We examine perhaps the most important piece of the complex puzzle of the Hartman case: what Sophie wrote about it in her journals. We’re joined by Dr. James Hamilton, an MBP expert with a PhD in clinical psychology, to walk us through some of Sophie’s most chilling journal entries collected in the case files. We also look at Sophie’s disturbing internet search history during the time of C’s alleged Central precocious puberty (CPP) diagnosis. After being separated from Sophie, M and C are placed ...
Feb 13, 2025•1 hr 3 min•Season 5Ep. 7
Sophie insists to police and others that the real problem isn’t that she’s abusing her daughter but that Seattle Children’s–a world class pediatric hospital–simply doesn’t understand her daughter’s rare condition: Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood. But according to police interviews, very few people in C’s orbit ever witnessed an episode, and if they did, they described symptoms that, alone, are not indicative of AHC. We also hear snippets of interviews stating that Sophie often presented AHC ...
Feb 06, 2025•1 hr 11 min•Season 5Ep. 6
It's pub day!! The Mother Next Door is officially out in the world. Thank you to everyone for all of your support! For our amazing podcast listeners, we have a very special treat for you: a 40 MINUTE exclusive excerpt of the audiobook! Enjoy! *** Order The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy https://read.macmillan.com/lp/the-mother-next-door-9781250284273/ Catch Andrea and Mike at their Seattle Book Launch Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/andrea-dunlop-and-mike-webe...
Feb 04, 2025•40 min
In 2020, the Hartmans grow even more isolated as Covid hits: Sophie pulls C out of school citing worsening health and breaks with the church community who’ve been supporting her and her daughters. Concerns for abuse grow as Sophie begins to push a new narrative that C has central precocious puberty (CPP), a condition that causes the body to go through puberty prematurely, After making an initial DCF report in 2019 and tracking Sophie’s demands for increasingly invasive procedures: Seattle Childr...
Jan 30, 2025•52 min•Season 5Ep. 5
From corporate sponsorships to fundraisers large and small, Sophie Hartman was an expert at raising money for C’s various medical devices, mobility aids, and specialized treatments. But were any of these things actually needed? We hear audio from the police interviews of Sophie’s next door neighbors and a school aide who note that they rarely saw C in her wheelchair. We also take a closer look at C’s diagnoses with friend-of -the-show (our not-so-secret Florida doctor) Dr. Bex, joins us briefly ...
Jan 23, 2025•45 min•Season 5Ep. 4
Immediately after moving with C and M from Zambia to Seattle, WA, Sophie starts bringing C to various doctors, reporting severe health issues. Just three days after C’s third birthday, she is diagnosed with Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood (AHC), a rare, one-in-a-million neurological disorder. Simultaneously, Sophie enrolls her older daughter, M, in an elite gymnastics program. We speak to some of the moms who knew Sophie from the gym to get a better picture of Sophie and the two girls. They ...
Jan 16, 2025•50 min•Season 5Ep. 3
In the second episode of season 5, Andrea dives into how Sophie’s Evangelical Christian beliefs colored her worldview. From claiming that adopting a child from Zambia was God’s path for her life to allegedly performing an exorcism, Sophie’s faith is an integral part of this case. We hear from Dr. Lauren Turek, an Associate Professor of History at Trinity University in San Antonio, TX and author of To Bring the Good News to All Nations: Evangelical Influence on Human Rights and U.S. Foreign Relat...
Jan 09, 2025•56 min•Season 5Ep. 2
We begin the season by delving into Sophie Hartman’s 2016 memoir about her time in Zambia, Crowns of Beauty, where we learn about how a young woman from Michigan came to be the adopted mother of two Zambian girls by the age of 25. We learn about Sophie’s deep roots in evangelical Christianity and her state of mind prior to and during the adoptions of M and C; examining the way she portrays herself as both a martyr and savior. We’re also joined by Chad Goller-Sojourner, a performance artist and t...
Jan 02, 2025•45 min•Season 5Ep. 1
In this last bonus episode before our season 5 premiere next week, we’re airing Andrea’s conversation with Dr. Catherine Ayoub, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School, APSAC member, nurse practitioner, and counseling and consulting psychologist. Cathy tells listeners about her background and first encounter with Munchausen by Proxy. She and Andrea chat about the different groupings of perpetrators and the characteristics/background that may signal that an abuser can be rehabilitated. C...
Dec 26, 2024•1 hr 30 min
Season five of Nobody Should Believe Me tells the story of Sophie Hartman: a young, white midwestern evangelical missionary who travels to Zambia and comes home with two vulnerable sisters in her care. When she returns to the states, she lands far away from her family in Seattle, WA where she embarks on a medical odyssey with her younger daughter, C, reporting a variety of alarming symptoms: from chronic vomiting, to seizures, to days-long episodes of full-body paralysis. Eventually, C is diagno...
Dec 20, 2024•3 min
In the final part of our miniseries covering the Jesika Jones case, Andrea is once again joined by Detective Mike Weber, who shares the series of events from Jesika’s first bond violation through to her 60 year sentencing, from his perspective as law enforcement. He shares the differences in how seriously child abuse cases are taken when there’s a male vs female perpetrator, and the politics behind trying Medical Child Abuse cases in court. Andrea and Mike wrap up their conversation by talking a...
Dec 19, 2024•56 min
Welcome back to the 3rd installment of our 4-part series on the Jesika Jones case. In this episode, Andrea is wrapping up her conversation with Derek Jones. Derek recaps the fallout after Jesika’s lies finally start to unravel: the frustrating journey of working with the DA on the case, Jesika’s sentencing, and how his kids are doing today. Stay tuned for the final episode next week, where Andrea is once again joined by Detective Mike Weber. *** Links/Resources: Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new bo...
Dec 12, 2024•53 min
In the second episode of Andrea’s coverage of the Jesika Jones case, she’s joined by Derek Jones, Jesika’s then-husband. Derek bravely tells the story of how he and Jesika met, their home life, and the decline in their daughter's health. Talking to Derek gives listeners insight into the manipulative nature of perpetrators, not only with their victims, but also with everyone around them, and the mental toll of coming to terms with such a monumental breach of trust. Stay tuned for part 2 of their ...
Dec 05, 2024•56 min
This week on case files, Andrea is joined by Detective Mike Weber, a crimes against children investigator and long-time friend/contributor to the show, to discuss the Jesika Jones case. Detective Mike is called onto this case in mid-2022 after Jesika brings her 4 year old daughter into Cook Children’s Hospital multiple times for an alleged seizure disorder. As the case evolves, Mike learns just how compulsive an offender who is allowed to walk can truly be. *** Links/Resources: Preorder Andrea a...
Nov 27, 2024•1 hr 8 min
While the Nobody Should Believe Me team is hard at work on season 5, we’re revisiting the first episode of our third season, which covered the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Children's trial, also known as the Take Care of Maya Case. Next week, we have a brand new miniseries coming to your ears, so stay tuned. *** As the Maya Kowalski case heads to trial, we dig into the massive trove of documents about this case and begin to unpack what we know about what really happened during Maya Kowalski’s fa...
Nov 21, 2024•48 min
In this episode, Andrea and Dr. Bex discuss mitochondrial disorders, which Dr. Bex has seen first-hand in her pediatric patients, and their connection to medical child abuse, most notably in the Justina Pelletier case. Like most illnesses seen in Munchausen by Proxy cases, while there are tests that doctors run, mitochondrial disorders present challenges in distinguishing genuine cases because of the array of symptoms they present. They discuss how support groups and websites–while so important ...
Nov 14, 2024•1 hr 42 min
In the wake of this week's election results, Andrea shares a minisode with her thoughts on committing yourself to a fight that feels impossible. Want to suggest a non-profit for us to support? Drop us a line hello@nobodyshouldbelieveme.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Nov 08, 2024•6 min
Dr. Bex joins Andrea for the final installment of our Justina Pelletier miniseries. They pick up by giving an overview of the court case, and the eerie similarities to the Kowalski case. They chat about the experts who were brought in by both the Pelletiers and Boston Children’s, and the importance of looking into the background of expert witnesses. Dr. Bex and Andrea break down the connection between somatoform disorder and prolonged Medical Child Abuse, and how it may affect the recovery of th...
Nov 07, 2024•1 hr
In part 3 of our Justina Pelletier mini-series, Andrea and Beau pick up where part 2 left off, with the topic of mitoaction.org. They then get into the side story of Martin Gottesfeld, a hacker who did not know the family, but took on the mantle of saving Justina by hacking into the Boston Childrens’ system to pressure them into releasing her. Beau talks about the last time he was contacted by the Pelletiers, Lou Pelletier’s reaction to the media attention, and how Justina is doing currently. **...
Oct 31, 2024•49 min
On this show we talk a lot about how Munchausen by Proxy cases are covered in the media, and today we’re getting the inside scoop from the reporter who broke one of the most high profile MBP stories. Beau Berman began covering the Justina Pelletier case back in 2013 as a young reporter and watched over the years as the case evolved and got stranger and stranger. He tells Andrea about how the story came across his desk and the complexities of trying to keep the balance on both sides while dealing...
Oct 24, 2024•50 min
Case Files is back with the first episode of a multi-part series on the Justina Pelletier case. Andrea and Dr. Bex covered this case in the subscriber feed, but, due to popular demand, decided to bring it to the main podcast. Justina Pelletier was a 14-year-old girl whose hospitalization at Boston Children's Hospital sparked a significant legal and media frenzy. Andrea and Dr. Bex’s discussion covers the medical background of Justina's condition, including mitochondrial disease and somatoform di...
Oct 17, 2024•55 min
Welcome to the first episode of Case Files, our new series for episodes between seasons! Andrea, either solo or joined by guests, will be taking listeners through additional Munchausen by Proxy cases, updates on previously covered cases, and the broader societal impact of this form of child abuse. In this conversation, Andrea and Dr. Bex (our secret Florida doctor friend from season 3) delve into the growing popularity of ketamine usage and the public perception of the role that it played in the...
Oct 10, 2024•1 hr 25 min
Welcome to our Season 4 Mailbag Episode! We’re so excited to officially introduce our fabulous producer Myrriah Gossett, who works tirelessly behind the scenes to keep the many moving parts of Nobody Should Believe Me on track. Andrea and Myrriah reflect on their experiences reporting for season 4, ethically navigating survivor stories, and the considerations involved in sharing the intimate details of someone’s real life. They also address questions about the show’s coverage of dissociative ide...
Oct 03, 2024•1 hr 4 min
On this week’s unabridged interview from season 4, Andrea chats with trauma therapist Carly Ostler. The two of them dive into what complex trauma is, the difference between PTSD and complex PTSD, and the co-dependent nature of abusive families. Carly explains why abuse from parental figures affects survivors so deeply, as well as the complexity of grieving an abuser. * * * Links/Resources: Learn more about Carly: https://www.carlyostler.com/ Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medic...
Sep 26, 2024•55 min
This week, we are bringing you our full interview with Jade Miller, founder of Peer Support for Multiples and a multiple herself. This incredibly informative and demystifying conversation, goes into Jade’s journey to becoming a peer support mentor and the limitations of therapy for those with Dissociative Identity Disorder. Andrea and Jade also dive into practical ways to support those with DID, the spectrum of dissociation to multiples, and the realities of being a Multiple. * * * Links/Resourc...
Sep 19, 2024•48 min
We are working hard on season 5 of Nobody Should Believe Me, but in the meantime, we’re bringing you a series of unabridged interviews from the experts we talked to during the making of season 4! This week Andrea chats with Jackie Rodriguez, LMSW, who specializes in dissociative identity disorder and complex trauma. Jackie and Andrea discuss the complexities of DID and the stereotypes that have been exacerbated by popular media. Jackie talks through what therapy looks like for someone with DID a...
Sep 12, 2024•54 min
Law professor, nurse, and president of Munchausen Support, Bea Yorker, shares what first got her interested in working with Munchausen by proxy cases, and remembers the first time she was exposed to medical child abuse. She recounts how she first met Jo in the Munchausen by proxy Committee of the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children. Bea and Andrea talk through the positive psychological effects of peer support groups for those coping with trauma and how to create a safe space ...
Sep 05, 2024•1 hr 10 min
In our season four finale, we talk about what justice looks like for survivors of abuse and how to recover from the loss of an abusive parent. We examine the importance of confronting the reality of what happened as a crucial first step in a survivor’s healing and ask what feels like an impossible question–when the systems fail, as they so often do–what do you do about someone like Jo’s mom Donna? *** Links/Resources: Preorder Andrea's new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munc...
Aug 22, 2024•43 min•Season 4Ep. 10
In the aftermath of Donna’s death, Jo returns home to Hutchinson to plan their mother’s funeral and clean up her mess one final time. As Jo and their sister Crystal sort through the detritus of the filthy, overstuffed apartment where Donna spent her final days, they come across strange artifacts, including letter from Jo’s childhood self. We also talk to therapist and Complex PTSD specialist, Carly Ostler about the complexities of grieving for an abusive parent and why they can have an even stro...
Aug 15, 2024•45 min•Season 4Ep. 9
Just as Jo has made huge personal strides in the spring of 2023, Donna slides into a coma and Jo returns to Hutchinson to say what they will believe to be their final goodbyes. However, even Donna’s “deathbed” isn’t what it seems, and she ends up pulling through: leaving Jo to manage the complicated process of setting boundaries with their mother after yet another dramatic brush with death. Over the next year, Jo continues to thrive and heal their relationship with their sister: just in time for...
Aug 08, 2024•46 min•Season 4Ep. 8
