On a quiet June night in two thousand and two in an affluent suburb of Salt Lake City, settled into the ordinary rituals asleep, lights, dimmed, doors locked, the regular traditions of a family turning in for the night, fourteen year old Elizabeth Smart opened her eyes to see a man standing in her room that she shared with her sister. The man was not a stranger. In fact, he knew exactly where he was going. Elizabeth's sister went to their parents to tell them that a man had taken Elizabeth.
What followed would become one of the most harrowing and closely watched kidnapping cases in modern American history. This, Georgia Love, is a harrowing case of Elizabeth Smart.
I've seen that there's a docor on Netflix about this, and I haven't watched.
As Oh great, Okay, you are in for an absolute doozy. Hey there, everybody, Welcome to Not Now the Crime Podcast.
I'm Georgia Love, I'm Sammy Peterson, I'm a journalist.
I am not. But tell you what, if you want to skip ahead and just listen to the story, the time codes are in the show notes, and I'll tell you another little thing. We are recording a spontaneous podcast today.
Well, yes, for the listeners, it's not spot Regularity's good for you. Yeah, correct, Because I'm very bad at keeping my calendar and i'm particularly abaud it.
As you showed me before, you're going to five in May.
You're going to had a memory that I might be going to see five, So I searched the word in my calendar, and I am going.
The band, not just find things.
Yeah, we'll probably going to five things the same day because I forgot I was going there, and I don't know who I'm going with anyway. So if you're listening to this and I'm going with.
You, just let me know.
Alex comment below you please comment below.
Like comment subscribe to let me know where I'm going.
But yeah, I'm I'm really bad at putting things in my diary if they' booked really far in advance. But somehow there's a musical I'm going to that I put in twice on two different dates, so I thought I was going to it tonight. Turns out I'm not not going for two weeks. So I had a spontaneous night off. You didn't you had a gig. I had a gig, but you got home at nine pm and said, why don't you come on over?
When you come on dawn over, we'll record a podcast episode because I've written a couple of episodes with cases that I've seen recently that I've been really just really kind of mesmerized by. And I will say before how I mispronounced mesmerized. Was nothing on the intro which you didn't hear. Maybe I'll put it in here, but I couldn't pronounce Elizabeth. I think I said this Georgia Love
is the harrowing case of Elizabeth. So I'll play that here, so you know, the blue Puff, some of the hilarious that we take out of the podcast, the gig tonights and then and then let's record a good book.
Hey, how was the gig fine?
Okay, it wasn't amazing. It was just that there's a there's a certain thing I think in when I stopped doing stand up for six years, and then when I came back, I went, if I ever feel that aren't fit for stage again, it is the scariest thing to do. So I promised myself that I would just do one gig a week and I would always kind of keep up that fitness. It's like exercise if you just kind of keep moving and do something, you work that muscle and you're not worried at all, Like someone calls out,
I like crowded work with that. Yeah, but it's like but first going back into it was terrifying, and so I was like, I'll just do it once a week. And so someone offered me these two gigs unpaid. Two gigs. I've got a parking ticket, unpaid. Two gigs are in Collingwood. It's a great little place. It's an absolute bunker of a place, like it's down two flights well down two flights of stairs, but it kind of feels like an American like I imagine an America. I haven't been to America,
but I imagine like a New York club. And so you walk down these two flights of stairs and it's like this little bun up and it's just it's always like backpackers there. It's really interesting because I think it kind of feels like a cool like different comedy club or a comedy club that they used to and it was so funny because it wasn't huge. But I always if I can, I'll go and watch all the comedians on before me, but none of the other comedians did that.
So all of them asked where the front row were from, and they were all from England. And halfway through the third guy, I wanted to go they're all from the UK.
Yeah, and just listen to the people just it was.
Pretty embarrassing actually for not that many people there, but yeah, it was. It was fun.
Did you make a joke about that when you went on them?
Yeah? I did, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I just kept saying with my friends from Brazil and they laughed at yeah, and that show baby, the old Razzle Dazzle. That's right.
Well, I want to go back to New York this year.
I mean.
That's the end of the sentence anyway. But they announced today that the new cast of Little Shop of Horrors, which is one of our fates.
That's so good.
Andy Carl, who is a Broadway legend but is also performed in two shows right here in Little Old Australia, Groundhog Day and Beetlejuice, and he has been cast as the dentist in Little Shop of Horrors.
He's born to play that role.
We watched the movie recently and watching it we were like Andy Cole needs to play this.
Yeah, yeah, he's got the comic timing and also like he just he just looks like that kind of character with a leather jacket. I can just see him do it. It's so cool. Like not because he's a monster dentist, I will say that.
I don't think he's even a dentist at all.
Oh really, not even qualified. And you can play the role. Yes, interesting, I guess the plant might not even be a real plant. Do you know who's playing Audrey too?
Audrey two is a plant.
Ah, they're getting a real plant for it. A fern lady. How exciting, a beautiful lady fern. But that's so fun. So you're planning on going back to New York just to see Andy Carl.
That's the excuse. There's never it's not ever just for one thing. But that's going to be the excuse.
Can I say this? Because we went to go and see Beetlejuice the Musical when Eddie Perfect was on and Andy Carl was in the audience watching, Yes, and you introduced me to Andy Carl and he couldn't have me like been more down to worth and nice. So I thought,
like kind of I don't know. There's something about like an American star where he's usually Broadway star, where you're like, or they might be a bit intense or a bit like or maybe he just kind of wants to just talk to the famous people in the room or something. It was so lovely, like a really down to worth nice guy.
And then we saw him again at Tim Minchin.
Yeah remember, Yeah, of course I had a good chat then.
Like, it will never not blow my mind that a Broadway star, yes, has just chats to me.
Yeah, I know. Actually thought Meryl Streek did that as well. She does the famous musical Meryl Straight movie. Yeah, that's good improv. Don't worry about it. It might be late, but we're firing at all cylinders.
I think we're doing really well. I think we're going to keep doing really well. We've got our jams. And one of my friends who listens to the pod said to me today, sometimes I can tell when you're drinking jams because I can hear when you because I can't hear the burp, but I can hear mid sentence when you kind of go like stop a bit. I was like, well, it's actually carbonated drink.
It's actually carbinated drink. But yeah, so this this documentary rights so Elizabeth Smart documentary which which I just are watch recently, I've been so I don't know what it is, but I think the Lucy let Be documentary has just come out, and the Elizabeth Smart one. Elizabeth Smart was not someone And we always talk about this that we don't know all the crimes.
We can't know all the crimes, but we will after a few more years of this podleam.
Yeah, yeah, asolutely. But this story in particular was something that I was surprised not to know about.
I don't know about it either. Yeah, And my friend Frannye, who's obsessed with true crime, said like message me the other day, going, I'm watching the Elizabeth Smart documentary, but I'm not loving it. I think I just know the case too. Well, Yes, that's interesting, so it must Oh god, this is going to be one of those embarrassing ones we say we don't know it.
That's the thing, though, There's so many different crimes that I think you and I have been fascinated with over the years, and you know, like when you did Peter Do Pass and the Joe Chinqua episode. For me, it's like it's you have these episodes that you go, I'll do that one because I know about that one.
Something there just stick in your mind, stick in.
Your mind, and everyone has one of those, and I kind of think when when we go through this story, Elizabeth Smart is definitely one of those.
For a lot of well, one of the stories that we've done before. There's actually been an update on Oh wow, okay, yes, so it was. The episode was titled The wood Chipper.
Oh yes, of course. Yeah. So a man well very excited on that episode because you just got back from New York City. Were chit chatting away and look, we got lots of complaints on an episode about how chit chatty you are. It's fine, go back.
And so a man named this is This is an Australian Bruce Saunders was murdered by his here we go.
He was in a love triangle.
It was in a love triangle. He didn't particularly know that he was his fiance and slash kind of x. She says they had split up. She was string him along. Her name is Sharon and she was with another man called Gregory Rosa. Gregory Rosa and his friend murdered Bruce and put his body through a wood chipper to make it look like it had been a terrible industrial accident, such.
A brutal and horrifying death. Yeah, awful.
Well. Gregory Rosa was sentenced to life in prison, but appealed the sentence. Oh actually, sorry, appealed the conviction. The appealed grounds were that his lawyers.
Argued that he didn't want to go to jail.
Yes, exactly, So he and Sharon were tried separately, and his argument was that they shouldn't have been tried separately because then that impact negatively impacted his trial because Sharon had been found guilty.
Take the heater. Ah right, okay, And just this.
Week at the time of recording, the appeals court went, nah, so he's officially going to spend life in prison.
Oh and good yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, Okay, that's really interesting. And also the Philip Island murder, there's been no real update.
There on has been an update, there's no final answer. The update is and so if you haven't heard, when we discussed this before, a skull and vertebrae were found in the backyard in Philip Island. Yes, yeah, that we got very excited that that might be the body or the remains of Vivian Cameron. That episode is called the Philip Island Murder if you want to go back and listen to that. Police have said that the forensic testing on the remains is still ongoing, but they do not
believe it's linked to quote any active missing persons cases. Yes, yeah, which is interesting. You know what I've been thinking about it since? Is Vivian Cameron an active missing person's case? Because it didn't, haven't they ruled that? Yeah, I guess she's not suicide. Yeah, Oh my god, I've just realized this. Yeah, maybe that's interesting.
Yeah, I don't know. I feel like they Yeah, I feel like they didn't stop anyone from talking about it. I don't know, can't get we can't get too into this because who knows, but it would be really interesting. We have to have Vicki Patritis on to talk about it, who wrote the book with Paul Delaney, The Philippilo Murderers, has called that and it's fascinating and I've had a few conversations with Vicky there in the last few weeks.
There's been another thing in the news today. So we haven't discussed this before because it hasn't been considered a crime yet.
Yeah.
A four year old boy in South Australia called Gus Lamont went missing back in September. He was at a family like a rural property of sheep farm with family members and he wandered off and went missing. There's been extensive searchers and no trace of him has been found at all. Just today. So that was in September. Now in January, police have revealed that they do believe there was foul play. Oh wow, and that the owner of that property is their one and only suspect. Now it's
not the parents. They're very very very parents that they had no involvement, but a family member is their one and only suspects.
Oh my god. Okay, that's so fascinating.
When we find it, When or if we find out more about that, we will be updated. But I just thought if anyone, you know, our listeners have known that from the news or anything, that was a big story today because they were really adamant earlier saying it's not any foul play, but today they've said yes, Oh my god.
And sorry, I'm just going to stop because as we're as we're doing this, we've had a speak pipe come through from someone we know, and also I wanted to do this before we actually really get into the podcast today because we always do mailbag at the end. I think that's I think that's great, but I just want to kind of read a couple of things just quickly because I really really kind of love this that came in from someone called Wilm that came in late today
and I just wanted to read this. Hi, Sammy and Georgia. After recently discovering your podcast from the Epsamy did on Miss New Body, I can confirm I am obsessed. Much like Miss Previous bang on. It feels like I'm having a veno with my mates. Your friendship is electric and brings such lightness to heavy topics. I just listened to your Joe Chinkway episode. Being from Canberra, I was drawn to it immediately to provide a take on the title
of Helen Ghana's book, which was Joe Chinway's Consolation. I think Joe's Consolation is the book itself. With all the media focus on a new in a state of mind, the book sheds light on Joe and his family and ensures he's known and not forgotten. And I absolutely love that. I love that as a small consolation in a senseless act. Thanks for giving me something new to obsess over. Vilma. I love Vilma as a name.
So that's a beautiful name.
Yeah, I want to say the last name, but we're beautiful full name. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm not saying that people don't have full names, but don't don't know me for that. Actually, you're right.
Before youve doesn't God?
You all right? Well? Because this person we just spoke about, so I thought it'd be really funny that they've actually sent in a speak pipe an hour ago. This is someone that you know very well.
Hello, Sammy and Georgia. It's Alex friend here, long time listener, first time call up. We've up the great work. I love listening to your two episodes each week, usually when i'm writing to work or from work, or out in the garden when i'm doing some watering like i'm doing right now. I just finished listening to an episode and your poor dry peeved to which are where you complained about not being able to complete an electronic declaration that you have to use the pen and paper. Yes, I've
got some good news for you. Recently came back from an overseas trip in Paloo and was pleased to see on the Quantus app I could complete a custom was declaration. You then take a screenshot of it and then use that when you coming back through customs. So something you probably weren't aware of and you'll be excited to be able to use when your next travel speak to you.
Oh my god, Alex, I love you.
Isn't that great?
Leave another speak pipe and let me know if I'm going to five?
Did you? Can you let me know my plans over the next few weeks. I want to say as well before we get into it, because also if you want to leave a beautiful speak pipe for us a voicemail, we would absolutely love that. The link is below to do that, or you can write in like Filmer did to Semi at just another company, dot com, dot you. We will do the mail bag at the end. But I thought that was fun to do those at the front.
I'm my god, that's great. How funny that I brought up Alex, And I also love that he didn't just text me that.
Well, No, I thought I thought that was funny because I thought because we had to reschedule dinner with him next week, I've texted him to I thought it might have been a message about that anyway. So Alex is a beautiful friend of yours. Yes, and Alex, I've never really hung out with one on one before until until Alex came over here to check out my new place and was so lovely and supportive about it. He brought Digs a Christmas gift and like me, a housewarming gift,
and it was just so nice. And Alex is just one of those people that you're just like you immediately just like them, You just like you're drawn to them. He's beautiful, He's so funny as well, and just like the loveliest person around.
Can I tell a great Alex story? So I had news Eve at his house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I was talking to one of his friends who we were talking about Halloween. And his friend is a gay guy and I was talking to him about Halloween, said what did you dress up as? And then I showed him a picture of my costume and I didn't say what it was. I just showed him the picture, yes, and he didn't know what it was.
And I dressed up as Rankenstein.
No, that was h I'm so sorry I dressed up as Nicole Sheer as normal Desmond in the Broadway remake of Sunset Boulevard, so very niche. But I thought, you know audience. Yeah, he didn't know, and I went, oh no, I'm so disappointed. And he said, whose party was it? And I named the friends whose party was who were who were all gay guys, very like kind of big
in the Melbourne scene. Do you know drag shows? And I was like, you know, listing off the names and I said, you know, you know not No Thomas Jasper, It's no calm now. No, do you know dog Crazy? No? Well, I was like, oh, Granny Bingo, you know Granny Bingo? And He's like no, And I said, oh, you and I moving different, very different gay circles. And Alex was walking past and heard just that sentence and stopped and said to me, gee, how many times do I have to tell you you're not a gay?
Man's so funny? He showed me some of the funniest video that night as well.
Yeah, I had a little MENTI bee. Well, I had a huge, big mentib that day during the afternoon and then went to his house that night and was just a little bit a lot of bit drained from my big MENTIB and it was only maybe quarter past midnight, and I was like, you know what, I think I'll go home. My friend was driving, and so I was like, I'll go with her and Alex's partner, my other very good friend, Eugene said no. I was like no, no, no, don't go.
Oh no.
So Alex was saying, don't go, don't go, and Eugene disappeared, and I started packing up my stuff and Eugene had left to put on the Chicago soundtrack, knowing exactly what, and so Eugene and I performed like full blown, performed four different numbers from Chicago, and my friends would taking like videoing me saying she was literally leaving two minutes ago and was on the couch having a full blown anxiety attack three hours ago.
Well, what I love about it as well is you get quite angry in all of the videos when people aren't doing the white choreography. He sits in your head. Yep.
Well, because my best friend Arbor, he and I have we've known each other for so long, our brains have like SYNCD up, So there have been multiple times that we've been and again like that, performing for our friends and we'll just look at each other and know exactly what we're going to do next. And we've done like lifts and dips and stuff without ever practicing them or discussing them. So I thought that Eugene would be the same.
But apparently not.
Unfortunately, his soul mate is in fact Alex, not me.
Now we're going to get into the episode this week, but I just want to say quickly. I've said you know how to contact us, but another great thing is follow us on the social Media's Not Another Crime.
Podcast on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube, and please leave us a five star review and five star rating. The best thing is on Spotify. You can actually comment and engage with us on every single episode.
Yeah, we love that. The nice ones we love. But also it's Oliver Clark's birthday today recording this. He does the theme song for this podcast, Hams and Hayes does the artwork. We are very excited. We love doing this bloody podcast.
I say happy birthday to Oliver in the style of Oliver, of course, happy birthday to you.
That's very good. It also just sounds like you're doing a newsreader voice.
So that would be happy birthday to you.
That's great as well, little bit ready for this as who can't. Yeah, Well, they say, danger announces itself, that it crashes through doors, raises its voice, leaves unmistakable signs behind. But some of the most devastating crimes do the opposite. They arrive quietly in familiar spaces and disappear before anyone understands what has occurred. Elizabeth Smart was taken from under their noses, from our own home, from a room where she should have been the safest, from a family sleeping
just feet away. There was no dramatic chase, no immediate alarm, only the slow dawning realization that a child was gone. By the time the house woke up to the absence, the moment to stop at it all already passed. What followed was a search filled with fear, urgency, anger, and unanswered questions, shadowed by unbearable truth that the crime had occurred not in isolation, but in plain proximity to those who loved her most. What more could have been done.
This is a story of how a life can be stolen without warning, how evil can move silently through ordinary spaces. In fact, maybe the evil person is known, And how a girl was taken not from some distant place, but from right there under their noses. This case was defined by brazen, cruel, haunting, near misses, and a family's strength
that would later rewrite the story. It's the moment the unthinkable happened through the long, agonizing months that followed, months punctuated by hope, dread, and a series of cliff edge turns that repeatedly suggested the truth was just one step away and then snatched it back again. The Smart family home sat in a leafy Salt Lake City neighborhood, comfortable, safe, and unremarkable.
Can I just say, you've been running some really beautiful intros to your stories, ain't they? We just start with so and say was born in You've been running really beautiful trying harder for love, Georgia, Love.
In the safest way. Security often is a little Smart was fourteen years old at the time, Bright, musical, conscience, conscientious consciences, nearly nearly her family went to bed on the fourth of June two thousand and two, acting nothing more than routines of a weekday morning.
Can I just ask, just because I'm trying to kind of just put in my mind, you said they're from Sole City. Yes, are they Mormon or.
They are y? Yeah. Sometime after two am a man entered the house. He carried a knife. Oh, he knew where he was going. Elizabeth was sleeping. Elizabeth was sleeping in a bedroom she shared with her younger sister.
We do have a friend called Elizabeth that everyone calls Bamy.
She with her younger sister, Mary Catherine. What happened next will be remembered in fragments, terror whispers, the cold certainty of a threat. The intruder pressed the knife to Elizabeth and told her he would kill her family. If she made a sound. She froze. He ordered her to come with him. Mary Catherine, half awake, witnessed the unthinkable, her sister being taken in the strain, in the dark by a stranger who seemed to vanish into the night. It
seemed unbelievable. The door closed, silence returned, and the clock kept dicking. By the time anyone realized Elizabeth was even missing, the darkness had already swallowed her footsteps. Whatever chance there was to stop this had slipped silently into the night. Corey Lyman, a police captain, got the call. He thought that a kidnapping in Federal Heights where they were would be solved really quickly. It was very uncommon and just
not a thing that ever happened. Federal Heights is a very affluent place, a place that is described in the Netflix documentary as a place you just wouldn't think crime happened. Corey thought that Elizabeth would be returned within forty eight hours. When Corey arrived at the scene, it was both ordinary and catastrophic. There was no obvious signs of forced entry, no ransom note, no witnesses beyond a traumatized child. There was a chair outside that being propped up against a window,
so did someone break in? Well, investigators started to think that maybe this was all staged. Mary Catherine told officers that she what she had seen a tall man, long hair, a beard, wearing a robe.
Thank god that she was there. I assume they're sharing a bedroom. Thank god she was to at least be able to ye. It's reminding me a little bit of Eloise Woolich that we've done a story. Well, mal Wolden was one of my guests and told that story, and that's a local Melbourne. One girl went missing from her bedroom in the middle of the nine has never been found, and you're part of the reason of that is because
no one saw anything. So I'm hoping, well, yeah, I maw a shadow, but I'm hoping this has a better ending than that.
Well. The interesting thing as well was she saw it, but then she just froze because what do you do? You know, like it's so little thing.
At least she was able to say, yeah, a man came into the bedroom, like, you know, at least that's a start. So straight away they're not looking at it as a you know, that she's run away or something.
No, no, but also like you know, the dad kind of thought at the time, is this just a nightmare? You know? So they're searching for her, but kind of going maybe this it's a nightmare. Who knows. So the man who was in the room spoke in a very soft but commanding voice, and he had a knife. This
is what Mary Catherine told the police. The description was unsettling and vague, with no physical evidence and only a child's terrified memory, Investigators were sprinting after a shadow, one that may already have crossed a line they could never reach. Police received about forty thousand tips right away, Sorry how many forty thousand tips.
Oh my god.
They assembled a team of hundreds of investigators. They interviewed teachers, friends and everyone they could think of. Search teams mobilize immediately.
Do you know what kind of tips like that they'd seen her, or that there's in my area exactly how you meant to go through forty thousand and work out what?
And also wild like, you know, it's a thing if you know, if you see something, say something, but not if you just see something for a car that's not Yeah, it would be really hard because it's like maybe people are trying their best to go I did see something, but it might not be connected. And that's like the resourcing alone. Canvases went door to door, roadblocks were established,
Helicopters scanned nearby foothills. Foothills if you don't know, it's just a term that always comes up in this story, foothills if you don't know, a low hills at the base of a mountain or mountain range.
I always kind of just thought it meant like the bottom of a mountain.
Yeah, I think that the base, but like at the start of a mountain, it might be like, you know, just a small mountain that then becomes a large mountain. I think yeah, the Smart family had a good reputation, and so neighbors all came to their aid very quickly. To aid in the search, investigators focused on one crucial tale. The intruder appeared to know the layout of the house that suggested prior contact. Mary Catherine knew that she recognized
the man's voice, but she just couldn't place it. It would be a long time before the truth would reveal itself and Mary would know exactly who this person was. But would it all be too late? But you have kind of started in the thick of it today. We need to step back to really look at the Smart family and particularly Elizabeth Smart.
It was that we're using that as a proper noun or is it an adjective? As a verb? Are they smart?
No?
Not a verb?
An adjective is great? Are they a smart family?
By name and by no Chase Elizabeth Smart was born on November third, nineteen eighty seven, in Salt Lake City, Utah. She was born into a loving Mormon family who took a lot of pride in their Mormon beliefs, and it was a big family too. Elizabeth was the second eldest child of four brothers and one sister, so six children all up. You can we see in the documentary which I quite like the documentary that are recently released on Netflix. And there's a great family photo of all the Smart family.
Mormon families are always quite big, but this one was quite nice to see. Like, you know, they look like they're quite a bit of character, these people. You can kind of see their personalities coming through.
I'm being so good in not quoting Book of Mormon right now.
Just wanted to say yourself, you do it later, Elizabeth. So each of the children were loved by Ed and Lowers Smart. They were each cared for equally, with each child love just as much as the next. No favorites here, Georgia love.
No. I don't believe that. They always say if you if your parents says they don't have a favorite, it just means it's not you.
That's a joke. Oh is that?
Oh my god, I've always just like known that, Joe.
Yeah, she says, yeah, exactly that it's if she says you're not a favorite, you know, that means it just wasn't you. Yeah. Yeah, But I'm not all bad.
I really am not all bad. I've got a favorite child. That's nice. That freaks people out because mothers have this policy line, you know, we don't have any favorites.
We love you all the same.
God, that's not actually true. So your mom said that to you, So you know, she said to you that she didn't have any favorites, she loved you all the same, pretty much, just meant you weren't it.
I know I was my mom's favorite. It's all right, because Katie's my dad, You're my favorite.
Cac ay. She did that after that big blow. At fourteen, Elizabeth was looking forward to a middle school graduation from Bryant Middle School and moving into East High School in Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City, cussiity sorry though Georgia love She was sporty, musical, she played the harp, oh wow, and a much person at school. She was a pretty picture perfect fourteen year old. She was pretty quiet, reserved.
She had a small group of tight knit friends and wasn't a member of any chat rooms or the online world at all. She kind of stayed away from that where she might meet someone nefarious. So that was kind of you know, that was like, oh well, she could have on line, It couldn't have been someone in chat room. Also, she didn't have a boyfriend. It seemed bizarre that Elizabeth would be the target of such a crime. Was it someone close to home or perhaps a robbery gone horribly wrong.
Maybe Elizabeth saw the person's face and they had to take her so that she wouldn't identify them all. Now, let's kind of meet the family really quickly. Here, We've got ed Smart, Elizabeth's father, edm former real estate agent and mortgage broker who became a public advocate for missing persons safety after his daughter's abduction. We've got lowest Smart, Lois is now a speaker and author who has drawn on her family's experiences to raise awareness about child safety and trauma recovery.
Well, God, none of this is giving away whether.
She was found, but at this stage of the story, she was a stay at home mother who cared for six children and lived the ways of the Mormon life. Charles Smart is Elizabeth's older brother. He has really maintained a really private life, much like Andrew Edward Edward Junior Smart, William Smart, and of course Mary Catherine, who was the younger sister who shared the room with Elizabeth.
Okay, I'm going to say something here. You said there were no favorites.
One of the children I know well, the father statement of the members. Mary Catherine was Elizabeth's younger sister who played a pivotal role and heroic role in this case. She later identified her abductors are so her sister's abductors voice to investigators. It was a familiar voice to her. There was a lot of pressure on her to remember the name, which she later spoke.
Out about, and how old was she at the time.
She was nine. Oh my god, I'm so young. In the early hours of June fifth, two thousand and two, Mary Catherine, who shared a room with Elizabeth, would make her way into her parents' bedroom. She walked over to her mum, Lois's side, and woke her up, saying, Mum, somebody has taken Elizabeth. Both parents first didn't understand the severity of the situation. As Ed started searching the girl's room, They were brushing it off at first, thinking perhaps Mary
Catherine was having a nightmare. Lois soon came down with Mary Catherine a few moments later, so Ed was kind of searching downstairs, where she said that they wouldn't find her and that a man had taken her. So while they're searching me, Catherine says that heartbreaking. They then turned on the light in the kitchen and saw the kitchen window had been opened and the fly screen had been
sliced large enough for someone to fit through. That's exactly when they realized what Mary Catherine was saying was true.
God, you can't even imagine, my God.
Police were called immediately and the neighborhood was locked down as officers focused on the immediate area. When they arrived at the home, they noticed a damaged window screen that had been cut with a knife. Beneath the window were actually two chairs so you kin see a photo, usually just one chair in the photo, but it was two chairs placed back to back our position to give an
intruder enough height to actually climb into the kitchen. It was a brazen break, and investigators was struck by the audacity of someone was entering home with six people inside.
Yes.
As a result, attention initially turned inward. Could Elizabeth's parents Ed and Lois have been involved and if so, what possible motive there be? No DNA was recovered, there were no usable fingerprints. Search dogs tracked Elizabeth sent from the house to the woods behind it. It's always the woods. But when the trail ran kind of abruptly ended, it raised a possibility that maybe she was taking in a
vehicle from the back of the house. There were later suggestions that the crime scene may have been contaminated, though little detail has ever been publicly.
Clarified because of people searching.
This is straight away, yeah, and not really making that I guess the proper precautions.
And it's so hard not to do that because of course you've got to go looking. But then yet it can contaminate.
Exactly, and if you've got dogs in there and everything, it's just going to not offense digs.
But yeah, computers actually never be offended by anything.
No computers were seized from the home, and investigators conducted in exhaustive search. Due to the overwhelming stress, devastation, and the psychological tool of being considered a suspect while his daughter was missing, ed Smart was actually admitted to a psychiatric ward in a hospital for a period of.
Time he was considered a suspect.
Yeah. He described shaking uncontrollably and crying throughout the night due to distress.
In the end, well, hang on, I'm saying, oh, I don't.
Yeah. Well, in the end, the only direct evidence came from the single witness, Elizabeth's younger sister, Mary Catherine.
So why were they considering the data suspect because they could have an inside things and they I mean, I suppose could have told her to say that all.
Yeah, exactly, and they weren't taking that as the only thing. She was also interrogated Paul Mary Catherine. She told investigators a consistent story, though she said she woke to find a man creeping into their bedroom. Terrified, she froze and pretended to be asleep. She watched as the intruder approached Elizabeth and threatened her with what she initially believed was a gun but later identified as a knife. He warned her not to make a sound and to come with him.
He then led Elizabeth out of the room. Moments later they were gone. Only then did Mary Catherine wake her parents. Hers was the sole eyewitness account of what happened in the room that night. Police asked Mary Catherine whether she recognized the intruder's voice. She said she couldn't identify him visually, the room had been far too dark, but she did recognize the voice. It was familiar to her, though she couldn't a place kind of where she knew it from.
A reward of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars was offered for any information leading to Elizabeth's return, and police were convinced this was not a ransom attack. So ransom attack or indeed a random attack. You know, they hadn't left a ransom note or.
But they knew that someone knew, that someone knew.
The investigators moved quickly, knowing the first seventy two hours were critical. With every hour that passed, the risk to Elizabeth being found dead increased. Oh god. The community response was overwhelming. Nearly one eight hundred people joined the search. Wow, and the case soon drew international attention. So the family and the community were very loved and everything, and everyone
just kind of rallied around. And when this doesn't happen in Federal Heights, we're all going out to search at once. Police began by eliminating the most immediate suspects. The parents ed smart became the initial focus. One of the first detectives on the scene noted the absence of scuff marks on the wall near the window, marks that would typically be expected if someone had actually climbed it inside and kind of dragged their body a bit inside.
Oh so maybe the chair was placed there as.
A ruse exactly. Yeah, this raised an unsettling question, was the break in actually staged. Attention then turned to Ed's brother brothers, Dave and Tom. Dave passed a polygraph test. Tom, however, s fision after making what some perceived as odd comments to the media, reporting.
Sorry, is that is this one Elizabeth's brothers?
No?
These are these are Ed's brothers?
All right?
So yes, repeatedly calling is Elizabeth a sweet girl and emphasizing how much he loved her. To the outsiders, his behavior seemed unusual. Tom later explained that he hadn't slept for days and was under extreme stress, so he just he just kind of focused on Elizabeth a lot in that and that was just a bit weird the way she's a weak girl.
And because she's a fourteen year old, like calling her beautiful at the time sounded a bit creepy.
Again, in the documentary does talk about it is I was just so stressed, and you know, he was in a world of her as at that time.
So spoiler spoiler alert, it wasn't him.
No, it wasn't him. But at one point human remains were discovered, but they did not belong to Elizabeth.
Oh god, oh god, imagine that moment.
Despite the setbacks and false leads, the family never gave up hope. All of the brothers of Ed's underwent polygraphs tests, which ultimately came back inconclusive. Given the immense pressure they were under, the shock, the grief, the lack of sleep, it all seems pretty unsurprising. Course, the Smart family questioned the validity of the tests, pointing out that the sessions lasted for hours and were conducted while they were exhausted
and highly stressed. In the end, the brothers were officially ruled out.
Oh thank god.
During this time, Mary Catherine felt profoundly isolated. Police asked that she not speak to anyone in order to preserve her memory of that night. Oh she's nine, leaving her alone in a room for around nine hours. She wasn't allowed to watch television or even talk to her parents.
I feel like, I mean, I don't know, don't know psychology or police tactics or child psychology or anything, but as a layman, I would think.
It seems very cruel.
It's cruel, but that I also kind of look at that and go, that could kind of convince a child to go, I'll just say something said, they let me go.
Exactly, And I think that's when you get a lot of false confessions and things. Yeah. Eventually officers permitted her grandma's sit with her. Investigators repeatedly interviewed Mary Catherine an even attempted hypnosis, but she was never able to identify the intruder by name. But that's not little girl. Still, other suspects emerged. A local milkman reported seeing a suspicious
man a few blocks from the Smart family home. That individual was identified as twenty six year old Brett Michael Edwards, who was already known to police due to an outstanding warrant for fraud and for assaulting a police officer the previous month. However, after questioning, investigators ruled him out. The physical description simply didn't match. Edwards was far taller and heavier than the man described by Mary Catherine.
God has so much pressure on Mary Catherine's memory.
It's all on that. Really, there's no evidence. Lead investigator Mick Fennety was able to soon find their next suspect. The Smart family were having renovations on their home, and under the list of contractors was a man by the name of Richard Reesi. He had a criminal record including burglary an attempted homicide, so no surprises there that some
alarm bells started ringing. There was some kind of blow up at one point between Richard, who was a contractor on the house at the time, and a trade yeah at the house one day over money, and after this Lowest reported that had she had stolen jewelry, so it was like where are they? These items were actually later recovered at Richard's house, So the theory was that Richard knew the inside of the Smart family home pretty well since he had actually worked.
There and potentially had beef with the dun.
And this plan was to break in and steal jewelry, but then he realized that Elizabeth had seen him and that she would identify him, so he took Elizabeth to cover it up. While in custody, Richard admitted to stealing from the Smart family home and acknowledged that he had learned about Elizabeth's kidnapping through the news. He was adamant, however, that he had nothing to do with the disappearance. During
police interviews, Richard grew increasing increasingly angry and distressed. He insisted the real perpetrator was still out there and repeatedly denied any involvement. Despite this, investigators became convinced they had their guilty man case closed in their minds. But according to the only eyewitnesses, Mary Catherine, Richard was not the
man that they were looking for. Richard's face was actually on TV on the news at the time released they released, yeah, that he was a suspect, and Mary Catherine turned to her dad and said, it wasn't him. Why do they have him?
But didn't she not see his face?
Yeah? But she knew his voice.
He was a training in the You assume it's not him if you're.
Saying this, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, So she knew right away it wasn't him. Wow, Okay, okay, the investigators the investigating. The investigation kind of continued after that, but you know, it wasn't as thorough because they thought they had.
Their Yeah okay, Well you hear about that a lot, don't you, Where people say they had all their eggs.
In one basket exactly because of that.
Oh god, it was almost if.
You're going to pin it on him no matter what. Then on July twenty fourth, something chilling happened.
July twenty fourth, So that's like, what kind of almost Yeah?
What's that like? Yeah, I mean nearly two months later, Yeah, Elizabeth's cousin woke in the night to a loud bang. Moments later, she saw a knife cutting through her window screen. She screamed, and the intruder fled. When the police arrived, they found a cut screen and two chairs positioned outside the window, just as they had seen at the Smart
family home. Was it a copycat, a prank? The detail about the chairs had never been released publicly, strongly suggesting it was the same person, but police remained fixated on Richard Reesi. Investigators noted significant mileage on his carver night of the abduction, and even offered him immunity for unrelated crimes if he would explain it. Richard refused.
I mean, what's the point offering immunity for other crimes, because if you're done for.
Exactly As time passed, pressure mounted, but he continued to deny any involvement over and over again until the day he died, just two months after Elizabeth's disappearance. Oh shit. In August two thousand and two, while being held at Utah State Prison, Reese suffered a sudden brain hemorrhage and collapsed in his cell. He was rushed to hospital and placed in a coma. Spite emergency surgery, doctors determined his brain injuries were irreversible. On August thirty, two thousand and.
Two, that's her birthday, is.
Reese's family made the decision to remove him from life support. He died at the age of forty eight.
I'm really sorry. I just said, excitedly, that's my birthday. This is sorry, that's awful.
It has since been suggested that the extreme stress he was under contributed significantly to his death. In fact, his widow, Angela Reese, publicly defended him after his death, saying he was wrongly suspected and known by family and friends as a kind person.
Well, hang on, didn't you see he was done for ten exactly?
But you know that he was under this for I think I think I put an undue amount of stress on him.
Okay.
She spoke about the toll the intense scrutiny took.
On him, which of course it would if you're not guilty of something. But yeah, still tried to kill someone another time.
Well, yes, yeah. Years later, some reports noted that Reese's widow struggled emotionally after his death, including a reported suicide attempt many years later, and I think she actually did end up taking her own life, although details about her
passing are limited through these accounts. In later years, Reese has sometimes been referred to indiscussions about investigative errors and the emotional cost of high profile cases, but official records and police conclusions confirmed that his death ended any direct link he might have had to Elizabeth Smart's actual abduction, So it was ruled out obviously that he wasn't the person after all of that.
Sorry, what do you mean after he died?
Yeah, okay, because.
He died or just they ended up clearing him.
They ended up clearing him, but yeah, but it was sadly too late. Elizabeth's family did not believe that Richard Reese was ever the person.
Because they just had so much faith in their daughter's recounted.
Exactly one day in October two thousand and two. It October, Mary Catherine approached her dad and said she knew who it was. She knew who had taken Elizabeth.
What?
Yeh? Mary? Catherine was reading a copy of the Guinness Book of World Records.
Oh my god, two thousand and two is the Guinness World Records book that I have. It was something like, I don't know if it was that age, because I'm about the same age as Elizabeth. I don't know if it's that age or if it's maybe just that time in the world. I was upset, like, that's all I wanted for Christmas.
Oh, it's so cooled. Mary Catherine was actually reading a book of Guinness World Records when the memory suddenly came rushing back. What she realized She had recognized the voice that night, and now at last she could put a name to it. She turned to her father and said, Emmanuel ed. Her father was confused of he didn't immediately recall anyone by the name of Emmanuel. Then it hit him and the realization stunned him. He called his brother and told him what Mary Catherine had said. His brother
was equally shocked. Mary Catherine had remembered a name, but the question remained, who was Emmanuel?
How would you just remember the name? Had she seen that name in the.
Book memory memory? Yeah, either from zinga faith, I don't know a name in the book or whatever it was. She just triggered, you know how that can work. It's whatever whatever triggers your brain that in that time, Manuel was a homeless, deeply religious preacher who had previously been to the Smart's family home. One of the out of kindness, Lois had given him some money and offered him some renovation jobs, believing he was harmless and wanting to give
him an opportunity. Mary Catherine had only encountered him briefly, but his voice had somehow stayed with her. Despite this revelation, police continued to focus their attention on Richard Reesi at the time that this came up, and largely dismissed Emmanuel as a serious suspect.
So they were kind of saying it was Richard Reese. That almost makes it even easier.
Exactly to pin it on him. Months later, with no movement from investigators on this lead, the family took matters into their own hands. Believing their daughter, they went to the media pleading for public help.
The family went to the media.
A sketch was released, though it wasn't an exact likeness. Emmanuel's appearance had changed significantly since then, and Emmanuel turned out it wasn't even his real name.
Oh my god.
Still, the description of a wandering religious preacher caught the attention of a crucial person, his sister, Emmanuel. System she recognized him as Brian David Mitchell.
Oh my god, my god, my god. Hang on, wait, So this homeless preacher has rocked up smart stool one day, and then being a beautiful family gave him money and offered him some odd jobs to give him money.
Yes, and then.
Mary Catherine has remembered his voice and his name has popped into her head one day. Yep, And so they've gone. We believe the family has gone. We believe it's this person called Emmanuel. Yes, done a sketch of this person they knew as Emmanuel. That sketch has gone on the news, and Emmanuel's sister has seen it and called police and said, he's not a Manuel.
His Ye, his name is Brian David Mitchell.
Holy shit.
Yeah, So it's actually Bonker's the way this happened, because that's so unheard of to ever happen like that.
It could also be like that could be a false memory.
That's so exactly exactly, But I don't think he had gone to the house to ask for work. I think she had actually seen him out preaching, and I can't asked him back. Brian had grown up in a strict religious household. From a young age, he displayed troubling sexual behaviors that followed him into adult boy.
No, I don't like where this is going.
He began abusing substances, and while in counseling, met a woman named Wander Elaine Barzi, whom he later married. Together, they embraced extreme religious beliefs. Brian rejected mainstream church teachings and began to see himself as a savior, one who believed he was entitled to take multiple wives.
Oh, Sammy, I don't like where this is going. I would like to end it here.
He and Wander adopted a cult like appearance, often wearing white robes, with Wander covering her face. Because of his striking appearance, Brian was relatively easy to spot.
What did he look like?
Well, he had hit a big beard and he had a white robe, like white robe yeah one, so yeah, so act.
You just said them all long white robes And I'm just like, why was he?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I don't understand. Together they embraced it. Oh, yeah, so because of his yeah, the white robe and everything quite easier. Spot Reports of sightings actually flooded in at cafes, restaurants, and on city streets, but each lead ended in frustration. At one point, Brian even attended a house party to preach with him cool house buddy man. With him were Wander and a very young girl.
Oh my god.
One man at the party noticed the girl and tried to speak to her, but Brian abruptly shut him down, insisting she was not to be of dressed. Was she Brian's daughter or was she Elizabeth Smart?
Oh my god.
As the weeks turned into months, Salt Lake City held its breath. Elizabeth face was everywhere on television screens, posters, and flies. Thousands of tips poured in. Everyone had to be followed, Everyone carried the fragile hope of finally bringing her home. As a search dragged on, psychological profiles were drawn up and investigators began asking the most painful question of all, was Elizabeth still alive? In truth, Elizabeth had
been seen multiple times during her captivity. On one occasion, police officers encountered her in a public space a library. Brian Mitchell claimed she was his wife. Wait, actually her, Yeah, Elizabeth stood silent, paralyzed by fear of what would happen if she spoke. The officers accepted the explanation and let him go.
And they didn't recognize her.
No, she was actually wearing a robe and covered her face a lot of the time. Oh she The moment would haunt the investigators for years.
Oh god, it would for your life.
Days are After a sketch of the suspect was released, the San Diego Police Department arrested Brian Mitchell for breaking into a church at the time. Yeah, he appeared in court on charges related to property damage and was released. What At the time, San Diego authorities were unaware that a person of interest in a major abduction case in Salt Lake City.
No, God, we hear about this so often, particularly in America. Feels like a thing.
They just don't apartments.
Oh my god.
Later there was another sighting, this time again in Salt Lake City. The young girl with Mitchell was clearly disguised, wearing a gray wig and sunglasses. Mitchell provided false names for all three of the people.
So him wandering, so him.
Wander, and this person. Yeah, and officers immediately suspected something was wrong. One officer pulled out a flyer with Elizabeth photo and asked.
If it was her, No, when she's there?
Elizabeth denied it at first, insisting she wasn't a girl they were looking. She'd be missing for nine months.
Oh no.
When she was briefly alone with an officer, he continued to press her, gently, asking who she really was. Eventually Elizabeth gave her name. Even then, she worried what would happen to her captors. Oh my god, Elizabeth Smart had been found. Ah, Elizabeth was finally safe home and reunited with her family. What Only then did she begin to tell what happened?
Oh, I don't think I want to know. So they were walking down the street, and then someone called in and said he looks like the guy on the news.
On the night she was taken, Elizabeth was held at knight point by Brian. He forced her up into the mountains behind her family home. They walked for miles, climbing to the ridge and descending down the other side. In the documentary, Elizabeth later recalled repeatedly asking if he was going to rape and kill her. If she was, she hoped it would be close to home, so her parents would actually be able to find her.
Don't she had that thought? That is absolutely horrendous, properent, that's harrowing.
Brian eventually led her to a small grove of trees where he and his wife were living. A small clearing had been made with a tent pitch there. Inside, Elizabeth was forced to remove her clothes and was washed with a sponge as part of what Brian described as a cleansing ritual. She was then made to put on a white robe. She was brought before Brian, who told her they were now married and that she was his wife. He said the marriage would be consummated.
No no, no, no no.
That night, inside the tent, Elizabeth was sexually assaulted while being threatened. She later said she wished it would all end in that moment. In the Netflix documentary Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart, she speaks about how young and innocent she was at the time, only fourteen, with little understanding of sex or what was happening to her. From that point on, survival became her only goal. Elizabeth later explained that something inside her shifted. She would do whatever it took to stay alive.
She followed orders, endured, and focused on outlasting her captors.
Oh God, I just I can any of these stories I hear. I cannot imagine that strength.
My God, day in, day out, not knowing when it's going to end. Brian David Mitchellan's partner Wanda Barzi, forced Elizabeth into kind of a nomadic existence, moving through foothills, sleeping raft and isolating her from the world. Mitchell used fear, religion, and ritual to maintain control, preaching a distorted belief system and convincing Elizabeth that escape would result in death hers and her families. She was renamed her identity, he was
stripped away. Freedom flickered in front of her like a mirage time and time again, but reaching for it could mean death, not just for her, but for everyone she ever loved. Months past, leeds dried up, media attention faded, and the case edge closer to becoming a cold case. All the while Brian's plans grew darker. He spoke of taking other children as his wives, even Elizabeth's cousin, which he attempted to.
Do so that was real.
It was actually him, It was actually him. He'd even talked about returning for Mary Catherine, Elizabeth's younger sister. Behind the scenes, detectives remained deeply unsettled. The image of the roadman refused to leave them. Then came the call. At one point, Brian decided to leave Salt Lake City and traveled with them to San Diego. He begged for money to buy three bus tickets for all of them. While there,
Elizabeth began to fear she would never be found. Drawing on extraordinary strength, she convinced Brian to return to Salt Lake City, telling him that God had spoken to her and said they needed to go back.
Oh my god, that's so smart. Brian accepted this because she thought they'd be more likely to be recognized.
Yea, praising her for finally embracing what he believed was his divine authority. So yeah, so he'd actually when he was in prison, so he got he was arrested in San Diego. And yeah, he was in prison for a few days and they had nothing to eat, nothing, and they were just Lawanda and her together, which is waiting for him to return.
Oh my god. And how scared she must have been to not even like kind of take that opportunity to run.
Yeah, yeah, and she was quite malnourished and everything as well, like she'd never strength. When they returned, a sighting was reported a road man traveling with two women Elizabeth Smart had been found the nation exhaled.
And they're just walking through the street. Yeah yeah, So he'd got this level of.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, quite delusional and believed he was the savior. So he's walking around in these robes and everything. It's just it's just nuts.
And then she's Elizabeth has convinced him that she's now on the same pith.
She understands what he's talking about. She's so smart and smart. Yeah, she goes, can we we need to go back to Salt Lake City And he was like, thank god, you're understanding. If that's the plan, we'll go there.
And then he got confident enough he was walking a down the street.
Yeah, well he was doing that anyway, like I mean, the whole time. He went to parties and stuff like it was. But the question lingered, how had it taken so long? How had she been seen and not saved? What harm had been done that could never be undone? Her rescue had closed one nightmare but opened another. Justice Justice would move slowly, unfolding in ways that were stranger and more painful than any one anticipated.
Why this should be open and closed.
Mitchell's behavior in court was erratic, theatrical, and deeply disturbing. Repeated competency are competency evaluations delayed the trial for years, Avenge because he couldn't talk in in normal ways, like when they interviewed him time and time again. He just talked about God and the Savior, and he wouldn't give any information because he was so delusional and was not
a well person. Eventually, Elizabeth testified, coming face to face with the man who had stolen her childhood and her identity, that.
Is so unfair that she was made to do that.
And so strong, oh so strong. Her composure actually stunned the court room.
Oh wow.
She spoke clearly and courageously about her captors and the years of abuse that had become her life. Her parents, of course, stood by her.
Years.
Yeah well, I mean the abuse didn't like I mean, it lasted nine months, but the abuse and the yes, yeah, god, her whole life, Oh my god. Time had passed, memories had solidified, and hanging over the courtroom was a heavy question. Could justice still be delivered or had time already taken its toll?
No, I don't understand any of these. Why is this not clear cut?
He was so nuts and not fit to stand trial?
Oh that are right?
Okay, But Mitchell was ultimately convicted and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
So sorry, was the kind of question mark over it? Whether he was mentally unstable so couldn't be found guilty?
That's right? Yeah. Wanda Barzi received a separate sentence after pleading guilty. Oh she did. Yeah, wow. Yeah. For the Smart family, the verdicts brought resolution, but not closure. The case may have closed on paper, but for Elizabeth Smart's survival was not the end of the story. She emerged not only as a survivor, but as an advocate, challenging cultural myths about victimhood, silence, and shame, and redefining what survival truly means. Her voice became louder, and the fear
that once controlled her was gone. She founded the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, helping to promote the National Amber Alert, the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act, and other legislation to help to prevent abductions in the future. She is actually a strong advocate for change.
Oh what an incredible woman.
The case reshaped how kidnappings were investigated, how victims were understood, and how near misses were analyzed. She attended Brigham Young University, studying music as a heart performance majoro. In twenty twelve, she married her husband, Matthew, and they now have two beautiful children together. She is an inspiration that there is life after tragedy. Elizabeth's parents, Ed and Lowis Co wrote a book about their trauma called Bringing Elizabeth Home, A
Journey of Faith and Hope. The Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart Shit. The kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart is remembered not only for its terror before, it's unlikely and unheard of ending. It's a story mark by systematic failures and extraordinary resilience, of how justice came periously close to slipping away, and how in the end a survivor ensured that that would not be the final word. The final word would in fact be her own. It's not just about captivity and escape,
It's about what survives after unimaginable loss. She was taken in the dead of night, carried through fear, silence, and belief, twisted into nightmares. When she came home, the world wanted a neat ending, but trauma does not obey timelines. Her life became proof that survival is not a single moment of rescue, but a long crossing, like emerging from deep water, lungs burned, learning how to breathe again, heavy lungs almost impossible to breathe, and a heavier heart to carry with you.
The cage was opened, but healing took years, and yet she strongly and bravely kept moving forward. In the end, Elizabeth Smart did not simply escape the wolf or outrun the darkness. She carried the weight of what was stolen and chose to live anyway, turning a story meant to end in silence into one that speaks loudly and forever for others. Some cases end with answers, and it gives family hope even today. She was found, but the girl who has taken never fully came home. Childhood and innocence
were ripped away without warning. This one ends with a voice that would not be silenced, and that voice is Elizabeth Smart. The end. Oh my god.
Oh I just I don't know what to think or feel. I know how I feel. What an incredibly strong and brave woman to be.
Able to fourteen as well, to redirect your captor to say that, to go back to Salt Lake City that but.
I mean even since as well too, to use that to then be an advocate, and I just what an incredible person And to then go on and you know, get married and have children, you know, and I hope that means she's got a lovely, happy life.
Yeah, yeah, oh, I.
Just this whole story is just.
I think, you know, like it really does prove you know that you can, Like I mean that the tragedy in the trauma is such a huge part of it, but I kind of think that if your first sexual experience as well was right, imagine having like the level of not knowing anything about sex, not knowing anything about tenderness or love or whatever, and then actually having, you know, going on to having two kids and a partner, like the strength that she has to overcome everything daily and
to just be in society like religion, belief, like all of that.
Every go to bed, like how do you ever fall asleep?
How do you feel safe in a place where you once felt safe.
I know that this isn't the case, but right now I can't think of a kidnapping case that's not had a ransom or anything attached that's resulted in someone coming home.
Yes, yeah, And I remember they were kind of you know, the story was kind of likened early days before they found out anything to John Benet Ramsey. They were about that side job when you see somewhere in the house or whatever. Like they did think that.
When you very first said they were treating the dad as a suspect, That's what I first thought of. Yeah, but I can't I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, or I'll think of ones afterwards, but I can't think right now of a case of a child kidnapped that's then come home for ransom.
And also like they walked, so they walked miles from the house to the woods, and at one point she was she could hear her name being cold, and she wanted to scream out. She wanted to do something, but she couldn't, And so they were searching around the area. They were, Yeah, I guess in that in that circumstance, because they thought, you know, the dogs actually found the trail.
You know, the dogs found the trail, and then they thought, oh, no, it's ended here or something, because obviously it went into the woods. But maybe the scent broke or something or whatever it was.
Maybe that's when they bathed her and changed her.
Perhaps, Yeah, but like the dogs lost the sense, so they thought, oh were cars taken aways? But the dogs were like onto the dogs, like, no, she's here, she's here, And if they kept going they would have found her. But they would walk miles through the woods to find her.
But yeah, okay, so I have some questions why her.
The only explanation really is that he met her and saw her.
Just got a fascination with her or something.
Oh god.
Another question is.
I've been well? Thank you?
Have you been well?
Well?
I don't know. This probably was an answered if he rapid fire, sorry, if he had, if he pleaded not guilty, I suppose. We probably don't know. But did he ever explain whether he was looking for a wife and chows her, or if he met her and got a fascination with her.
I don't know. I don't Yeah, please please write in if you know that he was looking for wives. He was looking, he was going, that's why I went to the cousin's house. Like he was. He was going to take as many women as he wanted.
Another question, wander did she end up pleading guilt, Like, did she kind of come out and say I was brainwashed as well, and I was coerced.
I don't know. I think she was brainwashed, but she also went along with his belief I think kind of fell in love with him for his savior like beliefs.
If she pleaded guilty, that.
It kind of means she's napped out of it, doesn't it. Yes?
But also, I mean we've talked about like Fred and Rosemary West and like the Barbie and Ken Killers, the females in both of those stories ended up saying I'm not guilty because I was coerced and brain life, And if she's pleaded guilty, that kind of I mean that goes against at least with those two.
Sure, Yeah, I don't really know. I found it really interesting. I didn't want to go into too many of the details of like the those two because I didn't really want to talk about those two so much, But more about Elizabeth because I just think, you know, her story is quite incredible, and also Mary Catherine. Like you think about Mary Catherine, you go, holy shit. Her younger sister nine years old that one day just went I know who it.
Was, and that her family believed her wholeheartedly. Yeah, because far out there, like the memory of a nine year old, Like we were saying, it could be that she's just thought, I just need to say someone so they stop asking me, or so I look. How incredible for her to have remembered that, but also for them to go, yes, we are believing you.
Yes, Yeah, And it's just such an unheard of story to be that she comes back nine months later, and you know, it just has to Like there's footage of her when she says her dad for the first time, you know, and it's heartbreaking. That's in the documentary. The documentary is worth watching. It's not the best documentary for time, but it's interesting to watch.
Is she in it?
Yes, she's wow. Yes, that's what's incredible about it. She's interviewed Mary Catherine's interviewed in her Dad. Her mum is not interviewed in it. But I think she's kind of stepped away as far as I know, she's kind of stepped away from media and everything.
I did find it interesting when you said the mom and dad wrote wrote a book about their experience. Yeah, you know, people have their ways of healing. But that makes me feel a little bit icky about like, let's use our daughter's.
You know, you know, Elizabeth is an advocate, you help with the book, you know. Yeah, so you know there's a photo of those three on the front, like now, so it's like, yeah, I think I think it was a way of them talking about and that might.
Be a way of them getting out their feelings and healing Exactually, yeah, I just always feel just a little bit icky when people profit off something awful that's happened not too mean wealth.
So no, that's wrong.
I was going to say not to them because happened to Elizabeth, but of course happened to them. Yeah, I feel like she's the advocate. I don't know, it just makes me feel a little bit.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, they all reports are a great family and they're really supportive and everything. So they were with her for the whole thing. I feel like, you know, they've written this book with her about experience to promote.
It also could be very much for their healing as well.
Yeah, well I imagine those two like and also like the fact that it was turned inwardly so quickly, and it was like the dad and his brothers are the ones to blame. Tom and day, they're the ones to blame, Like it seems like it was really they were pointing the fingers at them until they you know, racy, and then they kind of went, no, no, he's the guy. He's the guy.
And then which like it kind of does sound it did sound like it was.
Oh exactly, and the fact that it was.
A random, fucking crazy ass could person that's never where you would think, like, that's not where you would put your mind.
But like a contractor in the house that had been he'd like, you know, attempted homicide.
And yeah, exactly, of course he would.
Yeah, and burglary like they're going, okay, you know, totally checks out. So you can kind of see where the police were going with that. And then they found like the stolen jewelry in the house from oh my god, that easily goes together, but it feels like the scene was just contaminated. Early on, there would have been fingerprints probably sure, yeah, but they couldn't get any for some reason.
It was too contaminated to find that. But that's the sad thing about cases like that, where you go, oh, it could have been solved so much easier, but you know, sometimes.
It was solved it was sold, It was sold, had a nice life just trauma. Yea far out what a store?
I know, I know. If you want to tell us anything that you know about this story, some extra information, please do right into Sammy at just Another Company dot com dot au. You can leave us a voicemail. We love those. The website is in the show notes below. Can people follow us your love?
Yeah they can on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at not Another Crime.
Oh yeah, leave us a five star rating, Leave us a five stars. The more you share this podcast and get it out there, the more it helps us as beautiful, beautiful people this world. And we are excuse me, are you ready for the mail bag section?
I am becoming really quickly, Pee, of course.
You can, lovely girl, Thank you for soon. This is the mail bag you're ready for this? This one comes from Katie. Just a very quick email today, Cane. He says, my ex boss is called Kenyon. That is all love the Body x x action.
Hey go to that break because in the Clutter Family Murder we said I never heard the name Kenyan.
Before Kenyon before. This email comes from Kinie. Hi, guys, I've just finished the anniversary episode with National Treasure, Myth and the wonderful Oliver Clark. I'm a bit behind because school holidays means kids in the car and I don't like podcast Little Freaks, not because we're talking.
About crimes and.
I usually listen in the car. But the comments about Digs meant I had to watch the YouTube version, and I'm so glad I did. There's just another element of something when you watch. What a great plug for the YouTube channel. It's just a shame I can't watch while I'm driving. Well, the police don't seem to like it.
You'll be on a crime episode if you do that.
Anyway. You asked about which guests are our favorites, and I have to say Myth and Oliver are definitely two of them. Please have them on as much as you can. But to be honest, I can't think of too many episodes where I haven't enjoyed the guests, although I didn't like the Best Dead one for some reason, maybe because I had no idea of the story and just didn't get it fair enough. If you didn't fair enough, you
guys are very good at picking your guest. I really do like Scott Williams episodes, but I had to ask who is he? At first I thought he was the mister ordinary guy, but he's got a different name. Where did Scott come from? While I'm asking questions? Can I ask you how you two met? I can't remember if you have explained the origin of your friendship. I wanted to say as well that I love the longer episodes. I liked the backstory in little details that we get
with the longer episodes. You also asked which kinds of episodes we liked best, whether it's the gory ones or the highest financial whatever else crimes. Personally, I like the stories where there's a human background story, which unfortunately usually comes with the grizzly murder stories. There's not usually not much of a personal story with the highest financial crimes or pig wars. Sama, I hope you'll sleeping better these days. Did you find a white noise that works for you?
Keep up the good work and here's to many more podcast birthdays, Kylie.
Oh my goodness, Kylie, that's.
Such a thoughtful, wonderful email to come through, beautiful internet letter. Firstly, I am sleeping a little bit better. I have got rain sounds, I've got all this stuff, Kylie and it's great. I've got the white Noise at which I absolutely love, and I've got these aren't these gummies that I have at nighttime and they make me feel so much better, just CBD gummies. And they are so so with their Central Business District gummies. They are so good city gummies.
They are so good for me, they really if I take them about an hour before I go to bed, they are just so good. They knocked me out. And then I don't like melatonin so much because they make me a bit groggy in the morning. Okay, but but god, kylie, these goddamn gummies. Oh, chuck your link if you want to. But yes, so Scott Williams is will pat So. That was his pseudonym when he was writing books.
He so, Yes, he was the mister ordinary guy he wrote. He wrote a book called Mister Ordinary Goes to Jail. We had him on an episode where he told that story. So he went to jail for fraud, and he tells that story about what he did, what he learned, and who he has become since. What he didn't say in that episode in who He's become since? Was his real name he wrote under under a pseudonym.
He changed his wife as well.
Yes, yeah, we're not by de Bault. Our listeners loved him, We loved him, and he loved being part of the pod. So he actually asked if he could come back and tell us a story. And as you now know, he's come back and done that many many times. And he has said that he felt like a fraud once again in still going under his writing pseudonym name, so we're now calling him his real name, Williams. So yes, it
is the mister ordinary guy. But if you'd missed the episode where he revealed that that would be very confusing.
Yeah, absolutely. And also we met through a mutual friend called Bill.
We and if you've listened to every episode, Bill is the one who did the Toy World closing call in the episode about the roof mat.
Yes he did. But yeah, we were introduced by a mutual friend who kept saying you've got to meet, You're going to meet, You're going to meet, and then finally just put us in a text exchange together and said you two have to meet. I'm making it happen. And Georgia came on a podcast that I did are called Confessions, and we met then and then hit it off and have been close knit ever.
Goddamn it was within five minutes we were like, goddamn it, Bill was right. Do love each other. And one of the first conversations was when you introduced me to your dog and said his name is Missy Diggins. I said, my cat's name is Poudry, hepburn and we're I think we're gonna be.
Are you ready for this voicemail that comes from our good friend Hannah.
Yes, Hi, Sammy.
And Georgia, It's Hannah. I only started listening, maybe like a couple of months ago, but I've listened to so many of your episodes and I just listened to Sammy's Special Wives along Face.
I have to say you got me quite emotional.
At the end there.
I think I'm struggling with a bit of a Paris social relations guys, but I feel like such a proud little sister of Sammy and both of yous. I just feel like I'm just sitting down with a couple of friends. And I just wanted to say that I absolutely loved the comedy Special and I hope that one day I can see you in person when you come to Sydney next And I really love the podcast, and you.
Guys had a bit of drink to get up the.
Courage, but yeah, I just wanted to say that I love you guys, and yeah, keep the good work.
Hannah.
You are the sweetest thing in the whole world.
We've had a bit to drink as well, Hannah. Don't you worry about that ever, You're.
The sweetest And can I say she's right. Your comedy special White the Long Face, which is available now on YouTube, is just the most beautiful show. It's so funny, but it's really touching and yeah, the end is emotional and I love that. Thank you, Hannah.
I'm so glad you liked it. That's that's beautiful and absolutely in Sydney next time for sure. But yeah, it's so it's just so nice to hear that Hannah as well, Like we love hearing from people that like the podcast. And also when you feel like, you know, we're just putting an extra chair out for someone, that is the nicest compliment that we could have for the podcast. So we bloody love you. Thank you for getting the courage as well to send a voicemail. I knows people kind
of feel a bit funny sometimes, like sending a voicemail. Ah, but just say you know it's your friends. We love it. We absolutely want to hear from you had it. That's beautiful that you got the courage to send that through. That's lovely, and thank you so much for that beautiful. The beautiful compliment about the show as well, and the plug and the goddamn blood we take care of the bugs comes from Danny l hi Gi and Semmi P.
I was listening to The Button Man with Scott. It gives Boogeyman vibe, but I would definitely watch the Netflix doco after listening to Scott's haunting description of how it would look gives me chills. I live in Gippsland and I've heard about the Button Man and the idea of him haunts the hell out of me. But I also hope he is okay. After the Man's filled bushfires that went through recently, it's a confusing feeling. It's a big no thank you to hiking in the high Country for me.
I'm a long time first time letter sender and I love, love, love the pod five stars all round. I'm a mom of three very busy boys, and I lost my stomach for true crime when I had kids. Your pod has reignited my ability to not only stomach but love true crime again. It also helps me cope through the parenting fatigue. Your chats and banter are the highlight of my week. I now follow Digs on socials. Digs love that, thank you so much, and I love him, especially the noisy
contributions during the recording serious content. Also, he's been pretty quiet today.
Yeah, because I noticed that he's that loud, squeaky ass pig was sitting really obviously, so I hit it under the couch before.
He brings back memories of our old boy Seth, who was a massive pup. Like Digs all attach a pick. He could have been Dig's smaller cousin. Love that I love I've I especially loved the updates on the Mushroom cookcase. I live in a town right near Morewell, in less than an hour from ling Gaffa, so very close to home. I don't think I could actually pick a fave episode. Keep the long ones coming, g They're so good. My recommendations were originally for the Russell Hill and Carol Clay
High Country murders. However, with conviction being quash, it's a touchy one. So with that, I have two recommendations from the Gippsland region or hit me the Jared Levision Lovision murder in twenty twenty l ov I Son Lovison loves the Jared Loverston murder in twenty twenty, a Newborough man who disappeared in April twenty twenty and was then found in Moondara State Park partially decomposed. Not a black panther attack,
she writes to me. He was known in my sister in law's friend group at school, so very close to home. We all followed a real time podcast by Rinn Nikomano during the search and investigation of his murder. Second recommendation is the nineteen ninety seven unsolved murder of thirteen month old Jaden Lesi from Louis, Victoria.
I've started writing that one. Oh, I've actually started it.
He disappeared whilst his mother's boyfriend was looking after him and was found six months later. Although it's probably one I won't be able to listen to. The child ones are too much for me, or sorry about the Lucy let Be one recently. It is a devastating case with a very sad and unsolved outcome. Thank you both for what you do. The respect you give the victims whilst making the content palatable is a real talent. I never
wanted to end. Can't wait to celebrate one hundred years with you when it comes Mom, Danny and this is her beautiful boy.
Sathy is such a funny name for a dog. By the way, show me, Oh my god, stop holding it back from me.
Oh my god.
He does look like a little dick.
Well, I think he might be the same. Maybe he's kind of similar size to Diggs. He does look a bit smaller, but you're hugging right now.
But yeah, daddy, So yes, I have started doing the Jade and Lescue one. I actually started writing it when I was in more Well for the Musha because I was driving past MOI every time. And you've reminded me that I haven't finished it, so i'll do that one soon. But also I would like to know where you're from. You don't have to tell us we don't from, yes, because Sammy's from South Gippsland and I lived inter Ralgon Free and Tragon and also my sister has I should have said that my family.
Yes, there's a there's an area down there where you sometimes inhabits coord near him South. Yes, a beautiful part of the world. Do self a favor. Yes, this one comes from Johannah High. Sammy and Georgia love the podcast. I meantening for a while now as I've found this from Confessions, which I loved and went to the final live show which was hilarious. Thank you the best, Georgie. I just wanted to say I love that you love musicals.
I'm a big musical fan myself, and my brag is that I saw Wicked in its very early days on Broadway in my first trip to New York.
You better not say with Christian Jenny with than a dinner.
It was amazing. Well, Janet, please do write in again and let us know about that. Anyway, just want to say I really enjoyed the Azaria and Lindy Chamberlain episode as it explored more than I already knew about the tragedy. How I really found out about the story originally was from a song by Australian folk singer and retired judge Judy Small, who wrote a song about it called Evil Angels, which is a fantastic song and yeah, expressing the outrage of her being accused and put in jail for a
crime she didn't do. I also recently saw the movie Evil Angels but called a Cry in the Day Outside of Australia and New Zealand nineteen eighty eight Crime the Dark's interesting, isn't it.
That's a better name Angels as well because they didn't do anything.
No with Meryl Streep playing Lindy in which he does an extrain accent worth a watch if you haven't seen it. Love you guys, and keep up the great work. Ps for the record, I like the longer episodes as I listen on the weekends, mostly when I'm cleaning my apartment. Kind regards, Jo had a gun Jennaourtis say thank you so much for your lovely mention of convensions and for coming to the live show.
Yeah, we love it because Sammy, you've actually just recently released another episode.
Yes I have. And can I say at the time of recording, I'm about to record one with Christy will and Brown and Genevieve Morris.
Stop at the two of the most wonderful women in the h goddamn world.
Correct, correct? And so yeah, I'm going to do one a month for a bit. I'm actually doing some shows during the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. Two shows Will Anderson, Mith Warhurst and Joe Creesy con but for one of the shows, Christopher Hall, bron Lewis and I Believe Dave Hughsey Hughes Is the other guests. The other one is that wild that's world. I don't know.
You are simply unstoppable.
I cannot be stopped. Oh my god, an afternoon drink at the Melbourne Comedy Festival. It is so much fun just to come to comedy public have a drink. I'll be there. Come and have a drink with me. It's it's just a fun show because it's me reading Reddit confessions over a few drinks. It's fun. It's wild, and the guests are really loose because I know all the guests really well. That comes, so it's like apart from Husy but it's really we'll see you, but it's just
a kind of a fun vibe. It'll be really fun. Oh my god, this one comes, Megan. We've got so many good letters Megan.
Hello, Sammy g and Digs Meghan, longtime listener, second time speak.
Perhaps I love you.
I'll start by saying I was absolutely humiliated to realize on listening to the podcast that we weren't all sending speak pipes, speak pipes, speak pipes, taking voice recordings and then sending them.
As an email attachment. Don't worry about it. I can't say, Luca, twenty six of us have to be doing a link in bio. I thought about sending the sun just on like a cat.
Cassette who has the time?
God, you're right anyway, just.
This is not a this is not a podcast worthy of speak pipe as my one about the baby fingerprinting.
Was apologies, yes this is not another.
Reassurance speak pipe to you, Sammy to say that I was one of the five thousand. I think I was about number three thousand, five hundred.
Watch the comedy special.
Was absolutely loving it, enthralled in screen based coba, watching.
It on my bed when it suddenly I just want to reassure you that I think all five thousand of.
Those people would have done something similar to.
What I did, which is.
Immediately realized that it was obviously an error. It's sad that we couldn't immediately listen watch the rest of it, but.
Obviously and did.
Go back and watch the end. Absolutely worth it.
I thought about emailing when it stopped abruptly, by.
Given that three thousand people had come before me, I.
Thought you'd probably already received an emails.
So just a little reassurance that watching to the point where it cuts out was definitely strong.
Enough motivations, oh little bit want to return. And I'm sure that all those people returned.
Amazing, amazing show and yeah, devastating.
There's there's a part two to this as well, which we should play before we talk. But I just love that so much, and it's heartwarming to know that people went back because there was a part of being Meggan that night that went.
I am absolutely dying.
That cut out abruptly.
Different to the comedy, specially these.
People got to the end of that speak I'm going to cut out abruptly. I don't think that they'd be I thought about starting again.
But it's beautiful whatever, whatever, anyway, just I had finished. Anyway, what am I doing back here?
Yeah, it must have been super devastating to realize that.
Watched it.
And then yeah, it was so the whole thing. But as she said, how heartening that five thousand people had watched that much of already. And I am relatively certain that like the that, like me, the rest of the people that had gone on to watching it so quickly absolutely would have returned to watch the rest of it.
So yeah, that's all absolutely finishing properly.
Oh Megan, you are so what about? Oh my god, that couldn't have been more perfect? And also, can I just say, I embarrass you It could not be more perfect Megan that you've said that, because it was. It was really devastating the night when the special came out and and it cut off. It was really devastating. And I have reassured Sammy with all conviction and belief that everyone who wanted to watch it will have come back
and watched it again. Yeah. See, yeah, but I can say that and he won't believe me, but someone who actually did that.
Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, I mean yeah, it was really devastating when I found out that it was because the thing was that it was all ready to go in November and it was already it was all finished, Megan as well, Like the whole special was there, and then it got pushed back and pushed back because other comedians brought out theres first, and I was like very
patient about it. And everything, and then it was uploaded on the day and I was just like, oh wow, it's been sitting there for so long and it wasn't checked and it went up and then I didn't notice because I was like, oh, I don't want to know anything about it. I don't want to I just want to kind of sit back and hopefully people watch it or post about it. Comede Republic posted about it, and then it wasn't until I got a message to say, you know, why does it off luff halfway through, like
halfway through a story. The other thing as well, is it's so funny that it goes for an hour and fifteen minutes because especial, like you know, it usually goes for fifty minutes, so and.
Your show went for an hour, so you must have just been doing a lot more like Crown I was.
I don't know.
I just I just thought laughs were so big you had to pause for Lafe for like thirteen minutes, cold old, but it was.
It was so it was so funny. It was just like, it's never really gone for an hour and fifteen minutes before, and so that was the only night that it did. And what I remember of that night as well is that there was a daylight savings clock that was on the thing and it was an hour behind. So I thought that I had gone way under, and so I kept going and look at the clog old shit, I've completely stuffed up the show. And then as I got off, I went, oh, no, I've gone way over. But but
you know, it was totally fine with the venue. But it was. Yeah, it was just so interesting because the show was way longer than it usually is. And I don't know why that was. I looked at the show and I was like, there's nothing laugh But yeah, Megan, that actually means the world to me that you went back and watched it and also sent that voicemail confirming that, because when you see, like you know, five thousand people have watched it without an ending, and you go, oh no,
those things lost yea, exactly exactly. So thank you for sending that in. And I just want to do this because this is this SENTI in a little while ago. But we were talking about your news reporter is making mistakes, yes a while ago, and Corey sent.
This in five years old when he is ten siblings suddenly there because it's just so five years old when he is ten siblings.
Suddenly goes by Corey. But it's just so funny when when news moments like that happen and people get too excited or too into it or have like an excited tone of voice, and then yeah, we we love moments like that. On August thirty, two thousand and two, that's our birthday, Reese's family made the decision to remove him from life support. He died at the age of forty eight.
I'm really sorry. I just said excitedly, that's my birthday. This is sorry, that's awful. It happened a little bit when I had my snot take on.
Oh yeah. But we sometimes do that as well in the podcast, where we.
Laugh about something else and then we go back to.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, thank you as always people for leaving goddamn voicemails, leaving his digs Haven a little dreams.
He's dreaming. He's laying up against me and he's having a big old dream. He's twitching and everything.
But I've just got him stairs to get up for my bed. Because of his arthritis and hyptosplacier. He's now got stairs to get up and it is so funny. He mum and dad came over and he was showing them the stairs. Stop it. He was showing them off the stairs, showing off how could use Yeah, yeah, it was so cute.
People usually get stairs for like they're like sausage dop.
I know, hip displace you like he needs them. But it's so funny watching him get up the stairs. The big fim, you big fim. Well they're calling our digs of fim. I think it's so fast because that's how we talk. But he looks at the birds today. A bird was having a bird bath in his water ball and he's just looking at it. Gone, pen stiff, film, you're a pen stiff. But he wasn't. He didn't do anything about it because he never does. He just watch again, scary scary, He's gone, you pestiff, pen stiff.
We're going to record an episode at my house soon.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, all right, So before we finish up today, let's do go down powdry p Yeah you remember, I remember because I know that you get upset when I start doing my wrap ups and everything before we get into that. So, g what is your pawdry peeve for today? Right? Yes?
So you peep? Today is when online stores advertised. So you get like an Instagram or Facebook or like on the side of the news website page work, yes, pops up with like a specific product yeah, and you go, oh god, damn it, I do like that product. So you click on the link to the shop, and that product is not actually available to buy.
Ah, yeah, okay, it's all sold out already.
It's sold out already, or it's like an old style or something that's not even on the website anymore. And they've tricked you into going to their website because.
They're tricky people.
Do you know that?
Yeah? I do know that.
Now I put your people of it.
Oh my god. I get really annoyed at people who walking walking, walking, walking walking, and then as soon as they get the escalator, they stand still.
Escalators. I'm not for this is a Jerry Signfeld joke, but I'm not going to say right, but like he does a bit about it, the escalators are not just to stand on and be carried down just to make it.
Faster and easier. And also at the airport when the travelator the people stand on them.
It's not for a lift. It's not for a lift to the other end. It's just so you can get there faster, but.
It's really annoying, like the trains in Melbourne, like when you're trying to get to the train quickly or out of the train station quickly.
And rest escalator.
It's like peak our standing for what do you hope to achieve by all of this?
You can stand in a lift. I'll give you that.
It is hard to walk up a lift, have a rest.
It's hard to walk up an elevator. But you can walk up an escalator.
And you can see their heads slowly coming up. It's so funny. Yeah, So that's my poetry. Goddamn peeve for this week. You simply must write in samit just another company dot com dot You simply must leave a voicemail. The links are below in the show notes, Love sim We.
Must follow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube a not another crime podcast. You simply must leave us a five star rating and a five star review. And Sammy must simply thank Oliver Clark for doing the music, and Tams and Hayes for doing the artwork. And we simply must say good night and good luck, Oh my god.
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