Kim Wall

Today, I'm going to tell you a story about a journalist.

Oh is it about yourself?

Oh?

Got me a beauty.

These JOURNALI has chased down stories to the very edge of the world, only to have her own story cut short in the most unthinkable of ways. Today I'm going to tell you about the night of what happened, the search that followed, more on who this journalist really was, the smoking gun, and the prison escape attempt.

Oh my god.

Today I'm telling you the story of Kim Wall.

This has got everything. I don't know this story, and I think I say that every week, So please continue with your tale.

That's money that.

Everybody welcome it to. Not another crime podcast.

I'm Georgia Long, I'm Sammy Peterson, I'm a journalist.

I am not. But if you want to just skip ahead as always and listen to just the story, you can do that. The time code is in the show notes. Love Sammy, I have had such a lovely time meeting you today. Thank you everything and more that people told me of you.

What have they told you?

Yep?

Can you please tell me good?

I love when people say that they're expecting you well. I remember being in an office once where someone said oh good, I hope, and they went, oh yeah, it wasn't even know it was a oh lordy, dear me. Right.

I don't know why. I don't know why you keep talking about other stupid when there is one big topic that I know you're desperate to talk about. Because this your apartment today. It's a little bit of carnage. Absolutely, it's like, you know, like a college frat house the day after a big party, but it's less like red solo cups and empty beer kegs and more a lot of dog fluff and dozens of dog toys. Yes, please end me tell me why.

Well, so a friend did message me this morning and said, hey, I thought you were going to come and meet me last night, and I was like, sorry, I didn't text. I had a party pie party, which is so damn cool. Now, if you don't know what a party pie party is, it's basically a party where you have party pies at a party. Oh and I thought Digs was turning seven years old. Seven years old. He was born on Valentine's Day,

Did he know?

Those people kept turning up And because our good friend Gee Love and Diggs. G Love is Diggs's favorite person in the world. And I was like, g was basically doing everyone has an egg. So you were doing two interviews today yes day. The other podcast which is coming back very exciting and so you were going to be like half an hour behind everyone else. So Diggs, every person that came in, Diggs was just like, this is incredible. I couldn't believe it. And then the g Love rocks up. Now.

That's exactly what his face was doing, exactly. Oh my god. We moved blast, but She's found here.

And then Oliver Clark came out. So this is the first day I moved. So you and Oliver came over for drinks and he could not he could not believe it, and so the party yesterday was the best day of his life. My old neighbor Mish gave him a kangaroo meat log and so we had that for his Christmas and I didn't serve him that, but yeah, but I got that, and so he was. It was just a day where it was like, digs, whatever you want to do. So I went to the dog park. He's running around there.

Oh no, you know the rule of it rings you have to answer it.

Your mom gone, hey, mama bear, Oh good, how are you? We just recorded G and I recording an episode of the podcast right now. I g said hello, Hello, do you have any advice? Last time you're on the podcast, you gave advice about tap dancing. Have you got any advice for today, hack or anything, advice for today.

Let me think we'll.

Be wary of swimming in murky water. Okay, sometimes you knock other swimmers on the head accidentally.

And then was there a death.

No, there wasn't a death, but a headache.

Apparently, which is worse arguably yesterday.

Oh no, so have you had a big falling out?

Yes, I'm afraid again something for you will to beware of.

Thank you for letting us know. I'll give you a call a little bit later. We're just talking about Diggs's birthday.

Baddy.

It was an absolute hit. He loved it. Love you talk to you later.

By the grandma.

But yeah, but it was it was just one of those murky water and she's hits.

There's been a few sharks in Australia recently. She's making a shark thing.

No, no, she just hits someone. I'm not sure because also, like Philip Land, at this time of the year, it's quite quiet and he's like swimming. How do you hit someone in the head anyway? So yeah, so it was the best day of his life, popping his head into cafes just and I said it's his birthday, and he got some treats from local cafe owners. He was having the best day of his life. It was incredible, so best day I could have spent for Valentine's Day. It was beautiful.

It was beautiful, and he's very tired.

Very tired. He's absolutely exhausted. Anything I missed out.

There were like ten people. Yeah, you dig this seventh birthday. It was just it was really beautiful. He stole a piece of fairy bread off the plane he did.

Yeah, and a party pie as well.

And a box of more tesus.

Yes, a box of more teasers because he's very excited. How about your Gallantine's Night? Was it wonderful?

Oh yeah, yeah, girlfriends went out for dinner and called it Gallantines.

Some of the girls that we hear as well as Yeah.

That's right. Just had a lovely Mexican dinner. Spoke about Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl a lot.

Yeah, we loved it.

Oh, we simply cannot stop talking about it. It was the freaking best.

It was so cool. Ever, Yeah, it was amazing. And everyone that was upset about it, who like, it's just so annoying. I don't know who's annoying.

It's just racist people.

Yeah, yeah, I didn't know who Bad Bunny was, Like, I don't think people knew yeah in the world. Yeah, it was amazing. And we went to the Book of Mormon.

Oh my god, we went to the Melbourne premiere of the musical The Book of Mormon. Yeah this week, Sammy, please tell me what you thought about it. Well, tell me what you were expecting for I know you've seen the show before from this performance.

So I had seen it in twenty thirteen, I was going overseas for the first time. I was so excited, and I booked a West End show because I was like, anyway, I'm a big than of South Park. I've always been big fan of South Park. But I do not watch every episode. I just go it's really clever. I find it really funny. I find the humor really funny. Sometimes it's a bit too gross for me with all the shitting humor. Yeah, but I do find it really funny. And so I just love the musical when I saw it.

It was wrong when they wrote, like, you know, it.

Was wrong when they wrote it, absolutely and not.

In a way that it's like, you know, really a fency No, it's very rude. Yes, yea, but I didn't because I know it very well. Yeah yeah, And I only noticed one bit that they changed and like literally one line in a song that they changed slightly.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

So but yeah, people did that as well. It was absolutely fantastic.

It's incredible. I don't remember that level of hilarious dancing, dancing.

The dancing.

The dancing was so funny and so great, and it only lent into the belief of the Mormons, which I thought was so great. That they feel like they can do anything. They're there to help, they're excited and everything, and.

Their haircuts are precise, they're.

Very precise, but like the most amazing performance. So I also loved and it wasn't like they didn't have women in the show, but I love that the women of the Mormons were.

Always the men. Yeah yeah, because there's only like the cast all the Mormons are male, yes, and so the women in the cast are from the part of the show where they go to Africa. Yes, so there was there's one scene where like the Mormon missionaries are going off on their mission and they were like saying goodbye to their families at the airport. So they were like, oh, we need a couple of white women. So it was just the Mormon boys with like really bad obvious folk

At all, but it was. It was so funny. It was like I thought it would be good, but it was great.

It was so good, wasn't it.

It was so funny as well. Look I loved the whole time.

Oh yeah, my cheeks were hurting. It sounds like it's spon con It's not. We just really loved it. What was your favorite song? Please?

My favorite song is always or I Love Salt Lake a City, which I always loved, but I thought it was amazing. The one that I can't pronounce that He's always the one that was fantastic. The dancing in that age was it was just brought to life. And I've seen it once before, I've listened to the soundtrack a lot, but the way they brought that to life was incredible was your favorite?

I love Spooky Mormon Hell Dream. That's like when I was listening, it was so yeah. So when I'm listening to the like soundtrack, I sometimes skipped that one, but like the staged version.

Is so yeah good. It was brilliant, Like everyone was funny, everyone was great. There were little added moments in there. There's characters that just pop up for a second that like, that's incredible. It's so funny. And also like I think that's the thing about you know, Trey Parker and Matt Stone from South Park, is like it's actually an incredible musical. It's also it's not just funny. They've written credible.

They've written a musical to take the piece out of musicals.

Great musically, really good And because they're so talented they can write music. They can and like I don't know everything they do. Like even you look at Team America their film and you go, yeah, even the songs are so catchy and so great. What is it America? Fuck?

Yeah?

Comment again to say the mother and that is a pisce take on Americans. Yes, And so it's so that were it's so funny because they do just take the piece out of people.

And in doing that make a really.

Brilliant piece, make a really amazing piece of work. And g Love saw me absolutely star struck. It's not the first time you've legitimately seen me starstruck.

No, Karen from Sea Change, you were as well, oh yeah, but that was you were a bit more weird about that. You wouldn't like walk. I didn't want to talk to her two starstruck. You didn't want to embarrass yourself.

Yes, And then she came to a live show and I was like, hi, Karen from Sea Change, and my friend grabbed me and went her name is Katie.

And you know that. So we were out the front of the show at interval, and dear listeners, if you have been listening for a while, you know Sammy has brought up the Real Housewives of Melbourne.

Yes, a few times many.

He loves the Real Housewives of Melbourne. Petty Flir from the Real Housewives of Melbourne walked out of the doors and walked towards us, and SAMU went, oh my god, like this, and then Pettiflir said to met walked directly up to me and went, miss Love and gat me a big hug. Sammy's faint like I'm not exaggerating, and I say, your mouth like it was jaw to the floor, and you were just staring at her, and so I went, I.

Think I'm the only heterosexual in the world with huge family.

Petty fl So I said, this is Sammy, he loves you, this is Pettyflir. And Sammy, you looked at her and you went, now I've met you and Janet Roach I do remember.

That, yes, And also I'd like to add a bit as an out of body appearance. I didn't bring that up forgot.

We have to see her again.

Janet Roach I met twice. You remember. Once I met her at Rob Mills's birthday party. She was just out of the front. She get all Mills, he wouldn't mind and something like that, and major Janet Roach. I kept filling a Janet Roach. And then I saw her at the airport.

Told that story on here before.

Oh my god. And someone next to me was like, what's the deal?

Who is that?

No one knows? But yes, so pettifloir incredible.

And then I said, can Sammy please get a photo with you? Because I knew you wouldn't have asked, and you desperately would have.

Yes, And so then she put her leg across my waist. Incredible stuff. And then she asked if she could get a photo on her phone.

Yes, of you.

And then she followed me on Instagram dot com and then she said you have amazing energy.

Oh well, she's right, but it was.

It was so lovely.

So you telling me right now on the record, you and pet Flair in a relationship.

Yeah, committed relations sexual. Ah, it's not there yet, but it will be soon. Oh my god.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like I keep saying to you that diggsi but Diggs is seven. Yes, yes, he wants to have his first kiss this year.

No, I don't know.

You get this.

It makes my heart hurt when you say, Sam. He's been saying for the first like two months of this year. Digs is thinking because he turns seven this year, maybe seven with the age where he gets his first he has his first kiss.

Yeah, I don't know why.

It hurts my heart. It makes me a little.

Bit such a gentleman, and I think he would be so he.

Did, he'd be a big, a good kisser.

Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. Practices on dad quite a lot, but not in that way. Just so he just likes to give me a kiss. But I reckon. And this is why I want you to take him to the dog park, because you get embarrassed around me.

Digs would, yeah, but if you could.

Take Himo the dog park to help his chat to girls and stuff like to chat to. There's a Primrose who was a little bulldog.

It's the best name for him.

So cute, a little beautiful primrose, and he was always just like like really cute with her, Like we just kind of sidle up to her and just stand.

So you're asking me to take your dog to the dog park and help him flirt with Primrose the bulldog.

Have his first kiss. Wouldn't that beautiful? No, talk to me about it for ages after.

I don't really, he's looking at me funny. Now tell me.

Embarrassed jobs please JEMs. But yeah, so Digs will maybe have his first kiss this year, and I will consummate my relationship with Petty Flair. And I'm putting that on the record right now.

I've got one question, follow up question. Is that a threat or a promise?

It's a threat and a promise.

Oh should you take that out?

Why?

No, no reason, Petty Flir. If you're listening, blink twice.

But yeah I was. I was so star struck. And it really doesn't happen. I think it is for me. It is people who you've either grown up watching. So for me, see Change was the show that I watched with my family growing up. So you have this idea of people and for Real Housewives and Melbourne. I watched every single episode in COVID. Oh that like it's.

Your Yeah, it's like that bubble time of.

Bubble time of going. That's when I watched Celebrity.

That's when I watched Ship's Creek. So that's my show from that time. It was dedicated time because you were never out doing anything else, Like every night it'd be like, should we watch for more episodes?

Yeah, it's like a time capsule moment my my friend. And I'm not going to say the name because of name.

Mom. Hey, how much do you like Real Housewives? Do you get this reference name? Mom?

I love that name. So name. So he once saw Scotty Camp and he went, I fucking loved Scotty Camp. And it was the funniest thing I've ever heard because it was Scotti Cam, who is from the block, the block. I don't even know the block, and he just kept saying, oh my god, Scotty Camp, it's got a camp because he decided to watch all of like all of the block, Like he just started watching all the episodes all the block, which.

Which if you're listening from overseas and you don't know this show, it's a renovation reality.

Oh my god, we needed to get you out of here. It was too much like just being excited about Scotti Camp. But I feel like people have and I'd love to hear from your listeners. If you have a person.

A niche, a niche celebrity.

It can't be like, oh my god, Margo, Robbie or anything. It has to be such a niche.

That other people would go whoa really Yeah?

Yeah. Have you had one of those where it's like, I think, cac your sister. It's like that was Robs and Mills.

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh my god, so Joe Christie and Joel Christie Joel crazy. Yeah, she's a bit more cool with Joe Crazy now, but she still loses her mind over Rod meals. We like, we're good friends with Rob Mills. Yeah, so Katie is now my sister, not if you're miss Vanity. That wasn't very good. I started saying it was good though it was. That's okay, and we'll just cut that out.

Edit it.

Yeah, but do not edit the consummate the relationship with Petty Flair. Do not edit that bit out.

This is gonna be this story is really long. We've been bullshitting on for someone. No one cares about anything.

I think they do. That's why you're wrong, Triky Babe, Heychookie babe, I'm never wrong.

I'm never wrong. I think we should get a crack on with the story. Yes, but Katie loves Rob Mills.

Yeah, yeah, okay, so right, whatever we would love to hear from you. We're gonna do the mailbag section as always at the end. Please do right in Sammy at just Another Company dot com dot au. You can leave a speak pipe below. That's a voice that you can leave us. We love hearing your voice.

You must leave us a five star review. You must leave us a five star rating.

That's right.

Let's get into this week's episode.

Now. Today. I need a big shout out at the top of this story. Yes, thank you, and a credit to our good friend Taylor who I work with. Taylor ghost wrote this episode. So she's a writer. Yeah, and she's working with me at the radio station at the moment and doesn't have as much of an opportunity to do kind of creative writing. And she listens to this podcast and loves it, and she said can you famously

So good, because Taylor also did mention you told me before this that takes a lot of work to write one of these episodes.

She goes, I really enjoyed writing, and like I enjoyed writing, but fun, I'm not doing that again. That drooks so fucking long. I know that's why when you said you're doing yes. So this episode is written by and edited and presented Sorry, written by Taylor and edited and presented by yours Georgia and Ruth Love. And if you're wondering, my birthday is on the thirtieth of August.

Thank you for saying that.

So, as I said in the intro, today, I'm going to tell you a story about a journalist who chased stories right around the world, only to have her own story end and become a huge story of its own. Kim Wall was an award winning Swedish reporter. Go on, I know what you want to do. Tell the chef, tell the story about your Swedish friend the other night.

I feel like it's too early for me to get sidetracked by the Swedish chef. I'll tell this, Just do the Swedis chef.

No, she had a passport full of stamps and a binder full of stories that most journalists wouldn't even dare to, stories from nuclear testing in the Marshall Islands to post war tourism in Sri Lanka and tiger poaching in India.

Tiger poaching yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah for like the run you know, really which people have like tiger skin.

Runs and doctor Phil and doctor.

People and doctor Phil. Kim had even slipped into North Korea at one point because that's where she found the story was.

Oh my god.

She was fearless as much as she was curious and was committed to giving a voice to people that the world often overlooked. She was born on August tenth, how many days from twenty? Who days? Oh wait, no, she says butt. On August she was she might don't. On August tenth, twenty seventeen, when she stepped was born, No, the next line, yeah, it's really.

Good when someone else writes for you. Around.

I have gone through and like changed things into my.

Clearly around.

On August tenth, in twenty seventeen, when she stepped aboard a homemade submarine.

This is what's why, a homemade submarine.

And she was getting on it. For a story. Yeah, okay, that day her own story would come to an end.

Look, homemade, fine for pasta fine for a beautiful source, you know what.

Good for past up, but not fun to do takes so long. Oh it's fun to do past.

Don't get me wrong, But yeah, I think a homemade submarine is not.

I think anything that go like anything that goes, Yes, things that make you her, things that take you underwater for an extended period of time.

Yes, let's go through that one.

Come with me.

Flounder, Yeah, yeah.

Like submarines obviously, yes, scuba diving. I'm just like, you're not meant Humans are not meant to be underwater, No, for a long period of time where they can't breathe.

That's why the fish is trying to lure you in.

You know you can't breathe under their area. Need some friends, right with gills, with gills, especially for a named gil, it would be great. So if it is homemade and is something that takes you under the water for an extended amount of time, like a homemade fish or a submarine, which is what Kim War went on on August ten.

Right.

Kim was born in nineteen eighty seven in the small Swedish town of Trellerborg.

Trellerburg.

Yes, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. I'm sorry if I'm not. And both of her parents, Ingrid and Joakim, were both journalists.

As well waquin pinnimps No.

It was yes, yeah, no, both journals as well, both journalist. Storytelling was literally in her blood. Her parents took her across Europe before she could even walk or talk. They were very well traveled, very learned. They were juggling reporting trips with holidays and raising a daughter who was absorbed being absolutely everything around her. She was just her brain was a little sponge, and she loved her. They taught Kim what made a good article, how to ask the

You Ganda, Oh my god, I'm not going to do the song because.

Uganda is the place in Africa that Book of Mormon is set from. Africans are African, but we are Africa. But when he says you're Ganda, he goes, where is that?

Oh bye?

Like lying king, That's what I thought you were going to do. Anyway, She moved through China, Sri Lanka, Uganda, Haiti, North Korea, India, and the Marshall Islands. Is all for her own reporting on her own. Yeah, she was really driven by a commitment to give smaller and marginalized communities of voice. Sure, no matter the risk to getting the story.

She's amazing love him well.

She didn't just cover stories. She really delved into harder for them.

Wasn't she.

Yeah.

I find it really interesting when journals become so obsessed with the story. And I think at some point we'll talk about the Golden State Killer and yes, you know Michelle McNamara like people like that that become so obsessed on one story, even like Ritas Vickibtradas. Yeah, very similar actually, and just people that become so obsessed with something.

Yeah.

I just find that so like you know, Watergate like stuff, like we've become all.

Their time and energy and effort into one that is fascinating. Yeah, I would like I've definitely got the intrigue and curiosity to do that. I'm like, this is what I think when journos, you know, uncover some massive, big scoop and breaking story that they've been working on for six months

I dream about Helen Ghana last night. I want to tell this really quickly, really quickly, horny, I'm Hony Well talk about Petty Flair and Helen Ghan. So, Helen Ghana I wrote a love letter to in a dream, actually did and I'm back with corrections. Red pen through that.

Ah, she's one of mine. I feel like that is the amount of time you and I have been together. That is that infiltrating your dreams. I love Helen. What

But yes, I can imagine him doing that. Also, your beautiful Snaide message Movie four saying I'll have to go down and some grapes of mirth and hang out with her and go down to Lone Sense Britain was yeah, yeah, anyway, it doesn't matter.

We'll catch up with later later.

Sorry, we'll catch up later. People people still like went in a tell that amazing Swedish chef story that's coming that later.

That's called a hook.

And no one's sticking around for.

That when he said at the start, like if you want to just listen to the story, people have just like searched the name Kim Wall and they've not heard this podcast before. They ione listening to the story, like.

I remember how gun last night. I was small, small.

Way into the story. You're going, oh, by the way she made message mean Niki.

Britain's in, it really doesn't matter.

By early twenty seventeen, Kim Wall was living in Copenhagen with her partner All seventeen.

She was born no.

I said that one before they had only been dating for a couple of months, but things had moved really quickly and they'd moved into an artist's loft overlooking Copenhagen Harbor. Sounds so cool. It was really trendy, which is a very trendy word. Trendy. Trendy in like a cool industrial neighborhood, kind of like meatpacking District of New York, filled with creatives. And interestingly it was also full of amateur rocket builders.

Yeah really, yes, amateur rocket builders is the scariest thing of a verd.

Just down the road from where Kim and All lived was Rocket Madsen's Space Lab, a community attempting to build a crowd funded Danish space program.

That's insane. So like crowd crowd fund to be able to do.

That, crowdfunded version of NASA in.

You shouldn't be able to do that, should be laws in place, build your own rock.

But you know who would find that fascinating? Kim Wall? Yes, of the subject of the story.

Yes.

For her as a journalist, this story was irresistible. She began interviewing members of this program for a piece that she was writing for Wired.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

It always makes me think of Simpsons when he's reading and he thinks it's weird.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Uh.

And this is the first time Kim Wall heard the name Peter Madsen.

Wow.

So remember it was called the Rocket mads Space Lab.

Okay, very different.

Peter Madsen was an eccentric inventor. Has anyone who's ever been labeled an inventor been anything other than extent?

Yeah? Like La Musk.

He was a minor celebrity in Denmark. He was a man who owned and built rockets, submarines and had a reputation for brilliance.

A reputation for brilliance. Oh my god, who is he Brice Courtney. When are you going to build a spaceship? Yes, you know, I can't talk. When uh are you going to go into how he made all his money? Okay, no, no, great. I just want to know because if you're building rockets and stuff, and if you're like an eccentric scientist, you wonder where that money comes from because there must be some sort of investor that goes I believe in you, and that means they become more and more eccentric.

Yes, exactly, because there's someone talking to them about how well this is crowdfunded.

Sure, remember remember.

Right, So Kim reached out to Peter Madsend, but weeks passed without her ever hearing back. Then months and she thought, I'm never going to hear back from this man. Then suddenly, out of the blue, after months of hearing nothing, on August tenth, twenty seventeen, Oh.

My god, twenty days before your birthday.

That's right, Peter replied he had a test rocket due to launch the day prior, but it was canceled because of financial issues. Sure, crowdfunding both make that?

What's gross?

You were both pictured as well, aren't we? Oh yuck? Move on, Move on, move on. So the rocket Launch will test. Rocket Launch was meant to have launched there before it was canceled. But Peter was eager to stay in the spot and have his program remain in the spotlight pretty like.

He wasn't obviously a private person before this. He was very centrick and gave lots of years and everything. Yeah.

Absolutely, Um.

She'd been writing to him for a while.

Yeah, and he never got back to her. I think because he was planning this Rockett think that was what was on his mind, and he thought this will be in the news anyway, I don't need to get back to one. Yeah, Jo. But then when it was canceled, he was like, shit, I want to be in the spotlight. I need I want a story about me. So not only did Peter Madsen agreed to do the interview, he actually invited Kim aboard his own personal eighteen foot submarine named the UC three Nautilus.

Great name. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's how big is that? Eighteen foot? Yeah? But how big is I don't even know?

Yeah, Well, if you think six foot is like, you know, you're about six.

Foot, I'm I'm about I'm way tall. That probably twice of that you think you're twice six you think that, Yeah, I'm about twelve feet tall, I'm about I'm about four subway sandwiches.

Yes, wait no, into okay, so you're two feet tall? Yes, yes, okay. So this submarine was for five point five meters.

Not huge. No, that's quite small, I would think for a submarine for two.

People to be. I guess you can't make anything bigger than six meters by yourself.

Yes, of course that's the rule.

That's the rule economics.

That's really interesting though, because that doesn't seem.

No, that's not big, like I reckon your couch is about two meters because yes, okay, so it's a bit more than double.

That's great for the listeners to about visual What if I what if I go, what is the regular size.

Of a submarine?

What is? Yeah? What is what is the standard?

No?

But it's not like I think you can get submarines anywhere from like a little thing that one person could fit in and like an army submarine that's obviously going to be much bigger. That's like saying, what's the standard size of a boat.

It is approximately sixty to eighty meters.

So yeah, but what like what kind of submarine?

Surely is standard submarine? Get over it often range between attack submarines.

Often range you're asking me, you're giving me.

Attack often range between seventy and one hundred and fifteen meters.

This one is five and a half.

Ballistic missile submarine.

I don't like this has got a funny place.

I often exceed one hundred and fifty meters. Okay, yeah, yeah, right, So there can be lots of different sizes, but this does seem.

Can I show you how far we are to the story?

Doesn't matter? This is I've got five hours anyway. I feel like that is quite small for a submarine.

It's a small submarine there, I said it.

Okay, okay, And if you've got a fish next to you going come down, come down.

Come on in the water is fine, just fine under us? See under us. He it was supposed to be a quick ride, n As pleases to be a one hour interview aboard the submarine, just enough time for Kim to grab a story and make it back to the going away party that she and all were hosting that night.

On the Submarine Doctor, or if you call it that, or the submarine submerged.

I think submarines are. Once they're in the water, they're always submerged. They don't like to tarn for a while. No, no, I think just one doctor, yeah, doctor birthed, birthed. You didn't ask me why they're having going away party?

Going away party.

They were set to move to Beijing in a week's time, and while the timing wasn't ideal to go and do an hour interview for this exclusive story a week before they were moving and the night of the going away party, Kim was a journalist who would never pass up a good story.

Bloody Candy's white over here.

So all agreed to start the party without her if she wasn't back in time, and she promised to join everyone as soon as the interview wrapped up. That is like green flag behavior, babe. If you like, if you want to do this and you need to do this, and you think it's going to be a great story, go don't worry about us, Come join us whenever.

I'm joining us. Later, on Valentine's Day, met just opening up a love letter written back with just all these red lines.

Did you say anything back or just this is the red lines? That's my love language? Correct you? So at around seven pm on August ten, Kim walked the short distance from her loft apartment to the dock. It was so close that all and their guests could actually see where the submarine was from their apartment window. They watched Kim climb aboard the Nautilus with Peter. They were like, oh, look, we'll see you after they could actually say. It made

She right, okay, yeah, cook cook could be quite a fun thing to write, like, I'm fine.

Yeah, yeah, I'm still alive. But going down.

Now, going down now.

I love you. A moment later her final text, he brought coffee and cookies though, and those were the last words anyone would ever hear from Kim.

Or my god, So going down like that. So that was a part of the plan though.

Yeah, So it was like kind of going on board, doing their interview in there, and then he's probably gone. You want to see how it works, Like let's just go because it was only meant to be an hour the whole thing, and after an hour she's gone, I'm still alive. Don't worry, but we're going down now. I love you. He's got coffee and cookies.

Okay.

What happened next inside that submarine would become one of the most shocking and weirdest true crime cases in Scandinavian history, but just in history.

Yeah.

So who was Peter Madsen? Cue to many in Denmark? He was an eccentric inventor and Elon Musk type. Yeah, of course, with big dreams of building rockets, submarines and conquering space travel.

Yeah, and economical car.

Are you okay?

What happened then?

I'm not sure. I was trying to say something about the Tesla, but then I kind of got confused.

Economical color. Yeah, my brother in law has a Tessa Yeah. Yeah, too many in Denmark Madsen was I've already read that whole sentence. Born on January twelfth? Why do I always mark up the sentence before the birthday? So sorry, this episode is going to go for five hours. He was born on January twelve, nineteen seventy one.

Oh my god, that's like nine months before your birthday.

So what are you saying? Oh my god about what if I missed?

You?

Just be an idiot. Fuck, I'm gonna be here for three days. I need for someone to be His parents were Annie and Carl, and they lived in a small town just south of Copenhagen. Is it Copenhagen or Copenhagen I think, but I think like anglicized we.

Call it Copenhagenen.

Yeah, right, I'm going to call it that. Annie was more so Annie and Kyle were his parents. Annie was more than thirty years younger than Karl. Oh wow, okay, and she already had three sons from previous relationships.

Wow.

Boys, who Carl was allegedly abusive towards Oh my god, thirty more than thirty years age different time, Toby Maguire, spider Man. Yep, yep, he is allegedly dating someone who is thirty years younger than him and one year older than his daughter.

Oh that's crazy, that's crazy.

He started dating a twenty year old Marita and literally just told you. When Peter was six, Annie left Carl and took her children with her. A few years later. Peter did return to live with his father, however, and the two of them shared a powerful bond. They were both obsessed with rockets, sure so that his early years were a little bit tumultuous. Yes, yeah, yeah, there was.

Just go with tumultuous. I like what you said as wrongs.

In high school, Peter's fascination with rockets and engineering was really encouraged by his chemistry and physics teacher, and by the age of just fifteen, he had built his first rocket fifteen, Yeah, a one meter tour creation. You have anything to say about size of that? I'm happy with that? Yeah, fun, okay, fuck that shot one hundred meters into the air before crashing back down. It didn't matter.

He was hooked. Yeah, yeah, and I'll say yeah. It just realized I don't have any idea of size of rockets or care about that, but I really care about size ands.

Apparently, when Peter was nineteen, his father died, and Peter threw himself even deeper into their shared obsession. It was kind of like, I don't have my dad to do this with anymore. So I'm going to do it even harder like this now for both of us.

Yeah right.

He joined the Danish Amateur Rocket Club. Sure he didn't quite fit in imagine not fitting into amateur pretty weird. While he studied, studied welding, refrigeration, mechanics, engineering, anything that he could that would help him build the machines that he imagined he wanted to build.

Even study refrigeration, yes, okay, kitchen, kitchen.

Yes, he didn't actually have a formal engineering degree. He would study engineer and study all around that, and members of this Danish amateur rocket club found him difficult. His enthusiasm was certainly there, but so was his ego. I'm literally I've just realized in my head i am picturing yeah.

Absolutely.

Conflict seemed to follow Peter Elon wherever he went. In the early two thousands, he shifted his attention under.

Water, okay, under the see.

At the Copenhagen Port, he built three submarines. They were called, Now this is so weird. The three names were Frayer, Cracker, and the u See. Three nautialists.

That's really funny. That's funny on him. If you knew he was going to make three and call one.

Just like a lady's name. Ye, cracker. I don't know what that means.

No, that must be like turn your phone on silent.

That's what messag Why is she messaging you so much?

Right?

The you see three Nautialists was famously or those feet long. Wait wait, okay, I think I should have edited this better. I think that there has been a typo in this. So when earlier I said eighteen feet long, it was actually fifty eight feet.

That's quite that's quite different six feet wide. So I think I was right to have my I really thought.

And I'm going there's all different sides.

It's not that small. No, fifty eight not to believe anymore at all. Okay, so that's a normal size maybe a normal size.

Yeah, okay, No, you know when I said they can be small, I was thinking of that. You know the Titanic submersible. Oh I went down. Yeah, that's that's like kind.

Of a little yeah.

Yeah, but maybe that's why they called it submersible, not a submarine.

Yeah, okay, so it's a normal size submarine.

Guys, I've done normal research for this, and as well as well it was you love this line. Sorry, snorted, you love this line after that whole discussion about how small. So the Nautilus was fifty eight feet long, six feet wide and the largest privately built submarine in the world.

Here I was believe you think five meters like.

Five and a half. I said, like, that's twice this couch.

It was the one I guess, and you're going, come on, there can be all different sizes. It was the love of love. You can't just say it's twice his couch and I go, oh, I guess. I've got the cookies and coffee. Don't worry about it. From twice my couch.

It was the largest okay, privately submarine in the world at the time.

Peter had lived in Yeah, okay, definitely more than twice my couch.

But even though he lived in the submarine under the scene, his real first love was rockets, and in two thousand and eight he had co founded Copenhagen Suborbitals with an ar connect named Christian. Their mission was to build a crowd funded rocket and send Peter into space.

Crazy crazy Is it a crowd crowd fund of rocks and then go in it? Yeah? Well, Katy Perry, get over it.

Get over it. For six years. The partnership between Christian van Bengston and Peter Manson worked until it didn't. Peter hated the idea of anyone acting like his boss, and tensions rose between them again sounds like Elon Muskin does, it really does, and the relationship really soured. Eventually Peter walked out and he took several workers with him.

Sure, okay.

Then in twenty fourteen, so that was two thousand and eight they started that. In twenty fourteen he launched his own rival company. Oh my god, yeah, RML space Lab rocket Madson. That's from before Rocketman, Spacelan, Spacelab, Spaceland, Oh my god. His goal for RML space Lab was to beat Copenhagen suborterbles and sub orbitals to a successful rocket launch. This became a personal Yeah.

He's obsessed with that.

Two stupid rich men were not stupid, I mean quite learned.

Well, built a submarine over five meters and so they're quite quite smart.

Smart smart, I mean just like you know, stupid in that they made their life mission to just beat the other person in crowd funding spaceship to.

But you look at the wealth, like the amount, so like people who are crowdfunding a rocket or a submarine. They are wealthy, elite people like that's why to have that amount of money to go because it's not a charity.

You know, it's exactly I was going to say, spend it on something else. Exactly, something else, many other things. Stop putting people into space for not.

To be there.

We don't have to be there. And I know, well I don't know, but I assume and believe there must be reasons we send people into space more than just to show that we can.

Yep, As my granddad said when I was going to go overseas for the first time, there's bits of jum Bunner you ain't seen yet. What's John Banner is the smallest little town, not even a town. It's one road outside of current Borough.

And so he was saying, why would you.

Why would you bother going over to London where I saw this one offul musical book a woman. He said, there's bits of jum Bunny you ain't even seen yet. Oh he's a current Borough man, And he said, no, there's bits of jum Bunny ain't seen yet.

Why did you bother going to London? We've got London at home. Yea, Jim Banna.

Yeah, my dad goes to the airport sometimes and just sits there and goes. You just see where everyone's going. They're all going different places. You can see the world. Why would you go anywhere when the world comes to you? What?

He sits at the airport to watch people. Yeah, he travels from Philip Island to.

If you want to go one time and said, do you want to come and see at the airport? What so you can watch everyone for what We'll see where everyone's going. He likes to guess where people are going.

Oh my god, his heart is too pure. I cannot but yeah.

But so that's that's quite an elite thing to be. Like the amount of money I would take in in one city even fuel the rocket.

In Copenhagen alone, there are two rival companies both making private rockets just to because they can.

I guess that's nuts.

By twenty seventeen, Peter had scheduled a test launch, but financial problems, as we said earlier, forced that to be canceled and a five submarine half. Financial problems stopped the launch from going ahead, and the setback really bruised his ego. So when journalists Kim Waull had reached out again, saying I'd like to interview you. He said yes, and he offered her something irresistible. On that very day that he

Of course, so big really it was. So she knew she was going to go down on the ride, but probably didn't.

Know how long.

Well, yes, but no, she'd said it was an hour interview. She was going to be there for an hour and then come back to the party afterwards. And after an hour she had messaged all saying still alive, I'm going down Like so it was.

Kind of a.

Like have a little like you know what it's like, cookie has coffee. Yes. By ten pm on the night of the interview, something didn't feel right to all. The going away party that Kim was supposed to return to after a quick one hour trip on the Nautilus was starting to wind down. The harbor was dark, and Kim still hadn't returned home to the party, and she was only meant to be gone for gone totally for two hours max. For interview is an hour, Maybe there'll be

And probably think at that point there's been a terrible accident.

Got of course they're underwater and no one's seen them again.

Horrible.

As the sun rose over Copenhagen that morning, there was still no sign of Kim, Peter nor the submarine helicopters were sweeping the bay and the Coastguard boats traced the coastline. Kim's parents were alerted, and by morning Danish media had picked up the story. Had the homemade submarines sunk? Had something gone terribly wrong underwater? No one knew, No one

Oh okay. Peter spoke to.

The lighthouse over the radio. He was calm and casual, as if nothing was wrong. We're fine, he said, before telling them that he was heading back to the harbor then and there. But thirty minutes later, a fishing boat spotted the submarine in Kyrger Bay, away from the dock.

Oh okay, right.

A fisherman reported seeing Peter pop out of the hatch wave and then did appear back down inside. So this is like a typical looking submarine, right the bit the pops out the top of the water and that's all you can see, and the submarin itself is out, so he had said. Authorities from like the lighthouses spotted they've obviously put out like a we're looking.

For this show you were searching for it.

Yeah, the light. Some people in the lighthouse have gone, yes, it is here. Authorities have been able to make radio contact with him. Knowing where the location was. He's gone, yeah, we're all good, heading back now, don't worry about it. Then half an hour later he pops out the top. Someone in a kerga bay sees him. He waves and pops back down in. Then moments later the nautilus began

Oh my god, what a sign.

Like this guy's popped up from submarine, wavedlight and then it's sinking and he just comes out and swims over to you.

Wow.

The fisherman took Peter aboard and brought him to shore, which was just four miles away. Reporters had swarmed the dock by this point were waiting with cameras rolling and microphone outstretched. In the footage of Peter climbing up onto the dock, like from getting out from this fisherman's boat. He gives a thumbs up to the camera. He said he was really upset the submarine had sunk, but that's all he said. Made no mention of where the submarine was,

Wow.

He insisted that Kim was fine and he insists to police, because they were anyones that said anything about it. Again, he hadn't said anything to media, insisted that she was fine, that he had dropped her off safely on the coastline where she lived, of refshelun.

So he went back to where the party kind of you could see it from, dropped her off and then went back up by fine.

Yeah, I went out, and that's when the ballanced things malfunctioned. Investigators were able to rule that theory out almost immediately. The area was blanketed with like CCTV, and when they pulled all of the footage, that showed exactly what they needed to know that no one had ever been dropped off that night, at least of book Kim. There was no sign of her anywhere, and the holes in Peter's story were beginning to show on August twelve, So the

Died in an accident and waited.

Before he was like in front of the judge who was kind of changing him with wow, say, okay, okay, I admit she died, but it was an accident. According to this new version of events, Peter that he claimed that the one hundred and fifty pound hatch of like that you pop up on the top of submarine had come loose and had struck Kim on the head while

A few hours to sleep, adrenaline would hit and you wouldn't be able.

Oh my god, I'm so upset to find this woman dead. I'd better sleep for a few hours. This fucking guy. On waking from his slumber, Peter says he made the decision to bury him out at sea, so he's left her dead in a pool of her blood and slept for a few hours.

To get her out.

Investigators immediately questioned this logic. The Nautilus wasn't in the middle of the ocean. It was in cell phone range of Copenhagen, in a really busy shipping channel. Why hadn't he serviced immediately.

And called for help accident?

His story just simply didn't add up. So the police changed him then and there with involuntary manslaughter, which is interesting to me. Why involuntary. I guess they were believing made that he'd well, they weren't because they were like.

I guess if they're saying that, and.

Maybe they believed that the thing hit her on the head. The fact that he didn't need immediately call authorities is what made it like more.

That's really strange.

Yeah, but that was the initial change they gave him while they continued to gather evidence and try to work out what had actually happened. Yeah, okay, they knew he wasn't telling the full truth. They just needed time to prove it and work out what the truth actually was. Wow, on August thirteen. So the following day again divers recovered the sunken nautilus and towed it ashore. Much of the physical evidence had been washed away by the seawater.

Oh wow.

I don't know why they waited that long term, but the mechanics of the summarine were able to tell a clear story. There was nothing wrong with the holderless at all. Oh my god, there had been no malfunction. The sinking was very intentional, and investigators now knew whatever had happened to kim Wall, Peter was hiding it. Dunt dunt du dun dun dum. In the days after the Nautilus say, investigators worked around the clock searching for any sign of kim Wall. Of course, so I mean it goes. It

Harger Hager Hager than ever, just.

Trying to get really into the Copenhagen Harbor and Kruger Bay. Even cadaver search dogs were brought in, which I've never like, how would they like in the water.

No, they're taking them. They brought the submarine back.

Yes, but like it had been in the water for I think it's interesting, like like bringing a dogs. I would think that the salt water and everything would.

Make it hard. Yeah, I thought you thought that they were making themselves swim.

Yes, get out with the fish. The fish. Period of time, there was still no sign of Kim. Then on August twenty one, Oh my god. Yeah, eleven days later after she disappeared birthday, Yes, good math, a cyclist riding along the beach several miles from where the naudialist had launched noticed something pale near the shoreline.

God.

On closer inspection, he realized it was a do you want to guess what it was?

Kim?

It was part of Kim.

My god.

It was a woman's torso, weighted down with pieces of metal, presumably to try to keep it submerged water.

Trying to think, oh my god, I didn't know. I've heard a little bit about this story. I didn't know that she was found. Yeah, wow, this.

Is this is really lucky.

I'm sorry.

There were no limbs nor head. Oh god, it was just a torso, and the condition of the remains made it immediately clear that some some serious violence had occurred. There were fifteen stab walls present, mainly in the groin area.

Oh my god.

The location was just south of Copenhagen, in the same bay where Peter had been rescued.

Wow.

Yeah, it's obviously dumped her in, Oh my god. But also like just oh, just dissecting her is just yeah, oh my god.

Yeah. Two days later, forensic testing confirmed that the remains did belong to Kim Wall. The torso painted a picture far beyond anything Peter had claimed. Absolutely, Here's claim of an accidental death by the hitting her on the head and a panicked burial at sea no longer aligned at all with the gruesome evidence at hand. Detectives pressed him over and over for hours and hours and days and days.

With the new evidence.

Yes, yeah, and he wasn't able to offer up anything that made any sense.

What.

September fifth, Madson appeared in court again, with police now requesting that he remained in custody while the investigation continued. So involuntary man slaughshup probably wouldn't usually justify like a custodial like a romand yes, but because it was like, we've only charged him with this while we work out

Wow.

They found a garbage bag containing a knife and Kim's clothes. Wow. They then found another God.

Would never imagine to find that ever.

Especially like two months later when they've been searching everything.

Wow.

Clearly Peter wasn't expecting you found it either. Then they found another garbage bag with a leg, then another bag with the other leg, and then you can imagine other bags with the rest of the rest of Kim was found, and they had all been carefully contained and weighted down. Forensic experts examined the skull and ruled that there were no signs of head injury, and like, so, first of all, they were like, the cause of death wasn't a head injury, but also Peter had said she was hit on the

Wow.

Right, this is my favorite part of this story. Favorite sounds is the wrong work story, but I feel like this is the part that you'll remember, because this part of this story makes the whole thing sound like it's made up for a television movie.

Yes, because.

All the while, while Peter was building his rockets and his submarines and all of this was going on in real time, the guy who liked attention was being filmed. At the time of Kim's disappearance, an Australian filmmaker named Emma Sullivan had been documenting Peter and his team at RML Space Lab for a documentary.

Yes, I do remember this, yep.

Months earlier.

He's like a Bond villain, isn't he. Yes, Yeah, he loves the attention loves Yeah.

He was having a documentary made about him.

Probably commissioned by him as well.

Crow crowdsourced Confunded, where he has taken a reporter onto his submarine and so far in the story you don't know what's happened, but she's been killed. He's lied about it that we know for sure. They're making of his being anyway, Seventeen months earlier, this filmmaker Emma do you know? Do you know? Emma Sullivan, which to a journalist called Emma O'Sullivan that her imagine was like friends with her at work that she was by.

I'm going to love to see if she hasn't made any comment about all this as well.

Yeah, she had watched a ted talk that Peter Madsen had delivered. Of course he had. It's just he's so ill a musk, and she was fascinated by his dream of launching himself into space in a homemade lockw. Crockett. Of course, so Emma Sullivan reached out to him via email in hopes of capturing the journey and making a documentary. He of course agreed and warned in an email reply, Emma, you were about to submerge into quite a snake pit, okay, and how like?

Yeah.

When Kim ordered the Nautilus on August ten, Emma and her crew were already deep into filming and making this documentary. The cameras had been rolling for months, capturing Peter's quirks, his temper, his temper, his unpredictable mood swings, and the unwavering admiration of the volunteers who all worked unto him.

So they just loved him so much. Yes, I couldn't believe it to work with this guy. Get voluntary.

Yeah, for him, we get to work for him for no money so he can make this narcissistic little man ego rocket ship to launch himself off into space, just so people will know his name and he can feel like he has a bigger dick wow. On camera, his staff spoke about him like he was a true genius. Some had joined the lab purely for the chance to work with him, and Peter thrived on the attention and the idea of being the center of a grand narrative,

Of course, and then as someone who's making this, you'd start to go, did I see he signs? With their footage I could bring up to actually go, well I saw him snap there or something.

Yeah.

They had really admired him. They robby knew he like. They didn't like his temper and his mood swings stuff centric, eccentric.

So I think that.

Word eccentric is never a compliment.

There never is, and it means a lot of different things.

It means this guy's a bit of a dick live wi.

Yeah.

They were now being confronted with the possibility that the man they had idolized and were choosing to put on the screen. And they're looking at all the staff of these people that really idolized him could be capable of hiding someone's death.

Yes.

As the investigation progressed and new evidence emerged, the documentary captured the staff's slow recording as they began to reflect on their own relationships with Peter.

Wow.

So the document like the film crew actually have.

Yes's been released all right, okay, ye.

Captured the reactions of Peter's staff and his underlings. The cameras caught their reactions to them watching the news, watching the breaking news that he had been charged, and then kind of kept filming over the coming days and weeks, and then kind of coming to terms with maybe like switching out of their like whatever their minds had thought before, and kind of going hang on, like everything becoming a bit clearer. Wow at what would inevitably end up being

Wow, this is available? Is it somewhere like that?

Yeah?

It was. I watched a new.

Okay, right, I need to watch it.

It was all there, recorded before anyone realized they were documenting the prelude.

To a crime. Wow.

So let's talk more about who Peter was. Among his loyal circle of volunteers, there was one woman, an in turn whose identity has remained to protect it. We'll call her Kate. Throughout the documentary, Kate appears as one of his most devoted admirers, but as the evidence against him begins to pile up, Kate finds herself scrolling back through old text messages with Peter. Exchanges she had once brushed off as his dark humor suddenly in this new light

Wow. This is the day that she was Kim was born, so that the day after he was like, let's go on trip soon.

He's the day she was boarding. He sent a message to Kate saying, let's go out tomorrow. In another interview, Kate revealed a series of earlier messages she had received from Peter. At the time, she had joked that she should send her threat what she called quote threatening texts to mote her sorry. She had joked that Peter should send her threatening texts to motivate her to work. This is how Peter replied, You must be bound in Nautilus. I bind you to pierce you with a skewer. Then

He's sending this to his intern yes, and then saying, you know before saying we should go out together, and he's going he's saying he's got a murder plan.

Yes, she has said.

She's a sexual kink that she was thinking at the time, what was his maybe bit a bondage.

Or yeah, well yeah, because he stanced with saying like he must be bound. Yes, she had said to him like, oh, I need to be motivated to work. You should threaten me so I'll have to work. Ha ha ha, Like it's a wo wave jokey. Sure, you'll need to threaten me so I have to work, and he goes, okay, I'll bind you in the nautilus. I'll kill you. I've got a murder plan. I'm going to slit your throat.

Oh my god.

So on reflection, when Kate looked back at these messages, she would later on go to say, it became more and more obvious that I think it was meant to be me on that sub I was supposed to ride with him the very next day.

Wow.

But remember so he said, hey, August eleven, let's go out on the submarine. But Kim wall on August ten had send him another hail Mary email, Hey Megan, don't if you've been getting my other emails and he's gone, yeah, okay, come on board tonight.

Ah.

I forgot it was that quick in the turnaround, because she had been emailing her.

For months and she had sent an email on the tenth and he had written back and said, yeah, okay, come on board tonight.

Oh my god, that's so damning. I mean that that message in itself is so awful that you can't take that in any other way, like that's not all.

And this Kate says that she didn't take it as she was because she who was saying as a joke. And look, I don't know why her identity is protected it. I think it means either she was underage or there was some kind of sexual charges about that, so her identity is protected for that. So either or both of those things could show why, you know, the kind of relationship they might have had over messages, and like you said,

Yeah, there's a lot more serious, And I was thinking yeah.

Then investigators uncovered something else that changed the trajectory of the case entirely.

Wow.

When police seized Peter's computer from his workshop, they found that this is really awful, big, big trigger warning here. They found a hard drive containing more than one hundred videos depicting extreme violence against women.

Oh my god.

They weren't fictional fantasy films.

They were real home video disgusting.

Former colleagues recalled Peter asking whether they had ever watched something called a snuff film. Oh wow, conversations that they had brushed off as like weirdo and he's just got her. If you guys ever watched this and they're like, oh.

My god, s word eccentric again.

Yeah, But the most chilling detail came from Peter's own digital footprint. On the morning of August ten, at eight thirty two am, investigators discovered that Peter Madsen had searched the terms girl, agony and beheading. Oh my god, and those three words together had led to a video which he had clicked on and watched of an unidentified young woman who was having her throat cut.

Oh my god.

Piece by piece, a digital history that contradicted every explanation Peter had offered came to light. Kim Wall may not have been the first woman he'd imagined harming. She was just, unfortunately, the first who crossed his path at the wrong moment. Peter was charged with murder. By the time he went to trial, he was also charged with aggravated assault and the desecration of a corpse.

Oh that's discussed, isn't it.

I actually, I'm really glad there is a charge for that. Yeah, because it's like, yes, murder is a charge in itself, but then to like to chop up someone's body, is that's a crime in itself?

Well?

Absolutely, Ow what do you do there?

I just put my elbow down really hard against the chair from the opposite of His trial began on March eight, twenty eighteen, so really soon after rearly soon, and because the case had become, i mean, unsurprisingly one of the most publicized in Danish history. But like across the world, Peter requested a smaller panel, not a jury trial, like

Oh right, okay, because it's such a big trial at the time.

But I feel like there's a reason twelve is the normal exactly, Yeah, because there's like a big cross section of society.

Two was a bit insane. Yeah, it might look to talk to ye and the.

Judge though, So in a normal Yeah, in a normal jury trial, it's only the twelve jurors who get to decide a verdict. In this kind of trial that they were asking for, it would be the judge and two jurors who would decide together.

Yeah. Sure.

The defense's goal was simple, convinced the court that Kimmel's death was not premeditated, right, So they kind of had to come around and go, we found a body chopped up. We'relied in the first place, but this was not planned.

Yeah, it's a terrible accident. And it's also insane because the terrible accident was like, well, there's no trauma to the head, so how was how are you going to explain this as an excerent and why did you chop her up afterwards, and why were there.

Fifteen stab wounds? Remember, Yeah, Peter took to the stand in his own defense, which, interestingly, now I don't know if they're I mean, there would be.

Stating this is charming and everything, isn't it.

Yeah, yeah, I don't know the stats about this, but in all of the stories you and I have covered to date, the only people that have taken the stand in their own defense, from my memory, have been the ones who have been leading.

Yes, yeah, absolutely, yeah, and.

Egotistical and arcissistic and thought that they're smarter and they can easily get away with it.

Yeah.

From the moment he began speaking on the stand, it was clear that he loved the spectacle that this was, and he loved that the hundreds of reporters filling the gallery every day were there to see hear him.

The reporters still allowed, and even though it was a smaller thing that was over.

Yeah, yeah, so it's still open court. There's always reporters a lot. Up until then, Peter had claimed that Kim died when the hatch fell on her head, but now standing before the court for the very first time, he revealed a third version of events. He explained that while the submarine was still on the surface, he stepped out

Yeah, I use the term budge. Get to the point.

When asked about the violent condition of Kim's remains, he had no explanation. Eventually, on cross examination, he did admit to dismembering her body, offering a chillingly clinical reason for why. He said, for batim, this is when you have a big problem, you have to divide it into something smaller.

How awful?

Isn't that sick?

Yeah it's a click, but and please.

Pardon the accidental pun. Here, Piece by piece, the prosecution dismantled his story.

Yeah.

Sure.

A submarine expert from the Danish Navy testified the tests on the Nautis showed no trace of carbon monoxide. He just thinks he's so much smarter than he can say, Well, it's my submarine.

I know how.

You don't know how submarines work.

I do.

I'm telling you this happened. They're obviously going to bring in an experts.

Exactly, but they've also shown that there was no malfunction at all. So it's like obviously while.

He came up with the carbon monoxide there because it's a gas. So there's no way you could have seen that happened. There was gas all in the chamber somehow. In his psychiatric assessment, the psychologist ruled that Peter showed no remorse for the murder, no empathy, and no concern at any point for Kim's family.

Oh he's a psychopath, yeah, oh yeah, discussed Yeah.

Proper psychopath behavior experts described him as a pathological liar with narcissistic.

And sociopathic psychopathic traite pathic traits.

More than ten interns and volunteers from RML Space Lab witnesses testified against Peter.

Wow.

So it's like their leader had kind of fallen and their eyes opened to everything. They were able to step outside and see and they realized everything.

Wow.

When it came to his hard drive and the snuff films, Peter insisted the violent videos were no more incriminating than watching a Hollywood film such as quote kill Bill.

What, there's no difference. There's no more violence.

It's no different.

You watch people You've got to kill Bill. You've seen people being killed on camera before.

Wow, he's actually actively searching this, and he's saying this.

Actively searching it. And they're not Hollywood movies. No, they're not fiction films. These are actuble films of someone actually being killed. The court disagreed the jury was required to review some of the material like.

That, something they should never have to do.

One video was so disturbing that they only played the audio to the jury, so they didn't even make the jury watch it. They just said you can just hear.

It's horrible.

Even Peter's wife, who stood by him initially, was excused from testifying due to emotional distress.

Yeah.

In his closing statement, Peter said only these words, I'm very very sorry for what has happened. M what a pig like the wording of that, for what has.

Happened, Yeah, taking no ownership over anything.

On April twenty fifth, twenty eighteen, the verdict was delivered. The court found Peter Madsen had failed to provide any credible explanation for Kim Wall's death. He was found guilty on all charges and sentenced to life imprisonment, the harshest penalty in Denmark. When the sentence was read out at once, Cocky believed to be untouchable Peter Madsen slumped over the

Yes, this was one of those. You say that, you know that, OJ Simptons, that was huge.

After the verdict was delivered, a court represented stepped forward to address the crowd, which I mean that doesn't happen in Australia. I don't know if that's normal for Denmark. But someone who worked for the court came out to like give a statement. Wow, they said Kim Wall was an innocent victim. This wasn't the premeditated killing of Kim Wall. This was the premeditated killing of the next woman who

Yeah.

The UC three Nautilus was destroyed, and Peter Madson remains in prison surfing a life serving not surfing. I don't think he gets to serve, serving a life sentence for the murder of Kim Wall. But it doesn't finish there. For all the disturbing digital evidence, the search history, the messages, the videos, the real smoking gun came from somewhere no one expected.

Can you get the documentary filmmaker.

Emma Sullivan's documentary On August tenth, twenty seventeen, Emma's cameras captured staff discussing the tools hanging in Peter Madson's workshop. Oh, in the background, clearly visible was a wooden saw with a bright orange handle. The next day, as the search for the Nautilus began, the sawce was gone.

Of course, that is awful, but also fucking awesome in terms of the yeah they were doing.

They were making a documentary about him. They're filming him and his staff at his workshop every day. That very day they had filmed the workshop and they had been discussing the tools hanging up on the wall, and then the fucking idiot murderer has gone and taken a saw off the wall, taking it out. And the very next day they're looking for a body. Wow, that turns up cut up.

Wow.

Witnesses later saw recalled seeing Peter carrying a large saw with an orange handle in the lab. One staff member even remembered it sticking out of his backpack on that very day of August tenth, and this was part of the testimony they gave a try. Then, divers searching Copenhagen Harbor found an orange handle saw on the ocean floor, lying among Kimmel's belongings and those garbage bags of her remains they recovered from Wow, like he's not He hasn't

Oh no, we had a break for lunch.

On October twentieth, twenty twenty, Peter Madson escaped from prison.

What oh of course, my god.

With access to the prison wood shop, Peter carved a fake gun out of wood, held a prison psychiatrist hostage with.

A fake wooden gun, and walked out of the main gate. He is a bond villain, yees.

Yeah, but he didn't make it far, Sammy. Less than a mile from prison, police found him hiding in a van and like, just like a mile from a mile from prison. When officers approached, Peter lifted his shirt to reveal what looked like an explosive device strapped around his stomach. Officers backed off, surrounding him at a distance as he sat in the grass, a bomb disposal robot was deployed. You know, you've seen footage of them like that, like robots going yeah, to like not disengage.

What's the word for, like, oh sometimes that Yeah, yeah, I think they actually test to see first if it's like an actual.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the word I'm thinking of.

I don't know, but yeah, I know what you mean.

It's what's going to annoy me.

The word for like making a bomb like not happen, stop it.

I can't remember what is. Yeah.

Anyway, an hour after this bomb disposal robot had been working on it, they discovered that it was all a ruse. The bomb was fake and had also been crafted in the wood shop. Oh my god, which I mean it's easier to detay, no, but not the other way. The other thing is when it goes off, yes, oh my god, constructs.

That's crazy with the gun and the gun and the fake explosive device.

Yeah, I think it could be easy to say, like, oh my god, how embarrassing. How can you not tell that that was a wooden bomb? But you, I mean, you're going to take every precaution if someone's wearing what looks like it could be a bomb. It's better to take an hour looking at it and then go, oh, well, it's embarrassing. It was wood. Yes, Peter Madsen was taken back into custody and twenty one months were added to his life sentence. So it must it must be a

Wow.

Her parents also published a book about her life called A Silenced Voice, which was a tribute to their daughter and her work. This is a quote from her mum, Ingrid through her fund, Kim will do what children are supposed to do, outlive their parents.

Oh my god, Well that's so heartbreaking.

If you would like to explore Kim's reporting, her family maintains a digital archive at Remembering kimwall dot com. And that is the tragic, fucking wild story of Kim All the submarine murder story.

Oh, it's so so we're both so crying at the inn again, it's so sad. It's so sad, like such a young person that sadly got on a submarine.

I actually think her age doesn't matter. If that was a ninety five year old that was an innocent person. You got on a submarine to tell somebody's story, Yeah, and was brutally murdered for no reason.

Yeah, it's so heartbreaking. And this monster that was out there just waiting for the person that got on like that is just awful. And he must have had intent, obviously had intent, but for him to go through with that, I do wonder what happened in that submarine, Like, yeah, you know, so awful to imagine what actually happened in that submarine.

And because that with the films that he'd been watching, like it's you know, they often involve like torture, and yeah, it's it's a a kink, be that sexual or otherwise. It's a kink to take someone's life and watch someone's life being taken. Yeah, he's just decided on that day whenever the next opportunity was Like he'd messaged the intern saying, I want to come out on the submarine with me tomorrow, and she'd said yes. But then opportunity came knocking the day before, the night before, and.

He thought he was so untouchable. That's the other thing as well, Like I thought he was so untouchable. He could get away with this because he's so smart and.

So much smarter than everyone else.

I can do this.

Why do I need to think about it? Why would I need to dump the saw in a different place to her body parts?

Not awful?

What would I need to Why would I need to say when I recovered, When I'm pulled ashore by a fishing and the media is waiting for me. Why would I need to say, oh, you're also the woman that was on board with me, something happened to it. Why would I need to bring her up? No one cares about her. She's a fucking reported No one cares about her.

Insane like that. Yeah, and also like that, you know the filmmaker, Emma, Emma Sullivant. Yeah, incredible, look now that the footage and also look up the word for the opposite of destinating.

Yeah.

But yeah, but like for her as well to actually be part of the conviction, Yes, that is exactly that she went out and obviously like when they were thinking he was this what he wanted to be kind of this godlike figure that was just this incredible, eccentric person. Then for her to actually be the person that was following him and have all of this footage, that's bizarre. Emma Sullivan, I need to say this on YouTube dot com.

This is it's actually it says here. It's on Netflix.

Okay, great, I need to watch on It's called.

The documentary is called Into the Deep, Into the Deep. Okay, It's on Netflix. It's a Netflix documentary. So maybe I didn't watch it on YouTube.

You made the whole thing up.

Happened principal partner for I'm a Different Thing. I was like, Oh, I think she's Victorian, but I don't know if that's actually real. I mean searching her name and documentary, it's only into the deep that I don't know if she's done any other documentaries'.

Find I want to please, yeah, please, if you don't tell us if you know, if you.

Know Emma, or if you know anything about always right, we.

Especially Emma, Memma, Emma member. Actually if you're listening as well, please.

Do Emma memo. If you're listening, Yeah, I'm not finding I've just gone you know when you go to like the second page of the Google search and start going wrong. As I was about to say, I'm not finding anything else on her. So I think that's only one she's done. There is a Facebook like a it's an article, but on Facebook that says nineteen year old Emma Sullivan stepped on a rusty nail and died on June ten, nineteen nine. So I think that might be a different Emison.

Maybe, but whybe we should investigate that one as well.

Stepped in a rusty al on her wedding day and died.

Oh my god, it's talking about this. Please, I'm going to look into ms Sullivan, which the text one or the documentary the documentary?

Look into the technis one.

Okay, uh yeah, that's a fascinating, fascinating case. Because i'd heard bits and pieces of it, I haven't seen a documentary. I'm surprised you haven't said, yeah, that's fascinating because he just seems like an evil madman. Yes, and just you know, a psychopath. But like, that's so fascinating that that happened not that long ago, the absolute.

Like audacity and cockiness of someone to there's a fucking documentary being made about him. There are people filming everything you do, and you decide that's a good time to go on murder. Yeah, I'm not condoning murder outside of a documentary being made about yourself either. My advice heartedly and you can quote me on that is, you shouldn't murder anyone ever, ever, way, not just you Sammy one.

Okay, ever, yes, correct, Ever, if.

You are going to which you shouldn't, if you'd like to get away with it, which you shouldn't, you should you shouldn't be doing it when a documentary this feeling, fiel me.

Yeah, and I've learned so much about this. I mean I've learned that submarines can be minimum five meters long. Yes, I've learnt that rockets are big. Yes, No, be crowdfunded and people will actually send someone into space a homemade rocket. That is insane to me. Yes, yeah, if you have enough.

Money to be or you know what, even if you don't have that much money. But you think I'm going to donate to this crowdfunding page for this man to make a rocket to make him feel like he's got a bigger dick by launching into space and having articles written about him. If you think about donating money to that, please instead donate money to us. You can send a direct bank transfer. You can email Sammy just another company to com dot you and he will give you our bank account details.

Absolutely I will. But also like, tell us why you're sending people into space? I want to know that. What's that for?

No, he just wanted to go. I made a rocket and I've got into space, same as the fucking Katy Perry and Gails. You just made that up. Why do you say weathers?

What's what's Oprah's long terms?

That one king, isn't it goal keep?

She was the one that went up in the rocket. You didn't look up? What the goddamn well?

What am I going to google? What is the word when the word for a bomb?

Disarm?

Disabled? Disarmed?

I look, we're going to go to the mail bags. G love of the podcast because our favorite section when we hear from you. If you want to write in, you can write in Sammy at just Another Company dot com dot au. You can also leave us a voicemail defuse diffuse. There you go. The link is below if you want to send us a speak pipe as well, and you can.

Follow us on Instagram at not Another Crime Podcast. You can follow us on TikTok at Not Another Crime Podcast. We are working on becoming TikTok BookTalk Stars, right, and by we're working on, I mean we've not done anything about books sometimes on this podcast and saying that we'd like to be TikTok BookTalk Stars.

Especially TikTok stars, to get this podcast out there to as many people as possible. She love, Are you ready for this? We've got some lovely lovely Would you let him in? Would you let him in? Pretty please? Diggs because his birthday is now seven years old. He has become real chatty since he's become seven years old. And I love it, Diggs. I think something really beautiful about it, especially a rescue dog that suddenly, you know, is a little bit cheeky. I know, it's so cute. Voice like Ariel,

Gee?

Love This one comes from Nicole. Hi, Sammy and George are just cracked up laughing at a Booking Dot Com ad. I don't pay for YouTube, don't be ridiculous. While I was watching Sammy Special as a way to wind down after going down an Epstein file rabbit hole. God, anyway, the muppets are on the beach. Animal flicks a bunch of sand on this piggy and she books herself into a five star hotel.

Oh my god.

I don't know if you get to choose your ads, but that was excellent. After the anecdote from the other day about the Ibiza trick, I knew it. Keep up the great podcast. It's one of the joys of my week.

Oh that's amazing. That's so funny because even if we weren't picks in the ads, she said, that that was now during your comedy special, not during our episode. I mentioned that that's great for did I tell you? I watched your post on Instagram? So I watched your Yeah, but I watched your special night at home with a glass of wine and with pords.

How Now I loved we loved ports laughing.

Yes, was laughing. If you guys don't know what we're talking about, or even if you do, I'm still gonna remind you. This is Sammy's one hour stand up comedy special, but it's available on YouTube called Why the Long Face. It's brilliant work.

God, thank you so much, and I will say as well. So we got a real funny call in one of the podcasts from Meg Jaeger the other week, and it was talking about the Yeah, talking about the Epstein files and a lady message on Instagram or to say this real quickly. Lady mentioned Instagram and said you do not joke about this, blah blah blah. And I wanted to write back, but I didn't. I save myself from running back. But I was like, the joke wasn't about the Epstein

Joke was that she had called in the middle of the podcast and you said, do you need to talk me about it? Is it urgent or about later? And she joked that your name had been mentioned in Epstein.

It's not to do with the victims or anything, so it's not And I didn't write back to it. I was just like, whatever, I'll talk about it now. This comes on Instagram. Hey guys, love listening to you and enjoyed the pod, but I think it stopped short of engaging with the most serious critiques of the case. This is about Lucy let be.

I you know what before you said that, I was going to say, is this about the loose yes one.

Much of the prosecution's case rests on Shoe Lee's work in embolism in neonates, but that had been misinterpreted by Juwey lewis something Lee himself had made clear. Lee also has over four hundred peer reviewed works in his field, and the panel of fourteen international senior neo is quite simply the best you could find anywhere. In the world. Their methodology was unusually rigorous. Experts were paired, worked independently on some cases and were required to reach the same

Wasn't there, That's the only thing I'm gonna say. Yeah, but there was hundreds, weren't they.

I don't know how many there were, but there were a lot under her bed.

Yeah.

The notes presented has similarities to Catherine Fohlbig, where excerpts were presented but not the entries as a whole. The only real evidence ever presented was that she was on shift every time, but as we know from other cases, just because someone was there doesn't mean they did it. Would love your thoughts now. I have been really interested by this because it is such a difficult case. Like it is so difficult because there are, of course two

And also I think we were extra careful with that one because while it is not still before the court. She's been found guilty and convicted. The fact that this panel of independent experts has come forward, yes, kind of asking for it to be re examined. We were just we've just been very careful about that because there is a possibility that it may end up back before the

I cover both sides at the end by talking about the panel as well. The international panel. Yeah, like that was a big part of the story. Yeah, that's also in the documentary, like that, you know, it is a fact that that was that happened. But I think people are very skeptical of doctor Juey Lewis and their mode is why he only chose seventeen cases? Why did he choose those seventeen cases when there are a lot more.

One of those cases that a lot of people have become really like kind of obsessed with it, like really followed very closely, and will be the first to say we weren't. We're not to those people, we haven't followed it really really colostly. You investigated that for our episode.

Before the docco came out, so I'm really interested and also, like I was, you know, kind of shocked when the documentary came out that someone actually messaged our Instagram and said, oh my god, I couldn't believe that. My husband was like maybe she's innocent, like you know, and they were kind of had an argument about it, and I was like, great, this podcast is causing arguments, but.

All get divorced. Everyone's doing it. It's very chip for the twenty twenty.

We were just thinking, look, that is really interesting, but we thought it was really a good idea to raise the panel at the end as part of the story, but not going into whether or not we think what Juey lewis is this or Jewey louis and.

We don't know enough about the story.

You know.

That's what this podcast is as well. We're not doing a big I'm sure there are podcasts about Lucy let me. There are multi episodes and they go into thoughts and beliefs. We were giving you the fact as we know them. That's really must have an old bit of Jans on this side with a chat up the top about our week.

Correct, so sue me, don't see me, don't plays This comes from Hannah. You ready for this?

I see me and Georgia. This is us listener, Hannah. I'm gonna try to keep this short and sweet because I can yapp.

With the best of them, and want to make me want.

To yap at you because it makes me feel like I'm sitting down with best friends. Your podcast does, and so I love it. I just want to say it's quickly become one of my favorite podcasts, so.

Keep up the good work. And then I have three little things. One I know you all mentioned becoming book talk stock.

Take your book of staff.

You really want to be in with the book talk read. Fourth wing it's Roman.

It's amazing.

When people don't know traffic laws, Like if we pull up to a stop sign and they're in front of me, or they got there first, and they just look at me.

I'm like, why are you looking at me? Go and get on with our lives.

The order so we can carry yes, just.

Drives me crazy. And then third, I just wanted to say that Georgia I love. I've noticed in episodes you always like stop and google stuff, and I'm absolutely that friend in my friend group all right to stop and google.

Don't like it unknown.

I'm always like, we're googling it. Let's get the answer. Conversations support stopping the podcast for you for Google.

You'll like these wanted to chat with you.

Have a great day, Keep carrying on with a good podcast, Stay horrendous, stayd.

Can I say Hannah sent this that is one hundred and two speak pops number one. Yeah, amazing doing this, Hannah, you did it.

You did it, Lucky number one hundred and you win friendship.

You want to get it, Yeah, find it.

You if you find it, to buy it yourself by it and then thank us. I like get so excited when people tell us they're listening from oversizing it's so cool.

Well, maybe I should just skip ahead a tiny bit in our usual mail bag because we have someone who is an overseas listener, and you and I I haven't listened to this. I don't usually try and listen to them unless it's one that I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do that one. But but we have our great friend who's an overseas listener.

Hey, guys, what is bored? I am just a responding to the James Free In my opinion, the only truth that are creative, especially in a narrative format that's beholden too, is the emotional truth.

Really, I don't really.

Think he did anything wrong. Interesting another point I wanted to make, because you brought up separating the art from the artist. I think that's emotionally dishonest to even attempt to do that. Because a lot of these guys tell on themselves in their work. I mean, Lucy Ka Woody Allen, they both did a lot of telling on themselves before they got found out, and I think it gives you a more well rounded view of the human condition to acknowledge that and go into experience in the art. It's

Y'all, be good, be safe, y'all, y'all, be good, be safe is the best. But we love you. I think, I really, I really like that. That's a really good good point today is I love you know these kind of discussions.

I think so too. It's like it doesn't and we're always open to people saying actually I don't agree with that, Like it is really interesting. Also, the message we got on Instagram before that, I didn't see it from anonymous because they had a really funny Instagram name. It was like this is not it, but it was like chicken salt or something like that. I'm not going to say

To say that. It's such a It's a completely good and valid point, like how much can you really because the art has come from the artist exactly. Yeah.

I love getting Spotify comments as well. So I've got from Orville. This is it says, good morning, Georgia and Sammy writing from my studio on a drink morning in Scotland. I hope Scotland. As a multimedia artist working through the night, having you in my ears is like my own audible soap opera. I wasn't a true crime fan until I've found your show via the Claremont Murders. Obsessed with Derek

Oh my God.

Is the best. And also the Clemont Kells is a really interesting Clemont Killer is a really interesting story.

Love to that one.

This comes from.

Victoria or the person?

Is that the person? You wondered what compelled Dr Shue Lee to come out and contradict.

Doctor Dewey Lewis and Lucy let Be story.

Dr Evans used doctor Lee's research in his expert report. Doctor Lee read doctor Evans report and was dismayed at how his work had been misinterpreted. He's worried his research has been wrongly used to convict let Be. I think it's an important note that doctor Lee is the original writer Evans relied on. Doctor Lee is much more eminent than Dr Evans. And we've got this one that comes from Dean. I love this. I think it's different. If it's a complete fabrication. This is going back to the

You have remember exactly the conversation you had in the exact terms with someone even one year ago, so then that could be said, well, that's not factual. It didn't happen like that.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's so many different sides of that. Look, we're going to have one more speak pipe today.

Do you I think this is going to be the longest episode of all time, isn't it?

I don't think so. No, no, no, I don't think it's going to be the longest episode we've done, but I think it will be up there. Oh, we've about an hour and fifty five at the moment.

What about if I sang the whole score of Book of Mormon, I would like that.

But can we just go to a lovely voicemail because I think you're really going to like this one as well as we always love voicemails. I just love this one so much, and I think you are going to to.

Hi, guys, this is Bubba.

I left you guys a message by Instagram a couple of weeks ago. I stumbled across your podcast and was just so pleasantly just surprised. It was just so funny and so horrific.

And just love it, just love it.

I'm real big.

Crime alcoholic. I guess you to pologize and crime podcasts it doesn't matter how horrific they are.

I don't know.

It's just.

I don't know.

It's just something that I like listening to. It just intrigues me how people are in the world. But anyway, just keep up the great work. I'm still binge listening to catch up, but I am listening to you to your weekly shows.

So I just you guys make me laugh.

So it's just so funny.

I'm a jen Xa as well, so I am a grandma. And that's why that that's why I'm called Bubba Plish and Georgia. I have a daughter called Georgia.

Fantastic name.

I also have to let you know that my.

Sister Vanessa has two beautiful rag dolls. They are just awesome, honey, and they make me laugh.

Just thank you very much for just doing your shows.

I just love them.

I love you on Instagram before. And she's just such a beautiful person.

Hider Mabel and Honey as well.

And Georgia name is great and also like, okay, if you have a if you have a fascination with true crime, you've been listening to true crime for a while, you're a true crime Yeah, that's right, true crimesic and this is probably a different one to listen to if you've been listening to lots of true Thank you. We loved that voicemail. We love to hear your voice. I want to know if I pronounced drink right, drake morning.

How's it spelt?

Please?

It's d r E I see h. I believe maybe there's an e on the end of there, but it is. It's one of those beautiful Scottish words that I just don't Yeah, d R E I c h. Yeah, I really want to get I've just wanted to get it right because I was like, if I don't get that right, I'm upsetting all about Scottish listeners.

Yes, and you will Shrek, particularly Shrek and.

Also and also our beautiful friend Shinade. I've got for you to Well, can you please tell me your poor dry p for today?

I can.

I'm going to look it up because you're gonna.

Look it up.

Okay.

You know what you always do this and this about you Okay, okay, because you've written so many down.

Because when I have that, like when they pop into me to write them down. Yes, when people talk about having high cholesterol, but they just say I've got cholesterol. Yes, it's it's bizarrely yeah yeah arly comment. Oh I can't have butter anymore. I've got cholesterol. Yes, yeh, yep, we all have cholesterol.

Can I tell you one that my mum actually told me yes, so she said that she used to her poor dry peeve was that when I was a kid, I used to open up the fridge, look there's nothing there, and a moment later, I back should magically change used to go. That was so frustrating that he's gone back the free change Yeah, that's a good one. Thanks to real you Geldine for that bloody love, that g love. It's been a goddamn pleasure to be with you today. Thank you for that amazing story.

Thank you to Taylor so much, Taylor Richards the best.

Thank you to Oliver Clark for doing the music. Thank you to James and Hayes for doing the artwork.

Thank you to you listeners for following us on Instagram and TikTok and Not Another Crime Podcast. Thank you for watching us on YouTube about Not Another Crime Podcast. Thank you Sammy Peterson for being the best goddamn friend of my favorite person in the world.

Thank you for sharing this podcast with your nearest and tourist friend so much that as well.

Say thank you for turning seven and giving us a party.

Bye buddy, Buddy, Bye buddy. All we have left to say on this podcast is thank you for making us TikTok. At dusk, a single gunshot echoed across a quiet street. There was something very wrong. No one seemed to be around. This gunshot seemed too sharp, but in this town there was never ever a crime. When responders arrived, they found an elderly tycoon collapsed outside his own estate, still alive, barely conscious, whispering nonsense, and just like that, a question

Yeah.

He controlled the town's largest employer, dictated local politics through fear and money, and treated human beings as disposable resources. He was also deeply, profoundly disliked, true doubt this story. Instigators were immediately overwhelmed, not by a lack of suspects, but by an excess of them.

You know.

Yeah. The list grew faster than detectives could type. Everyone had a story, Most had a grudge. Witnesses accounts were unreliable. Some contradicted themselves within minutes. Others contradicted reality, alibi shifted, timelines warped, physical evidence appeared, disappeared, then reappeared in places that made no sense. Eventually, investigators landed on a solution that felt neat, too neat. The case was closed with public confidence, media applause, and a quiet sense of relief.

Who's your mister person? Why did you write that?

I thought it was fun.

It's beautiful, beautiful.

We had a wonderful listener that said you should do who shot missus fans? And I thought, real quickly, get away with that for a whole episode. I thought it could be a little little fun, little tack.

On this shows. I know you too well, because when you were like I was like, why did you say tycoon? It's such a weird word. Oh my damn Simon.

Anyway, but

M