The Safavid Princess in Power

those are linked in the episode description. But honestly, as always, just thank you so much for listening. Let's get started, shall we. All. Throughout Cosven, the capital of the Sofavid Empire, it was rumored that Shaw Tamas the First was dying. The news came as no real surprise. The Shaw had been ill for more than two years, and he had come close to death several times. No, what people were talking about now was the fact that the Shah, even after those two years spent on the brink of death,

still had not declared a successor. Successions are often the most vulnerable time for any government and things. In the Sofovid Empire, which had a border extending past present day, Iran were particularly fraught in the spring of fifteen seventy six. Shah Tamasp had spent much of his fifty two year reign quelling tribal uprisings. With his death, it seemed likely that such fighting could break out again, even worse, in the absence of a clear endorsement from the Shah. Tribal

leaders in the empire. Had rallied behind two different candidates for their next leader, both sons of Tamasp. If Tamasp did not choose but between his sons before his death, if the transition didn't run smoothly, if a strong leader didn't immediately take the throne, many feared that civil war would break out. As whispers over the Shah's condition intensified, the two candidates, Prince Hadar and Prince Ismail rallied their

respective troops. Haidar was in the palace at Kasvin alongside his dying father, while Ismail was some three hundred miles away, imprisoned in Quaquah Castle. Despite his distance, many of Ismail's supporters were also in Kasvin, and the situation between his supporters and Haydair supporters grew tense and tenser throughout April fifteen, seventy six. On May fifteenth, the news that everyone had been anticipating finally came. Shah Tamasp had died the night before,

and no successor had been chosen. We don't know why Tamasp never publicly declared a successor, perhaps having escaped death multiple times before, he mistakenly thought he would do so again. But one thing was clear. The empire now stood on a precipice after seventy five years. Was the Safovid dynasty going to descend into chaos? Would a battle between two brothers lead to ruin for the empire? Who would emerge

victorious and take the seat of the Shah? With all eyes on Haidar and Ismaeil, many missed that it was not the princes who were pulling the strings at the palace. It was their sister, Princess Peri ran Ranum. It was she who held the fate of the empire in her hands. Over the next two years, she would emerge as a force to be reckoned, with a political mastermind whose decisions would shape the Safavid dynasty but eventually lead to her own untimely tragic death. I'm Dana Schwartz and this is

noble blood. To understand Princess Parikhanhanum's rise and fall, it's important to understand the world she lived in. The Safavid dynasty originated from a group of Sufi's or Islamic mystics, who came from what is now northwestern Iran. The group became known as the Safavids after their founder, a fourteenth century spiritual leader named Safi al Din. After Safi Aldin's death in thirteen thirty four, leadership of the movement passed

from father to son. By the mid fifteenth century, the group had become more militant, intent on spreading Shia Islam through military conquest. Under Sheik Khidar, who led the Safavids from fourteen sixty through fourteen eighty eight, many members of the group adopted a tall, narrow scarlet hat with twelve sides to commemorate the twelve moms, who are the cornerstones of Shia Islam. This led their Turkish enemies to call them Kisbash or redheads, and name the group soon adopted

as their own. I know it gets just a little complicated here, but Kiselbash, who were in fact an assortment of different tribes, served as the military backbone of the Safavids, and their leaders were enormously influential. When Haidar was killed in fourteen eighty eight, the Safavids retreated somewhat, only to experience a striking resurgence under the leadership of Haidar's thirteen

year old son Ismaeil. Those names probably sound familiar, but this is all background happening about a century before our brothers Hadar and Ismaeil, So let's just do that quick clarifier. Like many royal dynasties, the Safavids liked to pass down royal names. The fourteen hundreds. Hadar and his son Ismaeil are the ancestors of our peri Chanhanum, who had brothers Hadar and Ismaeil living during the fifteen hundreds, the siblings with the dying father who didn't name a successor. But

flashback back to their ancestors and background. Ismail is rallying thousands of Kisobasch troops in the summer of fifteen hundred to avenge his father. After defeating the group responsible for his father Heydar's death, Ismail continued on acquiring enormous Swatch's territory, including much of the land east of modern day Turkey and west of modern India. By fifteen oh one, Ismail had been crowned as Shah of Iran and the Safavi dynasty was born. The royal family was multi ethnic and

multi lingual. Shas normally took multiple consorts, often from different ethnic groups such as the Georgians, Circassians, and Pontic Greeks. The Selfovi Chas were patrons of the arts. The dynasty's artists created marvels of mosaics and mirror tiles, stunning illustrated manuscripts, and beautiful calligraphy. They valued education and religious piety, beauty and tradition, military prowess and strategic thinking. So now we fast forward. It was in that environment that Peri Janranum

was born in August fifteen forty eight. She was the second daughter of the second ruler of the Safavi dynasty, Shah Tamasp. The first Pari's mother, Sultan Aga Khanum, was the second wife of the Shah. If you're wondering about the shared matrilineal last name, it's a little bit misleading. Ranum is a term that can loosely translate as princess and so was a royal surname shared by many royal women.

During her earliest years, perichran Rnum was raised under the guidance of a tutor Raliran, who provided her with an excellent education in a court that valued artistic skill and intellect. This upbringing served the princess well. Her intelligence soon caught the eye of her father, who made sure that she was trained in a range of fields, from poetry to jurisprudence. It became clear that this brilliant, clear headed princess was

her father's favorite daughter. Mahmouda fuschay Natanzi, a Safavid historian who lived at the same time as perichran Hanum, recorded that quote the Shah would act according to her advice and at probation in affairs minor and major, financial and administrative.

All the important affairs of the Shah, from politics and international relations to the rules and customs of monarchy, were carried out according to that wise and just Princess's opinion and recommendation, and nothing was done without her knowledge and consent end quote. She was also known as a talented poet and a passionate patron of the arts, who commissioned many works. When she was ten, she was betrothed to a cousin, Prince Badi al Zaman, but she never traveled

to his home in Sistan. It was believed that her father wanted to keep his beloved daughter close. Despite the royal family's willingness to educate its daughters and the Shah's willingness to take political advice from them, it was still taken for granted that a man would succeed Shah Tamaspa on the throne. By fifteen seventy four, when the Shah well seriously ill for the first time, two of Parikranhanum's brothers, Haidar and Ismail, were seen as the front runners, each

supported by different tribes within the Kizilbash. Shah Tamasp's eldest son, Muhammed Kodabanda, was blind by this point due to an illness, which in the Safavid culture disqualified him from ruling. Next in line would naturally be the second son, Ismael, but he faced a slight obstacle. He had been imprisoned since fifteen fifty four by his father for reasons that are not entirely clear, perhaps because his father thought that he was disloyal or perhaps because he was known to take

male lovers. Nevertheless, Ismail had many supporters, including his sister perikran Ranum. Ismail's main opponent to the throne was his half brother Hadar, about whose early life not much is known. Many of hid Our supporters did so because of his Georgian heritage via his mother. As the Shah grew sicker, Haidar and his supporters worked to ingratiate themselves with the Shah. Haidar attended to his father closely and made sure to be at his side on the night of May fourteenth,

comforting the Shah as he slipped away. On the morning of May fifteenth, whence news of the Shah's death had spread through Cosvin, Haidar decided he needed to take immediate action. Though Ismael was still imprisoned hundreds of miles away, Haidar needed to consolidate his own power. He did so by striking at the center of Ismail's support. He detained Princess perikan Ranum in the palace. It was a dangerous moment for the princess. Hadar could have easily killed or imprisoned

her for her disloyalty. After all, she had openly supported his brother, but perifran Ranum saw an out. Haidar needed support and she could offer it to him. Exander Begmunci, another contemporary Safavit historian, wrote that Perigranranum threw herself on the ground before Hadar, saying, quote, women are foolish creatures. If in my stupidity and shortsightedness, I have been guilty of any misdemeanor, I beg you to pardon me and

spare my life. In that event, I will follow the path of obedience to you, and will not deviate by so much as a hair's breadth from the court of conduct, which is pleasing to your highness end quote. Then she bent over and kissed her brother's feet, laying it on

a little thick but effective. Moved by her words and recognizing the importance of her support, Haidar accepted Peri ran Ranum's apology on the condition that she secured the support of her brother Soleiman Mishra and her uncle sam Cal Sultan. Peri Chantanum agreed and said she needed to leave at once to convince her brother and uncle to join Haidar dark granted her permission to go, certain that he was now safe to proceed. Hadar placed his father's crown on

his head and declared himself Shah. To back up his claim, he presented a document that named him successor. The document bore what looked like the royal seal, but opponents noted that the handwriting did not quite look like tamasps. It was a dramatic step towards assuming the throne, but it was a short sighted one. Every night, the palace guards were selected from different tribes of the Kiselbasch. This measure assured that no one tribe would have dominant presence within

the palace. On May fifteenth, the knight that Hadar made his immediate move. The guards were all from tribes that supp hoarded Ismael. Haidar might have been wearing the crown, but he was surrounded by enemies, one who then refused to open the palace gates to let Haidar's supporters in or Haidar himself out. Another dangerous force was gathering outside

the palace. These men, supporters of Ismael, possessed a secret tool that would soon change the balance of power, and it had been provided to them by the very woman who had just kissed her brother's feet in a show of loyalty. Unbeknownst to Haidar, as soon as Peri Chantranum had gotten outside the palace gates, she had run to Ismail's supporters and presented them with a set of keys to the palace. Soon the men stormed through the gates,

calling for Hadar's blood. Haidar, hearing the cries, dressed in women's clothing and hid among a group of women leaving the palace, but he was quickly found out. Ismaeil's supporters captured Hadar and executed him. His severed head was thrown out of the palace for his supporters to see. He had not even been show for one full day. With Hadar dead, Ismael had an easy path to victory, but he was still on the road to Kasvin at this point, and in the meantime, the work of the state had

to continue. The various nobles and government officials needed someone to make decisions on administrative and financial issues. In other words, they needed someone to rule, and who better than the woman who had, in essence, determined the outcome of the succession crisis. For the next month and a half. While Ismael was working his way toward the capital, Peri ran Ranum served as de facto regent, and her authority was unquestionable.

Her position seemed secure. She was confident that her influence and power would only continue once Ismail arrived in Cosvin. After all, he owed her, didn't he. Ismail and his party came to the edge of Cosvin after twenty days of traveling in late spring fifteen seventy six, but he

did not enter the city immediately. Like many Suffovit royals, he was a fervent believer in reading the signs of the stars, and he would only enter cosviin once his astrologer told him that the time was right for a coronation. While he camped out, Peri chran Ranum continued to serve as ruler, giving audiences to nobles who would meet first with the princess and then travel to Ismail's camp outside

the city for an audience with the prince. Ismaeil's twenty year long imprisonment had left him paranoid and dist trustful. Though perigran Ranum was responsible for his victory, Ismael did not fully believe in her loyalty. After all, she was the most beloved daughter of their father. The same father, who had sent Ismael to prison, and his suspicions only deepened in his weeks spent on the outskirts of town

as he watched his sister's influence grow. After more than a month as regent, perigran Ranum had set up a court of sorts replete with the same regal rituals and customs that her father's court had Followed. Nobles and servants alike behaved with deference to the princess, accorded her respect, performed ceremonies on her behalf, and obeyed her decisions. Ismael,

seeing all of this, was furious. The historian Xander Begmundchi records that Ismael gathered all of the nobles around and berated them, quote, have you not understood, my friends, that interference in matters of state by women is demeaning to the King's honor, and that for men to associate with women of the Safavid royal house is an abominable crime. End This censure quickly shut down the nobles practice of visiting perchrand Renum. In fact, it shut down all practice

of anyone visiting her. From that point on, she was kept in isolation in her home with only royal guards for company. It was not only Perigranranum that Ismael was suspicious of. Early on in his reign, he became convinced that the only way to secure his grasp on the throne was to eliminate all competition, and he quickly set about doing so mercilessly. On one day alone, he had six princes murdered. First was Prince Ibrahim, an artist, poet,

and musician, who was strangled. His wife was so distraught by the death that she destroyed Ibrahim's entire library and precious art collection so that the Shah could not have his treasures, and she worked herself into such a frenzy while destroying her husband's possessions that she herself died later that month. Then came Prince Mohammed Hussian, who was first

blinded and then put to death. Next was Prince Mahmoud, who was thought dead after strangulation, but awoke as whose corpse was being prepared for burial, and so then he was killed again. Then the Shah had Mahmud's infant son killed two Two more princes were brought to the palace and put to death. Later that same day, Ismael's Killingsbury

didn't end there. He ordered the deaths of nearly all remaining male members of the immediate royal family, Prince Thadi al Zaman and his royal son Bahram, and then Prince Hasan, son of Ismail's brother. By this this point, only one prince who had been blinded but whose life had been spared, and the already blind Mohammed Kodabanda, survived. Its thought that Ismael was less concerned with Mohammed Kodabanda because he had gone blind long ago, and because his remaining sons were

still very young. Ismail perhaps also felt a sense of loyalty to his blind older brother, since they shared the same mother. But neither motivation proved quite strong enough. Soon the Shah ordered Mohammad and his sons to be placed under house arrest, and it was rumored that Ismael was planning on having them put to death. But before that could happen, Ismail died suddenly on November fifth, fifteen seventy seven.

The Shah had been in good health. He had spent the night before in the company of his close confident Hassan Bek, wandering the streets of Kasvin together smoking opium and eating sweets. The two men returned to Hassan Beg's room sometime in the early hours. In the morning, these Shah's attendants gathered outside the room, waiting for Ismaul to awaken and begin his day, but by late morning there

was still no sign of him. Too frightened to disturb the Shah, the servants hovered nervously around the door until noon, at which point a physician was summoned. When the physician called through the door, Hassan Beg replied, as MUNCHI tells it, quote, I cannot move to open the door. Open the door from the outside in whatever way you can and come in for an astonishing event has occurred. Unquote. What was found when the door was finally opened was indeed astonishing.

Hassan Beg was immobilized, with no sensation in his lower half, and he had a stuttering voice. The Shah himself was motionless. He was already dead. Hassan Beg haltingly recounted the events of the night. Returning from their walk, the Shah requested that his box of herbal medicines be brought to him. When the box arrived, Hassan Beg noticed that it was not sealed as it usually was, and he pointed it

out to Ismail, who shook off his concerns. The Shah took some medicine and convinced Hassan to as well, though his companion took less than he had In the morning, when Hassan woke, he found himself unable to move his legs. Ismael was unable to speak. He stopped moving his arms. Hassan recounted, but after a while he ceased to move and his breathing stopped. As soon as the news of the strange circumstances of Ismael's death emerged, everyone seemed to

have a theory. Some thought it was a simple matter of over consumption. Ismael was known to use excessive amounts of opium and eat until he was ill. Others thought it was a severe recurrence of an occasional stomach problem that the Shah suffered. But more cynical observers pointed to poison, and when court physicians examined the Shah's body, they found

symptoms that seemed to be signs of poisoning. Given Ismael's wholesale execution of nearly all of his close male relatives, he had no shortage of enemies, but there was one name that seemed to come up most often in the discussions of suspects, the name of a family member who had been betrayed by Ismail, who had given him the

throne and been rewarded with banishment, the Princess Periranranum. Contemporaries and some historians alike have contended that Periandraanum, furious at Ismaeil's treatment of her, had indeed conspired with maid servants in Ismail's household to poison him. We'll never know for sure exactly who or what caused the death of Shah Ismail the Second in November of fifteen seventy seven, but we do know what happened next whether or not peri

Rankranum was responsible for the death of Ismael. She played the circumstances to her advantage. When a group of nobles approached her asking her to take the throne, she demurred, saying that it would be improper given that her older brother Mohammed still lived, a statement no doubt influenced by her understanding that society at large at the time would be hesitant about a woman in power, but even nobles who were uncomfortable with the idea of a woman formally

taking the throne recognized the princess's power. After the leaders of the various tribes and political alliances met to discuss the next Shah, they went to Perrankranum's house to get her final approval on their proposal. Their proposal was to put Mohammed Kodabundan the throne. It was a proposal that suited Perkranranum well. Mohammed Kodubanda was known to pursue pleasure

more than political power. With a weak willed and not particularly politically minded man on the throne, Pekandranum thought she could rule in the shadows. But what she hadn't counted on was another player in the equation, someone who, like Periandranum, had been overlooked on account of her sex, but who was keenly ambitious, and perhaps just as clever as the princess herself. It was Mohammed Kudbanda's wife, Hira al Nisabegum.

Hira al Nisabegum was born in Mazandaran, a province in the north of the Empire on the southern shores of the Caspian Sea. Born to a ruler of the province. Her childhood was likely a luxurious one, but the privilege didn't last in fifteen. In sixty five, her cousin killed her father and hire on Ni Sabagun was forced to flee. She took refuge with the Sapavid court, and though she was quickly swept up in the activities of the court, her desire for revenge against her cousin never left her.

She was eventually married to Mohammed Kodabanda, the son of the shah Tamas the first. Given Mohammed Kodabanda's blindness, the family had determined that he would never take the throne, and so their family ended up living a relatively low profile life in the city of Shiraz, where Mohammad nominally served as governor, spending most of his time with a group of artists and poets. But with his brother Ismael's death, their family status rose meteorically. As the court awaited the

arrival of their new Shah. Perry Khanhanum assumed the same role of unofficial regent that she had between the death of Hadar and the coronation of Isma. This period of control would last, this time for nearly three months. Her most notable accomplishment during this time was the liberation of a large number of political prisoners, including those jailed for supporting Hadar. But even as Perichranranum maintained order in the empire,

trouble was brewing within the royal family. It began when Ismaeil's former Vizir or political adviser, rode out to Shiraz to warn Mohammed Kodabanda and his wife of Peri Ranranum's ambitions. Quote as long as Peigranranum was mistress in the palace and controlled affairs of the state. When she records the Vizier saying the Shah would possess nothing but the title of king and his wife would not be admitted to the hero. The royal couple made it clear that they

would not tolerate any usurpation. When news of this declaration made it back to Perry Chankranum, she and her supporters began to take actions to solidify her power. Guards patrolled the palace, ready to take on any threat to the princess.

In response, the Vizier sent guards of his own to the state treasury, which was under Perichranhranum's control at that point, tensions mounted and several skirmishes ensued between the supporters of Perry Krankranum and those of Mohammed Codebanda and Chira al Nisabagum. Peri Franchranum's treatment of the couple upon their arrival in

Kasvin did nothing to help matters. As Mohammed and his wife rode up to the city on February ninth, fifteen seventy eight, Perichrankranum came out to greet them in an opulent litter surrounded by a huge crowd of supporters. It was a bold statement of authority, and one that certainly rankled the already insecure royal incomers. One story recounted by Munchi alleges that Peri Krankranum snubbed the future empress. The chier Alni Sabegum kissed perikran Karanum's hand, the princess refused

to reciprocate with any gesture of respect. Despite this tension, Peri kran Kranum and her brother Mohammed were able to conduct a cordial meeting in which they mourned the loss of their father Chatamas and the deaths of their male relatives at the hands of Shah Ismael, but this conversation was not enough to fix the rupture growing in the family. Perry Krankranum was too powerful and her very existence was a threat to the power of Mohammed Kodibanda and his

wife chier Alni Sabegum. Two days later, Mohammed Kodibanda entered the palace in Kasvin and officially took the throne, becoming Shah of the Safavid Empire. All of the nobles were in the attendants to watch his ascension, including Peri Grankranum. When the ceremony ended, Perry Krankranum boarded her litter and

set off for her home, surrounded by attendants. The roads of Cosvin were crowded with the city's citizens out in droves to celebrate the new Shah, and so the princess's attendants turned to re enter the palace grounds, planning to cut through the harem gardens to reach Parikranranum's house more quickly, But as the party neared her home, they were intercepted by a group of men who attempted to seize the litter.

Parikranranum's attendants fought back inside the litter. The princess was thrown back and forth as the two groups battled for control. Peace only came when the attackers revealed that they were acting on the orders of the Shah, and Perikranranum, realizing what was happening, surrendered herself. In a particularicularly cruel twist. She saw that the leader of the group was none

other than her old tutor and guardian, Kalikran. He had been promised Peri Chranranum's entire estate in exchange for orchestrating her death. Peri Chranranum was taken to Khalilchhan's house and kept as a prisoner. Later that evening, a group of Khalilchran's men entered the room and strangled the princess to death. She was twenty nine years old. In the centuries since her death, Peri Ranranum's legacy has been debated by historians. Some see her as a powerful leader, others as a

conniving backstabber. The truth, as always, is somewhere, probably in the middle and definitely more complicated, but her influence and power between fifteen seventy six and fifteen seventy eight are undeniable. As the historian Shariah Golshorki put it in her definitive work on the Princess, quote, it is time to grant recognition to such Safavid women as Peri gran Ranum, who took leadership roles and entered the forbidden and formidable realm

of power and intrigue at the court. That's the story of Pari ran Ranum. To learn more about the fate of the woman who helped organize her downfall, chier Alni Sabagum, listen after a quick commercial break. Once Peri Ranranum was dead, hier Al Ni Sabagum, the new Empress, became the real power behind the throne. Like other Safavid empresses, she would eventually become known as Madhi Julia, which translated to as sublime cradle or the highest ranking credle. It's as Madiulia

that she is most commonly referred to today. As Empress, Modulia built out her network of influence, appointing family members and friends to important positions, gathering information, and dictating political and military strategy. Even as she worked to strengthen the Safavid Empire, she thought constantly of her home province of Mazadaran, which was now ruled by the son of the man

who had killed her father. This man, Mizra Khan, had come to court when Madulia and Mohammed Kodabanda first ascended to the throne to seek forgiveness for his father's actions and get confirmation of his position as governor. Modiulia grudgingly granted both, but her forgiveness was only a facade. Some time later, she appointed a new governor, an uncle of her,

and declared Murzahan's authority to be illegitimate. Murzahan, understanding the potentially deadly implications of this move, hold up in the fortress of Fijah to try to protect himself, but even a fortress was no match for Modiulia's power. She sent a number of troops to the fort determined to starve Mirzakhan out, But when the troops arrived at the fortress, they realized that the siege would be a costly one, and so their commanding officer decided to try to negotiate.

After prolonged negotiations, Murzahan agreed to leave the fort on the condition that the officers present, all of whom held prominent positions at court, would help him plead his case to Modiulia. When Modiulia learned of the deal, she was furious, since she certainly intended to harm Mirzakhan and now she would have to work against her own men to do it. As the group transporting Mirzarkhan made their way to Kasvin, Modulia sent out another group of warriors with orders to

capture Murzakhan and to kill him. When this second group met up with the first, the officers who had sworn to protect Murzakhan on the terms of the surrender, were reluctant to hand him over, but eventually they did so, fearful of disobeying a royal order and also believing that the men wouldn't actually kill the prisoner. They were wrong.

Later that night, the second group killed Murzakhan. The officers present were furious, and though they had been loyal to Modiulia, their loyalty began to waver after what they saw as a betrayal. The assassination was the beginning of the end for Madiulia. It was not the only factor, of course. She made a number of bold moves, some of which were politically imprudent, and it additionally cannot be denied that there was some deep resentment among tribal leaders towards taking

orders from a woman. In mid fifteen seventy nine, a group of Kiselbash leaders issued a shocking threat against the Empress to the Emperor, revealing the extent of their anger. It read, in part, quote, your Majesty knows well that women are notoriously lacking in intelligence, weak in judgment, and extremely obstinate. Maniulia's power and influence in the government of

the realm is objectionable to all the Kiselbash tribes. If she is not removed from power, in all probability, revolts will occur that will be to the detriment of both religion and the state. Removed from power in this case meant killed. Shah Muhammad Kodabanda had no interest in revolt, but he also had no interest in executing his wife.

He offered two solutions. Either he would say and his wife away from cosviin exiling her from the workings of court, or he himself would abdicate and allow the Kisobash to choose a new Shah. Mate Elulia provided a more fiery rebuke, declaring that she would never back down even if it

would cost her her life. Ultimately it did. On July twenty sixth, fifteen seventy nine, only eighteen months after the death of Peigrandranum, Modulia was strangled to death in the palace grounds by a number of Kisobash warriors, who also killed her elderly mother, who was present. Without Modiulia's guiding hand,

Mohammed Kodabanda's reign quickly fell into disarray. Four years later, Kisobash leaders executed his vizier, the man who had warned Mohammed and his wife about Perichrandranum's power rise five years earlier. In fifteen eighty seven, several Kisobash tribes initiated full fledged coups,

which ultimately succeeded in October of that year. Eventually, Mohammed Kodubunda was replaced by one of his sons, a man who, breaking the family bad luck streak, would go down in history as the most successful Safavid ruler, the Shah who would become known as Avas the Great. Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is hosted by me Dana Schwartz. Additional writing and researching done by Hannah Johnston, hannah's Wick, Mira Hayward,

Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The show is produced by rima Il Kayali, with supervising producer josh Thaan and executive producers air Manke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.