Welcome to Not Another Crime Podcast.
I'm Georgia Love, I'm Tammy Peterson, and the I'm a journalist, I am not, and you are.
Scott Williams, the official out of Visual, third host.
Of the podcast, host of the podcast Wheel.
Everyone's Favorite is back.
We can't get enough of you.
You can't get enough of writing stories, and our listeners cannot get enough of you.
Good lord, it's so true. A little bit about writing stories.
The chlorine.
That's the return of the judgmental reading glasses, the return of the clipboard clipboard.
So good. Did you buy this clipboard specifically for the podcast?
I didn't, but I think I'm going to get some stickers from the lady that sent you stickers.
Yes, we love Claude so much.
She gave us some beautiful stickers of And that's Digs in the background.
They're having a little drink.
If you can hear that, yeah, if you can.
G The other day was like when we're recording or recording the other day and it was really hot out and I had the water ball inside for the time in a very long time, and was like, it's just nice to have the water ball inside.
And then.
Then and then he started drinking during the podcast. Oh that's why we don't inside. That's the world.
Yeah, really good. Actually, we've been moving house. We've had a lot of been a very exciting time just about to go on Christmas.
Break from moving is an exciting time.
That can be. It's hard work, right yeah, yeah, but we all putched in and we got it done and we'll get settled in the new house and it's gonna be great.
It's gonna be great. It's gonna be fantastic. But it's it's so exhausting moving as well. And then when you get everything in there, you're like, oh now I have to unpack everything. That's the other people where you're like, but you know what, it's gonna be great.
And I don't know why I'm talking it down so much.
In a month's time, none of it will matter.
None of it's gonna matter. Careful right there, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
Yeah, actually for anyone it's a very straight look at my arm.
It doesn't matter.
Imagine if I message you when I was moving and just going just come around for a podcast. Everything boxes, Well, you don't like a few boxes when you're all on deck?
Yeah, Oh no, I hate moving. Well, I unpacking. I don't mind, because I like kind of.
Setting up a new place.
But you've got a pack to then be.
Able to unpack.
That's Julia. I get like the fact that I've been in the house for three days and I'm not completely unpacked stresses Oh yeah, I'm a person that can't leave work at the end of the day with emails unread.
Yeah, okay, look it's too much for you.
I look at some of my friends emailing boxes at work and I'm like, you've got nineteen hundred unread emails.
I can't when I look at someone's phone.
That stresses me out so much when they have like eighty unread messages and unread emails as well, I just want to go and help them with it.
Let me clear, clear it out, reply to people.
Maybe there could be like an air tasker service, clear out my inbox just me.
I'd just come around. Just let me know if you're going to come. Yeah, give me a glass of wine.
I'll be there.
Yeah, you don't need to pay through the app jam give.
Me three glasses of one. I'll start replying.
Trunk and replies to people we'd never ever met.
Quit for you, I'll abuse your boss whatever you want.
So I believe. I believe, because I believe through listener that you guys are working through the holidays.
We are.
So I brought your story today, but I thought, just for fun, i'd give you some Christmas facts before.
Oh great, Chris.
The story doesn't have anything to do with Christmas, but I thought some fun Christmas facts.
It is with the Christmas facts, all right.
Here's the first one. Did you know that the reindeer in the song off the Red Nose Reindeer are all pairs that compliment each other in some way?
No, so don't explain that, I can.
Donna and Blitzen can you expand? Please?
You're working, Please explain.
Donna and Blitzen are Old English names for lightning and thunder. Dancer and prans are both words that refer to dancing with joy or abandoned.
Yeah.
One igat dasher is an Old English name for comets and comment. Oh, and Cupid and vic represent the naughty and nice sides of love.
Oh really, when you started, I thought you were talking about the fruit pear. Oh, they will relate to a type of pair, some sort of apple with some sort of pair. I've the that's great, and also can I do share a fact?
It's always on the twenty fifth of December? What is Christmas?
Yes?
Is it where the moon is?
Yep?
No matter where the moon.
No matter where the moon is.
Matter.
I'm learning a lot.
Can happen the name of your autobiography no matter with George Love somewhere between the New Moon y.
I Love a really vague title and it never comes back.
To Georgia Love.
We discovered the other day. I say we discovered.
I discovered it and then sent you many picture screenshots of the article because I loved it so much. There was a feature piece on Rhonda birch More. Her memoir is called Legs eleven.
That's exact.
It's amazing, isn't a beautiful but Roonder birch More amazing like in Australia, like the person in every musical, every Carol's in the domain every She's just such a She's been around for ages, but I would not She's always kind of looked the same.
Yeah, she always looks.
The term that we're use in my family that would be her, Which is she's world famous.
In Australia, Yes, the world famous Rob Milton mills, rob.
One John or John. So do you know that if you add up at the gifts in the twelve Days of Christmas, it's three hundred and sixty four gifts, one for each day of the year, that are all presented on Christmas Day.
Really, my God, when he gets to the pears.
Get and then finally, did you know that, in fact, all the gifts in the twelve Days of Christmas are birds? All of it? Would you like me to show my working out? Three workings partridge in a pear tree, two turtle dubs, three French hens, four calling birds. By now you're the girl getting the president, so you're thinking, that's a lot.
Of a lot of birds here.
Five gold rings refers to ring necked pheasants.
Of course that was the only good president of all of them. I thought you got five gold rings.
So six geese laying seven to one swimming eight maids. Milking refers to egrets, specifically cattle egrets, which are called what.
They what they what?
What I'm telling you cattle egrets which are called that by locals because they follow the cattle around and sit on their backs and they all steal milk from their artists. Milking ye. Nine ladies dancing refers to a bird called lapwings. There's all English a bird called lap wings, which are common called dancing lap wings or dancing ladies because of the elaborate aerial displays they used to communicate lap dancing. Nine ladies dancing known as lap dancing. It's probably not
where nap dancing comes from. I wouldn't more obvious the lady dances on your lap would be. I think you might be wrong there, Sorry, sorry, mate, I apologize. Ten lords are leaping. It refers to cuckoos. Cuckoos at the time were called leaping birds, and leaping was a form of deception. Cuckoos are well known to lay their eggs in other birds nests and leave them for the other birds to hatch and raise.
Oh come on.
Ten lords are leaping. Eleven pipers piping plovers.
Lovers a beautiful gift forever.
Due to the call that they say out they make, which sounds like a pipe, which.
Now it doesn't. It sounds like a lady screaming.
Well anywhere from Philip wouldn't know it. I don't know if there's anyone here today. And twelve drummers.
Twelve drummers sorry, I'm thinking the plovers don't sound like peoples are lady screaming?
That's curlews, curls.
And twelve drummers. Drumming refers to grouse who are named ground drummers because of the noise that is their mating call. Wow. So back to the last fact, it's three hundred and sixty four birds that the lady gets given.
There's too many birds.
That's a lot of birds to give someone if you love them.
It's a lot of to give someone if you hate it.
Yeah, but if you hate them, it's more fun fun. Oh my god, four birds I don't like.
I didn't know that. I didn't know they were all birds in that.
Yeah.
So is Alfred Hitchcock's movie The Birds a Christmas movie could be?
Yes, it's one of those Christmas movie right with Gremlins.
What's your go to Christmas movie?
By the way, I love National Lampoons.
Oh yeah, lovely.
Yeah, I have reindeer eggnonglasses.
Oh oh great, because Jesus you got two that you watch every year.
Well, my, they're in my favorite movies of all time, let alone Christmas movies, and they obviously love actually and elf.
Okay, excellent, two of my top movies. So last time I was here, I ruined disney Land. Yes, I'm not going to make any comments. I'm not going to make any comments. I'm actually I am not going to make it.
Yeah comments and I throw them out.
Yeah, fair enough to She's with its rom com.
It's movie, it's fiction.
It's fine, it's fine. Grow up, just grow up.
People.
Speaking of stories and documentaries, let me tell you a story. So if this story was a Netflix documentary, it would start with the sweeping shot of the Great Alpine National Park, starting at the base of Australia's Great Dividing Range, just outside of Bensdale, all the way up to Mount Ksiosko. The Alpine National Park protects over one point six million
acres of Australian high country. Then the camera would sweep in and start to focus on one section of the park, the One and Gata Valley, the southern It's not the story you think is. The southern end borders towns like Mansfield, the skifields of Mount Buller and the majesty of Mount Stirling. Campsites dot the landscape with places with names that we know like wild Dog Bend and one and Gatda. But as beautiful as the willness is, it is equally unforgiving.
Every year hikers and day trippers find themselves in trouble needing to be rescued. People go missing, either because they want to like the alleged killer Desie Freeman, or through accident or misadventure. Occasionally people are even murdered. Campus report strange encounters, huge wild dogs, and even panthers. Panthers and one rumor is shared in huss whispers around campfires more
than all the others. Today, we're going to look at four mysterious cases from the Victorian High Country, specifically in the area in and around one and Gather, and we're going to delve into the true story of the button Man, The.
Button Man, The Buttonman, The button Man.
Now you did I didn't look into this because you did message me to say do you know about the button man? Absolutely doesn't sound threatening, but it doesn't sound threatening.
Wow, button Man. Now do you want to say what you were thinking of when.
When you said one again?
Are you thinking? Girl? And Carol Clay Let's we'll get to that.
And that's why gasp, because I was like, we have to be careful because it's now been his conviction has been quashed.
We're going to mention it, okay, because it happened in one in Gata Valley. Yes, okay. So in twenty seventeen, a wildlife photographer spent several days in the high Country. The area is really well known for amazing fauna like wedge tailed eagles, wombats, a kidners and many different types of Australian parrots.
You're a little bit obsessed with birds today.
A little bit of birds bead for gift. The photographer had a successful trip, enjoyed spending his time alone in the bush, and on his return home he started downloading images from his camera. Good for him. In the middle of a download was an image which made his blood run hold.
A photo of digs running in the bush.
It was a photo of the inside of his tent, captured with the glare of the camera flash. The picture showed him sleeping peacefully. What sucked into his sleeping and completely unaware of the presence of another person.
No, God, that is terrified.
The man knew he had gone to sleep with his camera hanging right next to his pillow. Oh my god, it took The photo had silently entered the tent, picked up the camera, taken the shot, and then put the camera back without being noticed.
That is awful, so terrifying.
Yep. The photographer posted the photo to read it asking if anyone had could help solve this mystery.
And you know what, Reddit are always a fun yeah, the best place to go.
Amongst the comments and helpful suggestions like a panther or a yowie, there was one reply which really stuck out.
The people that were saying it was probably a yowie that took the photo. That is helpful.
That is super helpful. It might have been a panther.
Yeah, yeah, someone had to have constructed the yowi first and beautiful photo.
So there was one reply which really struck out. You met the button man. Consider self lucky. He was in a playful moo, what my god? What?
Who the hell is this button man?
The button Man is not a legend, he's not folklore, but he's an actual man now in his seventies who's known to police. Police have confirmed that they have interviewed him on two occasions. He has never been a suspect in any High Country cases, and the police have been at pains to explain that he has no criminal record, but the rumors of his exploits persist.
I don't like this button like this button Man.
We're going to come back to the button Man soon, but first we're going to look at some of the mysteries of the Victorian high Country.
I'm scared the button Man's just lurking in the background while you're talking about all this.
Yeah, I don't like but we each live on our own.
Yes, he listened A long way from here. The one and gat of Valley is a long way.
Yeah, that's true.
The button Man travel a lot.
Of birds in this Warren Meyer disappeared on Easter Sunday two thousand and eight. He was a fifty seven year old experienced hunter and bushman. He set off from dom Dom Saddle intending to go on a four hour bushwalk.
Dom Dom Saddle's a great place, though.
Yeah. He was carrying a phone, a GPS, additional food and water. He had set a time with his wife to meet her for a celebratory drink after the hike, but he never made it to the meeting place and he never came home.
Oh God.
Searchers started immediately. His car was found exactly where it should have been. During the police search, they stumbled upon a commercial marijuana crop hidden in the dense bush. N campers who were questioned consistently mentioned hearing something that sounded like automatic gunfire echoing through the bush, not a sound normally associated with camping or hunting. Police had suspicions that Warren may have also stumbled into the crop, and before
he could leave or explain himself, he was shot. Warren Meyer's body has never been found. Wow In twenty eleven, David Prudeau went missing on June the fifth. David was the governor of bow And Prison, a high security prison in Lara needs Long. David was an experienced deer hunter and had set out into the high country along Blackspur Track at around seven am. He was dropped off by his brother in law, who would be hunting in a
different area close by. Then there was nothing oh. David and his brother in law had agreed to regular radio checkings. When the first two did not come, David's brother in law assumed that he was on deer stalk and he would reply once the stalk was over, But he never responded.
Dear stalk, like dear John, Like when you're at a letter.
Dear dear, you're dying. Oh, dear dear, I've probably got no idea where this guy is. David Pud's out into the high country had taken him through an area of the locals called the Crossroads. Several major bush racks bush tracks meet at the crossroads. It's a high point in the One and Gata Valley and there's a phone tower, which mean he can has taken advantage of to checking. The crossroads are also well known to be close to the area of the Button Man's camp and the area
that he claims is his territory. But Man rumours say that the hermit has established a camp in a cave nearby. He uses the high vantage point to watch the comings and goings of people in his bushland. The Button Man is said to pay particular attention to hunters, watching and sometimes tracking them while they track animals, making sure that they treat the native land and animals with respect.
Several mixed feelings now about the Button Man.
No, I don't think he's treating people with respect. He's taking photo them in their sleep.
Yeah, it's for animals.
Several hunters of told tales of sitting around their campfires and the button man suddenly just being there approach, he's just suddenly standing at the camp.
He's made of buttons.
He'll sit down at the fire, uninvited and question the hunt has never really really revealing anything about himself. Then he will stand and silently disappear. Back into the book.
Oh my god, terrifying.
I hate this story.
That image of Homer.
But back to David P. Day, the missing governor of Bow. In prison search has covered many square kilometers around where David had been known to be hunting. They searched as winter was coming on several times through the snowfall, and again after spring forward the snow, but found no trace of David. There were several conspiracy theories about what might
have happened to David. Less than a year earlier, Carl Williams was killed in Bowing on David's watch, and some people thought this could be a revenge killing.
Wow.
Other theories were that David had surprised a pack of wild dogs and a bit attacked, or that he'd been killed by the high country panther.
Diggs would never do that, he would never do that.
For years, people have believed and sometimes provided alleged proof of a panther population of Virtis country. The story goes that during World War Two, US soldiers kept big cats as mascots on ships and encampments around the world as mascots. That fact is actually true. There's many photographs of US soldiers with large cats as their mascots in the encampments, but the story continues that at the end of their deployment, rather than take the animals back to the US or
have the mutinized, the soldiers release them into the Australian bush. Then, over time they've bred with feral cats and produced a viable population.
Whoa.
The story is widely unlikely, and even if it was true, the melanistic gene which turns leopards and jaguar's black is regressive and non hereditary.
Ah they would have been bred out by now anyway, So if.
There were panthers or leopards in the bush, they would more likely be normally colored.
I love I'd love the idea, though want to say normally colored.
Well, what I wanted to say was they'd be normally spotted, But we're talking about animals that aren't easy to spot.
Ye been spotted is in.
Like I didn't want to go for the joke I spotted a.
Leaven No, but like the idea of someone seeing a panther or something, because there's still a lot of sightings, especially like South Gipsland area and everything.
I saw a photo. Sorry, I sorry.
It was like a meme the other day of someone saying, if I saw a panther, I would simply take a very good and high quality photo of Yeah.
I would simply do that. Yeah bigfoot.
Yeah. If I was walking through the bush and I saw a panther, the first thing I would think is what is the opposite of yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, opposite.
I have to make to that. So as recently as two thousand and five, there was a video posted to Instagram alleging to show a large black panther just outside of me. Oh but anyway, back to our mysteries. In October twenty nineteen, Niles Becker, and experienced bushwalker, disappeared in the One and Gata Valley. He'd planned a five day solo trek and was well prepared. He'd given his best friend maps of his exact route, and he'd agreed a
start and return date. On October twenty sixth Niles messaged his friend that he had completed the trip and he was heading back to his car, and the hike back would take about six hours. Investigators know that the signal for this message bounced off the phone tower at the crossroads. When Niles did not return, the alarm was raised very early. Search search teams included helicopters with thermal cameras, kadava dogs,
and over seventy people on foot. The search stretched around eight hundred square miles, but police found no sign of Niles wow Unknown to the public at the time, the disappearance of Niles Becker was the first time police made contact with the Button Man.
My God.
After exhausting their search, a local Mansfield police officer mentioned the old hermer who lived in the High Country. He explained the Button Man would venture into mary Jig, a small town just outside of Mansfield, to buy for supplies or quietly at the hotel and drink a beer. Who was well known to Mansfield police, and it was common knowledge that the Button Man kept a close watch on the Wading Gata Valley.
I like it.
Police made the decision to trek into the Button Man's camp, not to arrest him or challenge him, but to try and get his help. The button man accepted the intrusion of our world into his and, according to the police, answered all their questions.
It's like Hannibal Lecturers. Now it is. He goes in to ask for help from.
The person that he knows, like Tarzan.
It's exactly like Tarzan.
Yeah, who's not a serial killer?
No? No, that's the thing about Tarzan is not Georgia Jungle. Not proven.
So he confirmed that he'd seen Niles pass through the crossroads and watched him pull out his phone and send a message and then walk away. Despite this information confirming Niles's direction of travel and where the police should search, no trace of Niles Becker has ever been Wow And in March twenty twenty.
I know this one.
Russell Hill and Carroll Clay disappeared. The couple, both in their seventies, were having a secret affair and they would slip away together on camping trips. Russell would often camp in the wan and Gada Valley and he knew the area very well. He was also part of a radio community and he would check in with them most evenings when he was away. He called and spoke with his friends around six pm on March the twentieth. The next day, campus entered the site and found Russell and Carroll's campsite
deliberately burned down, the couple nowhere to be found. In May twenty twenty, police made the decision to hike into the valley again, making their way through the crossroads and into the Buttonman's camp ah. The investigation was going nowhere. The media had heard whispers about the mysterious man who lived in the mountains, and police needed to know what he knew. Police knew it was likely that the Button
Man had seen Russell and Carroll enter his territory. They knew a media storm was brewing around the case, and they knew this was exactly the kind of thing the Button Man had retreated from the world to avoid. Police wanted to speak with the hermit, find out what he knew, and warn him of the reporters who might seek him out.
Not that there's anything wrong with reporters or.
Hermits or hermits or buttons.
Or buttons or buttons, the police would stay in a latter statement that it was an intriguing chat. They confirmed the button Man had seen Russell and Carroll drive into the valley and they were at pains to state that the Button Man was not being considered as a suspect. They also stated repeatedly when questioned that he had no criminal record.
Do they call him the button Man when they talk about him? Yep? Oh wow, so interesting.
But he had seen the campus arrive. So what else did he say? Yeah, if he was not a suspect, was he at least an observer?
Certainly sounds like a voyeur if.
You how many bushwalkers campus and hunted. Had the button Man observed and had he watched Russell and Carroll disappear just as he watched them arrive?
Feel creepy?
There were many There are many stories around encounters with the Button Man. Most people who encounter him describe his thousand meters stare an unblinking gaze from someone who has chosen to avoid social contact. Many campers describe his abiliately to silently disappear, or how quietly he moves.
Through the bush back into the bush like Homer.
Always the Actually, for our international listeners, this area we're talking about, the high countries exactly what we would.
Call them, the woods, dense bushland, the woods.
That's right. He builds rock pyramids around the area, and he carves buttons from deerhorn, which he wears in his ears or leaves as little gifts at campsites.
Wears so he's got like ear stretched ears like earrings.
He puts them through his ears like hoops.
Oh, I thought he meant like to block out sounds. Better ways to do that.
Could sell those local fate.
Regular hunters will often leave the button Man small gifts at their campsite when they go to bed, a few beers, a fishing lure or similar things outside their tent to make sure that they're welcomed into his area and left alone. The button Man is known to police, but his name has never been released. Oh but the police know his name. What has been leaked is that this man, now in his seventies, did not always live in a cave in the Wandengata Valley.
He wasn't born there, not like Tarzan. No.
He walked out of a home that he owns him Reservoir, when he was approximately forty years old. Reservoirs a suburb of Melbourne's West and he also owns a property which borders Mount Sterling. Despite leaving off the greed, he has means he has a bank account Mansfield residents sometimes see him at the bank or the pub, but they carefully protect his identity. Long time Mansfield resident Charlie Louvick was interviewed during the hill Clay disappearance and he was quoted
as saying, sure, we're no buttons. He's harmless. He chooses to live away from society and we respect that. Why would you why would we direct you into his world. At the press conference, the police said the button Man is an innocent person who has helped us in our investigation. He is not a person of interest. Being a loner and being observant are not crimes. Two shortly after their meeting with the button Man, the hill Clay case broke
in an unexpected direction. A number plate recognition camera and a mobile phone tower led police to a Nissan patrol heading away from the wan and Gata Valley around the time of disappearance. Incredibly, police were able to check their notes of the conversation with the button Man and confirm that he had seen the Nissen patrol coming into and leaving. The owner of the car, Gregory Lynne, was eventually charged and convicted of our crime, which is still in the
That's all we're going to say it. Yeah, yes, But the interesting thing is is the button man actually assisted the police in identifying that's insane. That's right, And that's where we're going to leave the one and get a valley. What if this we're a Next Box documentary. It would end with a slow pan out, focusing on ferns and thick underbrush, before panning past majestic mountain ash and eucalyptus.
Morning fog would be twisting through the trunks. We would break free from the tree line, and the camera would pan across the wilderness, pausing for a moment at the crossroads, an open area of ground where several tracks meet, and perhaps standing there would be an old herman, his face aged by the sun, leaning on a homemade spear with carved deer horn buttons dangling from his ears. He would glance up and then turn disappear into the bush like many other people have without a trace.
Wow, what goddamn what do you think of the button Man's got?
Like?
What what do you think?
Like? I mean, you know, he's he's out there somewhere. There's something I just want to know so much more about him.
One of my friends has met man.
Oh wow, got.
To mate who goes camping up in the water and Gate of Valley and all that high country around the back of Bensdale and while Halla and all that quite often, and he's and the button Man's coming to their campsite, and he describes them almost exactly as what I said, Yeah, this crazy stare. He looks at you as if he's looking into your soul. But he's all like he's harmless. But he has this sense of not being harmless.
I don't know if he is.
Yeah, don't be very careful.
Into people's camps and just like sitting down with them and talking and then disappearing into the.
Bush just so people know he's there. Nobody knows. And he's lived in the bush for thirty.
Years, fascinated what he did before. And he has means as well as he owns properties.
Yeah, so did he take the photo of the man? We believe so, well, that's not it's just that's got to be some kind of crime, yeh, that's yeah.
But he doesn't have a criminal recorder. And apparently he was, you know, he was well enough off that he owns a house, a reservoir and he owns a property amount sterling.
No my journal Spidery senses a.
God, do you think and what do you think?
Why would you then just go off into the bush and never speak to anyone again and know about.
All Something very off about the button man.
Something has happened to him. It's a fascinating story. Yeah, it really is, because it doesn't have any answers.
No, but there needs to be a Netflix documentary about this, because I would be so fascinated to go and find the button man. I'm not personally, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it myself. But Georgia, absolutely, I'm going to send.
You out there.
Not a chance.
I'm going to give you a go pro can.
Being in the high country after hearing any of these stories alone, knowing there's a creepy button man out there taking photos legend creepy peering in my can, that is creepy.
Some people think he's creepy and dangerous, and some people think he's creepy and harmless.
Yeah, I reckon he's done something and that's why he's gone into the bush, and he's done other things while in the bush.
Yeah, sure, yes, yes, that's why I told you the story. Because there's a whole lot of interesting. Honest. Yes, it's really.
Really really mean of you, because now I will be able to stop.
Thinking about the apologized apologize.
Please sorry, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, Disneyland, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I've told you another story that's not a murder. I promise next time it will be a murder. It'll be a really promise, I promise, I promise, I promise it will be really gnarly, straight up murder.
I do need to say, for people who are listening and not WATCHINGT just gave me a very very very sincere look quick.
Yelling at you. If I ever get invited back.
It is an if. Oh I judged, there's more there.
Yeah, and I'm also interested in one. Those other disappearances pre March twenty twenty were not his high profile because I mean, obviously Russell Hill and Carol Clay high profile now because someone was charged over it and that was even and the bodies.
No, but there weren't. There's no no, no, no no no.
But it was high profile before they were found and they weren't found for nearly two years.
So why was that one.
At the time when it was just just in inverted commas to missing persons.
Why was that really high profile that the others weren't.
David Pidat was pretty high profile when he were missing. That the governor of Barwin, that was pretty high profile.
And maybe this is more the Russell hilln Carol Clay is more remembered because there was some kind of outcome.
Yeah, that's right. But what people don't know is about the police's reliance on that. So there was a rumor and I wasn't going to say anything officially about it in the story, but there is a rumor that they've been to see Buttons for a third time to ask him to assist in the disappearance of Desi Freeman. Surely that of course, but that's unconfirmed.
But they would have to.
Because he knows the bush so well and because he's such a good tracker.
Yeah, I'm fascinated by Buttons. I think that there's got to be something more to him, and also to just be out there watching and having such a good idea of the bush.
I hate it. Okay, I hate it so much.
You've already said sorry, he's already said, so what can he do?
Yeah, okay, I'm sixty four.
Birds were going to say dollars.
I was like, oh, thank you, three sixty four dollars exactly, three to sixty four dollars just one day.
Yeah, but I do appreciate it.
It's an expensive time of it.
It is.
Oh my god, thank you Scott for bringing us the button man today.
We're not going to sleep tonight.
No, don't bring us the button man. The story of Oh my god, I'm not going to sleep with him.
Don't bring us the buttons.
Not, it's not, it's not. He only goes into tense too.
Well, my house is pretty intense.
WHOA we did.
We'll be right back after this song from Jilli Jol