Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, oh, shit. Let's go. Let's go. And now they truly can start the celebrations! It's the Sounders MLS Cup! Nicola now leaves absolutely no doubt! The Sounders rule the region! Ah, this feels fucking awesome. This is a tiny... Nice work on your little yacht thing. you know, what was the thought process?
in terms of who you decided to use. Ever since Sounder and Har wrote a commentary that we didn't take them seriously. This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Bull Bull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounders supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Arrietas, part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network. We are sponsored by Full Pull Wines and our subscribers. We're recording on Wednesday, May 7th, 2025. I'm your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me today once again is my co-host Aaron Campo and our producer, Lickett. Aaron.
It feels like it's been a little while since we've actually done this show together. We keep having... mark fill in or other yeah reasons so it's good to see you in a minute yeah it's good to see you as well yeah always good to see you but yeah it does feel like we uh we've we've had more rotation this year than normal which you know it's good Yeah. keep it fresh for ourselves fresh for the listeners you know exactly how are the tattoos healing up You know,
The one I got a couple weeks ago is doing pretty well. It looks disgusting, but that's par for the course. The one I got on Saturday hurts like a son of a bitch. I don't know what's going on there, but not in a concerning way or anything. He did tell me it was going to be kind of a pain in the ass to heal, and he wasn't lying. So I think it's just because it's on my dominant arm, you know, so it's like hard to not.
but uh you know it's getting there it's starting to look disgusting which is a good thing when it comes to tattoo sealing because you know you're making progress We're good. Yeah, well, we can now check banter off of our checklist so we can move into... soccer. Sounders are coming off a very, very satisfying win. I would say probably the most fun I've had watching the Sounders play a home game.
in a very long time and this year generally i think is maybe gone slept on a little bit this year the centers are actually pretty entertaining at home i wrote a column this week where i talked about Their home record in league play, they're 3-0-2. 14 goals scored at home. At least two goals in all but one of the games. They did have that annoying shutout against...
But other than that, they're at least scoring goals. But even on that scale, this game stood out. This was a really, really fun, satisfying performance. It was, yeah. I mean, I think that's the other... game that stands out for having a bunch of goals is the LAFC game and that was obviously a very satisfying game because it came against LAFC and the Sounders were very good in that game but I think it's
It's reasonable to say that that scoreline was flattering to the Sounders. The first half wasn't great, wasn't a lot of fun. And in this one, I think the Sounders were just dominant in a way that I think is really rare to see in MLS, and especially against the St. Louis team, who's not, you know, they're not world beaters necessarily, but their defense has been excellent this year.
And the Sounders just dominated. Yeah, exactly. And I think that the fact that a lot of people have, I've heard this sentiment a few times where It's just St. Louis. They're very bad. And St. Louis is not great, but they'd only given up eight goals coming into this game, so they gave up 50%. They have now given up 33% of their entire season total, which is 11 games in the game against the Sounders, which is...
Which is notable. No one had really put them to the sword like the Sounders had. And what was even crazier is the Sounders probably could have scored. two or three more goals. I mean, they had two balls go off the post. They had... I would say at least one absolute sitter that they missed. And I don't know that any of the goals they scored were like worldies either. It was just a very satisfying performance. And of course, to have it capped off with New Who.
tucking it inside the near post despite having an entire goal to work with was kind of perfectly fitting. Yeah, it was very fun. This is a deep, deep cut, but the goal that it actually reminded me of the most in Sounders history. was Nate Jacquez scored a goal against San Francisco of Panama. And I think it was like 2011. It was a really frustrating early Champions League tie where the Sounders were clearly infinitely better.
I want to say this is 2011, and it was, I think, a qualifier, a Champions League qualifier, because it used to work. was if you won the Open Cup, you didn't get into the proper tournament. You just got into a qualifier for the tournament. Correct. But go on. And yeah, it was a similar situation where there was absolutely no need for Nate Jake to roof the ball.
but that's what he did. And it was really, it was really satisfying. And I think it was a similar thing with new who in this one was just like, you know what, if it's harder to miss than it is to score, you might as well get your money's worth, you know? I don't know if it was harder. I thought when he hit it, I thought he over hit it. I thought he was actually going to skylight it too.
But of course, one of the really satisfying parts of this game, I think, and maybe we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, but Ryan Kent was on another level. He was doing stuff that I really don't think we've seen anyone do. since Clint, you know, since Clint's heyday, really. Like, he was just playing with a kind of confidence and swagger that... is not common in MLS in general, but really we have not seen a player who could put on that sort of performance. And, you know, this is...
This is a team that has had Raul Ruiz Diaz in his prime, that's had Nico Ladero in his prime. They've had plenty of good players, but there was a... like I said, a swagger to his performance that is different than what those guys played with. It was really satisfying to watch. He seems to be... It is a little pinch yourself because you're like...
why was this guy freely available? Why has he not had a team for eight months? And at some point, we probably need to dig into that and try to understand that a little bit more. But right now, it does seem like it was just a matter of He wanted to go somewhere where he thought he was going to be enjoying himself, and maybe that's not in Europe. You would think he would have had no problem finding a team in Scotland or in the Champo.
you know, any number of European teams. And for whatever reason, he didn't, he didn't take those gigs. And I don't know, maybe, maybe, maybe it was destined. Yeah, I'd like to think so. I mean, it would be nice for us to get the benefit of Destiny once in a while, you know? And to me, when I watch Ryan Kemp play, it's a guy who... has been dealing with Jose Mourinho's BS for far too long, you know, where he's just playing with very clearly playing with freedom and joy.
that you're just not afforded in a system like Jose Mourinho's. And so it's really fun to watch. And I think that the things that he is good at, clearly that he's good at and that he excels at are a really good fit for this league where... You are going to have a little bit more time and space. You're usually going to have a little bit more freedom within the system. You know, the sounders certainly don't play a very rigid system. And I think that's to the benefit of...
I think that makes sense to do that in a league like MLS where you can't always go out and get exactly the players you want. And I just really think he's going to thrive here. I was cautiously optimistic. when he was signed, that this could be a guy that made a big impact. And now I'm trying to maintain that cautious optimism, but it's getting harder and harder to do. The more we see him, the harder it is to be cautious. Because his game does not...
prompt consciousness. It is... I mean, like the... There was a great little replay that the Sounders had of the first play that he gets onto the field, and within a couple minutes of him getting on the field, he does this sort of dummy run where he...
allows the ball to nutmeg the defender without him touching it. I don't think I've ever seen... a player do that where he was able to sort of faint receiving it and in the process of faint of dummying the ball he makes that it's almost like a heart it's i don't think i even understood what i saw until i saw a replay of it on on Blue Sky or whatever. Sounders put out a video of this play. And it's...
It's hard to fathom how you pull that off because it's not supposed to work that way. And then, of course, he ends up with an assist. He almost has a second assist. And then he does get that second assist where he does a similar play. only this time he does it in the box. He never picks up his head, and somehow he hits a... diagonal sort of like a cutback through really a sea of defenders and it just falls right to
Nuhu's feet, who is just sitting there waiting to roof the ball. There's a sixth sense about him. He seems to just... have a calmness and a confidence that is, like I said, it's hard to be chill about this because it's really exciting to watch. He completes Completed all 26 of his passes.
It's the kind of wing play that I don't know that the Sounders have ever had, really. I mean, they've had good wingers, but I don't know that they've had wingers that play like this. I think maybe Steve Zaccawani was the closest. but he just wasn't at this level. He didn't quite have these kinds of skills. It's exciting and it's so much fun to watch. I think a player like this
is objectively a kind of player that everyone has to admit, yeah, this is fun to watch. This is why we like watching Sounders and stuff like this. Yeah, absolutely. And the Sounders, I think, you know... are in need of players like that. Even if they're playing well, it doesn't hurt to have a guy that's must-see TV just on his own merit. Yeah, and for the nerds out there, this wasn't just a, you know, it just wasn't pleasing from a, like, there was a couple plays.
I went through their entire history of XG that American Soccer Analysis has available in their database. So you go all the way back to 2013, you can look at every game the Sounders have played in that time. And the Sounders, I think, only one time had a higher... expected goal difference than they had in this game, and that was that 2015 4-0 win over Orlando, which...
You might remember was the game Obafemi Martins came back from the red card wedding. It was also Nelson Valdez's debut where he scored. And I think Thomas Huggler-Rubay. I don't know if that's how you say his name. I think he scored in that game too.
He did. Yeah. I remember that was such an exciting game too. Cause Valdez, that was one of the best hunters I've ever seen, you know, in that game. And it just felt like one of the many to come. And then, yeah. And Tomas said, had shown some promise but hadn't really had any kind of end product and it's like oh maybe this guy's finally figuring it out and you know maybe that didn't end up going the way we were hoping at the time. There was a lot of false promise in that game, admittedly. But...
You know, this does feel a little different in that the Sounders have a little bit more of a balanced team. There was a lot more contributions up and down the roster. The player for me who I thought really set the tone in this one was Christian Roldan. Early on, he was everywhere in this game, it felt like, but early on, he had a couple.
forced turnovers in st louis's end and it was sort of like nope this is this is how this game is going to be this is going to be tough i thought it was interesting afterwards that olav millberg the the short wearing coach of Here's a little trivia. When's the last time the Sounders faced coaches wearing shorts in back-to-back games? Phil Neville was wearing shorts. I guess not technically the Sounders, but...
We'll get to this later, but Phil Neville was also wearing shorts and took Willa yesterday. But anyway. he's like oh i thought we were the better team up until The penalty, and I guess you can refer to either penalty, they were right back one another. But I watched that game again. I do not think St. Louis was the better team. I thought they very much got their goal against the run of play.
Yeah, I mean, that was my primary reaction to their goal. I know Olaf Melberg can do nothing wrong. He's a Villa legend, so I don't want to be too critical of him. Right, yeah. I definitely, my thought when they scored was, well, that's... completely unfair because not only is that a pretty absurd penalty call, the Sounders have been totally bossing this game so far. And I know, you know, if you're on the road and you are a team that is only going to be eking out points,
primarily through defensive means. Maybe you're, you know, what you mean by better team. subjective yeah maybe you're right maybe he's using a much more like maybe i think probably what he was saying and this is a much more sympathetic reading of that is that the game was within the game, the game plan was being followed. They were maybe not controlling the game, but it was not out of control. And then after the penalty, they lost any semblance of control.
I also think it's notable that the Sounders came back to win this one, something they have not done yet this year. But they've also had very few opportunities to do that at home. The four minutes that they trailed in this game are the first four minutes they've trailed at home this year, which is kind of a cool stat.
Yeah, it's a very cool stat. I mean, I think that one of the major talking points last year and end of the offseason that I think is a totally valid one is, you know, The Sounders, even if they're going deep into the playoffs, even if they are winning games over the summer and getting back into the run of things, If you're boring as hell to watch in your home games for two or three months
It's going to hurt attendance. It's going to hurt the buzz around the team. And so I think they're really putting that theory to the test this year. I mean, they've been a blast to watch in every game, aside from, as you said, the Houston game. which had extenuating circumstances.
But this game had extenuating circumstances too, right? The Nashville game had extenuating circumstances. That's the thing, right? Exactly. Every game, they've been missing key players. I mean, they haven't been able to... I think only one game this year, they've started all three designated players, and I think... I think that was the 4-1 loss that Cruz was over.
Which I don't necessarily... think those two things are related but it just to illustrate that they've had they've been shorthanded at key spots virtually all season long and you know they're not out of the woods yet they're three four and four they are sitting like seventh place I think they're only three points out of third. So there's a lot to play for. And there's also a lot of... Teams all jumbled together sort of in that big middle glob of teams in the Western Conference.
But where we sit right now, it's hard not to be, you know, you guys said this a couple of weeks ago when you and Mark were on, you know, is it time to be optimistic? I think that was after the national game. And it does feel like there is a growing sense of optimism around this team, despite, you know, Jordan Morris being out for another, you know, five, six weeks potentially or more. We don't really know.
Jackson Reagan's still not back. Jesus Ferreira may or may not be back. So there's definitely injuries going on here. But it also feels like they are... finding ways to get results for the most part. And this was a lot more than just finding ways. This was a... This was high life soccer, which is a term we tried to get going back in 2020.
Was that right? I think 2023, yeah. They had a couple games where they were playing this kind of brand of soccer that we dubbed high-life soccer as opposed to champagne football. And this was it. This was that kind of game. This was, you know, pressing high up the field. yet you know flowing offense this was fun this was you know the energy in the stadium was really good
This is the stuff that gets people back into the stadium. Now there's all kinds of other issues that will affect that as well. But this felt like a real step forward in terms of kind of winning back hearts in mind. Yeah, and I think the fact that they... are finding ways to do it despite the injuries is, I don't think it can be overstated because it's not that the injury excuses in years past have been totally invalid.
But I think people are just like, yeah, well, the reality is still that I'm paying a lot of money, taking time out of my busy life to go to the games. And whether or not it's their fault or not, it still is a crappy experience. And I think the fact that they've found a way to have games like this with the injuries.
Scored four goals with Danny Musavski starting in place of Jordan Morris. I mean, when Jordan Morris went down against Cruz Azul and then again... you know, uh, More recently, against the Rapids, there was this real gut-punch feeling of like, well, if Jordan's out, we're not scoring goals. Right. And that doesn't appear to be the case, right? We appear to have a proof of concept of how to score goals without Jordan Morris, which is a huge development. Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I...
There's plenty of talk about Danny Masofsky, so it's not like he's getting ignored here, but... He has been... Sometimes it's just very satisfying to see when the underlying numbers are telling you something and the reality is reinforcing that. Like, he... You know, his... There's some reason to be skeptical that he can maintain what he's doing right now. And I'm not going to sit here and say he's going to score a goal a game. It would be silly.
Everything about his career, everything about his performance this year suggests that if he's playing, he's going to score about a goal every other game. And if he can just maintain that sort of pace... that should be just fine. Like he is doing a job and he's doing it really efficiently. You know, I've seen more than a few people say like, well, it's nice if he's you know putting away sitters but what else can he do and it's like well that's
Really, if he can just be in position to put away sitters, that's a really useful skill. I don't need him to do more than that. Just keep making that near post run. Keep spamming the near post run. That's fine. If you make that run, it's working. It's working, exactly. Yeah. I mean, obviously, Danny Mazovsky is not Chris Wondolowski, but Chris Wondolowski made a career and set records putting away sitters. That's all he did. He was not...
a super dynamic forward. He just had really great movement, really great positioning. And he scored sitters. And you can be a really effective player doing that. And I think especially with the Sounders having other weapons, with Kent and De La Vega and Rusnak and Paul Rothrock and other guys that can conceivably score goals that other teams have to be worried about.
that makes his job just so much easier. When Jordan Morris is the guy that other teams think can score, yeah, he's going to have to will himself to some goals. Danny Masovsky doesn't have to have that kind of pressure. And, you know, I think the results are speaking for themselves. Yeah, and it remains to be seen how much of a player that Osaze De Rosario can be, but what I like about him is that he seems to have a lot of the same qualities, where he isn't a flashy player.
but he's really good at getting himself into dangerous positions and finishing when he's supposed to finish. And, you know, between the two, and it looks like Osaze is going to be around for a while. Between the two of them, I think you can probably, you know, as long as you keep getting service, as long as you have these playmakers, which they have seemingly an abundance of playmakers right now. As long as they are getting service, this should be a functional offense.
that has the potential to be really, really fun. And I'm genuinely excited about what this team can do. We'll see how long it lasts. But right now, as I sit here... on May 7th. I'm really excited. This is gonna be a great test. This next week is gonna be a great test. They have three road games.
They are starting with a game at Houston, which is a win of a very winnable game then they go to lafc at midweek which by the way both teams will be on short rest lafc is going to have on one day less rest and they're going to be coming from vancouver so I mean, I don't know how much of a difference that makes, but they're probably going to have to play their first choice lineup on the weekend, just like the Sounders will. And then... i would imagine the sounders were fully like have a
We'll try to set it up so they have their first choice group ready for Portland. If they come out of this with five points, I think they have to feel really, really good about... the prospects, the path forward. Yeah, I think that this is a tough stretch, but... It's not a daunting stretch, if that makes sense. I think that this team is capable of getting a couple points on the road and picking up a win on the road, which is what they need to do to pick up.
Five points. They've had good luck in Portland over the last few years. Hopefully that can continue. Houston's always a tough place to play, but I don't fear them, really, I guess I would say, this season. And, I mean, LAFC is... They actually recently have had a lot of success in Houston, too. They have. They have. And Houston has won twice this year. They've had a rough go of it at home this year. So that's an eminently winnable game.
LAFC just does not look like the LAFC of years past, but they have been very good at home this year. They've only dropped points twice at home, so that's going to be a tough one. And Portland, I mean, I don't know what to think about Portland at this point, honestly. I don't either. They look pretty good. They're high up the table, but they almost lost in the defiance. Obviously, that was a first-choice team, but they're a weird team. I feel pretty good about the Sounders.
chances in that one because Portland likes to score but the Sounders pretty good at preventing teams from doing that and they do not like to defend and the Sounders are quite good at taking advantage of that so you know I'm optimistic about this run of games but The flip side of that is that it is the kind of run of games where the vibes can go south pretty quickly if you don't grind it out and get some results. It's a big stretch for sure.
Yeah, you mentioned Portland. We may as well get into this right now. rather than the second segment, but the Defiance... Played Portland on Wednesday, on Tuesday. I was there at Starfire. It was a blast. It was a good reminder that Defiance games can be a lot of fun. There was a little less than 1,800 people there, but the stands were packed. At least the main grandstand was packed. And the Defiance put on a great show. The Defiance really, really put on a good show. I imagine...
A lot of our listeners are sleeping on this because no one goes to, and when I say no one goes to games, it's like friends and family that are there. It's, it's pretty dire crap. But this is a really fun team, and I think this was a good showcase for them to, you know... Granted, there were a few first-team players in the roster, but the bulk of this team was real Defiance players, or certainly players that you can expect to see out at Defiance games.
And it was a lot of, you know, they didn't quite push it over the line, but it was a lot of fun. I think they carried the torch well from Saturday's Sounders game to this one because... You know, Osase De Rosario continued his blazing hot run. He's now got 10 goals in eight games. Yu Tsukunome, who is a Japanese player who the Sounders plucked out of the NPSL. Last year, he's now on eight goals, or nine goals through nine games across all comps. And I just thought that they...
They kind of controlled the game, frankly. This was not the first-choice Timbers team, but these are all MLS veterans. They probably had 400 or 500 games worth of MLS. experience between them. Maxine Cripo was a World Cup player not too long ago. Zach McGraw and Darryl Zapierich were both starting center backs last year. They had a bunch of guys on the
that were playing out there that were starters either at some point this year, like regular starters at some point this year or certainly last year. This was not a slouch Timbers team. And frankly, I thought the Timbers got pretty lucky. They got away with... you know, probably what should have been a foul for the first goal.
They got away with what I thought should have been a penalty to Travion Sousa, so that would have given the Defiance a chance to go up 3-1. And on better reflection, I have to admit, I think... that penalty was soft and that there was no reason for the Sounders to commit it, but it was probably fair. Manougou got a pretty good handful of jersey. that's gonna happen, but... Still, I thought mostly a very encouraging, positive performance from the Defiance, even though...
If I'm the Timbers, I'm sitting here going, look, this is not a style points competition. This is all about surviving and advancing, and we're the ones advancing, so get off. Yeah, I mean, it's true. It's a fair point. I can't imagine, though, that they didn't get a little bit of a hairdryer, you know, at training today or after the game. I think you touched on it. You said it. I've seen plenty of cup sets. Especially when there's a two levels gap between the teams.
They don't usually play out like this one almost did. You see the lower division teams defending deep and maybe taking advantages of set pieces. counterattacks and And you see a lot of bunkering and holding on and praying. And that just wasn't...
the way this one played out at all. I mean, the Defiance were on the front foot. They were setting the tone. Obviously, down the stretch, they were under pressure. But I think that's to be expected by any team that's protecting a lead late in a cup game.
And ultimately, they couldn't withstand the pressure. And I think that that is the... you know veteran experience playing at a higher level winning out at the end of the day would have been really nice if they could have put put away one of those other chances that would have made it 3-1 obviously because i think if that happens the timbers just fold from there on but
I don't think you can be anything but ecstatic with that performance. I think it was guys playing above their heads and playing above their pay grade, frankly. lot of promising play. Nobody has any reason to be upset or disappointed in their performance.
And it's always nice if you can get knocked out of a cup game and come away feeling like the referee had a hand in it. That always gives you a little bit more... a little bit more reason for for optimism i suppose at least when you're not supposed to win if you're supposed to win that's a different story um so yeah i i uh it was it was a lot of fun um it'd be nice you know like you said if they could recreate that atmosphere more frequently
Maybe if they, I don't know, played in the city that they took their name from and catered to a local market and actually tried to get people to come to the game, something like that would help. But, you know, that's neither here nor there. And there was part of me, though, that watching it was sad that it wasn't the Sounders. I love the U.S. Open Cup. I think it's really special. And it's a bummer that it's become sort of this third-tier thing now, too.
Tournaments that, frankly, nobody really cares about that much. And unfortunately, the magic of the Open Cup took a bit of a blow this week in total. Only one lower division team ended up advancing out of this round, so we are now down to 16 teams. 15 of them are MLS sides. The only MLS team to lose was New York City FC.
And it was kind of an amazing ending. Pittsburgh Riverhounds, a USL championship team who are hosting this game, got a goal in the fifth minute of second half stoppage time to win that one. basically the final play of the game. So at least there was one cup set that was kind of exciting. And I suppose that it does speak to the challenges of this particular format, which the way it was set up was all 16 MLS teams were paired against lower division teams from the previous round.
so that we didn't have any lower division versus lower division teams we also didn't have any mls versus mls games so that was good but the trade-off is that we only end up with one lower division team kind of kind of takes some of the magic out of this tournament, I think. I mean, you can still have some good games. I'm sure those fan bases will still be inclined to be excited, but I don't know how many neutrals are going to tune in to watch.
random MLS versus MLS matchups for the next three rounds or whatever. Yeah, it does. I mean, I can watch... I can watch MLS teams play MLS teams all the time, and usually they're playing stronger lineups and have bigger crowds. So it's a bummer to see everybody gets behind the lower division teams. I think, I hope everybody gets behind the lower division teams unless they have a rooting interest for the MLS team.
And it's, yeah, it's a bummer. It makes me wonder about the state of the lower divisions, I guess, to some degree. um yeah we've and we've and it's it's definitely at an inopportune time for the lower divisions because you know here usl just sort of has gotten a lot of headlines over the last month or so because they made this decision to go to
are to adopt promotion and relegation. And then to follow that up with, well, yeah, a bunch of these teams that we're going to be calling first division teams in a few years. Right. Not the best look, maybe. No. No. I don't know. Maybe, you know, we'll see. Hopefully it's... Better times ahead. I like this tournament. I actually didn't mind the Defiance taking the Sounders place in part because it gave us a bunch of earlier round games to like...
The Divines ended up playing four games. As a sicko, I enjoyed being engaged in those earlier round games a little bit more. So it didn't bug me that much, although I can definitely understand.
It would have been nice to see the Sounders go try to win a title out of this thing. It's always fun to... to try that i suppose yeah i mean i think that if the reality is that the sounders are not going to be in the tournament that that right way to approach that is hey well you know what i'm going to get invested in the uh in the defiance and that's the healthier way to process it but you know we can't all be that practical i guess
Well, this is probably a good place to call a break. We're going to come back and we're going to power rank something. I think maybe what we could do is power rank. what positions we want to see the Sounders pursuing with this U22 spot. We happened to talk to, or I happened to talk to Craig Weibel today at training, and he made some comments that
can kind of take this in multiple directions. So maybe that's a good thing we can talk about. I'm breaking news, I think, to Aaron right now. Yeah, that's fine. My idea was bad, so I'm... Yeah, so maybe this is a better idea. But anyway, I think it is. This is Nozadientes, and we'll be right back.
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Welcome back to Nos Adiates. I am Jeremiah Oshan, and we are doing our power rankings for this segment. And we decided live on air, not live, but in real time. To power rank the positions we want to see the Sounders pursuing with this U22 spot. I had a chance to catch up with Craig Weibel today out at training. He gave us a bunch of quotes about the U22 situation. And sort of he, I don't know.
The cynic will say that he is providing cover for maybe not signing anyone because he basically said, like, look, we want a player that's going to come in and contribute reasonably quickly. That kind of player, that's a high bar. Those kinds of players tend to be pretty expensive. Those U-22s like that oftentimes don't even want to come to MLS. And if they do want to come to MLS, it's...
Not only are they expensive transfer fees, but they also are commanding a relatively, potentially too high of a salary. So these are all reasons that if you're cynical, you can say, well, he just doesn't want to sign someone, and he's coming up with excuses not to sign someone. I'm going to choose to be a little bit more optimistic and say maybe this is because he's out there looking for the best player available. He's not dialed into one position.
And he just wants to find the best player that he can. And I will say in defense of that idea, there is not right now. I look at the roster. And I'm not going to sit here and say it's perfect or that it's unupgradable. But for a U-22 to come in here... and be a contributor, not even necessarily a starter, but to be getting regular minutes, they have to beat out players who look like they're off to a pretty good start this year, who are pretty good, you know, like, I don't...
Let me just ask you this, Aaron. When you look at this roster, what do you think is the position that is most realistically upgraded, not in general, but with a U22 signing? I mean I don't look at any position group on this team and say, I think there's a good chance that a U22 player, that the Sounders, the type that the Sounders would be targeting and would be plausible.
is going to upgrade this position. I look at central midfield as the spot where maybe they're going to have the best of luck getting minutes and contributing right away. But I think even that means you're probably going to prioritize giving the minutes over players that you think might be better.
And that does make it tricky. It does make it tricky. And it's why I do find the idea that they want to prioritize getting somebody in that can contribute right away a little strange, because I don't know that that's the best use of the mechanism. Yeah.
It feels like a way to set up a repeat of the Leo Chu situation where, you know, to be clear, I don't think that signing was bad or a disaster at all. When you look at the other U22 signings in the league, Leo Chu was, you know, a better than average contributor. the Sounders ended up Getting some good minutes from him, getting some goals and assists from him, and he is probably going to go on to have a pretty good MLS career, but it's also just so unambitious.
I would hope that they would say we're going to get the player that we think has the highest ceiling, whether or not they can help out right away, but it doesn't seem like that's what they're going to do. Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. I guess the other way of looking at those statements is... that they i think part of it might be that they're sort of repeating the words that they're hearing from ownership which is we don't want to spend money just for the sake of spending money
And I get it. I said this last year. I'll say it again. We are sort of at the point where you've got to spend money just to show that you're willing to do it sometimes. I would like to see them make a signing. They don't have any U-20. They're not using any of their U-22 spots right now. And as good as this roster looks, it's not being fully maximized. And, you know, so...
Yeah, and I think the idea that... spending money to invest in a player that has a lot of upside that can either help you in the future or on the field or can help you in the future in terms of bringing in a big transfer fee. I think that viewing that as spending money for the sake of spending money is a little silly. Yeah, I would agree. I'm just saying I think these are sort of the internal conversations there.
No, I'm sure you're right. And it's based on both the fact that I trust you and also the fact that the actions of the club sort of suggest that they don't really have a lot of appetite for speculative investment. That's kind of where the league is at right now, you know, to some degree. Yeah, and of course, the other irony here is that Adrian Hanauer is one of the big reasons the U22 rule even exists.
He was one of the champions of this rule. He really liked the idea of... creating a roster mechanism that you could use as an investment tool. So I don't know. Hopefully he actually puts that in that he greenlights the use of this. But without further ado, we're going to start at number five, the position that we think could be upgraded potentially. but not the most important one, and that's fullback. I think the Sounders are pretty reasonably set, both in the near and long term.
But maybe not a left back. Left back seems like you could probably upgrade. You could probably find a left back who, you know, maybe is not going to start over New Who or even Reed Baker Whiting, but at least... Or I guess Paul Rothrock technically is the left wing back right now. But you can talk yourself into a young guy getting minutes there, don't you think?
Yeah, I think so. I would throw center back in there as well. Oh, well. Stu Hawkins is obviously a hell of a prospect. He looked great against Portland. last night, but they don't have a ton of center back depth. You obviously don't want to take minutes away from a guy that might be your current highest upside prospect, obviously.
you know there's if you bring in a u22 center back you could go out on loan potentially so um yeah i mean i i guess in the uh the very sounders move here would be Paying a transfer fee for Kato Yamada, who is the Japanese center back that they have on loan right now at Defiance.
who is considered a high-level prospect. And I have to admit, I was not super impressed with him the first couple times I watched him. But the more I watched him, the more impressed I was. I thought he was really good yesterday. They had two 18-year-old center backs. that really held their own in that game yesterday, which was really encouraging. I like Hawkins a lot.
So I don't know. I could see maybe, maybe they do. Maybe they do something crazy, like pay a transfer fee for your money. Like, Hey, this is our U22. This guy was already here. I can see that going over really well, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So number four, I put the number 10 spot. In part because I just don't know. I saw a comment today on Blue Sky from Matt Doyle saying he thought that they were potentially already targeting a number 10. I do not think that's what they were doing.
He thinks that's maybe where they move their target, especially with Danny Mazowski playing so well. And in theory, sure, it would be great to go out and spend U22 money on a number 10, but... Is there really number 10s, 21-year-old 10s out there that... in the Sounders price range that are going to upgrade this. Because right now they would have to be beating out Albert Rusnak, Pedro de la Vega, Jesus Ferreira. Even Danny Leyva. That actually seems like a kind of deep position.
Yeah, I think the 10 is a great example of a spot where if your intention is to... go find an 18 year old who is not quite good enough to go play in Europe yet or you know hasn't shown enough to even be a speculative asset for Manchester City or whoever, but you're willing to spend money on and willing to wait a couple of years and hope that they improve their stock with their youth national teams and maybe can go out on loan or whatever. I think that's a great use of the mechanism.
But the Sounders, you know, like we said, don't appear to be interested in doing that. And I just it's tough for me to see. where that player gets minutes. Because not only do you have a bunch of guys that can play the 10, you have a bunch of guys that can play the 10 in a bunch of different ways. And the sounders don't even really use a traditional 10 in the first.
So like the sort of prototypical South American 10 is not really a great fit on this team. I don't know. You know, I don't think so. Yeah. But I think it's such a high value position if you do hit the signing correctly that you have to consider it a possibility. Yeah, and maybe I underestimated that possibility, but I had my number three... most important area or place i like winger which you know you always put winger on there right you always you can never have too many wingers
Yeah, it's true. I mean, we're potentially putting that to the test. We are going to put that to the test now, aren't we? Yeah, you've got Georgie missing the bench. Right. And that's, you know, before Ryan can see the starting games. But, you know, again, it's kind of like any attacking player, any winger, striker, 10. has got to be in the mix just because that's where all the value is and transfer fees and what have you.
But I think I'm a little skeptical that they would be able to make an impact right away. Unless it's, you know, a caliber of your .22 player that we're not expecting, I guess, which is always a possibility. But that said, Georgie Manungu did look really good against the Timbers, and I think that that's maybe a low-key... that was sort of a low key, really encouraging performance because here's a guy who we've talked about needing that final ball. And he, you know,
He did it. He had two great assists and he was just a total terror. last yesterday against the timbers this is against the first team opponent like it wasn't you know he's been he had been playing the last couple games for defiance and he was destroying mlsx pro competition You take that with a grain of salt. This is another thing. This guy's putting up real numbers.
Yeah, absolutely. He definitely looks like he's putting it together in the final third. And if that's real, he's a huge problem for everyone. Yeah, just to share a little bit of his, you know, he's got a goal and seven assists right now between the Defiance and Sounders across all comps. I mean, that's real production. Yeah, absolutely. And that's in 16 games. So he's averaging more than a... And it's about 620 minutes. So that's real production. He's averaging basically a goal or an assist.
every like 70 minutes or so. Yeah, not bad. That's not bad. No, that's not bad. All right. This is a late change from, not necessarily for this show, but for... I put the number nine spot, which I think would have been far and away the top spot if you had asked me this. a couple weeks ago even. But with the emergence of Danny Masovsky, I'm a little less convinced that there's minutes to be had here. Osas de Rosario, I think, might end up being okay in that spot.
I think the bar to clear for minutes for a U22-9 is actually getting pretty high. But, yeah, I'll still put it at number two. Yeah, I think that it's the most obvious spot and I think the... The urgency, I guess, has definitely changed with Masavsky, you know, showing that he's a pretty capable MLS striker and Dero, you know, waiting in the wings. I think that.
At one point, it felt like they absolutely had to sign a U22 just to have a confident backup, and now that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. And so, but... I do think that it's just like the 10, like the winger, any attacking player that you think has the potential to make you a ton of money down the line has got to be in the mix.
And as much as I love Danny Mazovsky and as much one as he's been to watch these last few months, if you can get a good 22 that you think is as good as Danny Mazovsky right now, you probably make that move. So yeah, I think it definitely has to be considered a distinct possibility. And I think one that would get people really excited. Yeah, I would totally agree with that. All right. So number one. That's the drum roll sound.
I put the number 8 spot, which again, the bar is really high here. It is. But... I mean, essentially you're having to like, he's going to have to beat out some mix of Obed Vargas. Christian Roldan, Jao Paulo, and Danny Leyva. That's not impossible, but it does feel like, of all these things, maybe the most... Like if you can get, especially with, with the Obed Vargas situation being a little unclear, like if they can sort of find his replacement at the same time that they are selling him.
That's kind of the way I look at this. Yeah, I think that that makes all the sense in the world to me. And I do think... It's a little easier to justify. Starting or not starting a player but giving a player minutes over João Paulo who you know, is closer to the end of his career than his beginning, than the beginning of his career. Right. Um, where if you think this guy needs the minutes more than JP does, and, uh,
And Leyva is going to get minutes at the 10 as well. And I like Danny Leyva a lot. I think he's a really good player. I'm really, really glad that we brought him back. but I also think he's the kind of player where maybe you're okay, given the higher upside guy, some of his minutes. And. I think that there's potential for injury at central midfield, and there's less depth there than other spots. I mean, you've got two guys for two guys.
And so you can quickly get into a situation where you're a little thin there if there is an injury of some kind.
It addresses an actual depth need, I think. And I think the barrier to entry is a little lower there as well. And I think that those players can be really, really valuable. If the Sounders can get... a true like destroyer type or a true ballwinner type right which they just don't really have right now um that gives them another option and another kind of player to put there when the situation calls for it
I think you can get a lot of value at that spot that you maybe can't get at the attacking spots. It's one of the reasons I don't hate the idea of a center back right is that the aging curves are a little different and you can you can tend to get somebody with a higher upside within the parameters of view 22 so
It's what I think I'd be targeting, you know, if I wasn't just going for the best available fit, the best player available that I thought, you know, fit the culture of the club and everything. I think if you're actually going after... what does this team need? What could help this team right now? That's the spot that makes the most sense. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a pretty compelling argument to me. Well, that's it. That's what we have for you.
I feel bad. I just realized I wanted to talk about the Sounders' desire to move into a 4-2-3-1 at times and how that looks like it might be happening. But we can do that on a show later in the week. Well, you're off the hook, Aaron. Sounds good. I appreciate it. I'm not going to inject that into this show. But anyway. Good hanging out again, Aaron. Always good to see your face. Always impressed by your new tattoos. Making up for lost time, you know? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
That's it. That's the show, I guess. This is Nos Adietes, part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. Thank you to our... Sponsor Football Wines. Thank you to our subscribers. We are closing in on 3,000 paid subscribers to Sounder Heart, which is kind of a crazy number. So if you are listening to this for free and you're like, you know what? I'd really like to get the sounder at heart number to 3000. That feels like a really good thing. Hey, just feel free to become a subscriber. We'll take that.
With all that said, I'm Jeremiah Shan, signing off for Aaron Campo and Lickit. This is No Sadrientes, and remember... I expect a LAFC who is motivated. To prove themselves at home to prove to their fans that they're capable of winning in this league and it's up to us to Really ruin the party. Yeah, you guys like that? Awkward joke dad joke