Azaria & Lindy Chamberlain

Australia is known around the globe for having a disproportionate number of deadly animals. No, we don't have lions or anacondas or hippos. Hippos kill more, yes, human, but ours here in Australia are much scarier because they're not so obvious.

Human.

No, I think we all know they're quite deadly. I've written this really nicely. Let me read it. This certain animal wasn't feared around the world, but that all changed one day in nineteen eighty when a mother would utter the soon to be infamous phrase the Dingo's got my baby.

Oh my god.

This is the story of Lindy and Azaria Chamberlain.

Oh my god. I know this story, but I don't know specifics of it. I think everyone knows this.

Story, but then in Australia certainly does. It was very famous like globally. Yeah, yeah, but let's deep dive into it. Dingo dive something like that started with a D. I thought it my work. I'm sorry edited here.

Hey there, everybody, welcome it to not another crime podcast. I'm I'm Sammy Peterson, I'm a journalist. I am not, but I'll tell you what you can do. If you like skipping ahead and just listening to the story, you can do that. The time code is in the show notes below. Gee, you were going to do a story this week that is so so world famous. I mean

That's right and interesting that you said a dingo stole my baby because it is largely misquoted as a dingo stole my baby or the dingo ate my baby. Yes, in fact, the phrase was the Dingo's got my.

Baby, He's got my baby, or Dingo's took my baby. I've heard before.

It's very like it's quoted in so many like shows and things as kind of a joke about Australia. Yes, which I mean, we'll go into the story. It's really not a joke, all right. Yeah, your favorite show the Simsims yep, Simsims and Fraser yes and Seinfeld, Yes, the three of your top favorite shows.

Of course we do. It's so interesting as well because I think, and you know, we'll talk about this after, but I mean I think that she was kind of like an Amanda Knox.

Hey, hey, hey, let's wait for this. Okay, okay, let's let's hold the chat.

Well, let me let me just say this real quick. Diggs has a new pig toy. It's hilarious. It's squeaky. So if you hear that, just know that this is only a moment of your life, and at the moment, this is my whole life. It is Diggs walking around this week. I have always asked people not to get me squeaky toys because Diggs thinks they're hilarious and he shows you NonStop.

I feel like every dog owner knows this pig toy. Yes, and no one has ever bought it for their own dog. No, they always ever gifted. If you hear that noise. That is the wonderful dis Well.

It was one of Diggs's Christmas presents, so he got to.

Send me last episode, you were telling us Diggs was getting to go to Christmas Day. Yeah, yeah, please tell us about it.

Oh, it was the best day for Digs ever. He went to the beach and he went. He got so excited at the beach. He got so excited. We had I think three three days down there and it was the best. Digs went to the beach every day. He ran, He tried to bite the waves. He just thinks the beach is the most incredible thing ever. Also probably really good for his arthriots and hip displays the cold water. So yeah, so he had the best time ever, like

Incredible. Yeah, I need to see that footage.

It's some good stuff, but I don't. I think our Christmas is actually the perfect time to get a little bit drunk and sing that song and then have a big nap for a few hours.

One was that on Christmas Day.

I was on Christmas date. Then I had a nap for quite a few hours, and then I rose like a phoenix. I got back up and I made Dad an espresso martini. So my dad has only he loves an espresso martini. My dad's not a drinker, but he does like an espresso martini. And he had one in a caravan park in where was It was like Biga or something and looked, I'll be honest, a bigger caravan puck. It looked foul, and he thought it was the best thing in the world. It was instant coffee with So yeah,

To take it down, the actual good one, and.

I made it for him. We had that g love on Christmas night. Christmas, Yeah, Christmas night at about eleven pm, stupid mouth and I would buy it, but I was.

I saw it. I saw a tweet recently that said espresso martinis are just Jaeger bombs that studied abroad and won't shut up about.

Oh that's great, that's great. Yeah, but it was. It was. I had a great Christmas and caught up with some old school friends, which was I mean, I see them all the time anyway, but it was just so nice being down there together down on Phillip Island, dig swim all the time, and then since I've been back, I had been sleeping, reading and g love. I'm going to tell you this because I've told you this before, and listeners, look,

I think it's impossible to have an air fryer and not talk about it all the time. It's wise, just from my anecdotal Yes, it seems to be what happened.

Yes, Well, my auntie had a Thermo mix as well, and I helped her make the cauliflower cheese for Christmas Day, and it took so long that we were like both really late for Christmas because the cauliflower cheese took forever. But it was so worth it. How is your Christmas? Love?

It was lovely and very relaxed. My sister has a little holiday hobby farm, and we spent it down there, and I was going to stay for you know, maybe till two days after Christmas. I ended up staying for a week. Every day I would wake up and go this lovely country is healing me and.

You were stressed. You were going to me. Oh, I've got to come back and record. And also, loves, I've got baked potatoes. You stayed down, girlfriend, I did.

And it was beautiful. Obviously I watched Heated Rivalry. Have you watched it? Oh?

No, I've heard a lot about it. I've been watching other shows I want to talk about. But please, what's this?

Okay? Well, I mean I want to talk about it now because the whole world is. But I also don't want to talk about it if you haven't watched it yet, because no, I've been Oh my god.

All right.

All I will say is I'm deep.

Police homosexual program. I believe it's.

Colloquially referred to as the gay Hockey Show. Just gay hockey show. Okay, the internet is called hockey gay Hockey Show. It is the best thing I've ever watched. I have become deeply obsessed with these fictional characters. It is somehow ruined and healed me all at once in six episodes, and I cannot stop thinking about it. I lay and this morning like openly crying, reading like reactions and tweets. Okay, I'm obsessed.

I need to check it out. Then I'm going to make you watch change.

So yeah, do you think it's a little bit different to see change?

But it's interesting?

Got time for them both?

Can I ask you this quickly because you'll know the answer to this. Then the week in between Christmas and it's like, you know it's it's a weird week because you're like, what day is it? It's a blur. It feels like I woke up and all of a sudden, like people started calling the end of financial years sales if he sails all of a sudden fee. I didn't know where that came from. I don't know where goddamnweek came from? What does it mean?

I hate that term so much. It's more than a poetry peeve. That's why we can top. I despise what is it?

What does it mean?

You don't know?

I do know? What is that? Was that? Literally why it's called good?

Yeah? Because it's like in between I despise that term who taint?

Taint is the point. You can watch the YouTube.

If what's changed?

Is it the same as Yeah, it's the same as well.

I hate that, but the word gooch itself just does funny things to my brain. Scratches my brain. Wrong related, No, not Grinch related. No, he gone by by Boxing Day week. That week is my favorite week of the whole year. No one expects anything of you. You don't have to be anywhere, no one's making plans with you. Oh my god, it's so good.

It's the best. It's so so good as a week. So you had a great time.

A spark I was lovely. Yeah's got a little like blow up It looks like a blow up pool, but it's a legitimate spark that pets up and has bubbles and stuff. And I just read my book and watched his Rivalry and talked about his rivalry, and.

Wow, I came to visit you on my way home, which is really on the way at all, but it beggs yeah with Diggs and it was so much on. We got McDonald's on the way home.

That is a rite of passage when you're driving home from the country.

Yeah. Yeah, he had a cheeseburgers and listeners.

Can we tell you that Diggs and Pawdry kind of men.

Kind of met. Yeah. The photos are incredible.

We will share the photos on the Instagram when this episode goes out. So Pauls was inside and Digs was outside and they saw each other through the window and let me say, Diggs thought it was the best thing ever. Paudrey did no.

She looked so mad. That was the end of Diggs's week away, where he slept for like four days after that. But we also saw our packers on the farm and Dick just thought there were the most incredible thing he's ever seen.

They didn't think, they did not think he was the most incredible thing. My sister freaked out because our pack has started making a noise that she's yeah, she's not even heard the make that noise when they are likely to jump, and.

Seeing a horrific beast such as, such as, such as.

It was a big week for Diggs.

Huge week for Digs. And we were recording this on New Year's Eve. We are beautiful.

It has been. You put up a beautiful bowstone Instagram reflecting on your year, and I love so much how you worded the first sentence. So people were like their New Year's You've posts are always thought, you know, oh, this year was big because of such and such and I went through this and I did these things. You said, here's some of what I got to do. This year. Yeah, I fucking love that so much. What a beautiful way to put it. You got to do this.

I got to do a lot this year.

And like they've you know, hard things and hard times and it's been a really shitty year glob Yeah, I just love that. Take you haad on it. I got to do these things.

I got to do these things. Yeah, and it was it was like, I mean, it was the biggest year of my life this year, and so many awful, awful things happened. I mean, at the end of the year with what we spoke about the BONDI you shooting, Like, so many awful, awful things happened this year. But there were also amazing things that I got to do. And I was like, how lucky am I that I got to, like, you know, go around in Australia this year, and I got to do my first ever show. I got to

Yeah, I didn't get no, that know only once, but then you got back.

I got it back. But yeah. But but things that you know that you go, oh my god, like when you look back at your year, because I think for some people like years can go really quickly or really slowly, and I feel like there's part I think that's both, like parts of the year go really slowly, parts of the year go really fast. When you look back at a year, I go, oh my god, I did something every day, and it's always my thing to go I'll take a photo of one thing that I did every

You did so much. You've got to do so much to do so your gratitude and positivity in saying you've got to do so much, it's so beautiful and that has I think shown over all of us and everyone who knows you.

So thank you, hey, thank you g love, and also happy New Year, you love, Happy have you got anything that you want to do next year apart from being a goddamn amazing friend to everyone as you always are.

I wondering where that was going, but I think you, Yeah, this has been very big for me personally. Started off with a separation. Yes, sorry I don't talk about it often, and yes it's been a very big, pivotal, turbulent year. But here we are. I'm very I'm feeling so much more settled and myself than I knew or expected I would be by this time. Yeah, this year, so I'm like a deeply nostalgic person in a very bad way.

So one thing that I want to say before we actually get into this week's episode is I think this time is such a weird time for a lot of people. It's such a strange time, and we're continuing to podcast through this time. I would love to say that I have been watching great things. I've been reading quite a lot as well. I've started the Helen Ghana series that you got me for Christmas. Diaries.

You we all know how much of a crush Sammy has on Helen Ghana. And I was in a bookshop and I saw these the biggest hardcover in my life, that is Helen Ghana's Diaries, and I thought it's so it might be Christmas for Sammy unless he receives that, that's right.

So I've been reading that. I've been reading another book called Under the Bridge, which is really intense. It's a very hard read because of the content, but I highly recommend it if you want a true crime book. I have actually gone back and started it again because I realized I wasn't really focused on it enough. So I've actually started it again. You know, I think when you read books sometimes you don't really want percent focus. And I realized I was kind of halfway through the book

So it's like a deeply disturbing one, and you're double.

Reading it, and I'm double reading it, so I'm going back reading that. I'm also taking time in reading more Helen Ghana as well as that I have been watching, which I'll go into in another episode because one of the episodes I'm doing soon, I watch a series that has got me going, oh my god, this is a true story, and I'm doing that. I think in the next episode I'll be doing that. But David E. Kelly,

Did we talk about this?

I think we already spoke about it, but but I watched that. There's a lot of things that I've been watching that keep popping up. And there's a new documentary on Jody Hildebrand that I haven't watched yet, but I highly recommend watching it because we're going to talk about it.

This week there is an Australian kind of media commentatorvative writer called Joe Hildebrand, and I sincerely thought you meant there was a documentary about Joe Hildebrand.

I wouldn't be watching. But Jee, have you got any recommendations You've been reading?

You've been hated rivalry? I can't stop talking or thinking about it. But yes, I've also been reading the book that you got me called loved One. I'm about two thirds the way through and I love Oh Gray. It is really, really, really good. But I'll talk about it more when I finished it.

Okay, do you love Well? Let's get into this week's episode still.

Alice Lynn Murchison, who was known as Lindy from a very young age, was born in March nineteen forty eight in news Filland but her family moved to Australia when she was just a baby. Her father was a pastor pastor not at the Seventh Day Adventist Church, which we'll talk about a bit more later, So they moved around the family moved around a bit when he was kind of in charge of moving around a lot would be hard, yeah, but she spent Linda spent most of her childhood in Victoria, Australia,

Okay, there are so many branches of Christianity that it's so hard, and it.

Is a branch of Christianity. Its core beliefs are rooted in the Bible, with a belief in the heavenly sanctuary and an investigative judge just put little extra syllable in their investigative judgment before Jesus's return. They follow a street code of ethics. They're often vegetarian. They avoid alcohol, tobacco, and drugs, and believe in the unconscious state of the dead until resurrection. Now it's not the same as Mormonism, but the two are often confused, you know, just in ignorance.

Yes, okay, for sure the actual.

Book, but potentially the musical as well.

Was it, Joseph Smith, It sure.

Was, which I only know because of the musical. The Mormon prophet Joseph Smith, the All American prophet, whoa I've an ogi about Jesus Christ. Who I'll sing you the rest of the musical later. Now, more on how and why Lindy's beliefs and this religion are worth mentioning will come up later. In nineteen sixty nine, Whendy was twenty one, she married twenty five year old Michael Chamberlain, the pastor at her job right. He was also a New Zealand

Now, Azaria is an odd name for you know, for Australia and New Zealand. Do you know do you know what that means?

I've literally written asterix, asterix more on her name'll come up. No, it's not the next end of this type. It will come up, mark my word.

Right.

That's what you call a hook hook line and if the crime in the story is like the people aren't hanging around for the crime part of it, but they will hang around for the meeting of the name. Now, Michael didn't spend a heap of time at home given his church duties, so when they could, the family would often take time to travel together. And when little Azaria

It's arana like they're the huge people. Move a kind of came.

Yeah, not to know, no, you're think, but it's like a big kind of big mon yeah. Yeah. Now, the family had camped and traveled with their two little boys, so they felt confident and comfortable in doing so with Azaria despite her being so little. They knew, you know, they had done that before and they knew they could again. So they traveled around the Northern Territory, which is the outback you know, really known as the outback of Australia. The red st for the red dirt.

The highest point of Australia is is isn't it? The Northern Territory.

I was in like the most normal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there a big no no, sorry, but they've got it because it's the whole, absolute holiest Yeah yeah yeah.

One of the most well known sites and landmarks in the Northern Territory is well, yeah, that's not so much a landmark, but crocodiles. Yeah, not so many crocodiles though. In Ularu, as it's in the middle of the desert, it's an ancient sandstone rock surrounded by springs, waterholes and caves. It has strong traditional and cultural significance to the first peoples of Australia and the unknown people were the traditional owners and are the traditional owners, sorry, of that land.

It used to be referred to it back then as as rock, and people actually used to climate.

You kept saying my next. The British explorer in eighteen seventy three who first discovered Ularoo in English airs Rock, but its cultural name is Ularu and Australia has finally done the right thing in not calling it airs Rock in The first track to the rock was built in nineteen forty eight and it became a tourism spot in nineteen eighty when the Chamberlains went there. There was a camp site tourists could stay in within the National park grounds that you can no longer. There's no longer big

What, yeah, twenty nineteen. Yeah, I thought it must have been in the early two thousands nineteen.

Yes, so it was horrender It is horrendous.

Is the word horrendous.

And when they finally said okay, we're definitely not letting anyone do this anymore, thousands of people went there in the days and weeks beforehand to do it before last. That that terrible I have. So my family went to Ularu when I was in prep, so in I was six.

I probably went at the same time.

Yeah, that would have been nineteen ninety four. Yep, yep, you're a small baby there, but.

Yeah, but I was, Yeah, I reckon, I probably went about the sticks.

Yeah, and that was a time when we weren't respectful or I was going to say weren't understanding, but no, it's great to say we weren't respectful of the fact that the First Nations people didn't want to be doing that.

And we also didn't have like sorry to interrupt, but we in our schools, I was not taught at all about Indigenous culture. How we learned about ned Kelly Burkenwills, We didn't. We didn't learn about indigenous culture at my school exactly. So I don't think that we had the act until you actually learn yourself.

Well and in the early nineties that my parents weren't actively disrespectful by any means. It wasn't, as you said, it wasn't really spoken about certainly in the same way it is now, which is a bad thing. But my dad and my sister climbed the rock and I was going to but was too scared because I was sick. Yeah, and I got a T shirt, like you know, from the little tourist thing said this little black duck didn't

I still can't believe twenty nineteen, that's wild.

I remember it was like a big thing. Pauline hands and was trying to get that change so people still could and she, I'm pretty sure she went and climbed it, or said she was going to. Apologies if that's incorrect.

Nah fucker, Nah a fucker.

Anyway, back to the Chamberlain's. They went to Ularu in nineteen eighty in August. They planned to stay for three nights. It was very busy being school holidays, so there were lots of people around. They set up camp towards the back of the designating camping area. Because they had a nine week old baby, they didn't want to disturb other campers. They set up next to a sand dune known as Sunray Hill and close to a picnic table where there was like a barbecue area. Stuff.

Sunrise Hills sounds a lot more poetic than I showed you. On Philip Island, the hill called spew Hill because a lot of people run up at and spewed. We've got culture too, You saying Philip Bardles don't have culture, Try against sweety.

Phillip Island's got culture. There was only one flood light in the communal barbecue area. That was the only light in the hole. It's obviously in the outback there is, you know, no street lines. The family of five all slept in the one tent. Azaria slept in a white wicker basket at her brother Reagan's feet. They sat there for the first night, and then the first morning they came out and met other campers who were staying in the same area.

Did you say so she was nine months old or nine weeks weeks? Nine weeks?

Yeah, yeah, baby, baby, baby, yeah. And because of that, when they went out and met the other campers, there was lots of fussing and a tiny little baby Azaria. First day, the family went exploring in their car and took quite a few family photos. Michael was a keen photographer and they and they wanted to you know, capture memories of this family holiday. They returned to the campground

What's a matinee jacket?

Actually, every time I kept every time I wrote it, I kept thinking, go and google what that looks like. Then I was too it.

Must just be. Maybe it's like an afternoon kind of outfit.

I'm kind of like I'm picturing, like, yeah, to go to the montaindaye must be you got like a smoker's jacket of nine week old baby. I'm kind of picturing like a cardigan. I'm just quickly googling.

Imagine yeah, like oh yes, yes.

It's like like a little knitted baby's cardigan. Yes, like yeah, yeah, but copper exactly what you'd be picturing a little baby in the eighties, a little knitted sure card okay um. She was also wearing so a. Lindy dressed Azaria with a pair of little white knitted booties underneath the jumpsuit so that she didn't have to remove them every time Azaria snappy needed changing after the show, and after the show exactly you got to have your shoes inside your tights.

Assume a PM in August.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, Azaria. Sorry. Lindy carried his Aria down the twenty five meters to their tent, the front of which was visible from the picnic area. Greg Lowe, one of the new friends they had just made, saw Lindy kneel down and into the tent. A short time later, he saw her leave the tent and walk towards the family's car and then come back to the campsite with Aiden in toeep no no sorry, seven year old Aiden. He was hungry, so she was going to make him

They're more like like hyaenas and them are kind of similar in a way. Like either way they kind of look I don't know.

They're more like like in their nature, maybe a bit more like a wolf. But also they're quite feeline like in there, and maybe that's a bit more the high endit' thinking like they're quite like agile and fo Yeah, look kind of like big.

Foxes, saying sexy fox.

Elita dingos fox elitis. They travel in packs of up to ten and around Uluru live in lairs. I think they do everywhere, but I've just them at Uluru. Lairs like caves in the area and they hunt at night. They were very much known to be native in the area and there were lots of signs up saying not to feed them.

Yeah. Sure.

The dingos that lived at and around Ularu had grown accustomed to humans and often hunted around camp sites for food. So by no means like domesticated, but they were used to humans being there and they would hang around the camp sites because they knew they had foods. Oh my god, terr genuinely more terrifying than a dingo if I game across that the chamberlains had purposely left all their food in their car. So it's not to try to singers

Oh really that many? Oh wow?

Yeah, the day before three children had actually been bitten in separate incidents. That none of those incidents were very very serious.

But and you need to get some sort of raby shops and rabi. I don't know, but yeah, having like that if it's wild animals and it bites you, wild animals biting a child, and you know what, I don't think it's right.

I actually don't think it's right wild animals.

But Childred goes as sexy though, foxy, foxy sexy again if you found this out about me now, it's.

Like so many straight male's sexual awakening was Jessica Rabbit like. Of course it was still as to this day, you're awaken sexually to miss Biggy every day.

I'll sleep when I'm dead. I don't know what that means, but I don't like it. I like it.

All right. Lindy said that she saw a dingo. So when she yelled at a dingo's got my baby.

So she she saw sorry, so heard crying, walked down to check on his area, and then and then saw the dingo walking away from it.

And stop saying my next sentence, she said that she had seen a dingo walking away from their tent as she walked down towards it. She said it looked like it was coming out of the tent, but she kind of thought, no, that can't be right. Then when she went inside, she found Reagan asleep and Azaria's basket empty. Holy shit, there were drops of blood on the floor of the tent and the baskets blankets were strewn across the tent and ripped her dummy was still was in the tent and it was still warm.

Oh my god.

Michael and other campers got torches and went searching in the direction Lindy said she had seen the dingo go. When I say went searching, just kind of quickly went off in that direction. But then Michael came back and stayed with Lindy at the campsite. One of the men who was helping look found what looked like track marks just over the sand dune where they were staying, and an imprint in the sand that looked like something had

Heartbreaking. Imagine the terror of being a parent when in that moment would just be I.

Don't know yet whether you know what the parents might have known about this situation.

Or not, but yeah, yeah, I know.

Other campers said they had seen dingoes that day, like at and around that their campground. They were seen following campers to bins after they had disposed of food scraps, and one family had a dingo come right up to their van door around eight pm that night and actually took a photo of it. Eight pm, which is remember that time she went to Lindy went to put Asari

Oh my god.

Three hundred people joined the search for baby Azaria that night.

There were three hundred oil rangers.

And everyone at the campsite, three hundred, including Aboriginal trackers with expertise in dingo tracking. But with all the human footprints, they couldn't find any distinguishable tracks. What made the search even more desperate, if that's possible, was the fact that Azaria had been recovering from a cold and given how cold the night was, so even though it's really hot

Yeah, like freezing. Yeah, yeah, not freezing, but very cold. Yeah.

It was very likely that even if baby Azaria had somehow been dropped by the dingo, she wouldn't survive the night out in the cold. She was nine weeks old week with a cold. The Chamberlains remained at the campsite as the hundreds of people searched. Michael commented that Azaria was likely dead or read and whatever happened was God's will.

Michael said this the dad yeah. On that night, m hm oh.

One person said to Lindy that they thought that people were searching too far and should be looking under closer scrubs and bushes, to which Lindy replied, I will have to live with this the rest of my life, and I don't want to think that the baby could have been out there and simply because we didn't look in the right place, it would die. So they did go and.

We looking to say that night, isn't it yeah to say I'm.

Going to have to live with this forever? We don't know she's all.

Right, Yeah, yeah, Okay, that's weird behavior.

So Michael and Lindy did go and look in the shrub. They disappeared on their own for about fifteen to twenty minutes,

Was this the next day? When was this?

It was within the next couple of days. I don't I haven't written down. Sorry, we're exactly when it was.

Okay, that's an insane thing to say.

I mean, we are famously very much not religious people, so try to save my judgment. But it is interesting from my point of view. He then described how they knew from the sharp jagged marks in Azari's blanket that she had been attacked by a quote very powerful beast. In this meta interview, Lindy wore a big, dark pair of sunglasses and held Reagan in front of the cameras she explained how she had witnessed the dingo emerged from the tent. Shortly after putting Azari to Beard. She said, quote,

Photos, family photos.

Yeah, h none of this went down well with the media or the public. Their immediate acceptance of what had happened to aaria and their composure was seen as, to put it, lightly, not right, No, not right, and police started to wonder about this too. They said she gave, They said Lindy gave conflicting details to different people, including whether she said she saw something in the dingo's mouth or not, whether she saw it coming out of the

It's a bizarre way to test that theory.

Isn't that weird? You're not a dingo? Yeah, weird?

Weird.

After three days of searching and no sign of the missing baby, it was publicly announced that there was no possibility of recovering Azaria alive.

God.

At the same time, park rangers started shooting dingos and while dog around Ularu and then to send their remains for analysis in the hopes they might reveal something, and like whether there were any contents in their stomachs that could reveal something. Exactly one week after Azaria went missing, something did turn up. A photographer was hiking at Ularo, about five kilometers from the campsite and four hundred meters from the rock. Lindy said she had seen the creepy

That's good, yep. Not tampering with evidence.

Well, yes, the hiker didn't, but the police who were called picked up the items, finding there were booties inside the jumpsuit. As Lindy had described, she addressed to Zaria right. One of the sleeves of the jumpsuits had a large rip, and the neckline appeared to have been torn or cut,

Ran into it. It's getting he walked into a bin yesterday.

Good he heard me say, canine salidon?

Does me?

It had rained in the twelve hours before the discovery. Have you been to Uluru?

Yeah? Yeah, or the very long time ago though when I was I was saying when I was like, really.

Little, I have been there when it has rained, which apparently according to the part ranger there, they say one percent of tourists get to see it.

It was it would have been so beautiful.

Yeah, maybe I'll post things actually on their Instagram story. So if you look up or if you've been and seen pictures of Ularu, it is it's always red. It's like this beautiful red color. But in the rain it looks like it kind of a gray, looks like a completely different color. And now full on waterfall.

Like full on waterfalls and with the sun and everything, it would be so beautiful.

Well yeah, I mean there's not much someonhen it's raining, yes it comes from the clouds, but it looks completely complete beautiful. And it was just so funny cause they were like at the whole National Park and all the places you could stay around, so it's like no one had umbrellas at all. So it was like everyone's just walking around the rain. It was incredible. Also, do you know another word for umbrella is bumber stock? No, how

Yeah, what was what was the purpose of showing them just an update to the case. I guess it's seeming very weird though it showed garments and go, this is an update.

I suppose that was their way of going because there was so much Metia attention into it, of going, oh, look, there's been this discovery.

Yeah.

Lindy and Michael Chamberlain learned of the discovery via the news.

Wow, that's insane, isn't that horrific? Yeah? Yeah, there's been an update in the case about their daughter.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A radio journalist called Lindy, and Lindy spoke to her. She said she being Lindy said she wasn't surprised by the state of her daughter's clothes, as she had previously seen Dingo's attack cattle and knew what they were capable of Lindy said that yep. In a TV interview, she calmly explained that dingos used their paws like hands to peel back the skin of their quote like an orange. Again, her saying this and her demeanor while saying it did not help people's opinions of her.

No, because you're talking about your baby.

Being like killed back like an orange and being like, well, yeah, dingoes can use their pause. So yeah, that's what happened. Yeah, they undressed her and then ate her about her nine week old baby. Investigators kept digging into the case. They spoke to a doctor who had treated Azaria shortly before their trip. I assume for the cold, but I could didn't find out why. And this doctor said he had been concerned as Lindy hadn't fed her for eight hours

Okay, very rare.

Bare I look at that and go, well, sure, why why not? But but they never are babies never.

Never a black Melbourne babies are.

Very true. A little north phone's puffer jacket. Now this is where the name and the origin of the name Azaria first come into it. This doctor told police that he had looked up the meaning of the name Azaria, and in a book of baby names, discovered that Azaria means sacrifice in the wilderness. What The investigating police officer tried to find the book the doctor had read this in, but the only copy in the local library had been lost.

Sacrifice in the wilderness. Oh my god.

So when you were like, Asari is interesting, what does that mean? It was like, hold, hold, hold, we'll get there. You went wait, wait, The investigator noted to other pivotal things. I mean, I'm calling these the two. Obviously there were there were lots of things investigated, but I'm pulling out two pivotal things. He concluded that the blanket that was ripped was too thick to have been done so by canine teeth, and it appeared that it had been cut rather than bitter.

That's a difference.

Yeah. The second thing he noted was that the discovery of Azaria's clothes that week later had been at the exact site the Chamberlain's had already admitted to going to that day. Oh so got the day that she taken. So the investigation continued, and I've pulled out some notable parts in my humble opinion, is it in my humble opinion or in my honest opinion, I am a joe.

Is that I think you're saying.

But I am ah joe. I suppose it comeni the.

Kind of my honest opinion. Yeah, I think in my honest opinions.

I think maybe that's a bit of a something that's said incorrectly. People going my honest opinion, an honest opinion, an opinion in his opinion. Sorry, every so off And I just like to just dissect the English language, all right, So some notable parts. Investigators seized Lindy's clothes from a dry cleaner, so clothes that she'd had on the troop. Her friend had taken to the dry cleaner for her, and the friend apparently told police that she had noticed

Much can use the police chief to put in his mouth.

Well in his nappy. Yeah, I think it was his disposed were nappy they used it. Yeah, there was much more damage to that nappy than had there had been at the one founder.

ULARU okay, sure.

Another experiment had a goat. This is just yucky and weird. A goat's carcass dressed as Azaria would have been so like wearing a singlet, a jumpsuit, everything, nappy, And when this one was given to a single dingo, the nappy was in much the same state as the one that had been found. The jumpsuit was torn and chewed on, but the dingo managed to get the goat carcass out without undoing the jumpsuit. Oh yeah, so it was kind of the meat in the nappies was like, well, no,

Yeah, and they're back in Queensland at this point there, yes, yeah, back home.

Their home was staked out. People were honking and yelling at all times of the night. Tabloid magazines were running gross headlines. Theories included that the parents had killed Azaria because she was sick or possibly disabled, or that one of the brothers had killed her and they were covering for them. It's exactly exactly. I wonder if that's kind of why that theory came about, because that's a theory in John Burney as well. The family's religion and church

Oh?

Do Jonestown as an episode another time? So this false connection to that church led to speculation that Azaria had been murdered as a human sacrifice, and the fact that Lindy had been dressing Azari in black was a recognition of her sacrificial status. Now, Lindy was a seamstress, as we said, and often drew criticism for the clothes that she would make and wear. Being the pastor's wife, people

If she's not talking about.

It's like she's stopped doing media interviews to say leave us alone. When you're not, we don't feel like you care about this. The coronial inquest began in October of that year. While it was on newspaper sales were up forty thousand dollars a day.

Forty thousand dollars a day. Yes, in the eighties.

It was a media circuits wow, right, So notable parts of the inquiry. Lindy was described as a loving and caring mother, that she was thirty two at the time, I think, and noted that it's yeah, yeah. Bomb threats were made to the motel the Chamberlains were staying in during the inquest. So the inquest was in the Northern Territories, they were up there for it. Bomb threats were made to the motel they were staying in, and one direct death threat against Lindy was actually phoned into the court.

My god, in.

The inquiry, the true meaning of Azaria's name was discussed. The parents said it meant blessed by God. A Hebrew Studies expert dispelled the rumor that it meant sacrifice in the wilderness for what it's worth, I looked it up when I mean, there wasn't Google in nineteen eighty, but

By yeah yeah wow.

Also in the inquiry, Dingo experts said studies found the animals could carry up to nine kilos in their mouth for long distances, so old mat carrying a bucket of sand in his mouth that was dispelled. An experts said a solitary dingo could consume a mammal of Azaria's weight in under twenty minutes or even faster. If pears or groups of dingoes were involved, they usually consumed their prey entirely, making it really hard to identify a location where the

Anyway.

He described the dingos around Uluru as particularly dangerous as they maintained their hunting skills as they got in the wild while also being fed by tourists, resulting in a situation where they were not tame but also not quite wild.

That's really interesting. Yeah, yeah, And that's why they're watching and everything, because they're waiting. Yes.

This expert also dismissed any of the experiments that were conducted with dingos at zoos and wildlife reserves, because captive dingoes exhibit very different behaviors from wild ones.

Okay sure.

His report concluded that a dingo could have taken a baby, removed its clothing and consumed it whole with ease. Wow, that's kind of shocking. Clothing just seems I've got an image of all dingo like a bluey character. Yeah yeah, just like unzipping a little babies jump soon and stuff. I don't think that's what. The coroner made an Australian first decision in allowing his findings to be broadcast live.

That had been found dirt from there.

He said there was a possibility that an unknown person could have come across the dingo with Azaria and tried to rescue her, then finding she was dead, possibly buried her, but later got out the items of clothing to leave for a hiker to find. This was just a kind of a speculation and if it wasn't, this is what I've decided. This could have happened, but very much said a dingo took her and Lindy and Michael were not involved.

That's really good, you know. With the judge decided that's a really good thing to do.

We were out of bad.

Let's take a quick way.

Let's take a boy now. Northern Argy police weren't happy about the criticism from the coroner nor the findings handed out. They actually told the media that the case would remain open. It just wasn't being actively investigated.

Okay.

So the thing with that, we've discussed this in other cases before, but a coroner's inquest in Australia, I'm not sure about anywhere else. It is a legal thing. It's obviously in a court, but the coroner makes recommendations and then the public prosecutor can decide to lay charges or not based on that. So the coroner saying yes, it was definitely didn't go We're not investigating any people. That doesn't actually have the like authority to close a case.

Own from it. He came over to do it or it was.

Like, well that I don't know, I.

Shouldn't pull you up on it. I'm so sorry you didn't pull me.

Up on it. You're just asking a question and for that I love him. He hadn't been involved in the like the initial investigation or coroner's inquiry, but he kind of decided to look into on his own and he found on the jumpsuit of Azaria's that was found.

Was found there was a.

This British guy found that there was an incision at the neck of the jumpsuit that hadn't been investigated, and he believed that was consistent with having been cut by scissors or caused like an incision caused by scissors. He instrument if you will, I will, and you will. He also found what he believed to be a small human

So the Lindy's walking free.

Yeah absolutely, yeah, got no capability in the eyes.

Of the dingoes. Are breathing a cyghber relief as well.

Correct. When informed of this development and the fact that it was due to this British forensic what did I say he was yes, forensic scientist, Lindy responded coolly. I didn't know there were any dingo experts in London. Wow, that's a bit of a bad bitch like this forensic experts found that the Dingo's definitely didn't do this right around. It's interesting. Didn't know there were any in London for this native Australian animal that Australian researchers don't know much about.

That's so interesting. Yeah. Wow.

So when the investigation was reopened, the family's car was taken in for testing, which hadn't hadn't been before, and what was found was a sticky substance under the dashboard. Forensics said it wouldn't be blood as it would have dried. Blood would have dried much more than that. Well yeah, yeah, but they did find confirmed blood stains in other parts

It's not a good look. And also as are wearing black and everything as well. It's got some really, there's some strange undertones happening here.

Yeah. On November eighteen, that same year nineteen eighty one, it was announced that, based on new evidence, the findings of the previous coronial inquest had been quashed and a new coronial inquest had been so they essentially said, we think there's enough new the information or new evidence now not to lay charges, but to have another inquest to see if we could lay.

Charges would be pretty uncommon as well very.

I mean, I'm sure there will have been, but I can't remember a time where there have been like immediately within one year to coronial inquiries into the same thing. Like usually even when there is a second coronial investigation after one has already been, it's years and years and years later when they go we'll hang on, Like with the when we spoke about the claimont killer, Yes, years like there are few because it was like, right, well there have been changes to DNA and forensics and stuff.

I don't think even Feathers McGraw had another coronial inquest after the wrong trousers.

I don't think you did well they were the wrong trousers that it was confirmed then it was proven that they were the wrong trib You've just got it Walked twenty twenty six.

You've done just got that episode I call it would be these surfer boys on Philip Island that their their thing became calling each other a grommet. I hate that, you grom it.

Oh, it's like a surfer words better than saying that, well to you. Do you have any words like that that really like scratch your brain?

Wrong? Um? No, not really No, I don't. I don't have one. That kind of irks me. You would have lots.

That's mostly the pronunciations of things, But that word itself, I hate. What's your favorite word? No, it's not, No, it's not.

I would I like the word thoroughly like not.

You'd love the musical Thoroughly Modern. I do.

That's my favorite musical of all.

How does it?

Hello, thorough, that's too meet you. Let's look through this thoroughly. Let's go with you.

Hallow, I'm thorough that's great. Yeah, not Hallow, I'm Millie. No, that's actually beautiful and I can't wait to see that when it comes back. Thoroughly Modern thorough comes back to Australia next year. Right new inquest was ordered and it started almost a year after the first had so within the year notable moments that came out in this in coronial inquiry. DNA testing wasn't around yet in nine and anyone, So the blood stains in the car couldn't be tested

It was.

The ones that were confirmed blood stains. Who could see that it was human blood obviously, so that was confirmed, but the sticky substance couldn't be really proven what it was, and he couldn't see whose blood it was.

Yeah, okay.

The Chamberlain said that one of the sons regularly got blood noses regularly and they had also once picked up an injured hitch hiker in that car, So any kind of small bloodstains in the car, they were saying, well

It's all about timeline, like do you know how much time that was?

In? Six to ten minutes?

So it was quite a long time, yes, But there.

Was also like she was putting a baby down. It's all like, this is the this is kind of what's come up through all that. She was gone from six to ten minutes. Between six and ten minutes when she was putting the baby down, so sorry, not when she walked off and said, oh my god, Dingo's got my baby. Yeah. The suggestion is that she took Azaria to the tent, killed her, came back, and then later went to.

Check on her and was like, oh no, she's crying. Sound well yeap, okay.

It's still about a third to guy Buckalen. Yeah, so she hadn't been wearing the track pans. It was suggested she could have changed into them. She said in the Cronyal inquiry she did in fact change into them that night, but not until ten pm when she got cold. So Azaria was notice missing at eight and she said, no, it wasn't until later that I changed into them, and she denied seeing any bloodstains on them then or when

Oh my god in the car. Yeah, yes, yeah, okay.

There was also now I don't know why I haven't put this in a dot point, I might have in my camp later, but there was also something about a pair of nail scissors found in the car with blood blood human blood stains on them as well. Sure, so this kind of became the theory.

Yes, okay.

Now. The coroner found that while the evidence was largely circumstantial, he believed a properly instructed jury could arrive at a verdict. Right, He did not believe the evidence suggested a dingo was involved, but that it was consistent with a human killing and burying Azaria in her clothing.

God, there's a completely different from the opposite. Opposite.

Yeah, yeah, I feel like kind of just goes to show you. It depends what experts you bring forward exactly.

It wasn't from the UK, was he?

Well, all those dinger experts. The coroner then formally charged Lindy Chamberlain with the murder of her nine week old daughter and Michael Chamberlain with being an accessory to murder.

After the fact, this is just thirteen months after the first did you say, sorry?

No, it was within a year after the first, So I hang on, when did I say it started in November? I've just said it started almost a year, not even like just over a year, not not over a year after.

So they're breathing easy for that time and then it's like.

No except for the fact that they're baby's missing.

Sure, sure, but I mean if they're guilty.

Correct, Yeah, I mean, yeah, they've gone well a coronial inquest has val had nothing to do it few wow, and now they have been charged formally charged with murder. Casually charged, not smart casually definitely not casually.

Definitely not casually charged.

I couldn't even think of what the word for opposite of formally, well, what would be? As you guys know from how I like to go dress at the airport, I don't know a casual exist. This is pearls, sitting up, stroking my pearls and drinking my shunder.

Take three hours the metal detectives.

Yes, from all my jewels. Okay. They both pleaded not guilty and they were granted bail on a ten thousand dollars surety. Now this did not go down well that they were allowed bail at all. How much bail wass.

Okay, not much for but yeah, that's not murder.

It must have been more of a thing in the eighties. These days, it's not like you just wouldn't been given out murder. And the whole thing about the surety is much more of an American thing now, it's not you can put up a surety for Yeah, like other kind of crimes. I've never heard of a murderer, Oh sorry, an alleged murderer get bail at all.

Oh well, yeah, things watching recently and it was like it took place in the eighties, and you know, and she was put up with the person who was accused of murder, was put in a prison cell. And then they said it's one hundred thousand dollars bail to get out. And I was like, what in the eighties even you could get out? One hundred thousand dollars was the price, and they came.

Up with it, well, this is ten thousand for the same things, nus.

Yeah. Yeah.

Now the media also did not help. One radio segment about the case, and I have not confirmed with radio station. This was not just because I work in Australian radio said so. They were doing a report on the case, and the report ended with quote, when the trial goes to court, the world might find out just why lean the Indie Chamberlain cut the throat of her daughter?

Holy, did you.

Know anything about defamation? Yeah, you can't see that.

But is the word might Is that where they kind of got away with it.

No, because it's the world might find out might find out, not the world to find out if she might have. Yeah, So the word alleged needs to come in term of im or I'm forever, I'm forever yelling at the news and other radio stations and stuff when people say allegedly unnecessarily or like in the wrong part, or they'll go you know, a man was allegedly killed when he was hit by a drunk driver. Like, no, No, a man was killed. It was allegedly by a drunk Yes, he

Did Lindy and my call separate or something like that? No, did Feathers come back?

For example? Okay, I guess Lindy felt pregnant? Whoa They said they were praying for a baby girl.

Wow.

When her trials started in September nineteen eighty two, Lindy Chamberlain was seven months pregnant.

Seven months pregnant.

The media fucking love this. They focused daily on their reports on Lindy's choice of maternity outfits. Yeah, like, this is a woman standing trial for the murder of her baby and she's standing trial, seven months pregnant with another baby, like it is just like media fodder. It's like the sub editors would have been frothing at the mouth, like it's such.

A famous story as well, And there are so many reasons obviously that it is like the basics of the Yes, I don't know all of this stuff. It's and I'm not surprised that this was such a big story in the eighties.

And I didn't go into this like in my script because I just think it's gross. But it's still part of the story, and you know, it's very much of the time as well, probably would happen now too. But she was really criticized a lot as well because of how she looked. She was not, you know, typically feminine, a very short haircut, she wore, as I said, those

I was saying, we're quite sassy as well as.

Yeah, which we have got into, but that's what I thought. Yeah, the fact that she wasn't typically feminine and was a mother, it was kind of seen as well, yeah, you don't look like it. You know, you don't look typically feminine, and you're the this weird church lady, Like I could believe you would have killed sacrifice to your daughter. Like this was the whole kind of narrative around it.

Yeah, yeah, right.

So the jury for her trial was made up of all white people, and that's despite the Northern Territory's largely indigenous population. Okay, which is just an interesting note. I thought the prosecution's case was that Lindy had taken Azaria to the car and slit her throat. Then she and Michael had taken so, as I said before, gone back to the campsite and been like, oh, I think I can hear Azaria crying. Went back, oh you didn't, go's

Wow.

Remember I said there was that kind of fifteen minute period where they went off to searching their own. Yeah.

Yeah.

Experts gave evidence that the blood stains were not consistent with a dingo attack and that no dingo hairs were found. Remember I said there were nine individual animal hairs found in the tent. They turned out to be of a cat. Oh wow, so I assumed they had a pet cat at home.

Yeah, all the cat did it?

Hey, no spoilers, Yeah.

Exactly, I've got my cat theory.

The defense's case was that it had always been that it was a tragic The defense's case was, as it had always been, that this had been a tragic accident. Two experts for the defense said that the car blood stains could have been from another a number of other reasons. Okay, so you know the blood, kid's blood nose, the hitchhiker. They had experts to say, yes, they definitely could have been from either of those things.

The hard thing is you can't have an expert for everything that is. That is the thing.

It's like, Yeah, there were a prosecut experts and defense experts, so you can find someone to go. Here's the prosecution expert saying these bloodstains definitely mean this, but someone on the other hands going, well, no, I'm an expert as well, and I'm saying they definitely mean he is. Witnesses from the campground testified to hearing a baby crying after Lindy returned from putting her test sleep, So it wasn't just Lindy that so in fact, if you remember, Lindy said she didn't hear crying.

Yeah. Yeah.

Evidence of the dog prints and drag marks found and the imprint in the sand of the clothing were also used as defense witnesses. But it was also proven that the couple had disappeared for that fifteen minutes during the search, and this is when they could have hit in the body.

Yeah, okay.

The first sign of emotion from Lindy through this whole thing, now two years on, was when pictures of her daughter's bloodstained clothes were shown to the court. She openly wept. Michael Chamberlain was quizzed about why he had described his daughter's death as the will of God. He said on the stand that he couldn't recall making the comment, but as a religious man, he believed that God's will is overall. The trial became the most publicized court case in Australian history still to this day.

Did you say cameras were allowed in for the No?

Just in that coronial when the cameras were allowed in for the finding. This trial was dubbed Trial of the Century. And when I read that, I was like, oh for Australia, I guess like if I said Trial of the century. This was twelve years before OJ Simpson's trial. When I read that this was dubbed the Trial of the Century, I was like, oh, well, I mean obviously because of O. J. Simpson that's been called that and we've gone, oh, this is ours in Australia. No, No, this was twelve years before that.

Wow.

Yeah. The jury deliberated for six and a half hours before delivering their verdicts on October twenty nine, nineteen eighty two.

Six hours isn't a lot for this, No, not for a murder trial. Do you think about it like you think it's nine days? Yet?

Ten days? I think yeah. Both Lindy and Michael Chamberlain were found.

How did you do that? Sorry?

I just brought out my drum set guilty.

Oh my god.

In scenes I have never experienced nor heard of, a reporter who had been covering the trial jumped out of his seat and yelled out bastards.

Oh my god, a reporter.

Yeah, Sydney Morning Herald. Isn't that insane? I've never heard of that. Not a family member, not a supporter, a reporter. Isn't that wild that? I think that. The reason I included that is because it's like, it goes to show how people were so staunchly on one side or the other. It wasn't a really like we talk about the mushroom cook.

Yes, that's insane.

Lindy showed no emotion while the verdict was delivered, which also didn't help when that was reported while Michael reportedly looked strained and was biting his lip. Michael was given a twelve month suspended sentence with a good behavior so he didn't have to spend any time in jail.

Oh that's surprising, Yeah for being that's interesting.

Lindy, who is now eight months pregnant, was sentenced to life in maximum security prison.

She got life and her accessory got eighteen months suspended. That doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I mean, it was probably her mitigating his culpability was so they were saying that she killed his own his own he knew nothing about it, but just afterwards he went and helped her hide the body.

Yes, okay, which I mean I would think that's.

Still a pretty big deal. But maybe the fact that it was like, you know, supporting a partner, or because there are weird rules around spouses with you know, you're not allowed to like testify against a spouse and things like that. Well that you've got clemency and there's a weird rules about when you're married. I don't know if it's either do that I'm literally doing it, I reckon just good nothing, I don't know what that's the point. It's just chat about.

I'm really surprised by that, and that she was found guilty. No, I'm surprised that he only got oh.

Yes, I was gonna say, no one else, no one seems surprised.

But also like you know that she's going to have the baby in in prison maximum security.

She was a Barrama prison in Darwin, Okay. So Darwin is the very top of the very middle of Australia.

I did say before, the highest, the highest, the large mountain at the very top the largest mountains.

It's really like isolated and it's a small place. Lindy was one of only six female inmates.

Oh my god. Yeah, can I say clearly the other day when I put up we're talking before about when I did my end of year wrap up and everything and for a judge and so climbed everest. The loveliest message about that.

Like legitimately someone actually regulations.

That's huge to me. Love that you think they can and that you know, like didn't post about it.

I moved, I did my comedy show, I did a comedy duo show. I kept doing my podcasts, I started a new podcast. Oh, and I climbed Everest and they didn't know that was psarcastic. One of the funniest things to me is how little so many people on the on the internet understand.

Psychas six inmates, only six female inmates.

Female, So that yeah, that's.

How and so like there was no female prison. It was just six female inmates in their wing of this prison. Three weeks after her incarceration, she gave birth to a baby girl.

Wow.

She and Michael made up the name Carlia so that no one could ever speculate over its meaning. Oh, sure, that interesting, Carlia. They both had Reagan Azaria a bit old, but then Aiden was their first pro which is much more common yab. Both Michael and Lindy appealed the verdicts, and two days after Carli's birth, Lindy was granted bail while the courts dealt with the appeal. Now, when you lodge an appeal, you're saying, this is the reason we

Of course, where did she go? Did she get out?

Go?

Yes? What she was allowed to go and live at a center that was run by her church in the town where her family was living. So it was like a kind of like a homestead thing. It was an education center where there were studies, so there were students, but then there were also like full time staff members that lived on site. It's kind of not a commune, but, for want of a better term, kind of like a commune. Okay. And she was allowed to go and leave there under

Well, I don't know, I don't know how they feel. I don't know how they felt.

Oh that's a good point. I've just realized when they said bastards.

They might have been angry that entire time.

They might have been saying bastards the jury for finding her guilty. Or were they saying, bastards Michael and Lindy, you killed your baby.

I don't know, you know, true, I was thinking that anyway, it doesn't matter.

Anyway, let's ask him. I'll find out his name. Yeah, they were kind of saying, why should she be allowed Adam Bayou just because she had a baby, like, you know,

Darwin and Carlia stays out with ye have to go back.

Well, I mean, look, I don't think so. There are certainly prisons where people can have their babies with them. I think maybe given that this was what October Novem, December January, February month I was six months later, perhaps not. Support for Lindy, though, was growing louder. So many opinion pieces and letters were published in newspapers in support of her that legal academics requested they be banned from being

Wow, yeah, early day Patreon exactly.

She would thank them. She would write prayers and poems to her children, including to Azaria November of that same year. So nineteen eighty three, Michael Lilundy appealed their convictions to the High Court. So you can go to the federal court, or you can go to the state Court of Appeals. Then you can go to the High Court. I think federal and then high High is the highest court that you can go to if they say no, you don't have any other avenues.

Wow.

This time the finding was two against one, okay, but only one was supporting, so the convictions were upheld. Oh wow, So there is no way unless any new evidence ever came forward. You know that she's going to be behind bars for life. She murdered her nine week old daughter and she would serve life for that after this High court attempt was failed, had failed? Sorry? Sorry?

Did they find it anything about motive in any of this? Was it just that they thought maybe was disabled? Or was it.

Rumors and speculation that came up in like kind of media commentary? I didn't see anywhere. Well, no, what I saw is that they didn't put forward a motive. Again, the same as Mushroom Lady Aaron Patterson. They said the whole time, we don't know a motive. We'll never be able to understand or know why because she's claiming she didn't do it, so we don't know why she did it, but it's definitely happened.

And that the motive there with the disability is not that's not the motive. The motive is we can't deal with this, we can't support our child through disability that we will that.

Yeah, that's the spec That was the room and the speculation that maybe because she was so little, maybe that they had found out she was disabled, they notice things that were quote unquote wrong, we're different with were and they decided, well, well, I don't know, maybe they're you

It sounds nuts that a proper motive wasn't uncovered.

Well, it hasn't been in Aaron Patison's either true. And that's the thing, right, if someone's claiming not innocent, why would they give up a motive because they say they didn't do it. I just say not innocent no, I mean not guilty, but I mean if someone is saying I'm innocent, well they're never going to put forward a motive because they said I didn't do it. Susan Neil Fraser was the same. Well, I mean that was different, I suppose because the prosecution said we think it was about money.

Yes, And this prosecution might have been like, oh, it was about this. That's like, I don't know, because.

The thing is prosecution has to prove the case. The defense doesn't have to do anything. The prosecution has to prove the case. So with something like this, what could be a motive for killing a nine week old baby? You can't uncover an affair that's going on, all money troubles or anything. So if there wasn't one, they just don't put one up because otherwise the defense can argue, well, no, there's nothing to suggest it was a disability, for instance,

I was just so heartbreaking about his area, like lost their life and was a baby.

And nine weeks old.

Oh yeah, yeah, oh my god.

Okay, Zorry, So Michael resigned as a minister with the church.

There would have been so much pressure for him to resign.

Yeah, he told the media. God will come to my aid. I'm just wondering why it's taking him so long, which seems like for a minister, like an ordained minister, that feels like the closest thing to I'm ques my belief here like that. It feels like that, I know, I put my entire life into believing in God, but He's taken a bit of time to help me.

Here sounds like the follow up song by Ray where the help my husband.

The follow up song to this case.

You know, to her song where the helps my husband, It would be with help I.

Was taking him so long?

Yeah, because it's nearly good. But I feel like I feel like with something like that, I am always so surprised when people follow God through everything and go.

Again very much to the caveat that we're not religious people.

Yeah, going, it's God's plan, this is what God wanted.

This is you know, a fucking death of a nine week on baby. Yeah, yeah, sorry, I was like, you know, do the covet we're not religious, and then I went film, Sorry, Okay, nearly there, support remained strong for Lindy. At one point a group was not not even remain strong, grew stronger. I think. At one point a group of thirty one scientists signed an open letter protesting the forensic claims made

Thing that's interesting. Thirty one Wow.

A petition with one hundred and thirty one signatures in favor of releasing Lindy just people in the public was presented to the Governor General. A forty page document was submitted asking for a royal commission. It was rejected, as was an application by Lindy for early release given her baby at home. So there she was no more grounds for appeal possible or at least allowed.

Wow, until my gosh, it's a roller.

Coaster in nineteen eighty six, thirty one year old at British Traveler.

That's four years five years after.

She was, four years after she was incarcerat because she then so it was April eighty three that her appeal was denied, she went back In thirty, one year old British traveler David Brett was exploring Ularu cuted to to national Park alone with the intention to climb Ularu. It was too hot to do so during the day, so he waited until four pm, hoping the afternoon sun would make it a bit cooler and he could do so.

Oh god.

Yeah. So again, as you said, don't do it.

David, you don't do it. Yeah.

So, yeah, he had fallen. There was no indication at all that he had been attacked. He'd fallen to his death, and then his remains had been attacked or scavenge. Rather. On February two, nineteen eighty six, park Grade just conducted a search of the area in an attempt to recover all of his bones.

Isn't that awful? Now?

The site where he was found was only one hundred and fifty meters from where our friend Wally back in nineteen had found Azaria's clothing.

Oh sure, okay, and.

That area featured many dingo layers. Wild dogs had pillaged David's backpack, and the rangers found several items of his clothing amongst the dry grass and shrubs Right near this stingo's lair. One ranger spotted something buried in the sand and bent over to inspect it to see if it was something from David's backpack as well. What he found was, Although very dirty, the heat and the dry sands of the desert land had preserved the item and left it in a decent enough condition to tell what it was.

I think it's going to be the jumpsuit.

The jumpsuit had already been found, Ah.

The jumpsit that she said that as I.

Was wearing the Matinee jackets jacket, the one that Lindy had said made tained insisted the whole time she had been wearing, and they had said, well, it's never been found. She wasn't wearing that. So you tell me how then this jumpsuit's not been ripped to shreds. The Matinee goddamn jacket six years.

After, preserved under the sand. My god, it was.

Oh it had a button even hanging from the neck by a thread. Already said this, she'd always maintained Asara was wearing the Matinee jacket. So I've written all these things, but then we go off and talk about them anyway, come back, and I could have saved all that time.

Now.

The Chamberlain's lawyer, Stuart Tipple, received a tip off about the find of the Matinee jacket, a tipple off, very good from a journalist. Yeah, so a journalist heard that, oh my god, they found a baby's knitted jacket and told the Chamberlain's lawyer, who had been the Chamberlain's lawyer. He submitted an urgent request to the Police Commissioner for access to the jacket for forensic testing so they could prove hers. The jacket was shown to Lindy on Feurbrury five,

Yes, it's what got all.

The saliva and everything. Twelve days later, another Royal commission was announced. The Chief Minister of the Northern Territory directed Lindy to be immediately released on prison from prison on remission, allowing her unrestricted access to legal advisors in preparation. So it wasn't they hadn't quashed her convictions, but they said there is enough here that we're going to allow you

Wow.

So yeah, she was able to go home to her family, back to that same area, including her now four year old daughter Klia.

Wow.

The Royal Commission Number three began later that year and went.

For fourteen months months. Yeah.

Justice Trevor Mauling found which mauling is a horrible name for Yeah, this really is. Yeah, it's spelt like that too. It made ul found that the prosecution's case had relied heavily on expert testimony that dingoes were unlikely to enter attent and attack a child, but acknowledged that they hadn't taken into account that the Ularu dingoes were difficult were

Up to be a lot as recently happened.

So this this coroner essentially said that wasn't taken into account in the murder trial. He rejected assertions that Lindy Chamberlain was a bad mother, all that she might have been suffering from postnatal depression, stating there were no signs to show that at all. She had never manifested any symptoms to suggest she might be violent towards anyone of

Be blood just saliva or something.

It was paint paint according to this coroner. Oh, like this is what we're saying about, like waterproofing paint. Oh so this is always saying about like you're getting different experts for different things. I suppose, especially in the eighties science obviously you know, blasts ahead very quickly.

Yea.

For all these forensic experts have said, yeah, it could be blood, and a coron has gone no, I except that it could.

Be it's most likely paint.

Wow, she likes non spawn unless you want to see as expert, that's what.

The coroner declared. The prosecution had provided no evidence of the Chambers Chamberlain's guilt and he absolved them of any responsibility daughter's death.

Imagine that fourteen months of her waiting.

That was all going on. This could be happening, but I can't gart like, I can't get excited because it didn't happen last time. The Northern Territory government offered both Michael and Lindy a pardon. Now do you know the difference between a pardon and an acquittal. So pardon essentially means they are forgiven for their crimes, like, you don't have to spend any more time. We'll let you go.

We'll let you off.

Basically means we'll let you off rather than we accept you didn't do it.

Okay, sure, but what.

It means a part of means the conviction isn't quashed. So it's still on their record that still goes like the cause of death on her death certificate still says that they're just pardoned.

Oh okay.

The chamberlains fought this. They were absolutely not We're not going down for this in the eyes of the law anything. And in September nineteen eighty eight, when I was just a wee bub I was born in August Eightio, the Northern Territory Court of Appeals finally officially agreed to quash their convictions.

My god, so.

Yeah, in September nineteen eighty eight. It was August nineteen eighty that Azariah died.

Wow, and you're going to just walk away from a pardon and go.

Well, yea exactly, that's what they said. They're like, no, there is a big difference between being in ascent.

Yeah.

Correct. They Suedary government seeking four million dollars for pain suffering and loss of wages in nineteen ninety two, so these took the years Jesus Christ exactly. They were granted compensation of for Lindy nine hundred thousand and for Michael four hundred thousand, So that asked for four million. Yeah, sure they got one point three, okay, But the weirdest part to me is that Lindy got nine hundred thousand compensation and Michael got four hundred.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

Like, sorry, Lindy was the one that was.

Incarcerated and accused of.

That must be a thing about the wage loss because Lindy didn't make as much money about it when he was full time care for the children, that it must be that.

You'd also think the legal fees must come into that as well, like that should be another thing on top of.

Well no, well yeah, I don't know now. When questioned about why this was so much less than the lower than the four million dollars that they had sought, a spokesperson for the Attorney General said the government had no legal obligation to pay them anything.

Oh my god.

So I think there's still this like just disdain towards them, and I think especially the Northern Territory government and police are angry that and embarrassed probably that this back and forth and.

Back and forth. But also I think that the mistreatment and the early images and how Lindy behaved and like we always say, you don't know how you're going to behave in a situation until you're there. The way that she spoke, the way she wore, the sunglasses. I reckon, people have got this entrench knowledge of her, yes and not, and it's so stubborn that they're not ever going to see then when.

They go, but hang on. Six years later, a jacket was found with saliva as well. She said she had been wearing and people go, n no, something I just did. I believe it. I reckon it was still her. People goes to us, I still recognize her. Yeah, anyway, it's still not finished. We nearly, I promise we nearly are.

Enjoy it. Survey monkey just then everyone's doing it.

Digs is asleep. That must mean he likes it.

Hey.

We actually had one of our listeners messaged me on Instagram saying your voice is very relaxing, and I was like, oh, thank you. I know, like I've got a weird unique, very deep voice. It's nice to hear that. It's relaxing to you. She goes, yeah, I listened to your other podcast. Everyone else has an X to go to sleep every night. That's great, and then she guys, and I was listening to this one in the car the other day and I felt myself getting tired and I was like, oh too, voice.

Not and there I think it would be such a huge thing as well, and such a kick to the professional people that go for another one to be escalated and that's found wrong for the other one. And also like I imagine the High Court and Supreme Court as well overturn that imagine those people were originally.

It almost does feel a bit political, doesn't It does? It does, but it feels that personally to me that it's like, oh, we can't you can't prove it was definitely a dingo. Like, Okay, we can't prove that Lindy did it, so we'll say she didn't do it, but we can't prove that it was a dingo, so let's just say we don't know.

Yeah, yeah, seems like a good cop out.

But the story doesn't end there. A decade after that, in two thousand and four, the Azaria Chamberlain case made headlines yet again. Seventy eight year old Melbourne man Frank Cole said that he had been at Ularu on August seventeen, nineteen eighty, when he and his two companions came across a dingo carrying a baby in its jaws. So the baby's face and ear were badly mutilated and her head was covered in blood. Frank claimed he shot the dingo and the three men washed and cleaned the baby what.

It's also not a case that you would not if you were alone. Yes, not have not heard of this is.

Come forward about it in two thousand.

And four, Frank, it's an ex.

Boyfriend of mine's name. I've said that said many times with just as much anger. But after suffering a serious accident in two thousand and four, he felt, at seventy eight years old, he had to clear his conscience. Oh, Franks two companions had since passed away, meaning there was no one to validate his claims. Now the home of where the alleged burial site might have been, had they.

Have brought the baby back to Melbourne.

Exactly, I just to be like, if it's on our property, people won't just come across it. Is the idea. Yeah, that place that Frank had said he thinks it might have been buried had since undergone major extensions, and it's new owner told police they could only dig on his property if they produced tangible evidence of what they expected to find. Essentially, they would have had to knock down

Frank's story, right, Okay.

They definitely couldn't provide tangible evidence.

And bizarre thing to make up though.

Yeah, but he might have you know, yeah, a seventy eight year old man he'd just had a serious accident, might have got a head knock. You've told me stories about how your grandpa on his deathbed started confessing to all his murders, which which we don't believe. I mean, I believe you them. I think it's great. You know, older people and they've had head knocks and all sorts of things. We've spoken in so many other cases as well about people just wanting headlines and wanting to be

Being destroyed by the loss of their nine week or baby and.

Then years and years and years. Michael Chamberlain said, I do forgive the man if he's telling the truth, and I'd be happy for him not to be prosecuted because he has carried a very big cross for a long time. Both the Northern Territory and Victoria Police, because he was a Melbourne man, agreed to investigate Frank's claims, but nothing, With nothing to substantiate his story, it was dismissed and ultimately went nowhere.

The backyard is not going to be dune up than and of.

Course Sammy, there is still one more updates to come. The Chamberlain's continued campaigning to clear their names over the years. Although the last inquest had returned their presumption of innocence, they sought full exoneration. They wanted to be if they wanted the death certificate to say it's not unknown how

It's that penny one. Nopeep.

The following year, Northern Territory Deputy Coroner Elizabeth Morris announced that new revelations regarding dingo behavior had emerged, so she would be opening another in quest.

Oh my god, seventeen.

That quest commenced in February twenty twelve. It was much smaller.

Okay, okay.

It's centered around a series of dingo attacks that had occurred against children on Fraser Island, a popular tourist destination off the coast of Queensland. Okay, so there had been between twenty and one and twenty eleven, there had been a nine year old boy killed by dingo and two little girls aged three and four severely bitten.

Wow.

So, as they said earlier, there's not a lot known about dingos because they are so why apart from the London guy, they're so I mean, there's more known now, but they're so wild. Yes, they haven't really been able to be studied. That well and all that closely. So, yeah, there are loof as they're a loofer. As everyone always says, dingos, there are a loof.

I'd love to get to know what it is.

Let me at least sentence off of it, so to me want to work out what you're trying to say. New dingo research had also been done over all of these years, which finally proved they actually did prey on larger mammals like wallabies, which are about the size of Anne we called baby. In June twenty twelve, the coroner handed down the finding that she was satisfied Azaria had been taken by a dingo.

Wow.

Now, I mean, this is just a little titbit here. I find it interesting that the first female yes, yeah, coroner or judge involved in any of this is the one that, well, sorry, no, that's unfair to the very first coroner who said the same thing. Yeah, okay, Well he didn't say it's definitely a dingo, but he said it's definitely not Lindy. Remember he was the one that said there could have been I think the dingo took her and then someone else might have interfered and hidden

Now.

By this time, Lindy and Michael had separated and had both since remarried. Lindy went on to release a book that was originally titled Through My Eyes. She later changed the title to The Dingo's Got My Baby. I think publishers were like a human bag, you know, come on, I know.

Yeah.

Also, yes, they didn't. They said no to that because it's terrible. In this book, she spoke obviously about her experience of all of it. What happened she said. Revealed in the book as well that she and Michael had actually been speaking about separating before all of this happened. They and he supported her through it all, but they just the marriage just didn't have you passed throughout it?

No interesting, Yeah.

Yeah, it would be from researching this story, like you know, obviously heard lots of parts from that. But no, I haven't read it. You should read it, you're in your true crime reading era.

Helen Ghana wrote it, absolutely, no, you definitely would.

Michael Chamberlain sadly passed away in twenty seventeen from leukemia. I will finish this Mammoth episode with a quote from the Age newspaper that explored an article explored the gendered nature of the criticism that surrounded Lindy, and it said many of those who believed Lindy Chamberlain guilty maintained that the baby had been killed in some kind of obscure sacrificial ritual. So it is deeply ironic that the trial itself turned to be a sacrificial ritual on a national scale.

That is it's so insane to look at that as as the whole story. Because I also look at like even your Reagan being in the tent, Yeah, going happ up.

To a dingo. But again I'm the same thing. Dingo walks in, goes sweet, a baby, grabs her in its mouth, killed her instantly.

Like that's has Reagan ever said anything?

Not found whom I found looking at this the most interesting thing I found because such a famous story in Australia I knew that she'd been found guilty and then exonerated. Yes, I did not know the background of the This inquest said this, then the next one said this, then the trial said this, that an inquest said this. I didn't know there was that many parts. And that was another thing that anger from the public as well really was exacerbated by the fact that they had been so many

Sound guilty every time?

Yeah? Well, yeah exactly. And then when she was bailed, when she was granted bail while guilty, Yeah, I mean we know now she wasn't guilty, but you know, when she had had baby Klia and was let out, well, the appeal was being dealt with everyone's like, well, hang on, why have we spent money on two inquests and a trial just to let her out on bail anyway, Like you're wasting everyone's money, So that that really contributed to the hatred for her as well.

Yeah, it is. And like I said at the start, like you know, the Amanda Knock story, like it is such that.

I wouldn't let you say it then, but it is such.

A it's such an interesting thing to go because she didn't behave in the way that everyone expected, and that was.

The Australian media as well. That's why I find that an interesting comparison to And I think it's like, here's me just jumping on my feminist stool.

Stool, Yeah, on your stool.

No pedestal, pedestal which is not pedestal. Those I said stool, you know, I was looking at this stool place next me to put my chans on pedestal of media people Australians just don't like women. Joe Anne Lee's the one, so Peter Falconie's girlfriend, and Linda Chamberlain is Aaron Chamblain's mother were not guilty. It has been proven they were not guilty, but still in people's minds we go I

I also, yeah, I also found it really interesting that it is still a joke, like you know, this is a kind of a comedy crime podcast. But you know we love we we love the people that we talk about. You know, there's there's the victims. We're always talking about the victims. We're only talking about the victims in a way.

And is the thing Lindy is a victim in there?

Yes, and and and it's a joke like people put on an Australian accent because it's what they know. They know, but they might not know the the horror because, like I said, how awful would that be to go not only are you your your baby has been taken, and then you're looked at and.

It's looked at like spat on in this street first looked at.

Imagine you first being there going me, why am I?

I told you my mother, I'm the last person in the whole world that would do that.

I told you.

And I'm the one that saw the fucking dinko, mate, what do you mean I didn't I saw it?

Yeah, Oh it is horrible to think of that. And also like you know that, I imagine relationships changed, Like even said that the friend dubbed the the dog blood blood andbed her in them were like.

Wow, there was there were blood on the there was blood on the tracks, so she didn't tell me there was, so that she's a physiding something.

And so relationships would change. I mean, I wonder, do you know what happened with Lindy after she was released? Did she did she have a career, was she able to she remarried? I didn't know anything.

She remarried. She interestingly became very very very close friends with one of the jurors from her trial. So one of the jurors said she felt sick about the whole thing and reached out to Lindy saying, you know, I'm so sorry that I was part of that, and they kind of became penpals and then became like best friends. Wow, which is it? Like that really shows you know, again, we're not religious people, but something I find very really beautiful and I almost quite envy about people who have

Yeah yeah.

I would never forgive someone that found me guilty of murdering if I hadn't done it.

Yeah, I know. But also you look at how Australia was at that time, Like you look at that and go, well everyone thought she was guilty. Yeah, look, I'm I I heard of the story, like I think everyone in Australia particularly has heard of this story.

And it happened before you were born. Yeah yeah, well before I was born as well, but we know.

We know of it. Yeah where when did when did John Benet Ramsey? When when was John Bene Ramsey murdered? Because of nineties nineties.

I've just said that that was a complete I regul art me google.

Yeah, because I remember at the start, you know, we talked about you know, the did the brother you know, was the brother? I remember that was a kind of a a thought at the start. Did the brother accidentally you know, do something?

And yeah that's yeah, that's one of those kind of widely held beliefs. Yeah, widely held. I reckons ninety six, ninety six.

Yeah, okay, it was on Boxing Day.

Maybe we should hold that.

Yeah, yeah, we'll be a fascinating one to do. But you and I do find it really interesting about Lindy Chamberlain and that name. Everyone kind of knows that name in Australia, ye, Like you know the name Lindy Chamberlain. Oh yes, And that's so even.

That's interesting in itself, isn't it that we were like, oh, well we'll do this episode and you said, oh, you should do Lindy Chamberlain. Well, why don't we think of it as as the Azaria Chamberlain story. We'll call the episode a Zaria Chamberlain.

Yeah.

Yeah, but it is Lindy Chamberlain. Is the name that's synonymous with this case.

Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, that was fascinating.

I know that you love the simsims and some Felds, and also the phrases, yes, phrases. I was trying to make a joke, but I said it correctly. Can you write into all of your idols and mentors who work on those shows and tell them that they were wrong for making the dingle ate my baby joke?

Yeah? Absolutely, I didn't know that Seinfeld and praise of it.

According to my Yeah, let me go to that as well.

That's really interesting that they maybe.

The Simpsons simps, because that was the that was the Australian episode.

Where there were so many Australian I.

Could hear Jerry Seinfeld saying it, I reckon, yeah, Dingo hate your baby? Yeah yeah, And I know it was Elaine sorry, Jerry Seinfeld. Yeah, and I can hear her saying it now.

Yeah, right, okay.

They were trying to blend in at a party in episode. The episode is called the Strandard And this is fun stuff, isn't it. It's lucky, it's it's been a short episode.

You've been able to in the world you got And we're going to be doing the mail Band very very soon. Just so you know, we're just going to let the g Love Google live the Fraser the Fraser episode as well, because she is absolutely love.

I'm a Googler.

She's a Googler from way back. You got five.

Seconds Niles learns to be a good parent. Apparently it's in that.

What a great fact. Apparently it's in that. Anyway.

I think that's wrong. I don't think it was all right.

Well, look, we're gonna let's give up on that.

We might have been an episode. Good.

We're going to come back short break and we're gonna do it.

Got your baby, he said, Nile said it.

I'm so glad we went through all of that so you could hear we heard the exact quote.

They said it correctly. That's why that's why my Google search didn't turn it up because I.

I see wonderful stuff. We'll be back after break with the mail bag. Thank you everybody for listening this week to the Lindy Chamberlain episode. G did an amazing job with that and.

Sorry it was so long. Hey never job he actually listeners. Do you like the long episodes or do you prefer them like short and sharp?

Yeah?

You tell us, yeah, because if you don't like them that long, it's much easier for us.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know twice as much.

But don't be afraid to tell us if you do love the long ones as well.

Yeah. Don't be afraid. Never be afraid. Afraid at Sammy at justinnother company, dot com dot au if you want to write in, or you can leave us a speak pipe. All of the links are below.

I just want to say they're allowed to be afraid in their like you know about other things. Yeah, because we do talk about murderers and stuff for this, So you're allowed to be afraid at times. But don't be afraid to write into us.

That is correct.

You can also do so on Instagram and TikTok at not Another Crime Podcast. You must leave us five star rating. You must. This is a five star review.

Good girl, you did.

Thank you all right.

We've got some letters today. This one comes from Laura. Hi, Sammy and g Love, Sammy Peterson, I implore you to read out our previous email. If you haven't, I've missed it. Please excuse my wretchedness.

My wretchedness. I love that.

This wasn't why I email, though, I need to let you know that I wish I went to Billy Ocean with you guys, since I convinced my husband to and he just made fun of me the whole time. Because of the crowd, I was now associated with a Yes.

We brought the crowd median age down to about yes.

Also hugely here for a morbid crossover. Wishing you guys a wonderful holiday period and a very happy new Year. I love you guys, Laura, this is original remail. I feel like we did read it, but maybe we didn't.

Oh my god, Laura, if you just didn't listen.

God, Hi, Sammy and g Love and obviously Missy Diggins and Poudry Hepburn. Longtime listener, first time caller. Listening to you both every week makes my commute to and from working absolute delight. You're the perfect blend of the good, the bad and the ugly, whilst maintaining that strong level of respect to both the family, So the victims and their family.

Diggs walked out when you said ugly.

He didn't like that. I'm also letting you know ahead of this, with recent discussions of an m dash being a dead giveaway that chat GPT is being utilized and as an avid m dash user, I am mortified. I promise you, I am not ai. I just love a sexy little diatrical mark.

Oh.

Whenever you mention your love for both Kangaroo Island and Tasmania, I'm briefly reminded of my family of the time my family and I were living on Norfolk Island and the first murder since one hundred and fifty years was committed of a one Janelle pattern. If you haven't heard much about it before, not many have. Norfolk Island is a tiny external territory of Australia located in the Pacific Ocean, its smack bang between Australia and New Zealand, roughly eight

Laura, was it you?

Well?

You is? This is a confession?

It could be, although I don't remember a lot being maybe this is the way. I didn't read the email the first time, being only ten at the time. I do remember evidence being found out the front of our very house, Laura Janelle's sunglasses.

Laura, if you are oh no, actually the criminal culpability ages yea, you say, Laura, let us know about this murder.

Mum and Dad were questioned and along with everyone else on the island, they were fingerprinted. No one was allowed to leave the island until ran to permission. I hope you find it interesting enough to look into it or read up on. They did eventually find a killer as.

It wasn't Laura, it wasn't Laura.

As a part of a palate cleanser, I've attached a photo of my pooch, Norman Norman Baits.

Norman Baits, the crime Girlie Well wishes Laura and there's.

Oh beautiful blazer black spaniels see Spaniel.

I think, yeah, he's only beautiful. Oh camera right there. If you watching us on YouTube, I have a joke for you.

They're not allowed. If they're not allowed to celebrate Santa on Christmas Island and they don't believe in the Easter Bunny on Easter Island, what on earth is the belief system on Norfolk Island?

Nice one.

I think it's meant to be worded better than that, but I was trying to remember it on the fly.

This one comes from Ellen Ellen.

Allen, Ellen, Ellen. We've had an Ellen message before, haven't we.

I think so?

Yeah? Am I doing what you did that time? I'm just assuming everyone has the same.

Think everyone has the same name. Hi, Geordean and say I've been listener since the start and look forward to a new episode every Monday and Thursday. I just want to say thank you for continuing the podcast throughout the holiday period. Not everyone gets time off. Shout out to our frontline workers, and it's really nice you guys have

Hopefully you're not falling asleep.

Like I have a suggestion for a new South Wales case the murder of Matthew Dunbar aka the widow of Walker Natasha Darcy. She actually put the pronunciation in there for me, which was actually thank you. I love all listeners when they do that. Natasha Darcy. Some of the details Natasha Darcy's methods, previous offenses and details around her life will give Georgia, will have Georgia exclaiming fuck off.

Oh my god, I can't believe this has been famous. Cry.

They are bonkers things like googling ninety nine undetectable poisons and the science of murder.

And you have to do this story then, Sammy s I can exclaim my.

Fat fuck off. And the fact that she tried to kill her previous husband and nearly got away with it. Oh fascinating.

I love the gods, Ellen, I love Yeah, I love that, Sam And can you do that one?

Absolutely? And also do you have a little speak pot Oh? Yes, one comes from our good good friend VICKI. It's a short one. Love the pod. I just had to leave a message after listening to the Candy Man episode today.

Gee, I think you mean complicit when you see implicit. Oh thank you. When did I say implicit, must say someone was implicit? I take it back. Yeah, you will admit my errors if I said implicit, loves it out if I said that.

If I said no, I must I said that because.

You know what, I know that all my listeners would not call me out on.

Anything unless you clear, Ricky, call it again.

I need to get in trouble all the time from my x husband because I always talk about my wedding. That's great, actually funny is my ex husband.

Okay, say real quickly as well. I've got one more. I've got one more to do, my god.

Yeah, it's the word longest episode.

It's not it's fine. It's everyone's having a good time. Okay, all right, and please do write into this quick. I love hearing from you. This one comes from Maria, Hi, Sammy and Georgia just want to say thanks for your podcast. Nothing better than a one episode tell all, especially for us who can't be bothered sitting through long winded stories. Also also a thought for a Thursday treat. One case

Okay, my poordry peep. Today's coffee related great mark my word. You know this is true because I said, before we started recording the mailbag, I said, wait, let me look up my powdry people. I'm not having to look at my phone during it. So I already knew what it was. It is baby chinos. Okay, yep, some of our listeners might not know what that is. A baby chino is

Sorry, I said baby, I meant bubba.

I just it's most fucking ridiculous cash's.

Milk.

Really, they're like three dollars or something, stupid, even if they were ten cents stupid. I think the baby does not need a coffee at the fucking coffee shop.

I understand why the cafe charges that much to make it, because they're burning, but they're also burning milk, and it's like such a waste.

Yeah, they don't want it, yeah exactly, but yeah, but yeah, aud your.

Baby, but drink to have with you at the coffee at the show. I know I'm going to get so much hate for that.

Well, I am mine is today dog owners that don't pick up their dog poop.

Oh my god, we're both both both baby related pee.

Related. But yeah, so oh god, because I'm you know, I'm a big got, a big boy and a big dog, and I've got a big dog, big mother, and I always picked up his dog poo. And when people don't, I'm always.

Like, if someone came across Digs as dog poop just sitting there, oh my god, there'd be riots.

And they know as well they can put me, they can find.

One, because it's like the size of human.

Yeah, yes, that's my poetry.

I must sag. I love dogs. Whenever I take Digs for a walk and he poos, I go, oh yeah, probably I don't mind not having a dog. Yeah, I really hate that.

You was just fine. Your cat just poos in the house. Love to clean up it is easy.

She boos it a little like sound train and just scoop it straight into the toilet. I have to touch it with my hands. You touch, you pick up.

When I'm not there, when you're there, I love it.

I think we're fighting guys. I'm sorry this episode has been too long, and this is what I also.

Ta the Cavena Christmas episode. There was a couple of glitches in the episode. I feel it's fixed now, but it was just an export ishoe, so apologies if you listen to that one. There's a little bit of a glitch in their to.

The One and Only Katie Love for live reacting the editing issues to me as she listens to them, and I ignored her, pretending I couldn't write back because I was driving. I also then listened to it and also noticed.

I would also like to say that I'm doing a filming of some stand up trying some new jokes. That'll be on the seventeenth of January. It's a local tap house at two pm if.

Which is Kilder in Melbourne. Tickets are only bloody ten bucks, guys. That's like less than.

The beer will cost you to have.

Come on long when you have a laugh a laugh. I'll be there, She'll be there perhaps.

But anyway, anyway, well, thank you to Oliver Clark as always for doing the theme music. Thank you to Tams and Hayes for doing the artwork. We've had a lovely time and we'll be seeing you this coming Thursday.

We see in all familiar.

Don't forget to write, don't forget to live.

I'm tired. I'm a bit tired.

Actually, goodbye, everybody. Have a great weak mate.