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Welcome to another episode of Nos Audietis sponsored by Fulpool Wines and our subscribers. We're recording on Wednesday, September 4, 2024. I am your host Jeremiah Oshan. I am joined by my co-host Aaron Campo as well as our engineer Liket. Just as it seemed we were all getting ready to get excited about this season, the senders gave us a one-two punch of crappy results. The latest came on Saturday when they dropped a 1-0 decision to the Portland Timbers, a team that we were told could not defend
for anything. Now they're looking at a game against Columbus Crew in a stretch run that is manageable but still a bit daunting. As we look down the barrel of the seven games sprinted to decision day, Aaron, what do you make of things? It wasn't a great feeling at the end of that one. Mark and I talked last week about whether or not the open cup result had changed the way we felt about the Portland result. I think that the consensus was, it's now as a good past LAFC and in the final of the open
cup, we don't care what happens to the Portland. Mark and I's consensus was, well, they didn't do that. Now they need to go to an Portland and they didn't do that. I think more than just not getting the result, not getting a win, not getting a point even to do it in a 1-0 is really I think disheartening. I don't think they played terribly. They did create some decent chances. Portland actually defended pretty well, I think. It was a reminder of the
margins that this team is dealing with. If a team makes a couple of heroic defensive plays, that can be enough to keep you off the scoreboard. I think against the team like Portland that has just been so terrible defensively, it sends you back to the battle days a little bit. I'm not saying we're back there. I think there are a lot of caveats to this game. The founders played three games in a week. They've played a ton of games lately. They did create
good chances. Portland did get a lot of, I think, good luck in the game. The goal they scored was off a deflection. I thought if there was a genuinely encouraging thing, it's that the founders did not really look bothered by the timbers in attack and the timbers are legitimately very good attack and a attacking team. They really didn't create a whole lot themselves. I would have much rather lost that game three to two, I think, than one no.
I went back and watched the game live. I was really, really frustrated with not just the result, but what I felt like was a kind of feckless offensive performance. It was important for me to go through and watch the game again. I will say they were more dangerous on rewatch than I thought they felt in real time. The numbers are not kind to them. I will admit they didn't create a ton of great scoring chances. They weren't credited with a single
big chance, which was in the second game in a row that then had a big chance. That's obviously concerning. They did create some genuine danger. Most of that danger came from either set pieces or the sounders beating guys on the dribble and then putting a ball into a danger space. George Jim and Nungu was by far the sort of revelation in that sense. He was everything that the timbers could have possibly had. It was remarkable how good
he looked coming off the dribble. He put some dangerous balls in. I wouldn't even criticize him for lacking the final product that has been the knock against him. At the end of the day, it was a 1-0 loss that felt just so similar to the way the season started in that there was a vague sense of danger, but no end product. Nothing really there. For the sounders to drop two games in a row, 1-0, it's a real slammy back down to earth experience.
Yeah, it is because I think as painful as the last LAFC was, as painful as all those lost LAFCs have been, I think everybody is just kind of accepted that they're the bogey team and that the sounders just aren't getting past them. It's not going to happen this year. They're better. They're a bad matchup. All that. The timbers are not, I don't think the timbers are better. I think the sounders have shown a lot of progress in the areas where
they had concerns in this game. They looked good against Minnesota. They looked good against the galaxy. They looked good against us. There have been all these things that I think really did have people mostly turned around and they've shown the ability to bounce back from those disappointing losses to LAFC. Have this game like this was, I just just a big time left down. I don't think it's really the end of the world. It hurts in the table
for sure, but I think it's a game they could afford to lose. It was. All things being equal. Going up with their next one being away to Columbus, certainly that makes the timing less than ideal, I think, to potentially drop to in a row, although who knows what they're going to do in Columbus. It felt a lot worse than I think it realistically is. But that matters, I think, at this point in the year.
This is a season that has felt the vibes have felt off from jump, frankly. It just as it seemed like it was leveling up in that way, they were in the quarterfinals of the league's cup. They were in the semi-finals of the US Open Cup. I don't know if anyone really thought they were going to win league's cup, but there was good feeling around the way they were playing. They beat a couple good teams. You go out of the league's cup, okay,
whatever. You win that Minnesota game. You still have the Open Cup to play for. That feels realistic. It feels like, maybe this is where we can get over on LAFC. Even if we don't turn around the broad narrative around it, at least we can get, we have them where we want them. It's setting up well. We know what happens there. And then the Portland game again, not a great team, but a team they had already beaten. It was a game that had
potential to inject some life into the season. They just didn't come through. It does give me pause about where this season is going. I don't know how I don't know that I have ever looked at this team and thought, oh, they're an MLS Cup contender. But it's a little rough when you realize that's sort of what the season rests on in terms of it being a successful season. And for this to be the 50th anniversary season and us sitting here
with seven games left to go. And it's like, it's really MLS Cup or bust. I don't know what they can do for the rest of the way, short of getting to MLS Cup that's going to make this season feel anything less that they could win their last seven games, which would be great. Don't give me wrong. Sure. But I don't know that if they win their last seven games and then they go out in the conference finals, I don't know that the season will feel
successful. I know. I don't think so. I mean, I think it's one of those things where I think it matters how you're defining your terms. And it's a totally subjective thing because my success is not your success is not anybody else's success. For me, it's like a lot of it is, did I have a good time watching this team? Yeah. And the highs can make up for a lot of lows if they're high enough. But I don't see myself looking back on the season
fondly unless they do anything like when when I'm a LOS Cup. I just it's because it's going to feel like, well, yeah, I mean, they're kind of set up to play boring soccer that can be effective in a playoff game. So it's not shocking they had to run in the playoffs, but I don't believe this team is a good soccer team. I didn't think the 2016 sounders were a good soccer team, but when in the MLS Cup made up for a lot of that, right? So if
they managed to do that again, hey, great. I'm not going to I'm not going to complain. I'll look back on it very fondly. But I just I don't think they're going to do that. I don't think that they have the thing that made the difference in 2016 was Nicola Dero and they do not have 2016 Nicola Dero. They just don't have that kind of guy who is going
to take over games and will things to happen. And I mean, if they meet LFC in the playoffs, I would if I were a gambling man, I would bet my entire 401k on a LFC to win that game, which is probably what the sounders would need to actually be able to beat them would be that carmic balance. But yeah, I just they're just kind of the nothing meh sort of team. Like they have good players. They're not a bad soccer team. I still think they probably
finish in the top four in the West. I think on paper, there have been there have been worse sounders teams for sure. There have been equally boring or frustrating sounders teams. So I don't want to make it sound like this has like been the worst season ever by any stretch of the imagination. But I think for a year when there was a lot of I think excitement at the beginning of the year, there was a lot of potential with it being the 50th anniversary.
Everything pretty much that could have gone poorly has gone poorly off the field and on. And I think a lot of it was avoidable. You know, we've talked about it to death. And so I don't necessarily want to get into it. But it's just it really is nothing around the team feels all that fun right now except for Georgie more or less. Yeah, I mean, Jordan, hey, you know, well, we'll talk about that in a second. I do want to just it feels worth repeating that this
season is starting to feel much more like a bridge to something. It's either a bridge to a new era of lower expectations or it's sort of a bridge to the next hopefully positive era. But it like this feels like a transition. It feels like a transition here and did not seem like it had to be that way. Like there was a way to set this season up in a way where even if there was a lot of turnover, it was a it felt good about closing the book. You know, I just recently found out
that Brian Schmetzer is going to be out of contract in the end of the year. I don't know what that means. It's entirely possible he'll be resigned and they'll be back. But that's just another piece, another big piece of this team that we don't know we don't know what's next with it. And this offseason is I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say that regardless of how the rest of this season goes, the offseason is going to tell us just a whole lot about where this is going,
what you know what what the sounders even want to be. Yeah, it's like it's hard to overstate how big this offseason is going to is and they can't afford to just wait until the summer and ask everyone to trust them. I think what really has to happen this offseason is the sounders need to come out with a really clear plan about what what are we doing? What what are where are we trying to go? What are we trying to be? Are we are the sounders now a developmental team? Are they a team that
expects to win trophies? What what are they and how are we getting there? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, I was just going to say that you know, I I maintain the position that I have a lot of frustration with the way the front office seems to be approaching things with the way ownership seems to be approaching things. But their frustrations I think I'm coming to the opinion that they're frustrations that I've had for a long time with the way the sounders process works and it's just
been sort of exacerbated. Maybe it's gotten worse, but I do think a lot of is circumstantial. Just the sounders have never really been in a position where they had multiple club legends sort of
falling off a cliff at the end of a super successful era blah blah blah blah. And and I feel like the most likely outcome as the sounders come out, they make at least two major signings in the off season, they make some other changes, you know, they maybe move some players around, they make some some difficult decisions, some painful decisions, and then they, you know, go out and make another major signing in the during the summer window. That's kind of the impression that Craig
Weibel gave the team. And by major signings, you know, I mean like a major signing, I mean a Raul Ruida as Niko Lidero calibre signing adjusted for the comment or the modern Emma Las era, right? I think that that's what they're going to do. And I don't necessarily blame other people for being skeptical of that. I think some of the skepticism goes beyond skepticism into cynicism, humorism where people are saying they're not going to sign anybody in the off season.
You know, they're going to pretend like they tried, then maybe they'll sign somebody during the summer. I don't think that's a reasonable position to take. But if they don't deliver or get close to those expectations, it's going to fundamentally change the way I feel about the club and about ownership and about what I think the right next steps for the club are and for ownership are in a way that will fundamentally change, I think my relationship with the club
and how I feel about the club as a fan. And I really don't want that to happen. I mean, the sounders have been a constant in my life for a long time now through good times and bad. And the highs of far outweighed the lows. And to have that relate the nature of that relationship change so dramatically where I just don't feel like I can trust them to compete anymore, to do what they need to do to be competitive would feel really, really bad. And I just just not, you know, I've
already lived through that with the Mariners. I don't really want to want to do it again. And you know, there was a time in my life where the Mariners were as big a deal, if not bigger a deal to me than the sounders. And that changed when they stopped doing what they needed to do to be competitive despite having the resources to do it. And I don't want the sounders, I don't want
that to happen to the sounders. And I will say for sure that even if they try to get signings over the line and they're willing to spend and they're committed to doing it and they don't do it, it's not going to be that much better because you can't say, well, you know, I'm willing to accept Craig saying, look, we had a budget we had to work with. We weren't willing to add players just for the sake of adding them. So we thought it was better not to do anything. I don't necessarily
think that's the right approach, but I can understand it in the context of that window. That's not going to fly in the off season. No, it's not going to fly. So you have to, you have to deliver. You just, you have to. And yeah, it's a big off season. I think it's pretty hard to deny that it's the biggest off season clubs ever had. Thank you for listening to the Sounder Heart Podcast Network, which now includes no sunny at this, lobbying scorchers and the cooler yield.
We've been independent since August of 2023, but need your support to make sure it continues. Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible by your continued support. Membership start as low as $25 a year, which not only helps make podcasts like this one happen,
but also gives you access to everything we produce. If you're able to support us at higher levels, starting at $75 a year, you gain access to a host of other perks, most notably entry into our members only discord, where the smartest, funniest, and most engaged commenters share their thoughts and ideas. To find out more, just visit senderatheart.com and click the subscribe button in the top right corner. Thanks for listening. Yeah, I, you know, I look back at the other seasons that we would
maybe put in this category. I would probably put 2013 in a similar category, probably but 2015 in the similar category, where they were seasons that had promised, but ultimately, nothing to show for it. I guess maybe in last year you could put in that, and that, and that, and I guess that's the other thing that is tough, is I don't know that they've ever had back to back seasons, where it felt like they, there was no real progress. I guess last year you could argue,
there was progress in a very specific way of figuring out a way to play. I do think they made some progress in terms of finding a style, and I guess to some degree, they've maintained that, but there was no trophies. They didn't, they didn't win the cat, even the Catskadiacup. They made the playoffs. They were competitive. I think we, we insisted all year that they were a team that was on its day as good as anyone in the West last year, but it was also, you know, fairly
went out that it was a down, a down year for the West. And this year has been, you know, there's, it's not that there's been no positive moments. They've looked like a decent team for months, which is great. Like it's been, they've had some fun games at home, which I think is something that we had big to happen again. For sure. Like I don't want to, I don't want to make it sound like this has been a horrible year from head to tail, but it's not a, there's not been real progress.
And this was the 50th anniversary year. I think it's worth remembering. There was a lot of hype and attention that went into this being the 50th anniversary season. And that has fallen pretty flat to the most part. I don't know that there has been a, a single moment this year where the 50th anniversary felt really big and, and inclusive and celebratory. Like I don't, I don't know that we ever got that really. It's been an afterthought. It's been like an afterthought. Oh, poorly handled.
It was so hyped up. They, they came out with all this like 50th anniversary merch. They had a new brand identity. We were promised that it was going to be a big deal. And it never was. And I think that's the thing. Yes, that's, that's not the whims of matches. This is stuff where people in the front office can literally pull levers. And I, I am sure I know that they've had some events
for, you know, like the Ray of Gala. I, I wasn't there from everything I heard it was great. But that's like, those are barely even season, there are some season, naked holders are, but that's not even an event first. That's, that's for, that's like beyond the average fan. That's not something the average fan is engaging in. It's, it's, you know, so there has been a few things like that, I suppose. But in terms of like things that the average season, ticket holder, let alone the
average fan can like touch and feel and, and, and have a sense of connection with the club. I don't, I don't know that there's been anything like that. I mean, you look at the ring of honor, which could have been, which should have been this huge deal. And instead, it ended up being a, like a banner that you go print at kinkos or whatever. Yeah. And, and it does look better down. They have it on it. It's, there's an LED board. It's good. Why not wait to unveil it until then.
Yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's, it's because this is stuff that they used to be good at. Right. And that's, that's the thing that's so baffling to me. Is it's just like you used to be good at creating a good game day atmosphere. You used to be good about marketing. You used to be good. Putting aside the fact that they used to be good on the field too. Right. There's all this stuff they've always been good at. And I know that they notice that attendance is bad.
The relatives to what we've come to expect. Yeah. I know that they know that the, the results aren't good enough. I, you know, I know they heard the booze at full time against LAFC at Starfire. Like they're aware of this stuff. And the fact that they don't seem really that all that committed to fixing any of it is just, is, is crazy to me. It's, it's absolutely baffling to me. And I know there's a lot, there's a lot of problems that you say you can't just throw money on it.
It's, it's this, this is a little bit like you could throw money on it. Like, if you just come out and say we have a $20 million transfer budget or whatever, maybe that $20 million. But we have $20 million to go out and sign new players. God, that, that would get, that would turn things around. Right. That would at least give people hope that, like, and I feel like that's kind of what they have. They're at the point now, you know, in 2018, Garth talked about, you know, we were at a,
a real low point in the summer of 2018. I don't know how many people remember this, but 2018 was pacing to be a all-time, epic failure of a season. It was awful. And at one point, right before the transfer window opened, Garth came out and said effectively, we are going to have a eight-figure budget to go and find another designated player. And of course, he delivered that was, right. That was when I said, there was, there was, for sure, people who said he was lying.
For sure. Yeah. There were absolutely, like, a not insignificant amount of them. Yeah. That's, that is absolutely true. But there was, that gave, that was this, it created the sense of, like, right, we're going to happen. We got to go do something here. And I almost think we're
right at the point now where the sounders have to sort of go and do that. And I don't frankly know if they have a budget yet for, actually, I'm pretty sure they don't have a transfer, they have, they have not articulated within the front office the, what, how much money they have to spend, yet, which is, that's a concern. Now, yeah. The expectations are going to be real money, that they're going to go out and make a big signing. They have money in the budget.
How much is, obviously, a big variable, because if all you have is, let's just say, $5 million and you, that's all in $5 million, just call it. Okay. So maybe you can only go out and sign a free or something. That's one kind of player. If you have $10 million to go on, that's a whole different kind of player, right? Right. And so these are the things they, they probably need to work out before they get too far down this thing. I don't know. It's, it, if you only have the budget
to go sign a free, then we're not getting shit until the summer. Maybe that, I mean, that's possible. And, but these are the things they need to come out and say, right? They need to be really clear about what the, and I don't, and I got to, I'll be clear. I don't know that that's the, I don't, I don't, I don't know that, right? I'm just, the door things out there. It's, but that would be something that they need to say. They need to go out and set the
expectation. Yes. We have money for a, you know, we don't have a transfer budget right now, but we do or whatever. We have $5 million to sign players. We have $10 million. We have whatever. Like, right. The, the best thing that Garth did at Atlanta this last year in a way was to say, hey, we have $50 million. They didn't spend all that admittedly and people are really bad. But I do think it's, it's, it's you're being honest with your fans. I think there's,
it's got to be some level of appreciation. Of course, then he went out and fired Carlos Bogat. I mean, these are the stakes, right? These are what happens. Right. You, yeah, because he made, he, he basically, he didn't come out and say we're going to spend $50 million, but he certainly implied they were going to spend a big chunk of it. And then the guy in charge of spending it
didn't get it done. Right. Yeah. And so you should have gotten fired, you know. Like, if Craig Weibull has a significant amount of money to spend this summer, and I think we've both been pretty staunch defenders of his that he should at least have the chance to show what he can do. If he can't deliver, he probably shouldn't be around anymore. Well, if they don't have, and if he doesn't have the faith of like, it's also possible that Adrian just doesn't want to give
him the money to spend because he doesn't have faith. Like, this is possible. Sure. Then what Adrian has to do is hire someone. He trusts. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you can't just not do that. You can't, this is not a way to operate a team. Right. Adrian used to be the GM. He could go back to being the GM if he wants to. I don't think anybody wants that. I don't think Adrian wants that. I don't want that. Like, I don't think anybody wants that. But he either needs to do it or let the guy
who he hired to do it do it. Or find somebody else that can work as that intermediary to, you know, to be able to advocate for Craig, whatever it is. But you got to get something done. And I agree with you. Like, I think it's a major red flag. If they can't go out and buy a player in the winter, because they chose not to do it when the free agents were available, the good ones the summer, they chose not to do it. And they chose not to make. So you need to be
able to deliver in the winter. But I would rather have that expectation set of like, look, we're probably not going to be able to make a transfer until next summer. Or we're not going to be able to, you know, pay DP money until next summer. So we're going to make some tam signings, whatever. We're going to improve the roster. But the big improvement will come next summer. I think that sucks. But you're setting the expectations. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It sucks. Like, I'm not going to be here.
It's that you're an act like I'm going to be thrilled with that. But if they really believe they can sort of, I mean, there's like, there is a different kind of pressure. It's like, well, then you need to be able to put out a roster that is, but that can actually muddle through the first two thirds of the season. Yeah. Which they don't, they don't have right now. They straight up. They don't have based on who's leaving. That's for sure. Yeah. And like,
they, they're playing in the club world cup. Do you care about club world cup? Like, like they can't, no, I agree with you. They can't afford it. They, they, they can't, they can't, they can't go into the club world cup of the roster. They have to be minus a few players that are going to be leaving presumably this off season. It, it's starting. It feels to me. And by going on
making big signings in the winter, they could totally change this perception. It feels to me like, when Adrian commits to spending the money and what it's time to spend the money, he always makes the funds available and they tend to knock the signings out of the park. They hit on their big DP signings. And I think that that's commendable. And I think to some degree, the conservative
approach is responsible for that. But I also think that, and this is just perception, based on the way these things have gone in the past and are going now, that the organizational philosophy is we have our long term spending strategy on when we're going to replace our DP's, when we're going to make our big signings. And we're not going to deviate from that. Whether it's the 50th anniversary, whether we're playing in the club world cup, whatever, this is our strategy. This is
our these are our long term goals. And it just doesn't seem like they're willing to pivot for that from from that, which I just think is really short-sighted. I agree. So before we get out of here, we're already doing a little bit of a shorter episode. Let's do a quick look ahead to this game and maybe the, you know, the crew are going to be missing seven players for this game. Crazy. Now they're missing six of those players are starters. And then the seventh player
is their backup goalkeeper. So they're missing their top two goalkeepers and and five starting outfield players. This is going to be now I will say the crew out of the depth to still be very competitive in this game. Diego Rossi is going to be on this team. Ramirez is still their goal. They're is probably going to be starting out forward.
Nagby is here. You know, they've got they've got players, right? This is not this is and by the way, it wasn't so different when the crew faced the sounders in the in endless cup of 20 to 20. We all know how I don't know. I'm not going to bring that juju in here. What am I talking about? Sounders will be missing two players. They're something to be out without new who they're also going to be with. Oh, babe, Burgess. What's your
expectation of this game? And does I because I would imagine before you knew they had seven players, you were like, whatever they they're not going to see. But I don't know how to kill. I mean, I this the sounders that the sounders are weird enough team that I don't I'm never going to say I feel confident that I that I know it's going to happen. But yeah, I definitely think that the the circumstances of the game make me feel, you know, a little better about it.
You know, them being without so many players. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that's what they do. The crew, you know, we've talked about how terrible will match up L.A.F.C.R. for the sounders. I think the crew, even though they have a lot of similarities to L.A.F.C.R. or or a better match up for the sounders. I agree. I think there's more is less likely to frustrate the center's like it beat to the ground. Don't we wrong? But I don't think it's going to be a
it will be a different kind of situation. Yeah, I mean, the crews, the crew do have the best defense in in the league. And I think that that is a huge factor, you know, that gives me pause. And I think that their defenses as good as it is, obviously the players are a huge part of it. Players are always the most important factor. But I think organizationally and systemically, they're just really hard to score on. Similar to how branch match teams are always hard to score on,
no matter who's who's there. I think that the crew are the same way. And so I think really the more realistic hope is a point from this game. But I think a point in Columbus feels great. And I don't care how many people are missing. Yeah. You know, they they have lost one game at home this year. And I would I think it's crazy to expect the sounders to hand them their second loss. But I do think a point is is totally doable here. I think it has the potential to be one of the
most boring games you've ever seen in your life. It kind of that that Atlanta game, the notorious Atlanta game that was the Nell-Nell. I don't even remember what that was. Somehow, was it 2021? But it was the sounders in Atlanta had a Nell-Nell. That was 2018, I believe. 2019. And it was 2018. No, 2018 was the year. Yeah, it was 2018. That was the new ideas was, yeah, yeah, it was great. And it was because it was after like the World Cup final, I think, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So people are like, oh, you're going to go from watching the best soccer in the world to let me have to watch that. I think it could be a game like that potentially. Or could not, who knows who knows? The sounders have surprised us so many times this year. They are legitimately good on set pieces now, which is always, you know, a wild card in games like these. If they can get a goal from a set piece early enough, I trust their ability to, to
weather the storm, you know, and at least ride it to a one-one or something. I don't know. So I genuinely have no idea what to expect. I don't either. Yeah. A win would be, it would make me feel so much better about the loss in Portland. I wouldn't feel great about it, but it would, I would feel much better. But I think most likely we're going to have to wait until, you know, for a couple of weeks before we can really feel all that great about things.
Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. And, you know, I don't know, I think, let's put it this way. If we think the sounders have any chance of winning MLS Cup, which right now I don't give us a great chance at doing, they probably need to figure out a way to get a result on the road against the crew when they are missing seven players. Because I guarantee if they were to play in MLS Cup, it would be at least this tough of us a matchup. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. They're going
to have to beat a team as good as the crew minus seven players in the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But I think getting a point, getting a point from this game and then going into, you know, three straight games at home against beatable point opponents. And really the rest of the season, I think after this game, the toughest game left is Colorado and Colorado and the sounders are leaving pretty good in Colorado. And I think Colorado are not as good as maybe their record
would indicate. But, you know, the sounders have only beaten a team above them in the table on a technicality at this point. So, it's who knows who knows. I really want to believe that's just kind of a fluky thing. But it's getting tougher and tougher to maintain that position, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's probably a good place to call this. Aaron, thank you, of course, for doing this. I don't know why I say that at the end of the show. Why I say that. Thank you.
You're a nice thing to show. Oh, yeah. This is your show. Thank you to our sponsor. Oh, nice to meet you to say it. Yeah. Full crew lines. Thanks to Liquid for producing this thing. Let us know how it sounds because we are using a new software to record. So, if you have any feedback about the way it sounds, I'd be curious to hear what that might be. Absolutely. So, all that said, I'm Jeremy Oshan, signing off for Aaron Campo. This is no study at this. Remember, you'll never get alone.
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