Where Sounders sit as they hit the Leagues Cup break

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Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adientes, part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network, sponsored by Full Pool Wines, Hacks and Ferments, and our subscribers. We're recording on Tuesday, July 29th, 2025. I am your host, Jeremiah Shan. Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our producer, Lick It.

The Sounders are coming off a 2-2 tie with Atlanta United in which the Sounders scored their seventh latest goal ever and gave up the second latest goal they've ever allowed. We'll certainly talk about the game. But I mainly want to talk about it in the context of where it leaves the Sounders as they enter the League's Cup break. Let's just do a little overview here. The Sounders are 10-6-8, fourth in the West, but they're as close to eighth as they are third.

They've got an improved offense over last year, but are allowing goals at a much higher rate. Add it up, Aaron. And how are you feeling right now with about 10 games left to go in the regular season? It's a... Tough question. I think that if you had told me at the beginning of the season that Jordan Morris was going to play 400 minutes. leading up to the league's cup break and that Pedro de la Vega was going to have three goals and Jesus Ferreira was going to have three goals.

and the Sounders were somehow much better offensively and in fourth place, I would have been thrilled. I would have been really confused, but I would have been thrilled. It doesn't quite seem to math, but yeah, you're right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's, it's very strange. Um, I don't think anybody saw, you know, an eight goal, uh, season from Danny Masovsky. Uh, but. Yeah. So, I mean, on the one hand, I think that considering what they've been up against in regards to injuries, I mean...

Look at all the games Yamar missed. Look at the fact that we're starting Alex Roldan at center back for a couple of games. Jackson Reagan missed a bunch of games. Jackson Reagan missed a bunch of games. So I do think that Stephen Fry's missed a bunch of games. Yeah. Jao Paulo has missed a bunch of games. We could go on, but I'm sorry I cut you off. No, I mean, it's true. I keep forgetting about guys who have missed a bunch of games, and I don't think it can be overstated how...

well the depth has held up this year to have the Areola got season. He was one of the biggest off season acquisitions anyway. Yeah. And, and so, yeah, I, I do think it's pretty remarkable what they've been able to do.

with all of those problems however um the the expectations of this team are what they are and i think you know it's i feel okay going into the stretch i mean i i think that it is conceivable that they could finish as high as second i don't think it's likely but i think it's conceivable um there are eight points out of first place with the game in hand i mean they've made up gaps

bigger than that in less time before so i think they're pretty well positioned but if the question is do i think they're going to make a run like that do i think that this is a team with elite potential. I'm not sure that I do. And I'm not sure what they can conceivably do during this window. short of faith healing Jordan Morris' shoulder to get me to a place where I think that they're capable of going on that kind of run.

I think that they're set up well for the playoffs still. I think when push comes to shove, Brian Schmetzer can set up this team to be extremely difficult to play against come playoff time. And I think that they've got enough firepower that they could certainly make an MLS Cup run. But in terms of playing down the stretch like an elite team, I just, I'm not sure. And it's frustrating to be in that position. Well, there was an interesting conversation.

on Blue Sky this last week that was started by Sounder at Heart contributor Brian McKay. And he was kind of talking about how he was shocked at how frustrated some parts of the fan base are. I'll be honest. Those people are not necessarily on Sounder at Heart, so I don't want to create a straw man argument here. But if I were to give a good faith argument to the idea that there are a lot of fans frustrated... I think there's some...

reason why, like whether or not you're pulling out your hair, like I, like whatever the centers are coming off of frustrating two, two tie where they drop points. And I think you can probably make a credible argument that there are at least six points that they've left on the table this year. where there are games that you don't need to come up with a fantastical way that they should have claimed all three points. They dropped points very late against Charlotte at home in the season opener.

They dropped points after leading 3-0 at home to Colorado. That game is also still somewhat fresh in our memory. Then, of course, they dropped two points, which I think on balance, you could argue that they maybe didn't deserve all three points against Atlanta.

but they were in position to get those three points if not for a absolute thunderstrike from 25 yards on the literal last play of the game. And so in that way, I think you can sort of... talk yourself into they should have had those three points and you know you give them six more points the table looks

Not dramatically different, but the outlook looks very different where they would be tied for third place and they'd only be two points out of first place. And I don't know if that is a more accurate reflection of how they've actually played this year than what. The table says, according to expected points, I think the Sounders may actually be slightly over-performing what expected points say they should be at. But it's...

But I do think you're right. If you give all the caveats of the injuries and whatever else, it's hard to be too frustrated with where they are. But at the same time, it also feels like the West is there for the taking and they're probably not going to take it. Yeah. And that is frustrating. And I think also you can be frustrated with dropping those points in those games. The Colorado game I'm still pissed off about and everybody else should be. It's yeah, that's it's utterly ridiculous. Yeah.

The Atlanta game, I'm honestly, and we'll get into that later, but I'm honestly not too bothered with the way that one turned out. But I still think, I mean, if you drop two points on the literal last kick of the game... I think it's totally valid to be frustrated. And they've just been a frustrating team at times this year. I mean, we've talked a lot about this, but they've made mental mistakes that are pretty baffling. They've had bad red cards. They've given up bad penalties.

But, you know, they've had some games where they probably should have walked out of there with three points where they did.

You know, they've been much, much better at home this year. They've been a much more interesting, fun team to watch, I think, by most people's standards this year. So it really has been a mixed bag. And I think that the... injuries and everything like that is always, for me, it is an explanation rather than an excuse until the team is doing everything they can within their power to put the best team.

they can on the field and they are not doing that. And so I think until they're doing that, until they're using the kind of, until they're spending resources to fill the holes on the team, they... I think it's fair to say they're not doing all they can to be as good as they can. And so I don't really care about the injuries as an excuse. I think that's totally valid. And that's more or less how I feel, even though from an analytical standpoint of.

How have the players done? How has Brian Schmetzer done with what he has to work with? I'm actually pretty happy with the outcome. So I'm disappointed with the club's effort. I'm happy with the team's effort, if that makes sense. It does make sense. And I think it fairly encapsulates sort of the frustrating nature of this team.

And another way I'm kind of thinking about it right now is, am I more satisfied with where the Sounders are now than where they were at this time last year? And I think I am. Because last year around this time, they were sort of just... coming into form and they were doing it mostly through suffocating defense and they played a lot of, you know, I think we had a lot of discussions last year about how.

what's boring soccer. And to me, boring soccer was not winning. And if you're winning games, it doesn't really, you sort of like can live it. Like I didn't, I wasn't really bothered by the one zero wins. But I do think just from a pure aesthetics perspective, this season has been a lot more, the games, the individual games have been a lot more fun to watch, even if the results are sort of in the aggregate pretty similar to what they were last year.

Yeah, I think down the stretch, this team was a lot of fun last year. But I definitely think over the balance of the season, the Sounders have been more fun. And there was a time earlier in the season when they were still kind of struggling to sort goals. But they were still more fun to watch than they were struggling to score goals last season. And you could tell there was a plan of attack. They understood maybe what their shortcomings had been last season.

And you could tell that they wanted to go forward. They wanted to attack. They wanted to score. It just wasn't happening. And to me, that's a lot different than the way it felt last year, where it just felt like they were just trying to get a goal because they knew they could hang on in every game.

but they weren't trying that hard to get a goal because they knew they were going to have trouble coming back. So I do think it's, you know, up to this point in the season, it's been a lot more fun this year. But also, I think I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think at this point in the season last year, they were still out of a playoff position. And, you know, we were kind of wondering whether or not.

it was going to be the end of branch better era. Like, I think there were still a lot of questions about that kind of stuff at this, this point last season, maybe things had turned around a little bit by now. I really don't remember. Yeah. I'm actually looking that up because I'm curious, uh, how they were. how they were at this point last year. So let's see. We're at July. We'll call it July 28. So the Sounders were sitting in seventh last year. They were, they had played one more game.

they basically had two more losses. No, two more losses and two more losses. They'd played one more game and they had two more losses, but they were also one better on goal difference. Yeah. Which is pretty funny. How many goals did they score? They had scored 34 goals at that. So they had scored four fewer goals in one more game. So there, I mean, it's a, you know, it's not an, it's not a.

totally different. I mean, it's similar. It's a similar place they were last year. But anyway, it is kind of funny to look back on that. They were also... They were also closer to being out of the playoff. They were only six points up on the 10th place team. And they were farther out of the lead as well. They were 12 points out of the...

at a first. So it was, you know, I think you can argue pretty credibly that they're in a significantly better place right now than they were last year at this time of year. That said, it's just been a funny season. And like you said, it's been a lot of injuries. It's been a lot of... Tim Foss wrote about this in... postgame pontifications this week, which I hope people are enjoying getting a different angle on that. He and I have been switching off more often, but, uh,

You know, he wrote about how this has sort of been a season of almost like they've almost had some really sort of signature performances. I think I don't know that Atlanta, this would not have been a signature performance, but I think it would have been it sort of.

one of the things, one of the characteristics of this team that I think that they have shown is that there is a resiliency to them that they have been able to put up with a lot of, a lot of setbacks and they, managed to keep moving forward like they had a couple really bad games this year they had that 3-0 loss to San Diego where they look like they totally got outclassed and then they had the 3-0 loss to Vancouver

where the wheels just totally came off. And it looked like the season might really spiral a bit from there. And instead, because that was the game right before Club World Cup. And of course, what they did is they sort of regrouped and they had a... They didn't win any, didn't get any points in the Club World Cup, but they were credible. And I think that they sort of showed that they could hang with good teams. And I think they've at least credibly...

ridden some of the momentum from that. And they're 3-0-3. They haven't lost since the Club World Cup. They're scoring a bunch more since the Club World Cup. Before the Club World Cup, they were actually behind. last year's pace and scoring and last year's pace and scoring wasn't even that good. So like these last six games, I think have been, have been some somewhat significant steps forward and there's been some positive play, you know.

play of specific players has, I think emerged as viable. And so there are definitely things you can point to as, as progressing forward. And yet here we are.

And it's like, God, this feels like it could be more than it is. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a fair way to feel. And I think that we talked about the caveat of Jordan Morris missing a bunch of time. specifically because I think coming into the season, we felt like, all right, if anything happens to Jordan Morris, we're screwed. We're troubled. And, but...

That hasn't ended up being the case. Danny Moskowski has been great. He's been elite by per 90 numbers. He's been elite at striker this year. So, yes, they haven't had Jordan Morris, and that has hurt them. I definitely think this team is better if they have Jordan Morris. but they're getting good production from that spot from Danny. 12 goals from your number nine spot at this point in the season is not elite production, but it's certainly.

If Jordan Morris had 12 goals right now and Danny Masofsky had zero, I don't think anyone would be losing their mind over it. No, I think... I think people would be annoyed at Danny Masofsky. Right. That's not, you know, that's not too much different than, than last year. So, and so they, they have gotten production from that spot and they've still struggled. And.

They've gotten production from Albert Rusnak. He has 10 goals this year. They haven't gotten the production they've needed elsewhere. And so I think that's definitely frustrating for people. The good news is that Jesus Ferreira has been, I think, really quietly pretty good for...

a while now. I mean, since, since the club world cup, at least he's, he's been, I think having just, he's looked a lot more comfortable. He's looked like he understands his role a lot better. And then Pedro de la Vega, obviously the last couple of games has been really good. And so I think that that.

I think it's reasonable to expect a little bit of regression from Danny Mazovsky. Although I don't, I don't know how that much because his underlying numbers are so good. I mean, I think he's actually still underperforming his XG by a decent amount. It depends on where you. It depends on where you look. If you look at, like, FB Ref has him almost exactly on his XG, whereas ASA, American Soccer Analysis, has him underperforming by a couple goals.

But point being the underlying numbers suggest that what he's doing production wise is not. Right. It's not just some hot streak that he is consistently getting himself into dangerous positions and he's finishing at a rate that you would expect. Yeah. yeah and and i think i mean that's that's backed up by what i see when he plays you know i think that he his movement is great um

I said, I think it was in the Discord, it might have been on Blue Sky, but I said that I thought he had the best softball movement on the team, and some people were pretty incredulous about that, but I stand by that. I think that he has some of the best softball movement that I've ever seen from a Sounders forward.

I think that, you know, and so I think that he's plenty capable of continuing to put up good production at that position. And if the development we've seen from Pedro De La Vega over the last few games is real... and Hazus Ferrer can continue to contribute, and Albert Rosnack can continue to contribute, especially given that the strength of the schedule down the stretch is not...

super strong. And that was another discussion. I think that I saw in blue sky, you know, about the fact that yes, the Sounders have been much better over the past six games. The strength of the schedule hasn't been as strong. Well, the. converse of that is that the strength of the schedule in the first chunk of the season was actually quite hard. I think that through the first half of the season, the Sounders had far and away played the most difficult schedule. And I think the rest of the way...

they've got it a little easier. So if they can continue to perform pretty well against these bad to average teams, they're going to have a better second half of the season than they had first half of the season. And that'll be reflected at the end of the year. So there are plenty of reasons for optimism, I think. Um, especially if, if drop hollow can get back healthy and, you know, they can get some semblance of, uh, stability in, in the back, um, at, you know, center back and left back as well.

I think this team can be really good, but they've just been so inconsistent in an attack that it could all fall apart at any moment, and I don't think anybody would be too shocked. Well, let me ask you this. What do you think is sort of the key to the next, the final phase of the regular season? And I suppose we could include Leaks Cup in that phase. I don't think we're really...

doing that but over the last this last stretch of games what to you is either the key players or the key what what what elements of the game are you going to be looking at I think if Pedro de la Vega can show consistently 80% of what he showed in the last two games, that's going to be... I mean, because he in the last two games, he has looked like not only worthy of a DP spot, but like a.

franchise cornerstone level player to me. I think he's just been completely outstanding and just exactly the kind of player I think we've all, we're hoping we were getting in the first place and have been hoping to see. He's been incredible. So if he can play 80% of that level the rest of the way, that's a damn good player that you haven't had before who can create goals, who can score goals himself, who can give all sorts of...

fits to defenses, who gives the Sounders that transitional threat that they haven't had with Jordan being out. And I think that's going to be massive. And if he regresses and goes back to being the player he was earlier this season, which is... Not a terrible player, but certainly not a player living up to that DP tag.

that's going to be a problem. And you're going to really need to have Jesus Ferreira step up. You're going to have to have Albert Rosnack continue to produce. You're going to have to have Danny Masovsky continue to produce. And you're going to have to hope your defense gets it together because it's going to be a lot more like the stretch run last year than...

you know, what we're kind of hoping the stretch run this year looks like. So I think it really does just hinge on, and that's a ton of pressure for the kid, but I think it really does hinge on Pedro because you're not getting Jordan Morris back, you know, for a long time it was. This is great, and imagine what it's going to be like when Jordan gets back. Well, Jordan's not coming back. This is what we've got unless the Sounders manage to land another attacking signing, which they may well do.

Um, but even then, depending on the caliber of signing, it's going to be, who knows whether they'll be able to contribute that much this year anyway. Right. Yeah. I'll just throw out some numbers here just because I think it sometimes illustrates what Pedro De La Vega has done. He's only on three goals and three primary assists. But the thing is, he's only played 900...

minutes in MLS play. If you break that down on a per 90 basis, he's averaging 0.59 goals and non-penalty goals and primary assists per 90 minutes. That's not maybe elite, but it's... really damn good like that is that's solid production I mean that's better than a goal or an assist every every other game and that's basically but I think that's the if you had told me that this is what he would produce

If he would produce 0.59-ish goals and assists per 90 this year, I think I would have absolutely taken that at the start of the year. Obviously, a lot of that is he's got... three he's got two goals and an assist in the last two games and so that's beefing up those numbers but it's just a sort of a reminder he hasn't played that much like he's been healthy and like that you can

Maybe that's on him that he hasn't done enough to warrant more playing time. But I think what he's doing right now is showing that, yeah, this is a player who... should be on the field and he's going to get, I mean, it's, it's hard to imagine him, you know, he might not start every league's cup game, but I mean, I think he's probably the first choice left midfielder. And I suppose you can argue that's unfair to Paul Rothrock. But Rothrock hasn't...

I don't want to have it come off that I'm bad mounting Rothrock. He's a good player. I really want him on this team. I hope he gets paid this offseason. But really, he is a complimentary piece. He is a... useful piece to have on the roster. If Paul Rothrock is your starting winger, that is probably not a great sign. His best...

you know, his hundredth percentile performance is a lot lower than Pedro de la Vega's hundredth percentile performance. Yeah. And, you know, and you can kind of go down the list there. Rothrock, you know what you're going to get. But Pedro de la Vega, I think he showed in these games what he can do when he's like cooking. And one of the things I just love about him, I have said this before.

But man, that guy kicks the ball so hard. He does. He really does. Yeah. And he's like, I love watching him kick the ball hard. Critically, he's kicking the ball hard but low these days, which is a big development. It is, yeah. But I just see your point about Pedro and Rothrock and their relative ceilings.

Paul Rothrock was producing in terms of goals and assists, but if you looked at their underlying numbers, like their per 90 numbers, they were producing at about the same clip in terms of XG and G+, and everything. And that was Pedro underperforming. Just with these last two games, Pedro's underlying numbers are up there. And he's now produced at about the same level as Paul has this season.

in terms of the overall so i um i mean they both have three goals um pedro has two two fewer assists i guess so Paul has produced a little more, but Paul's paid 500 more minutes. So they're producing it about the same clip. Pedro's underlying numbers are much better. And it's just, it's hard for me to believe.

And like you, I want to stress, I'm not criticizing Paul Rothrock or minimizing his contributions or his abilities. But it's hard for me to believe that there are still people who don't understand that Pedro has a much higher ceiling. I really hope that those people have changed their mind over the last couple of weeks. That's the most satisfying thing, honestly.

about these last two games is there was sort of this building chorus of, okay, I hear what you're saying about... de la vega's skills and i hear what you're saying like if you're telling me he looks great in training i'm willing to believe you but at the end of the day i'd like to see it and and give me some evidence that he's actually producing. And this is sort of the evidence that he, what he looks like now.

can he maintain it? That's the big question. He's going to have to, he's going to have to maintain this. And, you know, he, he can't, you know, he can't just go into a three goal stint where he's not said, or a three game stint where he's just not producing any danger. He's got to be able to get himself into dangerous spots, get on the ball, be goal dangerous, setting up teammates. He's got to keep doing the stuff that he's doing, but it's good to see that he's...

shown that sign, you know, and he, that he's shown it against MLS opponents. Cause I kept pointing out that this is, you know, you look at his all comp numbers and he looked great. But it's fair to say, okay, but he had three goals against Antigua. Right. And by the way, if you look at his all comp numbers, his all comp numbers are actually pretty solid. Six goals and four assists.

I mean, it is true that you play who you put in front of you and scoring goals is hard no matter who you're playing. But it's also fair to say, yeah, I don't care too much about that. I think that's reasonable. I think if a player is... It's one of those things where it's like the player is producing in league games or against higher level competition.

nobody's going to get mad if you say, yeah, they scored X number of goals and include those goals when they're not producing. And you say, well, if you look at their full season statistics in all competitions, it's like, you know, if somebody scores a hat trick in the open cup against. Calif. Sacramento. Sacramento. Yeah, it's a totally valid criticism, I think, when a player isn't producing in the primary competitions.

Right. Exactly. All right. Well, I think that's probably a good place to call this. We're going to come back. We are going to talk a little bit about Leagues Cup. I want to get your perspective on maybe we'll even power rank. how we want the Sounders to do in League's Cup or what the ideal outcomes for League's Cup will be. But you are listening to Nos Arietes.

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Aaron and I are going to talk about Leagues Cup. And I think the avenue we want to use to talk about this as Leagues Cup is starting today, by the way. I don't know if you know this, Aaron, but there have been five games in Leagues Cup. It looks like MLS is going to win one. They're going to only win one game in a shootout. The only game they've won today is in a shootout. Maybe you know the answer to this, but do you know who the one team that...

San Diego, LAFC, Columbus Crew, CF Montreal, and I think there was one other game. I want... Maybe you probably know the answer to this, but I still think it's funny to ask you. Do you know what the results were today, Aaron? I do because you told me right before we started recording. Oh, okay. And then Houston was the other team. Oh, wait. There's seven games today. That's a lot.

That is a lot. All right, so here's this. Maybe we won't play this game. I'll just tell you. So there are seven, six games, six games today. Montreal, Columbus, New York City FC, Houston, LAFC. in San Diego. Only one MLS team won today. It was CF Montreal who is, I believe, the worst team in MLS right now. I believe that is correct.

It looks like LAFC still has a chance to win in penalties. Oh, you're right. I forgot it went to penalties. But they're playing Mazatlan. So how impressive is that, really? Yeah. Just kidding. I don't actually know if Mazatlan... San Diego got... Pounded by Pachuca. Tigris pounded Houston. Puebla, who I believe is one of the worst teams in League of MECs right now, destroyed NYCFC. Toluca beat Columbus in a shootout and Montreal beat Lyon, who is like a solidly mid table, maybe upper mid table.

What the hell is sports illustrated stadium? Sorry to, that's, that's the Red Bull arena. They renamed it. Oh, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Sports illustrated now is basically just a branding exercise. If you didn't. Yeah. Yeah. And so the company that owns them apparently felt compelled to, I mean, that is a bizarre way to spend money, but it is. And it's also funny that Red Bull would be selling.

naming rights to their stadium since they are an advertisement. It does seem a little counterintuitive. I agree with you there. Anyway, yeah, that's wild. That's very funny. It's pretty funny, I thought.

All right. So different strokes. Leagues Cup. So Leagues Cup. Here we are. I think a fun way to talk about this is to talk about power rank the five. five outcomes that we'd like to see from the Sounders. We're kind of cheating a little bit in this, but I think it's to make a point. Number five, what is the absolute worst?

outcome, Aaron. Let's start at the bottom. Well, maybe actually I take it back. This might be more fun to start at the top because I think starting at the top is a little bit more of a compelling build up to find out what you think the worst outcome is. So number one, okay. Winning it is... Whatever. We want the Sounders to win things. We are suckers for a trophy. Yeah. I mean...

I, my thing is, and this will become obvious as we go along. My thing is I want to qualify for the champions cup. This is the best chance they have right now. And if you're going to qualify for the champions cup, finish in the top three winning, it's the best outcome. You get a trophy. It's nice to win things.

Yeah. You know, you get the bragging rights. It's been a while since Sounders have won a trophy. So it has. Yeah. I mean, it hasn't really, it's been what three years. Like that's not exactly the Mariners. You're right. But by our standards, you know, it's, it's, it's been a while. So yeah, winning it definitely, definitely the best outcome. So don't let anyone tell you that no study at this is poo pooing the.

League's Cup because there you are. No, I still am. I still am. I will go on the record and say you want to win. Okay. Number two, what is the second best outcome for the Sounders? Second best outcome, I think, is finishing third, which sounds dumb, but this is my logic. You lose in a final. You end on a down note. It's a bummer to lose at a final. You were very close to winning silverware and you fell short. You get third.

You get an exciting third place game with actual stakes and that's, that's pretty rare, right? Like it's not the Olympics and soccer. Most of the time you're not getting a bronze medal, but here you get a champions cup birth and that's, that's cool. That's exciting. That's, that's what we're hoping for. You get to go out on a high note. And yeah, you know, you don't get a trophy, but the last game is fun. You get to enjoy a game with stakes and then get back to.

Champions Cup spot. Yeah, and that's the most important thing. Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you 100% on that. What's number three? What's number three on the list? I guess this is a little downer. This is obvious. Being third is the second best. What's number, what's number three? Being second is third best because you lose and that sucks. I mean, it's, it's the converse of everything we just said, right? Like, but you get the championship spot.

That's the most important thing, but it's a bummer. You lose out, you lose a final, and that sucks. Yeah, I would agree with you there. All right, so this is where it gets maybe a little bit more interesting. What's number four for you? Well, number four is... just not getting out of the group. It's not a group, but the phase, getting phased out, getting phased out. That's phase one. Yeah. If, if you are not going to qualify for champions cup,

I want this thing over and done with as soon as possible. Yeah. Ideally. Like if we had a crystal ball or a genie or whatever, and they say, I can't tell you what's going to happen, but I can tell you if you don't win your first game, you are no, there's no way you're making it to the champions cup. I would go for it in the first game and then play as many Defiance kids as I could in games two and three. That would be the ideal. I won't quite...

I'll add this caveat. I, I think the Sounders have a deep enough roster that I want to see different combinations. Like they've got enough guys. That's true. Yeah, that's fair. There's enough players, first team players that like Georgie Manungu can't get on the field. I want to see that guy play 180 minutes of the last two games if the Sounders... I don't mind that at all. I'll add this. I would love to see the Sounders go... If they're not going to win this thing...

going two and one and not getting out of the first phase would be fine with me. Like I would actually consider that kind of, kind of fine. Like I want to see them maintain their momentum. I want to see, I don't want to, I don't want to see them like just crap the bed against league. I don't, I don't ever enjoy watching them not do well. So like, I don't want this to like, I think back to 2023.

when they just got housed in both leagues cup games, that wasn't fun. That didn't feel good. I don't need to do that again. Last year was, even though they didn't get out of the, you know, and I guess you could argue that, you know, maybe we're not being totally fair here, but last year was a fun, that was a fun kind of run, but they won two knockout games.

It was a different tournament, different structure. So, you know, whatever. But I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to not see them just suck. That said, and I guess this is kind of where we have caveats here. Essentially, what's the worst? I won't even call it number five. What's the worst outcome, Aaron? The worst outcome is finishing fourth. Finishing fourth is the worst outcome.

Because you play all those games, you're probably going to be going really hard in the last few because you've got that chance to get Silverware and Champions Cup. You probably have... Christian and Obed are probably playing a ton of minutes. And yeah, it's, I think, the worst outcome. And then to get from that worst outcome to...

Finishing, you know, getting phased out, just add a game to getting phased out and go down the list. And then that's how you get to the end. Every extra game they play that doesn't lead to Champions Cup makes it worse for me. And I will say, one of the things that was different about... Part of the reason I wouldn't necessarily say that last year was an example of a worst-case scenario is because they took a long break from league play.

there was not leaks cup was not going on concurrently with league play at any point last year. Whereas this year, once you get out of phase one, you're now playing midweek games in leaks cup and playing league games on the weekend.

So it's a different structure in that way. And so there is a little bit more of a direct physical cost to advancing every round. And you're sort of... rolling the dice every you know i mean you only there's only three knockout rounds which i guess limits the the potential for disaster a little bit but you know it's a it is a it it

changes the equation a little bit whereas last year it's like you may as well win until you know you may as well win as long as you can go because you're just going to be having downtime you're just going to be having You weren't balancing league play at the same time. So that's what makes it a little bit different this year. And I agree with you. Finishing fourth is the worst. That is the worst outcome. You play three extra games.

you have to play in a third place game, which everyone agrees is kind of a silly thing to have to do. And of course you don't get the champions cup birth. And it's like, I guess you get to say you won some games, but. who cares ultimately? Like if you don't have anything to show for it and you, especially if you've been, you know, I suppose it's maybe it's different. If you were able to get to fourth place while using your reserves and you're able to.

effectively balance league play maybe that's a slightly different thing but by the way we're in we're round 11 of the no we're in round 12 of the shootout right now good heavens That sounds that sounds exciting. Almost. I mean, it's kind of we just had the goalkeepers kick and that was fun. Yeah, that's that's always fun. That's always nice. You always love that.

Looks like Mazatlan won. Oh, okay. Well, I guess you're ahead of me then. Oh, well, sorry. Sorry to spoil that. Also, don't listen to this if you were going to watch that game later. Right, yeah. If you were going to go back and rewatch. Leaks cup on replay. It is funny. Yeah. The score, the score bug is faster than real times is like on TV is pretty funny. That's pretty funny. Yeah. All right. Well,

I think we, we settled it. So the Sounders got to go win this thing. If you're going to, if you're going to, if you're going to win game, if they like, I guess basically if they beat Cruz Azul, you better go win this whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, that's the toughest game. I think Cruz Azul is still the best team in CONCACAF. Best team in North America, I think, in the region.

I guess that's what Konkief is. Yeah. And, you know, I think like, I don't, I don't think that Botafogo is that much better than them and Botafogo is. really good so yeah um you know if you can beat cruises all i think you've got to feel like you can beat the other teams you're up against um and if you can beat those guys you can beat anybody else in the competition and blah blah blah blah so

It would be nice, and I think similar to Club World Cup, maybe these guys could use the confidence boost that, hey, you can hang with these teams, but win the whole thing if you're going to do it. And if you're not going to win the whole thing, finish third. Just, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And well, so I will add while we're here, these results, I suppose, are good for the Sounders' chances of advancement because they are basically...

No MLS team got three points today. Montreal was the only team that even got two points. Everyone else got one or zero. I guess that's... uh, that's more evidence that if they can beat cruises, all that are in great position. Uh, but I think that's, that's what we got, Aaron. That's what we got. Um, we'll see if there's some transfer, maybe, maybe.

by recording today, we'll force some transfer news to happen. Remember, we used to be able to do that. Oh man, those were the days. That was nice. Yeah, that was really nice. Those were the days. Oh, not to keep hard put on this, but Belonga is the guy that missed the penalty. I know. I just saw it. And he skied it. That makes it so much nicer. All right. I like Weeks Cup again.

Yeah, that would be nice. I would love to see the Sounders spend money. I will say the... I'll close with this note. From the people that I've been talking to, they... I usually get a pretty good sense of how confident they are that they're going to get someone and they seem reasonably confident that they're going to sign someone. Either this Noah Ohio guy who is the...

Dutch striker that has been most directly linked to the Sounders or someone else. So I'm going to be, hopefully, but it would be nice if they got this done by the end of Leagues Cup, I think. Yeah, it would be nice if they... If they had, I'm assuming whoever they sign is probably going to be a striker. So it would be nice if they had them on the team with enough time to contribute this season. Yeah.

Osase looked great against Atlanta. He scored the goal. I like him a lot as a player, but I like him a lot better as the third striker than the backup striker. And I don't like his, this rare getting minutes at striker either. So yeah, it'd be nice to get that wrapped up. Definitely before the end of the week's cup, it'd be nice. Like you said, to get it wrapped up by tomorrow.

And I'll tell you, Jeremiah, I would not sneeze at another defensive midfielder either. You know, the Sounders just signed standard Brunel, but JP's still a few weeks out at least. Right. You said, I think today, maybe four weeks. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's tough because that's, you know, that's just a lot of minutes for Christian and Obed to have to struggle through. And even if he's back in a month, like how healthy is he going to be?

fresh is he going to be how capable of contributing is he going to be right away so i still that's for me still a priority for them so can you imagine if they sign two players in this window can you imagine be pretty unbelievable can you imagine Well, that's a good note to end on, I think, on that hopeful note of maybe signing two players. Who knows? But I'll take one. One foreign signing. That's what I'm going to set the bar at. That's what we need to be.

Reasonably satisfied here. Everyone else is signing. Vancouver Whitecaps are signing Thomas Mueller on TAM deals. Inter-Miami is signing DePaul on... Tam deal. One of those is a valid Tam deal. One of them is one of the, you know, imagine not to get too, too distracted here, but if, if LAFC had signed.

thomas muller on a tam we would have been losing our minds i would have been pretty annoyed about that um but i mean it's not like they had great luck with their old guy last time so i i actually i think muller is the perfect signing for Vancouver because he's, he's Tam. So he's not taking a DB spot and he doesn't have to be. you know, an MVP caliber player to justify his spot. He fits really well into their team. And he's also like, yeah, he's an old guy, but his game was never about...

Being the most athletic guy you're ever going to see. Right. So I think he's really exciting for them and, you know, good for them, I guess. I don't, I don't have anything against Vancouver. I know. I just have such a hard time getting worked up over Vancouver. All right. And good for, you know, good for them. They're calling it the biggest signing in team history. So. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, Ryan Gold's a better player, but. Yeah. But. At this point in his career.

Right. I agree. Nobody get mad at me. All right. Well, let's call it there. Thank you to our sponsor, Full Pull Wines and Hacks and Ferments. Thank you to Lick It for producing this thing. Of course. Thank you to all of you for continuing to subscribe. We are now heading into August. August is the most important month in Sounder at Heart for Sounder at Heart subscribers. This is the time of year where basically...

The biggest chunk of our subscribers are asked to renew their subscriptions. So I hope you will do that. If you really want to be awesome, you can upgrade your membership. That would be even more awesome. But things are going well. They can never be going too well in this world of chat GPT and everything else that is sucking the life out of real people doing real journalism. And I like to think that's what we do here. So please consider.

upgrading your membership. If you don't, I hope you at least will maintain your membership. And with all that said, I'm Jeremiah Shine, signing off for Aaron Campo. This is No Sadietes, part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. Remember, you'll never get alone. I expect the LAFC who is motivated to prove themselves at home, to prove to their fans that they're capable of winning in this league. And it's up to us to really brew in the party.

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