Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. Hey, this is Danish Wartz. Thank you so much for listening to Noble Blood. Just a quick note before we begin. If you want to support the show, join the Noble Family over on Patreon, where I do monthly bonus episodes, drop episode scripts, and have an exclusive seasonal sticker club. We also have merched available at d F tb A
dot com. Both of those are linked in the episode description. But honestly, as always, just thank you so much for listening. Let's get started, shall we. All? Throughout Cosbine, the capital of the Stuff of It Empire, it was rumored that Shaw Thomas the First was dying. The news came as no real surprise. The Shaw had been ill for more than two years, and he had come close to death
several times. Know what people were talking about now was the fact that the Shah, even after those two years spent on the brink of death, still had not declared a successor. Successions are often the most vulnerable time for any government and things. In the souf of an empire which had a border extending past present day Iran were particularly fraught. In the spring of fifteen seventy six. Shah Tamas had spent much of his fifty two year reign
quelling tribal uprisings. With his death, it seemed likely that such fighting could break out again, even worse, in the absence of a clear endorsement from the Shah. Tribal leaders in the empire had rallied behind two different candidates for their next leader, both sons of Tamas. If Tamas did not choose but between his sons before his death, if the transition didn't run smoothly, if a strong leader didn't immediately take the throne, many feared that civil war would
break out. As whispers over the Shah's condition intensified, the two candidates, Prince Haydar and Prince Isma'il rallied their respective troops. Haidar was in the palace at Kasvin alongside his dying father, while Ismail was some three hundred miles away, imprisoned in qua Qua Castle. Despite his distance, many of his Mail's supporters were also in Kasveen, and the situation between his supporters and Heydair supporters grew tense and tenser throughout April fifteen,
seventy six. On May the news that everyone had been anticipating finally came. Shah Tamasp had died the night before, and no successor had been chosen. We don't know why Tomas never publicly declared a successor, perhaps, having escaped death multiple times before, he mistakenly thought he would do so again. But one thing was clear. The Empire now stood on a precipice after seventy five years. Was the stuff of a dynasty going to descend into chaos? Would a battle
between two brothers lead to ruin for the empire? Who would emerge victorious and take the seat of the Shah? With all eyes on Haidar and Ismail, many missed that it was not the princes who were pulling the strings at the palace. It was their sister, Princess Periannu. It was she who held the fate of the empire in her hands. Over the next two years, she would emerge as a force to be reckoned, with a political mastermind, mind whose decisions would shape the suff of a dynasty
but eventually lead to her own untimely, tragic death. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is noble blood. To understand Princess Pari khan Hanum's rise and fall, it's important to understand the world she lived in. The Safavi dynasty originated from a group of Sufi's or Islamic mystics who came from what is now northwestern Iran. The group became known as the Sofavides after their founder, a fourteenth century spiritual leader
named Safi al Din. After Safi al Din's death in thirty four, leadership of the movement passed from father to son. By the mid fifte century, the group had become more militant, intent on spreading Shia Islam through military conquest. Under Shaikhidar, who led the Safavids from fourteen sixty through four eight, many members of the group adopted a tall, narrow scarlet hat with twelve sides to commemorate the twelve and moms,
who are the cornerstones of Shia Islam. This led their Turkish enemies to call them kiss Bash or redheads, a name the group soon adopted as their own. I know it gets just a little complicated here, but Kisobash, who were in fact an assortment of different tribes, served as the military backbone of the Safavides and their leaders were
enormously influential. When Haydar was killed in fourteen eighty eight, the Safavids retreated somewhat, only to experience a striking resurgence under the leadership of Heydar's thirteen year old son Ismail. Those names probably sound familiar, but this is all background, happening about a century before our brothers Heydar and Isma'il, So let's just do that quick clarifier. Like many royal dynasties, the Safavits liked to pass down royal names. The fourteen hundreds.
Haydar and his son Isma'il are the ancestors of our Peri Khan Hanum, who had brothers Haydar and Isma'il living during the fifteen hundreds, the siblings with the dying father who didn't name a successor. But flashback back to their ancestors and background. Ismail is rallying thousands of Kislbash troops in the summer of fifteen hundred to avenge his father.
After defeating the group responsible for his father Heydar's death, Ismael continued on acquiring enormous swatches territory, including much of the land east of modern day Turkey and west of modern India. By fifteen oh one, Ismail had been crowned as Shah of Iran and the self of the dynasty was born. The royal family was multi ethnic and multi lingual. Shaw's normally took multiple consorts, often from different ethnic groups such as the Georgians, Circassians and Pontic Greeks. The self
of each Shaws were patrons of the arts. The dynasty's artists created marvels of mosaics and mirror tiles, stunning illustrated manuscripts, and beautiful calligraphy. They valued education and religious piety, beauty and tradition, military prowess and strategic thinking. So now we fast forward. It was in that environment that Perry Num was born in August fifteen. She was the second daughter of the second ruler of the suff of the dynasty, Shah to Moss. The first Pari's mother, Sultan Agaum, was
the second wife of the Shah. If you're wondering about the shared matrilineal last name, it's a little bit misleading. Num is a term that can loosely translate as princess, and so it was a royal surname shared by many royal women. During her earliest years, Perry Chum was raised under the guidance of a tutor, Kali Ran, who provided her with an excellent education in a court that valued artistic skill and intellect. This upbringing served the princess well.
Her intelligence soon caught the eye of her father, who made sure that she was trained in a range of fields, from poetry to jurisprudence. It became clear that this brilliant, clear headed princess was her father's favorite daughter. Mahmuda Fuschnatanzi, a Safovite historian who lived at the same time as Perry, recorded that quote. The Shaw would act according to her advice and apt probation in affairs minor and major, financial
and administrative. All the important affairs of the Shah, from politics and international relations to the rules and customs of monarchy, were carried out according to that wise and just Princess's opinion and recommendation, and nothing was done without her knowledge and consent end quote. She was also known as a talented poet and a passionate patron of the arts who commissioned many works. When she was ten, she was betrothed to a cousin, Prince Badi al Zaman, but she never
traveled to his home in Sistan. It was believed that her father wanted to keep his beloved daughter close. Despite the royal family's willingness to educate its daughters and the Shah's willingness to take political advice from them, it was still taken for granted that a man would succeed Shah Tamas found the throne. By fifteen seventy four, when the Shah seriously ill for the first time, two of Parikhanum's brothers, Hidar and Ismail, were seen as the front runners, each
supported by different tribes within the Kisilbash. Shah Tamasp's eldest son, Muhammad Koda Banda, was blind by this point due to an illness, which in the Safavid culture disqualified him from ruling. Next in line would naturally be the second son, Isma'il, but he faced a slight obstacle. He had been imprisoned since fifteen fifty four by his father for reasons that are not entirely clear, perhaps because his father thought that he was disloyal, or perhaps because he was known to
take male lovers. Nevertheless, Ismail had many supporters, including his sister Peri. Ismail's main opponent to the throne was his half brother Hydar, about whose early life not much is known. Many of had Our supporters did so because of his Georgian heritage via his mother. As the Shah grew sicker, Haydar and his supporters worked to ingratiate themselves with the Shah. Haydar attended to his father closely and made sure to be at his side on the night of May fourteenth,
comforting the Shah as he slipped away. On the morning of May fifteen, once news of the Shah's death had spread through Kasbin, Haydar decided he needed to take immediate action. Though Ismael was still imprisoned hundreds of miles away, Haydar needed to consolidate his own power. He did so by striking at the center of Ismael's support. He detained Princess Perihan Rahnum in the palace. It was a dangerous moment
for the princess. Haydar could have easily killed or imprisoned her for her disloyalty, after all, she had openly supported his brother, But perry Chum saw an out. Heydar needed support, and she could offer it to him. Alexander Beg Munci, another contemporary Sophovite historian, wrote that Perry threw herself on the ground before Haydar, saying, quote, women are foolish creatures. If in my stupidity and shortsightedness, I have been guilty of any misdemeanor, I beg you to pardon me and
spare my life. In that event, I will follow the path of obedience to you, and will not deviate by so much as a hair's breadth from the court of conduct, which is pleasing to your highness. End quote. Then she bent over and kissed her brother's feet, laying it on
a little thick but effective. Moved by her words and recognizing the importance of her support, Haydar accepted Perry Rannum's apology on the condition that she secured the support of her brother Solomon Misra and her uncle some called Sultan. Perry Chum agreed and said she needed to leave at once to convince her brother and uncle to join Hydarhydar granted her permission to go, certain that he was now
safe to proceed. Heydar placed his father's crown on his head and declared himself Shah to back up his claim, he presented a document that named him successor. The document bore what looked like the royal seal, but opponents noted that the handwriting did not quite look like to Mosps. It was a dramatic step towards assuming the throne, but it was a short sighted one. Every night, the palace
guards were selected from different tribes of the Kiselbash. This measure assured that no one tribe would have dominant presents within the palace. On May fifteenth, the night that Heydar made his immediate move, the guards were all from tribes that's hoarded Ismail. Heydar might have been wearing the crown, but he was surrounded by enemies. One to then refused to open the palace gates to let Hydar's supporters in or Haydar himself out. Another dangerous force was gathering outside
the palace. These men, supporters of Ismail, possessed a secret tool that would soon change the balance of power, and it had been provided to them by the very woman who had just kissed her brother's feet in a show of loyalty, unbeknown to Haydar. As soon as Peri Channum had gotten outside the palace gates. She had run to Ismail's supporters and presented them with a set of keys to the palace. Soon the men stormed through the gates,
calling for Heydar's blood. Heydar, hearing the cries, dressed in women's clothing and hid among a group of women leaving the palace, but he was quickly found out. Ismail's supporters captured Haydar and executed him. His severed head was thrown out of the palace for his supporters to see. He had not even been shah for one full day. With Haydar dead, Ismail had an easy path to victory, but he was still on the road to Cousvene at this point, and in the meantime, the work of the state had
to continue. The various nobles and government officials needed someone to make decisions on administrative and financial issues. In other words, they needed someone to rule, and who better than the woman who had, in essence, determined the outcome of the succession crisis. For the next month and a half. While Ismail was working his way toward the capital, Perry Ranum served as de facto regent, and to her authority was unquestionable.
Her position and seemed secure. She was confident that her influence and power would only continue once Ismail arrived in Cosbin. After all, he owed her, didn't he. Ismail and his party came to the edge of Kasvin after twenty days of traveling in late spring fifteen seventy six, but he did not enter the city immediately. Like many stuff of It royals, he was a fervent believer in reading the signs of the stars, and he would only enter Cosvein once his astrologer told him that the time was right
for a coronation. While he camped out, Perry continued to serve as ruler, giving audiences to nobles who would meet first with the princess and then traveled to Ismael's camp outside the city for an audience with the prince. Ismael's twenty year long imprisonment had left him paranoid and distra RESTful. Though Perichnum was responsible for his victory, Ismael did not
fully believe in her loyalty. After all, she was the most beloved daughter of their father, the same father who had sent Ismail to prison, and his suspicions only deepened in his weeks spent on the outskirts of town as he watched his sister's influence grow. After more than a month as regent, peri Chanum had set up a court of sorts replete with the same regal rituals and customs
that her father's court had Followed. Nobles and servants alike behaved with deference to the princess, accorded her respect, performed ceremonies on her behalf, and obeyed her decisions. Ismael, seeing all of this, was furious. The historian Alexander beg mun.
She records that Ismael gathered all of the nobles around and braided them, quote, have you not understood, my friends, that interference in matters of state by women is demeaning to the King's honor, and that for men to associate with women of the Safavide Royal house is an abominable crime? End quote. This censure quickly shut down the nobles practice of visiting Perichum. In fact, it shut down all practice
of anyone visiting her. From that point on, she was kept in isolation in her home, with only royal guards for company. It was not only peri Renum that Ismael was suspicious of. Early on in his reign, he became convinced that the only way to secure his grasp on the throne was to eliminate all competition, and he quickly set about doing so mercilessly. On one day alone, he had six princes murdered. First was Prince Ibrahim, an artist, poet,
and musician, who was strangled. His wife was so distraught by the death that she destroyed Ibrahim's entire library and precious art collection so that the Shah could not have his treasures, and she worked herself into such a frenzy while destroying her husband's possessions that she herself died later that month. Then came Prince Mohammed Hossien, who was first
blinded and then put to death. Next was Prince Mahmud, who was thought dead after strangulation, but awoke as whose corpse was being prepared for burial, and so then he was killed again. Then the Shah had Mahummud's infant son killed two Two more princes were brought to the palace and put to death later that same day. Ismael's killingsbury didn't end there. He ordered the deaths of nearly all
remaining male members of the immediate royal family. Prince Badi al Zaman and his royal son Bahram, and then Prince Hassan, son of Ismael's brother. By point, only one prince who had been blinded but whose life had been spared, and the already blind Mohammed Koda Banda, survived. It's thought that Ismail was less concerned with Mohammed Koda Banda because he had gone blind long ago, and because his remaining sons
were still very young. Isma'il perhaps also felt a sense of loyalty to his blind older brother, since they shared the same mother, but neither motivation proved quite strong enough. Soon the Shah ordered Mohammed and his sons to be placed under house arrest, and it was rumored that Ismael was planning on having them put to death. But before that could happen, Ismail died suddenly on November five, fifteen
seventy seven. The Shah had been in good health. He had spent the night before in the company of his close confident Hassan Beg, wandering the streets of Kasmin together, smoking opium and eating sweets. The two men returned to Hassan Beg's room sometime in the early hours in the morning. These Shaw's attendants gathered outside the room, waiting for his moil to awaken and begin his day, but by late
morning there was still no sign of him. Too frightened to disturb the Shaw, the servants hovered nervously around the door until noon, at which point a physician was summoned. When the physician called through the door, Hassan Beg replied, as MUNCHI tells it, quote, I cannot move to open the door. Open the door from the outside in whatever way you can, and come in for an astonishing event has occurred. Unquote. What was found when the door was
finally opened was indeed astonishing. Hassan Beg was immobilized, with no sensation in his lower half, and he had a stuttering voice. The Shah himself was motionless. He was already dead. Hassan Beg haltingly recounted the events of the night. Returning from their walk, the Shah requested that his box of herbal medicines be brought to him. When the box arrived, Hassan Beg noticed that it was not sealed as it usually was, and he pointed it out to a Smail,
who shook off his concerns. The Shaw took some medicine and convinced Hassan to as well, though his companion took less than he had. In the morning, when Hassan woke, he found himself unable to move his legs. Ismael was unable to speak. He stopped moving his arms. Hassan recounted, but after a while he ceased to move and his breathing stopped. As soon as the news of the strange circumstances of Ismael's death emerged, everyone seemed to have a theory.
Some thought it was a simple matter of over consumption. Ismail was known to use excessive amounts of opium and eat until he was ill. Others thought it was a severe recurrence of an occasional stomach problem that the Shah suffered. But more cynical observers pointed to poison, and when court physicians examined the Shah's body, they found symptoms that seemed to be signs of poisoning. Given Ismael's wholesale execution of nearly all of his close male relatives, he had no
shortage of enemies. But there was one name that seemed to come up most often in the discussions of suspects, the name of a family member who had been betrayed by Ismael, who had given him the throne and been rewarded with banishment the princess, Perry Num contemporaries and some historians alike, have contended that Perry Chum, furious at Ismael's treatment of her, had indeed conspired with maid servants in
Ismael's household to poison him. We'll never know for sure exactly who or what caused the death of Shah Ismael the Second in November of fifty seven, but we do know what happened next whether or not Perry was responsible for the death of Ismael. She played the circumstances to
her advantage. When a group of nobles approached her asking her to take the throne, she demurred, saying that it would be improper given that her older brother Mohammed still lived, a statement no doubt influenced by her understanding that society at large at the time would be hesitant about a woman in power, But even nobles who were uncomfortable with the idea of a woman formally taking the throne recognized
the princess's power. After the leaders of the various tribes and political alliances met to discuss the next shot, they went to pery Chum's house to get her final approval on their proposal. Their proposal was to put Mohammed Cotabanda on the It was a proposal that suited per well. Mohammed Koubanda was known to pursue pleasure more than political power. With a weak willed and not particularly politically minded man on the throne, thought she could rule in the shadows.
But what she hadn't counted on was another player in the equation, someone who, like Perry, had been overlooked on account of her sex, but who was keenly ambitious, and perhaps just as clever as the princess herself. It was Mohammed kuld Banda's wife, Hira al Nissa Begum. Hira al Nissa Begum was born in Mazandaran, a province in the north of the Empire on the southern shores of the
Caspian Sea. Born to a ruler of the province, her childhood was likely a luxurious one, but the privilege didn't last. In fifteen sixty, her cousin killed her father and hire on the Sabagoon was forced to flee. She took refuge with the Safavid court, and though she was quickly swept up in the activities of the court. Her desire for revenge against her cousin never left her. She was eventually married to Mohammed Koda Banda, the son of the shah
Tamas the first. Given Mohammed Kodabanda's blindness, the family had determined that he would never take the throne, and so their family ended up living a relatively low profile life in the city of Sharaz, where Mohammed nominally served as governor, spending most of his time with a group of artists and poets. But with his brother Ismail's death, their family
status rose meteorically. As the court awaited the arrival of their new Shah, Perry Khannum assumed the same role of unofficial regent that she had between the death of Hadar and the coronation of Ismae. This period of control would last, this time for nearly three months. Her most notable accomplishment during this time was the liberation of a large number of political prisoners, including those jailed for supporting Hidar. But even as Peri ch Kanum maintained order in the empire,
trouble was brewing within the royal family. It began when Ismail's former vizier or political advisor, rode out to Sharaz to warn Mohammed Kodabanda and his wife of Peri Chan Khanum's ambitions quote as long as peich Kanum was mistress in the palace and controlled affairs of the state. When she records the Vizier saying the Shah would possess nothing but the title of king and his wife would not be admitted to the heron, the royal couple made it
clear that they would not tolerate any usurpation. When news of this declaration and made it back to Peri chan Khanum, she and her supporters began to take actions to solidify her power. Guards patrolled the palace ready to take on any threat to the princess. In response, the Vizier sent guards of his own to the state treasury, which was under Perry Khanum's control at that point. Tensions mounted and several skirmishes ensued between the supporters of Peri and those
of Mohammed Codebanda and Chira al Nissa begun. Perry Chum's treatment of the couple upon their arrival in Kasvine did nothing to help matters, as Mohammed and his wife rode up to the city on February ninth, seventy eight. Peri Chan Khanum came out to greet them in an opulent litter surrounded by a huge crowd of supporters. It was a bold statement of authority and one that certainly rankled the already insecure royal incomers. One story recounted by Munchi
alleges that Perry k snubbed the future empress. The higher Al Nissa Begum kissed Perry Kanum's hand, the princess refused to reciprocate with any gesture of respect. Despite this tension, Perry Khan Khanum and her brother Mohammed were able to conduct a cordial meeting in which they mourned the loss of their father, Shah Tamas and the deaths of their male relatives at the hands of Shah Ismail. But this conversation was not enough to fix the rupture growing in
the family. Perry kan Kanum was too powerful and her very existence was a threat to the power of Mohammed Kudabanda and his wife Higher Al Nissabagum. Two days later, Mohammed Kulda Banda entered the palace in Kasmen and officially took the throne, becoming Shah of the Safavid Empire. All of the nobles were in the tendants to watch his ascension, including Perry. When the ceremony ended, Perry Chum boarded her litter and set off for her home, surrounded by attendants.
The roads of Kasvine were crowded with the city's citizens out in droves to celebrate the new Shah, and so the princess's attendants turned to re enter the palace grounds, planning to cut through the harem gardens to reach Pari Chum's house more quickly. But as the party neared her home, they were intercepted by a group of men who attempted to seize the litter. Paris attendants fought back inside the litter, the princess was thrown back and forth as the two
groups battled for control. Peace only came when the attackers revealed that they were acting on the orders of the Shah, and Perry Chum, realizing what was happening, surrendered herself. In a particular pcularly cruel twist, she saw that the leader of the group was none other than her old tutor and guardian Kalichhan. He had been promised perry Channum's entire estate in exchange for orchestrating her death. Perry Chum was
taken to Khaliochhan's house and kept as a prisoner. Later that evening, a group of Calliochhan's men entered the room and strangled the princess to death. She was twenty nine years old. In the centuries since her death, perry Chum's legacy has been debated by historians. Some see her as a powerful leader, others as a conniving backstabber. The truth, as always, is somewhere, probably in the middle and definitely more complicated. But her influence and power between fifteen seventy
six and fifteen seventy eight are undeniable. As the historian sharek O Shorki put it in her definitive work on the Princess, quote, it is time to grant recognition to such sophovid women as Peri chan Ranum, who took leadership roles and entered at the forbidden and formidable realm of power and intrigue at the court. That's the story of Pari ran Ranum. To learn more about the fate of the woman who helped organize her downfall. Higher Al Nissa
Begum listen after a quick commercial break. Once Peri Chanranum was dead, higher on Ni Sabagum, the new empress became the real power behind the throne. Like other Safavid empresses, she would eventually become known as mad Julia, which translates as sublime cradle or the highest ranking cradle. It's as
Madiulia that she's most commonly referred to today. As Empress, Madiola built out her network of influence, appointing family members and friends to important positions, gathering information, and dictating political and military strategy. Even as she worked to strengthen the Sapphovit Empire, she thought constantly of her home province of Mazadran, which was now ruled by the son of the man
who had killed her father. This man, Major Khan, had come to court when Madiulia and Mohammed Codebanda first ascended to the throne to seek forgiveness for his father's actions and get confirmation of his position as governor. Madiulia grudgingly granted both, but her forgiveness was only a facade. Sometime later, she appointed a new governor an uncle of hers and
declared Mirzakhan's authority to be illegitimate. Mirzakhan, understanding the potentially deadly implications of this move, hold up in the fortress of Furjah to try to protect himself, but even a fortress was no match for Madiolia's power. She sent a number of troops to the fort determined to starve Mirza Khan out, But when the troops arrived at the fortress, they realized that the siege would be a costly one, and so their commanding officer decided to try to negotiate.
After prolonged negotiations, Mirzakhan agreed to leave the fort on the condition that the officers present, all of whom held prominent positions at court, would help him plead his case to Madiolia. When Madiulia learned of the deal, she was furious, since she certainly intended to harm Mirza Khan and now she would have to work against her own men to do it. As the group transporting Merzokhan made their way to Kasvin, Madiulia sent out another group of warriors with
orders to capture Mirzakhan and to kill him. When this second group met up with the first The officers, who had sworn to protect Mirzakhan on the terms of the surrender, were reluctant to hand him over, but eventually they did so, fearful of disobeying a royal order and also believing that the men wouldn't actually kill the prisoner. They were wrong.
Later that night, the second group killed Mirzakhan. The officers present were furious, and though they had been loyal to Madiula, their loyalty began to waver after what they saw as a betrayal. The assassination was the beginning of the end for Madiula. It was not the only factor, of course. She made a number of bold moves, some of which were politically imprudent, and it additionally cannot be denied that there were some deep resentment among tribal leaders towards taking
orders from a woman. In mid fifteen seventy nine, a group of Kislbash leaders issued a shocking threat against the Empress to the Emperor, revealing the extent of their anger. It read, in part, quote, your Majesty knows well that women are notoriously lacking in intelligence, weak in judgment, and extremely obstinate. Maniolia's power and influence in the government of
the realm is objectionable to all the Kisabash tribes. If she is not removed from power, in all probability, revolts will occur that will be to the detriment of both religion and the state. Removed from power in this case meant killed. Shah Mohammad Kodabanda had no interest in revolt, but he also had no interest in executing his wife. He offered two solutions. Either he would say and his wife away from cous been, exiling her from the workings of court, or he himself would abdicate and allow the
Kiselbash to choose a new shop. Madelola provided a more fiery rebuke, declaring that she would never back down, even if it would cost her her life. Ultimately it did. On July fifteen seventy nine, only eighteen months after the death of Perich, Madiola was strangled to death in the palace ground by a number of Kiselbash warriors, who also killed her elderly mother, who was present. Without Madiolia's guiding hand,
Mohammed could have Banda's reign quickly fell into disarray. Four years later, Kiselbash leaders executed his vizier, the man who had warned Mohammed and his wife about Perichnus power rise five years earlier. In fifteen eighty seven, several kiss Abash tribes initiated full fledged coups, which ultimately succeeded in October
of that year. Eventually, Mohammed Codabanda was replaced by one of his sons, a man who, breaking the family bad luck streak, would go down in history as the most successful Sophavid ruler, the Shaw, who would become known as Avas the Great. Noble Blood is a production of I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is hosted by me Danis Shportz. Additional writing and researching done by Hannah Johnston, hannah's Wick, Mira Hayward, Courtney
Sunder and Laurie Goodman. The show is produced by rema Il Kali, with supervising producer Josh Thane and executive producers Earn Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H