NWJ 628- The Manchurian Candidate w/William Ramsey - podcast episode cover

NWJ 628- The Manchurian Candidate w/William Ramsey

Sep 15, 202559 min
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Episode description

In this gripping episode of "No Way, Jose!" (NWJ 628: The Manchurian Candidate w/William Ramsey), host Jose Galison dives deep into Richard Condon's chilling 1959 novel "The Manchurian Candidate," exploring its Cold War paranoia and the concept of brainwashing assassins through hypnosis and ideological programming. We break down the two iconic film adaptations—the 1962 classic directed by John Frankenheimer starring Frank Sinatra, and the 2004 remake with Denzel Washington—highlighting how they amplify themes of mind control and political intrigue. Joined by returning guest William Ramsey, host of "William Ramsey Investigates" and author of acclaimed books like "Occult Hollywood" and "Abomination: Devil Worship and Deceit in the West Memphis Three Murders," the discussion uncovers the parapolitical undercurrents, including whispers of President Kennedy's influence on the story's development and its eerie "revelation of the method" in foreshadowing real-world conspiracies, particularly the JFK assassination just a year after the book's release.

Recorded on the very night of the shocking Charlie Kirk assassination, this episode couldn't ignore the raw timeliness of its themes, as Jose and William draw tentative parallels between the Manchurian Candidate's programmed killers and the unsettling questions swirling around this tragedy—mind control, political motives, and hidden handlers in the shadows. Yet, they emphasize caution: it's far too early for conclusions, urging listeners to approach with skepticism amid the fog of breaking news. Whether you're a fan of occult parapolitics, true crime, or just the thrill of connecting dots across history, this conversation with Ramsey offers provocative insights into how fiction might mirror—or even predict—the darkest corners of power. Tune in for a mind-bending ride!


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Transcript

Speaker 1

You are being programmed.

Speaker 2

Listen speaks fame, a few wells man, a few things.

Speaker 1

Time would be.

Speaker 3

From doom. So leave you show you can I tell your post letten stiff.

Speaker 1

Stuff you get for.

Speaker 2

It's a broken so ways man, I.

Speaker 3

Come back and don't get you the rest of the day. Should let me back time incident.

Speaker 4

You will come out with the pressure drink today. You kin know what's been had for.

Speaker 3

Me before to certain.

Speaker 2

Somewhere my life style for me pleasing live body.

Speaker 3

Lets you know all right style, let me keep my air shunk.

Speaker 1

Are you sure about this?

Speaker 3

Just say.

Speaker 4

Hello. Welcome back to the No Way Hose Podcasts. This is your host, jose Galison. Today we are joined by the great William Ramsey. We've had him on the show a handful of times, so I'm sure we'll have him on more to come. He's wrote a spate of books, a great researcher. Like to consider him a friend, and uh,

we're here on unique times. We are here to cover The Manchurian Candidate, which was a book and a couple movies and obviously it's kind of a concept within our realm and it's kind of we're in a weird time where things are surreal right now, I know this is goes Paywalld. So when this comes out it might be a little bit weird, but I still think it'll make sense today on the recording of this, Charlie Kirk was murdered.

Life just it's recordings, it's a wild but I mean, with us talking about mesuring kind obviously we know nothing yet. But I mean even with that, we have that. You know, there's other things in the nudes. We have the this recent Ukrainian killing and the and the murderer himself is already claiming mk ultra type claims. I mean, this is this, this topic today cuts the root of a lot of this.

Speaker 3

Uh.

Speaker 4

In most parapolitical books when they talk on mk ultra the like, usually it kind of starts around the lore of the Manchurian candidate, and uh, we're cutting through that today and uh, I don't know, maybe it'll be it'll resound uh by the time this comes out, because we are in odd times. But that's enough of that. Let's get William in here. What is up, my friend? We are living in odd odd times. So uh, yeah, I

don't know if you have any thoughts on that. Like I said, I mean, it's weird not to mention it considering the topic, but obviously we know nothing. I think as of right now, there's been I think one suspect that initially they thought might be the guy, and that's kind of seems like that's at least they're not going that now. But it literally just happened hours ago. So

I don't know. I'm gonna be covering. I'm gonna have Ken, Yeah, I'm gonna have Ken Silva on my show tomorrow in the morning show, so my live show, so I'm sure we'll probably have some a little bit more by then. But man, just wild times. But I don't know if any thoughts, if you want it anyway, draw the connections to Manchurian candidate, because as we were talking about, but I mean, there's plenty of other current examples. I think I forgot to

mention Ryan Rauth. He's also seemingly prepper preparing himself for some sort of insanity argument with some of the craziness coming out of the legal ordeal over there lately. I've covered that a little bit on my show. But yeah, I mean, I guess I'm kind of hemming and hauling enough. If you have any thoughts otherwise we can kind of just go ahead and get into the Manchurian candidate. Maybe you can tell us why this is sort of relevant.

I've already kind of already laid that out, but maybe you have more thoughts to set out for it.

Speaker 1

There's a lot going on, so you know, you have to have sympathy for the family of Charlie Cook thirty one, just a guy who's into free speech. So if you're a free speech advocate on that regard, you have to kind of rue the day that this day, there'll be a day of infamy for ever that somebody shot him in the neck and a young guy who never advocated violence really wasn't you know, just to talk or so I think that that's important to remember. And it's still we're kind of still in the kind of fog of

these assassinations and other assassinations. Actually to this day. You mentioned Ruth, we don't know that much about him. Some people have tied him to the State Department. We have crooks which we don't know much about. Luigi Manngioni, Nikita Cassap who was a literal nine to a Niner member who wanted to kill Trump, and killed his parents. You had recently Robin Westman, the trans assassin in Minnesota to Carlos Brown, who said that he had material in his body.

So like he's either prepping for the insanity defense or is insane.

Speaker 4

I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but who knows. Maybe they are mk altering inner city blacks or whatever homeless. I mean, they do. They have a history of targeting, the targeting the down trodden populations. Don't get me wrong, I kind of doubt that, but I mean it's not outside the mo of the indeligence agencies, not at all, not.

Speaker 1

Even at all. And then you have this guy Shane Tumora who went to Black Rock shot people from the NFL. I think he said that he had disappeared, so strange things and even going all the way back. So I used the kind of the fictional elements of man Cheerion Candidate film, the original one that was released in nineteen sixty two. I use that as a device to kind of help people understand what's happening in the present day with this kind of flurry of crazed assassins going after

the president. And now we don't know what's going on with the Kirk, but there it seemed to be a kind of a sophisticated operation. There were other people arrested on there that we're making a bunch of noise as a distraction. So a lot of times, and even in the JFK assassination, which we're coming up on the anniversary soon, yeah, there was he was assassed. I think he was killed at about one o'clock. But before that time, there was a epileptic seizure right in the middle of the street.

So all the cops there and then the paramedics took care of this guy, took him to the hospital. He disappeared and they never found out his name, so he kind of cleared out the area.

Speaker 4

Can't but notice tomorrow September eleventh, too, I didn't even notice into my daughter mentioned. I was like, whoa, it's a odd timing. I don't know, maybe it's just my parent recognition, but I've noticed it passed like a week or two or actually past week has been a pretty big story rehashing from an old story of kind of the old art students that were looking into the nine to eleven, you know, or not nine eleven, the kind of looking to federal buildings shortly before that particularly came

from Israel. So yeah, I don't know why I initially dug into that, but point being is just the the timing, the I don't know, it's it's hard not to notice these pats in this realm. You never know to what degree Am I just giving too much umbrage to things? But I mean dates matter, especially. It always seems to be anniversaries, and it always sometimes they seem to have like a day off, because there's like a few things on April nineteenth, there's a few things on April twentieth.

Then I think there's also some things on tenth as well, September tenth and September eleventh. I don't know offhand, but I vaguely recall there being some I know, you get more into that realm, so maybe you know better than I do. But I just as you're mentioning it just recalled like, yeah, tomorrow is September eleventh, and we just had what I think could very well. I mean, time will tell by the time this especially hits the public in a couple of weeks from now, as opposed to

the patrons. I mean, I've seen some people comparing this to a reichs Dog moment, and I think they're right. The only creepy part about it is when they are these people that I've been seeing a lot of these viral messages of oh, it's a Reichsag. Well, then they're taking and that means now we got to root out the commis, and we got to X, Y and Z and this and that, and you're like, well, you're missing the point of the Reichstag. The Reich's dog is, you know.

I mean, obviously I don't claim to be an historical scholar, but I know many of us, pecially in Aroun, think there may have been some chicanery afoot, perhaps some sort of false flag, and so to take the oh now we must marshal in or usher in martial power because of this event, Well you're kind of taking the bait. And so I think that people are right, this might be a Reichstag moment, but unfortunately like not in the way of like, oh, well now we need to go

attack our enemies. I'm almost a little bit concerned. I'm seeing that narrative take a little bit of feat at this moment too, to be honest, So I don't know. I guess I just threw a lot at you there. But we're in a weird, unique time and I don't know, there's all this stuff kind of ties into it. So obviously I don't want to try to delve into speculation whatsoever because it's very early. But it's hard not to connect the themes.

Speaker 1

Well, I mean, you have to see this. Can you talk a lot about kind of gladiol and strategy of tension, and I think it has to be seen in that. But also is this kind of collective mind control stuff where they're ramping up the chaos for whatever reason and it's actually happening worldwide, but this will really stoke the fire. So but the rights to eggs another show. Yeh, A huge amount of problems with that, Yeah, huge amount of problems with vanderl As.

Speaker 4

He's a patsy exactly what I was driving out, which I have no love loss for Commis, don't get me wrong, but it's like, also, I've studied gladiol and that was most of the time, it's just this low hanging fruit of Oh well, the the stupid conservatives will buy you if you buy it, if you just go it's Commis, then they'll go, Okay, cool, uh, and they just kind of over over and over again. Oh, it's commedy's comings to justify their evil. And just because they're comedis doesn't

mean you can do evil to them. I don't know. Uh, but yeah, sorry, I don't need to keep cuting you off, because there's a lot going through my mind in this given point time.

Speaker 1

So but yeah, I mean, I think that that it is important to look at all these events. I don't know how this is going to play out. Clearly the right is very angry. This guy was a liked person and uh, I mean he was a place where you could shoot them, which is really weird. But it's in the realm of these other shooters. These people are trying to get Trump, they're still trying to kill them. Like

I don't know, me, I don't even know. I know there's public assassins, but how many assassins haven't really been Not all of them are actually the bulge. There was another one that was caught by secret service in DC, and I don't think we ever learned his name. So this will reverberate, I think, And I think before you have these huge societal upheavals, there are steps, like steps

to the Civil War. There were things that happened Harper's Ferry, the Fort Sumpter event, and so I think that this is like one of these ramp ups, like this will be a water mark or it'll be some kind of memory of like, Okay, then Charlie Kirk assassinated, shot in the neck and really gruesome way like it's very ugly stuff.

Speaker 4

Yeah. I know a lot of people might be mad at me some stuff is that I genuinely am like like this is I'm like, this is wild, this is not good. It's really sad. Obviously, I do think I've I definitely have my issues and I've said these you know, had despicable takes on some things. But at this end of the day, he, like you said before, he's never done any violence to anyone. And he might advocate for some and sometimes certain situations where I disagree with that,

but it's just words. If anything, I didn't, I would never want any violence to come to him because if anything, you know, like for me, who has disagree so it takes this counter to what I want. That's going to make him a martyr, uh and kind of lion eyes. A lot of his beliefs, I mean some of which I obviously would like that those things can line eyes, but they are obviously things that I don't But point being is, it's a just what a what a weird time we were entering the years of lead, is what

it seems like. But yeah, it's just tragic. It's just tragic. I mean, it is scary to see our us going in this uh in this this I don't know, this is this direction. It's a it's very weird. We crossed an odd doorway here and I don't like it. But yeah, but it goes back.

Speaker 1

So I think that the man Cheerian candidate. I mean you mentioned numerology. Yeah, book itself and the film are full of numerology. They really are remarkable in that sense. Like in this this was suppressed. The film was suppressed for twenty five years. He was released in sixty two

before the JFK assassination in November of sixty three. And one of the interesting things about the background and one things that why I bring it up, And it's an important cultural artifact and kind of like for parapolitics as well for an innumerable amount of reasons. But it was made with the kind of oversight, an interest of JFKA himself. So he was very close friends with Frank Sinatra, who was kind of the producer. He was kind of the kingpin to get the project done.

Speaker 4

Now about the right, real quick, I've heard this before. Now this was a book before prior, right, well, this was a book that Condon book. Yeah, rich In Condon book.

Speaker 1

See that you bring it up on the if you bring it up.

Speaker 4

On the side to see the cobad sorry, yeah, movie.

Speaker 1

And then here's the slides of the slide. I mean that's Crooks Ruth. He's this I made a couple of days ago before this assassination. Nelms, Chapman, Pinkley, Levelsberger, Jabbar. There's the movie cover. This is the book cover. So and that's Richard Condon right there. So fifty nine. And there's direct quotes from the book in the film. So he put this book out and there's tons of elevens and things like that. So nine to eleven, this is this master number.

Speaker 4

So this was fifty nine. And then the the movie. The first movie was in the sixties, right, what was the early sixties.

Speaker 1

I'm just trying to released in in I think it was November of sixty two.

Speaker 4

Okay, I'm only asking because it's like I'm trying to get a grasp because I mean, obviously I'm getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. But there's a lot of spooky, weird connection type stuff. They're like, how could you almost even know this? And then knowing that it's a movie based off a book, you're like, well, did they change

some things? How far was it? And it's only it sounds like only a few years prior, so I guess it makes it easier for like, if it was decades prior, becomes far more spooky of how did all these weird occurrences seem to line up? Which we'll get into a bit, but I just want to be clear in that. So it's only a few years different, So it's not some like one year difference.

Speaker 1

It's one year difference. Yeah, one year difference between the release of the book and the jfk assassination.

Speaker 4

Okay, there you go, And so okay, so there was a release, all right, Now that ties that that's a good way to match. So I'm assuming then it gets yes, that's right, then it gets released after it. So that's a good way to conceptualize the timeline. The book's written and then the assassination happens about a year later, and then a year and some change later after that the movie comes out. There you go, right.

Speaker 1

The movie was released in sixty two.

Speaker 4

Yeah, so the book is released in.

Speaker 1

Fifty nine, and the assassin an assassination of JFK. Supposedly, what the public was told was he was assassinated by a lone communist nut Lee Harvey Oswald on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. It's pure how was pure nonsense. But one of the interesting things in the overlapping things of the book in the movie is this concept of this Manchurian. This is somebody who's created as a patsy, created as an assassin, and moved into place to assassinate a political figure.

So it's a political assassination is kind of the key element, and that's what ties into these modern events. These are political assassinations. So the Manchurian candidate is kind of like a template if you read it. Condon is very bright. He had a lot of great classical illusions. He's a smart Writer's from of reference is good, but he also knew kind of the For some reason, he was able to distill a lot of the mind control, MK ultra and other things that were happening in the fifties and

seeded into his book. So, even though it's fiction, it reads like fact, and he has characters that portray it's almost like, what's the guy who wrote Jurassic Park or whatever. Well, those books have like a lot of science fact in them even though they're fiction. So I think that that Condon's writing is like that he has that capacity to put it in there. So he has a character by the name of yen Lo who literally is telling these like people like it's incredible. He like relates how he's

inducing them into kind of a hypnotic state. And I can either bring up some videos or some let me see if I can find my PDFs.

Speaker 4

Yeah, if you get a video, we can bring that up. Yeah.

Speaker 1

The uh, it's it's pretty remarkable. In all this, I have like a hypno Oswald thing too. We can go into that, yeah, because we're coming.

Speaker 4

Yeah, obviously I've been some fairy vibes as well. Hypnotism was very much in vogue during this period of time. For sure.

Speaker 1

There was a lot of like public like things like even at Jack Ruby's club, they had an amateur not an amateur but kind of like an entertainer hypnotism, who would hypnotize people if they came in.

Speaker 4

So one of the uh, well, actually I think it was either one or two of the De trou victims were I think I want to say it's two, but I don't know for sure, at least one of them. If it's two, they were kidnapped together, but they had just gone to see a hypnotist just prior before getting kidnapped, and I thought that was some sort of hypnotist show of some sort. But I just thought that, Yeah, hypnotism

in this go hand in hand. Hell, even just recently some of my okay se content I was covering about how they were hypnotizing witnesses on for like possible John Doe two people when you're like, well, are you necessarily trying to get down to the truth, there are here trying to obscure it. So, uh, Yeah, it comes up a lot, for many different reasons, and many of which are more sinister than others.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it comes up. A lot of actually comes up in the JFK event. One of the main handlers of Oswald is this defrocked priest who likes boys. He likes teen boys. That's his thing. He's gay.

Speaker 4

Yeah, Fairy, that's what I was mentioned it. So this gives me fairy vibes already it was getting at yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yes, but it's interesting how close it reflects this book, like the information that's in this book.

Speaker 4

Yeah, well what you mentioned symbolism. I know with Fairy there's very much a lot of like Catholic and religious symbolism. Isn't that seated somewhat throughout the book? Isn't there a character that kind of fills a similar role? Or am I remembering that grit incorrectly?

Speaker 1

David Fairy was a defruct Catholic priest, but he couldn't get back in so he joined something. This is like a non aligned Catholic church fake inversion. He could wear he could wear his stuff, he could wear his his clothes or he could wear his things like, but he couldn't be a Catholic priest anymore. So like, yeah, let me see if I can find these.

Speaker 4

Was there ever anything that implied he's a knight se malta, I mean, it's a it's a it's a reach. I don't think there were was, but I didn't know if maybe there was something you knew because I know the circles he swam in. I was like, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Malta connections because he was kind of swimming that weird dark inverse of of Catholicism, of I don't know what exactly was doing, but he was doing some weird dark stuff and it seemed to

involve his faith. You know, this kind of where people get the concept of things like black masses and stuff. You're like, that makes you think.

Speaker 1

Of Satanic ristuals. There. So he's and outwardly a Christian, but he's doing hypnotic things involving Garrison called very one of the most important people who ever lived because of his involvement in the assassination. And he's featured by Joe petchi Peci in the film JFK. If you remember.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I can't sat on, but.

Speaker 1

It's worth your time. I mean, it's a good overview of the of the thing. If you pulled this up, if you pull up this video, I'll show I'll go over this video with you. Just so the illumina numbers or the occult numerology or the esoteric numerology that's in this book. That's also in nine to eleven, which is tomorrow right at eleven.

Speaker 4

What is the significance of eleven?

Speaker 2

What it was?

Speaker 4

The symbolism of that? Do you know?

Speaker 1

The numerology the importance of eleven. It's a prime number in magic for a variety of reasons. It just pops up all the time, and it's actually integrated into our common culture, very common common culture actually actually, but it goes all the way back to the Golden Dawn and the idea of numbers having power, and eleven was kind of seen as a pernicious number, and it's in this kind of this group called the Golden Dawn. They had

this main guy who wrote a book about it. But then Crowley adopted it and it's in his book of the Law, and it kind of became his prime number, the number of magic, but also the number of the new world order. And so it's really in the occult or the secret societies. It's kind of stayed along as the eleven. The reason that it's important and magic is that it's the coming together of the pentagram and hexagram, or the macrocosm and microcosm, the six and the five

come together. So when you see people's names like A six and a five. They're kind of like Tyler Dirdan or Harry Potter. These are all intentional. They're eleven letter words. They're telling you they're magic. And I think that what Condon is portraying in the book to the thing to people who are in the know, who know the secret society stuff, that this kind of hypnotic post hypnotic suggestion and these type of things are a magical act. They're

basically doing some kind of magical thing. But in the book, I mean, this is total spoiler alert in the book. In the movie, the whole arc of the movie is that Raymond Shaw is the son of a senator and his mother is the wife of the senator. Her name is Eleanor Isslan and she's played by Angela Lansbury, and they're based on like Roy Kohne, who was Trump's kind of area. Literally, Condon writes it in the intro.

Speaker 4

To the book, make nothing of this people.

Speaker 1

Yeah, no, it's incredible. And she's like seen in some like writings as one of the top twenty five villains in Hollywood history. And the man Cheerion Candidate movie, the original one in sixty two was also in AFI's Top one hundred American movies of all Time. In the nineties, it dropped out, but at one point it was considered one of the best movies ever made, which I think is true. I think it is accurate.

Speaker 4

Which is crazy because it did not. It's well known for not doing well because but it's kind of not necessarily its own fault. It's the fault of the JFK assassination and kind of the dark shadow that was cast upon it, and because of it's pretty over the top and what it is.

Speaker 1

But yeah, go on, Sinatra pulled it because of the JFK assassination and his close personal friendship with JFK. But anyway, the true there's in the Korean War, which took place from fifty to fifty three, there's a troop that goes into Manchuria, which is the Chinese kind of state or area above Korea. They're taken there and they're hypnotized and there's eleven men, so like they're portraying to you eleven.

But then Raymond Shaw is handled and brought back to the US and put into place at Madison Square Garden, and he kills other people before he gets into place, but he's basically going to kill somebody for political purposes at the nominating convention, so he's actually going to like facilitate the entrance into power of his stepfather. And there's

really dark stuff in this. There's like the mother is having incest with her dad, and the suggestion is that Raymond Shaw is the product of incest, and she has set in the book she has sex with her son, but they don't show it in the movie, so it's not as obvious the minds of eleven Americans when they're they're reporting at eleven an o'clock all this time, going

to bed at eleven, Raymond Shaw is nine. There's a nine to eleven in this nine hundred and eleven names restricten from the Lissa, Like this guy knows the power numbers, he knows the occult numbers. And also when they're inducing these people into hypnotic states, he has all this stuff for eleven hours and stuff like that, so he understands. He's implying to you that these are magical events.

Speaker 4

This is This might be a stupid observation, but it's made me realize, especially too with some of like the weird code stuff that's come out with like Epstein' stuff is just how uh how convenient AI must be for code these days, especially with numerology. Can you imagine trying to insert code into all your stuff? And he just said, I don't know, throw some numbers in here occasionally a

I'd help a lot. I know it's a stupid commentary, but also the same time there is to stomachs, and I think AI actually probably is helping out the elite to whatever whatever they have next, but probably not. Yeah, so they already have the.

Speaker 1

You know, the AI is data runching numbers like you wouldn't believe. So like the pre crime stuff of Philip K. Dick is now real because they can tell what you're talking about with your friends or your wife or what you're researching.

Speaker 4

You know, Well that's what they were talking about with this. That was one of the angles a lot of people have gone with the Palenteers or with not with Palnenter, but with the recent Minnesota shooting that there there's like this new Palenteer, uh you know, essentially pushing this new product in the aftermath essentially of a prediction some sort

of algorithm type thing. So we are in that creepy Minority report that for me, at least when I was in high school, I remember watching these movies like, Oh, that's wild, that'll be like one hundred years from now. Well, we're kind of basically there.

Speaker 1

So we're past that. I think Palenter is working with like their department, they have contracts with a lot of NSA and DARPA, I think, and so you don't really know what they're doing behind that behind the scenes. I know DARPA was heavily involved in the COVID roll out and a lot of different things like Facebook, so that the sophisticated did like Facebook, I wouldn't even go on there. You're crazy if you have for me, Like Facebook is

such a clown show. I can't even believe anybody's on there, Like I mean, if you know Zuckerberg and Lifelog and all that other stuff. Anyway, the at this key point, they keep having this dream and this is kind of an important thing you see with people who've been tampered with mentally, is their dream states and their reality states are intertwined in a way that aren't normal like normal people do, like they don't have those barriers between waking states.

So the Marco Sinatra plays Marco and at three eleven he has this recurring dream of himself with these like old ladies. But what it is is the dream of how these guys are being hupnotized or brainwashed and he hasn't and he shares starts to beginning to share it with his friends. But it's interesting here. And then here's the seventy seven. So one of the main characters is one seventy seven Medal.

Speaker 4

Of I know there's lots of divisible for.

Speaker 5

The Congressional Medal of Honor in the Korean War with five million, seven hundred and twenty thousand personnel engaged, only seventy seven men.

Speaker 1

We're so honored when.

Speaker 3

I get married to my old lady.

Speaker 1

This is a key sequence. It's really interesting because this is the main character who's been tampered with. Who's the assassin. It's Raymond Shaw, his real name, his actor's name is Lawrence Harvey. And he goes into a bar and plays solitaire solitaires. Kind of the key component where he gets his trigger, which is the Queen of Diamonds. So you see the Queen of diamond motif all throughout the film and the publications and the covers and stuff like that.

But if you listen in the background, the bartender is suggesting stuff, but he says eleven long years, and then the trigger happens, and then Lawrence Harvey goes and jumps in the lake. But listen, listen to the background conversation.

Speaker 4

Got no idea that this guy comes in the same package.

Speaker 5

That is a package deal.

Speaker 4

And for eleven long years, I got this grumk tied around my neck.

Speaker 5

And believe me, it's no bargain. You've got no odea.

Speaker 4

My god, what this guy. I'm sorry, I'm late.

Speaker 5

Kids just got held up in traffic again. So I says, don't please do me a favor, will you? Why don't you go and take yourself a cab and go up to Central Park and go jump in the lake.

Speaker 1

So he pulls that Queen of Diamonds. The bartender's talking in the background, says, go get a cab and jump in the plate in Central Park. And so some of these early documents, even Austin has mentioned this in other show, some of these early Artichoke documents and things like that. The information that's in there is in this kind of stuff where you can trigger somebody through the phone, which is in this movie. And also you can kind of

do highly suit just of states through symbols. So then he goes off.

Speaker 5

Raymond, I don't know why. Yours and the only apartment in New York City without an air conditioner. You know, sometimes I think you came to ask for another century. ChIL Chin Chow or whatever your name is. The steaks ought to be broiled for exactly eleven minutes, no more, no less, on each side in a preheated grill at four hundred degrees.

Speaker 1

So she wants her steaks done at eleven, so that he's he's playing around. These are all in the book too. It's actually really something else, but the fact that these numbers are there anyway, it kind of keys into yeah, these are we can go through the same.

Speaker 4

In obvious parallels. Sir Hans Sir Han with the with what the the the polka dot dress. I believe there was man, Yeah, there was.

Speaker 1

Mostly she walked him in there.

Speaker 4

Yeah, like in my brush. Some sort of weird touch I think of, some sort is what I recall.

Speaker 1

She touched his elbows.

Speaker 4

Yeah that's right, able, Yeah, pinch elbow sounds right because I remember it's some sort of weird because yeah, it's these weird different things, like for that one, it's eleven a queen of diamonds. You know, I'm sure maybe there's some other tell in there, maybe we miss, but a combination of unique things, uh, for example, a pinch on the elbow, a polka dot, a lady in a polka

dot dress. These are very unique things. And uh, you know, I guess if they are able to program to your subconscious enough, they can do something with it.

Speaker 1

What you do, Like, I've done a lot of reading and a lot of these mind control documents, And there's actually a scale it's called the Stanford Hypnotism Scale scale where they test people for pre It's kind of a pre existing condition based on a lot of personality traits. And some people are highly suggestible and hypnotizable, and some people you cannot. You can just talk to them and they'll just be like, what are you trying to do? You're gonna go into a deeper state and they'll just

be like, shut up. They don't. They don't fall for it. They don't. They're not induced into this deeper state of consciousness. Sling was at least they found the right subject. He was definitely a highly hypnotizable subject and he would do all kinds of weird stuff. They were he was in conversation with some guy named radio Man, and he was he was an amateur radio guy. He was also an occultist.

Like he's literally hanging out with famous occultist Manly p All and he's and like there's rumors that he is. According to one researcher, he's at party at the clo House. Yeah, before the Manson killings.

Speaker 4

Well, Sir On wasn't it wasn't Austin. I think he showed you. Did he show you that photo you found of supposedly Sir Han with one of the people in the cupboard or something. I think that you know that from before, and it looks just like them, I swear, if not, next time you talk to him. He has it somewhere. He found a photo I think it might have been like time or something of them together and it's pretty clearly him. Obviously, maybe it's some other guy

looks just like him. But yeah, I mean, obviously there's a Rosa crusionist connections. But there yeah, these I mean.

Speaker 1

The ancient mysterious order of the Rosy Cross that he was taking, Like you know, male order classes from. These guys know a lot of these techniques too. And what you see about this film that's reflected in reality is this kind of concept of an operator or handler. So a lot of these guys, like they're not looked into a lot of these assassin's modern ones, they don't look into who's walking around, Like Chapman we know is handled by like ten people. Oswald, sir Han, Sirhan has tons

of doctors. He's in and out of the hospital. Like these are overt and obvious. But it's reflected in this thing because in the film and book man cheeron candidate because Raymond Shaw, he's taken through through to the Soviet or Iron Block or whatever, the Communist Block, then out to the US in place to the assassin. What does Oswald do. He's at Sugi Air Force Base, which we know we're doing heavy duty LSD experiments, Like they weren't

just like dosing people with micrograms. They would give them freaking massive doss like thousand times over the thing and study them and do horrible stuff. And while Oswald was there, he was in the hospital for iven aerial disease. He had money that he shouldn't have had for his rank in the military. He was going in like whinding and dining at some of the nicer bars. For people who

don't know. At Sugi is an Air Force base in the suburbs of Tokyo, so he's in downtown Tokyo, and a lot of these guys they shipped off a lot of these experiments to universities, state hospitals and also out of the country, so they didn't have any oversight. We know for a fact that at Sugi was dosing LSD because there's a paper and some of these recent releases were dulls. After Olsen was thrown out of a though the cover stories he committed suicide. But Frank Olson was

kind of a whistleblower in fifty three. He's like, what are you guys doing? Is this moral blah blah blah, Well, we're kicking you out of the freaking you know window. After he died, there was a paper that was sent saying cease all LSD experimentation at Atsugi and it was signed by Alan Doles And that's one of the components

of the JFK assassination that isn't integrated. A lot of these people didn't make that tie when they're when they're looking into JFK about the Nights of Malta because there's nights of Malta around and also the MK Ultra stuff. They don't see the pieces of it.

Speaker 4

Did you did you take down that? Do that down? Or did that just come down on its own? I didn't mean to, so I took it. Okay, okay, just make sure because the streamer has been doing weird things lately. But I did have to mention for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I popped over to another thing and looked up something real quick, came back it was down. I just wanted

to make sure that was something I did. I was actually looking up because I couldn't remember the name of the guy and I didn't want to want to butcher it. But Carrie Thornley isn't isn't Japan where he met where he met Jerry or carry Thornley. I don't know why. I always want to call it like a crowderry.

Speaker 1

And it's one of these weird things about Oswald. I am being monitored.

Speaker 4

Yeah, and I'm honing in on the Japan thing because I didn't put those two things together. I've known about like kind of both those but I didn't put two and two together that I think he met him there and you got all these weird experiments going on the same time.

Speaker 1

But go on, sorry, Carrie Thornley would go on to say that he had an implant, was he was tampered with. He was also a discordiant, so you kind of have to take him with a grain of salt. But he says that he was monitored too, and people were like they knew him, like they knew Oswald, Like Oswald had weird things show up and it's like Carrie Thornley is

one of them. So this kind of sophisticated guy is in this uh in the military with Oswald and writs like a book called the Idol Warriors that involves Oswald before the shooting, before nineteen sixty three, and while he's in Soviet Union, Oswald is going like they have documents now that came out just for some more they found them and the documents came out and they are that Oswald's meeting with CIA at Taches in Moscow, Like what are you doing? Something weird is going on with Oswald.

He also was in a hospital at Minsk. They're also doing heavy duty experimentation. They're also involved. Like the rivalry is real, the Cold War's happening, but they're also both doing experimentation. So what's Oswald doing there for eighteen months?

Speaker 4

Yeah, isn't. Wasn't Thornley didn't have weird processing connections as well. I don't know if you've dug he he spooked out.

Speaker 1

Yeah, Robert Anton Wilson is his buddy. Like all these He's in this Discordian religion, which is like the whole idea is to create chaos.

Speaker 4

It reminds me of when I dug into Discordianism. It reminds me of my little bit of dig into Temple of Set. It sounds very much like coded language, some sort of weird infrastructure at play. It sounds like probably not really what it's claiming to be. Yeah. Yeah, some sort of weird mailing list for some sort of weird spooked out something or other is what. It seems like.

Speaker 1

They're all cold adjacent.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Robert Anton Wilson had a lot of very strange rin He was like one of the main Discordians, but he wrote the Illuminatus trilogy and his friends were like incredible man, Like he's friends with Genesis b Oorge and knows everything about Crowley and really scary stuff like he was in Sianta Cruz during all these murders and just really crazy things like but he's friends with Carrie Thornley. After the

death of JFK. Cary Thornton writes a book. But while Oswald is in Russia, there's a woman named mc millan and she ends up changing her name, but she as it. There's like a report she makes about meeting Oswald and and this is before the assassination as well, and she ends up writing a book called Marina and Lee. It's like freaking a huge research piece. It's like four or five hundred pages. What do they find out about her?

She's a full CIA agent on the payroll, she's and so this book is out there like it's going around. It tells the story of Oswald being a communist and how he had secret anger and all this other stuff. But it turns out she's handling them and she meets them when they come back to the US too.

Speaker 4

Wait it's not Ruth Payne, is it right?

Speaker 1

Or you get there? Yeah?

Speaker 4

Because I was like, wait, I know, I'm hazy, Like I don't think that's Ruth's story.

Speaker 1

But like Oswald had like ten handlers he had or people who knew him before the thing. Carrie Thornley goes on to be famous McMillan's The CIA's Files by Demor and Child White Russian ends up in becoming friends with de Mouvier like JFK's wife while they're in New York, and then ends up in Dallas and then gets meet Oswald, and then he introduces Oswald to Paine, who gets Oswald a job at the book Depository. You can't write this stuff.

I mean, it's really incredible. And Paine just recently died within the last week.

Speaker 4

And there's William. They did write that stuff.

Speaker 1

It's like a fiction. I mean, there's a very good book I would recommend. I mean a movie by Max Good called The Assassination in Miss Pain and it shows her background and what she did when she took Oswald to our to Irving, Texas outside of Dallas. That there's a house there that you can actually bring up right now that they've turned into a museum because of its import And it's totally fake, like the like, if you know the truth about the JFK assassination, you have to

see the book depository. And Ruth Payne's house is just complete plastic Disneyland fabrications that that sustained the cover story that Oswald did it.

Speaker 4

So Ruth Paine's home. You said, people should look at what we're saying.

Speaker 1

Look at Ruth Paine's home, Irving, Texas. There's a website.

Speaker 4

Let me see see what I got to see what I mean. If there's something you want to hone in on it, let me know what.

Speaker 1

Just just what the point is is that they can make stuff up like this is like this is the whole story. This is where they supposedly found the rifle of Oswald. Even though Oswald wasn't living there. He was separated from his wife. Marina is close to her. Here's the interesting thing about Ruth Paine. She has a background. She is part of a very wealthy family. The Pains

are Eastern elites. What she doing in Texas and in the movie of Max Good, which I recommend go watch at the Assassin of Pain Ruth Pain in the Assassination, they show her take this trajectory. They follow her back east. She ends up at some like island like where the Wrigleys own the Island, she drives south, she ends up in New Orleans. She literally picks up Oswald and drives them to Irving, Texas and gets them a job at the school but depository. So he's being watched over the

whole time. David Ferry one of the core elements of the Garrison criminal trial against Clay Shaw Knights of Malta also Dulus Knights of Malta. One of the key elements was to establish this nexus between Shaw, Banister Faery and Oswald. He was trying to put him together. They said they didn't know each other and all this total total boloney, and fairy knew Marcelo, who RFK had sent out of

the country, so Marcella was pissed. He's a really hardcore mob boss in a very shady town and I don't know if New Orleans, but you talk about corruption, de Hey has a grudge. He has a total grudge. On the day of the assassination, Fairies actually in court with Marcello for some reason. He's in and out of court because he had a problem. He had this this fetish for teenage boys and it got brought up in his

career against Eastern Airlines. He was a major pilot, like he was literally a captain of like transporting hundreds of people on flights like like you would see it.

Speaker 4

Yeah, he was a commercial airline pilot.

Speaker 1

In addition to other stuff, Like the guy was a real adventurer because he was running guns. And Daniel Hopsaker wrote a book called Barry and the Boys about Barry Seal, and he says that both Ferry and Barry Seal were not CIA, you know, contractors, they were full agents. And I believe that I think Shaw was too, like he was either under the employed. Shaw's background is really incredible.

He was and this is left out of a lot of researchers, but he worked as an aid camp for a heavy duty general named Thrasher who was overseeing Operation Overlord, which is the invasion of Europe in June forty four. And he had he was awarded he I mean, he was gay, but he had all these other awards like as a as a as like an effective you know, he was a major, Like he was an effective member of the military. I don't know what his deal was, but he rose up the ranks as a smart guy. He was a smart guy.

Speaker 4

This fairy or.

Speaker 1

That's that's who Garrison went after and Garrison then Shaw counter sued him for defamation and there was like all these cases, they really harassed the crap out of Garrison, And I think Clay Shaw died in seventy five and Fairy mysteriously died once the once Garrison took up the criminal case against Shaw, and there's pictures of Shaw being cuffed and stuff like that, and then Fairy all you know,

mysteriously died but he didn't get popped. But anyway, the rumor is, and that's never been proved, we know that Fairy went to some place in Houston on the day of the assassination, and the rumor is that the assassination squads were driven south, put in planes and flown to Mexico. Yeah, and X, you know, X filtrated out of the country with the help of Faery.

Speaker 4

Yeah, because it's usually presumed either Ferry or Berry I think had some sort of help and you know, getting them to and from or something like that. Yeah, that's I believe.

Speaker 1

But it's weird too, because like these guys have this really shady background, but they're both commercial air pilots and they're both coming out of cap right, which is kind of a pseudo Gladio to like stay behind network thing. Then there's a famous picture of Faerry with Oswald at cap in like nineteen fifty five, so Fairry knows Oswald very well for eight years. Like it's really incredible, incredible stuff.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it is weird looking back at the at the Civilian Air Patrol and like looking at it's weird it still exists. I really don't even understand it's I didn't even know it was a thing. I remember they showed up when I was in the military Air Force. They showed up to a few like the air shows that they would force us to help us, and it was just I didn't even know the thing. But apparently it's some sort of civilian Air Force of some so, but I think it was kind of born out of that

World War two post World War two mania. So it's like it does close like Gladio.

Speaker 1

It has that Gladio esque it's not a formal thing, but it has that. There's a lot of generals behind it, and it's almost like an elevated boy scouts, like they were finding young people to learn how to fly. That was it, you know, to bring them up. And Seal was one of them. Seal was a great pilot, there's absolutely no question about it. And it's a side story of this. He was part of the cap I think in Baton Rouge where these guys were New Orleans, so

it's like one city over but still Louisiana. It's very odular Seal. So these guys have this crazy background Shaw Fairy, cel de Moor and Schildt, McMillan, Thornley and then one of the other crazy things that you've got a lot of people oversea. I think it's shaped this way. Is not to bring it up, but like Doulas was big time in the world. So he was you talked about the Reichstag fire. Yeah, well Dulas was in Switzerland as the kind of oss at tache. He was a spy

and he was also a white shoe lawyer. Like he's a very interesting guy. I don't think he's a good person at all. His nickname was his shark, like that's with how they saw him, like an emotionalless killer type. But he was in Switzerland and he was running these agents, so he had connections and all this stuff, and he was actually involved in paper clipping and post war stuff.

And this guy that they had who was going to They were trying to get rid of Hitler and it's called we know it his Operation Valkyrie, but it was the June nineteen forty four plot where they tried to blow him up, blow up Hitler but he survived. That was a lot of stuff he was behind that. Dulas was involved in that with this guy, he's kind of lost to history. His name is Javisius, I think it was his name. And he actually fingered a lot of people for Nurremberg trial and getting hung.

Speaker 4

He was a real he.

Speaker 1

Would sell out his own people for whatever. Like he just seems an interesting guy anyway.

Speaker 4

This Dolls is super notable for screwing people out of the rat lines too. So I know the you know, Galadio connections. People like to make the through line from the Nazis to there. It's kind of everything kind of kind of plays out there. I mean, hell, even the mind control Mancharian candidate aspect of this. We can even pull the timeline back further to you know, essentially a Nazis prior to World War two.

Speaker 1

Very good. Absolutely, they were involved in a lot of Mescalin operations LSD, A lot they were involved in these secret documents. But after the war, one of the strange things is that Hess, if you remember, tried to take this flight in nineteen forty one, a strange flight number three Nazi, like the third most powerful person in Germany, gets on a Messerschmid and flies to northern Scotland to try to negotiate a treaty with the Brits to keep them out of the war. And it's it's a ruse.

It's actually set up in part I think by Ian Fleming believed it or not, wh who spoke with fluent German and like new astrology, and so he like set up the fake astrology to make Cass believe these astrological signs were right, and got him on a plane to go there. And then Crowley, Alister Crowley sends a letter to uh Ian Fleming's boss and says, hey, if you want me to interrogate this guy, let me know I know everything about the occult talk to GFC Fuller and

all this stuff. It's actually in the records. It's actually an interesting footnote to history. It never happened, according to as far as I know. But one of the other things, not only Crowley wanted to do the interrogation. Who does DoLS get to bring and do the interrogation of Hesse and try to figure out if he's saying or not off for he's lying none other than you and Cameron than notorious like death Doctor from McGill. So like this

guy was brought in like by Dolas. Doles friends with you and Cameron, and at that time he had this lover Dolas did who was friends with with Ruth Payne. Her name is Bancroft and they were friends in the thirties. So there's a direct tie between DoLS and Ruth Pain and through it's through this woman Bankroft, who then went

on to be friends with Luce. And it's an incredible tie because nobody brings up this Bankraft woman whose autobiography is signed and she talks about Dolls and his personality and all that stuff, and herd autobiography is called the Autobiography of a Spy and she's best friends of the Ruth Payne and so like this is like so you

can see this whole how ornate and how sophisticated. The the conspiracy against against JFK was like these were big type players who were really wanted to see him dead, and then you see some of the sophistication reflected in these more recent assassinations, like you don't know about some of these people, you don't know who the real shooter is. I don't even think Oswald was the real shooter.

Speaker 4

He was supposed to.

Speaker 1

Yeah, he was supposed to get killed on the day of the Friday of the twenty second. I think he was supposed to get killed leaving the book depositor and going back to his place, and then they were gonna supposedly a hero and I think it was bungled. And then they bungled trying to kill him at the Texas Film Theater where he went to next and the shot went off and it didn't kill him, and so then they got really nervous, and like I think Ruby was

a sign like, hey, bro, you gotta do this. You got to take one for the team.

Speaker 4

All right, Well, well, I think we'll probably bring this in for a landing. But I do have one last question, and I guess if there's anything else you want to go into. I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are, because you know, when we started and the question I kind of asked to try. I guess the solid timeline because just it still racks my head just kind of

trying to conceptualize what the fuck even happened here? Really, because we have we have you know, like like I went over the timeline, you have the the fifty nine book, and then like sixty is she died? And but we have you know, we have JFK really pushing this too, so you're like, what what happened here? Is this? Like obviously we don't know, but I just kind of like, what are your what are you? What do you make

of all? Because it's like, does this guy like trying to use the film to tell the world about what's going on? And then there was some double take of the powers that be go, well, haha, screw you, now we're gonna use this to write the tale of your death. Like, I know, just very bizarre. Just what is going on here?

Speaker 1

I think you're onto it. I think that he was supporting films in the culture that reflected information he was aware of and that he wanted publicized. So not only one of the interesting things about John Frankenheimer, so it was JFK. Sinatra, Sinatra, Frankenheimer gets these great actors. Frankenheimer after he's done with mancheering Candidate, he then goes on to another film that was supported Ferreckenheimer's The Left Winger. He's a friend that he's a Democrat, like a die

hard Democrat. He goes onto another film called Seven Days in May, which is about the overthrow of the United States government by military coup. And so I think and actually JFK wanted that film done, and then he actually took a weekend off away I think, from the White House so that Frankenheimer could bring in Kirk Douglas in film at the White House. So I think then that film ended up being released in January of nineteen sixty

four with Doctor Strangelove. So I think all those things were percolating in the Cold War, nuclear fear, mind control. It's very heady environment. But I think that JFK, much like these other politicians that we don't see, we generally don't say. I don't think most people know JFK's involvement in films getting made, much like other presidents or other assets or CAA. It's coming more and more to the forefront.

But I think he's trying to juice the culture with information and concepts that he saw and his thinks like I don't know if he sat down and looked at all the mind control stuff that they were up to, but he had to have access to it as a president or being aware of it. He knew about Operation Northwood, so he knew about false flags. He knew about the dangers of the CIA. He said things that got him in real trouble, like I want to destroy the CAA,

Like these guys are cold warriors. Man. That you're saying like things that are very insentiy andcendiary. And RFK did the same thing. He said, I'm a revolutionary and like we can't have a revolutionary in the government, like come on, man. One of the interesting things, Frankenheimer is a key player in this whole whole story about the man cheering candidate as director, because he drove RFK to the Ambassador on the night of the death in sixty eight and while

he was there. This is according to Ed Sanders, who wrote a lot about Manson family. He wrote a book called The Family. But Ed Sanders tells the tale that while Frankenheimer is at the Ambassador, which is torn down of course, that you always tore tear down like the crime scenes. While he's at the Ambassador Sir Sirhan walks by him and brushes into him and Frankenheimer. After the event, he's like, did what I do fictionally really turn into fact? And I think the answer is yes.

Speaker 4

Well, this is a this is a weird world we're in. I appreciate you joining me today, William. If let people know where they can find you, any final closing thoughts, if you have anything else to drop otherwise, let people know where they can find you. I appreciate you joining us. I mean we could probably pick away at all sorts of different you know, ways to comment on this topic.

But I don't know. I'm still reeling from today's news and it is like, I don't know, I don't want to overattack it, but yeah, this is a this is

an interesting composite. Actually, one thing I did want to hone in real quick's not even a question, but from the perspective of him telling kind of revealing the truth, keep in mind kind of you know, as you describe the plot here, somewhat it's like this guy is what the son of a of a senator or a senator's wife a senator and like there's kind of this weird

sexual backdrop of you know, clearly brainwashing. And so it's almost like, if you if you've been following this show for a while, and probably your show as well, the sort of thesis is that we've developed over what the hell is going on in the up in the upper

echelons of the elite. I think that's kind of we're kind of seeing that perhaps with what JFK was telling us there possibly so, I mean, so if you look at it from his perspective, I think he may have been to some extent telling us of a lived experience. So and I think his family is I think kind of somewhat newer money somewhat if I recall correctly, So perhaps maybe it was a they were new in the

whatever that hell that network is? That network? Yeah, yeah, so but anyways, I just I just thought it was interesting that it's like, I guess that would make sense from the perspective of a of a JFK or something. But I mean, with that, let people know where they can find you at. I'm sure we'll have you on again at some point sometime soon. But yeah, appreciate your time.

Speaker 1

Yeah, thanks thanks for having me. I could do like thirty hours on this Yeah, I just give you, gave you the abridged view, but yeah, William Ramsey Investigates is the podcast. I got five books on Amazon, five books on my website William Ramsey Investigates. You can buy signed copies there and then my Patreon. I have five documentaries and that's where I post stuff that I won't post post on social media.

Speaker 4

So well, like I said, I appreciate you joining us. For those who want to support this show, leave a like, share, subscribe, comment, leave a five star review on iTunes or Spotify. You can also follow me on Twitter at taraging Jose. If you want to support the show, and the best way you can you can do that with money over it patron dot com just no Way Jose twenty twenty. The lowest level is two bucks. With that you get access

to early episodes. I usually do one to two pay walled episodes a week, keep about four behind and paye only given time. Just like this episode. You also get access to the ad free RSS feed and to the Telegram, and you get access the pre show, post show and video calls I mean Austin's weekly Live Collin Show Already Dead. And also you get big show up. My sponsors is

a big thank you for everything they do. I had my previous coast on targeting at Learned to Toad, also at abregate D's at zo v r A. C K at Zeal Tim Tittle at John Clee Bold Will Belts this's just Booby Rabdi Wine, big fan of the show tourmente at Wayne Tacos not massage. Actually no, I forgot that's supposed to be because he likes to fed Jack. It mean he changed it. It is now. God, what was the last book you covered?

Speaker 3

Uh?

Speaker 4

The was it? The The Catcher of the Rye? And I'm sponsored by the Catcher of the Rye. And with that, we're out of here. I love you all.

Speaker 1

We'll see you on the next one.

Speaker 4

Yea, rest in peace, Charlie Kirk. Obviously we are disagreements, but Geez Louise did not deserve that. That is awful. But yeah, we're out here, Bye bye peace.

Speaker 1

What do you think

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