Hi, I'm Will Bruin and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounder's legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. This episode of Nos Audietis is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Audietis since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle and is owned and operated by longtime
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and our lovely subscribers. This is our post-leagues cup group stage catch up and we're recording on Monday, August 5th. I'm Aaron Campo, filling in for Jeremiah who is on the road this week and joining me today is our good friend, Mark Casner. Mark, thanks for joining me today. How are you? You know, I was better before I watched the Sounders last night, but overall, pretty good. Yeah, that's kind of an evergreen thing, fortunately.
Especially when we're talking about the leagues cup, which, you know, I'm sure our listeners have figured out I'm not a big fan of. I think it's fair to say you're not a huge fan, either, but it's the Sounders, you know, we've got a job to do. So let's do it. The leagues cup group stage is coming on. It was a bit of a big step back for the Sounders.
They looked pretty good and I too know when I got to Minnesota United in the first leg, but they did leave it quite late and were helped quite a bit by a 65th minute straight red card to the Sony Dotson for a pretty shocking tackle that injured role Radeeaz who was quite frankly, I think pretty lucky that the injury wasn't worse than it appears to have been. But still, the Sounders looked good throughout despite not getting their first
goal until the 87th minute and tacking on another right before the final whistle. Minnesota were able to hang around as long as they did in large part thanks to an heroic performance from goalkeeper Dan St. Clair. We don't, as far as I'm aware, we don't have XG for leagues cup games, but the Sounders managed 20 shots. They were very much on the front foot all night long. It was a really encouraging performance, I thought following what was
a pretty major letdown against L.A.F.C. in the last match before the break. The Nacoxa game, less encouraging, I think it's fair to say. Sounders came out of the gate flying. Obed Borges scored a fantastically taken goal in the eighth minute. I think one of the best pieces of play I've seen from Obed ever maybe just a great finish. It looked like the Sounders have doubled their lead less than 10 minutes later when Pedro De La Vega scored
a completely outrageous curling shot from about 20 yards out. I had to watch this three or four times to figure out what had happened. I just assumed it had taken a deflection on some kind. But unfortunately, it doesn't matter because it was overturned by the kind of ticky tack bullshit offside call that makes everyone hate var. And that was the end of anything good, we're positive from the game. Nacoxa leveled in the 25th minute. Pedro
De La Vega was pulled due to a great injury right after the half hour mark. We don't know how severe it is right now, hoping it's just precautionary, but tough to say. Nacoxa would take the lead right before half time and they were completely in control, I think, from then on. Ranch Mets were two as credit. I thought made some really aggressive substitutions. But it didn't really change that much. The Sounders were just bereft of ideas. Nacoxa was really,
really well organized. And they would go on to win the group by adding a third at the end of the start of stoppage time. Ultimately, it didn't really matter. The Sounders did enough against Minnesota United to assure that they'd move onto the knockouts. They're still going to host in the next round. I think the lineup choices, some degree reflected that. This was a definitely a rotated squad. The Danny Leva, Obedoar, I guess, central midfield pairing was not one we've
seen a lot of. For reasons, probably, I think, are a little more understandable now. Re Baker Whiting had a rough game defensively. Nacoxa is a team that loves to counter attack. They found the opportunities to do that. They scored. It doesn't change anything really for the next round other than the opponent. It wasn't a game of Sounders. It needed to win. Even if you're invested in the league's cup, I think it's probably difficult to be too bothered by this result.
It's just one of those things. You get countered at home. It's a bomber you move on. I think the thing that does concern me is some of the negative patterns that we saw earlier in the season, long passages of just two-plus possession, fragility in the base of Bad Fortune. Those are things that I think we saw in the LASFC game to some extent and really in the Nacoxa game. I just wanted to take your temperature, Mark, on how you're feeling after these two
games. I never really want to get into the conversation of discrediting what people feel and why they feel the way that they feel. I would say if you want to be really upset right now about this team, if you feel like they're uninspiring or boring, they gave you everything in this last game to
stoke that fire. But also if somebody who wants to cling on to anything for this season, depending on how you felt after the LASFC game, it was kind of like, well, we're going to have to wait and see until the next time they play LASFC if the season's going to be anything, which obviously is the semi-final of the Open Cup. They gave you some hope in the Minnesota game where they didn't play great, but they definitely did enough to win the game and it just happened to
be that those two goals came super late. It's like there's optimism for the people that want to be optimistic. There's a bunch of stuff to be pessimistic about if you want to be pessimistic. I am at a stage where like I can't personally be invested in the Leaks Cup because it's just like it is like I feel so disconnected from reality when this thing is happening that I'm just like I don't blame anybody for anything that happens into it because it doesn't feel
real to me. But I will say, I think the one thing that I can hold on to and feel like pretty bummed out about is and it might be unfair to make this connection, but other people have been making it and it's definitely a valid concern people have. Earlier this week, the founders raised the ticket prices on season ticket holders because of some weird tax thing that's happening all of a sudden. And then that the next home game that they play, this stuff happens. And it's just kind of like
there's probably it's not just this one game obviously. Like you said, there are themes that happen in this game that we've discussed countless times throughout the season. And it's just a bummer. You know, it's just a bummer to keep talking about the same like, oh, this team just doesn't like you know, to your to your point, semester did make aggressive subs, but how many times can he go to that well where he makes one or two subs at halftime. And it's just like you can't keep being the
like you can't keep going to the same tricks. You've got to actually get better and they might not be actually getting better. It's tough to tell. So yeah, this to me feels like a team that was really underachieving earlier in the season that gave a lot of people concerns that they were worse than they probably are. But I think it's fair to say at this point that and this is not obviously based on
just the Nacox game or even just the LFC game, just it's the pattern of results. I do not think this team was ever a real favorite to win the West as they were sort of pegged by a lot of folks. I was optimistic about this team. I think that they just the upside isn't there with the players they have. And there's no there's no ace in the sleeve on the bench, right? There's no
there's no magic bullet that's going to help you win games. You know, I thought what I guess if you want to be encouraged by anything, it was very obvious and maybe this this is this can be encouraging if you want it to be it can be discouraging if you want it to be it's totally a you know a perception thing. I was encouraged by the fact that Rhyne Schmetzor was
clearly very very frustrated by how slow the team was playing. If you compare the first 15 minutes of the game where things were moving very quickly the balls go on side to side quickly, they're there being the sounders being progressive when they turn the ball over they're pressing they're winning the ball back. That is when the sounders play well is when they're playing like that. After the overturned goal and especially I think after Nacox's first goal, it was the opposite
of that. It's that slow plotting methodical style that can be really effective if you guys if you have the guys to have it. Unfortunately the sounders haven't had the kind of prime nuclear literal player that that helps that style works since 2021 right and 2022 partially I guess and you know it's just it's it's awful to watch when they get stuck in that rut and and I think
it is encouraging that it's clear that it's not the way Rhyne Schmetzor wants the team to be playing and they've taken positive steps to not play that way anymore I think in a lot of games but it's it's discouraging that that tendency is still there when they're kind of out of ideas and and that's
I think it is truly terrible to watch and unfortunately it happens most frequently at home because if the defense gets settled it's what the sounders are going to end up doing and that's what happened in this game you know as soon as as soon as the game was level Nacox attacked it in and
it breaking down a well organized defense is difficult for any team anywhere in the world to do I don't I don't care who they are so I don't think the sounders are unique in that it's difficult to do that to break that those teams down successfully but I think the way that they tend to go
about trying to do it is pretty miserable to watch and you know it's so it's I don't blame you know the crowd seemed to really restless to me like they seemed as annoyed and upset as I've seen as I've heard them before and I don't blame them man if that's how I spent my Sunday night you
know it was bad enough spending it on the couch watching it I can't imagine how much of a bummer that would be to you know to do it on actually going to the game traveling to the game if you had to and then like you said like the ticket price thing I don't want to talk too much
about it because every five minutes I hear something new and so I don't want to say something that ends up not being true about it right but right now it appears to be that a lot of what the sounders have been telling people is more or less kind pretty accurate maybe but the way they
went about communicating it was I think horrific and the sticker shock is still the sticker shock and you know this is the same product that the sounders have been putting out there for a long time and these guys used to be better than they are now I mean that's just that's that's the reality of it
and I don't blame people for being sick of watching it we'll get into this a little bit more a little later in the show but something has got to give that some point in time I don't know what that is I really don't I'm not calling for anybody to be fired or anything like that it's just
we can't keep doing this year after year unfortunately it sounds like it's pagelled Pedro De La Veda's groin that's giving so yeah that's it that's a hey you know what you're in pro mark because that's a great segue because that's one of the things I wanted to talk about
is is payload it Pedro De La Veda coming off injured with the groin injury we don't like I said we don't know how severe I think the fact that he jogged off he didn't have ice on it for that long apparently that is encouraging I think that they are just treating him you know they're handling
him with kid gloves which I think is the right thing to do but it's not good to see yeah and I think like uh smetzer said something very interesting and kind of uh De La Veda's ramp up kind of the last time he was injured or I guess guess that would have been pretty recently you know in like June
or July where he was just kind of like doing a media availability and then randomly said if he gets hurt again we're going to shut him down for the season right and that was just like you know kind of caught everybody off guard like what how hurt is this guy you know and I do think that you've got
a kind of wonder like if he's not going to be able to put it together at this point in this season you know I don't want to have the conversation of like is he a waste of money is he a bust he's just clearly a very good player but he might just need some time off yeah and when you hurt
too and when you hurt two hamstrings and then you're injuring your groin you kind of probably just need like to rest and right yeah and you know I think if you're looking at this season and if if it seems like the front office is already kind of riding it off because they're not willing to
spend the money to bring in an impact signing this window you know they say they're going to try to target somebody but it's not kind of the the big move a lot of people want to see I you know shipping out Raoul and probably bringing in another multi-million dollar signing that's not going to
happen this team is just going to be as good as this team is and they're probably just this good this is it yeah they're a team that's going to finish between let's say fourth and seventh in the Western conference they could probably they you know they have a real decent chance at winning
US Open Cup and we've you know they might be good enough to do something in the playoffs but it would take a genuine miracle for them to win in Alaska yeah I mean I think the founders are actually uniquely pretty well set up for the playoffs or better than I think their seating would
indicate but I I would not feel great about this team's chance at the winning in Alaska you know like they have some like mid-90s Florida Marlins vibes where they are just built for the playoffs um they have a great defense they keep the scoring environment low they're really tough to
beat on the road blah blah blah blah all that stuff but ultimately they're going to have to be to LAFC or Columbus crew you know like one of the elite teams and it's just hard to see the new and not yeah and of course like something like that could happen and they are like I agree with you they
they're kind of perfectly made for a knockout tournament which is why I guess I'm a little bit bummed leeks cup has gone the way that it's gone because it's like hey this is a tournament you I don't think I would feel any differently about this season if they won leeks cup you know
they very well could do still do that you know um I personally wouldn't care but that's literally a trophy that they would get and they would be able to put into a trophy cabinet and it's a story that the team could tell yeah right champions like to you get champions like well yeah that's
that's true even though on the on the on the call they said you get a club World Cup birth but I don't think that that's true is it what they the founders already have one of those any ways it doesn't matter um yeah I mean
it's it's mid it's gonna be middle of August before we still don't know the founders best team the season yeah mostly because the one guy that they spent money on in the last like three years got hurt yeah and that's not his fault it's also not the training staff's fault it's not the
coaching staff's fault it is very very very poor roster planning on at an organizational level it's not just one person's fault you know Craig Weibull everybody's like upset about what he's doing or not doing and it's like there's such there's so clearly a problem with like communication
and planning within the organization at this point yeah that how can you like just say like oh the GM's not doing his job yeah I'm with you on that 100% I'm not going to go to bat for Craig Weibull and say that he's he's a great GM who's being held back I don't know and that's
that's my position and has been he has I think the fact that he was highly recommended by Garth Lagerway speaks to his abilities and and you know he's clearly a smart guy I think that Pedro de la Vega is the kind of signing I want the founders making most of his moves that he has
had the opportunity to make I don't really have huge problems with the Danny Misopsky signing right I think is a great example of unrealistic expectations because a lot of people are are I think really upset with that signing they think it's been he's been a huge bust and he's a
forward make he's a veteran forward with a decent MLS track record making under $400,000 this is what this is the kind of player you get for that right I don't have any problems with that signing the haybear signing I think was the result wasn't good but I have no problem with the process you know
he had a he had a established MLS track record of being a good player and you got to see I don't forget how to finish can't really blame Craig Weibull for that the only thing I really think I would I would hold against him is giving the extension to to Zavi but also I don't I don't really
know what they would have done with that money in the office season either right they so yeah it's maybe he is a bad gym but I just don't think we have any way of really knowing because he's not being given the ability to make the kind of big moves getting ahead of ourselves because we do
we will talk about this in more depth later but but yeah I'm totally with me on that the I think this team's ceiling is pretty well established as is the floor they're not a bad team and they're not that good of a team either and I think that they have specific weaknesses that Nekoxa exposed
speaking of specific weaknesses I would like to talk about Rebaker Whiting and this performance at left back for the first half of this game and just generally this season I like Rebaker Whiting a lot he clearly has an upside he clearly has some bordering on elite skills but his defense has
been a problem a pretty big problem you and I do not necessarily agree on new who but I think that we both agree we would rather have a left back like Rebaker Whiting but you have to you have to play a little bit of defense and and that's just been a big problem for Reed so far
do you have concerns on his ability to develop in this position longer term do you think you need to move up a line do you think that playing on the right would be better suited to his style of play and his his footedness I guess just some general thoughts on that yeah excuse me I do I do
think it's like probably his weakest position yeah of the like four or five he could play um and it's a little annoying that he's constantly put in this position when there are other things you could do with this current roster that could put him and other players into positions to succeed instead of just like hoping he figures it out I agree this wasn't a great game um he's had other poor performances at left back of the Kansas City game um you know I thought actually it was
actually pretty good when he played right back against L.A. FC even though that game there was nothing really a whole wasn't a whole lot of good that came from that game but um and then I think he's looked the best this season when he's playing as a winger with a more defensive pullback behind
him yeah as kind of a like a you know left or right-sided wingback basically um so yeah I mean like it's it's a pathway into the team right and there's there countless examples of players like this in the history of soccer that have played out of position have kind of come in step into a position
because that's where the available game time is and they've just made the best of it right yeah I think he is making the best of it I just don't think the best is very good right yeah so it's like um yeah he like and it should be said like it's not like the sounders got better defensively when he
subbed off the field like yeah true like knew who was like fine fine I'm not gonna turn this like I'm not gonna really talk about it but it's like look at the goal they conceded the third goal they conceded and it's there's just like a prop like they're not a bad defensive team but they just make
like really stupid defensive mistakes like I would say the you know the second and third goal shouldn't happen yeah for a good defensive team the first goal you just kind of can be like well whatever okay but yeah and it's just it's just like a young player like Reed needs a platform
to be able to perform on yeah and I feel like the platform given to him is like very rickety and like dangerous yeah and the reason why you want Reed Baker Whiting to be playing left back is because of his really is like fearlessness but he's he's so young and so raw
that he's going to be taking risks that he shouldn't you know an older player more kind of experienced player wouldn't make and you just got to kind of you cop for that right for a young kid but because of the way that the structure is it's just like he takes those risks and it's a
like it's just and a problem that happens over and over and over and over again yeah I think um and and I I actually think this is I understand why the team wants him to be a left back right he's if you can have a young attack-minded left back that you know has his skill set and he can stick
at that position that's a hugely valuable player both to the team now and on the market right so I get wanting him to wanting to see if he can figure that out and I think this is the right kind of game for that right you've already advanced to the next round more or less unless you get totally boat-raised and you're you're doing some rotation um and I think too to be fair to to read his errors kind of stood out but I thought that the midfield was a horror show all night and he was put in some
bad positions as well um I do think it is a little strange like you said that he's getting all this time at left back where he he does seem to struggle um where we have an established starter that Brian clearly likes pretty well um who I think I think the new who read Baker writing left left
side his looked really good when we've seen it I think that they suit each other really well their strengths um complement one another their weaknesses are sort of offset by the other strengths so I'd love to see that left side and I'd love to see read at the right back spot more frequently
because I think that the way the founders are set up to play his skill set is more well suited to that side of the field um so yeah but I do think maybe we have enough information now about him at left back um to know that maybe that's not gonna be his future um but I think he does have very bright future I'm still very high on read so um I also wanted to get your thoughts on Andrew Thomas um obviously we saw him a lot earlier in the year uh when one stuff where I was hurt we've seen him
in the open cup um but this is the first time we've seen him against top level competition since pretty earlier in the season and uh I think it's been kind of a mixed bag I I'm still very high on Andrew Thomas as well um but I was really hoping he would give us something to think about um maybe
not this year but going into next year and I don't know that he's done that I don't know that he did that these games but wanted to get your thoughts on that yeah I think uh probably wants to do better on the first goal yeah he gets a hand on it and it just kind of like bounces off of his
wrist into the goal I was yeah I was both encouraged and discouraged by his actions on the second goal um because that's a situation where I my biggest criticism of Stefan Fry comes into play where Fry just kind of like decides where he's gonna stand and never moves yeah you know similar
similar to his red card against DC that got rescinded like he just like picks a spot he just stands there yeah whereas like Thomas on that like actually came out off of his line and then was like oh this was a bad idea so like I guess while I would like to see him do better on that goal
I I guess I have to just kind of be like well that's the other side of the coin that's true that's true and you just you know for like the last basically 10 years we haven't had a goalkeeper make that kind of mistake because Stefan Fry just doesn't do stuff like that right um which I think
we should all appreciate especially those of us who have at times maybe said it's time for Fry to graduate uh into maybe not the starting goalkeeper rule but um yeah I mean I yeah I just don't think he played I don't think he played a very good game unfortunately and that's just kind of
the the life of a backup goalkeeper that you're hopeful ends up becoming the starter is at some point eventually yeah um yeah it wasn't not it was not a good performance I will say I thought his distribution was pretty good which has been a weak spot yeah great cool um like he was like
especially when the sounders are down um he was like so quick to get the ball out and into into transitional um transitional situations which I think kind of caught the players off guard because they're just not used to that yeah they didn't really know what to do in those situations
um but we kind of already talked about it was kind of a dead of a performance anyways so yeah I think that to me he is still very clearly the the the guy for the future um barring some kind of weird unprecedented collapse uh I love his game I love a skill set what I'm hoping for is next year
he gets some more opportunities as a rotational player um it's I know coaches do not like to rotate goalkeepers outside of competitions and I totally understand why but I think giving him some midweek games in MLS just getting him some more reps where you know Stefan Fry's deals up
after next year um I'm at this point totally comfortable with him going into next year as the starter but I don't want the transition to be too rough I want andertownness to get some more reps especially in league play next year and not all you know front loaded or whatever uh due to injury
and so that's kind of what I'm hoping for and if there's a if there's a benefit to stand in leeks cup it's that he gets a few more games I think um yeah and who knows we don't we don't know what's gonna happen in the open cup yet um I would hope that he is given the opportunity to play
this in my final in the final yes if the sounders advance that far and who knows maybe some sort of heroics um or just general good play it doesn't even have to be heroics yeah so yeah it's gonna be disappointing to me if uh if he's not starting against L.A.F.C. I think um and then it but you know
hopefully god willing in the final because I think if you're gonna tell a guy hey you've got this cup thank you for listening to the sounder at heart podcast network which now includes no sunny at this lobbying scorchers and the cooler yield we've been independent since august of 2023 but need
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and click the subscribe button in the top right corner thanks for listening they've they've got to have the whole thing like they've got to have the opportunity to wonder losing and I think you know Ziggy was pretty good about that I don't think he ever
went back to the starter if you had promised the the backup it's a you know so hopefully Schmatz has a as a similar perspective anything else you feel like we learned from from these games yeah I feel like we can't have a midfield without either Christian Rodan or Jell Paulo
yeah starting yeah I was I was like pretty excited about the possibilities of what this midfield partnership could have shown with Danny Levin's Obed Vargas and the 15 minutes when yep we thought the sounders were gonna score five they looked great and then like I don't know if like the monster's solar power is something during that VAR review that lasted an hour yeah um but they just like there wasn't enough experience between the two of them to know who needs the step who needs
the drop they're just like wasn't chemistry there and it um it's like really showed unfortunately and I think at least for the remainder of the year with um um you know whatever happens I think you got to figure out a way to either have Jell Paulo playing starting yep and then if that can't happen Christian Rodan has to be there um just to kind of provide the the um just the important base yeah so yeah I think if if that's like the most like reasonable and calmest thing I can say I learned yeah
so I think that was my big takeaway too is that and and maybe I'll go a step further and say that for me right now the I think the highest priority for the future not necessarily the signing I would make tomorrow if I could you know we have magic want to make a signing but I think the the thing
they have to figure out before they figure out anything else is Jell Paulo's replacement um because I I he's he's had some really good games this year he's had some really bad games this year um I don't think I would feel comfortable going into the next season with him in that role and I
think that this team has to have a a six some kind of defensive midfielder I would love for that eventually to be just a tencio I think he has the tools I do not think he's there yet um and I think it's gonna take like uh I think it's gonna take a purposeful transition for him to get there
um and I think having you know a guy that you can learn from from a couple of years come in at a either a tamer dp level would be uh would be a good way to facilitate that um so that I think that was myself as my big takeaway yeah I'm and two attend to the a tencio point I just don't see
the i'm gonna feel a partnership of him and oba vaga's like working together no they're two they're they're very similar players yeah and uh you know I think they're both very talented players and they both have played their best when they've been partnered with Jell Paulo yeah and they both
played their worst when they played together yeah um you know there's some john love it john mad and level analysis for you guys but I like I think if you know if we're gonna be proactive about this roster you gotta start wondering like can they cash in any amount on oba vaga's yeah
yeah and then have a plan around like okay jell Paulo can be here for one more year as kind of a spot starter and then we can bring in a partner for jell Paulo or excuse me josh a tencio yeah but who knows if that is the case yeah last night was really the gamut of the oba vaga's experience um
he had some some great attacking play loved his goal um the kind of stuff I've really been wanting to see for from him and just some really her undisputed giveaways uh maybe most glaringly that one towards the end of the game he did get put in kind of a hospital ball situation there so I don't
want to be too harsh on him but just a really bad decision to I would say passing to the opposition in your own uh eighteen is never never good so um it's not what you want not what you want but you know um he's he's a kid right he's eighteen uh it's gonna happen sometimes he's nineteen today
that's right today's is birthday so happy birthday happy birthday oh good um yeah I do think I think there's a world where obad and a tencio are a great pairing if the founders make a move to play not play them without a ten and then you put a uh just real destroyer type six behind
them and let them you know press like crazy and I I think that could look good but I'm not I don't think I that's where the founders are going with things I would I would guess so and I do think obad's probably you know gonna be not gonna be around too much fastest season so uh galaxy
are up on Thursday I don't have anything to say about that um you know we'll see galaxy are our good team uh the founders have hung with them pretty well this season although I think they've they've got a one point from the two games they played I believe um yeah so we'll see um
I I would if we're gonna be in this thing I I guess I'd kind of like to stay in it um just so any Thomas can get some more reps we can maybe do a little more roster a little more experimentation with the lineups uh but I'm also not gonna be hardbroken if they if they get bounced
any thoughts on the galaxy mark uh I think they're really good yeah unfortunately they're good team it's a bar yeah it's it really you know they've spent a lot of money they have like and not just on this current version of this roster but let's say in the last like
five or six years they've spent a lot of money on guys yeah and uh it finally stuck yeah they found three DPs that are like legit and mentally great so that's a bummer I'm I'm weirdly the sounds crazy to say but I'm weirdly kind of encouraged by the galaxy's resurgence because
the galaxy have that period where they were a dominant force in a mls um the sounders never reached quite the same heights in terms of mls cups and and all that but I think they reached a higher high and winning the the champions league and um they were kind of seen as the standard bear
the same way the galaxy were uh and then the galaxy fell off the face of the earth for a while um and I think a lot of people predicted that they were going to become DC united right like a team that used to be great and and now they have you know competition and uh and they're just going to be
mid lane team and so the fact that they have a managed to avoid that is in its own way kind of encouraging it's also kind of a bummer because I hate the galaxy and and I don't want western conference opposition to be to be good but um it is proof that you can get back there right um
unfortunately you have to spend money to do that so yeah that that is a good point when you spend um uh close to 20 million dollars on two guys right right uh it turns out that you can get some pretty good quality um yeah which yeah I don't know who needs to hear that yeah it's a nice
move but um well I've actually been told reliably that uh transfer fees don't actually help you at all and it's not smart to do uh well yeah I mean hey I don't know who out there thinks that but yeah um I would say maybe some of your internal bias need to be re-evaluated and modernized um
again I don't know who thinks that right um if you are somebody that does think that maybe maybe consider doing some evaluation there yeah uh another great segue actually because while we're here we might as well talk about the transfer window uh it's been open for over two weeks
uh be closing in a little over a week I'm guessing this episode will probably come out on Wednesday so a week from today if that is the case if not uh you know how to do math you can figure out how many days it is uh there was a lot of smoke and apparently uh at least a little bit of fire
around dino mose agrib wonder dario spikicch uh but sounders were reportedly unable to meet in salary demands and I think that that really illustrates how difficult it is for Craig Weibel to thread the needle on making an impact move in this window uh there's a finite amount of cap space
that the sounders have to work with fitting that kind of player into that cap space especially if they have a transfer fee associated you know with the move which they're probably going to um free agents also require signing on fees and all that kind of stuff um so it's tricky it's a it's very
tricky it's not an insignificant amount of cap space but it's also not a ton of cap space right there's a there's a very narrow window that they've got um and the only plausible way that they can get more is either uh is what I was gonna say by using a buyout but that's not plausible they're
not gonna do that um and uh so the only plausible way is to move a player that has value and that's gonna offset some of the positives of adding a new guy you know if you let's say you trade Nathan and uh open up some cap space that way maybe get some gamback or something like that
now your defensive depth is worse right so there are options to do that and maybe that tradeoff is worth it but it's not as nice as just going out and signing a guy um we've talked a fair amount on the show and and of course Jeremiah had a really great piece about this a few weeks back on the
subject uh nothing has changed for me the sounders have been on a much better team over the past few months they're still uh you know a slightly above average team I think they have some real weaknesses and things are just stale with the team the core has been the core for quite a while um and I like the core of the team but I need some new guys to keep keep things interesting I think the the fans do as well the rest of the fans do as well attendance is getting bad uh like we talked
about the crowd last night it was I think pretty vocally unhappy uh the thought of not doing anything at least a little bit ambitious in this window is completely baffling to me but at this point that seems how things are headed um there's just not that much time left and we haven't really heard anything rumor wise um since the the Dario speak it's uh rumor was sort of puts a bed
how are you feeling about it Mark? uh I felt so much dread when I saw Freddie Montero tweet a video of him playing of on a vintage TV and then an emoji that said soon yeah or back soon or something like that yeah um I think signing nobody would be better than that so that's how I feel yeah um I
don't know what that meant I don't have the emotional intelligence to to want to figure that out um um but transfer windows are are a funny thing like because fans talk about them as like a present reality like the the players are currently added to the roster in these windows but the actual reality is these things happen months ago where they should be happening get months ago there should be plans in place there should be your top you know five targets or three targets or you know you can
contact agents in teams and stuff outside of transfer windows and figure out what a possibility is yeah and the way that the sounders are behaving right now is a very 2012 way of handling a transfer window in its sucks yeah they're going out and seeing who's available in this moment and they're
having salary conversations with players and that is such a bad way excuse me that is such a that is not a way I approve of great um and I understand that there are current constraints around this roster that uh the specifics of which neither you and I are privy to because that information is
not released to the public however I think to identify and name yourself as an organization two targets that you have failed to get without actually saying like here's the one we actually are getting yeah like Garth was a master at this right he would he would get a player in and be like
yeah well we you know tried we tried A and B and we ended up on C but C is like a really great player and you know they would go on and either be good or they wouldn't be good whatever but he Garth had like a really great way of communicating those things I am I was at the beginning of the
summer I felt like pretty optimistic that they would buy out where I will and do something yeah um I think I even said that that was gonna happen and I was wrong I you know I thought they would come into the summer especially with like how the spring went with like a statement and the statement
they've made is basically like the fans have unreal expectations yeah or unrealistic expectations they have a winning soccer team yeah um and it and it feels a lot like kind of getting like scolded as a spoiled child which I think is really bad and I'm not happy with anything that
has happened so far and I don't care if they sign somebody anymore because I don't think the player that they're gonna sign can realistically be good because the free agents that are available now are theoretically free agents that know European team wanted because European leagues are starting now
you know or they're well into their pre-season now yeah um a a player that is available for sale from a European team right now is again not very good and not a meaningful addition to the squad um at least in like a holistic sense and so just don't waste my time I don't want to get to know
somebody that's not really gonna move the needle yeah I it's unfortunate kind of that the window ends when it does because there's always that period right at the end of the European window where teams get all their stuff in place and they say okay we've got all these guys that we want to
ship out right and you can get some good players you can get some good value for money um during that portion but the MLS window is closed um and so those those options aren't there and yeah I think that if if you want to be a team that is only gonna pay transfer fees in very rare
cases and you want to build the bulkier roster signing free agents that's great you have to go sign the free agents right um and and also you when you're signing a free agent unless you're signing a guy who sucks and nobody wants the agent of that free agent knows for a fact that you
would normally be paying a transfer fee and so they're gonna get a bigger signing on fee the wages are gonna be higher so it's not like you're going out and signing a guy for exactly what their last contract was right like your your pain agencies you're paying signing on fees your pain
bonuses your your your paying a higher inflated wage um and you can still get good value for your money doing it that way but this idea that paying transfer fees is this huge waste of money because you don't have to do it if you sign free agents I think is a little silly it's a very dated way
of yeah evaluating this stuff yeah I think the days of when you're gonna say tomorrow Rosala is Haiti want to come train with us and we'll see if you stick and then he ends up being your MVP uh those that that doesn't happen anymore it that hasn't been a case in a moment for a while um
yeah LFC struck gold with Kai Kamara but there also LFC he's getting great service he's and he's there as a placeholder right like it's just very rare that moves like that hit it and uh yeah I mean I you know I'm very much on the team that transfer fees the the amount
of transfer fees that you pay in transfer fees is does not correlate to winning I think every like I think that's impossible to ignore um you can spend transfer fees badly you can spend a ton of money on transfer fees without without it turning into results but as Jeremiah has said a lot I
think you have to spend something like you can't just go bargain bent hunting and expect to win and yeah it's you know it sucks man um I'm hoping that that maybe the the organizational thinking on this changes um I think coming to the realization that not wanting to use a buyout
wasn't really a respect thing which is kind of how I understood it for a while that it was like hey we don't treat our guys like that but I know we just don't want to do it that was really kind of a turning point with how I felt about about the situation and um because even if I think we don't
want to disrespect our club legends by doing that even if I think maybe that's not that's missed guidance in some ways it's admirable but if it's like no we just don't want to do it we just don't want to pay him to go away that's that's a different thing so uh yeah it's um I'm hoping they
reevaluate some of this stuff in the offseason yeah and I they can reevaluate it now so it can be yeah I hope they reevaluate some of this stuff in time for the offseason that's you're right that's a much better that's a much better approach yeah and it's and it's not like
Raoul would have dealt this respected because he would get to go somewhere that he could theoretically start and maybe also I don't think Raoul needs a lot of help to feel disrespected no and and yeah to that point he already feels disrespect whether that's right or wrong I can't possibly be the judge on that but um um like all right so I've been for two years now I've been this proponent of this idea that Garth did things with the roster to position the roster to win
concaf champions league and that that would be there would be residual effects to that yeah yeah and I know everybody is exhausted of hearing that talking point however he did that with the plan to get the team out of that situation and right before the offseason where theoretically that
plan would have started he left yeah so and I doubt he left the blueprint behind um because that would be crazy because you're going to a competitor in the same league um and I like I have a lot of sympathy for Craig Weibull in the sense that he came into like like an escape room and he has to
find his way out of it but and then I also am sympathetic to the fact that the conditions have probably changed clearly yeah the way that the ownership is talking about spending on the roster but I don't care who's faulted is at this point like the the it's the same team for like four years
right and if you look at everybody else in mls everybody else including San Jose who is like historic like very bad right now this isn't a conversation for like transfers just for transfers sake it's like you got to try to do something to try to do something you know yeah and not doing not
doing something is a choice and it's the it is the worst choice in this situation yeah I would say that um I don't necessarily blame anyone for the way this season is gone and for the signings they made and the decisions they made because I do think there were a lot of reasons to think this team
would be better than they are the day let big injuries obviously have hurt things a lot what I'm frustrated by is that the response to it has not been different you know um and that doesn't necessarily mean they have to blow everything up mid season and go out and do something crazy
it's just the way they've been talking about things um you know some of the rumblings we've heard about transfer budgets and things like that I just don't understand how you can look at this and think yeah we'll be able to we'll be able to figure this out without some serious investment um and
I don't think like there are a lot of things about the quarter this team that I like right like Jordan Morris Christian Aldon uh Jackson Reagan all guys that are going to be useful to you know good players for the for the next few years like you can build a championship team around
those guys within a window of a few years but it can't just be those guys it can't just be those guys in Russ Nack and like you have to have a difference maker or two and uh because I really do think that that's what like this team is not that far away from being right um it's just they don't
have that top end I think if this team still has twenty nineteen row radius they're probably in the hunt right but they they just they don't they don't have a guy that can take over games uh and they don't you know if they don't seem willing to to go get them at this stage so and something that can
happen when you're not constantly like adding to a team is players can get worse yeah you know we've had conversations about new who this season yay mar Alex Rodon Christian Rodon Jordan Morris Raul Ruides Albert Russ Nack Jell Paulo Leo Chu Stefan Fra like every man on this
roster there's been a conversation about like maybe they're not as good as they were and that's why you need to constantly kind of be refreshing the locker room basically for lack of a better term because a new player can come in in a position and ignite like for instance if we had
like a comparable left a right back right or left back for that matter that wasn't just a kid like Alex Rodon could theoretically take on that challenge and be like I need to get better to keep my starting job yeah every like pretty much every position on the field you know exactly
who would be starting if it was like a quote unquote MLS Cup final and it's just kind of like yeah you probably have a conversation about every single one of those players and there maybe let's say five to 15 20% worse than they were last season yeah and it's just kind of like
well there's nobody coming over their shoulder to like challenge them to get better and then on the flip side you're not giving any of these players new ideas or new players to work with like like we have the conversation about about Rita knew who earlier like
there are different combinations of different players when you add players via transfers that unlock certain skill sets in players that you didn't know existed before yeah and they're just continually like I've grown very sympathetic to Brian Spencer this season because
like it's the it's the same players it's the same ideas and he just has to like make it work and it is working kind of yeah and I think he is trying to do different things I think he is trying to set the team up differently and trying to encourage in the play in different
ways but you know it's it's they've been together playing a certain way for so long that it's going to be tricky to do that and I think to your point I don't think it's any accident that after Alex Roldon got hurt Christian moved to right back and was playing really well there that when
Alex came back and he got a chance to start again he has been a better player I don't think it's any accident that Roel Rodriguez coming on off the bench when he's pissed off about losing a starting job looks like a different player I don't think it's any accident that when Jordan Morris gets the
opportunity to move back to the to the nine where he wanted to be and he has something to prove that he looks like a different player like I do think that these guys need things to motivate them and whether that's roster turnover internal competition whatever it is you know I think you're
right that they've they've got to have some more of that and they're they're just not getting it right now yeah and it's it this is the type of situation that like can kind of compound on itself so like you go you go one window without doing anything that's that's a certain tone and
then two or three more windows after that it's like it's a thing that can get exponentially what like we just talked about the galaxy they experienced this too although they never went two or three transfer windows like the founders have like this where they just compounded the issue
more and more and more and that's my kind of worry is that like this eventually like they just kind of fade into this obscurity of like just being an okay yeah team you know like just kind of being like a like I don't I don't even know what the example would be like
Houston or something I don't know yeah that that fade in the mediocrity where you can you know get hot one year and make a run and look like a good team but generally you're just kind of there and you're not bad that's so much worse than just being bad because being bad either
it encourages it forces you to put up or shut up as an owner as a GM as a coach or whatever right to say look this team sucks and this isn't tenable we can't keep doing this something has to change or to say we're just gonna be shitty and people can check out you know now obviously nobody wants that
but still at least you at least you have a decision to make right whereas when you're mediocre and occasionally good for long stretches of time it's just like becomes part of the background and yeah it's it's the worst it's the worst thing to be boring and and you know the New York Red Bulls
yeah yeah you may make the playoffs 16 years in a row or whatever but right what the last meaningful memorable thing you did the the two most important players from that team are on MLS 360 now it's like yeah what and and I feel like that that's where the sounders are headed and less like some very
significant recalculations happen with the way that they do things yeah that is a bummer of a note to end it on but I think it's a good note to end it on thank you Mark for joining me sorry that this was kind of a bummer of an episode but you know we're used to it at this point I want to think
our listeners are subscribers and of course full pull lines for their wonderful support Jeremiah should be back next week hopefully we'll have something a little more fun to talk about maybe assigning maybe maybe one over the galaxy maybe not we'll see but thanks for listening as always I'm Aaron Kepo signing off for Mark and for Lickit and we'll catch you next time we love you let's win another one