Hey, this is Chris Roldan and Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to this. This episode of Nos Audietis is sponsored by Fulpool Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Audietis since 2011. Fulpool was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle and is owned and operated by longtime sounders supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
This is a tiny, well, is that what you young people call Torquing? Welcome back to another episode of Nos Audietis. I am Jeremiah Oshan joining me today is one of my favorite guests, Matt Montgomery of Wasatch Soccer Sentinel. Yeah, that's the word. Okay, that's what I thought. And we're going to talk about RSL. Sounders, we're playing first place, RSL. Have you, is that sounding good to you first place, RSL?
It's sounding surreal. I mean, because I've been writing about this team since 2011 and it's happened just a handful of times. Even when the team was really good, first place was always a just out of reach. And now it's not just in reach, but like happening. Yeah, been out. And it's very strange. I mean, I like it. Don't get me wrong, but I don't think we're quite supportershield contenders. I think that pace now is two points per game and RSL is just under that.
Yeah, I mean, you're certainly not leading the race, but it seems like that's within the realm of possibility. You know, it's funny. I feel like we were talking maybe around this time last year and and we weren't quite sure what to make of RSL at that point. Yeah, they had sort of a random seemingly a random assortment of intriguing pieces. Pablo Master, any was sort of all over
the map in terms of his tactics. Yeah, they throw out his entire coaching staff, replace force a new coaching staff on him and low and behold, like magic happened, it seems like what is going how would you describe what is going on with RSL and this sort of roster and tactics? If I if I have to do it in like one player's name, Chicho Orango, who is having like a career year and he's already been good and unless, but he's racing toward that 50 goals number like faster
than was anybody but Taylor 12min, which is a very fast. Yes, yes, he's at the peak of his career. Everything's going really well for him. And that's that's the bulk of it.
And I think that it feels like there's got to be more, right? Certainly like Pablo Master, and he's game plan has changed almost overnight, which tells you a lot about what the role of the coaching staff was and is now and his role as a tactician because he's he's not a tactical coach and I think everybody knows that now and understands that and having a good tactician with him seems to have made a big difference. But it's also it's just so hard to overlook like the the role of form
and the role that Chicho Orango's like preternatural ability to like score goals. I don't know, it's it's really it's really nice. I like it. It's got me worried, but not for any actual reasons, but more because I'm just not used to this. Yeah, so who is the architect of this new tactical setup? Great question. The club, nobody's out there saying like, oh, so and so the assistant coach is the architect here. What is that? Is because Pablo Master, when he when he gives interviews, is
not always straightforward. That's fine. Yeah, sure. Yeah. He's a bit of a wild card that way. But I mean, in a way, like their on field changes that are best explained by the roles players have taken. Chicho Orango is going between like a nine and a 10 and a half sort of role. Yeah, yeah. But but not certainly not a traditional 10 when he's playing a little further back. And it or maybe like that nine and a half role, it's all like very esoteric to me. And I it almost
feels like that's by design. But we've seen players like Emeka and Nelly have an incredible start to a season. He played all but 20 minutes of the season now. Maybe all but 30 minutes and that all came in the last game that that step off onto the under the bench. And it's it feels like it's just everything's clicking at the same time. It's it's peak performance and maybe in a way, I've discounted the role of Pablo Mesterany there because he's the sort of coach that will
get the most out of his players, right? That's that's been his whole thing from the word go is he is the motivator is the one that can extract the most. And maybe now that some of the weird tactical things they were doing have been changed like preferring not to possess the ball. For instance, was something in 2023 that was very clear. The team focused on you know switching play when they
had possession. And the team now is possessing the ball. And those things like feel a little common sense and MLSC says like there's not a lot of room for success with the team that intentionally bunkers and counters, right? That's that's something that you can do every now and then or if you have a team that's really like geared toward that. But our cell is a team that's geared toward like holding possession, moving forward attacking and countering when the moment is right. And I think
you can see that across the league. So I guess the architect is is probably public masterany, but there are a lot of factors going on there. And we're almost halfway through the season and I'm originally told one of my podcast go hosts like you know I'll believe when we're halfway through the season. And you said Matt we just played our 15th game. Right. Like oh well. All right. Fair enough. Well, it's it's funny because you don't like you said you don't
necessarily think of of masterwini as this tactical genius. And yet he you know his last really good team was one that was built really, really heavily on defensive solidity at Paul Rado. And and it seems like really what this team is built on right now is is sort of full guns blazing off. Now they've been good. They they're I realized their goals against numbers are pretty good, but all the underlying numbers say they're X like they're they're more open than I like a stout defensive
team would be. But this is a really like genuinely good offensive team. You know you look at their at their non penalty expected goals. They're fourth in the league right now. And they have and if you look at who is generating that it's it's not just Chicho Arongo. It's Carlos Gomez. It's Diego Luna. It's and it's players that are you know young. There's all you know there's some players
it's it's there's not really an easy to dial in explanation for this. And it does seem to be sort of defying what we think of as how you build a competitive MLS roster. Yeah and I think bringing up Diego Luna is key there. He's changed from a player who like who the coaching staff bought of as an like an option. He was young. We don't want to rush him toward the last five games or so he's been essential and he's been making you know a different
theater. That's really nice. I like that. But there's there's a risk there because he's going out you know almost certainly going off to the Olympics in the summer. Uh-huh. And and missing a good chunk of time. And those things I think provide some risk. Now Chicho Arongo you know as a a Colombian
national team player like he's he's not like the best Colombian striker right. So RSL is a little and like has a little protection because they've got this great player who is not going to play all the time for his national team or maybe well but uh but if he doesn't like that's that's good for RSL right. It's like having a great Brazilian striker in MLS like for Argentinian number 10. Exactly like they are not going to be called up to the national team every time and maybe that's
not the case with Arongo. Maybe he will be um but but there's a history and pedigree there that is interesting at the very least. I am starting to worry a little bit about RSL's uh non-penalty expected goals against. Yeah um so I don't know if you use McClatch app. I do yeah we have uh uh yes we we checked their game data we haven't honestly dug into their stuff as much but go ahead. Yeah so we're familiar with it or readers or listeners should be familiar with it. So I mean you
you've seen my forum guide and I love that rolling statistic right. Yeah where we're we're looking at a period over time and comparing that period uh and then segmenting that right like it's something it's something they do in climate science all the time and it's useful for showing trends that are not always clear from like a a game by game basis. And what we see is RSL's uh expected goals against has been steadily climbing over the last uh eight weeks basically.
Hmm and and I think we see that reflected on the field as well with the last two games. I believe it was the last two games at least let's yeah they gave up three goals back to back weeks. Yeah and games and good good teams don't give up three goals right. That's a good hard and fast rule that you can almost always apply. Right and yeah I certainly don't do it in back to back games.
Right but RSL also came back in those games I mean they won five three against Colorado Rapids after being down three now uh they grew three three against FC Dallas like I don't know this is a weird team and it is it's defying some of the common sense sorts of things that I've I've held fast for a long time and I don't know how long it holds. I would like to hold the rest
of the season and and certainly at least for uh for Wednesday's match. Right. That would be nice and then and then and then maybe in the office season you can get around to addressing it. That would be great yeah. I guess if we go a full season like performing like this and I don't know but but it's it's interesting to see this team on a what an 11 game on beaten streak. Yeah giving up three goals in back to back weeks and remaining on beaten but that that doesn't happen in MLS right.
No it it definitely doesn't but it is a team that is that is just a lot of fun to watch right now and that's not necessarily something that we would associate with RSL right over the years. Yeah at least recently. Not since 2013 really like uh it's always watching highlights from Imagine 2012 and just watching how silky smooth that team was and how they attacked and the match I was
watching was a one illoss against Chivas. It wasn't like a great game but but we're starting to see that sort of thing again and I'm very pleased but I'm I don't know I've been I've been hurt too many times. Yeah no I I hear you uh well you know you mentioned this person before earlier in the show and I want to dig into this because this is someone who I had no idea who a mecca and Nelly was before this season started and he has become sort of the linchpin it seems of the RSL midfield and and
he you know when Paulo Ruiz went out it seemed like okay this is this is their jowl Paulo this is this is kind of like nice story and everything but RSL is not going to do much without without Paulo Ruiz and and here a mecca and Nelly I don't know if he was necessarily
a direct replacement but here he is stepped up and he is just this absolute rock like what's his story yeah so he signed with RSL after coming out of the draft last year and and he was drafted with a okay another draft pick whatever right draft picks come and go and MLS and every now and then you get a player who like makes the team and they don't usually do much more than make the team right right that's that's a common wisdom uh a mecca and Nelly defied that in his first year by
being like a reliable figure uh by being a reliable starter in multiple positions and when he started he tended to be one of the better players on the field like he went to Cornell his parents emigrated from Nigeria and and his story is is unusual that way in the way that he's come up from like a college that doesn't produce great MLS players right Cornell is known for a lot of things but it is not known
for like a soccer pipeline reasonably right no one expects that but Nelly has been been really really good he's a very smart player like that makes a difference right smart players are I think able to make that jump way more easily than the players who add unusual athletic abilities at you know the
age of 14 right yeah and an academy and I think he came through the crew academy so it's not like he didn't play soccer in an academy system but but certainly like he he wasn't a homegrown player like that's a pretty big mess right right I don't know but but players also peak later and and you know
at at 24 he's he's not a young player by any means anymore uh he he's that college age player who came out who went to college at the normal times did all four years and and made an MLS roster um and I think part of what we're saying is he he's nearing that start of like being a genuinely
good player in his career and you don't see that you know until like 24 25 26 generally statistically right unless the player is like an unusual talent um but but I think we're saying just a player who's nearing the the apex of his career already and it's really cool to see he's
got a great story uh just a really fun player can play right back can play defensive midfield uh Heidi on the ball like Heather's had uh wants to progress I I can't say enough good things about him well you you've said plenty of good things about him I'm not I and they don't make me feel
real good about coming into this game I'm gonna tell you uh well you want me to say the three goal thing again yeah do you do you do they do tend to give up three goals right that's the that's the rule now yeah over the last two games the average average goals can see it is three they got yeah
so a good trend as those things go uh at least as far as the centers so what is the you know this is the middle game of a three game week for RSL I don't know if this I know the sounders are in the this is the last of a 10 game or a five week stretcher they've been playing midweek every week
uh last time these two teams met was also a midweek game the sounders rotated pretty much well they rotated about half their their starting lineup what kind of rotation or or of any are you expecting in this game yeah I was looking for the injury report and it's not looking awful um certainly Marcelo Silva is going to be out for a long time uh so I I and Brian ver is still listed as questionable uh so so there is a chance you don't see any changes at center back that's probably the biggest area
where if Brian ver is ready to go he steps in um but there hasn't been a whole lot of like optional rotation it's been hey this player's injured we need to go right now uh so I I think that'll really dictate what we see uh we could see Nelson Pulasio start instead of Brian O'Hater or a Mecca and Ellie I think not playing an Ellie wouldn't be the best thing for the team's performance but at some point he's got to got rast right uh the college season is not as grueling as an
endless season yeah and I don't care how physically fit you are like the analyst season catches up with you with the way they condense these games but there is a two week break coming or a week break coming up so maybe our cell thinks let's get the most out of these players now
with strike while the sirens hot and then let's give them a break and take a big laugh training I don't know so I guess the the short answer is you don't know how much rotation there's going to be yeah you never know with Pablo Mastraini sure absolutely uh that said the last time
we saw Gavin Beaver's started in goal for Zach McMath McMath basically gave away two goals against Dallas last week I would say not not just basically like he literally literally dropped one goal one ball into the goal right and then he also misplayed a ball coming off his line about
as badly as it's possible to misplay a ball yeah yeah so I don't know is is this a but Gavin Beaver's also pitched a shutout against the founders which he made a couple good say at least one or two good saves in uh and he looks like for a 19 year old goalkeeper sure looks sharp
yeah I I am excited by him uh he's got a great big frame he's agile he's smart uh he will make mistakes but I'm a lot more patient with a 19 year old with potential making mistakes than a 30 whatever old yeah making those same mistakes right and that that's kind of to be expected
I expect a young player to make a mistake here and there I don't expect veteran Zach McMath I mean I kind of do but I don't expect like a veteran goalkeeper first choice to do that once in the game let alone twice and I I don't think it'll be a case of McMath being dropped uh it could lead
to that but I I do think Gavin Beaver's will play in this one okay and just just because that's the pattern they followed with these midweek games yeah the other player who came in last game I'm just kind of curious about was Philip Quentin who is a fascinating player just because he's like
666 and he's playing right back he that was how he had his hands full with Georgie Manongo in the in the last game uh but he acquitted himself reasonably well uh what is his deal he is one of the stranger players I've seen he's a very tidy passer um but he he's not a great defender all the time
right sometimes makes like big mistakes I I think what RSL did in that game was was played a like a lopsided three man backline yeah and I I think he was playing not like a right back but a center back who occupied some of the most of the time like where a right back traditionally would be
mm-hmm but I think his role is very much like a limited center back playing in a wide position mm-hmm and I think that's where like he was able to defend with that mindset because he wasn't trying to win the ball in advance up the field right right his goal was just to prevent uh
prevent that attack getting around him and he's big enough and and somehow fast enough that he's able to acquit himself there I will say like he is my biggest worry if he plays a center back um he he's just not he he's a backup and and I think it's fine for backups to not be
as good um but with you know RSL children three center back injuries right now like I don't know it puts me in a nervous position sure well there's your happy feeling yeah there's our happy feeling well that's that's a probably a good place to call this what's going on so
uh watch that soccer Sentinel is where we can read you presumably yeah and listen to the podcast and listen to the podcast anything anything else going on in your world we should know about you got a any hot games you want to promote you are of course the my favorite board game newsletter
writer oh thank you there there a few of us out there yeah um no but I mean uh this week's newsletter which I published weekly on Wednesdays so if you want to read it the meeples is that right uh don't eat the meeples don't eat the meeples eat the meeples would have been good too but uh no don't eat
the meeples it's like the name is sort of a Sesame Street reference of all things oh okay there's a great uh I think late 80s TV movie called Don't Eat the Pictures that's very weird like it's like it's it's fully narrative and there's like an Egyptian prince who transcends the
stars it's really weird um anyway that's neither here nor there um but I am taking uh one of my nerdy or takes uh in this week's newsletter and uh it's a a little bit of a star crack thing so if that's your thing I don't know you can read it I guess yeah well I think we got some nerdy
listeners on this on this podcast oh I promise you do yeah yeah I love it it's something about the Pacific Northwest that on now exactly well Matt thank you again for doing this I wish your team the absolute worst of luck uh tomorrow yeah uh but you know I hope I do like I actually do
like seeing our SL do well just I would refer it not to be at my team's expense again yes again again thank you yeah we didn't even talk about how weird it is that we're playing so soon yeah that it's happened last year too yeah I don't what's up with this in order to midweek games
what is what is the schedule maker doing to us nothing good I I like to see these spaced out same-on-saturdays like maybe I can make it up to Seattle for a game not midweek what am I good not made of money here yeah I'm tired yeah I would love to retire but I'm like 25 years off
from that yeah well uh yeah I don't I don't have anything to add to that other than thank you Matt for doing this and it's always a pleasure and you know maybe we'll we'll meet again in league's cup or something I don't know oh I hate leagues cup but I guess I'll see you there okay all right well I'm Jeremiah Shan signing off for no study at this we will catch next time we love you let's win another one