Betsy Faria

On a cold night in twoenty and eleven, in a modest Missouri home, lay the body a Betsy Faria, a loyal wife, devoted mother, and lover of life itself. She had been stabbed more than fifty times, later determined as fifty six. Many of these wounds inflicted post mortem a frenzied violent attack. All signs pointed to her husband, Russ, who was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison.

We've given away the ending, or but you the true.

Story wouldn't be uncovered for years after this. The story is in fact stranger than fiction. This is the case a Betsy Foraria.

Oh okay, just go.

Hey there, everybody, welcome to not Another crime podcast.

I'm Georgia Lowe.

I'm Sammy Peterson.

I'm a journalist.

I am not. But I'll tell you what if you want to skip ahead and just listen to the story, the time code is below in the show notes. Gee, love, how the heck are you?

I am good?

Oh goodness, your new new season of your podcast, Everyone has an X launch Today podcast.

Thank you very much. Yes. The day of recording this episode one of season eight of Everyone Has an X is out. Yeah, so it's all happening the next ten weeks.

So good. It's a great first episode.

Oh, thanks to you much.

I loved it so good. Yeah, so interesting. I love that, really really good story. It doesn't go in a way that you expect, that's right.

We like a twist, so yeah. I mean, I've banged on about it on here before, but if anyone hasn't heard or wants to just hear it again. It's a documentary style podcast, so every episode is a standalone story where it is somebody telling their story about an X. So sometimes they have stories about the breakup, about who the X is, or has become traumatic thing that happened, a funny thing that happened, anything involving an egg, and I narrate little bits throughout.

It's so good. It's like a proper documentary. It's so good, very well, very well done, and highly recommend it. And I'll say right now as well. A new episode of my other podcast, Confessions, which has come back is every month it's come out with Christi Will and Brown and Emily Tanya on this podcast. I see on this podcast before it was Genevieve Morrison, Christi Will and Brown. I lied, I told a fibb. Genevieve pulled out and guess who's

It is such a great episode.

Oh my god. Okay, it's just that it's fun. Okay, it's parenting.

Boys will be boys.

We'll be boys.

Yeah, that episode. Christy and Emily together are so funny.

So funny, so I love they're so good together. I'm recording another one this weekend with a great Gareth Reynolds, which will be lots of fun over over on the lines. I don't know how he's saying it, but zoom dot com or something with that intwebs and during the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, if you're around, I'm doing two live shows, one with Christopher Hall, Reuben Kate and Nick Cody and the other one Myth Warhurst, Joel Creasy and Will Anderson.

You've got some good friends.

Yeah, and I'll tell you what. Thank you everyone for all the wonderful comments about my back this week. I've had so many lovely people checking in about my back. I've only had to cancel like two gigs but I have canceled two gigs because of my back, and it's been kind of an interesting time because I've been fascinated

It might be you know, like an American.

We're talking about the Grinch.

And the mask and.

I'm not green thing, but I am. I've always been a big fan of Jim Carrey, and he's had a time away from the spotlight, and it is so funny to watch people. There's been like people has a mask been made?

A drag queen came out and said that was me in costume. And this drag queen has done like full blown like impersonator stuff before where like they've looked like completely looked like someone else. But that has been dispelled, Yes, I believe.

And the thing about Jim Carrey is as well as Jim Curry or whatever the Grench is that John Jim Currah. The thing about John Currah he always has been a bit outside the box, see in his thinking and everything. And there's a film called Man on the Moon, which I think is his best film. He is so good in it. And in the film he plays an old comedian it's a true story and Hoffman but in the film he went kind of mad becoming the character and just became Andy Kaufman for a long time. And and

If he's kind of done it on purpose to people, Well, when I first heard people saying, Oh, it's not him, it's impersonator, it's a clone or something. I was like, he's just had work and like we just don't see much anymore. The two things I find strangers that his eye color is completely different, yes, yep.

And piercing brown eyes.

Yes, yes, piercing brown as they say, as the old brown eye, your brown eye.

Oh yes, looking in.

Your big brown Ah. That's yucky. Sorry if you think about it like that. And the way he's speaking is very kind of over the top Jim Carey, yes, which can feel like it's someone impersonating him, but yeah, I wonder if that's him, do it as almost alrighty?

Then it's a lot of like yeah. And there's a really funny woman on on TikTok that looks like Jim Carrey and she is so funny about it and leans into that, leans into it so much. It's so funny to find out what her name is, and I'll try and find it because it's so so funny. But I would also like to say, apart from all the Jim Carey stuff, at a very funny moment that happened at work today, yes, where I've had a really busy week at work means working a lot of late nights and everything.

Is this bonds. I have to say non non spon.

Con And all you have to do is you type in rewrite this to forty words, right, That's all you have to write. Right. So I was doing this and I was going, oh shit, okay, rewrite that to four words, right, And I was just doing it all day. Is like filling out all this stuff, going ok shit, I've got to do that. I got to do that. To do that, co pilot looks quite similar to teams. So I messaged one of the directors of the companies and wrote, rewrite this and then pasted this stuff. He sent it back.

It and it's not even like, hey, so and so, could you please do you have time to rewrite this?

Oh my god to one of the directors of the company and he goes, hey, Sammy, of course, and he wrote it back and he sent it to me. That's some big rewrite this, that's what I don't have anything better to do.

Some BD from you.

It was very good and it's like you've just.

Said, you've just made it to rewrite that Is that going to change the way you.

I'm wide yes, everyone, because you're always very story this year take them on the store this week.

This year, I'll do all the stories.

Okay, okay, forty words and forty words or less. Please. That was a fun little thing that happened this week. Powerful. I did feel very power, felt very beautiful as well.

You look beautiful as well, so I'm glad you feel it.

Yeah, I feel that.

Is it that detail you have on your mirror that says, girl, you look amazing?

Yes? Yes, And it's got the clicks that automate. Yeah, yeah, that's well just click click.

You know.

I have tried to find a door bell that does the hell oh yeah perform. It doesn't seem to exist on the interweb, which I find strange. So if anyone has found one who knows how to invent them, please.

Let me know. Yeah. Has your week been You've been good?

Yes, it has been good. It's been a big week in the media.

World in Australia.

We did just talk about that.

In Melbourne recently. Jim Carrey got mistake.

No, I you know, I work in radio and.

The if.

You well, I think they're no. Yeah, if you're start interrupting me.

The biggest media deal ever made in Australia was to a radio duo called Kyle and JACKIEO who have been working together as a radio duo for twenty.

Seven years, a long time, and two years ago they signed a reported two hundred million dollar ten year contracts, so ten million dollars each every year for ten years. Well that's all gone to shit because they've had.

It just wild after twenty seven years wild.

They've don't need to go into the details here, you can google it if you want, but they had they've had a falling out and the show has split and right now in the middle of kind of working out what they do if either of them or both of them stay at the network or but they're not a duo any longer. So I thought our dear listeners could help us tissue great idea for Georgia and Sammy in the mornings.

In the morning. Yeah, I think they should be the new Wrecky duo is great. I can say some shocking things and you can go you can't say that.

Yes, yet, very similar to what they have done for twenty seven years. That's good and you are a real.

Shock job shock and I love to shock whatever that That sounds a bit like I'm sure about that food. Yeah that is interesting, Okay, Yeah, I'm fascinated by that, and I want to know all the details as they unfurl, because we have had they've just been around for so long. Yeah, you will never expect.

Nineteen ninety nine they first started.

Yeah, who are you know? Alleged like that? The show is quite it can be quite vile and everything it can be. It is very shocking. So it is really interesting after twenty seven years to have a fallout. I think that is fascinating. So we will do it, and we will do it for one hundred million dollars for exactly slashing the price.

Literally half price.

That is a good five million year each. Yes, Oh, by dig something nice. Don't worry about that. You get another big bed.

Another big bed.

I don't mind.

I had, you know, like Facebook, you get like timu ads and something it thinks you want to buy it came up with a huge, huge, huge, big, like like the dog bed you've got for Dick, but bigger and with one half of it is like a sleeping bag, so the human can sleep in the sleeping bag and coddle the dog in the bed together.

See if I if I had five million a year, there'd be signs and that would be that would be me. I don't have my own bed anymore. I sleep with digs from him with your five million signed the check and I go, I'll be on. I don't worry about me. HeiG, are you ready for the story this? I am.

You're doing another one.

For one for you, But I want to say, real damn quick, if you could share this podcast with a friend, that would help us so bloody much. What'll we do on the mail bag at the end where you can write to us? Yes, Sammy at just Another company dot com dot au. If you're a write to us.

You can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Not Another Crime Podcast. You can watch our episodes on YouTube. Hey follow us there as well. Not Another Crime Podcast, And please do follow us on your favorite podcast app, and please leave a five star rating, and please leave a lovely review and what pleased to as your friend?

And you know what, girlfriend? You can also send us a voicemail that is called a speak live and the link is below. Everything you need is in the show notes and more and more. Maybe there's a Jim Carey look alike. That's a woman in there. Now. I don't know. I can't look into the future like that I can, and what's there? I refuse to tell you, oh my god,

Yes, and the experience.

And if you don't already know this episode, it is the story. Oh well, yeah, if you don't already know this story, it is a bloody doo.

A bloody do, a bloody enjoy.

Sometimes reality doesn't just imitate fiction, it outshines it, twisting in ways that no novelist could invent. The story of Betsy Faria begins in such a place, a quiet Midwestern town where neighbors wave polightly across the white picket fences, where life moves slowly, measured by the rhythm of work, church and family dinners. But Beneath that serene surface, a mystery was brewing, one that would confound investigators, divide a community,

But sometimes fiction is also strained, like Stuart Little, because if you think about that a small mouse being in a human orphanage and being chosen to be adopted by human parents in the stead.

O, that's also an odd story.

I'm not saying, is this one weirder than that?

Weirder than that?

Okay, we'll see.

It implies that reality has produced coincidences, ironies, or occurrences that exceeded the inventiveness or believability of fiction, often heightening the unexpected, surreal or paradoxical nature of actual experience. For police investigating this crime, it seemed like a perfectly open and shutcase, and you'd hardly blame them for thinking that. Not surprisingly, a frenzied crime is committed by someone the

Yeah.

They always say it's like kind of a robbery gone wrong or something, So never like that, because these frenzies and attacks come from like passion.

Passion, Yeah, and it drives them. They're obviously thinking about it, or it's just an outburst or something. Now, there was no sign of forced entry, no robbery, no obvious motive that made sense. Sounds like the husband, Yeah, exactly, Within hours, police zeroed in on the person who should have been grieving her most, her husband, Russ. The story seems simple, too simple. Russ Freer was convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

I mean, were there any are you going to go into it? They're like what they said the mitigating factors were?

Or well yeah they out there? Yeah? Sorry? The case was declared closed. But did the wrong person go away for the crime. Betsy Freer's story was far from over, because years later, as cracks began to appear in the conviction, investigators would uncover a trail of life manipulation and another dead body, Oh my god, one that suggested Betsy's murder was not a tragic crime of passion, but the first move in something far darker. And the question everyone would

I don't think so well.

I I a friend of the pot and Lovely listener. Ash told me about this one and I have been hooked by it. There is a TV show where in asl Wiga plays a hip part in this Okay, yes, absolutely, fascinating.

That's all I've heard about, like I know that she did a like a dramatized version of the story.

Betsy Freer was born on March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty nine, and from the beginning, she was kind of the person who made you feel like you mad it. She had the ability to make you feel like you were the only person in their world, kind of like Diggs right now, really cuddling. Oh shit, are you okay?

Now? If you keep that in, I do apologize to the listener for screaming the F word into the microphone. Dis is having a very cute cuddle and whacked his hand up into my glass of red wine. And that, Sammy, is why we should always be drinking jam.

That's right, correct. So we're talking about Betsy Afrea. So from the beginning, she was the kind of person who made you feel like you mad it. She had the ability to make you feel like you were the only person in their world and leave the room brighter than it was before.

How beautiful.

She was the absolute party starter, showing up to every single celebration and would often be the person organizing the event. Her laugh was loud and her humor was quick, Betsy never met a stranger in her life. Betsy lived with her husband Russ in Troy, Missouri, Troy, Troy, Yeah, and her two teenage daughters, Leah and Maria from a previous marriage. Life was simple and it was full by the day.

Out, Queen.

They just clicked the first state was it a casino. Russ was a quiet guy who kept to himself and loved the tech side of things. Instead, he'd help Betsy with her playlists and running the party Starters. Betsy was the one who remembered birthdays, planned surprises, and showed up when it mattered. When Betsy was diagnosed with breast cancer in twenty ten, she stayed that way completely. She didn't want to be treated any differently and didn't want to

What a cool boarder?

Nice just just sitting back playing board games.

We should bring back board game nights.

Absolutely yeah. Your friend Bam always tries to bring out a board game anywhere we are.

No, not a board game. She brings out these like weird question games like cards and stuff.

Yeah, An ordered pizza, right, So Russ left around nine pm, stopped at Arby's, where the receipt was timestamped at nine h nine pm. When he arrived home at around nine forty pm, something felt really off. The lights were off, the front door was unlocked, and everything was eerily quiet. When he walked into the house, the worst fears were confirmed. There was Betsy lying dead on.

The living Yeah, oh god, how awful.

He thought. He kind of thought at first she must have fallen, but there was blood everywhere, smeared along the walls and all over the carpet. A knife was still in her neck. Oh god. Her arms and wrists were covered in defensive wounds. Russ called nine one one, his voice trembling. He was sobbing and gasping, stumbling over his words. At one point in the nine one one call, he stated that he thought that Betsy might have actually killed herself,

I mean, look, devil's adver could hear? I don't think that you would like look really deeply at the body of her.

Feel like you've been in such a days as well of coming home and seeing your loved one like that.

Yeah, but yeah, a knife in the neck is yeah.

They're not common, No, I wouldn't think. Yeah. When first responders arrived just before ten pm, they walked into the scene of staggering violence. Officer Christiopher Hollingsworth was one of the first on the scene. I think it's a great name, isn't it. Betsy's body was near the couch. Her limbs were twisted in unnatural ways, covered in blood. Oh dear, she had been stabbed what they thought at the time fifty five times, wounds to her chest, arms, neck, and head.

Oh my god.

Blood covered the floor, the walls, and saturated her clothing. The attack was frenzied and very personal. Russ was barefoot in the kitchen when the officers arrived, still on the phone to nine one one, rambling and visibly shaken. To some of the officers, it looked like he was faking it. One of the officers said that they thought he was putting on a bit of a show. But it was unbelievable. There were details that raised immediate suspicions. There were no

I don't know what time it's happened, though.

I know, I know, but like a dog would kind of probably be outside or I don't know if they would be around. I don't know. There's something weird about I'm betten to be a dog expert. Rustle slippers were placed neatly nearby, completely clean. That doesn't look good odd considering the amount of blood pulled across the floor. Did he take the shoes off when he was walking into

Yeah when you said he was barefoot, that would make me immediately go, yeah, yeah, stumbled across that called name on one and then just taking your shoes off, Like why would your mind even be there?

It did seem a little bit strange. Russ was fully cooperative. He let officers take his phone and close without resistance. He also agreed to take a polygraph test, but as a night wore on, the shift focused from Russ as grieving husband to prime suspect. Russ's clothes were clean. This led investigators to believe he staged the scene. Well he wasn't there or yeah.

Yeah, no, they didn't think that. That's the thing, like, obviously that's why his clothes were clean.

Or it wasn't there. I think what they meant is even if he kind of leaned over her body or something or walked through the walls of blood, there would have been some blad.

I'm thinking you would do that if you found your wife, like yeah, for surely you'd go to grab might Yeah.

Yeah, So it just seemed really suspicious. The slippers and that seemed a bit odd. And they thought that the nine one one call, which won't play in this but you can look it up if you want it is yeah, it's awful, and yeah, and they thought that he was kind of being really over the top.

Isn't it funny though, I'm saying, like the reactions I'm having are because you've said he was I know, I know it wasn't him, But if I didn't know that I'd be going, Oh, yes.

It's always the husband, which is which is the thing here?

Now, of course it's not always the yes, but that's always the first person.

Always the first person. Yeah, So he took a polygraph and he failed. They suggested that maybe he blacked out, perhaps he had snapped and just didn't remember. Russ denied this and walked them through his timeline once again. Prosecutors would later argue that Russ had returned home after spending the evening with friends, got into an argument with Betsy,

Oh my god, hang on, and.

Would happen and what would kind of happen to her daughters if anything happened to her?

Oh?

Pam told authorities that Betsy had confided in her that she was actually afraid of Russ and that things at home had been extremely tense. Pam's descriptions had confirmed what authorities had already been thinking, Especially between Russ's nine one one call odd inconsistent comments he was making and the frenzied murder singe with clean clothes and slippers, it seemed sadly like this was an open and shut domestic violence

And I mean the friend Pam's.

Saying, she scared alive and she.

Was scared of him. I mean again, if I didn't know it wasn't him, I'd.

Be going, I know, I know.

Yeah, it's so scary, though, isn't it like so scared? Maybe there are lots of others, people who wrongly convicted that we've been like, ah.

I know, I know, yeah. Yeah. They also brought him. Witnesses to a test that Russ drank too much sometimes and that the couple often argued it was nothing too extreme, but just enough to paint the picture of the tension at home. It's kind of what prosecutors want to do, you know, they want to go there was tension. Are we saying beyond reasonable doubt? You know, like it's all of that. Yeah. One of Betsy's friends stated that Betsy had once told her that she was afraid of Russ

I also feel like, if it was planted, wouldn't you make the time closer to the time of death, because didn't you say did you say time?

No?

No? Sorry, you said he got home about half an hour after the Arby's received. Yes, yeah, do we know the time of death yet?

Is that no? No?

No?

Yeah, but it was somewhere between that time they think gorgeous earlier than that. Yeah. The prosecution did not have to prove a motive and did not have to have physical evidence linking Russ to the crime. Circumstantial evidence alone would be enough to put him away. The polygraph was also brought in as evidence.

And the jury they were allowed to do.

Yeah, well, apparently it was here and the jury were told that Russ had in fact failed. The defense felt that authorities had locked in on Russ too quickly and ignored other leads. They also argued that the scene had been tampered with, but this didn't gain any traction, and after one war there was a verdict. It only took four hours of deliberation. Russ was found guilty. The trial was only a week yeah hell. Russ was found guilty

How what a stressful situation to feel like you, as a member of the public, not an authority of any time, you feel like you have to do the police work for them.

Because they're not that. I think that, you know a lot of the time. I think it's like if they had their victim, so they have their if they have their suspect and everything everything matches.

I mean, well, of course, yeah, of course they're not doing it. Yeah, it's not even I'm not even the authorities. They they're gonna like they.

Believe that it is exactly exactly.

I mean, like for her sitting there going, well, I'm going to have to do this myself. Then the stress.

In twenty fourteen, the case called the attention of Dateline. Dateline often called Dateline NBC, is a long running American television news magazine and true crime show that focuses primarily on real life criminal investigations, mysterious deaths, and courtroom drama.

Why is it called Dateline.

Do you know, I don't know why it's called Dateline. No. Oh, maybe I should have looked that up. But maybe we can do it in a fact check. We always do fact shick.

You sit that like its a fun segment.

Everyone will look forward to that fact check moment. Each episode typically explores one or two cases in depth, using interviews, police footage, reenactments, archival video, and narration to reconstruct what happened and how the case unfolded. The show is especially known for its slow burned storytelling, plot twists, and attention to the psychology and motives of the people involved. Since its debut in nineteen ninety two on NBC Yeah, Dateline

I recognized the name and nationally.

Recognized attorney for overturning wrongful convictions. So there are some reports that Joel Schwartz being Russ's attorney, but only a couple actually mentioned Kathleen, And I don't know. Maybe I'm going to tell you who she is.

I picked up my phone to google for you.

When you find out who she is, But I don't know if she was maybe just an advisor and it's not on her record of what she did. But you know, if you actually know the truth of this, and if you know if it was this Kathleen Zelna, please do right in because Kathleen T. Zelner is an American attorney based in Illinois, best known for her work on wrongful conviction cases, civil rights litigation, medical medical malpractice suits, and

For I wanted to get I know that, I know it. Can you give me a hint?

I want to guess that very popular, a very popular TV show was made about this crime.

Oh making him up? Ye, guess that there are not many better feelings in the world. I mean, that's that's not quite to this, but like the best feeling in the world is when there's something on the tip of your tongue I can't remember and then it just comes to you.

I think it's funny to ma like that, like you don't actually know the words for it.

So ra.

So the song, listen to whatever. So like Stephen every the Netflix documentary where she worked on post conviction challenges to his conviction, and she is actually in the second series of that as well, quite heavily.

I'm going to do that story soon.

Yep. Yeah. So even if look, even if it's not her that actually even it's not her up, she's great and I want to talk about her.

I'd like to talk as well. I'd like to give a shout out to zac Efron, just like to talk about him.

Sure, thank you for bringing him up as well. Zeena has represented other notable wrongful conviction clients like Kevin Fox and Ryan Ferguson winning their exonerations and all civil rights verdicts. Her legal work has been featured on television documentaries, and she's received national awards for her advocacy, such as the American Bar Association's Pursuit of Justice Award. In twenty twenty two, Zeona served as a consultant to Johnny Depp on the

Let's do Johnny Depenhamer herd as a Thursday trait as well. Real, that's me furious, but we should talk about it.

It will. So the two started building a broader appeal. These are the two attorneys, whether it's them or not, not just to argue that Russ was innocent, but began laying out the evidence that would then point to someone else.

That's the thing as well, if there seems to be enough evidence to convict someone, there was enough evidence to convict someone, they did convict someone. It's you often look at it. It's like it's not enough to just say nobody didn't do it.

Yeah.

Yeah, if you can say, but this person did, you're way more.

Like exactly you know, well, was it somebody that they already knew? Yes, it was the very person that dropped Betsy.

Off hap No, it wasn't.

In fact, shortly before Betsy's death, Betsy had changed her beneficiary to her friend Pam Sammy What who insisted that she was just trying to help her dear friend.

What did you just drop out of nowhere? Just quietly? It was Pam What.

So let me ask you this question.

They ask you it is son.

Who the fuck is Pam?

How the fuck is Pam hap?

Who the fuck is Pam?

How the fuck is Pam hap Pa?

A cool song? It does?

Who the fuck is Pam?

Got any single songwriters? Please do?

I'm writing it and singing it now?

Good?

Good? Fuck is Pam.

Hop you're a real lyricist.

You're about to tell me. You're about to tell me soother Digs is also a.

Pop like that. Yeah, it'd be very good in the Pam up song if Diggs came up for no reason?

Who?

Yes, a Pam Hup was born Pamela Marine Newman or.

Can I just say I'm not. I'm not currently signed to any record labels, so I'm available if anyone listening is interested. A.

Pam Hup was born Pamela Marine Newman on October tenth, nineteen fifty nine, nineteen fifty eight, in Dalwood, Missouri, a working class suburb just north of Saint Louis. She was the third of four kids in a devout Catholic family. Her dad worked for an electricity company while her mum worked as a school teacher. She had a pretty stand the upbringing. She went to Riverview Gardens High School, where she was where she was a cheerleader. People described her

Occasionally funny.

That's the best way described I find of her. Was she just occasionally funny. No one ever said it funny. In her senior year, Pam fell pregnant. She married her boyfriend shortly after graduation. The marriage only lasted a few years before they were divorced. Eventually, Pam married Markup, a.

Farmer cup Markup that's a made up name.

A former minor moe.

You're saying, like, whose cup is that?

That's Mark, that's my cup, a former minor league baseball player turned carpenter. They had a son together and lived in Florida for a short time before moving back to Missouri and settled in a town near Saint Louis. They bought a modest home and flipped houses on the side. That's pretty heavy.

He been strong.

Pam worked a series of administration assistant jobs. She worked at State Farm Insurance for a short time. Some of her past coworkers described her as competent. I've got a lot of a lot of compliments, competent and organized, while others thought she was defensing a defense defensive, not good at defensing, domineering, and prone to exaggeration.

I would put money on that she Oh wait, no, you said her. What was her birthday?

Nineteen fifty eight?

Do you remember that? It was October or something, wasn't it?

Yeah, it was October.

I was going to say she's a virgo. They're saying she's organized the right way. She's also defensive, saying that, dear listener, because I will kill you with it, and I will kill you. Oh my god, Oh my God, I'm not going to kill anyone, and I was forgetting we are talking about a murderer. That's not funny. Sorry.

So she was actually let go after she was caught forging signatures for the insurance place. Over the years Pam she made some pretty big claims that she had a high level security clearance and ties to the FBI. None of this was true. By twenty ten, she was claiming disability for chronic pain and stopped working full time. She was known for being incredibly frugal, almost to the point of obsession. She would find anything to flip for a profit.

You got him a toy chimkin for his birthday that he hasn't really cared about, and it was just up on the TV cabinet. He just walked over, quietly, picked it up, and brought it over to his bed. It's very good. I am concentrating on you though, I mean, I promise to.

People on the outside. Pam looked like a very good friend to Betsy after her diagnosis. As investigators began to dig deeper, Pam's rule began to look very different and truly disturbing. In February twenty fifteen, the Missouri Court of Appeals overturned Russell's conviction because all this the court side of major legal errors. Sorry, including evidence. Sorry, this is why I got this fixed up, including excluding evidence they had that could have pointed to another suspect. Oh wow, Yeah.

Okay, so they don't. The courts don't know yet that it's Pam.

No, but they're saying they.

He's got an appeal and an overturn conviction because his appeals lawyer has gone, there was evidence that you didn't include in the trial. How was that I get an appeal?

Cut?

Like when Peel's lawyer to say that, like were his lawyers in the first place.

Shit, Yeah, they must have been, or that there was just enough evidence they thought circumstanced. They couldn't point it to someone else at the time, so I guess they just went, oh, it's definitely this person, it's in it like, and the jury ate it up.

This doesn't feel like a groundbreaking thing to say, but I feel like all evidence available should always be put before the court.

Correct. Correct?

I agree with are crazy to say that?

That's not crazy to say at all.

Thank you for saying that.

At the retrial in November twenty fifteen, there was a very different version of events told in a new trial. The jury learned that Betsy had changed the beneficiary to a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance policy to none other than Pam Up just four days before her death. Four days before days.

It was so stupid. You hear this so often that days or like two weeks after changing the bed, there all of a sudden, disious circumstances that.

Is so obvious, so obvious, she had removed Russ and added Pam. There was no formal documentation.

Sorry, I'm going to now immediately go back on what I just said. Perhaps they have looked at that and that that was a smoking gun for them to go. She's removed him from the life ahead of him because exactly.

There were no formal documentation to indicate why, and there was no indication that Betsy's daughters were going to receive any of that money.

Which seems yeah, sorry, I'm fullipping.

And the defense introduced this as a financial motive, an evidence that she had kept from the jurors the first time around. H that had been kept, she had kept. There was also evidence of shifting statements from Pam. At one point she claimed that she never entered Betsy's house, and another time she said that she did. Pam declined to testify at the set trial her Fifth Amendment right

Left, sorry, mobile p taw pings did place her there long after she said she left. Yeah, Oh my god, why was this investigation? Sir Paul in the first place. Also, we say it's always the husband, but it's also always the person who saw them last year. It's like who they look at what?

Yeah, the defense laid out the full timeline that investigators never verified in the initial investigation.

Oh my god.

The first trial solely focused on Russ and not any other explanations for what had actually occurred.

Which in the trial I can understand, but the police investigation should done that.

That's right. Russ did not have blood on him, even though the murder was horrifyingly gruesome. Witnesses described Betsy's final days as hopeful, not of someone living in fear. Schwartzen's owners showed the alibi, financial records, and phone logs that have been missing from the original trial, stating that Russ's conviction had never been properly scrutinized despite his alibis. On November seventh, twenty fifteen, after just three and a half

Wow.

He walked out of the courthouse after spending four years imprisoned for a crime he did not commit, and.

A crime that would have ruined his life anyway.

Absolutely none of the officials in the original investigation faced any consequences. Jesus, but Russ did not fade away. He gave interviews, spoke out about wrongful convictions, and filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against Lincoln County and the members of law enforcements. So would I.

I'll be like, you're not keeping me down. You owe me at the very least an.

Arby's Arby's Burger. This would stretch on for years. He also spoke out about how someone's life can be dismantled from a flawed investigation and about how difficult it is to rebuild your life. Meanwhile, Pam Hupp remained out and with one hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Betty's life insurance policy.

Hold on, he's been acquitted and they haven't immediately.

Gone yeah, she continued.

Out, Okay, sorry, So I suppose the appeal trial is whether he's guilty or not. It did it suggest that it was that it was, Pam? But I don't know that feels like then they should in arrest.

Her, so she continued aud in public shopping at the same stores and going about her business while Russ now struggled day in day out without the love of his life. Less than a year later, another person would end up dead.

Oh my god, I forgot about this.

But on August sixteenth, twenty sixteen, Pam called nine to one one from her home. She told dispatches that a man had attempted to kidnap her in broad daylight. He had followed her home, jumped in her car, held a knife to her throat while threatening her family and demanding money.

Goodness, Pam has bad luck, doesn't she.

She managed to escape and collected a gun from her home and managed to shoot the man in self defense while the king in the house.

Oh, she has just kept from him. Oh, when he said and got a gun from her house, I was picturing her like running to the house. I'm knocking the door, going no, no, no. He took her into the house.

Well. While speaking with dispatches, she said that she believed she had been targeted because of the Farrier case.

So she's the victim.

Yeah. When police arrived, they found the body of thirty three year old Lewis Gumpenberger just inside the front door. He had been shot in the chest and head in close range. A knife was found nearby, and in his pocket a note written in block letters instructing Pam to drive him to a bank, withdraw Russ's money and hand it over or handed over or risk harm to her daughter. Now,

God, I'm obsessed with this, Give me more, put it into my veins.

That same morning, Pam had been spotted driving through a low income apartment complex at Saint Charles. Witnesses said that Pam was offering one thousand dollars to reenact a nine to one one call for Dateline. A maintenance worker turned her down, saying it sounded strange, and another woman turned her down to but thought it was really odd and she should probably get Pam's plates. Pam approached Lewis outside, and nearby apartment building witnesses saw him get into her car.

Fucking hell, this woman.

And the note that the instructions were on was a notepad from her kitchen counter.

Pam, you're a fucking idiot.

An idiot. The knife matched others in the drawer, and the pen news to write the note was also hers. Walmart footage was discovered that Pam that day was buying rolls of paper, towels, a notepad, and a knife, all found at the scene.

Pam, you're doing this all wrong. To hey, girl, give me a call, I'll give you some tips.

Don't give you a call.

I listen to enough, I engage enough to crime.

I've got some tips. After shopping Pam dumped the packaging and receipt into a public trash can. Pam had scratches on her wrist, while she later admitted were self inflicted, to prove that there was a struggle. Pam wanted to shift focus from the Betsy case, and if she could show herself as a target, then all heat would be off her.

No, wouldn't, Pam. I've got news for you. You've made it a lot worse.

She planted the rant and note to imply that it could have been Russ who who sent Lewis to kill her. She implied he was hired as one of Russ's people, so.

Even though he's mad acquitted, She's like, I'm going to get him back.

Yeah, back, yeah, but I guess to get all the heat off her. That's what you.

Believed, Pam, Pam, Pam? Are you saying, Pam? Or Pan?

Pam? Come mom. A week after the death of Lewis, Pam was arrested in twenty sixteen and charged with first degree murder and armed criminal action.

For gergen Bergen or whatever Lewis.

Prosecutors announced they would seek the death penalty. But this isn't the end of Pam's story.

No, because she's got to be charged for her friends.

Yeah, right. Investigators and reports started as reporters started to look at not just the death of Betsy and Lewis, but also were there any other crimes that Pam might have convicted? Did she in fact kill someone else? Give me it, Sammy three years earlier. On the morning of October thirtieth, two thousand and thirteen.

So between Betsy and Lewis's that's.

Right, yep, staff at Lakeview Park, a retirement living facility, found the body of Shirley Newman, Pam's seventy seven year old mother. Shirley was laying on the not old at all. Shirley was laying on the grass below her third floor apartment balcony.

Don't do not dare tell me. This woman has thrown her mother out the window.

Was determined that she had fallen through the iron railings or over the iron railings sometime during the night. At the time, police ruled it as a tragic accident. Pam told investigators that her mother was confused, frail, and heavily medicated, but there were no signs this was anything more sinister. The railing was spaced closely enough that an accidental fall actually seemed really unlikely, and that she had blunt trauma which could be consistent with a fall, but no autopsy

What is going on?

And no wellness checks or anything. After Shirley's death, Pam collected nearly five hundred thousand dollars in life insurance.

Fucking okay, I have some advice to anyone and everyone out there. Hey, don't don't get me wrong. I like money as much as the next guy, often more than the next guy, I could argue. I will say categorically, no amount of money is worth murdering somebody at all.

M H.

Certainly not your friends and.

Family preach its sister, Thank you, I will. There was no physical evidence linking Pam to her mother's fall, but it showed a recurring pattern.

And guess what, Pam, If you've learned anything from Russ Pam is that there doesn't need to be any physical evidence Pam.

In November twenty seventeen, the Saint Louis Medical Examiner changed the cause of death for Shirley to undetermined. In December twenty sixteen, Pam was booked into jail for the murder of Lewis.

When she booked into jail like she's just don't know, like on booking dot com.

When she was being served with court pages, she asked to use the bathroom. Minutes later, officers found her bleeding on the floor. Ah, she had stabbed herself in the wrists and neck with a pen. Minutes later, officers found her bleeding on the floor. Ah, she had stabbed herself in the wrists and neck with a pen.

Oh my god.

She's revived her alternity story. Her attorneys argued she was unfit to stand trial, but after psychological evaluation, she was deemed fit good. By early twenty eighteen, court proceedings resumed. Pam was facing the possibility of a public trial and a death sentence. In June twenty nineteen, Pam changed her plea. She ended she entered an alpha plea, meaning that she did not admit guilt, but acknowledge that the evidence against her would likely lead to a conviction.

We don't have that in Australia. And it's interesting with that, No, it's interesting.

It is interesting though, but it's not it's stupid.

It's stupid. Yeah, because the whole point is, and well, you know what, we kinda have it in Australia.

Yeah, we don't.

But you're allowed to plead guilty without actually giving details. And I really disagree with that. Let's do the story of bors Rostevski at some point. That is an example in Australia where a husband was charged with his wife's murder. He was not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, not guilty, and then at the eleventh hour he said, all right, I'll not I'll plead guilty to manslaughter.

Ah.

And they went, oh, look there's not a lot of evidence. We don't know if we're going to get a conviction or not, so we'll take the guilty pleader manslaughter, right, okay. But he didn't ever have to actually say this is what happened and these are the facts. He just said, I'm pleading guilty, yet what's my sentence? And of course, because it's mans not murder, he didn't get very long. Wow, I'll do that story soon.

You just ruined it.

No, I didn't, because I haven't told you about what actually happened.

The court accepted the play, and Pam was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, but avoiding the death penalty and a trial. But what about Betsy's murder? No one had been held accountable, so this is just for Lewis Ewis. Yes. In twenty twenty, newly elected Lincoln Prosecutor Mike would announce that the case would be reopened in July two thousand and one, nearly a decade to the day of Betsy's murder. Pam Hup because that is

Why did it take that long?

It's insane, isn't it.

Pam rass as well, I know, because he's still going like he's been acquitted, but he's still going through life. And also her daughters going, hello, someone killed our wife.

Yeah, and probably their feelings towards Russ as well during that time, going, oh my god, our dad is yeah. Pam killed Betsy in order to collect the life insurance policy and stage the scene to make it look like a domestic attack, and allowed Russ to go away for

So sorry if anyone is questioning why I went, oh, because if maybe you're listening to this yump down the track yeap at the time of recording, exactly months months away from August.

And we're going to have got a date in my diary to look this back up who Pam Hupp's legal team has been finding over DNA evidence they say might support her innocence in the Betsy Farier case, seeking access to samples they argue could point away from her, though prosecutors dispute that interpretation.

I don't believe.

A former crime scene investigator named Michael Merkle stop it has. Michael Merkle I love It has been charged with two counts of perjury related to testimony he gave in the original twenty thirteen murder trial of Russ. Prosecutors allege that Merkle lied under oath about who Merkle? What's his for? Name? Michael Merkle.

Ah.

The prosecutors alleged that Merkele lied under oath about critical crime scene evidence, specifically luminescent blood testing. Merkle testified that photos Aiken using a product called bluster used to detect traces of blood, showed absolutely nothing because of his supposed camera malfunction. Court records later showed that most of the evidence most of the evidence photos did show signs of luminescence, meaning blood traces were visible when enhanced, contradicting Merkle's testimony.

How are there so many people giving like who are meant to be experts giving false evidence?

Like what's going on? What's your job? His testimony helped support the prosecution's narrative in Russ Free's twenty thirteen trial, where he was convicted of killing his wife, a conviction that was later overturned. The perjury chargers argue that Michael Merkle's statements may have misled the court and contributed to Russ's wrongful imprisonment. Perjury in a murder case is a Class A felony in Missouri with no statute of limitations.

Yeah, I had to tell you, Missouri court justice system, You've already got a couple of question monks. I'm not just blaming Michael.

Merkle, bro you would never Prosecutors have indicated they are seeking the death penalty in the Betsy for Reer case because of the brutal nature of the crime.

I thought it meant death penalty for Michael.

The meaning. The stakes are extremely high. Because of the publicity and complexity, the trial will likely be closely watched by true crime audiences, legal analysts, and national media. Similar to other high profile murder trials, defense attorneys will probably push hard to reinterpret or reframe existing evidence. How jurors respond to competing theirs about the physical evidence could be decisive. Russ called the charges a relief, long overdue but meaningful.

Those poor girls women.

So there's more to come. In the case of Pam Hup, there is a pretty bad series made about it called The Thing About Pam.

Yes terrible.

Yeah, with Renasy as Pam. It's absolutely fine, I would say serviceable, but there's a very strange narrator over the whole thing that gives it a Christmasy alf kind of vibe over the whole thing. It's quite cartoonish and colorful in the way they tell the story. And I didn't

Hup alleged awful is committed of Cales.

Wow. What Wow?

I loved that. Yeah, it's I'm surprised as well when it's like, all, yeah, I'm going to do a quick google of what they look like. I like to picture people like that.

Yeah, it's really it's a really interesting case. And also with the you know, the trial coming up, it's going to be really interesting to watch that as it happens. Yeah, and you know, pam is h Up, but yeah, it's really Oh my god.

She looks like a totally run of the mill, like kind of later middle aged American woman.

Yeah. And she was, you know, devout Catholic growing up, like oh yeah, yeah, there was no like talk of what turned her into this person, you know, growing up, like would you I found really interesting as well, like, yeah, it just seemed like all of a sudden she became really obsessed with getting money, and you know if she did your mum as well.

So oh god, the pictures of her name as her a shock, yeah, a very bad fat sit on. Sorry. The reason I went oh because.

I was like, what is going on?

Why she got a weir collar on in her mug shots. No, there are big patches over her neck because where she stabbed herself with the pin.

Yeah.

Yeah, oh she looks a bit like your old neighbor. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll never know who were talking.

No, exactly if.

You've lived near Sam, we're not talking about I've never got you, Sam. No, You've rewired my brain with this pam hup story. I'm excited. Yeah, oh okay, I'm really into this. Is this Betsy your picture here? That that one? Yeah, I want to see what rust looks like to you. Sorry, this is really good listening for you guys. Just while I google some things. What was Russa's center, please russ free it was. I didn't know. It's twenty twenty six.

I didn't, you didn't.

Okay, I'll just keep googling and we'll sit in silence. Oh, Russ doesn't look like what I pictured. Russ looks like a kind of I don't know, like a someone that works at an Italian restaurant.

Oh okay, that's interesting.

Anyway, this is good. I'm sniffing in the microphone.

Let's finish.

It's going well. Sorry, but yeah, and.

A really interesting story. I found that really interesting. That's fascinating.

Wow it is.

Yes, yep, thank you.

Yes, it is a stranger than Stuart Little. You were right much much much. I just a mind blown by the fact that they did not properly clear the last person to see bets your life. I know, I know, like that's just that is an administrative thing that you do. Hey, Pam, we know you dropped off. We've just got to clear you of everything. Can you show us any evidence of what time you got home? We just need to be able to check.

That off as just a blind focus.

On and the death benefit has been changed, so we're just going to make sure because I you know that that could look like, oh oops, you had something. We're just going to make sure you didn't, okay, and then we can clear your name. They don't seem to have done that at all.

No, the death beneficiary, did you say death benefit?

The benefit of death on Pam's bank account?

Yes, okay.

I can change almost anything I say to make it sound like I was correct.

Okay, Okay, very good girl.

Anyway, I loved that, Sammy.

I thought it was a really interesting story for this week. And I don't wether watching the series, but it's really it is really interesting that this case will be going to trial.

Yes, and I will not soon forget the name Michael Merkle, and thank you for bringing that into my mind. I like it.

We'll be back with a mail bag very soon.

Everybody, Thank you. And it's the mail bag. It's the mail bag. I've decided to write a jingle for the mail bag.

I loved that. That was beautiful. That was Coldplay there. If you don't know co Play the band ready for This is our first beautiful voicemail for today. Do you like? Well, you're not only going to like this voicemail, but I know that you are gonna bloody lover. I haven't listened to it, but I think you'll recognize the voice. Right away.

Hey, guys, did you number one fair Marina Pryor convictions joke sits your number one friend?

Friend Georgia loves friend and Sammy Peterson's trenmy.

Oh all away from the Sunshine State Rusa.

Georgia loves Dismay. I'll be honest.

Look, I'm just.

Calling to let you know, first of all, fucking killing the game.

As you know, I'm an avid true crime listener, watcher reader. I love it all and you guys are fucking nailing it.

I love the pod so much, not coming from a bias standpoint.

Not my friend of me love it.

Mostly. I'm calling on behalf of all the friends here. Sorry, all the fans. We're protesting in the streets. We are demanding some horrendous and harrowing merch.

The people have spoken spoken.

I really would love a mark that on one side says what and on the other side says, what do you mean.

An episode?

That's how he tells a.

Story, and you know what's not bad about it?

Actually?

What do you mean?

I love it?

I love you. That's great. I would also love her mug that says what fuck off on the back. And then also, magistrate, I am and also TikTok.

Book talk stairs actually want merch, that.

Would be my love. We would love sorry offering me. Okay, that's interesting, I love that.

Oh my god, tell us if you actually would.

Yeah.

Franny and Sammy are frenemies. Yes, because Frannie moved into state very soon after you and I became really good friends.

Yeah, okay, yeah, so I got to know the timeline. I'm sorry.

Well, no, I think that's why. That's why it's become a frenemy situation, because then when Frannie moved into State, she was like, well, hang on, who is this new best friend you're talking about? Who is this person? And she loves our podcast so much that it's actually to her chagrin that she does because she didn't want to like you, because she's deafly jealous.

Definitely jealous. It's great. We love that, We love you. Thank you for leaving us a beautiful voicemail. We're gonna have to look into merch and also one day a goddamn live show. Yeah, this is the next voicemail.

I am reaching out from Tampa, Florida, the home of the weird and one full crimes. First of all, Sammy, so sorry to hear about your back that I have done my back in a couple of years ago, I tried Reformer Pilates changed my life. I cannot recommend it highly enough turn out of ten.

It brings your back back to do it well.

Also wanted to say, I know a lot of people say that they skip the banter in the beginning to get to the grizzly crime.

I'm not a big crime guy.

I'm actually I get quite squeamish. I don't I don't like the crimes that especially gruesome and horror and really just in general. H But I love the banter, I love the friendship, the pond reprieves, I love the digs action it. Actually sometimes I skip the crimes in the middle, from the beginning, the intro, and then I skipped all the way to the ends and the back up in the summary, which I also love, and I skipped all

Anyway, I love how did you find Because if you're not a true crime person, that is so beautiful that you found out the friendship.

You know what is great as well. So I shared on our Instagram today and our stories because one of our beautiful listeners, none of the Crime Podcast, one of our beautiful listeners, Corey, sent through to me that Tampa and this is what I thought he was going to be saying Tampa Airport, which apparently ended up being a joke, but announced that they were banning Jim Carrey, that they were banning people wearing pajamas and crocs. Yes, let's not move to Tampa. I think that is so funny that

I'd love that. Thank you. Also, Shak is so cool. I have never heard that as a name before. That is the coolest name. Shake.

That's my one of my friends who you know, I won't I won't dox him, but that's his middle name.

Really, Oh, that's cool. I think that's a great name. I love it. And also like Florida tamp It's so cool that we have someone listening all the way, like we're recording on a kind of a cold day in Melbourne right now, and it's so nice to know that there's people like in Scotland, in Glasgow listening. There's people

Him, Sammy and g Penelope here first time speak pipe and just listening to Elizabeth Smart episode and talking about going to five. I am so goddamn excited. I've actually bought myself two tickets that I might have nobody to go with. So my plan is to train up my nine year.

Old water color and shep bloody love it.

Also another little random thing for you, every time you guys speak to Sammy's Google it sends off my car twist, so I can keep listening to your podcast. I just thought that was quite funny.

I wanted to share.

But anyway, I keep doing.

What you're doing.

I love listening and chatsoo Penelope.

So I forgot to give an update on my five situation. So if you guys haven't heard the episode where we discussed this. I found in my calendar, yes that I'm going to the five concert in.

Melbourne the boy band from you.

If you're getting but I cannot remember who I'm going with. Yes, And I searched my ticket tak and Ticketmaster and I don't have the tickets. So I was like, well, this is awkward. I've said I'm going with someone, but I've forgotten who. I don't know who. The message to be like, what do I owe you for the five tickets? So I did a shout out on here thinking.

Or just saying it which friends listen is good? Yes, shake does.

And shake shakes.

Well.

I thought Penelope might have been offering to take me, but no nine year old's going. Apparently I still have not.

Discovered this is the update.

This is the update that nobody, nobody has claimed. I think what has happened is that it has been discussed in like a group chat, and I've said yeah, I'll go, and I've just put it in my calendar, and then no one's actually gone and bought the ticket, and.

You know what, it's unlikely to put something in your calendar. So I'm actually proud of you. Especially like that far in advance because you ignore.

Thing, yes, my tickets and forget to put in a calendar. I've done the absolute opposite.

Wow, that's incredible. Well it's not incredible. Incredible. Well, you've got a new friend that's going Penelope is.

Taking a daughter.

Yeah whatever, Penelope, that's even known your daughter, Penelope, Penelope. That is so cool. And I've got to did we tell that funny story about what happens with my voice activated? Do we tell that on the podcast?

When I the time that we did, but if if we did, it was ages tell it again?

No, no, you tell it. I think it's funny.

It's really funny. So Sammy was telling me a story about it. Anyway, Sammy was telling me a story about how on his other.

Podcast, Confessions Available.

In All the Affessions Available in all the apps, do you want me to use the real name?

Yeah?

Whatever, Sure, So someone who'd written in a confession was called Gemma, and so on the podcast, Sammy made a joke and said, hey, sirih call and I'm not going to do it now again the name, and then Siri tried calling his ex girlfriend the phone.

The next Holy shit, I had to pause the podcast. I had to run just to save myself because as soon as the phone rings, really it's calling two times, they get it.

Oh, they see the miscalled. But then Sam is telling me that that happened, and it did it.

Again in another room, in another room. I had to run to the other room.

And I've never seen your face drop like that. You look like you're about to vomit. And it is so much funnier that she would have got two missed calls over a couple of days.

I know, Oh my god, it was so funny anyway, So that's just a funny thing. Hey, Penelope, we bloody love you, and we love everyone that leaves us. Goddamn voicemails. How about this one? Another one that comes from Sarah.

My god, hi guys, it's Sarah Famously there. Who is you know, really good friends with Petti Flair Beringer. I was just so excited that someone wanted to talk about Real Housewives of Melbourne with me, because I could never find any other fans To answer George's question. We did break up, however, very amicable, and I agree that is a huge green flag that he remembered how much I've loved Pettiflir. No the thing is, and Sammy, I am going to correct you. It's switch Yes, I know, yes,

In the book, which is like, why not If.

I was publishing a book, I'd put some photos in there too. Now I'm just so excited about this. I've done some real boots on the ground journalism here. I have ordered the book. I am going to read it and come back to you guys. I think this is a really imp Okay, okay, okay, we must delve into deeper. I want to know what Patti Floir has to say, and I want to discuss with you guys.

Sta tuned.

Okay, So, Sarah, are two things. I looked this up the other day. It is definitely Switched the Bitch, and I completely got that wrong. She says swish the bish in some episodes, but I think she's quite tipsy in it. But okay, sorry, it's called Switch the Bitch. This is Petty flu who was a Real Housewives Melbourne. I tried to order it the other day. It is one hundred and thirty dollars. I think maybe more.

No, it was three hundred and four.

It was three hundred and forty dollars, which I think is too much for a book, even for a joke.

Sarah, really, Sarah, you got it for less than that, just seeing the look Sam and I gave each other when you.

When you border, I'm going to look it up. So I've got it here. It's sweat. I've look my late searchers Jim Carey, face and wet screening times for the latest Scream film, Switch the Bitch. Petty Flur. Petty Flour Bearringer is her name, and I just want to make sure that that is correct, because when I looked at the other day, Yeah, three hundred and forty dollars. I hope you didn't pay three hundred and forty dollars with it. And this is also used, so I'm not sure about that.

The obviously that much the only one. It's the only one available on internet. That's obviously why.

Yeah, but if Sarah's ordering one, but my formula to being the champion, my formula to being the champion of your life, not the victim, I don't know why we need her to be the champion of our lives. And then okay, so this is the this is okay. So on the back it says raw, real confronting about the authors. We know about Petty Floer. We don't need to read about this, but this is the this is the formula. Right.

We need to look into the legalities of that.

You could read. You could read a bit of.

A book I Reckon, I reckon every week.

Threw and forty dolls. You're gonna get your money's worth. And I'd also like Petti Fleur to come on the podcast and tell us what the book is about.

Yes, yes, so do I.

I just think that'd be great. Just come on and explain, just in a part of the end of an episode.

Yeah, it's not a crime, but Shake will like that episode.

Yeah. Also, yeah, and also if you do like a TikTok dance or something with her, she'd love to come. She loves doing TikTok dances. Yes, have you seen her Instagram as well?

You like lip syncing?

Yes, fantastic stuff. So anyway, it's got a three out of five rating, seven ratings. But yeah, three hundred and forty dollars or four payments of eighty five dollars if you want to if you want to get it.

Oh, if you look at it that way, yeah, jeep eighty five stree, we're about to make banking five million dollars each.

Yeah, okay, so my first purchasers.

Yes, teeming bed and switchitch to the bitch.

This comes from Rick. Hey, guys, Rick in that place called scum Thorpe in the UK. Yes, you did pronounce it right, small small steel town on east side. Anyway, still catching up, listen to the Ken McElroy story. Knew this one. There is actually a movie on this worth watching called Brian Oh sorry, in broad Daylight. It's called nineteen ninety ish and the other thing Kim Wall. Since

Thanks Rick. Look if there is anything that was clear in the Kim and I have absolutely no knowledge of summary five meters long every time.

We got this one from Olli. This is a comment on the latest episode Channe of Matthews. The class system you mentioned, which was written in law was the feudal system. Leftovers today include the king landowner's House of Lords, etc. Not written in law anymore, but very much still the vibe times and I love this one. This comes from

Yeah?

I love it.

You love it because you don't want people to wear goddamn pajamas at the airport, or.

Like the Bogan like oversized.

No, I'm a Bogan.

No, you're not.

I am a Bogan, and I am proud of being a God.

I've got nothing. I know, I don't have anything against Bogans. I'm saying, don't wear the Bogan track suit pans.

Yes, the airport. Oh god, anyway.

Oh my god, that's very funny.

Yes, very funny stuff. Tampa guys, I think this is time and you've got a great friend there. Yes, I know, I do.

Shake with me?

Oh, shake absolutely? Would? Can I tell you this right now? Fat check? Quick fact check? You know we like our fat check?

Yes?

Yes?

Why is the show dateline? Called date line Gay. The TV show date Line is named after the journalistic term for the line at the beginning of a news story that indicates the date and location where it was reported. This title reflects the show's original broader focus on investigative reporting and breaking news, highlighting its purpose of delivering detailed, location based stories.

Oh we just call that a location super or a date super dates. In Australia, that's what we call it, because a super is like yeah, when there's like the like someone's title under yes, when they came up their name, their title is called a super. So in Australia we call that a location or.

Date super not for a show.

Date super is actually a great name for maybe like a dating show.

Oh sure, but this is date super Dates, super Line, Dates super Workshop.

It's still yeah TM, the reality TV dating show Dates Super Super.

Okay, we'll leave to We forgot to leave it off. I've written a little something for the end of the podcast today.

Okay, here we go.

For decades, the elastic face of the legendary comedian, comedian and actor has been one of the most recognizable faces in Hollywood. It's stretched, twisted, and contorted through films like The mask as Dan Surer and Dumb and Dumber, becoming

I called it excess a drag queen. I didn't know if you didn't know that a drag queen or just prosthetic.

Don't know that who implied that he might have impersonated Kerry using elaborate prosthetics. The suggestion, likely intended as a stunt or a joke, only intensified the conspiracy theories the cosmetic surgery speculation. While conspiracy theories spread online, some observers proposed a more plausible explanation. Cosmetic procedure. Yeah, Several plastic surgeons interviewed by entertainment outlets suggested the actor's appearance might

A reason to believe that it is him, because we haven't.

Exactly. Perhaps the strangest element of the entire controversy is that Jim Carey is famous precisely because of how much he can manipulate his face from the rubber like contortions of the mass of the cartoonish reactions in eighth Agira. His career was built on transforming his facial expressions into surreal comedy. Decades later, the Internet briefly concluded that the face itself had become too strange to be real conclusion.

Yeah that was great fun.

Isn't that fun?

Oh?

My god?

Would you like to tell me a poetry? Pea for time?

Okay, this one came up at work the other day. So it's top of mind when people use the word bunker or the term we need to bunker down.

Yes, it's hunker down.

Yeah, yeah, bunker down is acceptably because bums down.

Then I didn't want to say that.

So bunker down has become an acceptable use because so many people said that that all means like bunker down is in like like stay inside and don't, but hunker down. Is the term? Is the correct term?

Yes?

And it was someone else at work the other day that actually said that's a pet peeve of mine, and I was like, aha, I can add it to the list of mine. But I don't want to do too many grammar ones because I just.

Bring them anyway. What's your mine is bloody? When it is I'll tell you this, I do not like the weather when it is like it's it's rainy, but it is what's the word like misty rain, not not misty, but when it's kind of muggy, mugg Yeah, humid, humidity, humid.

You know where's humid that Tampa, Florida.

Oh, we will still go, but but yeah, I don't like it when it's rainy and you kind of look outside and you're like, oh, I'm.

Gonna human, it's going to be cool. It's going to be called the human.

It's just kind of gross when it's raining and it's really humored. And I think this week, in particular, with my back and everything, I've been walking around in this humid kind of hate and Melbourne's raining the only scenes in one day.

A hilarious stuff. The only good thing about Melbourne's weather is that it's not humid. Yes, you're not used to it, and it occasionally is it's very fair.

All four scenes in one day.

Ah, hilarious, hilarious, hilarious. I like it. I like that. I agree with the Poordrey Peeve yeap.

Thank you for letting me say that. And also, can I say a little bit of a teaser, few lovely people. We will soon be recording an episode, not with Diggs, who's sleeping right next to you right now peacefully, but with a young Poetry who is about to be a year older.

Yeah, we're going to record at my house on Poetry.

We're gonna do a full episode, and you guys see Poetry on the YouTube dot com. But also you can hear her throughout the podcast because Poort is yappy as and we love that about her. So we do an episode with Poudry. It's about time, That's what I'm saying right now. It's about bloody time, and goes to a doting digs real quick, Yeah, go on, I so bad back, right, bad back. I've been real kind of oh god and all gold and I thought I tapped on my Mikey card,

Oh my god, blead.

Yeah, lovely man. And it just made my day because not only did I not have a one hundred and forty all a fine, but also it was just a nice experience.

Yeah, he should come on our radio show as well. And also because he deserves five million dollars.

A year, he does he deserves five million dollars.

Oh that's beautiful.

Yeah, that's my don't digs for this week. Something nice to say, because you're always so angry with your board, repeat you just something nice to say about anyone.

I didn't plan.

No, if you didn't plan something, yes, planned, something nice to say, I didn't plan. Something nice to say, Well, you gotta plan. Something nice to say. Yeah, don say had a nice experience recently.

Yeah, I have nice experiences daily.

Name one of them.

My friend Harrow at work got me a coffee today.

Oh that's nice. Thanks Harrow already shouted it. That is beautiful. Oh God, thank you harroh for providing g love with a beautiful coffee.

All right, let's stop record. We've been recording for so long.

Okay, I've had a lovely time though, sell Yeah, okay, everyone will see you this Thursday for another episode. Share this podcast with a friend. Please please do follow us on social media. We bloody love it. Leave us a five star review, leave us five star rating. Thank you to Oliver Clark for writing the music, Thank you to Tams and Hayes for doing the artwork. And as we always see on this goddamn podcast, for Franny TikTok book Touchstairs