey, you ready for this week's episode?

Yeah, I really am.

According to UK data, the more time that passes, it becomes less and less likely that a missing child will be found alive after twelve hours ninety six percent of missing children are sadly found dead. Ninety six That was awful. After three days, one hundred percent of missing children are found dead. No, yeah, in.

The UK again, in the UK. Yeah, we're talking the other week about Elizabeth.

Smart Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now in the introduction I referred to Peter Sutcliffe. Now do you know who Peter Cuckcliffe is. Yeah. Peter Sutcliffe, later dubbed the Yorkshire Ripper, was a British serial killer who operated in northern England during the nineteen seventies. His crimes created a widespread fear across country and triggered one of the largest manhunts in UK history.

Was he the most prolific serial killer? Or was it like the stout I've got in my head that he was the most something?

Because yeah, I don't know if he was the most prolific, but yeah, but at least the biggest man hunt. He appeared outwardly ordinary, a married lorry driver with no obvious public profile. Now a lorry driver for those who don't know, he's a trust driver, Yeah, which made the investigation especially

Will we do the story on that one day?

Absolutely not. Oh yeah, no we will.

We've got to hook him into stay for something.

For something, for something. You ain't got no house.

We'll do more episodes.

Please listen now we need to start today's episode by talking about something quite hard to talk about, the class system in the UK. I think in the UK the class system has always been something that is spoken about, where other countries like us in Australia, it is much more unspoken, an unspoken class system that still very much exists today.

Of course.

Madela McCann, who disappeared while on a holiday in Portugal in two thousand and seven, was widely presented as coming from a respectable middle class professional family, media courage. Media coverage often emphasized her parents' status as doctors.

I was going to say, in my mind, I feel like I believe them to be more upper class.

Yes they were. Yeah are The international search effort and the idea of an innocent family struck by tragedy. In contrast, Shannon Matthews, who disappeared in West Yorkshire in two thousand and eight, came from a working class counselor. State reporting frequently highlighted her family's economic hardship, family structure, and links to welfare, with some coverage reinforcing negative stereotypes about broken

Well, even the fact that I just said, oh, I don't know this story yet. You say Madeline McCann and that's.

Like exactly a huge story in the UK. But I don't think it was like a Madeline McCain story. And we'll get into it later on. It raises public important questions about whose stories are treated as tragedies and who's a frame through suspicion and social judgment. The UK class system is less official than it used to be. Nobody is born with a legal rank anymore, but socially it still exists in a very real way.

All right, this is probably really naive, but people literally ranked.

Yeah, apparently it used to be like such a huge thing. I think kind of in the Thatcher days it was a really big thing where you were you know, often judged completely about your standing.

Yeah, I was more aware of the judgment, but I thought it was kind of like I thought it was very unofficial.

Well, UK listeners, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I don't know. I feel like it used to be even bigger than it is today. And sorry it's not spoken about so much as much.

Yeah, it would be. It would certainly be felt though, and a lot of it I believe is is, or has been, or was highlighted by different accents.

Yes, oh yeah, absolutely.

An accent would kind of tell somebody what class in inverted commas you're from, where you're from, and then that would be a judgment based on that.

Absolutely, people would.

Get elocution lessons. So someone I know it was born and raised in Scotland and when she moved out to Australia, which is like a teenager or something in probably about the seventies, had elocution lessons to get rid of her accent entirely because so she wouldn't be judged on that.

Oh wow, Yeah, well, This is what's interesting that you raise this because it's not just about money. Yeah. The class often has not a lot to do with money. It's actually about background, education, accent, manners, taste and expectations. In Britain, people often judge your class faster from how you speak than from what you earn.

How you speak or when you speak when akaa me just saying what you had written in your script and once again speaking before you could say you're written the script.

Think of it as a cultural opening system you grow up inside. So the upper class old money who they are. They're often referred to as aristocrats, hereditary land owners, titled family these dukes, earls, lords and families who have been wealthy for centuries. The key idea here is wealth is inherited, not earned. Our work is optional for those people.

With a life will a lifebirds be seated according.

To class exactly. Yeah. And the markers here are private boarding schools, Oxbridge education country estates are not just big houses, very neutral or posh accents understatement and emotional restraint and connections actually matter more than cvs themselves. They often don't talk about money because they've never had to worry about it. They don't need to.

They've just got it.

They just got it. Our status comes from lineage. A billionaire who made money in tech is still socially new money to them. The upper middle class, professional elite. Who they are. They're doctors, barristers, academic senior executives, media figures, highly educated professionals, doctors, barristers, academic senior executives, media figures. I don't why I say that again, but they usually earn huge salaries.

What I'm asking for a friend, a media figure who doesn't earn a huge weight.

So we'll get into that and what really matters in education, taste and networks. The markers of this is university is expected, often prestigious. They read broadsheet newspapers, knows how to navigate formal settings, comfortably comfortable discussing politics, art and literature. Whi's out feeling like they're overstepping their mark. Our children pushed towards careers, not trades, educated accents, but softer than no aristocratic,

I'm picturing Jack Whitehall in this exactly.

I think he would be that. Yeah, the middle class stability and aspiration. Who they are teachers, small business owners, office workers, mid level managers, skilled professionals. The key idea is security and improvement. This is the group most associated with trying to do well in life.

Media, yes, media professional A lot of beautiful Oh okay, yes, that is.

The marker is beautiful the market, there's a home. Ownership is a major goal in life, education scene as a pathway to mobility. Are concerned about manners and respectability. Our holidays abroad is an achievement, often slightly self conscious socially. The accent is regional, but moderated, often softened intentionally, but

Are there any songs you know about that class?

So? Historically yeah, historically the indust I know, Okay, we can do it later. Historically, the industrial backbone of Britain today includes skilled, well paid trades, so income does not necessarily equal lower class. A strong regional accent, usually direct communication style type, family, community, networks, practical skills valued over academic ones, and suspicion of pretension. Money is for living, not cultural signaling. Then we have the final one, the underclass.

The wind.

The wind moves unhindered across ridges and through wooded dales, where clear strands thread their way towards the coast. I'm ignoring it now. It is a landscape of contrasts, austere yet delicate, solitary yet deeply storied. Bronze age barrows rise subtly from the hills. Abbey ruins stand ruthless against the horizon and coastal cliff fall dramatically into the restless North Sea.

Whose sorry, I'm sorry.

In the small villages scattered across the moors, like continues, life continues at a measured pace. Stone cottages gathered around the village, greens, smoke curling from chimneys in winter, lambs scattered across fields in spring. To stand on the moors is to feel both exposed and anchored, to sense the immensity of sky and the weight of history beneath your feet. This is Yorkshire in its purest expression, resilient, expansive and quietly profound. Nine year old Shannon Matthews and I.

Want to say that was beautiful. That was really beautiful.

Thank you for saying that so much as well.

Do you know if Dibbley as in the vicar of is in that.

Area, because that's what yeah, I feel what she is. Yeah, it's very similar. If it's not, Yeah, in putting as well. Thank you. Our nine year old Shannon Matthews lived on a council estate in West Yorkshire. Council estates expanded significantly after both World Wars, particularly from the nineteen fifties to nineteen seventies, as Britain worked to replace slum housing and address severe shortages. They ranged from suburban semi detached houses

So not even a clear ant, not a.

Clear number no, which is bizarre. But there was always six or seven I've found in every report. Reports of the time described the home as overcrowded and in very poor condition, with investations a mice and insects, significant dirt and unhygienic living conditions. Accounts suggested that children were living in severe neglect and squalor. Reports described frequent and intense arguments between Karen Matthews and her partner, Craig Meehan, with

One thing I will say is taw like reusable nappies with tawel, Like that's what people use and have used in the past. But I feel like that's yes, I feel like that's not what's being insinuated here.

No no, no, don't want to non.

Single use nappy shame anyone.

No no, no, no no. But this was yeah, this was often plastic bags. They wouldn't bindappies on her plastic bags or yeah tow On the wall in Shannon's beardroom, there were notes written between her and her brothers. One read do you think we'll get tea tonight? Talking about if they would be given any dinner at all. The reply was we might get a packet of crisps if we're quiet. No one had noticed the other scribblings on the wall until Shannon vanished, but one of the notes

Can I just say if that wasn't picked up in the microphone, oh, digs just like coughed up a bit of toy fluff. You couldn't hear that and you just heard us get you.

Yeah. However, the family was later removed from the child protection register for years before Shannon's disappearance, and the case was closed. And this is probably because of underfunding and everything, like a lot of the time, Social Services will probably close a case out and they checked back and everything exactly,

I have an uncle called Martin, do you Martin Love? Which I've only recently found out is also the name of a former Australian cricketer. Never knew that not the same bither she was. She knows so much about cricket. You're wrong about that.

I love my wicket. I love my cricket. She was close to Martin and his children and it was and it was not the first time she had sought refuge there. Although we cared about her, he did not want to become involved in and arrange for one of his children to walk her home. Shannon cried the entire way back.

Even that sad, She's she's gone there. No refuge, Yeah, stay here, I.

Know, but I guess like as a sibling of you know, to his sister, He's like, well, you know, this happens a little bit. I don't want to get involved or be that person, like you.

Know, we're here for you. Come on, got to go home now exactly.

And you don't know how bad that is, Like you can't.

Blame you say it. In hindsight it sounds like, oh, why did he send her home? But it could be like, come on, Shannon, we've got to go sleep in your own bed tonight.

Yeah. The following morning, in the cold, cold house, Shannon dressed for school, black trousers, a white T shirt, and a black jumper uniform. She pulled on her pink rain boots trimmed with gray fur, picked up a blue striped towel and swimming bag, and prepared to leave.

You said that, really, I was kind of excited about the boots with.

The fur, boots with the fur looking at her.

The whole pool was looking at yeah.

And not fur as in the Vietnamese soup tom the morning of nineteen Not that I'm not saying that. I never said that. On the morning of nineteenth of February two thousand and eight, Shannon Matthews led the left the house quietly.

Oh the day we're recording. This is the nineteenth February.

Really holy, how the heck? On the morning of nineteenth to February two thousand and eight, Shannon Matthews left the house quietly, reportedly around eight a m. Likely without breakfast, on her own, on her own. At nine, her mother, Karen Matthews, was awake, and another argument began. According to later accounts, Karen shouted at her to get out of her house and don't come back. Shannon, ever returned to that house.

Oh God.

She walked to school with her cousins, telling them about the fight the night before and how she had sworn at Craig, her mum's boyfriend. She also repeated that her muma taught her not to come back because conflict at home was not unusual, The comments did not really immediately raise alarm. At Wesmore Junior School, Shannon spent most of

Oh God, that poor girl.

When Shannon Matthews hadn't returned home by four pm, Karen Matthews went to check with neighbors, but Shannon wasn't there. While it was unusual for her not to be home by that time, she could have stopped at a friend's house that wasn't unlikely or even her cousins. On the way back. Karen then went to the shops with Craig's sister Amanda, assuming Shannon would be home when they returned,

I had a phone then, but I was like twenty yeah, you.

Were luncheon and brunching back then, oh.

Yeah, on my phone, texted snake.

Played snake. Police arrived at around seven fifteen pm Craig and three other three so Craig and three the children answered the door, with Karen frantically searching the area that she was kind of knocking on all doors frantically this time inside. Officers found the house in poor condition, rubbish and takeaway containers piled up, closed strewn everywhere, and a strong smell of cigarette smoke. It was a very good ventilation in the house and it was really really strong.

To be able to check it out, like to be yes, we definitely know she's definitely not there.

And I think the class part of this is extremely important here. They were not a wealthy family, and also the police were not necessarily to be trusted because if you spoke out on the estate, social workers and everything would come in. You did not want to be a snitch on that estate. Meanwhile, neighbors had already began searching the estate. Shannon's father biological father, Leon was contacted and joined the search. Visibly distraught, search teams called out her

She was kind of just like that Auntie that get everything, knows everyone.

Exactly, and we'll go into the there's a dramatized version of this which I have not seen. We'll go into it later. But apparently the person who placed Julie Bushby is quite incredible, very very strong force, and someone that just led the community, kind of like a good version of a Karen. I guess just don't want to go I'm the person who owns this place. I know what I'm doing.

I was gonna say she's a bit of a Karen, but that didn't sound right because Karen is yeah, exactly.

It was a community effort. Everyone was sure that she would show up. There was no way that Shannon would ever have been abducted, especially in a place where everyone knew everyone. It was impossible. Also, they thought the night that Shannon Matthews went missing, it was freezing and raining, with temperatures around minus four degrees. If she had been outside all night, she would have been at serious risk of developing hypothermia. Aaron Matthews told investigators there was no

I've just realized I'm treating this as like reading a Who Done It? Novel? Every single name you're bringing up, talking something about them and going roightn't okay.

A note on Shannon's bedroom wall expressed it as I to live with Leon, and he said on camera that if she returned that things would work out. Leon, described as a quintessential Yorkshireman, showed little outward emotion, so quite like quite a tough guy. Really yeah, but you didn't.

Stereotype kind of gruff old Englishman type, like that's the stereotype.

I mean absolutely yeah, kind of rough and ready like you know that sort of person. And our police briefly investigated him but quickly cleared him of any suspicion. In the weeks after her disappearance, Karen actually visited a psye kick as a kind of a last ditch effort, who claimed Shannon had been taken by someone known to both

God how awful.

Cases like this where a child disappears with no immediate leads are extremely rare. And the longer, Oh, thank God, and the longer Shannon remained missing, the more suspicion and anxiety grew. The Sun newspaper offered a twenty thousand pound reward, and Karen and Craig.

Gave sorry, yeah, Yeah, far out.

And Karen and Craig gave repeated interviews. Even celebrities became involved. Leona Lewis, whose song Bleeding Love was Shannon's favorite song, reached out to show so bless. But as time dragged on, the chances of finding Shannon alive appeared to diminish, and

Julie Bishop is a former politician in Australia. For any over listeness that don't know why we keep laughing when he says.

Julie Bishby, Craig and Karen were repeatedly questioned and asked for intimate any information that they could provide. Police seized both of their computers and continued door to door inquiries in nearby Wakefield. The police training school closed for the day, sending every available cadet into the community to help search. Oh wow, Julie Bushby coordinated the civilian effort. People turned up uninvited, determined to help, as if Shannon could have

Oh my god, that quickly. That's terrifying.

But I think like in a small place like this, like the homicide squad would probably the same search team really, like exactly. National media coverage soon drew comparisons to Medela McCann, who had vanished just nine months earlier in Portugal and was never found, has never been has never been found far Ya. Sixteen hours became twenty four. Chief Superintendent Barry

That's an awful thing to say, say Jesus.

By that time, two hundred officers had knocked on one eight hundred dolls, a figure that would soon rise to three thousand. A helicopter equipped with heat seeking technology patrolled the area continuously. Divers searched a nearby lake and no effort was spared, but still they found nothing. Divers searched a nearby lake and no effort was spared, but still they found nothing. Meanwhile, Julie Bushby and Estate Residence rallied the community, printing hundreds of posters and T shirts featuring

Sorry, yeah, what.

As a musical about Shannon Matthews? The musical so about the missing the missing girl.

I'm assuming, but I hope I'm wrong. It's a parody musical.

What the fuck? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know if I don't know anything about it, but maybe he would googler this. But yeah, but I find that disgusting.

Well, I don't want to google it yet because I don't know what's happened.

After the end, Karen said through tears in the news report, Shannon, if you're out there, please Darling, come home. We love you so much. Me, your dad, your brothers, your sisters, everybody loves you. Your dad's missing you so much, Shannon, He's even out looking for you. Please come home. Shannon, if you're out there, come home. If anybody's got my daughter, my beautiful princess daughter, please bring her home safe. Karen came across in the interview as somewhat of a caricature.

Oh, you couldn't.

She just couldn't trust anyone. When asked if you thought it was someone she knew who had taken Shannon, Karen said, it seems that way because there's no trace of her at all. There's no trace of her swimming costume, her towel, or anything like that. She's taken with her. Karen told the press that the last thing Shannon said when she left the house was I'll see you at tea time. Mum, love you. Now a little bit about Karen Matthews Karen Matthews were twenty three when she had her third child,

Very everybody loves Raymond.

Les hilarious but yes. Craig's mother, Alice and another sister, Caroline, also lived nearby. The relationships soon led to pregnancy, and Karen had another daughter, her seventh child. Karen and Craig maintained close ties with Craig's sisters, but Karen's own sister, Julie, was more distant. Julie and her husband John frequently expressed concern over Karen's neglect, particularly her failure to provide proper

Yeah, they're not exactly going and dancing.

No, exactly. Police also released CCTV footage from the swimming pool, which allowed Shannon's best friend, Megan to realize that Shannon had walked in the wrong direction after leaving school, away from her home. This ray concerns as the area was not as familiar as people had assumed. With a twenty mile radius of Shannon's house, there were one thousand, four hundred registered sex offenders Holy sit, several of whom had direct links to her family.

Oh God.

The Matthew's household was put under constance of ailance. Meanwhile, the Sun newspaper increased its reward from twenty thousand pounds to fifty thousand pounds.

I'm like dumbfounded by newspaper offering.

Yeah, I wonder if it's after the Madela McCann disappearance. I wonder if it was like a big thing where it was like the paper something.

Yeah, that's their way of going like we'll get tipsy story.

Yeah, that's right. Around the time, a tip came from a local man in a nearby village suggesting people speak to a man by the name of Michael Donovan, who had previously visited the area regularly but had stopped coming after Shannon disappeared. Michael Donovan was thirty nine years old at the time. He lived less than a mile down the road from Karen and Craig's home. So who was he? Michael Donovan was born Paul Drake and was the youngest of nine. He grew up on an estate not too

His first offenses were us.

At the age of sixteen, he was charged with criminal damage and ran away from home. At nineteen, he changed his name by deed Paul to Michael Donovan, who was his hero at the time from his favorite TV show V. Michael Donovan is the main Hue human protagonist in V and its sequels.

Human protagonist.

A former photo journalist turned resistance leader. He organized the fight against the alien visitors who secretly planned to exploit Earth. Donovan is portrayed as courageous, resourceful, and driven by a strong moral sense. Weirdly, there is also a character by the name of Michael Donovan in Shameless.

Oh.

Michael Donovan is a recurring character in Shameless, portrayed as a tough, volatile, and fiercely loyal member of the Donovan family, part of a rival clan to the Gallaghers on the Council Estate. He embodies hypermasculine working class identity, often involved in conflict, petticrime, and family power struggles.

Do you watch Shameless, Yeah, I've watched the American one, but there's an English one.

I'm as English as original, Like, yeah, so I.

Was assuming, and then I was like, I don't recognize him, of it, But then we gal Gallagher's. Gallagher's is the same name in the American one.

Right, right, right, exactly. But back to the real Michael Donovan, real Michael or R. M. Found work as a laborer and driver delivery a delivery driver at an engineering company, where he demonstrated a little common sense.

Sorry, do we assume he changed his name to kind of not be associated with those pasts.

If it was for that or if it was just because he thought that was quite cool, right. He was described as a quiet man who mostly kept to himself. Michael Donovan was actually Craig Meehan's uncle. Oh, Karen and Craig had never mentioned Michael when talking about the family tree, so he was actually never investigated.

So they did a family tree of three hundred and fifty and even Yeah, that's how big the family were.

Yeah, and he was weirdly never he actually never turned up for any of the searchers for Shannon strange since he was part of the family and didn't live very far away. Karen and Michael had actually met the previous November at the wake for Craig's father. Karen and Michael hit it off when drinking beer in the kitchen after the service. Another member of the family walked in when Karen was sitting on Michael's knee, allegedly falling all over him.

So then he would have been doing if they were doing exactly, he definitely would have been door knocked in and I seem spoken to.

Yeah. Detective Paul Kenilwell and Nick Townsend got to Michael's home and knocked on the door, but there was no answer. These detectives themselves were very connected the case. To the case, they'd spoken to over seven hundred people themselves. A neighbor stuck the head out of the window and told them that Michael never answered the door. His car was outside, so was probably home. Michael never went anywhere without his car. Detectives asked if the lady had heard anything odd coming

Sorry, you've heard that for some guy who never comes out of his house and you're not.

But he had a kid as well. I haven't said this, but yeah, yeah, he had a kid as well. This was enough for detectives though the knocks weren't working, so they decided to force their way in and called for backup. The house was eerily silent until something really weird happened.

Oh my god, I feel so anxious.

One of the officers, Nick, heard a little girl's voice say, stop it, you're frightening me. But where was the voice coming from? As Nick moved around the house, he thought that the voice was coming from the base of a double bed. He bent down out of an impossibly small hole wriggled out a scruffy, scared and tearful Shannon Matthew. I'm Shannon, she told Nick Townsend. Nick Townsend burst into tears as he took her outside to the police car. It was the middle of the day, Sammy.

When you said earlier and you went when she was found, and you went like that, I just isn't that awful? I just assumed that.

So both policemen had thought they'll be coming out of the house of the body. The detectives asked where Michael Donovan was, and Shannon said, he's where I was. He's under the bed.

What are you talking about? What is happening?

And he was Michael Donovan was lying under the bed in the fetal position. News spread like wildfire.

You can't just move on from now.

We are going to move on. We're gonna come back. People were overjoyed, especially Julie Bushby. No one was expecting it at all. Karen Matthews did not cry. She was taken to the station by two point thirty pm. She didn't really know what to do, but Karen confirmed that the girl behind the glass that she saw was her daughter, Shannon. The joyful reunion photograph didn't happen because police said to protect forensic evidence, that she couldn't see her ride away.

Oh, that would be just impossible.

Karen and Craig walked outside of their home three reporters and kissed each other. Julie Bushby told them to smile to the cameras, and they turned back and let out like a big smile. So Julie Bushby, yeah, I know. A week after Shannon was found, Craig and Karen throw a party to celebrate. Karen told Julie Bushby that she had seen Shannon through a window and nothing more. But now the estate was going Is she okay? Is she going to come back?

A week later?

Yeah?

What is happening?

The community who had spent weeks looking for Shannon, were extremely worried. The next reporter that Shannon was actually doing well. They were starting to establish what had happened. Specifically, trained officers were gently questioning Shannon to establish what had occurred. In the weeks that followed, she would have daily ten minute question times at a special suite in a classroom at school. When Shannon was no longer held by police, she was then held by family services. She was then

What is going on? I feel really yucky.

Shannon sat safely in the back of the police car. The detectives took a moment to shake each other's hands. They told Shannon that everything was going to be okay. When the detective he has called the station to say that Shannon had been found, he assumed they meant a body. No one expected her to be safe. After weeks missing under Michael's bed, where he was hiding The police found a copy of the Sun newspaper advertising the now fifty

I'm like, I just I want to do, you know, I said before. I feel like I'm reading a book. I want to flick to the end, just to see the end and then come back and read the rest.

Police searched Michael's house and discovered a long strip of fabric emerging from a manhole in the hallway. When they found it, they found it had been secured to a beam. The other end had been tied around Shannon's waist to limit her movement inside the house when Michael went out. Officers also found a written list of rules. You must not make any noise or bang your feet. You must not go near the windows. You must not let anything or do anything without me being here. Keep the volume low,

Oh my god, why did it take?

Though the matter was later withdrawn after social services intervened, which is probably why we didn't hear it through the courts. Police believed he was preparing to flee and take Shannon with him. Leon, Shannon's father, said it felt like winning the lottery when he heard the news. Julie Bushby ran through the estate shouting that Shannon had been found.

Julie chill, bab yeah.

Neighbors hugged one another, shaking their heads in disbelief. Overwhelmed that she was safe. Karen initially stood frozen before breaking down in tears, followed by Craig. Police officers were celebrating, too, one describing the moment as like anything they had ever experienced before. News footage showed Karen and Craig looking stunned. At one point, Julie shouted smile woman. Why isn't she smiling? For God's sake? Karen, smile God, Julie, She's controlling the

I feel so anxious.

Police gathered from across the area, pulling down missing posters, ripping them in half, and dancing in the streets. The community believed it had actually brought Shannon home. The search had cost three point two million pounds and involved more than three hundred officers.

Which doesn't matter if your child has been exactated.

When police formally confirmed they had found her, Craig wept, while Karen turned away, trying to be strong and conceal her emotions from her other children. Officers offered to drive Karen and Craig to the station, and Karen gathered her belongings. There was so much to absorb. How could Michael Donovan be responsible? And why? Questions raised through their minds on the journey. But the story does not end there.

Better not. I've got questions myself.

At the station, Sharon appeared calm but confused, seemingly overwhelmed by the attention and unsure of what was actually happening. When Karen arrived, she was told that she and Craig could not see Shannon face to face because forensic evidence had to be preserved. Shannon was placed in emergency care under police protection for seventy two hours while investigations continued. They had to be thorough. They didn't want to kind

I feel like, I mean, I don't know where this is going, so I don't know if they're thinking the parents might or Craig and Karen might, like I don't know, have something be involved in it somehow, But if not, it feels particularly cruel to not let hug her mom and vice versa far out.

She would not return home until inquiries were Completearon and Craig were taken to a hotel for the night, both to rest and to avoid the press. At their house. At school, children burst into tears upon hearing that Shannon was alive. The estate celebrated late into the night, of course, led by Julie Bushby.

Who is this Julie?

I kind of love her. Local shops donated champagne. One resident set up strobe lights and crowds chanted Shannon's name. Initially, Michael Donovan refused to speak. When he did make a statement, he claimed he was not acting alone. He alleged that Karen Matthews had been involved and they had planned to split the reward money.

Nope, nope, nope, nope. I don't like that. Take that back immediately and change that. I don't like that.

According to Michael, he and Karen had agreed that he would stage the aductions of one of her children, choosing Shannon because they believed her disappearance would fetch the highest reward. Karen, he said, expected the fund to grow significantly just look at Madela mccairn no, and planned for Shannon to remain hidden until it reached a substantial sum no, after which

Oh my god.

He also alleged that he felt pressured to follow her directions because she had threatened him with violence, referring acquaintances of hers with criminal histories. He insisted he did not harm Shannon, saying he cared for her and brought her new clothes and toys. He had his own daughter, he did not harm her. When Karen finally saw Shannon through a glass petition at the station, she showed no emotion. No.

She's like a character that's been written in as the kind of almost unofficial, not the narration if you are what you get home.

She's had the voice of the people. They wondered whether the strain had become too much. Shannon had still not returned home, which looked really weird. Yet Karen did not appear outwardly distressed about the in fact, she wasn't asking any questions.

Oh my god.

She asked few questions and showed little visible anger towards Donovan, who was her boyfriend's uncle.

After all, it doesn't matter who it is if someone has taken your child. Oh my god.

In hindsight, some residents reflected on what they had described as erratic shift in behavior. In fact, Karen was still partying most nights while Shannon had disappeared, relaxed and even laughing with Craig when cameras were absence, but adopting the role of a distraught mother when media crews arrived. At the time, however, most people were preoccupied with actually finding Shannon.

Even I said, that's so cruel that they have the mom see her.

Police issued a public statement explaining that Shannon had been placed under emergency Police Protection order. An emergency police protection order while they established the full facts of her disappearance, they stress that her welfare remain their primary concern and that the process could take time. Behind the scenes, however, investigators were also assessing serious allegations made by Michael Donovan.

Yeah, they'd have to be because they can't like it.

They can't just let that go.

And it also wouldn't I don't think it would take that long to have like the like the DNA testing and stuff done to then be able.

To let the exactly hug their child.

And vice versa.

Yeah. Further complications soon emerged. Craig, Karen's boyfriend, had been arrested after officers searching for Shannon examined his computer and allegedly discovered indecent images of children.

What the fuck.

He was formally charged the following day with eleven offenses. Soon after, his sister Amanda, who lived next door, was arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender, and his mother, Alisia, who was also Michael Donovan's sister, was arrested on suspicion of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Both women were later released on bail.

Oh my god.

Frustration grew among Karen's friends as rumors circulated across the estate. Julie Bushby and her friend Natalie, decided to confront Karen. They contacted a police officer, Christine Freeman, and said they intended to press Karen for answers. Freeman agreed to assist, so they picked up Karen in her car, with Karen sitting in the front passenger seat and before collecting Julie

She just completely folded toe and Natalie. Yeah, after all of that, it was Julie that God had, Oh my God.

On the sixth of April two thousand and eight, forty seven days after Shannon's disappearance, Karen Matthews was arrested on suspicion of perverting the courst of justice and child neglect. An investigation was also launched into the role of social services, examining whether Moore had could have been done to safeguard her children from her.

Oh My God.

Karen had previously made critical public comments about the family of Madeline McCann, accusing them of being privileged and financially secure. It later emerged that a call had been made from the Matthews home to the McCann fund requesting financial assistance What. The request was denied.

While Shannon was missing, they called the Madeline McCann twice and said, you've got lots of money for the search for your for this child. Can we have some for yeah.

A spokesperson said the approach had been blunt, suggesting that Madeline's family had plenty of money and that they should and some should go to Shannon. Although the McCanns were reportedly distressed by Shannon's disappearance and had considered offering support, police advised them not to as Karen had actually come under scrutiny really early in the investigation WHOA. Police believe Karen had been influenced by the disappearance of Madeline McCann What.

What about her biological dad. There must have been reasons, Yeah.

There has been reasons there, Yeah, Meanwhile, Craig was convicted of eleven counts of possessing indecent images of children, all found on his computer. He was sentenced at twenty weeks in prison.

Twenty weeks.

Twenty weeks yeah, oh my god. But actually it'd spent more than that in Roman, so he was actually released straight away.

Having eleven counts of having child exploitation materials. Well, that's fucked.

Karen and Michael were tried together beginning on the eleventh of November two thousand and eight. The trial asked just over three weeks. Observers noted that neither displayed visible emotion as proceedings began. The prosecution described Karen as manipulative and as honest, arguing that the disappearance had been a calculated deception designed to generate reward money. The court heard that Shannon had been lured with the promise of going to

She was so obsessed with.

Karen continued to deny involvement. Reports suggested she was assaulted in prison, sometimes meeting Julie with visible injuries.

So she denied she was involved at all. Did she try to pin the whole.

Thing on Craig?

Oh yeah, Craig and Michael organized it together.

Yeah yeah. Julie kept detailed notes of their conversations, later saying that Karen's version of events changed repeatedly, even to her. In twenty ten, Social Services issued a statement concluding that there had been no clear indication that such events could have been foreseen. Karen and Michael released in March twenty twelve, after only searching half of it, only serving half of their sentence.

He's gonna say, what the hell. Yeah, that's not even that's not even four years. Oh my god.

Four years later, when Karen was released from prison, she was driven in a private vehicle to a woman's hostel. She underwent a makeover and was provided with a new identity. Despite the precautions, at least one onlooker claimed to recognize her immediately, remarking that the level of preparation for her abilitation seemed extraordinary, as though she were the victim rather

It's a psychic. You know that police aren't going to take that seriously.

The case left a lasting mark on public perceptions of trust and parenthood. Behind the headlines and corporatesed lies acquired a truth. Childhood is meant to be rooted in safety, consistency, and care. When that foundation is shaken, the loss is not the only harm that occurred, but the ordinary, everyday security that should have surrounded it. The reassurance at home is a place of protection, not one of fear, and that g love is a story of Shannon Matthews solely.

Heck, yes, old, Yes, my god.

Yeah, isn't that insane?

Oh so when you like, for a lot of this story, I was like, okay, after after Elizabeth Smart, we're going to do a story. Yeah that was abducted and killed. Okay, I'm not really on board with this. I mean, I don't while doing this, Oh.

My old, yeah, my god, yes, yeah, isn't it just incredible? Like the book recommendations as Shannon Betrayed from Birth by Rose Martin, The documentaries are The Hunt for Shannon Matthews and disappearance for Shannon Matthews. And there's a dramatized version which I've heard is great called The Mare Side.

And a musical apparently.

A musical apparently as well, the Shannon Matthews musical.

I'm googling, which we've discussed before, is really an interesting thing to do on an audio medium. But I need to see what these people look like, because I can't believe I haven't heard of this. I don't recognize any of these photos, which is terrible because if it was, you know, nine months after Madeline McCann, exactly, why do I know that so well? And not and not these well.

I guess because you know it was all a hoax.

Yeah, but not for twenty four days?

No, I know.

Yeah, God, I mean, I'm glad I didn't know it for the story because I was genuinely sitting here like hooked, like I was watching but not even a drue crime doc or I felt like I was just like reading a book or watching a story like.

It's because there's so many twists and turns that you like what is going on to a few podcasts that were so angry about Karen Matthews from the start and it Yeah, but it's interesting when you go, oh my god, no, she was safe the whole time, And I.

Was waiting this whole time for you to say, Julie Bush benect, she was a red herring, just like just Auntie in the community.

Red herring something like that. But honestly, like, I don't think that there was any like there has never been from anything that I could report, any sexual abuse. There was no form of any torture or anything. From all I could tell, there was her being restrained and not allowed to do anything, but she got to watch TV and got to listen to music and.

Literally just they just wanted the reward money and they thought that a good way to get thousands of pounds was to kidnap her own door. That is so fun.

Yeah, yeah, And also like you're thinking about, like how many million pounds was spent, like the state like Julie bushby like printing hundreds of T shirts, printing hundreds of posters, like and like they're rich people doing this, Like.

The trauma on that entire community of thinking there might be some kidnapper around. Was a kid around, but you know, and oh my god, that might be one of the worst mothers I've ever heard of.

Yeah, yeah, well, I mean that that is the whole thing about this musical apparently as well, she you know, has the red rings around her eyes like she's in the news report and everything.

Like I really hate these parody musicals that pop up about like real things that have happened in the world, and they pop up really quickly. They alwaysn't like you know, comedy festivals and.

Stuffed the musical Chappelle the musical, Like there's Creak the music. Yeah, there was one called Wolf Creak the musical. No, it's all these yeah.

Like there's you know, a Luigi Mangioni one. Yeah, yeah, just this like thing and that have written really quickly to be like, oh, this is the funny thing that just and yeah, just write a musical about Mormons or historical figure and the Beast America or something, yes, or the best musical I think.

Mister Beast YouTuber. Okay, but yeah, but I know I find I foind it a really interesting case. And it's also I mean, the fact that it was you know, hoax in a way undermines the class issue. But but but the way it was but in a way it was treated not as I don't know.

It sounds like the police certainly didn't treat it in like.

Any No, no, no, I think the police, the local police were really concerned about it and didn't want it to be scrutinized in the same way that the you know, the Portuguese police handled the Medela mccainn case.

Isn't it amazing how often it comes up in stories we're doing on this pod, how something has happened in close succession to another story and that's changed the way it's investigated, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. But like everything influences everything else, doesn't it.

Yeah, absolutely, And you look at like, you know, Madela McCain will has some stage that the Madla McCain disappearance. You go, okay, well, the parents were heavily scrutins at the time, but they were very classy. They were at to tap usp like you know, like it was just posed very differently in the media.

Well, just the fact that we know every detail of it so well sitting here in Australia when it's an English family on holiday in Portugal and we know it so well. Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was posed very differently. You can bring up the whole thing about John Vne Ramsey as well. You know Madeline McCain and John Vane Ramsey too, you know, up more upper class you know, quote unquote seen as classically beautiful children, blonde hair, blue eyes,

It's really fucked. And also like the I know, I think in in the UK, we in Australia know of a class system, where in Australia it is an unspoken class system where it's really interesting because is that.

It isn't I'll argue that with things like it's the same here in Australia, Like there are so many cases of particularly First Nations people that are killed or have gone missing, and there is outcry at the fact that it's not being covered in the media the same as other disappearances or murders or anything like. There is very much a class system here.

No, it's not spoken, Yeah it's not.

It's only spoken about in like when something like that happens. It's not like a general data taken.

About all it is it is. I think it's very silent in Australia. It is what the media deem is fit for them to talk about and what is not. I don't think it's not the same as it's not the same as the UK, where there was a there was an assigned class system and now it's unspoken. In Australia, we do not see class like we do see class, but it is not spoken about at all until it's deemed what we talk about and what we don't talk.

And I suppose that's what I'm saying. What is spoken about is people saying after the fact, yes, that wasn't spoken about because we're classes. That's when it's spoken about.

It is classes, but it's not spoken about like it's it's everyone looks at each other, like you know, if there's like you know a you know a home, you know, an unhoused person that is going off their nut, you know, like it is. It is spoken about, but it is not spoken about. And I find that really interesting. The people that would see my brother as a homeless person where they do not see they'll see me in a completely different line. It is, so it's not spoken about.

You literally grew up in the same house.

Exactly. So I just feel like, yeah, in in in the UK, I kind of saw like my digs please have a conversation, I kind of see my my view of it is, as a young kid growing up in Australia, I knew that there was a class system.

In the UK, yes, yeah, yeah.

And in Australia we do have a class system. We call people bogans, we call people, you know, and I'm I'm a glorified bogan. But there are people that you go, oh my god, that's a cash up bogan. Yeah, that's a bogan. They're fast North Queensland there. You know, I can't know, I couldn't pronounce that probably, but you know, but there, you know, there are so many people that we go they're that person, They're that person, They're a bohemian,

Didn't the right way?

Yeah, and so I don't know, I find it in Australia. It's like people that live in you know, a commission housing, which it was, and it was it was in a state we don't see like we we sometimes you know, like I remember when you know in the lockdown.

Exactly what I was. There were for international or even

So many other places, Oh my god, yeah.

Have examples of that. But you're right. It's it's you say, you grew up in Australia knowing that there was a really obvious class system in England, yes, and not thinking there was here until you grew up and witness it yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, you and I speak from a place of privilege where we go about you know, we're lucky enough to live, you know, being able to afford you know, like you know, rent or a mortgage or whatever. But you go, oh my god, like there's people in Australia alone that completely like they're blind, Like you know, like like a lot of the time people are invisible

Again, the fact that in Melbourne, Australia, I know every detail about the Madeline McCann case so well, and only nine months later, from the same country, a nine year old girl were missing for a month and there was a massive search. And I'm even now looking up the photos and go I recognize any of these people at all. That like the fact of that, yes, you can't tell me, that's not about it so sad, especially the fact that it was turned out to be the bloody mum setting it up.

That should be like it, Oh my god, yeah, bloody hell, yeah, I know, Oh Sammy, It's a huge story. It's a huge story. And so I'm going to go and watch the more Side TV show. I'm really interested in that, and I need to see the documentaries about it to look at the because I haven't. I kind of not watched the footage just because I didn't want to be bombarded with all these different interpretations of everything.

But just look up the facts and tell the story yourself.

But there's all these you know, the footage of the interviews and the press conference, and now I really want to go and watch Wow.

How did you hear about this story.

I heard about it by someone talking about it on another documentary. It was about Elizabeth Smart. It was a podcast. Listen to it and they said, oh my god, imagine if this was you know, Shannon Matthews.

And I was like, whos Matthews?

And I looked it up and I went, oh, this is a really interesting disappearance story. And then because it was a disappearance where they were actually found, yes, okay, because quite a rare thing. So they said Shannon Matthews. And then as I looked into it, I went, holy shit, children alive. It was a laugh she laugh a mom. You know that was another crazy element, wasn't the stout.

That you said that they said one hundred percent of children who aren't found in.

How long it was a few days?

Yeah, but that must obviously before this one.

Then yes, yeah. God.

Also, I must say so I know that I correct people.

You know that.

But the only person who does that more than I is my dear sister, oh CAC. And I know when she's listened to a story because she'll just message me. She won't say I've just listened to the episode. She'll just say things out of the blue, such as this text. Some other kidnappings without ransom notes Elizabeth Fritzel, J C. Lee Duggard and the victims taken by Ariel Castro.

Oh yeah, j C. Duggard's definitely on my radar.

So yes, we had in the Elizabeth Smart story. I'd said, I know there are there will be them, but I can't think off the top of my head kidnappings that have resulted in someone returning alive that have not come with ransom notes at all. My sister will always tell me wrong, these are the people. This is another one.

It's another one, for sure, and it just I don't know. I find this one so fascinating that her mum could stand by for the fucking long, like I think in the first place, I know going she'd fetch more because she's a girl, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It is disgusting and yeah, just and I feel so sorry for the poor people in the state as well that gave their whole heart to this, thinking this could be my daughter, this could be my kid. And then they're out searching

But you know, but Julie Bushby has her note pattern pen ready to go for her own e memore.

The funny thing about Julie as well. So apparently, like you know that Karen was always like a pathological liar, and every time she tells the story it was different. But Julie would go every single chance she get, just filling out a NOTEPAP. And I feel like I have I have actually looked this up, and I I know in my head, I know who she's played by, and in my head I know that this person would absolutely

It's what a great character. And she's not a character, she's a cute like an actual person. Happened, but it was such a character.

I don't know.

I was just planning for I was picturing that was going somewhere that she.

Some crazy I know, yeah, this woman, you would know her. Oh yeah, what chevn Finnan. But she's an incredible actor. That is just in every single theme.

I was picturing someone with the typical like Internet Karen haircut.

Oh okay, oh I'm wrong. Actually this is the person who played Julie bushby Sheridan Smith.

What.

Yeah, it's okay, just like a young hot actress. Yeah that's not what I pictured at all.

No, but that's it. Yeah, but anyway, I hate it. But anyway, that that woman that I was just talking about the yeah, chevon Finnanan. She is one of those actors in the UK that just go oh yeah, yeah, I know.

Was she in the show at all?

Have you just yeah, yeah she played it?

Just brought her up?

No, no, no, no, she yeah, she was a detective in it. So I think she's the one that actually finds.

Oh my god, that's whoa what a stories.

That mean anywhere? I wish you'd passed.

Oh he's doing a weirdle like double hand wave goodbye to me. I'm still like, you're gonna pressed up recording, but I'll still be in your house. Oh get rid of me, I'll find you.

Oh no, do you do the mailbag? Come back up with the elms? Hey? Gee, love you? Ready for the mail bab.

I always am and the female bag.

A nice one by the way.

Just trying add some puns today.

Some good stuff. We've got some lovely messages when people comment under the Spotify episodes. We've got Maddie rights. Under the kin Wall episode, she writes a reputation for brilliant. Who is he Bright's Courtney? I'm dead? That cracked me up. We've got from Jen Oh my god, my gigantic wild dog. Buddha was seven on Valentine's Day as well.

We've got but and Digs have the very same.

Birthday right, seven killer gram laptop, sorry, sixty kilogram laptop. Did you read sixty as I have? You know that I'm not very good at reading numbers.

We have six huge, sixty kilos.

Huge huge. We have Gemma the way I yelled disarm at my phone.

Oh yes, yeah, the bomb him All episode. For some reason, Sam and I couldn't think of the word for the opposite of detonating a book and you know what that episode. Also, I've had the most like real time text reactions from friends while they were listening. One of them was our friend Alex. So we've spoken about on the pod and you said in a speak pipe and there was no preamble to it. I didn't know he was listening at the time, I just got a message saying you disarm a bomb.

I was like, okay, thank you. Elizabeth says it's Bubba. How funny to hear myself on a pod. I loved. I laughed with you and cried listening to this terrible crime. What a mad Danish man. I must watch the doc but only after I've finished binging your pod. Nearly there, George. And my daughter g is a mad Hamilton musical lover.

But it must be a Georgia thing, must.

Be and can sing every song mad, excuse hang on check out. Unfortunately, she could never afford to see the musical, had to put other things first. I will gift her tickets one day when it's back in OZ.

Love you guys, and you know what, of all the musicals, Hamilton is the one that there is the greatest ever version of it on stage. But you can watch on Disney Plus, so if you can afford a Disney Plus subscription, even if you know, just get it from a month and binge.

It a lot of times.

That is the full stage production on Broadway with the original Broadway and so absolutely brilliant, so you can see it on stage. It's just you know, you can watch it on your couch with a glass of Jans or a bottle, and you can watch it as many.

Dives as you will, whatever the heck you want. I got this one from Lane girl. When will we see Powdry?

Sammy? This is what I keep asking you. I keep saying, can we record it mine? And then you go and quote unquote hurt your back, So we.

Have to.

Now we will. We need to record with Powdry because Poudrey will be all over the I imagine she did, like walk all over it's during the Yes, she will during the episode, and it's going to be amazing because Pody is fantastical.

It can't bring her here because digs will try to eat her.

Oh yeah, but he's got siga sauce, so it's pretty interested in siga saus we've got Now that you're ready for goddamn speak pupe.

Yes, I love them.

Are you actually ready for it?

I think so?

Okay, Hi guys, this is Sarah. I am chiming in because I just listened to your Kim Wall episode and I was so excited to share my own Real Housewives of Melbourne story. A few years ago, I was stating a guy who was at the Australian Open in Melbourne. I live in Brisbane. It's like a Saturday night. He's kind of tipsy. I think I was out. I was kind of tipsy.

He called me.

And he was like, Sarah, Sarah, I have the most amazing thing for you. I want to put someone on the phone. It's a celebrity. I was super excited. I thought it was going to be huge. I thought it was going to be a donner, but he was actually better. He then puts Pettiflir on is tipsy as hell. My friend's phone was really shitty, so the reception was really bad. I don't know if you guys remember, but on the show, Pettiflir wrote a books the bitch.

I'm kind of tipsy.

I'm really excited, but like getting frustrated because I can't hear her properly, says Verbatim. Girl, you gotta squitch the bit. Still love telling that story. I think it's the best celebrity interaction. I just wanted to share it with you guys because I knew you would appreciate it.

Thank you, Sarah. We appreciate that so much. I'm so glad that wasn't Madonna, how boring with that story of being is a queen.

Yeah, she is so Swish the Bish, I don't know, and swished the Bish. She wrote this book and it was more of a pamphlet really, which called it. She had like a full book launch for it, of course, and she had to explain what it meant, like what swished the bish man? I think it was swish, maybe it was switch anyway, but she kept saying swish, You're gonna swish the bish and and anyway, she had to explain what it meant over and over again. It didn't

The Bee is all about we need Pettyflir on the podcast.

I know, but I don't believe that she would know what the book's about either, and.

That is why we need to ask her.

It was such a funny season because every single time she tried to explain that, we just kept saying it was different every time. I think the explanation was different every time. I don't think she really had a firm grasp on what Swished the bish was all about.

Now, Sarah, if you I mean, did you said you were seeing a guy at the time. I assume that means you're not anymore, and I hope there were no issues with that, But I have issue with you not seeing someone who would think of you the moment they say Petty Flir, I think that's a green flag.

Oh yeah, absolutely, Yeah. We have another one from Sarah.

Good morning, Georgia and Sammy. It is Sarah speaking here, one time fan of your podcast, not of kind podcasts in general. This is my first rodeo. I must say it's really weird recommending you to friends where I'm like, yeah, there's this awesome podcast. It's about true crime and it makes me giggle all day long, and it's really gruesome and actually the stories are horrendous, hard one to explain,

Yes.

I thought it was hilarious because I had the exact same moment you had, Sammy, but with you when I ran into you and Georgia for the moment I was, I was like, Sammy, Sammy, Hi, I'm Sarah.

Oh my god.

I love your podcast and I just love.

That episode where all the people in the village in America shut down that guy in that car and you were just thinking or acting like it was completely normal. It is that type of yeah, conversation with someone a stranger on the street. Anyway, look forward to seeing you at a gig sometime soon. I need to prioritize that, Sammy.

The great work.

Guys.

I love the Pods. Oh, thank you.

Sarah, love you.

It sounds like we didn't actually see the show. We just were running into And that was in the same interval Sarah, when I said we have to go outside and see a friend. That's when the second we walked outside is when Petty Flue walked towards Sammy and he's jo hit the floor. Thank you for writing in Sarah You're the best. I know you listen to my podcast. Everyone has an ex as well, so thank you.

For supporting Sarah's the Best. It was so nice. We're in line to go and get another drink and classic and Sarah called out to me then, and it was so nice to get to meet her. I also loved that that was the exact moment when Petty Flir.

Walked in and there were two Sarah's who left speak ups about the petty.

Yeah, this one comes from J.

Hello, Sammy and Georgia.

Just a quick message to say thank you for this wonderful podcast. I actually normally hate true crime because it really bombs me out. But Sammy, I've been following you for years and I will listen to anything you do and even brought me around to true crime.

So thank you for that.

I just wanted to say that whenever you call Georgia g love, I just picked you sitting next to a gigantic glove. Anyway, I actually grew up in a house where someone was murdered. My parents bought a very beautiful old nineteen twenties house for unbelievably cheap had been strangled

Yeah, so I feel like that.

Would be a cool one.

Absolutely, it's not cool, but a good one to do anyway, Thanks so much again, and I hope.

You have a wonderful day. How about Jack, Thank you so much.

That's about the third person in like the last couple of months that suggested that one.

So yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that one. That'd be a great one to do. Thank you, Jay, We bloody love you. Thank you for all the support as well. That's fantastic.

I hope that other people are picturing me like you mean a glove, like a winter glove or like a basketball basketball. No, I'm a real baseball glove.

Yeah, I kind of think a mantle where I've got this big glove just sitting there. What kind of love? I think it's a baseball glove in my mind.

It's really cool.

Yeah, I'm really yeah. We would love to know what sort of glove you're thinking.

What a great shout out.

This one comes from Grace.

I love that name.

Hello, Georgia and Sammy. I just wanted to send you in a little speak pipe just to say how much I love YouTube.

This podcast is iconic.

I found you guys pretty late to the game, so my apologies, but it was around the time the Alissa lam case came out, and I have been listening ever since. I've almost caught up on.

Every single episode.

Today. I was actually.

Listening to the Macis Monopoly fraud case, so pretty early on, I feel, and honestly some of the best work.

It was so funny.

I was tackling the entire time.

The banter was so good.

I mean, the band is good all the time, but it was just extra funny.

I think so yeah.

Also, Georgia, in one of.

Your episodes, you asked, what is the name of your pet? Although my pet's names are not as good as Poudry, Hepburn and Missy Diggins. But I do have a Summer Lane and an Oakley May which few names I think definitely not as good as Audrey and miss Diggins. Yes, and a case I would love to hear is the William Tyrell case. I think it's been mentioned a few times it has, but never have.

I heard all the details. Well, as much as we have, I think would be such a good case. Anyways, Love you guys.

Bye, oh bye, thank you Grace. Yeah, we've been asked about that one too. A lot of people asking for Ozzie ones. Yeah, yeah, some more Aussie ones coming up.

William Tyrell would be uh, you know, it's such a big story still.

Unsolved, but it's such a big story in Australia, particularly.

A little Spider Man costume. So it's a beautiful, beautiful kid that yeah, well we won't go into it, but it is it is. That would be an interesting story to do and a big one to cover as well. Let's do one more speak part just because I don't speak parts. This one comes from someone we've heard from before.

You're already for this, Yeah, Hey, Sammy and Georgia. It's Ria from Glasgow in Scotland. Just leaving you a wee voice note to say hello and to say how much I enjoyed your stand up special Sammy.

I thought it was wonderful. I laughed, I.

Cried, I just really really enjoyed it. And yeah, all the best to you for the next few months of doing regular stand up. That's so exciting, and yeah, I hope you love it and you you get everything that you want from it. I also wanted to mention the Lucy let Be episode. I thought you did a fantastic job in the UK. It's been obviously very highly publicized and it's in the news pretty much constantly, so I quite liked the approach from a fresh pair of eyes.

I thought that was a, you.

Know, a novel way of doing it.

Is most people in the UK know a little bit about the backstory and have made up their own opinions, so it was refreshing to have somebody have a take that was completely fresh. So yeah, and you did a fantastic job despite.

How horrific the actual story is.

So yeah, well done on that.

And yeah, I just wanted to check in, and yeah, I give give a big cuddle for me. I love that, big boy, And.

Yeah, you take care and enjoy the rest of your days.

Bye guys.

Oh my god, thank you.

We're such a big fan of you. By the way, I love the voice so much. Anytime you call in any any message, I love you it so much. It's so fantastic.

I thought you were going to give us the correct pronounce because Sammy said that Ricky Moore episode and he said in the Scottish people, can you tell us how to pronounce? I haven't heard it from actually saw she made on the weekend. Yeah, she didn't tell me how to forgot to ask to be honest.

Yeah, okay, please do call in if you know how to say.

I think it's like that, that's exactly.

Do you think? So do you actually mean that when you say that? Yes, thank you everyone for writing in. We bloody love to hear from you. All you have to do is what you.

Love door repeat before you get to turn off, because people will go, oh, they're they're wrapping up now, So I'll do it. I'll show off.

Show off, show off people. Do you're curious because you're looking.

After just recognize ever looking for a.

Okay, whyn't you tell me about this then?

Huh yeah, I've already done those two. Well, I'm here. It's just good to get some admin done. Lines on the pod.

Yeah, this is good.

I've got to want to go. Clothing labels that are scratchy as furk. Yes, your clothing brand, you're about making things that people will all day. Don't put the label in a place that's going to be scratchy, or don't you use it with like don't don't sew it on with scratchy things because I hate it because then you have to cut it off and then you risk like cutting a hole in the garment. Yeah, cut it off, which means it doesn't have the care labels on it anymore.

I'm going to say wearing new goddamn shoes is mine at the moment when you have to wear them.

In okay, very more.

I hurt my back. I was dealing with the goddamn sore feet. That's what I'm dealing with at the moment. And before my back, you've.

Probably been holding your back wrong because you've been your feet.

Maybe that could did you get I've got some lovely new country road boots and it was very very very small for a couple of days walk in the city wearing those in so I feel like you know, I was, I was dancing, I was singing, I was having just the best time because I felt so proud. He's wonderful in my new boots.

And you looked proud and wonderful. I have the third life hack for this episode. I know it's going to come around to three. When you get new leather shoes, in particular, you need to wear in y. You put a heap of newspaper scrunched up in them and then leave them like that for a long time because then that kind of stretches them a bit before your feet have to do it.

That's a good life hat.

And I will say, when you said wearing new shoes, I was like, whoa, No, take that back, because I think new runners are like the comfiest things in the whole world.

Oh they are, but yeah, gorgeous boots. Gorgeous boots that everyone goes, hey, just quite beauty.

Shine them.

I did shine them, and I get them shined every day by Diggs's licks. I want to say real quick that there is a little connection to what I'm about to say. Thank you, Oliver Clark for doing the music. I had a drink with Oliver Clark on the weekend in between one of my gish and can I just say he is the best goddamn guy. I know we've been friends for so long, but I just want to shout him out.

I also want to shout out a company in Bayswater g Love because let me tell you this, my little noll No no, this is not spon con.

My little you know, my clicker for my garage. So you know, why don't we do a podry peeve. I want to do a dooting digs or something about this.

Okay?

Because I had a little garage key and I was like, shit, it doesn't work anymore. I'm going to have to go in. I changed the batteries. It wasn't working or anything. I called the guy who was just the number on the back. I called him and he goes, oh, yeah, all it is is it's a number on the back, and so all you have to do is something that's misplaced, and all you have to do is change this little number and it'll work perfectly for you. And it did. And it could have cost me a lot of money to

Have you made that up? We still a big pause before you said that.

No, it was Carl, and he was a really really nice guy. So thank you Carl for actually not charging me and just being a great guy. Because it says book a technician and I was a million but he just did it on the phone for free.

Well done, Carl. That's good doting digs for it.

Isn't that nice? Hey? G love? Can people follow.

Us Instagram and TikTok and not another crime podcast? You can watch us on YouTube you just search none of the Crime Buster as well. You can email us at Samia just another company dot com dot au can send us a voice note. The website is called speak Pipe. The link is in our show notes. You can use Lewis's Excel spreadsheet to find other places you can watch and hear about the stories we've done. On our Instagram page as well, and that's all A good night.

You did a really good job there, sweet girl on your girlfriend. We've only a one more thing to say, everybody.

Yep.

Ready three two TikTok book talk stuff. We didn't even talk about books this episode.

Don't need to. Fantastic catch Froze