In the third and final installment of our exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, she shares her side of what happened in the Maya Kowalski case, revealing how perilous Maya’s situation truly was when she originally arrived at Johns Hopkins All Childrens in October of 2016. Dr. Sally Smith also reveals, for the first time, the details of the multi-million-dollar settlement with the Kowalski family and shares the impact that this case could have on medical providers and abused children going fo...
Jan 18, 2024•1 hr 22 min•Season 3Ep. 14
In the second part of our exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, we discuss how the media coverage of her reached a fever pitch and turned her life and career upside down. We explore how not only the Netflix film but a high-profile piece in New York Magazine rewrote the narrative of the Kowalski case and Dr. Smith’s involvement to cast her as a villain. We unpack the stories of the four other families in the Netflix film—featured as examples of “false allegations” made by Dr. Smith—and uncove...
Jan 11, 2024•1 hr 7 min•Season 3Ep. 13
In an exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, host Andrea Dunlop travels to Florida to speak to the embattled child abuse pediatrician about her life and work and the Maya Kowalski case that saw her cast as the villain of a Netflix film. We get an inside look into Dr. Smith’s groundbreaking career as one of America's first board-certified child abuse pediatricians. We learn what it was like to face some of the most difficult cases imaginable all while raising two children of her own. And we se...
Jan 04, 2024•41 min•Season 3Ep. 12
In this bonus episode, host Andrea interviews regular guest and friend of the show Jordyn Hope, a survivor of Munchausen by proxy abuse. Jo shares their personal story of revelations of abuse and recounts the emotional toll of constantly having to prove their own sickness. Andrea and Jo discuss the Maya Kowalski case and Jo provides insight into the parent-child dynamics, including the enmeshment, lack of boundaries, and parentification often seen in abusive situations. Andrea and Jo grapple wit...
Dec 28, 2023•1 hr 14 min
This week Andrea examines how the harrowing and complex story of the Maya Kowalski case turned into a pop culture moment, and spread dangerous misinformation in the process. We continue our conversation with Ethen Shapiro, lead attorney for Johns Hopkins All Childrens, about how the media coverage of this case got so out of hand and the risks it poses to doctors and children going forward. We take a deeper look at how entertainment reporter Caitlin Keating stumbled onto the story at her job at P...
Dec 21, 2023•48 min•Season 3Ep. 11
Just when we thought the endless saga of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens was over...it turns out it might only be beginning. In this episode, lead attorney for the Johns Hopkins All Childrens defense team, Ethen Shapiro, offers an insider's perspective on what happened in during the trial and what’s happened in the wake of it. Tina and Andrea discuss newly introduced evidence including Beata's requests to increase medications despite risks, Dr. Kirkpatrick's questionable diagnostic proces...
Dec 14, 2023•51 min•Season 3Ep. 10
With the jury's stunning $242 million verdict in favor of the Kowalski family, host Andrea Dunlop looks at why this case has struck such a nerve on both sides of the political spectrum. She examines why some mothers accused of medical child abuse are viewed as monsters and others as martyrs. Andrea looks at the charges against social worker Cathy Bedy the woman who became the face of the child welfare bureaucracy during the Maya Kowalski case and examines her testimony. We also seek out answers ...
Nov 30, 2023•46 min•Season 3Ep. 9
As we continue to process the far-reaching implications of the shocking verdict in the Kowalski case, we take a closer look at Maya Kowalski’s testimony and what we know about her. She’s emerged as a divisive figure in the case: alternately being cast as a brave heroine or as a manipulator. But given the evidence of her possible abuse and the questionable motives of the adults surrounding her, the truth is far more nuanced. We bring in survivor Jordyn Hope and child and adolescent psychiatrist D...
Nov 22, 2023•1 hr 15 min•Season 3Ep. 8
Andrea checks in with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach hours after the Kowalski verdict comes down. They talk about the judge’s decision to disallow testimony from the defense on medical child abuse, what happened with this jury, and the chances for a possible appeal for JHAC. With the medical community reeling from this news, Jonathan and Andrea unpack the dire consequences of the verdict and wonder — what now? *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @...
Nov 16, 2023•35 min
Andrea and special guest Bex (aka our Florida pediatrcian friend) process the shocking verdict in the Maya Kowalski trial. After 9 weeks of testimony, the jury awarded the Kowalski family nearly $300 million in damages from Johns Hopkins All Children's Hospital. Bex shares her perspective as a pediatrician on how this verdict will impact the medical community and reporting of suspected child abuse cases. They discuss the implications for social workers and hospital staff who stood up and testifi...
Nov 10, 2023•25 min
With a verdict in the case days away, host Andrea Dunlop unpacks some of what’s happened so far in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach. They analyze the dueling opening statements, consider what each side is likely to look for in jurors, and which of the charges—if any—might be most viable. Andrea shares insights on the lawyers after watching their interactions in court. She also weighs in on the extensive medical testimony so far, inc...
Nov 07, 2023•1 hr 7 min•Season 3Ep. 7
As the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial barrels forward, new information comes to light each day about what really happened to Maya Kowalski during her time in the hospital. In part 2 of The Believers, Andrea digs into the testimony from the doctors at the center of the case and finds medical professionals at odds. Did Maya really have CRPS or was something else going on? With trial watchers choosing sides and digging in: what does the evidence actually tell us? Andrea also talks mor...
Nov 03, 2023•57 min•Season 3Ep. 6
In today’s episode, Andrea seeks an outside perspective on the controversial Maya Kowalski case. Laura Richards, host of Crime Analyst and cohost of the Real Crime Profile podcast, joins Andrea to talk through the complexities and contradictions of the Netflix documentary. The conversation reveals just how polarized interpretations of this case have become. With the verdict in the Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens looming, today we look at what’s been revealed by the both the vast amount of...
Nov 02, 2023•1 hr•Season 3Ep. 6
Host Andrea Dunlop and lead producer Tina Nole dive into listener feedback from season 2 of Nobody Should Believe Me. Addressing questions of gender issues and potential sexism around medical child abuse accusations, Andrea’s guest appearance on Real Crime Profile, pro-cop allegations and more. Plus, Andrea and Tina fill listeners in on what to expect for season 3 and beyond. *** To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcast s or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to ...
Oct 26, 2023•23 min
In the flattened version of the Maya Kowalski story that has dominated the headlines, Beata Kowalski is a mother who fell prey to age-old biases against women. This story attaches itself to the well-documented reality that women are all too often not believed when it comes to their own pain, the stories of their own lives, and their professional opinions. Beata is cast as the martyr in Netflix’s “Take Care of Maya” and two other women, Cathy Beady and Dr. Sally Smith, are cast as the villains. T...
Oct 19, 2023•37 min•Season 3Ep. 5
Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. Beata Kowalski’s tragic death by suicide in January of 2016 is at the center of the $220 million lawsuit Jack Kowalski has filed against Johns Hopkins All Childrens hospital. But did Beata really take her own life to free her daughter from the hospital keeping her captive as the plaintiff claims? As with everything in this story, the truth is much more complicated. The narrative told...
Oct 12, 2023•49 min•Season 3Ep. 4
In our third episode, we look at a central piece of the story that was left unfinished at the time of Beata Kowalski’s death: the police investigation into her for medical child abuse. Along with Detective Mike Weber and our anonymous Florida pediatrician friend, we unpack shocking new details from the police investigation and from Jack Kowalski’s interview the Detective Stephanie Graham. Was Jack really just being pressured to throw his wife under the bus? Or did he have suspicions of his own a...
Oct 05, 2023•47 min•Season 3Ep. 3
As the Maya Kowalski case heads to trial, we dig into the massive trove of documents about this case and begin to unpack what we know about what really happened during Maya Kowalski’s fateful stay at Johns Hopkins All Childrens in October 2016. The Netflix documentary about the case—and the prevailing media narrative---would have you believe that Maya was ripped from her parents by a corrupt system, and that this could happen to any parent of a sick child. But did Maya really have a deadly disea...
Sep 28, 2023•44 min•Season 3Ep. 2
Warning: This content includes references to suicide and child abuse. If you or someone you know is having thoughts of suicide, help is available. Call or text 988 to speak with a trained crisis counselor 24/7. You can also visit 988lifeline.org for additional resources and support. As the Jack Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins All Childrens trial gets underway today in Sarasota, FL, we revisit our conversation with top experts Bea Yorker, Dr. Mary Sanders, Detective Mike Weber, and survivor Jordyn Hope...
Sep 21, 2023•50 min•Season 3Ep. 1
In today's bonus episode, Andrea talks to family law attorney Leah McGowan about family and juvenile court and all of the many complications within those systems that create barriers for helping victims of medical child abuse. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here . To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcast s or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all epis...
Sep 14, 2023•47 min
In Andrea’s full conversation with law professor and nurse Bea Yorker, they discuss the complexities of medical child abuse, their work with survivors, and debunk some of the most common misconceptions about Munchausen by proxy/ medical child abuse. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here . To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcast s or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus cont...
Aug 31, 2023•1 hr 6 min•Ep. 12
In Andrea’s full conversation with renowned child abuse pediatrician, Dr. Carole Jenny they discuss Dr. Jenny’s fascinating history in the field, the intricacies of medical child abuse cases, and Dr. Jenny’s testimony and report in the state’s case against Andrea’s sister, Megan. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here . To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcast s or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can...
Aug 24, 2023•1 hr 13 min
In the finale of Season 2, we finally hear from the person at the center of our story: Alyssa Waybourn. Despite the immense challenges she has faced, Alyssa shines as a beacon of intelligence, strength, and resilience. Her story is a testament to the capacity of the human spirit to overcome even the darkest of circumstances. During a visit to Fort Worth, we meet Alyssa: a smart, happy, athletic teenager who is starting her new after-school job later that day. Alyssa has found solace and normalcy...
Aug 17, 2023•39 min•Season 2Ep. 10
In this gripping episode, we delve into the heart-wrenching account of Jordyn Hope, another survivor of medical child abuse. Taking a brief departure from Alyssa's story, we shine a spotlight on a far more common outcome for MBP survivors in which they are never successfully protected from their abuser. From a young age, Jordyn was led to believe they were a chronically ill child by their mother. Life-threatening asthma, organ removal attempts, and countless hospital visits became their horrific...
Aug 10, 2023•46 min•Season 2Ep. 9
We return to Alyssa's story - In the aftermath of Brittany Philips' conviction, Alyssa faces a daunting new reality: the path to recovery. The long-term physical and psychological effects of Munchausen by Proxy abuse cast a long shadow for survivors, and bringing Brittany to justice is just the beginning of the healing process. In this episode, we delve into Alyssa's journey and witness her remarkable growth as she embraces her new life. Bravely refusing to let her past define her, Alyssa emerge...
Aug 03, 2023•25 min•Season 2Ep. 8
In the wake of obtaining shocking public records about her sister’s case, host Andrea Dunlop decides to divulge the details of the second investigation into her sister, Megan Carter. Seated alongside Detective Mike Webber, Andrea delves into the extensive documentation, and together the two unpack the devastating information about what reportedly happened to her niece. Despite video evidence, a successful separation test, and expert testimony from one of the most well-respected experts in the co...
Jul 27, 2023•54 min•Season 2Ep. 7
Despite the undeniable evidence against Brittany, the verdict takes a shocking turn. Dawn Ferguson, the prosecutor on the case elucidates the challenges of convincing a jury that a mother could engage in such abuse against her own child. After six months of review and preparation, the legal team enters the courtroom armed with reams of eyewitness accounts and, most damningly, Brittany’s grisly search history. Detective Mike Webber walks us through the complications of the trial and unpacks why t...
Jul 20, 2023•27 min•Season 2Ep. 6
We gather top experts Bea Yorker, Dr. Mary Sanders, Detective Mike Weber, and MBP survivor Jordyn Hope to discuss the Netflix documentary “Take Care of Maya” and the complicated case it covers. *** Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here . To support the show, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe where you can listen to exclusive bonus content and access all episodes early and ad-free. For more i...
Jul 17, 2023•49 min
The Waybourns face the daunting task of safeguarding Alyssa against Brittany's relentless attempts to pull her back into her web. We hear more about Alyssa’s turbulent journey to become a Waybourn, as the family fights through a system that doesn’t know how to deal with medical child abuse. Beatrice Yorker, a child and adolescent psychiatric nurse, law professor and MBP expert, reveals the disturbing extent to which this crime is overlooked in our society. We also speak to a family law attorney ...
Jul 13, 2023•25 min•Season 2Ep. 5
In this season of Nobody Should Believe Me, we've heard from Sheriff Bill and Laura Waybourn about their concern for Alyssa- who was a distant family member of theirs. Now, we take some time to get to know this incredible couple who’ve changed the lives of so many children. Laura, a former CPS worker and devoted mama bear and Bill a seasoned law enforcement veteran with a heart of gold, have opened their hearts and home to numerous children in need: eventually adopting nine kids. These tireless ...
Jul 06, 2023•26 min•Season 2Ep. 4
