How The West Will Be Won with Soccerwise's David Gass

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Welcome back to Nos Adietis on the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. Today is Wednesday, May 6th, and we are joined by David Goss of SoccerWise. And kickback is it kickback soccer media or is kickback K S Yes. Kickback Soccer media. Say it yourself, you didn't even know. It'cause we call ourselves kickback me. You know you know why? Because someone messaged me the other day and said, Hey, by the way, you've been saying this wrong. It's this. And so now I'm worried that I've been saying it wrong.

And you repeated it back to me and then I said it wrong again. But yes, that is who I am, that is where I come from. My confusion is not shocking. I can tell you very little sometimes about the places that I am located in. So Yeah. I feel less bad for not knowing it right off jump. But part of why I wanted to have you on part of why I'm having you on is because we are

We have we've talked about this on your show, but we haven't really introduced this to our re our listeners yet. But Kickback and Sound at Heart are getting together and and doing some some partnerships and and this is part of that. We're gonna be hearing a lot a lot more from you going forward. But I don't know, you wanna say anything about this uh from your perspective?

Yeah. So I one, I'm super excited. We talked about it on sort of our release show that we ran on our side of things, talking about what we're both building and and how excited we are to sort of do some of it together. Um, and I think for people, if you like major league soccer, if you like NWSL, we are a platform where we are trying to cover those leagues.

as much as possible. So every Monday, Matt Doyle, who everyone's familiar with, Tom Bogart and Andrew Weeby are on with me to talk about the weekend and sort of get you up to date for people on the West Coast. Like that show is in your feed by seven, eight A. M.

Um, so kind of like immediate of here's the big storylines, here's what's going on. And then on the NWSL side, me and Jordan Angeli do the same thing every Tuesday. And then we have a a third show every week on the soccer wise side of things. And I think for us it was what Sound at Heart does covers a team and a market as well, or I'd say better than anyone else in our landscape. And so I think many people Love.

the work that you guys are doing and we're trying to help supplement that at the league level and say, Hey, if you're really passionate about these teams and you want to know the atmospheres around them, where do they sit in the national hierarchy? Who else is in the conversation? Sort of as well some of the trends like

On the show this week, we talked about um we had an interview with a technical director from Mexico, and it really became clear to me that the U-22 initiative in MLS has been a boon for Liga MX. because League MX has too much pressure to test young guys and normally they go and buy veterans from Argentina, Colombia and Brazil. And now that has become

the Pedro Vites of the world. That has become the Brian Gutierrez's of the world. It's obviously become the Danny Levas as well, but a little bit different. And we talked as well about the Mexican Born MLS and US raised players who have gone down there. So if you're thinking about these soccer things or these wider trends,

We think we're a good place to come and enjoy them. Um, we love soccer. We love the ways it connects everyone. So um yeah, that's sort of our little pitch to come join us. Uh we've got a soccer-wise show three times a week. We've also got a lot of World Cup coverage. that we are doing. So we are learning a lot. Did research about the difference between Bosnians and Croatians today, which was a long

Situation and went well, trying to pronounce Czech names, learning about Turkey and DR Congo. So uh we're having a lot of fun over there too. Yeah, and I will just say that if you were a fan of extra time, you will be very happy, I think, with soccer wise. It is almost literally extra time, uh almost once a week, I suppose. Yep. But it is Uh it's it's remarkable. It it if you like me were a regular listener and missed the energy that extra time used to bring.

I think soccer wise is a really easy entry point for you and and hopefully people will continue to find you guys and continue to listen. Uh but before uh this is not just to talk about

initiatives. I did want to pick your brain a little bit about what's going on in the Western Conference. And that's a lot what we will probably be talking about in the future. Kind of like what I used to do with Matt a lot last year or other assorted guests

But we we did a show called How the West Will Be Won. And we would focus on Western conference teams and and do stuff there. But this is a particularly good time, I think, to start doing this again because the Sounders have three home games against some of the other mostly other contenders in the West as and then they finish out the pre World Cup portion of the season with a road game against LAFC. And the first of these games is

I I suppose it's not fair to call them a contender anymore. They have fallen on hard times. San Diego FC seem to be playing very much the same way that they have been they were playing last year. It's almost the same personnel that they had last year. But they are mired right now in

a nine match on a winless streak across all competitions. Eight they've gone eight matches in league play without a win. This is wild from a team that really does like if you look at the numbers, doesn't seem to be That different from the one that was, you know, looking like even early this season when they beat when they beat uh Pumas, it was like oh. Who cares about a sophomore slump? But anyway, what what do you what can we say about San Diego?

I think you look at a team that um has a true identity, which helps you sort of stay on the rails, uh, but a very thin group. And there's like There w there was a little bit of injury luck last year, but not a ton. Like they had injuries. They were able to supplement it at times. A mal Pellegrino coming in, like a veteran player. They got on the cheap because someone else was paying his salary in San Jose to get off of him.

They they did that a few times last year. They brought Luca Bambino in. They lost brought Oscar Verhoven in. Like they brought a lot of young players in and different pieces to help supplement things. But it was still a very thin team that was reliant on like a few big pieces.

And it hasn't really been injuries this year. I think it's been exhaustion. Like there is only so long you can ride that. And we're gonna talk, I think, about San Jose as well. And they're experiencing that right now in the middle of one season. So I think there's that. I and I think that's added with They got a Liga MX team in the first round of Conke Calf. I will still call it C C L because that's the name I've chosen. Better.

It does it sounds better. It flows. It feels good. I get it's not the only name it's ever had, but it's the one I've decided to land on. Um, they had Pumas and then they had Toluca. So you've got that weighing on you as well, which is all stuff that they didn't experience last year. And so I think all of that has kind of pushed together. And I think there are like small margins in games where

with the talent they have and the way they play, they want a lot of those small margin moments. And when they've lost them this year, It's been a bit of an avalanche, and that is key in the red cards that they have picked up. So um five straight games in which they received a red card. Chris McVie had three straight, but they were in two different competitions himself, and a lot of that is

Recovering defenders in awkward moments because passes that were perfect last year are slight an inch off. Pressing moments that were really good last year, they're late to or they don't close the right way. And they play an open game and they expose themselves. And I think this year. There's been those mistakes. And then there's also the comfort level. And the comfort level this year hasn't been we know how to shut it down. I think it's like,

Teams are confident that the openings will be there. You look at like the way RSL played them, where RSL is like, okay, it's gonna feel intense. It's gonna be awkward at times. We're not gonna have a lot of the ball. But we can guarantee we're gonna get our three big chances when we get out of this game. And if we take them, we're good. And I think last year it was this unknown as you face them for the first and second time in the first.

I will say that RSL game, the especially the one on the road or the one at San Diego was a lot of fun. I mean it was it was a wide open game and you know it's it's interesting'cause you look back at the season that That San Diego's had this year. And through the first three weeks of MLS, they looked like

gang they they looked like they were not missing a beat. They had three shutouts. They had an eight zero goal difference. They had just come off beating Pumas. But then and then they they followed that up with a win against Toluca. But maybe there were warning signs there because they gave up two penalties and they picked up two red cards, even though they won three two. And I think at the time we were all really focused on

Sort of the broader narrative, which is San Diego just beat Toluca 3-2 despite two red cards and giving up two penalties. This team is like a a runaway train. And I guess maybe we just didn't see that the the track. It was coming off the tracks at the same time. Cause the next game they tried saying uh FC Dallas 3-3 and then it's just been You know, it's it's just been really rough ever since then. Like you said, a lot of red cards, but also just giving up a whole lot of goals.

And I will say though, like the way I would put it is those First few opponents made sense. So Dallas is Low possession, super efficient. Petz Armusa, I think might be the most efficient player in major league soccer. If you give him three half openings, you'll get a goal every game. And that's how Dallas is built. And so that was that one made sense. San Jose has become the same.

as well this year. They played Minnesota, who don't want any of the ball, and the Minnesota game was classic, exactly what you'd expect. Minnesota scores against the run of play. They get a red card. They score against the run of play and they hold a two-one lead. It's these last few games where it's been more confusing, where you look at it and say, These are teams they should be. These are I mean the Portland home game was pretty to lose two to one at home to Portland it's

It's tough. And even in the game I'm watching, like My mindset in that game as watching it is like, oh yeah, Portland are outclassed. Portland don't belong in this game. That was a 96-minute um set piece. That got them the win. But even then, San Diego last year would not have been tied with Portland going into stoppage time at home. So it does feel like.

As it catches up to them and a lack of confidence maybe happens all at the same time coming out of that rough start, they are a team that is probably limping towards the World Cup break. Saying, like, can we just get there? Now, it's interesting that on our show on Monday, Andrew Weeby talked about he was in San Diego on for the Saturdays game and he chatted with Tyler Heaps, their sporting director. And for the first time, Tyler Heaps was very explicit about

It doesn't matter what happens with Chick-y Lozano. We have another DP spot that we can use because they haven't used all of the cash in the two four two setup. So they can convert back to a three DP, three U twenty two initiative setup. And so whether Chucky's on the team or not, they'd have a third D P spot. And it sounds very clear that they're going to use it. And I think it's an acknowledgement from them that this has not gone exactly how they expected.

and that they have expectations to be more competitive and they're gonna try and do some work in the summer to get

And w uh we'll move on to San Jose uh before we get too far, but As far as I understand it with the two four the two four setup versus the three three setup. Is there's not really an advantage to playing the first half of the season in the two four unless you're planning on seeing it out as a two four. And so going from a two four to a three three is essentially acknowledging that things have not gone to plan. Right. I mean Yeah, you don't...

Save money. Right. If you had gone three three and not signed the third D P It would pretty much be the same because my understanding is they've used probably a million in allocation out of the four and that keeps them under the threshold. But I think that's discretionary allocation that they could just access anyway as discretionary allocation.

Uh well it's a fascinating story. Hopefully they wait another week to uh turn things around. But like the sounders, I know the sounders have been saying all the right stuff. I mean they they're basically saying like look We do not look at this as a team that is on an eight game right uh winless run. We look at this as a team that beat the crap out of us in their first meeting when we played them in San Diego and we hung on for dear life to be one zero at home.

And so the Sounders I don't think are looking at all as if this is a a a a struggling team. They look at it a as a team that is effectively the same one that gave'em all sorts of trouble last year. Uh but then it doesn't get it any easier. Uh i in fact the biggest test of the Sounder season I would say, I suppose maybe

I guess you could quibble. The d they did play San Jose at home, but there's this kind of a they play San Jose on the road and San Jose is, I think, the hottest team in MLS, right? Isn't that and maybe the best team in MLS? Yeah. Yeah. They are a team that is as cohesive, I think, as any team we see with the way they play together. Now

They have started to run into the exhaustion issues that you'd expect because they've been an open cup and they've taken it very seriously and they don't have the deepest team. And so we've seen a couple players, including Nico Tsecuris, who's been central to everything they've done. pull up with some muscle injuries over the last few games. Um, but they, I can tell you from the people in San Jose I've talked to, they are ecstatic about this weekend because they play the White Caps.

And they consider this like their big battle at the top of the Western Conference. I don't know the last time they've played a one two game this deep into a season. So they have been twenty twelve I would think would be Probably. And it has been the last time. And they've been fully like acknowledging how big of a start this has been for them. But they are starting to run into the physical wall of they are the highest pressing team in the league.

Um, they play high in transition and it's a huge deal for them. So they they they're must watch. Like they're fully entertaining. They're playing a lot of young guys, they're playing a lot of Americans.

Um, we keep joking about it a bit on the show. They are basically playing a super draft team across their back line. Um, and they are playing Preston Judd as a center forward and Nico Tsakiris as a ten, and Nico Tsakiris is playing as one of the top five number tens in major league soccer right now and Bruce Arena's riding it.

Yeah, and and I don't know how much of it is a bit, but Matt has kept saying that uh Nico Sakurist maybe is a dark horse for the national team for the World Cup. I don't know if this is a like that feels like a bit to me, but maybe it's not. This one of the things w so we're doing a US MNT segment every week that runs on Thursday, so you can listen to it um this week. Uh we talked a bit about Paraguay. We're gonna start digging into the opponents.

And we have talked a lot about Xavier Gozo and Audrey Mimeti and Julian Hall and Nico Tsakiris. And then the reports came out this week from Doug McIntyre that. Pachettino's assistants are going to the LAFC Dallas game this weekend. They're going to RSL, um, and they're going to see NYCFC crew. And there are like some obvious players in there, but like We're only an injury away in a lot of spots.

from someone who's not a part of the pool getting into the pool. And Xavier Goso is the most obvious one because he's a wing back and you can isolate his position and he creates chances and he's playing with confidence and like you just throw it in there. But Uh obviously we hear the Jackson Reagan clamors and the conversation all.

Well you guys had a whole great segment on Jackson Reagan that I uh I very much appreciated because it I do feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes when it comes to Jackson Reagan. Is here is this domestic center back who has whose whole game is predicated on his passing, who has gotten who's I understand is not maybe the

literal best center back uh defensive center back in the league, but he is a solid defensive center back. I we've seen him cut out basically the mistakes that he had been making. Like he's played nearly flawless this year. Yeah. And the fact that he can't get uh a sniff from the national team is really weird. I want to say it's a timing thing, right? Where it's like Potch came in and landed on his guys and it wasn't the right time, but it doesn't make any sense because

Gotten here, Jackson Reagan's been playing the whole time. And since he's gotten here, he's tried like 500 guys. And I know. Chris Richards. Right. Well, from his point of view, like, so the some of the names, right? He started Tristan Black he started with Tristan Blackman as an attempt. You get it. Tristan Blackman is an elite profile. Like Bob Bradley said to us when they drafted him, he is the most impressive athlete he's ever drafted.

The issues Tristan Blackman has are obvious. He falls asleep during games and all this stuff. And it's what happened at the national team level. So you could understand where it started. The the issue is that it never got to a guy like Jackson Regan. One of the other names that comes in here, which we actually mentioned this week as well, is Keaton Park.

Keith Parks has been one of the five best American players. Now the difference is Parks has always been hurt. And so like in those gaps where you'd think he would have gotten a call up, maybe he would have been hurt. And then it just happens where it's like, well, it's just not going to happen for this guy.

And they're 26 or they're 27. And it's like, well, they've never been called up, so they're not a national team player. And there's no world in which that's the logic that things should work. They're not a national team player until you call them up. And there's like nowhere to bridge that gap for it. And it's really frustrating. And it will be fascinating'cause you you come back to San Jose. They're starting two super draft picks at center back.

They have been starting Jamar Ricketts, who's been incredible. Uh, and they've been starting Preston Judd up top and then obviously some youth players and Usuni Useni Buddha as well, who's not American. But like Reed Roberts uh and Daniel Mooney at center back. M Mooney is the fastest recorded player in school. Or fastest recorded defender, but he's one of the five fastest players. Yeah.

So, you know, went to Indiana, like great profile, all this stuff. And it just at some point, a national team manager has to look at things and say, if this person's in their prime and they're good, why is that not the person I'm calling up? And I don't know when we crossed that.

You know, it's it feels a lot like the chat. Okay, good. Listen, I I wouldn't be shocked if Jackson Reagan made the national team and wasn't good enough. Like it wouldn't Neit. But it's shocking to not find out.

Yeah. Right. I think that's what's so frustrating. And and it's it feels similar to sort of like the Chad Marshall situation where although Chad Marshall had been a a high level prospect and he was getting national some national team attention early on in his career and then something happened.

I I've never really understood what exactly happened, but he just sort of fell out of the picture in the national team and then it was Then other guys were hot names and then And he just you know, even though he was one of the best defenders in MLS until he basically retired, yeah. I mean he's one of the reasons all of his teams went to MLS Cups every year. Yeah. Um and meanwhile Tim Reem is getting caps at forty five.

Well, so that the conversation we had in the US clip is so Reem hasn't played in four and a half weeks. Miles Robinson hasn't really played. So they're probably one injury away from the center back pool pulling someone in who is not. has not been around. The options the US has is with this wide center back setup, they can play Alex Freeman, they can play Joe Scaley. Matt has um sort of championed to play Jedi Robinson there.

So they don't need to play a center back, which is where there's a little bit of loose play. But the combo we had when we were talking about the games they're going to this week is like Aaron Long has played three starts. None of them have gone past sixty-five minutes. Are they watching him when they're at this game?

trying to find a name. I mean, who is the next guy? Yeah, I guess so. And so that's where we're at right now, which is it's you know, it could be someone I I I mean, it could be Noakai Banks if they give him a guarantee or he wants to or whatever. But like there aren't really a ton in Europe that we're not talking about that haven't gotten shots. Austin Trusty's been pulled in. I think he's probably got a good shot. Mark McKenzie is, I think I can't zip me and come on down.

It might be. Like and and genuinely, I think all of these people are still in the convo. And I think all the way back to Nico Tekiris and whatever, I think there will be a name on the roster, especially because it's 26. that we have no idea as of today is realistic to be on that roster. And we're probably just one injury away.

And and to be fair, that's not that atypical. You know, Hercules Gomez essentially came out of yeah, I don't think he had been called into the national team until he was suddenly on the World Cup roster. Uh that uh who was the RSL guy from that same Finally. Robbie Finley. Which was affected by Charlie's injury that they needed other players. At the time though, it felt like the pool was a little less professional and locked in, where nowadays it feels like

You know, we know who everyone is and we got data on everyone. And so it's crazy now to think unless it's an eighteen year old who has popped through and never had an opportunity, it's wild to at this point to think that someone could be that person, but I do think that's the state of the pool in like a bunch of these positions.

Yeah. No, I I I I agree with you. It's it is kind of wild. But uh well I know you're running short on time. Anything that we should mention about LA Galaxy, which is the final game in this homestand, is there any like is there this is just a team that is Still like Basically missing Ricky Pouge. Right. Yes. And it's gotten worse now. With Zhao Klaus out through the World Cup break, he was a pretty good minor solve for them, which was he put Peck and Pain still back into their best roles.

And with him out, Pain Still's now playing center forward where he's not very good. And now you've lost his threat on the wing and Peck doesn't have the same type of player to link up with. Peck's at his best. When he gets isolated out wide and when he comes inside, it's a give and go. And now he's running past people and he can shoot or pass at pace. And without that guy, which Payne still's not because he's not a natural center forward.

Both of them are back to out of sorts. And if you watch the last few games, they're kind of in a like Marco Royce gonna have a great game every five games. And on that day you're in trouble. And outside of that, they are extremely beatable the way they have been since Ricky got injured. Yeah. Uh and they're not a horrible they're definitely not a horrible team, but they have they're not they're definitely not the The team everyone I think.

They're better than they were last year because of Glessness and Hack and the guys they've added, but again, they haven't put a lot of those guys in a great role to be. successful. And so there are like still some huge question marks about the decisions they're making, even though the personnel decisions in the roster has gotten a lot better. Well, David, this was a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to being able to do this more often. Yep. Uh it's uh

It's great being a I'm I'm excited about this partnership. I think it's gonna be an a value add, uh, to use a corporate term for everyone involved. Uh and, you know, uh I'm excited about it. So I hope people are tuning in to Sue Soccer Wise. It's obviously on YouTube. You can watch it. You can listen to it on Sirius even. And of course it's on uh all the normal podcast uh feeds that you might get. But uh David, thank you for joining me.

I'm excited for another excuse to go to Seattle'cause I'll say well I have to go So yeah. I'm I'm I'm excited for any excuse like that. I will probably say twenty Twenty nineteen final is up there, but CCL final in twenty twenty one. Especially coming out of COVID and not having been around stuff and we hung out. Or George and Dragon. Yeah.

Yeah, hanging out at George and Dragon was like one of the best nights of my entire life. I could not believe how engaged the fan base was just with the team and everything. But walking to the stadium the day of the game. is like standalone. I've been to World Cups. I've been to big time qualifiers around the world. It is standalone, I think, my favorite soccer experience. Just walking to the building.

And by the time I got there, I was like, this thing's over. There is no chance. And I'll tell this before I go, which I think I've said before. We were down on the field um towards the end of the game. And I I you could tell me better. Maybe Roldon scores to like totally ice it. Oh no, it was Ru Ruy Diaz and Nico. Nico scored the last goal.

So he scores and Jordan Morris had like gone like gotten to the end line to save the ball and they score and everyone comes over and jumps on him and I'm behind the boards down in front of the supporters group and Jordan looks over and winked at me. अग्याजाजाजाजाजाजाजाजाज

We won the fucking CCL. Like whatever. And it was what was going through my head at the time where I was standing there being like, it finally'cause I've been to a couple of those games. I had gone down to Guala Hara for when TFC was there. Like that's my favorite thing, is MLS First League of Mexico.

And it was like, whoa, this is sick. So um and then Schmetzer cursed on air afterwards, which is always great. And it was a good night all together. So anytime I can get to Seattle is always a positive. And of course we got one of the great soccer memes of all time, of Andrew. Yeah. Offing his uh cork. His cork, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. As he is known to do. And we love his two children dearly. Ha ha ha.

But uh well David, thank you so much for doing this. I look forward to doing it more often. Uh but yeah, this was uh a revival of how the West Will Be Won. Uh on No Sadietis, which is part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network, signing off for David Gas, I'm Jeremiah O'Shan. We'll catch you next time. Yeah, let's go. Vi PAG-produkter ger det alltid sju års garanti. Det är tillräckligt länge för att dricka 5000 koppar kaffe på jobbet.

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