Sarah Kopp Married Her Groomer, Then Fought Back

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I remember the first time he kissed me, he came up behind me. I froze. I just went into complete dissociation. I was unresponsive. I just didn't move and like, looking back, it was just a complete fear response, you know, And it just baffles me that he would continue when someone is so unresponsive, you know, like, yeah, as scary.

Hello, and welcome to No Filter. I'm Kate lane Brook and today's episode is one of those conversations that stays with you long after it's over. We're speaking with Sarah Kopp, a woman whose life was dramatically shaped by an experience

Thank you, thanks for having me.

Your story is so extraordinary that I do not know how everybody in the country doesn't know it. And in a climate where there's a lot of conversation about grooming young women, in your case, the responsibilities of teachers, what happened to you is so incredible that I would like you to take me back, if you can, to the time when you were fourteen. You were a high school student at school in Queensland. Who were you then?

Yeah, when I suppose when I was fourteen, before you know, all of it happened, I was very fun, loving girl. I was into my dancing. You know that was my massive passion. I danced every afternoon if I could, you know, and on the weekends and things like that with my classes. I had a excellent social life with my friends. We you know, I grew up in Harvey Bay, so we were always at the beach, hanging out and just having a good time, good relationships with the people around me

And also in the cusp of anyone who's been a fourteen year old girl, girl on the cusp of womanhood, or anyone who's loved or known a fourteen year old girl knows what that period is like, where things are in flux and things are starting to blossom, and you're filled sometimes with insecurity and sometimes with excitement and the possibility of life. And then a new teacher arrived at your school.

His name, yep, his name is Paul Greally h So, yeah, he started the year that I was in year ten.

He was a pe teacher, correct, And did he become your pe teacher?

Yeah?

So he became my actual teacher in the second term of that year, so it would have been around March, after the first school holidays.

And what was the nature of his arrival? I imagine if I go back to school, you know when a new teacher comes, he is a bit of amongst the students, amongst the girls. Was a cute looking guy. He was your pe teacher, I imagine there was that little friss on.

Yes, so.

There was a massive buzz about him arriving at the school. I remember, you know, one of my good friends had him as a teacher in the first term and she just talked about him all the time, about.

How cool he was.

And I actually hadn't really seen him when I was hearing a lot of, you know, the rumors about him.

So I was a bit intrigued as to who this guy was. I suppose.

I also had a friend that I danced with who she just graduated from school, so she wasn't at school at the time, but had run into him at a nightclub and she was talking about him at dancing right, you know, sort of saying you need to you need to see whether he remembers me, and you know, talking

So you had noticed him obviously, like there's one teacher and a lot of students. At what point did you realize that he had stuck to notice you?

So when he became my actual teacher and the subject so in year ten, that year we got to choose each term a different sport to do, so I had chosen to do gymnastics, and that's what he was my teacher for. And it was pretty soon after we had a few classes, and I suppose he noticed my natural physical ability. I guess my background and dance probably helped with what I was doing gymnastics, And it was pretty quickly that he started asking me questions and saying, oh,

So there was a you felt that there was bond growing between you, and also in those circumstances, I imagine to be the chosen one is quite an amazing feeling, and particularly at that age, and there's this amazing teacher and who has this intimacy with all these children, and who's very impressive, and he had noticed you. He singled you out, he bigged you up, he made you feel great. At what point did it start to transition into an even sort of greater intimacy and how does that happen?

So I would say, you know, over the coming weeks in those gymnastics lessons, his compliments and his conversations changed from being focused on my physical ability to more my actual physical looks and things like that. So it kind of shifted from being, oh, you know, you're so good at doing that trick to oh, you're so muscular, you have such a great, you know, muscly body, And then he would start commenting on actual parts of my body, which I do remember thinking we're crazy that a teacher

The hand lingering just longer than it needed to.

Yeah, exactly. And so that sort of that went on for a number of weeks, I suppose, and then he sort of started finding ways to associate with me out of the class itself. So whether that was at lunchtime or you know, before school, he would sit me down and help me with assignments and things like that and have that one on one time outside of the classroom.

Had he been asking you at this point questions about your personal life and had you ever had a boyfriend, that sort of stuff, so getting to know you on that level as well.

Yeah, he would ask me about my life in general, and we would have conversations. He knew that I came from a single mother family. I remember him actually talking about a relationship that he'd had with a student from the school he was at previously. Oh well, he used

Did, because of course this is you're remembering things now and seeing them through a very different leans than you did at the time. And it was a long time ago. It was late nineties.

Was this the year two thousand? Yeah?

So two thousand, yeah, a long time And so at that point, had other people around you notice that there was this growing sense of bonding between you and mister Greeley.

Yes, I had countless friends and students make comments to me about, you know, this relationship that I had with him, and there were definitely eyebrows raised about, you know, what's actually going on. And I think that contributed to me eventually being very isolated from my peers because the questioning got so relentless. I really had to back away because I just was so afraid of, you know, talking about anything.

And was it also because there was a sense that there was something that was growing between you and Paul that was kind of precious, So you were protecting that.

Yeah, I mean even in those early days when oh, I suppose relationship only existed within the school environment, I remember him saying things to me like, even if I had a wife and a child, I would leave them for you, and it just talk about how fabulous I was,

And so I.

Did feel like I had to protect him and that secret.

And sees the specialness in you. And at that age often you're racked by the desire that your belief that you might be special is a founded one, but you're also torn with the fact that maybe you're not. So someone who's making new feel like a queen is has the most powerful tool in their tool kit.

Yeah, I know for myself, and I think most people going through those years of adolescence, you are still trying to work out who you are and where you fit in the bigger picture. I didn't always feel like I fit in well with my peers, just because I had

Yes, And often I think at that age where sometimes maybe your girlfriends were a little bit in that physical you know, losing your downy feathers and getting the awkward adolescent feathers. Because you were a dancer, you would have had some physical assuredness that maybe they didn't have that also may have singled you out from them.

Yeah, potentially, because it's funny, you know, I felt like that at the time, and then you go back to school reunions years later and people are.

Like, oh, I really looked up to you.

I thought you were fantastic, and you know, you were always so confident, and they do they compliment all those things that you.

At the time felt so awkward and uncomfortable about.

So, yeah, I do think potentially there was an element of that where, yeah, I probably did have that natural confidence that some other girls my age might not have had, and it did make me feel a bit isolated.

And how did it transition then from these one on one sessions and him helping you, complimenting you. You said that he did any up visiting you at home.

Yes, so just before that happened, he started he actually met my mom through some basketball games that I used to cheerlead for the local basketball team on the weekends, and he started going to those with some other teachers from school, and that's when he met my mom for the first time and developed some sort of friendly relationship with her there, so she knew who he was. They had had some conversation, nothing too deep, but he was charming, yes, yes,

He through that he.

Had organized, like for my mom to drive me to his house one weekend so he could help me with an assignment, and she sat in the car in his driveway while I went into his house, and then we ended up sitting outside and he spent all this time

With her, spoke about the fact.

That he'd lost his mum not that long ago, and through that he ended up getting invited to our place for dinner one night, and that was kind of the start of that, and that became such a regular feature our life, was him turning up with a bottle of red wine and some card games and music, and we'd have dinner and have drinks and he teaches some card games. And I think he really took advantage of how vulnerable mum was at that time, losing her dad, she was grieving,

At that point, where was your father in this?

I had never known my father, so my parents broke up while my mom was pregnant, so I didn't know him at all. I didn't even know where he was, So yeah, he was completely out of the picture.

I asked that because to then have this male figure who's turning up, yes, and takes a natural seat at the table. Even though it seemed so strange that it was a teacher, it assumed some sort of normalcy and filled a role that your mum would have been very appreciative of.

Yes.

Did she have any sense at the time that it was strange.

No, I don't think she thought it was strange. She really appreciated his friendship, right. That's one thing that she reflects on is Mom didn't have a lot of friends at the time, and I think for her it was an adult that she could talk to and have adult conversations with and talk about her problems. And yeah, I think she had no clue that he was interested in me and genuinely thought that he was there as her friend, right, And you know, I support to her, and yeah, she

And then at what point did it change? So when he would say come to your house, did he ever seek you out or was he very careful not to do that and just really to build the bond with your mom?

Initially it was, I suppose building that bond, But then it did change. He ended up getting suspended from school for a number of things. I'm not entirely sure of all the details, but yeah, he sort of vanished from school one day and I didn't know where he was. So this was probably prior to him coming over to our house regularly. And another teacher actually came up to me at a district sports carnival and handed me a piece of paper and said, oh, really wants you to

Like in the water.

It became very evident that it wasn't my friendship, it was actual romantic interest there. And he ended up kissing me on the beach that day. And then because he was suspended from school, I was sick one day and I sent him a stupid message on my mobile phone, some immature text message, and he said, are you not at school? And I said no, and he said, oh, come over and bring your chicken soup. And that was

I suppose.

So then you what did you think you were to him and what did you think the nature of the relationship was. So obviously this was you were having seen sexual encounters. Now, was it your first sexual experience with him.

To that level?

Yes, definitely. I'd had a couple of short term boyfriends, as you do at that age, that didn't company went near you know that that level. My memories of that time is just how hard and fast that came on

At the time. How did he address your non responsiveness? Did he think that you were shy or you were reticent or being coquettish or playing hard to get or did he not really focus on that?

He just ignored it. And that's what I find someone settling. It's you know, in this day and age when we talk about consent and what consent looks like, yes, and someone has to be an active participant in that, and I was clearly not.

I didn't move I just.

He he almost had to move me, like I was some sort of you know, homely dummy. And he just didn't even acknowledge my responses or talk about anything. Never never had a conversation about my feelings and any of this, and what I was comfortable with. It was just he wanted what he wanted, and you know, I just felt so objectified.

So you were at this stage, like fifteen, had you turned fifteen? Yes?

I had turned fifteen.

How old was he?

He was thirty one?

Right?

And then so.

You're now in a relationship with him. You go back to school, I mean he's back at school after the suspension, the mystery suspension.

Yeah, he does eventually come back to school at some point at the end of that year.

And then how does that work?

Yeah, it was interesting. He actually he came up with a little code like a physical code that he would do to show that he was thinking of me and wish that he could express his love properly. So he used to he'd say, if he ever scratched his ear, right, that was what he was thinking about. So, yeah, he'd

Of this is well we now know is textbook, isn't it.

It is all of.

It, it is And you know, when I did start reading into grooming and things like that. I was kind of gobsmacked initially. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is exactly how it played out for me.

Yeah, it's the playbook, But what is not in the playbook is that this relationship then survived for your remaining two years at school, was still a secret all that time from your friends, other teachers, your mum who knew.

So I eventually confessed to my best friend Amanda that things had escalated and things were happening between us.

She was like she knew.

She was always at me to the point where she was threatening our friendship if I didn't if I didn't come clean, and obviously you know I didn't. I didn't want to lie to her anymore. And it was during the Christmas holidays, like between two thousand and two thousand

I suppose.

I also confided in Mom after things had escalated. I said to her, what had happened?

How long after did you tell your mom?

It was before the Christmas holidays of that year, so it was the year that things had started.

Yeah.

I ended up confiding in her and said, you know, please don't tell anyone. He'll get in trouble and he's really special to me, you know, don't say anything. And I think Mum was in a lot of shock. I don't even remember having much of a conversation with her about it. It just kind of, I don't know, it got swept under the rug in a sense, I suppose. And then he ended up actually telling my mum over those Christmas holidays himself. He brought me out to the

Well, vulnerability, Vulnerability is the key, isn't it. And you were all vulnerable, your grandmother, you, your mom, Yes, and that of course is we know, that's that's what predators use to pray upon people, is vulnerability. But then to your mind, well not to your mind, you were in a relationship with him, How did that continue? Did he stay at the school as you went through do you went through year eleven and twelve?

Yeah, so he left the school early the next year. It wasn't like he was there for the start of grade eleven, but at some point he had left and got transferred to a school in Brisbane. He obviously remained in regular contact with me, and there were times when he would come back and visit.

Because so Brisbane's a couple of hours away from Harvey Bay.

Yeah, yeah, it's about three to four hour drive right between the two places. He started getting in my ear about moving to Brisbane. That was always his big thing was, you know, once we moved to Brisbane, then we can be a regular couple.

No one will know us.

He sort of planted that sea quite early on about that being the best thing for us and then the secret could be lifted. He even enticed me to go by saying that he would get me into the qdoc program at Kelvin Grove State High School, which is at the time it was quite a reputable dance full time program. He said that he was really close with the dance teachers there and he'd get me in and it was a great opportunity for my dancing. So that obviously was

Stay with us. Sarah reflects on her early experiences and the long road that led her to question everything she thought she knew about trust and love. So you've now moved, so you've left Amanda and whatever friendship group you had. Your mum's now relocated, so you're all the more reliant on him for all your kind of emotional needs.

Yeah, he once I moved to Brisbane, he was spending all of his time with me. I remember being difficult to make new friendships at my new school because I'd always have to come up with reasons why I couldn't hang out with them or go to the parties things like that, because you know, he didn't like me going to things like parties and that he used to get a little bit.

Jealous.

I suppose he started getting in my ear around that time about how I'm eventually going to leave him because I'll realize he's too old and things like that, and started making me feel really guilty about wanting to hang out with people my own age. So I did really struggle. I supposed to make strong friendships at my new school, so I did rely on him a lot and was spending all of my time with him.

You know how in schools particularly and teenagers have the most like effective grapevine of anybody. Were there any rumors at your new school or was anyone kind of looking as scance or these stories like you know, Sarah has got a much older boyfriend.

There weren't really any rumors because I was pretty good at not really talking about that side of things, and I think because I was a new student, it was easier to be more secret about that than the people that i'd none for most of my life, so you know, they just accepted I suppose that I was a little bit standoffish and not as sociable as some of the

Oh that's interesting, isn't it. So they were sort of kind of more territorial about you and what was happening to you than your girlfriends at that time.

Yeah, I feel it was more of the boys that got up on edge about it, and it was kind of that was the catalyst for Paul eventually saying to me, Oh, I think we should we should cool this off because you know, I'm clearly too old. Few people are never going to accept us. Look at the way your friends reacted, But yeah, it is interesting that it sort of was the males around me at that time that had a

So then Paul suggested this period of calling off, which would have been I imagine devastating for you.

It was because for me, I thought, you know, we've gotten through all this adversity of all these years where it had to be this giant secret, and he'd convinced me to move to a whole nother town and separate myself from everyone, and for this premise that we could finally be in the open together openly, and then he's cooling it off, and I felt like the rug had been completely pulled from underneath me. It was one of

It was. It was really difficult, but.

You got through that period. What happened that you went from him saying that things needed to cool down to you two actually getting married.

So even though he had I suppose, like broke it off with me officially, he remained in touch with me and would regularly still come over, and you know, we maintained a sexual relationship even though we had broken up. But again, it sort of became the secret because he eventually got engaged. He was dating a student teacher from his current school, and they ended up getting engaged, but he was still seeing me throughout that whole theme, but saying,

I guess. Yeah.

So I was never really out of the picture and away from him and away from his manipulation. So one day I remember getting a phone call from him while I was at work, and it said that he needed to meet up with me because he was leaving his fiance. And I actually a part of me was thinking, don't go, don't go. I think I knew a little bit that things were wrong, but he gave me this big, sob story on the phone about you know, being suicidal and whatnot. And I met him at the Qui two Sports stadium.

So how old are you now at this point?

Yeah, I was twenty, so I just turned twenty that year, and.

So then the natural progression was seen to be that you would get married. Whose idea was.

That, Yeah, it was his. But at the same time he was trying to play me off against all these other women that he had in his life. It was really confusing. He told me he had actual conversations with me where he'd be like, I don't know what to do, whether to be with you, whether to be with this person, or whether to be with this other person. You know, an idle situation. I'd like to be with you, but

But here's the thing, Sarah, because you, in many ways, I imagine, though you may have had the chron and logical years, you weren't a grown woman, because a lot of your relationship with him must have been cemented as a fourteen year old. Yes, and because he's done that thing of pulling away, so you know how it is to be without him when you're so reliant on him. Then when he comes back, you're like, I've got the prize, I've got a chance of getting the golden ring.

Yeah, it was very much like that. And yeah, it's interesting that you highlight about sort of being stuck in that real adolescent mindset, and I feel like that was exactly how it played out for our whole marriage. I never felt like I really grew into a woman, or when I tried to, that's when the big problems started. You know, all the crucks in our relationship were forming because.

When you would try to assert yourself.

Yeah, I guess I started, you know, after i'd had we had two children, and I was starting to get into my mid twenties. I suppose I started talking to other women. I had started making other mom friends. I suppose because when I was young, none of my friends were in marriages with children that you know, I was sort of the only one. I didn't have any anyone

When you would tell your new mum friends your origin story, did you edit it or what did you share with them?

Yeah? I initially when I would tell people how we met, i'd make up some story like we met at university or something that you know, I was young, but not as young as I was. I suppose I still really protected that secret of his. You know, even when I started eventually going to counseling, I wasn't honest with my psychologist at that time. It was just really drilled into me about never telling anyone even at my wedding, there were strict instructions that no one was to talk about how we met.

Well, who was at your wedding, obviously, were there were no friends from your past.

I had a couple of friends from it, like I have my best friend Amanda there right, And then I had another friend of mine, the one that actually it first introduced me to him. Oh, he always really liked her, so he was actually his suggestion to invite her. They were probably the only friends of mine that were there from back in the Harvey Bay days. All my other friends that were in attendance where people I'd met in Brisbane.

And who did he bring? Who was on his side of the aisle?

He had his family, He's got three brothers, his dad and stepmom were there, and he had a table full of friends that These were all people I'd never met, by the way, even his family. I'd met his dad once when I was seventeen. We were on our way to some event and we stopped in. But other than that, I had never seen these people until the day before my wedding, and all of his friends the day of

So I don't understand his brothers and his parents didn't know how you'd meet.

No, I don't even know if when they even found out about me, to be honest, right, his dad, I mean, yeah, as I said, I met him, we went dropped into his house the end of grade twelve, But I don't know if he remembers that would or knew that that was the same person, because you know the years, two years had gone by since then.

Gude.

That makes the wedding speeches difficult, doesn't it. Yeah, a big part of weddings normally is the origin story.

Yes exactly. I forget who actually made a speech. I know Amanda spoke on my behalf, and a couple of my other girlfriends said something, but I think Paul might have been the only one who spoke on his side, maybe his brother, But again, yeah, it would have been so surface level stuff because he knew nothing about me.

Don't go anywhere. Because after the break, Sarah talks about the moment she found the courage to speak out and how that decision changed the course of her life. You know what's interesting is you mentioned earlier going to see a counselor so within you, even in this period in which really he's been really the only sun and rain that's been falling upon you, a little seed of something has been germinating within you that makes you seek out counseling in the first place.

What was that, Well, it was actually something completely random that got me in the door of counseling, and in hindsight, I'm so glad it happened. I was actually in a car accident and it was quite bad, and I got hit by a truck and I ended up struggling. I guess to get in a car for a little while after that, So I went to seek out counseling to deal.

With because otherwise he would have been very anti you going to capt.

Yes, one hundred percent, and he ended up stopping me. So when I went to this woman, it was probably within the first session, maybe the second, she started directing the questioning more towards my relationship and I was wondering why she kept bringing that up and not the accident. And then yeah, she slips me a couple pieces of paper on domestic violence and starts saying, you know, I don't think you're in a healthy marriage. I do believe that, you know, you're suffering a few of these things.

And I was.

Thought, oh, that's really strange, really like, I didn't know how to take that. And the first thing I did when I left is went home and talked to him about it. And that's just how naive I was, I suppose and young. I just went, oh, this is what the psychologist just told me. What do you think you know?

And wanted his person tip of it.

What was his perspective by the way, Oh, he instantly was dismissing it. And you know that's rubbish. She's just toxic. She has no idea what she's talking about. Do not go there ever again, you know. So I quickly asked those sessions. I think I only had a you know two with her and never went back. But it did plant a seed. I think it was the first time that I went, you know, maybe there is something not

And so what period of time had elapsed before you did you resume counseling at some point?

Yes, I ended up going back to counseling sometime towards the end of our relationship. He made me believe that I had anger problems, so I thought, I'll go to see a psychologist and get that sorted out. And I saw this a different psychologist, and she started then saying the same things as the first one and going, I don't think you have a problem. I think you know

And how long had you been married at this point?

This would have been maybe five or six years into the marriage, I'd say, like it was getting towards the end. And then I stopped going to her again, I think because she was saying all the same things as the first one. And these people aren't listening to me. I have a problem. They need to fix me. That was

At what point did you realize that it's not just a matter of it being a bad relationship, but the fact that the relationship could never be good because of how it had begun and how you were brought to it. At what point did those pieces click together? I imagine that took a long time.

Yeah, it took a really long time, and I probably didn't fully grasp that until after we separated and I had some space from him, and I started really taking note about I was reading a lot, I was informing myself about things, I was talking to people a lot more.

I was probably felt like I could be.

More honest about how my relationship started, which opened up a lot more conversation with people. And it was probably in those first few years after leaving him that I realized what had actually happened to me and that the whole thing was just it was just manipulation. And abuse the whole time. And yeah, as you say, a relationship that starts like that can only continue like that. It can't it can't change.

How was he? And I just want to point out to our listeners that you've got a family court ruling. Obviously you don't want to discuss in detail anything that would jeopardize anything there. But how was he when you started to grow into yourself, when you were having these realizations. How was he?

I think I actually think I tried to reach out to him and tell him how I actually felt and that, you know, tell him what he did was really wrong and how damaging it has been to me. I think I attempted that once and he quickly shot it down and sort of turned it into the fact that it was me who instigated it all and in the beginning, and I basically forced myself on him, like he was really trying hard to get me to think that it was my fault that it happened, and so there was

It's interesting though, because you say move on with your life, but even though you may have been unaware of it, you were moving on with your life because the work that you started to do, which I imagine was beyond painful, led you to going to the police.

Yeah, like, that's.

A remarkable Sarah. That's a remarkable isn't it. That is properly someone who's very different from the girl who was back here. Yeah, or that was the little seed inside that girl.

Yeah, And it was incredibly hard for me to make the steps to go to police. I un denied about it for a long while, like years. It wasn't a quick decision for me. I'm very, very blessed to have Amanda by my side. She's always been my biggest advocate and has had a belief in me that I had the strength to do that, and almost feel like in some way she kicked me in the pants and so

How was that, by the way, How did how did that feel to you? For the first time, to tell the truth?

It was scary because I knew once I band aid off, there's no gone back, you know, But it was just like a huge weight had been lifted, and mostly to the way that she received that information. I think helped me feel that way, because you know, I had had a lot of instances throughout, you know, my separation where I felt like I had a lot of slammed doors in my face and wasn't getting anywhere within the institutions and the systems that are available for.

People because people wanted to minimize what had happened or it was too complex for them to entertain.

Yeah, I think, you know, it is such a complex situation when you know, I think a lot of people saw it and since that there was a marriage there, so it couldn't have been that bad. And I just felt like no one was looking at the bigger picture or had an understanding of what I had gone through, and I found it really difficult to get protection in

And then so Detective Julia led you through the process. Then.

Yeah, so she got back in contact with me to come in and make a formal statement. So when I first sat down with her, it was more just a general conversation where she got the gist of what had happened, and she'd obviously gone away and spoken to her superiors or whatnot, and so we sat down. We had a couple of sessions of going through my statement. It was I think the first time I sat down there were two four hour blocks. It was about eight hours in total, and then I had to go back a second time

Yes, how far it went was it went to court, yes, and that was another ordeal.

Yeah.

So the trial was last year, just every year ago. So I first made that statement the beginning of twenty eighteen.

Wow.

He wasn't charged until twenty twenty wow, and then didn't go to trial until twenty twenty four. So it is a very very long process.

In the trial. I mean you really the evolution of you, it feels like, continued throughout the trial in your was it a victim impact statement where you addressed the court and you spoke so not only eloquently, but the points that you raised were quite extraordinary ones because I gathered that in the case they were focusing on whether you were fifteen or whether you were sixteen. Yeah.

The whole thing was this argument over a six month period basically, so there was no denial of a relationship, but they were, you know, defense were arguing that the relationship started when I was sixteen as opposed to fifteen.

In which case it would not have been illegal, no, even though he still had a duty of care to you.

Yeah.

So Queensland's been very far behind with the special care laws. A lot of the other states have implemented special care laws years ago, which basically protect children up to the age of you know, sixteen seventeen when they're with people in positions of power, you know, like teachers, coaches, doctors, all that kind of stuff. Queensland have only just instigated laws to that effect. I think towards the end of last year was.

That as a result of your case.

Not directly mine. I think it's just become such a common thing. I feel like every time I'm on Facebook or something, I'm seeing articles of very similar stories of girls who have been groomed into these relationships from a similar age. And yeah, I think collectively, there's been so much of it happening that people have started advocating for those changes.

So thankfully, finally we do have those laws.

Now, you were face to face in court with Paul Yeap, and how was that?

It was hard?

Obviously I didn't look at him. I didn't want to look at him. I was allowed to have a support person with me. But what I didn't realize was that defense actually can vet your support person and prevent them from coming in, which I feel like defeats the purpose of even having a support person in the first place. So the night before I was meant to appear in to give my evidence, it was quite late at night,

Why do they have to give a reason.

Well, I don't know if they have to give a reason or whether they just hadn't said it, because I was like, what reason is it that my friend can't come in? Because it was a friend that I'd made since moving to Brisbane, so she wasn't around in the time of the offense anyway, she said, oh, can you try and find somebody else? So I organized another friend to come, and both of these friends of mine actually came with me the next morning, so they were both there.

So she came as like just someone sitting in the course.

Yeah, so it's just someone that can just sit there so that you feel supported, you can look at them for that connection and stuff, which it was nice to have someone in there. It's such a confronting experience, and it just I was completely gobsmacked that I had to go in by myself because they preach about having all of these special considerations for victims of these crimes, one being support person that then no one ever tells you that the perpetrator can actually block those people from being

How long was the trial, by the way.

It went for the four weeks, over the full five days.

Yeah, and then he was sentenced.

Yes, so he was found guilty of five charges actually five charges I think of indecent treatment of a child and one charge of maintaining a relationship with a child, and then was sentenced to two and a half years but suspended, so one year, three month suspended sentence, so he only has to serve half of.

It, right, so he's in jail now.

He is still in jail at the moment.

Yes, So how did that feel? Because that does seem like an extremely light sentence. However, it also amazing that he got sentenced, knowing what we know about the legal process and the treatment of yeah, young women.

Yeah, for sure.

The fact that it even made it a trial was crazy, because especially these historical cases, a lot of them don't even get that far. So the fact that we got a trial was enormous. But yeah, that being said, the sentencing was still I feel quite light considering what he'd done, especially in a position of power that he was in, where he's literally in charge of caring, you know, being a caretaker for a child.

People often speak about the feeling of affirmation when there is a sentencing and when somebody is found guilty of something because for all those years where you were convinced by the external force of him that it was you and that there was nothing wrong. How did it feel when he was sentenced?

We can't put in words.

It was more when I heard that they'd found him guilty that I can't explain to you the feeling that came over me. It was just such emotion. I just I was buling my eyes out. I actually didn't go into the courtroom initially because I didn't want to be in there around other people. If he was found not guilty of everything, I didn't want to have. I didn't

Also very powerful.

They the juries stand up all in a like one giant line, right, and the judge will get one person to read the verdict of each charge and then they all have to repeat it and it goes on and on and on. So you've sort of got twelve people there facing you in this line saying you know, guilty, and a few of them were making eye contact with me and sort of nodding at me like they were there and supporting me and what i'd gone through, like they understood it and that they had seen you yes,

How is your life now?

It's good, It's on its way.

You know. I'm still still receiving counseling for everything. There's a lot to unpack, there's a lot of years. I think it'll be something that I'm doing for quite some time. But I've sort of reached the point now where I feel like it's time to have a voice and come forward with my story because I'm very passionate.

And you're now doing work on behalf of other children.

So yeah, So just this year, I've started my own organization, step In for Kids, basically coming up with educational programs that I can deliver in school settings for educators, students, you know, even just community members as well, just to educate them on the science of grooming what that actually looks like, especially in those teenage years. I think a lot of people forget how vulnerable teenagers are. You know a lot of the criticisms I've faced were that but

I want to read you something. I mean, these are your own words. It's from a letter you wrote to The Australian. I think silenced and dismissed how the legal system minimizes women's trauma and referring to the trial, you said this. Throughout the trial, the narrative portrayed the relationship as a misguided love affair, attributing romantic feelings from my abuser, and portrayed me as an obsessive teenager with an infatuation

Yeah, I do hope I can make a difference in someone's life, and even if that is anyone else out there that has gone through something similar that might still be keeping that secret and isn't sure if they're ready to come forward, Like if I can give someone the strength to make that first step and know that there are people out there that will listen and believe you, and you know, a chance to get justice, That's what it's all about. That's only hope that I can help people in that way.

When you were sharing your story with me, it made me so angry that I felt like my eyes could pop out pop out of my skull. It was deeply wrong what happened to you. But the best thing you can do in life when something you have been wronged is to make it right on behalf of the girl that you were and the woman that you are. And my wish for you, and I'm sure that all our listeners will share it with me, is that you continue to dance. You really deserve to dance.

Thank you make me emotional.

Well, you've made me emotional.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I think dance will always be in me.

Well, you know when you were talking about when you were a teenager and how you were so exuberant and you thought you were too much. I think we'd all like to say that too much again.

Yeah, I don't think you can get the dance out of me, that's for sure. I'm currently a dance teacher, so I'm passing that on to the next generation.

Thank you so much for sharing yourself with us, and best of luck to you. Your life is going to blossom like a flower.

Thank you very much, and you know I appreciate you having me on here so that I can share my story.

So yeah, thank you.

Thank you for listening to Sarah Copp's story today. Her journey is heartbreaking, yes, but it also is such a profound testament to courage and the power of taking action even when you feel at your weakest. Sarah's work with step In for Kids is changing lives, protecting children, and giving survivors a voice. She's proof that even from the darkest experiences, hope and change can emerge, and that courage isn't the absence of fear, but the determination to act