No Way, Jose.
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Hey guys, it's Jose Galison. This is no Way Jose. Tonight. My guest is Jeremy Slate. The title the episode is Rome Is Burning. I figured today we'd take this opportunity to kind of focus on the changing of the guard when it comes to the Empire, maybe maybe equating that to looking to the past and seeing what what what parallels there are. So with that, I brought Jeremy Slaye
on to talk about Rome. But with that, before we get into it, I do remind you guys, today's episode has brought to you by Nadou shave Co. If you tire that razor burnt irritation with ingrown hairs that are caused by those deep penetrating multi bay cardes, then this is the way to go. You can return to the additional shaving. Can shave just like your grandpa used to, whether you're shaving your whole face or edging up your beard. The single blades provide a barber grade shave for a
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your entire order over nado shaveco dot com. Let them know I sent you. It's a great product. I highly recommend that. Well, with that, let's go and get Jeremy in here and get to it. What's up, man, How you doing?
Hey man? Thanks for having me so to be hanging out.
Yeah, it's a long time coming. You've been kind of kind of been on the radar for a while. I think, No, I don't know, And I think maybe it was one of the tim cast times you came shortly after me or something. We've we've almost crossed paths a few times, we've been in similar spheres, So it's kind of been a long time coming that some point, and I think I kind of swooped to you a kind of a great time to kind of have this conversation. As I kind of mentioned in the intro, we're at a weird
time on Monday. I mean, obviously these episodes get paywalled, so patrons, you know, this makes sense for you, for people who are watching this in the future, you know it'll be it'll you know, Monday, you know it'll be Monday in the past for you. Monday in the future for us is when when Donald Trump is coming in and Biden's going out. So we're kind of at a weird transitionary state. So I figured maybe there and we
can look to history for some sort of examples. But I mean, before we get into that, Jeremy, I guess if you could let my audience know a little bit about you, kind of what you're about, kind of why I would bring you on for a conversation like this. Yeah.
So my master's is in the Roman Empire.
I studied why people worship the emperor and how Augustus was able to set up a system where people basically worshiped him. He likely didn't believe and of the propaganda he was saying, but he was just smart enough to know how to use it to control people. And what I do day to day is I run a company called Command Your Brand. We are a pr and firm for the podcast space. We've been doing that since since twenty fifteen and typically live in New Jersey. But right
now I'm in Hollywood. So it's been an interesting few weeks of breathing smoke and seeing flames coming out of the side of mountains and yeah, that's me right.
Well, I guess I could dig in that a little bit on the fires. What's that about, Is there is any sort of reason you're over there over in Hollywood or I mean, I don't know, if you've got some sort of project you're working on or something. I don't know.
I a house swap with a friend that always wanted to live live in a farm, so I live on a farm in New Jersey.
So I'm out here in LA.
And I thought it would be, you know, just kind of go to Hollywood for a bit, but apparently when I arrived here, I came here in September and we're staying for the month or so. But it's been interesting, to say the least. The homeless people are special kind of crazy out here. I got to say that I've encountered at least two with swords and I did getting on the the the one on one highway the other day put out a fire on the side of the road, a brush fire that so I guess somebody had started.
And it's been a wild experience out here. Man.
Okay, Well, as you said, your thing is Rome. So I guess kind of just start with I mean, we were talking a little bit before, and I kind of, as I said, I said in the beginning, before we even started this kind of don't know shit about Rome. I kind of know what we learned about in high school. I kind of know that there's you know, they always will bring up Rome as an example of there's parallels between our governmental systems. You know, this is where democracies,
but this is what they we're told in school. I mean, I'm sure maybe other entities had it before then, but I guess that's probably one of the most popular entities that had something along that. Probably when we look to empires, this is what we're gonna look to as well. So this comes up frequently, and you know, kind of an empire rising and falling, which is kind of where we're at right now. So there's a lot to be said
about that. But I guess I guess to challenge, I just kind of give a breakdown, I guess of Rome. I guess it is a general breakdown. What kind of time frame are we talking about with Rome? I know this sounds really pedantic, but most people, I feel like, probably don't even know the minor details of Rome at all. So I mean even just backing up and going, oh, these are the general details about what Rome is, what kind of governmental systems that had throughout the times, and et cetera, et cetera.
Well, no, I think that's really important because honestly, like I've been having these conversations for the past year and a half and really the thing I'm finding is when I started this, I was kind of like, oh, I think people see these comparison points to Roman where we are now. And the thing I found out Jose is it's not that people don't see the comparison points.
Most people don't even know what Rome is.
They just kind of think it's like a TV show that was on HBO like twenty years ago, or you know, Julius Caesar was the first emperor, which he wasn't. So if you look at Rome, it's essentially three eras in time. It's a kingdom first, then it's a republican, then it's an empire, and empire is kind of that like final stage. It's about five hundred years in time that we talk
about most often. But at the same time, our government is based largely off Rome's Republic, which the Romans and Greeks like to fight about who had the idea of democracy first. That's why the Romans say they had it in five h nine BC and the Greeks say they had it in five oh eight BC, and that's why they kind of fight about who had it. But if you want to look at what Rome is, initially, it's founded in seven fifty three BC by a guy named Romulus.
He may or may not have been real because when Romans didn't know, you know, why they do certain things, you know, why do we have these traditions, why do we do these certain things? What it's because Romulus created it. So there's a history and I've been reading for you years. His name is doctor Mary Beard, and she talks about you know, is he this mister Rome character, this person that they don't really know who to attribute all these
things to. So they kind of just made him up, right, Like they kind of just made him up and you know, kind of been like.
Uncle like Uncle Sam happened upon this the stretch of land and we called the United States. Yeah, exactly.
So traditionally he's the first of the seven Kings of Rome. He's actually the least likely to have existed. The final king is a guy named Tarquin the Proud, and he's taken out of power by a guy named Brutus. A little foreshadowing that's gonna be the same family that's gonna take out Julius Caesar way down the road. But that's in five oh nine when it ceases to be a kingdom monarchy.
And then then it is a republic and then demand right.
But not monarchy, like not monarchy like you would think monarchy, you know, like not we're not like King Charles type of stuff. Like we're looking at like remember the movie Brave Heart and kind of how the warlords had like these little like places they lived. It would have been more like that. It would have been like more feudal systems warlords. They didn't live in stone buildings, not.
A constitutional monarchy, and the monarchies of today aren't really even monarchies whatsoever, Like right, yeah, yea.
So yeah, they would have they would have they would have lived in huts, they wouldn't have had any stone buildings or anything like that. So then it becomes a republic in five oh nine. The Senate is this advising body that was meant to originally advice king, so that carries over from the kingdom to the Republic. But essentially the republic is a system where there's two people that are the main people in charge and they're in charge for a year.
They're called the consuls.
There would be an election every single year where they would decide who these new two people are and their dating system. They actually marked the year by who the two guys are in power, so like the consulship of Galisson and Caesar would have been, you know how it would mark the year and that would how they decide what it is. They also have a basically a track you would go through if you're going to get into
political office. You would hold your first political office at thirty five and you would go through something which is called the courses and orum. Many different political office you would go through until you could ever be console. So there's a lot of tradition to it. Rome didn't have a written constitution. It was basically just all this is
the way we do it. They called it the most mayoram or the ways of the Ancestors, and that's essentially the system but now when you think of a republic, it's in a lot of ways very oligarchic, if that makes sense, because there's about ten to fifteen percent of the population that could actually read, and of the Roman population, if you want to look at the class breakdown, the two classes that we see are thetisi, the patricians, and
the plebeians. The plebeians being the poorer people. The patricians were about ten to fifteen percent of the population, So.
You get things like people say, you plead correct the expression comes from ausum.
Yeah, So there wasn't really much representation of plebs. There is an office created later on called the Tribune of the Plubs, but many times that office could also be held by a patrician, so go figure. They didn't actually have any representation. So it really ends up being, you know, it's much more i guess even than the empire is, and it's more even than the kingdom is, but it's still really an oligarchy.
Of the rich in a lot of ways. So that's the republic phase.
Now, the last one hundred years of the republic, which is one thirty three to thirty one, you have what's called the Roman Revolution and Basically what this is is rich people fighting out in the public sphere for who gets to be in charge. The guy that comes out on top is Julius Caesar, but he comes out on top in a way that he ends up dying.
He is assassinated in a.
Forty four b SAT and in his will Mark Antony expects to expects to be named his heir, but it's not him. The person that's named his air, that gets his name is a guy named Gaius Octavius. He's going to take the name Augustus, and he's going to be the person that's going to create what becomes the Roman Empire.
The Roman Empire is going to last from somewhere around there's the dates of the beginning of the dates to the end are argued about somewhere between thirty one BC and twenty three BC and ends somewhere around four seventy six AD.
Is kind of that empire phase.
Now, the Eastern Empire, which is we modernly call the Byzantine Empire, doesn't actually get that name until the sixteenth century because historians wanted to figure out a way like, well, how do we show the differentiation between it between it and Rome? Since it's very Greek. But the Eastern Empire would have lasted until fourteen fifty three, after they're split in the early three hundreds.
So the Eastern lasted longer, lasts a lot longer.
Okay, yes, but it's now it's very different.
It was more Greek and Greek.
It's more Greek, and it would have been very different structurally, as you know, compared to how the Western Empire function. But it is essentially they would have called themselves Romans.
Yeah, because the Romans, I mean, this might be getting a little bit off tractive overview, but the Romans kind of, you know, in their stage of empire. From my understanding is they wouldn't completely try to root out the culture of an area they took over. They would kind of incorporate it. So it would make sense I would assume, I mean, I mean, I'm kind of just making a lot of assumptions here. The Greek the area lasted longer.
I would assume they sort of subsumed some of their prior governmental systems and maybe in some ways that fusion maybe made it a little bit more robust. I don't know any thoughts. I'm just that's the only thing I can think of is that maybe they kind of like institution the institute their forms of governments, and that kind of set them apart or something along those lines because they were at more like city type states I believe in that type of area so well.
Though a lot of those So if you want to look at like Greece is essentially an older society than the Roman culture, and but then it outlives them too, which is kind of funny. But if you look at how how Greek culture goes, kind of the high point in Greek culture is the three hundreds and four hundred s BC. It's kind of a exists, but it's not doesn't exist in anywhere near that that high period, and in the like around three I think it's like three
fifty eight or something like that. It's it's actually conquered by Philip the Second of Macedon the Macedonia who's the father of Alexander the Great, so it becomes kind of a subservient culture of Alexander the Great. So after his conquests, Alexander conquers much of Europe, much of Asia Africa, but doesn't live long enough to really rule this empire he puts together, so his generals actually break apart this empire. There they're called the Dia Docoi or the successors of Alexander.
They break apart his empire. And what's going to happen is over time, Rome is going to gradually take in these these empire states and they're going to become part of the Roman kind of Roman area of things. You're going to have, like there was a king that actually wills what's left of his Hellenistic kingdom to Rome before it becomes an empire. But during the empire phase they're going to bring in a lot of these other areas that are the last ones to survive is the total
Maic kingdom, which is where Cleopatra would have been. So that comes in around thirty one, which is around that Battle of Actium when it becomes an empire. So it is absorbed, but that culture is going to stay part of the Roman Empire. So a lot of Romans would have not just spoken Latin, they also would have spoken Greek.
You would have spoken Greek if you were more cultured. Now, I guess, looking toward the other side of things, the reason that I think the Eastern Empire survives a lot longer is they handle monetary policy a lot better than
the Western Empire. The thing that they do. I had a long conversation with Clint Russell about this about it vas what comes back to economics, because if you look at it, the thing that Constantine does, he becomes emperor in three twelve, and in three fourteen he starts minting gold coins and he's going to do a few every year until he dies in three thirty seven, and he forces people to pay taxes in gold so that they're not hoarding it, which is something that happened in the
Western Empire. And because of that, that currency is going to last until about the year one thousand, which is about the time of the great Great Schism. I think it's like ten to fifty three is a great schism till about then you're going to have a money that goes without inflation, which so that's one of the reasons that the Eastern Empire survived so long.
And it also would have been more like it would have been closer to what medieval kingship looks like.
If you want to look at how the Eastern Empire would have looked in relation to what the Roman Empire would have looked like.
Well, that I guess kind of brings it back to even the next point I wanted to kind of get at, and then I don't even know if this is really the point for conversation so much as an observation this show, especially when the show started out as being far more of like a theory show. I mean, I don't assume you know much of the show. The show has become
more of like a parapolitics conspiracy show over time. Started as more of like a you know, a political theory, but really at the end of the day, it's just my podcast. That's whatever the fuck I want to talk about. But it's become more more conspiracy over time. But it started as more theory, and so a lot of people have
been falling along know my positions on things. No, I'm at heart an anarcho capitalist libertarian, I mean not talk about all the time because I just find it kind of kind of gay, but like you know that that is where I'm coming from. So I do believe that I am am a Hopian in the sense that and that I do believe monarchy is is preferable to democracy, and then like and anarchy is preferable to monarchy. So I'm actually that's like, that's my hierarchy. So it is
kind of funny that which I don't even know. I don't assume you to have this take at all, and you know these are my positions, but it is kind of And then typically the breakdown of governments is as presented here by Rome. In this situation, we have a monarchy that then becomes a republic that then becomes a democracy essentially, you know. And then obviously before a monarchy, there was anarchy essentially, so you can kind of look
at as like a cycle. So it is kind of funny that we know, Rome is this country that we typically use as a as a a pair more of cyclical things. And now you know, literally even here, even in the forms of government, kind of goes through a traditional form of monarchy republic then uh than into democracy. So and then I'm assuming I would assume you probably could tell me that democracy may have gone to gone a little bit out of control in some places and
gone into almost direct democracy. I'm assuming you're more of a constitutionalist type guy, so you're probably familiar with the arguments against direct democracy and the like. Sure, and is that is that something that did find a root in Rome? Or not.
That wasn't really a thing in Rome. It is something that happens a lot more in Athens. If you ever get a chance to look into the to the tyrants of Athens, they only have like pure democracy I think for like twelve years.
So I never fully went to the cycle of director because then it falls into communism, and then it doesn't.
It isn't It isn't even that it falls into communism. It falls into like like that.
The word tyrant actually comes from these guys that were that were basically ruling Athens. It falls from democracy right in the anarchy pretty quickly. And this this this word they use for their monarchs as a tyrant. And I've often looked at it as kind of like the life
cycle of government. If this makes sense, Like, yeah, you can look at it as a republic kind of disintegrates to a democracy, a democracy kind of disintegrates to an oligarchy of sorts, and then an oligarchy eventually when they decide who's going to be in powered, you're going to have a monarch of some sort.
It just kind of goes that direction.
Yeah, uh, I guess, yeah, you do have more than conventional understanding. I disagree, but I'm not going to try to talk you into affice. Take on things. I do find monarchy preferable, so I do see as like a falling apart if you look at things like World War One. World War one is typically seen amongst our crowd is kind of like the falling of the monarchies and into democratization.
So you do kind of see that as well. So and the idea being is that it was preferable that before then, so a lot of these have fallen into a state of democracy. Democracy is not preferable. Republic is preferable to democracy, though, but then you know, monarchy is preferable to this is I recommend people go check out my Hopa reading series. I've done that with Toad. I need to finish that at some point. Go read Democracy
of the God That Fails. Great book, but I just I had to point that out for my theory heads out there that I just thought it was interesting that I kind of followed that traditional track. It kind of went through almost the full cycle. I guess it didn't kind of completely devolve into like you know, communism or something along those lines. Didn't completely perfect it, but damn near.
But with that As I said earlier, we kind of had this weird point in time we're I guess it's like before we started I was kind of mentioned how I think we're an awakening inflection point, Like if a lot of things that are are common conversation now that five to ten years ago, like if you told you pass self this, you just be blown away that anyone's
talking about this. Like I'm you know, before we started recording, we're talking about like child trafficking rings, and it's like like I've become so knowledgeable and that stuff in the past like year, and this is all stuff that I just like would never even have believed to existed. And this is like real stuff. These are stuff you can
find receipts for. Uh and uh and people are starting to find people are really starting to pick up on pattern recognition and realize who these people are and that
these are the elite, that these are the people. These are the lizard people that are pulling the strings or whatever you want to call them, and uh, they are the rat that is in our you know, that hangs up at the tippy top, the ones who controls us uh and uh, it just is I'm just kind of curious, is you know, with you know, the the the the constant theme here being cyclical stuff. Was there something along
those lines too with Rome? Was there a time where you know, the populace really started just to be realized, like, what the fuck are these things that are above us?
I had this conversation with with Shane Cashman the day too about like, I'm I'm like that friend that believes every conspiracy theory.
Like, I'm I'm that if you if.
You have that, So I'm I'm that crazy friend, right like and like and like and but a lot of them right, But I'm saying, like ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, I was crazy and now I'm just like really cool.
Like I don't know how it's to putting me. I'm like vindicated in a lot of ways.
But anyway, if you want to look at in my opinion that the time that kind of mirrors most what we're seeing in Rome with what we're first what we're seeing now. Obviously, history doesn't repeat directly. It's not like that that map in the mall you walk up to, this says you are here. It does rhyme in a lot of ways. I look at the third century quite often So the third century is you know, the two hundreds. So after one ninety three computist who's the son of
Marcus Aurelius dies. He is not killed in the arena by someone named Maximus. That doesn't happen, but great movie anyway, though he's They try to kill him multiple times and finally succeeded the last time. They convinced his girlfriend the poison him doesn't work, so they give them too much
poison and too much wine, so he throws up. They eventually kill him by having a wrestler strangle him, and even Edward Gibbon the Road to Decline involved the Roman empires say says, this is like the moment when Rome starts to go on that slow grinding collapse, which is going to take a while to get there because you're looking at almost two hundred years. But in the third century, what starts to happen is there's the rise of this type of emperor, like a new type of emperor. They
call them the barrack emperors. Men that ruled just because they have enough military power. And the way that you get power is you pay the military and you build a bigger military. So each general has their army declare them emperor. So you have all of these guys saying I'm emperor, I'm emper, I'm emperor, and you have them enlarging the armies. Well, Rome had just been through a plague not too long before that in the one sixties.
They'd lost ten percent of the empires. They'd lost a lot of fighting men, and they have to bring in barbarians to start fighting in the in the legions. They'd always fought alongside the legions and something called the Roman auxiliary. But they're brought into the regular legions. And the first these barrack emperors is a guy named Septimius Severus. He's from North Africa, and what he ends up doing is
he starts this process of basically debasing currency. So what they would do is clip pieces off of coins and add other metals to coins, so it would kind of like look the same or way close to the same, but it didn't have the same metal content. So then he doubles the salary of these new legions that aren't even fully Roman. And that's going to create a problem now where each successive emperor is going to raise the pay of the legions, raise the size of the legions
and the military is massive. The amount of money they need to pay them is massive, but the money isn't worth very much by the time you get down the road.
As I mentioned, we started this process at one ninety three AD.
By the time you get to two eighty four AD, the inflation rates about fifteen thousand percent and the silver coin has about five percent actual silver content. So what you've really done is you've had immigration gone wild, you've had inflation gone wild, and you've had kind of just a weak person trying to control this empire and not
very much going on. So to me, I think that parallels a lot because you also have to consider one of the biggest problems that Rome had that no one seems to talk about is the Praetorian Guard function very much like a deep state in the way that the praetorian Guard, responsible for protecting emperors killed seventeen of them and replaced them with men that they wanted to be
on the actual throne. So you know, you have to look here, So we're good well because even like you look at look at Trump, like he tries to do a lot of things last time, and what do they do but take his take his legs out from under him, and and that's what you see happening.
You know.
JFK says he's going to do something with the money, he's going to get rid of the CIA, and what do you know they offer him. So I think it's it's a very similar problem to what we're seeing in a lot of ways, though it's you know, not exactly the same. I think it would be fun to see, you know, like Adam kinsing or raising an army and attacking you know, Ted Cruz or something like that.
That might be fun.
But we're not having people raising armies and attacking each other. We are, however, seeing a very weak central power controlled by a deep state, with a rising inflation rate and a rising illegal immigration rate.
Yeah, uh yeah, I mean there's a there is a lot there. Uh yeah. I mean we aren't at the point where they're raising armies or stuff. And I don't even know if we will get there. And then where we're at either uh I guess, you know, I guess the the next thing, the next major thing that's happening right now is a you know, as I said, this will you know for general population, this will come out on Friday on the twenty fourth, uh for most people.
So this will be you know, the Friday, it'll be Monday before this that that Trump you know, get inaugurated. So we're at a weird inflection point. We're at a Biden's leaving. I mean, I think we're you know, as we said before, you know, just a minute ago, but kind of like the idea of like five to ten years ago, telling form yourself what's going on, just the president itself telling former self that the what's going on
with Biden? You know, just like the state of our nation in regards to our president that you would watch. Like I'm at the point where I see him give a statement and I'm just like, holy fuck, that's awful, but like it's not even like a it's not even like a big deal.
I'm just kind of like that one where he's talking about the president of Mexico and being in the Middle East and everything, and it's like, wait, did he just did he just that just happened?
What just happened?
And no one even cares there We're just like I don't care, Like no one cares. We're just at the point where it's like whatever he's going, like it's just an accepted thing that he's just like, I mean, it's a perfect metaphor for what America is right now. But then we have in the wings Trump coming along. I mean a lot. This is kind of dependent on time. So I mean we have this, we also have that kind of just the other day, and you know, this could be completely fall apart by the time this episode
goes public. But we had this theoretical you know, you know, ceasefire over in Gaza.
I mean, Iiden came out and took credit for it too, by the way.
Which I mean, no one, no one took that seriously. I don't think anyone took that seriously. I think that most people are seeing Trump do. And I'm someone who was very pessimistic about where he's coming from with Israel. If he I kind of if he proves me wrong here, I'll be delightfully proved wrong because I mean, Jesus, it is it is much needed respite for both sides. This is this thing. It's really I know, everyone wants to make this a you know, anyone who's against that going
on there, like hates Israel or Jews or something. I'm like, I know, on both sides of this thing. I think this is good. You're gonna get hostages back hopefully, you know, people are gonna get aid. The the violence will stop, the killing will stop. That's all that matters is the killing will stop. As Trump himself said on the campaign trail, and this is a reference to you rush in Ukraine, it's kind of like, Hey, I just want the killing to stop, and like that's I feel like that's where
people should be like, and that's what I want. And I mean I think maybe we're we may be seeing an optimism of uh that. I mean, obviously I can go into the weeds because I mean I listen to anti war dot Com like every day, so I know, you know, the ins and outs. I mean I know that, like, you know, the promises of ending Russia Ukraine in the first day have already been walked back and now they're saying,
maybe we'll have a deal with the first hundred. But the idea, the idea is there, the feeling is there, the hopefulness is there. That's kind of what matters at this point in time.
And on the military front, I'm not that hopeful though, because I listened to Judging the Polaitanos Show a lot, so it's like I'm often you know, like the anti war dot com guys are on there a lot, so it's like, I don't know many we just need to like we need to stop funding all foreign wars. I don't care who it is, and it needs just we just need to worry about here. Like I think that's the thing we really need to get our attention on.
Yeah, which seems to be I don't know what talks are being had behind the scenes, but it seems to me the impression I'm getting from this this deal is that the very least Trump wants it to happen, And it seemed, my guess, maybe there's some sort of conversations happening. They've already said they were his a his Israel envoy guy, I forget his name, he was the one handling this. But point being is there's stuff happening, There's moving and
shaking's happening. It seems optimistic in many ways. I mean you obviously me and you you listening up on Napolitano you know better, I guess, just kind of thoughts. Do you see any parallels between this and Rome? I mean, is is there other times where we went from some ineffectual leader to some bright new possible savior on the horizon. Not that I think he's that. I think he also could very well be a emotiona anti Grace type character too. I mean there's a lot of different ways this could go.
I mean, I mean, he's always flooded himself as being the most Zionist president there is. I mean, this is you know, this whole this peace deal thing though kind of flies in the face of that. So I don't know, I don't know where we're going with this. The lot can change, obviously is super and they are just kind of curious just thoughts have we seen in history anything similar to this? I mean, although Trump is a unique son.
Of a bitch, you know, it's it's tough because, like I said, history like doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme in a lot of ways. And I've had so many conversations with this that people try to, you know, place Trump at the time of the Catalan Conspiracy, or the time at the fall the Republic, or you know, in the time of the Later Republic, and I think or that later Empire. I think there's so many different things you could look at and you could see, but I.
Think it time traveling Trump since Sitcom.
That would be that would be pretty amazing. But to me, I think I think that the bigger point is, like, is monetary policy, right? I think that's the thing that's the problem. So you know, you look at what happened in Weimar, Germany. You know, you look at what happened to England after the pound crashed, You look at a lot of these different things. I think to me, it's less about the person and who's in charge and more
about the winds of economics going behind things. Because when countries don't have a currency that's trusted, used and traded or something people have a lot of faith in, you don't really have a country anymore. And I think that's the real concern because even look at like the EU, right, the biggest reason a lot of these European countries aren't able to just do what they want is because some other economic body controls their economics and tells them how
much their dollar is worth. Well, you can't tell me the economy is the same in Hungry as it is in Italy as it is in France. No, those a different countries, different regions, different types of trade. So to tell them they all have to use the same dollar where that takes away their sovereignty as a country. And I think, to me, that's the bigger thing I look at is economic policy and what's happening.
Yeah, I know, you're definitely right. It does all flow from money. I mean, hell you, I know a lot of people. I mean, you really do need to dig deep into economic not you, but like just rhetorically speaking to people out there to really get a grip on it. Like hell, even I mean, I mean I can get super autistic when it comes even like things like morality is just like that's simply the difference between a high time preference behavior or a low time preference behavior. That's all it is.
That's a good point though, because that is something you see in the later Empire, but not in the way that people try to talk about it, because people talk about, oh, it's debauchery and weird sex and all these different things. And they had that in the Middle Empire. By the time Rome falls, it's actually a Christian empire. But the way that you have to look at the morality issue, the morality issue is so for example, in the two seventies,
Rome had fallen into three pieces. This guy and an Urelian comes in, puts the whole thing back together, and his reward, somebody kills him. So what ends up happening is every time you get a good leader who's worthy of the office, somebody kills him, and that ends up being the actual problem is you don't have people worthy of leading a country and leading it to and leading
an empire to successfully sustain itself because somebody keeps killing them. Like, this is the problem that keeps going over and over again. By the time you get to the emperor that's going to succeed, sorry, it's like a tongue twister succeed a really in his name's Tacitus. He's an old man. He doesn't even want the job. He's like, please, don't make the emperor. Don't do it.
I don't want to be emperor. And it gets to the point where people don't even want the title.
Are you implying there's some sort of entity throughout time that's often good good, not just fucking with you? I mean, maybe you are, but I don't know.
Maybe what is the I don't think it's that far of a shot, Like I don't know if it's the same entity again and again, But I do think groups like that do arise.
I do think that. I do think that's true.
You know, you look at the Bavarian Illuminati in seventeen hundreds that come up, so like, I'm not I don't know that it's always the same group, but I do think people tend to organize in the same ways.
If that makes sense.
Well, I guess that makes a fun little question. I mean with that was kind of just being silly, little tongue in cheek, but I mean maybe there is something too.
Have you seen any sort of and especially looking at something like Rome where it's gone through eras and we can look back in time at it now, have you seen things in there that are kind of conspiracies that, do you know, last generations something like that, like a Bavarian Illuminati or something that would transcend multiple administrations or whatever you want to call it, or empire that could have been responsible for say something like that, like the
multiple assassinations of different emperors or something like that. If you looked into that of the things that were kind of famous that were maybe secret societies or something of.
The like of that time, we really only already touched on, like the Praetorian guard side of things, which to me, that would be the only thing I would really be familiar with. Like, you know, obviously there's all sorts of different worship cults in Rome. You know, there's there's Soul in Victus, which becomes something in the later Western Empire,
which is a thing. But Rome often brought in the religions of the people they conquered, and it would become since they're polytheistic, all these different religions are permitted, though it takes until three twelve with the Edict of Milan for them to actually make Christianity legal, which is kind of interesting. They're polytheistic, but they don't permit religions that are monotheistic, which is quite interesting. But if you look at it, to me, I think that the best example
really is the Praetorian Guard. They're responsible to protect the emperor. They were Augustus's spec show elite military unit, and over time they start deciding who's going to be in charge. You know, it starts with Caligula, who's the third emperor, and he may or man up being crazy. In my opinion, I think he was the ultimate troll. If you really
look at what he does. He was very anti Senate, So everything he does was just to make the Senate feel bad and embarrass them, and they take that as a slight and they talk about perversion and all this other crazy stuff. I think he was just the ultimate troll. But he's the first one that they managed to kill him and replace him with his stuttering uncle Claudius. And as I mentioned, that's gonna happen somewhere around seventeen different times.
Now, those are the ones we know about, right.
You got to imagine that there's other things that happen or occur that we aren't actually able to trace to the Guard that have to do with them. But the praetorian pre fact of the man in charge of the guard was the most powerful man role. If the new Gladiator movie the uh was it Denzel Washington that's in that movie, isn't his character Macrinus, that's the guy that wants to actually be emperor and take over Caraclla's spot.
He was a praetorian prefect. That was his actual job.
And there are several praetorian prefects that managed to get the emperor killed like Machrinas and replace them with himself.
So it is something that happens very very often. And frankly, if you want to look at another thing that's a little bit strange, the group that was in charge of the grain supply in Rome was also in charge of intelligence gathering because the grain supply people would be the most widely traveled, right because they got the grain from Egypt, so they would be traveling all across the Empire to get things. They'd be finding information as they were there.
They're also responsible for making sure people get grain in different territories. So you would stop there, you'd find out all the talk that was happening at that area, and you would report back to Rome and let them know what's happening. So if you want to see anything close to intelligence, believe it or not, the people that were basically in charge of the grain supply would be most like that.
Yeah, that's wild. You mentioned earlier Wymar Republic, and this is actually thought I had earlier before you and talked about this just kind of the idea of the different
rises and falls and the cyclical nature of things. And obviously people frequently bring up the Ymar Republic, and you know, the idea of like the level of decadence and kind of bauchery and things fell part and then for no reason at all, Like that's obviously like the racist joke that people always using them for no reason at all. And then and then obviously then you know, then along came Hitler, along came other stuff after that, and you know,
the obviously and then for no reason. All that joke obviously implies that, you know, it has something to do with the Jews, which is what they obviously came to the conclusion of. And so I think there's something to do. I'm not gonna ask you about the new question. My
point the the the point. The point here is the idea of a populist getting essentially wise to some sort of bullshit, getting sick of the nonsense of whatever X thing is, and finally getting to a point to where the collective consciousness has raised the point where they are beyond the point of realizing there's a problem. And now they're at the point of realizing they need to do something about the Now they may haven't, they may have misidentified the problem, but they think there is a problem
and they are ready for acting on said problem. Uh. And then so we see this frequently. We usually it's a scapegoat and and uh, you know, as we mentioned the the the.
Shape, well the Roman Empire was, the Roman Empire was often the Christians, like you know, like you know, think things aren't going so great. I guess we'll have to do something about the Christians again. Like it happens quite often. You know, it happens with with Emperordisus in two forty nine and two fifty. Uh, it happens in in uh
in sixty four after the Fire of Rome. When when neuro starts having Christians killed in the two in the late two eighties, you're gonna have Diocletians having Christians killed. So so they were kind of the group that often most often got blamed. But frankly, man, the regular Roman people weren't literate enough to know and and their life
wouldn't have changed that that much. I think, you know, maybe after the Roman time period you could see kind of more of a groundswell of people deciding like, hey, this group is a problem. But it wouldn't have been in this time period. It wouldn't have been a popular idea, if that makes sense, because people just weren't well educated enough.
Yeah, that makes sense. Well, is there any other any other things about Rome, particularly that you feel like you wanted to touch on today, whether it be to my audience or just in general, like what would any thing's been, you know, itching at your mind lately that I you feel like maybe I should have asked that you want to talk about anything like that? Your your choice.
Well, I just I just think it comes back to handling currency, man, Like, if we can do something about that, we can actually handle things now. I know Ron Paul's talked about it for years that the person that handles it is not going to be very popular, right because it's we're so far over our skis. It's gonna hurt for a really long time until it feels better. So I think that is one thing you regularly got to
take a look at. I think it's funny too, though, that people don't really understand all the things related to Rome that are still a big part of your life and you don't even realize it. Like the word inauguration, we have that coming up in a few days. It comes from the word augury, which is the science of births. So basically, if Romans wanted to make a decision, they would look at the sky and be like what the birds say? Oh, you know, seven's a good number. I
like seven birds. I think it's a good day to do that. All right, we're gonna, according to the augurs, we're gonna make a decision. Or they would take the liver out of an animal. They would cut it open, they take look at the liver, and there's actually charts online you can see what the different parts of the liver meant. But they would look at the liver and decide if it was a good omen or a bad omen. These are what augers did, which is where the where
inauguration comes from. I don't know that we're looking at bird signs anymore.
I hope not.
But it has to do with the day someone takes office, or the idea of carrying your wife across the threshold afud get married. It's like that like classic thing of like oh honey, we're home, We're going to carry you home. It actually comes from the first king of Rome, Romulus, who him and a bunch of criminals actually create the
state of Rome. They don't have any men, and he doesn't have anybody that's upstanding to do it with, so they actually kidnap a local women from a local tribe called the sabines, and it's called the rape of the Sabine women. They take all these women into their homes against their will and basically decide to their wives. That's where the idea of carrying your wife across the threshold comes from.
So there's a lot of things having to do with culture that we do every single day which have been very ingrained in us for a long time that we just really don't know where they come from, and a lot of them come from Rome.
Yeah, well this is it's been great talking to you today, Jeremy. If you could let my audience know where they could find you, we'll go ahead and get you out of here and we'll maybe we'll shoot the shitt a little bit after we're done recording.
All right, So I'm over at Jeremy Ryan Slay on x That's where I spend the most time. I still have a hard time calling it X. I struggle to not call it Twitter. But I'm also over on YouTube and Rumble as well. I'm at Jeremy Ryan slay on all those. Not because I love myself so much that I use three names, but my parents named me after a cowboy actor that, because of Google, made my life difficult, So Jeremy Yinsley everywhere awesome.
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