Sounders so far proving resilient

Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, oh, shit. Let's go. Let's go. And now they truly can start the celebrations! It's the Sounders MLS Cup! Nicola now leaves absolutely no doubt! The Sounders rule the region! Ah, this feels fucking awesome. This is a tiny... Nice work on your little yacht thing. you know, what was the thought process?

in terms of who you decided to use. Ever since Sounder and Har wrote a commentary that we didn't take them seriously. This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Bull Bull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounders supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.

Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adientes, part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network. I am Jeremiah Oshan. Joining me today is my pleasure. A friend of mine that I've been wanting to get onto the pod for a while, Charlie Boehm. You know him from MLSsoccer.com. He's... one of their more featured writers there at this point and also just like a genuinely good human being who

I'll catch you maybe by surprise here. Almost everyone in the soccer writing world has very kind things to say about you, Charlie. It's almost a little surreal. You're like friends with everybody at school. there's got to be some haters out there, but they have not made themselves known. Not in the industry, I don't think. How lucky am I? I must not be going hard enough.

one of my proudest moments was recently you were on scuffed and uh and vince when you were on and Vince said to you that you and I were like the two people who have been helping and I was like that is some great company to be included with from Vince And Charlie in the same, I was like, it totally caught me by surprise, but it was an awesome little. Me too. What an honor, man. Vince is a real one. I know. I love him. But anyway, Charlie, thank you for doing this.

We're going to try to do sort of a regular show, but before we get into that, I do want to introduce our audience to you a little bit more. I don't know if everyone is going to know too much about you, and I'm curious too. How did you get your start in this industry? I'll try to be less boring and lengthy than the story generally requires. But this was a side hustle for me for a long time, I guess like many others. I'm now middle-aged, but in the early years of internet soccer.

I responded to a job, I guess a job, a gig posting on SoccerNet. For the oldies who remember before ESPN FC, there was SoccerNet.com. And they were looking for riders in MLS markets. And this was back in 2004. Oh, God, I'm old. Yeah, and so there was a whole convoluted situation where a guy was... was kind of accumulated, was building a network of writers and then he was selling our content to originally on multiple sites and then it ended up becoming

um, the, the league website sort of network of, of, of coverage. Uh, so back then we're going way back here. Uh, I was writing for MLS net.com and I made, Oh yeah. A couple hundred to occasionally low. If things were really good, you could maybe make, not at the start, but by the end, maybe things you could make low four figures a month, maybe, if your team was good and played lots of games. But it was basically that for a long time.

uh, MLS net. And then afterwards, MLS soccer, uh, which the rebrand was in 2010, uh, had, had, had a beat writer at every single game for a while. It was even, that's how I got my start too. There you go. There's many, many people who have done good stuff in the business, got their start with this, but it wasn't a full-time, but it was something where I had a... a K Street public relations job that allowed me to go take long lunches once a week and cover DC United as a side hustle.

In somewhere around 2013 or so, I was able to sort of shift things and take a flyer at a full time. life doing this. And I consider myself very fortunate to still be here a decade later now.

Well, Charlie, that is fascinating. I didn't know that you went that far back in this industry. But yeah, the old network of MLS beat writers at MLS soccer was kind of an underappreciated... like you know I think that got a lot of a lot of people in this industry got their start there that and SB Nation which I also obviously came through but like those were without those two places I don't know where this industry would be because that's like

Between those two places, it's a very high percentage of people who sort of cut their teeth being able to sort of pretend to be full-time writers yeah we really did ourselves too and we explained to young people that there was a time when you couldn't just watch a three-minute highlight pack to see how your team did in the last game. One, you might not have had the option to watch your team on TV because it was... relatively recently in the grand scheme of things that you could get most

let alone all MLS games on a, on a television broadcast on cable or whatever online. And so they asked us to write, write up recaps and ciders. And it was like, You write a recap that you'd follow up the whistle of what happened, and then you'd go downstairs and talk to players and coaches and do a cider afterwards, and that was... That was the job. Yeah, I know. It was the other thing that's kind of funny. People don't always appreciate this is that for all the negative.

press around the current state of soccer journalism in particular is that you don't have to go that far back when there was just almost no soccer journalism. Like there were not full-time people working in this industry. Most newspapers weren't sending beat writers out. Most newspapers still don't send beat writers out to a lot of these teams on a daily basis, but it used to be worse. There used to be even fewer outlets that covered this.

There were very few national publications that covered it with any serious rigor, let alone beat coverage. And so I sometimes have to remind people that we're... We can still be better. Things can still improve, but you don't have to go that far back to look at a time when this league was almost... playing in a vacuum. It was barely accessible outside of the most hardcore fans. I'm glad that you've been able to make this journey. With all of us.

Indeed. So, yeah, let's get into a little bit more of what I would say the normal show. This is going to be a busy stretch for the Sounders all of a sudden. i don't feel like we we oftentimes do these early week shows that are sort of framed around uh

We have this conceit that we've been calling how the West will be won, and we kind of go through the Western Conference. We're not going to quite do the exhaustive look at the Western Conference, but we are going to take a little bit of a broader look. But let's start with the Sounders. who are coming out of a 1-0 win over Dallas. I've been saying for weeks that this was a must-win game for the Sounders. They have this very busy stretch.

This game against Dallas, I felt like was a must win in part because it was a team they should be, but also they're in a situation where they need to win home games. They got the job done. They only won 1-0. It was on a penalty. I would say in the run of play, I thought that they were okay, even if the result was not exactly in the way that you would want. But at the same time, it left...

Some room for questioning a few things, not the least of which, there's a lot of injuries on this team that are starting to pile up to key players. Last week, they were missing Jordan Morris. They were missing Danny Masofsky. That led to Jesus Ferreira getting the start up at the number nine. Then in the game, they lost Yamar. They were already missing Jackson Reagan.

A few of those players look like they're going to be coming back soon. But what do you make of where the Sounders are sort of right now as we record this on Tuesday, May 27th? Yes. So I, you know, There's this funny pattern, I think, that I think you guys locally there and we nationally tend to fall into with the Sounders this year in particular and going back some time now, arguably a decade or more.

which is just that the atmosphere around this team and this club is so different or so far ahead of the MLS norm. For someone like me, I feel very factually grounded in saying the expectations are fundamentally higher. the the the norms or the mean is just it's just ahead and that leads to sort of a lot of people i'm sure a lot of listeners being unsatisfied by me saying

You know, things are going better than you think. Like when you look at what's happened, how poor things were at the start of the season, how many... serious injuries, how many nagging injuries, how much disruption there's been to any attempt to have anything like a first choice 11 that can... start and work together and build understanding. match day after match day, right? There's been so much disrupting that and so much sort of adaptation that's had to take place.

And they still control almost every game they're in. They're still typically the better team in terms of underlying numbers, eye tests, or some combination thereof. And they're still players that are... important players that are really short of, I think, the realistic ceiling you could expect them to reach at some point this season or beyond.

You know, a game like that where you say, all right, that's a Dallas team that's drifting a bit right now that is much further away from their true selves than the Sounders are. They should be put to the sword and you let them hang around and so forth. I think you just have to take a result like that and move forward because we're in the time of year now where the matches really pile up and the direction of the season starts to really be set with the results you get or don't get.

you know, over the next few weeks and couple months. And then, of course, I'm saying that, you know, being fully aware that there's this rather large, rather exceptional Club World Cup expedition that is going to dominate. everything around SSFC in just a matter of days. You bring up how much change the Sounders have gone through on a week-to-week basis, basically. I actually keep track of how many changes they make from one game to the next. They're averaging four changes a game.

which seems really high to me. They've only had one game this year where they were able to start the same lineup, the exact same lineup back-to-back. And this, you know, this game was, they only made one change, which is, you know, that's only like the third or fourth time this year that they only had to make one change, which is like to say.

they will you know lots of teams will make one change just to for any number of reasons not necessarily health not necessarily form whatever right uh but you know the sounders are routinely making three four changes uh because of a variety of circumstances, not the least of which is also fixture congestion.

But what do you make of the Sounders depth at this point? Is it, you know, I think that's a common thing that we oftentimes debate within our own community is, you know, because I'll say something like, this is one of the deepest teams in the league.

And then as soon as they slip up, they go, oh, I thought we had the deepest team in the league. It's like, well, you know, deepest team in the league doesn't mean that our second choice 11 can, you know, can go toe to toe with the first choice 11 of one of the best teams in the league. Yeah, I really just think it's such a sturdy... 11 from week to week, generally speaking, and a sturdy roster in general.

And it was done in a way that's maybe more uncommon than it should be in MLS. And I recognize I'm tapping into a very well-established debate in standard hard country here about. Craig Weibel and what he's doing or not doing and the sort of enduring, I guess. organizational preference for steak over sizzle and that leads to I think a vague sense of dissatisfaction with like perceived lack of ambition or the lack of pizzazz that Hazers Ferreira, Paul Areola, Winter has compared to

you know, whatever. Brandon Vosquez. Yeah, or what the Sounders did, you know. five six seven eight ten years ago so um and i actually wrote um i had a pinch hit for doyle matt doyle a week or two ago on the um his his weekend rap con and uh it ended up that after the the seattle portland game and i ended up sort of doing a um

rhapsody and i basically said and i sort of figured this occurred to me as i'm writing the blurb right and it was wow like rusnak is doing for the modern sounders, what, what Nico Ladero did for, for the, can we say the salad days, maybe peak, peak sounders, peak MLS sounders. And yet it's just, it's more understated. And he didn't arrive. He arrived from Rail Salt Lake, not. Was it Boca Juniors? I think is where he came from. Where Ladero came from. Yeah. And...

And so I get that that's like, you know, and it was so dramatic, right? And of course, Ladera arriving in mid-season and going from out of the playoff places to winning MLS Cup. And like, there'll never be anything as... sexy as that and as dramatic as that I think it'll be difficult to top But I think you have the same level of player who's providing the same level of designated player quality and leadership and performance.

It's just that it doesn't feel the same way. And it's, you just, just, I guess my advice would be Be careful about chasing the dragon, right? And just remember that different moments and different times may call for different things and feel different.

Yeah, you know, I oftentimes, this is another thing that we sort of go back and forth on, and I'm not necessarily asking you to weigh in on this, but I do think it's a kind of a funny thought exercise is that, you know, the Sounders have... been one of the best teams essentially every year of their existence and you know you can sometimes it's one of the 10 best sometimes it's one of the two or three best

Very rarely have they been... The argument has always been they've never been the undisputed best team in the league, even when they won MLS Cup. There was other teams that were... that could make a viable case for being better teams either over the course of the season or even on a given day. And there's, there's some, I don't know, I guess there's some angst about never being the best. And I, when I asked Garth Lagoe about.

And he said, to some degree, that's kind of by design. The way that the Sounders build their roster is never going to be... where we push all our chips onto the table and say, look, if we're going to put the best possible team we can put out there, because the nature of MLS is that if you do that, there is a cost associated with it. And so like, we're seeing that cost sort of, you know, right now in LA where they went from being

Probably the best team in the league last year. I think you can make that credible argument, even though they weren't the Supporters' Shield winner. They were right up there at the top, and then they obviously just kind of cut through the playoffs pretty much. like a hot knife through butter.

And I do think that it's been overstated the degree to which MLS has sort of like crushed them this year in terms of like it's all MLS's fault that they aren't that they're as bad as they are but there is also some truth to the fact that or to the argument that MLS's rules do make it tough. to go all in and suffer no consequences because you inherently have to make choice. If you go all in, you're making some choices about what's going to happen to you in the future.

And with LA, you know, the bill came due almost immediately because, you know, they had whatever, we don't need to get too deep into this, but they, you know, they had a... a top U22 player who was aging out of that program. They had players who were due bonuses. They had players who were, you know, they were going to release the data essentially. agreed to re-sign at higher numbers. And then, of course, they had this catastrophic injury.

to Ricky Pooge, who now you're short a designated player. And I think we can go back and forth as to how much of that could they have mitigated with better decision-making. But... There's also truth to the idea that they had to make all these choices and the Sounders have kind of just... not had to put themselves in the situations where they don't have to make those choices. Yeah, so first of all, I mean, the Galaxy, yeah, they went all in. I think Koontz was honest about that.

at the time and now afterwards that there's risks associated with that. There's inherent risks associated with being a heliocentric team. A team is built around a very special rare skill set of a very special rare type of player that doesn't turn up. you know, for 30 times a year for every team to get to get one of their own and reiki push. And we saw that we've seen this with a lot of other teams too, right? I mean, the...

The Minnesota had this phase where they put all their chips in on a mercurial sort of do everything number 10 that was going to make everything work. And there's been other examples around the history of the league. There's just risk built into that. And I think Sounders have explicitly steered away from that sort of risk because they haven't. And when Doyle and I were talking... that weekend texting or Skype or slacking or whatever.

We were just marveling at that pass that Christian Roldan played to set up the goal against Portland. Just like insane 70-yard through ball that leads to a beautiful re-sign goal. And it was like... I just said, you know, they've just got a bunch of just really good MLS guys that they've just stockpiled up there. And he said, yeah, it's the weakest link theory, right? And that's, you know, the Galaxy cannot do that. You cannot have a backup to Ricky Push.

We all suspected that, and the reality has come to pass that you cannot, over an extended period of the greater part of a season, it looks like it's going to be. be anything close to what you are without this player that you are with him and

And there's just risk built into that. And I'm going to push back a little bit because I'm old. And so I remember that the Sounders have been the best team in this league. The Sounders have won a supporter shield. In fact, they won a supporter shield US Open Cup double. a little over 10 years ago. That's true. And everybody was pissed off at the end of the season. Right. No, I agree. I agree. And you can't. Galaxy won MOS Cup.

So if you want to win MLS Cup... I agree, but the argument that year would have been, well, the Galaxy were only one point worse than the Sounders, so the Sounders were really better than the Galaxy that year. You get a trophy for being better. Yes, they were better. I agree. Look, I'm just giving you the narrative story out there. But I agree. No, you make a fair point. There was a run, and they were in that.

you know, along the same argument, they were sort of built around two of these type of players that year. You know, they were built around Dempsey and Obafany Martins, who at the time could... credibly stake claim to being two of the best players in the entire league. But you bring up Albert Rusnak, and we might as well talk about this a little bit more. He had another goal this week. He now has seven goals, three assists.

I went and looked this up because I was curious because Someone had insisted that he's not a top 30 player in the league, and I thought... That doesn't seem right to me. And so I kind of looked up the stats, and he's top 10 in MLM. He's actually the eighth best player in terms of both non-penalty goals plus assists and... Overall goals plus assists. Meaning the penalties don't end up making a difference where he sits in these standings over the last two seasons. He has been, I think...

Last year, he was never really mentioned among the MVP contenders, I think, in part because there were just some... outrageous talents that were having amazing seasons last year. So I'm not sitting here saying he should have been considered for MVP last year, but... Right now it does feel like he's sort of putting together an MVP caliber type season. You know, this week he only had the, it was only a penalty that he had this week, but.

He, again, was in the middle of a bunch of really good chances, and he just seems to be playing with an ease and a calmness and a confidence that is really maybe even better than what we saw from him at his best last week. Yeah, and I can't remember if it was my best 11 last year or the year before, and I should really be able to remember more clearly, but I remember going through this process, and I actually do put in thought into my best 11. Too much thought, of course, and too much time.

But I do try to make at least a nod to being a functional team. And then the league's designations of players' positions sometimes make it a little harder. And I remember being stuck where I had too many attackers or something, and I had to adjust my initial 11. And when I went back through it a few times, I ended up that I had Brewstack in it. And I was sort of like, okay, wait, is there someone...

It was like, wait, is there someone better than him that he's taking a spot of? And that's sort of the more I looked at it and I, you know, sifted through the numbers and stuff and looked at the team performances and it's like. No, I mean, really, this is, I got here backwards, but like.

This isn't absolutely a best 11 player. Where is that team, that consistently chronically competitive team without him? And I just don't, again, you can say that they have some credible alternatives if he's out for a length of time or whatever, but. I just don't think that they get...

close to their ceiling or play the way they want to play, the way that Brian Spencer wants them to play on a week-to-week basis if you don't have him. And I don't think he's a very easy person to replace either in the domestic or international market. Yeah, and that was another funny thing this offseason that, you know, going back to the whole Craig Weibel discussion was the Sounders sort of made a decision that we wanted Rusnak back.

And we're willing to spend if we would love to get them for less than a DP salary, but we also understand that. he might demand a DP salary and we would be crazy to act as if he doesn't deserve that. And as is his right, he was like, well, this is what I'm worth. Why would I take less than I'm worth? I want the money. And to his credit, he's absolutely... proving that he is at least worth that, if not maybe even more in terms of raw money, but he's absolutely worth a DP spot.

And he is, you know, he's performing like it. I think I also appreciate that he has this sort of vibe about him that is just very... It's a quiet confidence. He's willing to speak his mind, but he's not boastful. Which also kind of made his goal celebration in this game funnier because it was a penalty in May.

And he rips his shirt off, he balls it up, and he throws it into the crowd, which I don't think I have ever seen. I'm not sure I've ever seen a player actually throw his jersey into the stands. while the game is very much still being contested. And to his credit, Alex Roldan realized, oh, he's going to need that. And so he goes back into the stands. He asks the fan for the jersey back.

The fan gives him the jersey, and we all go on. And as it turns out, I guess the Sounders had a backup plan. If he had to wear a blank jersey, he would have worn a blank jersey. But he didn't have another. And it's just a very funny situation. And I will note. Best as we can tell. Albert after the game went and then gave those.

the fan the jersey back so it all worked out in the end but um we sort of asked him like what was going on with you there and he's just like i was just so frustrated the game wasn't going how i wanted it to go and all the these and it's like i didn't even realize that was inside of you But it was kind of good to see, in a weird way, good to see that he had that level, he had that sort of intensity ready to go, ready to fire when it needed to be mined.

This is one of the things that I think keeps me in love with the game too, and trying to talk about it and write about it in a reasonably compelling way, which is that... fundamentally these are human beings are not widgets like they're not um stats packages like they can change and evolve and grow and you never quite know what you're going to get and

He happened to have a really good year and a contract year. And if there was, there may have been, I think, maybe a little bit of a perception of him because I think he did something similar at RSL. Where it's like, okay, maybe this guy's got the NBA syndrome where he has his best year on a contract year. Because he mentioned that last week. He actually

He mentioned that that was a narrative. It was like, I don't remember exactly how it came up, but someone, he said, I don't know, there was this narrative out there that I only care about performing when I'm in a contract year, but... where that came from. But anyway, go ahead.

Yeah, I mean, but, you know, on the one hand, get the bag, right? Like you do, but there is this sort of, in sports in general, there's this perceived... phenomenon on some psychological level and it sure seems like he's either outgrown it or it wasn't there in the first place or there was mitigating circumstances because

He's producing at a really high level consistently. You know that you're not going to get the exact same level from any player every single week. They're not always going to be at their peak. it's as close as they can get, you know, that's what, that's what separates the good from the great. And I, I, I think he's there and I just, I just do it again. I know.

The Sounders probably have some games where they've dropped points and they should have won a game like that maybe by a safer margin. But the amount of control this team exerts in most of their games on a week-to-week basis is the kind of... educated eye test maybe I think that suggests that Um, that they're going to be in the running when it's business time because

They are able to, and they have different clubs in the bag, right? But I just, I like the way they go about things and the experience and the organizational memory and all these factors that. lead you to trust that a team is going to produce when it really matters and going to be in there in the fall when the games really start to pick up in intensity. And I think we'll see them there again.

Yeah, you know, you go back to just to kind of piggyback on what you said about their sort of dominance in week to week. Another stat I keep track of is field tilt, which for people who don't know, it's essentially measuring the final third entries on each team and which team is spending more time than the other.

teams you know uh half really or they're attacking third i believe specifically and the sounders have only had less than 60 percent uh like four times and only less than 50 percent twice And that's pretty, it's a pretty, they average 62% fuel till they are. You know, they're winning the XG battle almost every week. You know, there's a kind of another stat kind of that, you know, people can make up what they will called expected points.

And they sort of, and essentially what it does is it takes all the chances that each team created. It plays a thousand, uh, a thousand simulated games and it kind of spits out a a number of points you would expect each team to get and a team never ends up with three and it almost never ends up with zero as a result of this thousand you know um i think it's like a monte carlo style simulation and the Sounders are almost they're over a point and a half almost every game which means that

They're at least expecting to get a result, essentially. They've only been under one point, I believe, twice all year. They're probably the LAFC game where they got blown out, and then I believe the San Diego. Actually, it was the Salt Lake game, I guess, was the other one where they were below one. But anyway, yeah, it's been a really consistent season, I think, I guess is the case that we're making here.

And that's despite one of their biggest offseason acquisitions, Paul Areola going down with an injury very early in the season. And he was looking like he was going to be a real, you know, it wasn't necessarily billed as a huge move in the offseason, but once the season started, it was pretty obvious that he was probably the... the bigger of the two acquisitions they had made in the offseason from Dallas. And instead of sort of like...

I mean, they've essentially were able to replace him with Ryan Kent. And as it is, you have a Ryan Kent feature coming out. Ryan Kent has been, I think, a very impressive player through his first seven games that he's played for the Sounders. He has essentially established himself as a starter at this point. when he's at his best, he is, he has a seemingly almost unplayable type of winger. Like he,

When he is on, he is making moves. He is beating opponents off the dribble. He's seeing passes that really, like... No hyperbole. Other players just do not see a lot of the passes that he's been making so far. He almost had another one this week. when he set up Georgie Manungu on a play that I will say was correctly ruled offside, but it was a great pass nonetheless.

Anyway, you had a chance to actually sit down with him and have a one-on-one conversation, which I'm a little jealous of. I haven't actually had a chance to do the one-on-one thing with him yet. What did you make of Ryan? Yeah, well, I hope I have a good story for Sounders fans to read in a couple of days. We chatted for about half an hour earlier today. I come away very impressed and sort of intrigued. And again, I don't think there's a lot of use in directly comparing him to Paul Arreola.

it's pretty incredible that you have at least a push and possibly an upgrade. in a in a in just what we talk about in general terms about the winger position after having to scramble right to to to compensate for a very early um very um painful and um and brutal uh season ending injury for for paul and it's um it turns out it's uh there's there's a little bit of uh an inside connection here because i was you know he ryan himself said

He said, I think people will be surprised at some of the clubs that were reaching out because he had gone to, first of all, we're talking about a Liverpool wunderkind here. The guy, if you go back and Google him. How old was he when he started at Liverpool? Age seven. This is a guy who was in the Liverpool system from seven to, I believe it was 18 or thereabouts.

and was a Klopp favorite. It appears that Jurgen Klopp and Steven Gerrard as well was He moved on to Rangers eventually and was playing under Gerard. was well-liked by both those managers and I think was really close, but for maybe a poorly timed injury or two and just a ferociously competitive squad in an elite club, not quite getting his chance at Liverpool. but also wanted to play regularly and moved on by his own choice to go somewhere.

in Rangers where he could play and play in big games and play in Europe and so forth. and seemed to be, he was an England Youth International and really a star on the rise, and then ends up making a move to Turkey that most definitely did not work out for him, that turned into a nightmare. rather quickly left him sideline and training on his own for long periods, not playing first team matches for long periods.

and had his contract mutually voided and torn up in, I believe it was October of last year. But part of the terms of this was that he had to wait until the next transfer window. to make a move, and he said he turned down primarily clubs. I didn't know that he actually had to, that he was forced to sit out for part of that time. And granted, I'm just going on the conversation we had, and I haven't dug into the minutiae of the deal or whatnot, but...

He had some time to pick his next move, and he had clubs playing in European and UEFA-level competitions. He had Premier League clubs that were interested. He said that this opportunity really called him. He'd been to the U.S. a few times on preseason tours and on holidays.

actually talked about MLS with Stevie Gerard, which is kind of, I had to ask, like, how did that happen? But it just turned out, you know, just kind of a mentorship thing where he was having discussions about life and soccer and his career with Gerard. Jaron talked about his time and said, you've got to go do this. You know, you've got to experience this, which is somewhat interesting, right? Because you can very easily imagine.

Gerard saying something very different because he did not have the best of times in MLS strictly individual performance level but apparently it stuck with him enough in a positive way for him to speak positively in that way and then As it so often does with so many things sounders, Andy Rose enters the picture because he knew Andy Rose from their time together at Coventry City many, many moons ago. He's had a lone stint, I believe, when he was at Liverpool at Coventry.

And so he had someone that he knew and trusted that could give him the rundown on the club and what things are like and the culture. And so that was what he picked. a pretty great mid-season reinforcement and there's you know I kind of thought coming into it I thought maybe there must have been some element of utility to this for both sides but it certainly looks like he had options and wanted to try this and he seems very uh

very settled and intrigued by life in Seattle and life in MLS in general. And he's an interesting guy because he looks and in some ways on the pitch acts, looks like a sort of a prototypical English winger. But he doesn't think like one, and he's made choices to be different and to get out of the country.

get away from home and have different experiences and different adventures in his life and his career. And I think that speaks well of him and bodes well for his sounder's future as well as this very promising start he's gotten off to.

A lot of people, I think, have sort of assumed that this was sort of a last chance saloon type situation where he was down on his luck and he just needed someone to make an offer but that doesn't really seem to there's no evidence that that's actually no actual other than circumstantial evidence there's no

No one on any side is saying this. You can watch him play, and it doesn't make any sense that this is a guy who just needed someone to give him a chance. It seems to be, and he said this, to us when we have talked to him is that he just needed some place that he wanted to

like enjoy his football again that he wanted to feel unburdened by the expectations that have frankly carried i think this happens a lot in english football especially when you become a kind of wonderkin and you are identified at a young age That- that- It's very helpful obviously early on in your career.

And then almost as quickly as it's helpful, it can become sort of a negative where you're not living up to the expectation. And now all of a sudden you're this, you know, even if you are a good player, you're maybe not meeting the level of expectation that others might have for you.

And it starts to become sort of a yoke that hangs around a player's net, a weight that they're carrying from one place to the next. And it seems like that was kind of behind what he wanted to do when he went to Turkey, which was to kind of get out of that particular... uh maybe that that particular light and go somewhere else and instead it became even worse in some ways because he wasn't

getting the minutes that he was hoping. I think he had some injury issues there as well, but he definitely wasn't seeing eye to eye with management, and he really fell out of favor, and it became kind of an ugly situation.

But what I appreciated about him is that he does seem really genuine in the idea that he just wants to sort of... play like he just wants to have fun like he just wants to and so nothing about him being here strikes me as look I'm just I just need some place to get my career back on on track and then I'm gonna get out of here as soon as I can Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. And maybe he'll be in a fundamentally different negotiating position in a few months or a year's end.

But he did say also that Club World Cup is a factor here. And while I know many listeners and probably you and I as well have a fairly... checkered outlook on this tournament. It is still a massive event that puts every participating club in a different sort of spotlight. It certainly seems to have played a role in his decision to come to Seattle because he knew he'd get this experience.

It's not just, it's a big stage upon which individuals can show themselves, organizations can show themselves and introduce themselves to the world and to new audiences. And you get to play against players you may never otherwise. go up against in person in a competitive match. So I think, you know, as much as easy as it's been to dog on that, you know, it certainly seems to have at least been one of several recruiting factors in this one, which is kind of fun.

Yeah, it's been kind of a neat thing. And I also just appreciate he has a personality that doesn't strike me as the typical Englishman. We have not had a ton of...

typical English player. Andy Rose is one of the more prominent Englishmen who have played here and even Andy Rose is not a typical Englishman in part because he went to college in the United States and he is almost as much American at this point as he is English in terms of his sort of general outlook but that little connection there did, it was part of what I found interesting about that connection is that

Their time at Coventry did not actually overlap that much. I don't know that they actually played in a game together, but clearly they had some level of connection because Andy wasn't just a nameless, faceless former teammate. He was apparently someone who... Kent felt comfortable taking some level of feedback from in terms of like vouching for the sounders of nothing, if nothing else. Yeah, which is, again, you never know, right?

The football world can be big and global and huge, and it can also feel like a small neighborhood in some ways with gossip and rumors and personal networking is so important. I thought some of the most striking stuff that Kent said was about He sounds very happy here because I think he feels that the relationships and the interactions he's had with everyone at the club are just... E aí more straightforward and sincere than what he dealt with in Turkey. And I think he was at a big club in Turkey.

But things turn really quickly. He was made to train on his own, and at some point when things went bad, there was significant organizational. heft was thrown into sort of making him feel unwelcome and the political aspects of a big club really grated on him and I think we can say from afar like you know became this

this cul-de-sac in his career that he had to navigate his way out of. So I'm sure there's a number of factors that have some element of fortune to them for him to wind up here. But at this point now, I mean, it just looks like a great, a really great signing because it's... It's all the things we talked about and then his particular...

Toolkit really seems to be well adapted or well suited to MLS and I think it's the type of player that maybe the sounders seem needed in terms of Just that, the directness as well as the skill that he has and the ability to... to execute in a physically powerful way and in a repeatable way. And then it seems like he's got the durability to deal with turf and long travel and all these other uniquely MLS challenges.

Did you talk to him about the travel situation? He had, I guess, mentioned after the Portland game that he had never, like, that week... The game that ended in Portland was his third road game that week. He had traveled, I don't know, something like 5,600 miles all in, and he had mentioned how he had never been anything like that.

I went and looked it up. He had never taken a road trip that was like even half that long in his entire career. And that's playing in European competition and everything else. I do sometimes think that the travel element of MLS is sometimes you can tell people, like, no, these are long trips. And then there's the reality of that. It's like, no, like every game is like playing European competition. Every road game is like playing in Europe. Yeah, I didn't get deep into this, but it is, it's...

It's such a learning curve and it's a physiological and psychological. line item that some players can deal with, some can't, but you've got to be able to roll off a plane and get yourself together to play at a high level in a way that's I mean, maybe they'd have to do that in Russia too, maybe Brazil. There's just not that many places that ask this of you. But I think...

The most successful players, and he seems to have this sense of intrigue and wonder at it rather than annoyance, which again is not traditionally English, right? Because some guys just can't get their head around. this completely different way of doing things that probably seems ludicrous if you come from a sort of, if you have a Eurocentrism or an Anglo-Centrism to you, whether explicit or implicit.

you know, it's going to be harder to get your head around it. But if you look at it as like, and he seems like a guy who's into, American culture in general. He was wearing a Yankees hat when we talked. Yeah, that seems to be a staple for him. We got to work with him. Yeah, exactly. But that helps too, right? Because at the end of the day...

If you have an interest in sort of this, whatever this next city that you touched on. The American project, as they say. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have to love that part because if you like to travel, this might be the league for you. Yeah, exactly. Well, we're going to take a break. We're going to come back and do a little bit bigger of a picture. We are going to get into some of the Center's upcoming schedule and sort of the Western Conference in general. But you're listening to Nos Adientes.

Thank you for listening to the Sound at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes No Sanientes, Lobbing Scorchers, and the Cooler Guild. We've been independent since August of 2023, but need your support to make sure... Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible by your continued support. Memberships start as low as $25 a year, which not only helps make podcasts like this one happen, but also gets you access to everything we produce.

If you're able to support us at higher levels, starting at $75 a year, you gain access to a host of other perks, most notably entry into our members only discord for the smartest Thanks for listening. Welcome back to Nos Adientes. So we are going to zoom out a little bit more and talk about some of the upcoming opponents that the Sounders have, some of the Western Conference.

at large so first up is san diego fc this is a game that is being played for some reason at 5 30 p.m on a wednesday this is as far as i know the first time the centers have ever kicked off a midweek game at home before seven o'clock Apparently on purpose. I've done some investigation into this. I'm fascinated by it. This might be kind of an interesting little... We see this in baseball all the time where they play afternoon games in the middle of the week. Usually for travel reasons, but...

I don't know, you've been to many... This isn't a Cascadia bank holiday? There's not some local holiday up there you guys have? No? It's very strange. Yeah, exactly. That would be funny if it was sort of like a flag day or whatever. What's the thing in Boston that they do that no one else will write? Oh, yeah, I'm blanking on it now, but I do remember there was this.

Yeah, yeah, that sounds right. I mean, in D.C., Juneteenth, which is coming up, is a big day. It's like a state, it's a district holiday. That would be a fun one. Although I remember also there was this infamous experiment that the Red Bulls did. I think we're going back a decade or so where in mid summer, June or July, they did a camp day. So they had like, it was a Wednesday game that kicked off at like one o'clock or something. And it was like, The stadium was like all soccer camps.

Just like children, just a children's day at this point. They're all there as part of this Red Bull soccer camp week or whatever. And they just, like, the players, of course, were, I think, somewhat annoyed to be playing under the daytime sun. But, you know, it's possible that you could argue they got a better crowd than they would have gotten at 7.30 on Wednesday. There's not a lot of examples of full Red Bull Arena, unfortunately.

Yes, but fans and pundits tend to take a dim view of these sort of things. But I hope that you guys can dig up a little bit of a backstory because there has to be one. There has to be a lot. I mean, yeah. And I think my understanding, one theory I've heard posited by people who are not part of the ticketing office, but who are involved in the Sounders.

They think it might just be a... People said they wanted us to try some different stuff. This is one of those experiments, and it's like a happy hour type of deal where it's like, hey, just get right off of work and come in. I don't know. We'll see if it works. I do feel like maybe there was a Champions League game or something that kicked off pretty early, too.

But we're getting a little far afield at this point of what I was talking about, which was... I hope there's drink specials. Go get day drunk before the sun goes down, right? Exactly. I would have loved it. If I was not covering this game, I would have been really tempted to use this as an opportunity to go to the game with a...

To go to the game when I wouldn't normally be able to go because I'd have to put my kids to bed. And you can be home by 9 o'clock on a game like this. I think that's pretty sweet on a weekday. Neither here nor there. San Diego FC. is coming to town. They thumped the Sounders 3-0 in the first meeting. They are, I think we can call them the surprise of the season, can't we? I know that pundits were sort of split on how likely they were, but I don't know that anyone really saw.

I mean, they've been up in the top few of the West almost all season. They are currently second in the West. And they're doing it with a style and a confidence that even... I think even at their best St. Louis city, when they were on that expansion year, when they won the West, I don't think they ever look. quite this put together. When LAFC went on their run in 2017, maybe that's the most comparable thing, but this just feels... a little different in part because

They aren't doing it with all these superstars. Everyone that's there, other than maybe Chucky Lozano, was very specifically picked for the role they needed them to play within this larger system. And it's working really well for us. Yeah, and we have to say, too, this is an organization that plans to be sort of a kids' FC in the long run, right? They're spending...

I don't know how it compares to what I just wrote a piece about Philly's big new academy infrastructure, you know, upgrades. They spent something like 50. 55 million or more on centralizing their whole campus, like the whole academy operations school.

multiple training fields, indoor stuff is all at Subaru Park now on the riverside there. And I think San Diego probably, my guess is they're spending even more. A big part of it is they didn't have to build their own stadium, right? They're sharing Snapdragon, which is already there. But they're spending big on building a residential academy facility and they want to grow their own. They want to recruit.

Mexican and U.S. kids from both sides of the border. They want to bring in kids from elsewhere in the Right to Dream Network. So this is going to be an academy-centered club eventually. So I was thinking that there probably just would be an awkward...

learning curve until they got there. But they've made a mockery of that. And I think there was a lot of interest about how this team was going to look, but I don't think there was very high expectations for results. And granted, we're still early in the expansion. you know, lifespan in the sense that there will be a wall and they hit a little bit of a wall, I guess it was in April, but they sort of recovered from that.

And again, what it comes down to is touching in on, you know, the Sounders theme from earlier is control. Like they're controlling games. They're not, you know, there was a chaotic element to the press that, that St. Louis was just ambushing teams with. It worked very well, but it ultimately was not sustainable. I mean, they sort of tailed off in the fall and then cratered in the postseason that first year and have been trying to get back to that level ever since.

And with San Diego, they're doing stuff at a really high level in terms of patterns of play. I'm Joe Lowry over at Backheeled. We picked out a moment from one of their goals over the weekend, and we're talking about how, you know, one of the, I think, their number six, Virtskov.

rotates into basically the striker's position to play the pass that leads to their goal to Luca De La Torre's goal and it's like to have the collective understanding, right, for him to recognize that and for everyone else to play off it that quickly in the run of play. This is impressive, right? Especially when you compare it to The Norman LLS ride into this league is getting a lot more tactical. There's a ton of high-level ideas and players and coaches nowadays.

It's vastly improved over the last decade, but it's still rare to see a team do what they're doing week in, week out and have the composure and the control. I mean, there's a little bit of Columbus crew here. There's a little bit of... You could argue maybe there's some Seattle or LA Galaxy, you know, at their peak kind of levels of understanding and meshing the talent. But it's amazing. And I interviewed Anders Dreyer.

a little while back for a feature story. And he's been a big part of this. I think, you know, they've only got two DPs, they're on the two floor model. And he and Chucky are these sort of bookend wingers who both are inverted and the idea is for them to combine with each other and understand each other well and then have runners around them and then also have the nine where they can all interpret stuff together.

And it's considering that there's a pretty disparate group, right? You've got this Danish influence from Nordsjalen, the club that they're affiliated with in Denmark. And then you have these kind of kids that they've accumulated from all over MLS and beyond.

Chucky is a Mexican international but also has a lot of European pedigree and apparently his English is good because Dreyer said he hasn't had to learn much much spanish you know it's like they're communicating english and they're they're on the same page much earlier than i expected Yeah, they are, again, it's not just the results that are so impressive. Those results are impressive, but it's the way that they're getting them.

But one thing they haven't really had, you know, I'm looking at their schedule right now, and... There's a few tests that they haven't quite passed yet. And it should be said, they've so far basically passed every test that you can throw their way. But one of the tests that they haven't really had to do is they haven't had to play on the road on short rest yet. So this will be the first time that they've played on the road on short rest. They also haven't really, I don't know if they have a...

a truly signature win on the road yet. They, they did beat RSL or in the season, which let's be honest is something the Sounders have not done. in a long, long time. So I don't want to undersell the value of a road win against RSL, but most of their road wins have been against lower table teams. So this is a big test for the sounders also.

It's also a big test for San Diego. Are these legitimate tests, I guess I'm asking you, or are these things that they'll sort of need to check off to be considered elite, or have they already sort of checked that box? I think the sample size is big enough now, or 15 games in, that we can say that they've...

They're not a flash in the pan, but things get real. We just have Labor Day weekend. Things are about to get real for everyone, especially if you're a Western team and you have to go to Texas and you have to start dealing with it. with altitude and stuff like that. So they're at Seattle. They're home against Austin. Then they got to go to Minnesota, Vancouver, and Dallas in quick succession this coming month.

So, you know, we know Minnesota are quite good, especially at home. We know Vancouver are an absolute wagon this year. Going to Frisco on June 28th, it's going to be a juicy one there. And that's a different kind of challenge. There's a different sort of mental demand that those 100 degree days in Dallas as a native Texan, I can attest. And then the summertime grind kicks in where there's a lot of matches. There's going to be international call-ups.

You're going to have to be, I think, maybe a little more pragmatic at times. It's not that I don't think they can do that. I give credit, actually, for how good they've been in transition. I mean, they have absolutely murdered some teams in transition, so they know how to counterbalance. they killed, I mean, in the first meeting,

Two of their three goals came out of transition moments and not in, you know, it was funny. The narrative in that game was, oh, the Sounders press didn't work and they got pressed into submission by San Diego. But if you actually go about and look at the. the main moments of that game. It was just San Diego going from defense to attack in a, in a, in a snap and they did it, you know, a lot. It wasn't just the two goals that they got. They actually were tearing the Sounders up.

on the counterattack. But go on, I'm sorry, I interjected there. Yeah, no, no worries. But the other thing that I think matters a lot is, again, on a level, impressive considering this is his first

This is his first year as a head coach of a first team. Mikey Varas seems to have built a pretty good collective. They've got a belief in it. Dreyer talked about... the attraction that he had towards this, you know, being part of an expansion project and being the first for everything, and how much Varus kind of drives that home, this idea that...

Everything we're doing, like we're setting the culture for the future. We're building something that's going to live on after us. And we're the ones that are doing it. And I think there's something. That's something fairly unique to MLS or definitely to North American.

soccer in general that i think is very interesting maybe take take for granted a little bit some of that stuff just when we're immersed in the league and we're locals because They really feel a sense of pride, I think, and there's something very special about being the first to do it.

And so, you know, when you look, I think Matt Doyle posted the video of Chucky Lozano absolutely busting his ass on a 70-yard recovery run the other day. I think it was when he closed down, it was in the Galaxy game. I think he may have closed down Diego Fagundes to snuff out a transition on a yellow card, run 70 yards at a full sprint, most of it, and then get stuck in.

to get the turnover and get the ball going back the other way. You know, when you have a high paid, high visibility, star designated player doing that it just says a lot and it really does trickle down so again this is going to be hard to sustain there are there are walls i think waiting for them but man they're just so far ahead of the curve right now Yeah, they really are. And it is impressive to see. Varus has...

He's gotten a lot of praise from Brian Schmetzer. The Sounders kind of had some relationship with him because he was the coach of the... the U-20s, I believe, during the World Cup qualification process where Obed Vargas was getting called in and Reid Baker Whiting was sort of involved in that. cohort of players and whatnot. So it's been kind of an interesting...

It's just been very interesting to watch from a distance and very impressive. And then after that, the Sounders play the next three. So the Sounders... Next three games are against the top three teams in the West. It goes San Diego, then home against Minnesota, and then on the road against Vancouver, and then they go into the Club World Cup. Minnesota has been another team who...

I mean, all these three of these teams really have been pretty big surprises, I think. Minnesota, another team who... I think... Most would have said or on the verge of doing something. good but not necessarily special and here they are sitting you know almost halfway through the season right there at the top of the the western conference and doing it in a way that is

Interesting, I think, is maybe the best way of putting it. This is a team that doesn't really want the ball, but they are leaning into the fact that they have a lot of players who are good in transition, and they are just gashing teams on.

on the counter and they, and they have a pretty aggressive defense. I think it's maybe been, there's maybe a little bit of a misperception that they're sort of a bunker encounter team, but it's not so much a bunker encounter. They are, you know, they're, they're a pretty aggressive defensive team. But the degree to which they don't want the ball is kind of, it's an interesting contrast with San Diego, who really does want the ball a lot. Yeah, and...

I think they know. Doyle has banged the drum about this. There is still a limitation here that the teams generally win things in this league. have to have another club in the bag. There has to be some way that you can get your foot on the ball and, and control things in a different way, but they just, they haven't had to. And, and, you know, I, I watched and covered and wrote about there.

ambush of Inner Miami, which was possibly kind of like a... like dictionary definition demonstration of the strengths of the system where I think they finished the game It may have been less than 30% possession, but more expected goals. They just trounced Miami. They exploited all the weaknesses. Miami had tons of ball. They were slip-shotted. 27% possession, by the way. They had 27% possession in that game, and they more than doubled Miami's XG.

Right. With a long throw with set pieces. And, you know, it was just it was amazing. I mean, it was like it was it was it was.

like, raw, just incredible MLS-ness because, like, the scale of the humbling was so strong and the collective satisfaction that Minnesota with, like, I think they've really, I think that the... I know a lot of the fans out there would like to see a little bit more proactive soccer at times, but they're just like, there's such a clear sense of self where that club connects into the identity of the community.

and they've got a great supporter culture, and they were just enjoying the hell out of this disassembling of Messi's Miami. But even at that, after that, Michael Boxall, who's an incredible quote, as well as being a very dependable center back and a set piece threat. He said, look, I get I get pissed off.

When we can't connect three or four passes to get out of our own end, we know we can do some things different. We know we can be better with the ball. But I think they've really honed their ability to... get forward quickly to get out of their own end, like field tilt. is they can just control field tilt in such a fundamentally different way than let's say the sound or zoom because with that usually it's whether it's

kind of a 3-4-2-1 or a 3-5-2 kind of look. They have different kind of interpretations, but generally they have two frontrunners, and Oluwache in particular is just An outstanding player in transition. I mean, he can get on the end of things. He also sets things up. He's great with his back to goal. They're just so clever at being direct in a precise way.

calculated way. This is not necessarily root one, although you will see the root one from them. Sometimes they are surgically precise often in how they get. from defense into attack and it requires I think a lot of collective organization and mental acuity and mental focus on the part of the opposition to understand what's happening and to be able to deal with it in time.

Yeah, they it is sort of an impressive thing that they're doing. I've talked to Doyle about this on the show a few times. And one of the things that I think is fascinating, though, is. Going back through the history of, we have data on possession that goes back to about 2015. And there is no examples of teams that have had less than 44% possession. And I mean...

Literally no examples of teams that have averaged something like, maybe it's 43%, but it's low 40s, but over 40, right? And this is bad teams, this is good teams, this is just across the board. Right now, Minnesota is averaging like 38%. They're on pace to have one of the just by a large margin. the fewest number of completed essentially what that means they've just they don't complete a lot of passes

And they're going to complete something like 60 fewer passes per game than the next least team in MLS, at least from the 10 years of data or so that we have. And I mean, I guess it's sustainable on some level because... They've been doing it now for almost half of a season, but there does... it does seem like they're playing with fire a little bit and that at some point, even the best counterattacking teams need to be able to hold the ball a little bit. You know, this last week, they...

They got 54% possession, which was the season high for them. It was a 1-1 tie against Austin. And I don't know, I don't know that the Sounders are going to change their approach, but it is a fast, I mean, it's just, I don't even know if there's anything to say. It's just a fascinating approach. And it's sort of like... Just, you know, take this concept to its logical conclusion and see what it looks like. And, you know, it'll be interesting to see how it goes.

I mean, this is a league where scouting always sort of pulls you back, right? Teams get found out. Right. You do something well enough for long enough that there's a data set that can be analyzed and broken down. your opponents will eventually find the cracks and exploit them. They haven't really been pushed out of their comfort zone yet, and they may still.

But when you're this good at this sort of certain facet of the game, I think it makes you an inherently dangerous tournament team and the playoffs are a tournament. And I would not be the least bit surprised if they dip back towards the mean for substantial periods of the next. you know, six months or whatever it is, five months, but then still can have this club in their bag for a win.

You know, the games are played in 90 minute increments and everything that's happened up till then is just the prelude, right? And I would be very leery of having to deal with that team in a one game situation or a three game situation where... They can absorb pressure so comfortably for so long.

Yeah, well, the last team I wanted to pick your brain about is the Vancouver Whitecaps, who are frankly one of the, maybe the most fascinating team to be talking about right now. They're going to be playing in the CONCACAF Champions Cup. final on sunday uh so that i i guess that is is that the yeah that that'll be the last game that they have played when they face the sounders is the concacaf champions cup uh they do get you know that's good for them they get a whole week off

regardless of what happens in that game. So that's probably... is good for them. I don't think... There's not a Canadian... It's crazy that they're playing Minnesota tomorrow at midweek, which is like... That's a wild scheduling thing considering the league as often... helped out the deep runs that teams have made in CCC or CCL.

And I think that's one of the most fascinating things about this run that they're on is that when the Sounders went on their CONCACAF Champions League run, I don't know if you know this, but the Sounders are actually the only MLS team to have won that title. uh in the modern era of the tournament it's not no one talks about it but uh we do like to remind people

The Sounders got a lot of help scheduling-wise in that tournament. They moved a bunch of games so that they didn't have to do what Vancouver is doing right now, which is especially... It is almost comical that MLS did not move this game for Vancouver. And then... They're going to be missing nine players for international duty when they face the Sounders. So it's probably not going to be the best test.

That said, let's talk a little bit about what they've managed to accomplish this year. They have gone through basically the most difficult path they could possibly go through to get to this point. They have beat multiple... Mexican team, our League at Mechies teams. They beat Inter-Miami, who of course was, you know, one of the most on paper talented MLS teams in league history who is coming off a record-breaking supporter shield run.

so they have been done no favors from scheduling they've been done no favors in terms of luck of the draw they have all along maintained a supporter shield pace in the league which again basically unprecedented. This is not like... Even for, you know, say what you will, but the Sounders had a great run, I think.

Kidding aside, I think sometimes we undersell what the Sounders had to do, but they were not on a supportership. They certainly were not on a supportership. I believe they were actually off to kind of a rough start in the MLS regular season. And then on top of that... They've also been playing Canadian championship games. They're on pace to play something like 55 games, I believe, before...

They're even, you know, before we, it's assuming they don't even, or they're not playing, they're not even playing in Leagues Cup. And that's before you count playoff games. This is an outrageous amount of mileage they're putting on, an outrageous amount of minutes there. They're playing an almost unprecedented level of competition. And yet, talk about tests. They are passing every test with...

Not just flying, I mean they are acing every test that gets thrown their way. All the while, they lost their big designated player acquisition. before the season even started. And, you know, so all Brian White did is rip off the Clark Clank glasses and show up. opposite to me. Yeah, they lost one DP in the winter, and then they've had... They've been absent most of the season. And we were hoping that maybe he'd be fit enough to at least play a role.

in the final year on, you know, cause he's, he's reached the end of the slated projected recovery time for the knee injury, but. I don't know whether they're just keeping things hush-hush or if he just isn't quite there yet. There's been very little coming out. If he's training, they're keeping it under wraps. Remains to be seen, but probably not much, if anything, from Ryan Gould. And they're going to have to reach the final, beat the final boss in Cruz Azul on Sunday without.

Sebastian Berhalter has been their breakout, one of many, but probably the first among the breakouts, individual stories. I've never seen anything like it. It's, uh, it's incredible. And this, and we have to remember, this is a team that was first year. Like on top of everything else, they have a coach who has never been in MLS.

Never been in North America. He had lived in Toronto a bit while his wife was doing oncology. She's an oncologist, if I'm remembering correctly. Jasper Sorensen's wife. So he knew a little bit about North American culture and had lived here. briefly, but I've never worked here before. It's It's truly remarkable. And then everything we're talking about, it is eclipsed. And then someone, you actually watch the games.

They're digging deep. They're overcoming the stuff that no MLS team has ever done. I mean, we saw the Sounders produce some real magic in that 22. CCL run that they were getting absolutely you know, either demolished or just trading water at best in the league, right? And they eventually didn't make the playoffs and granted, like, it's the only time that it's happened in their MLS existence. It's okay. It's still worth it. You still take that deal every time. I get all that.

But for the Whitecaps to be on a supporter shield pace, I mean, no one saw that coming, let alone doing it while making a CCC run. without so many of the key players, with such an incredibly aesthetically pleasing, assertive, proactive game model where they're out-possessing, out-passing. some of the best teams on the continent.

It's just amazing. And again, you mentioned the travel. Every year, whitecaps are always first in terms of the travel miles in MLS just because of their geographic location. And then you look at going, they've gone to Costa Rica, they've gone to Mexico twice, and CCC, they've had to go to Miami, which is like... The longest place you can go in MLS. It's just incredible. And I was told today that...

The nine international call-ups are going to leave straight from Mexico. So yes, a highly underhanded group. uh, to, uh, to, to, that the Sounders get to play. So, but like they came back from, I think it was one of the, it was one of the, uh, again, I think it was when they, I mean, I think the high point, you can say that, you know, beating Miami in both legs and to do so as emphatically as they did was maybe the high point. But for me, it was.

going to Mexico City at high altitude, playing and needing a result and having only drawn in the home leg. And coming back, you know, keeping pace with Pumas and then taking, I believe it was an 88th minute equalizer. That was the aggregate winner for Pumas. And then to go back. and get into the box in injury time and have your center back, Tristan Blackman, score your winner with an absolute banger, roof of the net type thing. I mean, it's like...

And remember, too, on top of all of this, and I know I'm prattling on here, but it was widely perceived by the local marketplace that this team was going to get moved. Yes. when they announced in the weather that this thing was going to be put up for sale. was incredible. I remember thinking, I mean, and I think it's something about Canada. Granted, they have the example of the Grizzlies, you know, the NBA's Grizzlies were very painful and there was a lot of duplicitousness.

on the part of ownership in terms of the lead up to them moving to Memphis. But every Canadian market, I think, that has a U.S.-based league in it, a team in the U.S.-based league, is convinced that, you know, that any team, any market in the U.S., because the exchange rate and the media marketplace and so forth, is going to be superior to them.

People were saying they're going to be the Indianapolis Whitecaps. I mean, I was getting people were telling me this, you know, this gloomy kind of outlook on things. And I talked to Axel Schuster for a big feature I did about this story a few weeks ago.

And he was talking about how kind of frustrating it was that no matter what they said, no matter how much they emphasized that nothing like that was in the current plans. And granted, people can change, you know, stuff that remains to be seen, who's going to buy the organization and so forth. But for all, as far as we can tell,

You know, MLS wisely, I think, realizes this is a world city. This is a place where they need to be. This is a place where the... a big corporate presence, a lot of money in that city, incredibly. dyed-in-the-wool football and culture, and all those things matter, right? And you're seeing it. I mean, when I interviewed Sebastian Berhalter a few weeks ago, He said, I think it was in the first leg of the Miami series when the Southsiders did a TIFO that said, you've...

Sorry, I'm paraphrasing. I may not nail it, but he said, basically, you've allowed us to dream again. And he said, I had to compose myself in the pregame anthem lineup when I read that because he got emotional. that there was that sort of connection between the fans and those fans have lived through some stuff, right? I mean, compared especially to the Sounders fans who generally had things pretty good in MLS.

Whitecaps have gotten kicked around. They've had scandal. They've had disappointment. They've had coaching relationships turn sour. You know, they've had players, Wandaway players, they've had all kinds of, they've had every aspect, negative aspect, I think, of the MLS experience you can have in the decade plus they've been around. It's just beautiful to see them, the team, the organization, and the city just kind of vibe in this way.

Yeah, you know, I've been saying, obviously I'm a little closer to this than you, I guess. But I think Vancouver's a world-class city. I don't think I'm saying anything crazy by saying that it's a... that it's a world-class city. I have all along said that this is like one of the sleeping giants in North America and North American soccer. Like they are like the Vancouver market is a very soccer savvy market. They understand.

They understand the game. They understand the sport. They understand what the Whitecaps are. And I think in some ways that's maybe hurt the Whitecaps specifically because... They have a fan. There's a lot of soccer fans there, but there's a lot of soccer fans that are committed to other teams already. And I think that sometimes they get unfairly, you know, like in Seattle, for whatever reason, there's not a huge number of people who are comparing us to the Premier League all the time.

Whereas I get the sense that And maybe it's because it's Canada and it's just sort of, it's culturally closer to England. But I do feel like that the Whitecaps sort of suffer that comparison and they've not helped themselves by being a... aggressively mediocre at best team for most of their existence. And so you see how many people showed up to watch the Champions Cup semifinal against. Miami where they, I believe they sold out. They completely sold out.

uh bc place which was an amazing place to amazing thing to see because that is a venue that can be amazing on its day and it's going to be a little sad for me personally if they end up moving out of downtown and they moved to this, I believe it's Empire Field where they played their first season or the grounds of Empire Field where they played their first season on the old, I think it's the old expo.

or they're all fairgrounds in any case and it's not in downtown and I'm sure it'll be great but I will be a little sad if they end up moving because I do think BC Place has a lot of potential to be like a really great venue in MLS But I'm also really hopeful that this does, even though they are rivals, I think today there was a funny little line at the end of the press conference with Brian Schmester where they asked him about, what his interests will be in watching both the

Champions League final, where Inter Milan is playing PSG. PSG, of course, will be playing the Sounders in the Club World Cup. And then on Sunday, watching... watching Cruz Azul play the Whitecaps, and of course, knowing that the Sounders are going to be playing Whitecaps, And he just said, he's like, look, we're all a fan of Canada. And then he took a pause and kind of hoping that the cameras turned off. And he said, unlike our president.

And it was just kind of this funny line where it's like, I do think that the Sounders as an organization just fundamentally view the Whitecaps differently. And anyway, I don't know why the point of that was other than to share that little anecdote. We all know more, right? Right, exactly. I mean, that's always been the third wheel accusation of Cascadia.

Absolutely. And I think it's true also to a degree. I just don't think anyone feels the antipathy for the Whitecaps that the Sounders and Timbers feel for each other. That's for sure. Anyway, so it's just fascinating to see. I'm sure Ryan Gold will come back just in time for the Sounders game and probably put up a hat trick and carry them to victory because that's the way this Whitecaps season is going. But, you know, you just look at their last game.

And here they were. They give up two early goals to RSL. It's on the road. They have bigger fish to fry. Pack it in. Who cares, right? And what do they do? They come out at altitude, and then they tie it up before halftime, even. Brian White gets a brace before halftime. And then Pedro Vite comes in with a 90-minute winner that seems to just be sort of...

illustrative of this team right now. You cannot count them out. You talk about the Pumas game. That was probably the one game this year where they've been outplayed pretty significantly. And when Puma scored that goal, it did feel like, oh, it was a nice run that they had. And then... Five minutes later, here's Tristan Blackman pulling a goal out of absolutely nowhere. And, you know, I think I trailed off.

Did I even say earlier, like, the incredible thing is they come back home and they all said afterwards they were exhausted and they gave Austin five goals. three days later. Or maybe it was two days later, whatever it was. The flight gets in from Mexico at two in the morning. And Austin has, you know, up to that point in particular, was and is a respectable defensive unit, and they absolutely torched them at BC Place. So, yeah, you got to love it. You know, again, this game's capacity.

to surprise is a wonderful thing about it. Yeah, and I would say that the Whitecaps, more than any other team this year, have been springing these surprises and sort of like...

reminding everyone that it's not about the names on the front of the jersey or it's not it's not about the names on the back of jersey heck it might not even be about the name on the front of the jersey it's just sometimes they got to have a belief in what they're doing and they they do seem to have this level of belief that is Frankly, amazing and very impressive.

I wish them the worst of luck when the Sounders play them, but I can't help but admire what they're doing as long as they're not facing the Sounders. And unlike if the Timbers were... I was on Scuffed a few weeks ago, and they asked me what my rooting interest was in the CONCACAF Champions Cup Final, and I said, I'm rooting for the Whitecaps. I'd love to see the Whitecaps doing well, as long as it's not at the Sounders' expense.

And I feel like that's probably the case in this game. And who knows, maybe that hangover will help them, will help the Sounders too if they win this thing. And I also think it's kind of... And they're done that. Right. And also there's something there's something very fitting about the only two. The only two MLS teams to win the modern era of the CONCACAF champions.

Tonka Champions, I guess, is what we've decided to call this now, right? Sure. Is two teams from Cascadia, and not one of them being the Timbers is just really kind of wonderful. Well, you've got me excited for Sounders' caps, and I do think this first one will probably be a little bit short of the peak of what it could be, but they play again in the heat of the stretch run on September 27th.

the 28th, something like that in Seattle. That one should be good. We may not get full... full lift off this time around but who knows man i mean maybe this maybe the cops have got some some homegrowns and two guys that are just uh ready to tear it up Yeah, I will say the Whitecaps 2 just destroyed the Defiance the other day, so I wouldn't necessarily put that past them to have something in the tank for this one. But, Charlie, I...

Can't thank you enough for doing this on short notice. I will also tease that you are going to be doing some content for Sounder at Heart around the Club World Cup. So if people liked what they heard from you. We're going to be getting more of it this summer and in the next few weeks. So it's been great doing this. Yeah, exactly. I finally got the call. I finally got the call to the real website.

exactly that's what we like to hear that way to way to butter me up there i appreciate that uh well charlie where else other than mls soccer where else can people follow you uh and of course Yeah, so I'm spending most of my social media time on Blue Sky these days. Gosh, it's something or other. But I think it's Seabom. Anyway, it's on there. We'll link it in the show notes. Yeah, there you go. And, uh, and then get out and you can, you can write me on there.

The Twitter is, I check in and get my mail every once in a while, but it's like, it's a hellscape. But if you hit me up there, I'll respond eventually. But Blue Sky is where it's at. scenebomb at beastguy.social Great. Perfect. All right. Well, thank you again for doing this. I am Jeremiah Shan. Signing off for Charlie Bone on Nos Audietas, part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network. And of course, thank you to our sponsor, Football Wines. We're going to catch you next time. Hopefully, mercy.

I expect LAFC who is motivated. to prove themselves at home, to prove to their fans that they're capable of winning in this league. And it's up to us to really ruin the party. You guys like that? Awkward joke, dad joke.