Osher Günsberg On What Happens When TV Fame Ends

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Oh I'll be dead, There's no question. There's no question.

Yeah, I wouldn't be alive. There's absolutely no question, no question at all. The horror that I was lining with.

Forget about it, absolutely forget about it.

Welcome to No Filter. I'm Kate lane Brook. You know Osher Gunsberg. He's the face of The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, the Masks, singer and of course Australian Idol. He's the voice of bond I Rescue and he's been so familiar to us on our screens for more than two decades. But what happens when the cameras stop rolling. In this conversation, Osher talks about what it's been like to find his footing in a changing industry and what it really feels like to be in your fifties with years of experience

I'm thrilled to be here.

Okay, So when I was doing my deep dive on you, which I already was quite in deep with you actually just through having been alive in this country, nobody can interview you without referring to your haircuts or your name changes.

Okay, if that's what they want, what I wink that the content of what they bring to a production has more to do.

But no, But here's the thing.

I actually think that they're markers of certain periods in your life.

Of course, as is the therapy.

That you have embarked upon that goes with each of those, and the self work that you have done.

Oh yeah, and maybe I've been a bit more visual or visible about that than others, because you can't be what you can't see. And I felt it was important to start talking about the kind of things that I needed to hear when I wasn't doing very well. And I think it's important to normalize this stuff. You're nice stranger to normalizing difficult conversations, and I think it's important

I'm curious about the point at which because your evolution has been remarkable, and as you said, a lot of it conducted under the like often obsessive and cruel scrutiny of the public eye, right, and you have a remarkable capacity to bring yourself to things.

Well, I chose this job, all right.

There's a moment in Godfather Part two where Michael Corleoni is talking a hymen Roth.

Please do the accent, Please do the accent, Please do the accent, Please do the accent.

You know he's talking to hyd Roth, who is actually his acting coach and one of the great acting coaches of the world. He's upset at Michael Coleoni for whacking one of his friends, and he says, but I never complained because it was business, and this is the business we have chosen, And this is the job I chose.

I chose a public facing job.

And there's parts of the public facing job that I have dealt with in lately far better ways.

Than I used to, But there's this is the job I chose.

I chose a job where I am putting myself out to the opinions of the public. And part of the work that I get to do is I get to have a long, hard look at myself in the magical maas and mirrors and really get to choose what those opinions of the public mean to me. And in the past I have sometimes made the mean all kinds of things and it has derailed me in parts, and lately, in the last fifteen years or so, it's been a

Wasn't doing very well. I wasn't doing well when I started that show. And similarly, that's why I wrote this book.

In what was I wrote this book because I read this book because I wish this is the book that I wish I had when I wasn't doing very well.

This is the book you're talking about, So what now?

What?

And when I was reading it, which was it's very accessible.

It's a graphic novel, and I think when I first got it this might be a metaphor for you. I underestimated what it would contain within do you know what I mean?

Because of the presentation of it seems.

So I'm all about the trojan horse, all about it. You know.

It's if I can, if I can sneak into the machine and disrupt from the inside, then I've done my job. And if I can present a set of tools that for me were life saving in a way that doesn't feel like I'm trying to tell you something, doesn't see it feel like I know better than you, or it doesn't feel like you're broken, and it's just look, here's some stuff. Take it or leave it, it's up to you, and then I've done my job right and I worked really really hard to hopefully thread that needle.

What was it If we go back to twenty thirteen when you started your podcast and you said you wanted somewhere basically to find some tools that would help you where you were at that time. Where were you at that time that needed that.

Twenty thirteen, I've been sober for about three years.

I just got divorced.

I was out in Los Angeles, paying rent out of my savings and kind of starting to maybe get whiffs that there might be I was creating TV formats and I'm pitching them down in Australia and I was in pre production for a TV show when it was a dating show, and I was in pre production for this dating show, and then the network said, hey, I know you're here doing pre production on this dating show, but we just put another dating show.

It's called Bachelor. Would you want to host that? Yes? I would.

So I was out here by myself back in Australia, kind of single and sober for the first time, trying to figure it out, dealing with degrading like sometimes better mental health than I had in a long time, but in many ways worse mental health than I had a long time, and I wasn't hearing the kind of conversations I needed to hear, which was that other people also had similar struggles and other people found ways to overcome them and just to normalize stuff like not necessarily I

Just oh yeah, I know that.

And I do a lot of jobs to keep my mortgage paid these days, Kate, it used to be just one or two is about thirteen. But there's a through line to all of them. And I think the one job that I think I do better, that's than everything. The one job I do is to I try to make people feel less alone. That's my job, okay, And that be through a book or a podcast, or whether I'm doing a keynote or hosting a TV show.

Giving a girl a rose, I am.

I am a one man example of the Mandela effect because I've never given anyway. I never a rose once, never, not one time, but I ever give a rose.

But everyone asked me, did you ever give a rose?

Like?

No, that is Mandela effect.

I get to be a I think I always thought watching that show well, I wondered how much input you.

Had to it.

Thankfully, in later seasons an amount which was more than other people would expect from the host of a show. They were the production company was very very open to input, and we were all creating it together, which I'm very very great for.

You know, you're not the one who drove it off the tracks though with the multiple bachelors, because that was a shark jumping moment.

I couldn't keep art.

I don't know.

You've been involved in you've been involved in in very very highly successful shows, and you've been involved in shows that, even though they've been highly successful and you're trying new things, sometimes those things don't work and you're doing everything you can, and you know, sometimes things change around you. You're doing all the stuff you're doing right and it might it might not hit, but you've got to take a risk.

Okay.

I think there's a lot of factors that went into how there's there's always a lot of factors that go into how a TV format grows and changes over time. Some of those things make that TV format keep going and sometimes they don't. But sometimes those things are completely iudio control. You know, it could be the license fee that they signed with the format owner that makes it no longer affordable to make. It's got nothing to do

Fine, okay, So on that note, this is an unusual time.

But in show.

Bees, which is my bees and your bees, these are weird times. And we know that the weird times have come and knocking for other people already. Do you know what I mean? Like in automation of production or someone who was a journalist would know this, But now it's knocking on our door.

How does that feel?

Because you have been such a big part of Australian television, You've been one of the most widely seen hosts across a variety of formats, and because you are prone to introspection, how do you process that?

So what you're talking about is that? And I asked this this morning.

We're recording this a day after I was voted off the Island of Dancing with the Stuff, and I asked the publicist johnno this morning, I said, what were the numbers last night? And you know, he said, some numbers whatever, they were nine hundred something. I was like, oh, so nine is a new one and ones a new two.

Pretty much. There was a time when you would get two million and not even you know, you.

Get one point five, not even blinked, right, you get one point five now like you're taking the.

Board to lunch.

Or they're taking you to lunch.

Yeah, my part.

I can only control my part in this, Kate, and that would be that I was so busy trying to be the healthiest. I could be the best husband, I could be the best dad stepdad, that I could be the best person who does my job.

That I could be, and trying to be that.

Not succeeding, but you know, to the level I would like to in many of those ways, but doing my very best. I was too busy doing that to look up and notice things like share prices and ratings and viewership across the board and market ad spend and business stuff that I have never really needed to pay attention to earlier in my career, but lately understood that, oh crikey, if the ad revenue is not coming in, then the production budget's not justified, and it's got nothing to do

It's not on the big screen in the living room.

Well it is, it is, it's just not through the previously it inherent owned channels that existed. It's an arm wrestle over HDMI one for everyone's living room, okay, and most of the time that HDMI one is going to be at Apple Box or might be just a smart TV, right, and the first button's going to be Netflix, the second button's going to be YouTube, or maybe the other way around.

And it's not just from an industry reason.

When you know, whenever I run into somebody that I've worked with, I'm like, oh my god, you're working Stoke for you. Okay, it's not just for those reasons. I feel that as a country we need to really take a long, hard look at ourselves about how much we value our culture and what value it is to us as a nation to have a cohesive cultural narrative.

We still have it through sport, which we're lucky.

Sort of, even though that it's a divide. That's a divide as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do still like supports so much.

But it is really really important that A great example would be the Coldplay meme. Yeah, okay, that moment where everyone knows the thing you're talking about. Yes, that hasn't happened in three fucking years, okay, but it used to happen every day. Every single day. You would go to work and say did you see that? I saw that? And everyone knew what you want.

By the way, in case there's two people that don't know, it was the CEO with his head of HR at the Cold Blake concert. Who got caught on the jumbo tron kissing It was sprang apart so guiltily it was.

It was okay.

Chris Martin shitting ingrin really sold it though, it was like and even he knew.

You really needed that on the scene. But this is this is the thing.

We we had this cultural moment that complete strangers were able to relate to the same thing and go, yes, we both saw this thing, and we both relate to this thing, and this gives us a little way point for which to navigate the rest of our lives around because right now, there used to be four versions of the news every night, and that was what the news.

Was all right.

Now there's any version of the news that you want, and none of it will make you uncomfortable. If you choose, you can watch all your news through a lens that gives you just what you want to hear about it, and not what you don't that makes you feel funny

It's a really wholesome show and I really love it.

Or you know, any kind of nonscripted reality show or drama. It's really really important that we see our culture reflected. Otherwise we're just going to end up like a weird echo of America and the right and because the Australian cultural value needs it's the third actor in any scene that you ever watch, right, the way that Australians look

Well, that doesn't happen. So how do we get out of a sticky situation here? All Right?

It's really really important that we value our culture, and we value our storytellers, and that we value the people that make those stories. We wouldn't let gastroentrologists go out of work if we suddenly killed Celiac disease, but we would keep them around in case we needed them. But we're about to have this gigantic loss of knowledge in our storytelling industries, radio, television, film that we're not going to get back.

And that's a really weird place for us to be.

And I don't think anybody would argue that it's not important. And when I say anybody, I mean people. People know that's important. People know what they value.

There was a thing that used to happen where we had local content rules. Having worked in radio, you would understand why you would have Australian artist on radio because there was a mandate if you had a broadcast license you needed to play a certain percentage of Australian music. Right that also exists with free toware broadcasters. You have to have a certain percentage of Australian content that does not exist for the streamers. Okay, And we talk a

So Ashualy, you know, you referred to having several jobs now to pay your mortgage thirteen and I think you said now whereas once it only took one or two. Not literal, but your point is a valid one you must encounter all the time, the assumption that because you work in such a public facing role that you are cashed up to the moon and back.

I'm the same as anybody, right, I know we're supposed to live within our means. But like anyone, you get the mortgage that you think, yeah, we can do that.

I don't you want job you're in, that's what you do, and you just back yourself. Yep, thirty years, let's go, otherwise you'll never leave the rental.

And by the way, everyone's mortgage in Australia now is eye watering.

Everybody.

I don't care who you are, all right, you got the mortgage that you breathed in through your teeth, and it might.

Be caravan parks for wild kids, and you know when.

It comes to holidays, but you hit go and and our situation is the same. You know, you you live, you build a life, you know within, you build a life that is in response to the work that you're doing. And certainly once kids show up, you know, you get into schools and you start doing all kinds of things, and those expenses don't just go away. I had four primetime TV shows on the mortgage form. None of those I was going to show.

I hope that's not the time that you actually got your mortgage, but it is.

It was, and none of those shows exist now. But we're still here because I have had to be very innovative about what you said, I'm trying to do here. It's the same dance at anyone plays. And you know, whether we get to stay here or not, I don't know. But look the days of oh, you've got our job in television, so now you are set for life that have not.

Existed since the eighties.

Man, like pre GFC TV money, I saw the like a glimpse of the back end of it, But that stuff doesn't yest.

Not in Australia, no way. Man. Nah. There's people who don't work anywhere near broadcast.

TV that make way more money using their freaking phone.

This is very interesting because it's interesting kind.

Of on a macro and a micro level, or you know, on a more personal level.

What does it mean for you?

Like, how do you feel about Really, you've been on our screens for I'm going to say twenty years longer.

Probably started in ninety nine, Yeah, so.

Twenty six years.

What does it feel like for you when you realize, like you said that this was you with a frog in the boiling water, not really realizing what was going on around you. But like you said, you've got a mortgage to pay, and you've got a wife, and you've got a kid, you've got to a step daughter, and you've got a life to live.

How does that feel?

I mean, like, I mean, I'm not special.

I'm not the only fifty something year old guy that's found themselves at the wrong end of a you know, a shrinkage in a market or a technological iteration. You know, this happens in many, many, many industries. As we mentioned, I just get to do it public a little more publicly than others. And you know, in many ways, it's what the book is about.

It's you know, four wonderful words. So what now?

What Am I going to be upset about it? Or am I going to do something about it? Because I can be upset about it, but all that's going to happen is I'll just stay upset about it and nothing will happen and it'll just get worse. Or I could do something about it, and being in action will get me as long as I'm in moving towards what I value, which is looking after my family and try to connect with people and try to make people feel less alone.

Being an action will feel better than doing nothing.

And it is through that action that the clues and the spontaneity and the serendipity that bring the next opportunity.

A right, So the so what now?

What is based on a certain type of therapy? You know a lot about therapy? Can you tell me what types of therapy you know about?

Oh? Well, look, it's different courses for different horses.

Okay, If horse rest is your thing, it's not really mine.

But you know, you can go to a physio for some things, you go to a chiropractor for others. All right, there's the same people they put their elbows in your back, but they do different things. Similarly, there's different kinds of therapists for different kinds of situations, and therapy is something that you can go to for a while and then you get us at tools and the kind of hold your hand for a bit and then they kind of patch you on the bum and send you off into

Oh no, no no.

And that's a broadly kind of available It's got its ups and downs, you know, but a broadly available, self administered kind of thing, and it's really really powerful stuff.

You've got to work at it, though, you've got to use it.

Is that a one on one thing? So you go to the cognitive behavior therapists?

Oh yeah, they teach you how to do it.

They teach you how to do it, but it's very much learning how to observe your thoughts and feelings, understand that they might not necessarily be right. Understand that there's a common set of distortions that our brains can do, like black or white thinking, or predicting the future, or catastrophizing or magnifying or diminishing and go hang on any of those things, going on, Oh yeah they are. Okay, what's a different thought I might be able to have about this?

Oh? I could think about it in this way?

Okay, great, let's try that, and then just taking the breath and going all right, like it could mean like the day that I lost two jobs in one day, the ones that how I ended up like no job, out of money, out of work, living in America, and my man, David, he says to me, I'm excited for you, pal. It means that universe have got bigger plans for you. I said, I don't believe you, man, you didn't hear me. I just said I lost both my last one day and I have no job. I don't believe you heard me.

Both those things can be true. We get to choose which one.

And that's kind of what the cognitive behavioral therapy thing, right, Acceptance commitment therapy is.

This is this so what?

Yeah?

Now what?

Yah? So yeah, that's yeah, we worked.

Accept As commitment therapy is it does what it says on the tin, right, and it is accepting the thing you can't control, and then action in accordance with your values. I'm not alone in this, but about I don't know, eight weeks or ten weeks before Wolfgang was born.

I was doing really well.

I was off meds for the first time in a long time, fantastic, life is going really well. That it was getting worse and I didn't want to I would admit it, and it was getting worse. And then we were on We had a weekend away with g and it was like the last week that we could fly before Audrey was like too pregnant to fly. And she just took one look at me and says, I need you to go back to you psychiatrist, get back on meds.

What could Audrey see that you couldn't see yourself because you were immersed? Like, how did it manifest?

Oh?

Very rigid thinking, inability to change plans, in ability to not do the thing that we talked about we were going to do this morning. Now we're doing something else, and just like it, being in a like unable to cope with it short of temper, snappy, cranky, that kind of stuff. But the rigid thinking is the and being being a bit lost my brain getting very very full with the noise of the scaries. That kind of takes

I got really, really sick.

And I'm like, I didn't want to get back on those meds because they're great because you're not crazy, but you put a lot of weight because they messed with your instulin response and your testosterone goes out the window and the world feels like blue tag But it's nice because you're not dealing with suicidal idiation all day. But after a while it gets a bit like is this it?

All that kind of stuff.

It's teaching me the skill set to be with the uncomfortable thoughts feelings, making space for those uncomfortable thoughts and feelings and knowing that I can hold them in one hand, and also be with the joy and giggling of my son seeing rainbow lorikeet for the first time, and be able to hold both of those things because what was happening is my brain was just so full of the

Coming up after the break, Asher shares why being a step parent is harder than being a parent. This is very interesting who I constantly think about now when I hear you do all of this.

To explain all of this and the journey zeh is audrey O wife.

Yeah, yes, because it's one thing to be the person who's putting the pieces in the puzzle of yourself, and it's another thing to be the person who loves the person who's constantly putting pieces and analyzing pieces and trying to find how to make the picture complete or whatever, like that's an amazing thing. She fell in love with you. Did you explain to her how complex you were?

I let her know her like the moment that it had the hint of becoming romantic. I told her, Look, I'm on a lot of anti psychotics and you know, some SSRIs and nsros, so you know, if there's a muted response, that's what's going on. So she knew from the start, all right, But it is it is not easy. It is not easy to be with someone who's trying their best to trying to use the brain they've got to live with the brain they've got.

It's really hard.

Because you mentioned the puzzle analogy, like a lot of the time, a lot of the time, the big problems are, oh, that's the answer, and then you know, charging at it and then flipping the whole puzzle table upside down and then having to start again and all you were trying to do is make it better. And it sucks, man, It sucks to know that sometimes I cause pain.

To you know, my wife and my family.

Because of a physiological thing that's going on between my ears. But being aware of it is all I can do, and taking action about it is all I can do.

How old was Georgia when you and Audrey got together?

She was ten?

Ah? Interesting? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's an amazing time to enter a girl's life. Important.

Yes, yes, step fatherhood is I'm gonna I'm there's step parenting and then there's parenting, and I do both, Kate, and I'm here to tell you step parenting is harder.

Yeah, right, And why is that?

Because you love the kid just as much, you dedicate your life to them just as much.

And because her dad's amazing. He's an amazing guy. I love him.

He's a great dude, and he's her dad. And I'm never going to be there, all right, And I never wanted to. I'm never going to and I never tried to be Okay, though, there is a like this this thing inside you that's like, oh there's a bit missing, all right, and it's tough. It's really tough. It's really tough, but it doesn't stop the reason that you want to do it right.

Okay, can I ask this? Did you have therapy for being a step parent?

Oh? Fuck, yeah, absolutely, yeah, so I was. That's the trickiest part about being a stepparent is you are thrown into this job without any of the training.

Babies a great because it's the same thing.

Every two hours for about three months if you're lucky, and then slowly, over time you figure it out and they're usually too little to notice when you've really fucked it up. And you know, Maggie didn't said thirty percents good enough, so I just aim for that, and so you learn over time.

How to deal with it.

And then I'm thrown into We moved in together when she was eleven, so I've an eleven year old with like about six weeks of parenting experience, and I made a lot of mistakes I wish I didn't make, but I was doing the best I could with what I had, and Audrey brilliantly recognized that we were going in a not a great direction and a man, I love the Australian healthcare system. I lived in America for ten years, where universal kid does not exist. She reached out to

And it was magnificent. It was magnificent.

I think she saw g I think once or twice, I don't know. But the rest of the time was me and Audrey and.

What did you learn about yourself?

Because I think one of the things about being a parent or being in a parental role is it's really illuminating about yourself.

Oh my god, it's the best and worst thing about having kids is they don't do what you tell them.

But I'll do everything you show them.

That's so true.

It is right.

You start to hear them saying, feel like, she's why does that piss me? Do it?

Where did you learn it?

Fuck?

You learn it from me and I learned it from my dad. Fuck it's on me. I have to stop this.

So back to Audrey.

When the role that someone plays when they love someone anyway is in an any successful relationship of supporting role. I don't mean a lesser role, but I mean literally one of support.

But then how do you when you have so much.

Consuming you and the work of life and working out your life, taking such a big chunk of you to navigate things. How do you make sure that as your wife, she's represented on the ledger?

Do you know what I mean? Well, because because she takes.

You have to take such good care of you, careful care of you, and she's also taking care of you, how are you taking care of her?

Oh? This is the balance that any person in a relationship has to face. In it there's the work life balance.

But if you're also dealing with something else, I don't know, if you're managing type one diabetes or whatever, like, you've got to figure it out and you've got to put systems in place. Okay, Yeah, And that's that's the way that I try. I try to get around it, Like I don't. I have varying degrees of success in this, and sometimes I think I'm doing a great job and I'm doing a terrible job. Sometimes I think I really

Going to be affected. I don't care who you are.

There isn't enough bandwidth to do all of it, and you're just going to have to find, you know, often the kids are going to win. They're going to win, all right, and you've got to be okay with with that.

And it's it's hard. I'm not saying he's got to be okay with me being a ship husband.

I'm just saying that there is an element of that that everybody deals with. But then there's the added element that Audrey has to deal with where.

I, you know, part of the brain.

When I first got diagnosed my my doctor, you know, I was like, oh my god, I got what he goes, Well, what do you think you've got? The career you've got? Come on, man, all right?

So what was that diagnosis by? What was the first diagnosis?

Wasn't the PTSD?

Is when he when we started exploring o c D, when we started exploring obsessive compulsive disorder.

There's a collective a few letters.

Some of which I've spoken about so which I'll speak about in good time, but he helped me understand, like, well, of course this is why you've got the life you've got, because you've got this brain that your job now is you need to take respond it's ability for it. And you know, sometimes I can get I can get very very focused, possibly too focused on things, and just forget, not even forget. It's not even forget implies that it's not important. My psychiatrist told me that I've got two

Do it best. What he puts up with a lot she really does.

That's not all to my conversation with Osha after this break. He explains how his wife, Audrey, has saved him. If you had not embarked on the discovery via your various forms of therapy, or your veganism or your giving up alcohol or whatever, where do you think you would be now?

And who would you be?

Oh?

I would be dead, There's no question, no question. Yeah, I wouldn't be alive. There's absolutely no question, no question at all. The horror that I was living with forget about it, absolutely forget about it. But I got really, really lucky because I knew something was wrong. I got very lucky that not only did I realize something wasn't right, I also got very lucky in that I knew there had to be more to life than this. I did not get born to wake up every day to be

We are going to find a way out of this.

What would you like to say to Audrey Osha, say something to you for life?

Yes, yeah, yeah, It's no secret that Audrey saved my life. There's no question because she when I was really bad, she looked at me and she saw me and she saw my sick brain as two separate things. And that was very, very lucky that she did. So I'm so grateful for Audrey's kindness and care and self reflection and willingness to work on this all right, because I was told, you know, after I've got divorced, and I was a bit MOPy made of mine just said, mate, look, there's

Hard, I believe, just keeping up with the parts of the alphabet that you know about.

There's a lot.

Anyone that tries to tell you that marriage is not a participation support is lying to you.

All right.

There's getting married and then there's staying married. They're two different things, and one of them is a far more active, participatory kind of thing.

You really need to do it. You can't just expect it to be there.

And you know, there's times where, like anybody, like, there's times where you're like, I don't know how we're going to get to the end of the day is to be married, and then at nighttime you're on the couch.

Oh my god, I love your shit? Are you?

And I'm just so grateful that Audrey is as of today, still willing to work on it with me.

I've put her through the Ringer.

Man, but she's not alone, you know, and I'm very I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that she still has the willingness to work on this with me.

When you talk about also being a good dad to Wolfy as well, how old he now nearly six, What is the most important thing for you to model for him? Like you said, people are always saying I tell my kid this, and I tell my kid that, which is not really taking into account as you said, they're watching what we do.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's the most important?

I think at this point it is to be kind and to be courageous and just teaching to be kind, try shrying to be kind and shrying to be courageous, all right, but you know he's five and it's going to make mistakes. But that's also you know, to be kind to yourself, to give yourself a break.

Oshagunsberg, Kate Langbrook. If if you were to.

Lose everything materially and you were down to the essence of yourself, what part of yourself would you want to hold onto the most?

Curiosity? I think I think that's the for me.

That's the key is to try to be curious, and remember when I'm not being curious, just try to notice what's going on. Like I'm here without any of my stuff or my things or my little hand holdly thing that I play with, and I'm talking to people like you or my sauna or my kids or whatever.

How do I feel about that?

Because if I noticed how I feel about it, then it's the two of us. It's the person that might feel shitty about it and the person that's looking at the person feeling shitty about it. And now I have a choice, because if I'm just in it, I don't really have many choices. Do I start to just be reactive and that's probably not a great place to be.

So I would say, yeah, curiosity, and are you happy?

Happiness is not a destination, nor is happiness at all something that lasts. Happiness is something that we must work at. Happiness is something that is never permanent, and happiness can only exist when we have sadness. Everything oscillates and we have to be okay with that.

All right.

We can find happiness, but it doesn't It doesn't show up when we buy shit. And this is the great fallacy of the community that we live in. And I'm as bad as anybody. Oh, look, other hour glass time I can put it in most Yes, I love that, all right, I'm as bad as anybody. I've got four pairs of headphones sitting on this desk. Can I wear four pairs of headphones at once?

No?

But I have four pairs of fucking headphones because I'm an Happiness does not arrive from the purchase of stuff. Happiness arrives from helping another person. Where are communal species? We evolved because we banded together in communities, and forty people are much better at looking after themselves than four, all right, And it is through helping others that we are wired to feel better. We are wired that we

What do you think is your primary service?

My primary service?

So I know that communicating with people is a big thing for you.

I just want kids to be.

You know, I want I want my kids to be a positive addition to the community we live in. All right.

That's that's the best.

That's what That's the best I can do, all right, that if I can make these two and help these two wonderful, incredibly wonderful people be a positive contribution and a positive addition to the community we live in, then then that's everything that I can. If I can help them find the things that they want in life, then that's it.

Man, that's it. It wasn't just me. That was like a lot of people have to be there, Like we all work to do that. There's a lot of people.

In our life that helpful, sure, the village, but you also have an extraordinary work ethic.

I don't know how to not do it, all right, I don't know. I don't know what. I don't know what to do with myself If I'm not working, I don't.

I know what you'll do sauna, I spa therapy, but you've got.

To make money to pay the therapist. Cake, they're not free. Okay, maybe you need shoes you got from somewhere, all right?

Ohha, thank you for joining us on No Filter. Thank you, thanks for letting me poke around in your head.

There's a lot of stuff in there than.

I should also thank you because I remember I was on radio once with a bloke you work for a long time, Mattie Acton, and it was a breakfast radio.

It is a tricky beast and it was one morning.

You know, I got fucking caught up in a bunch of shit in my brain and I kind of got caught up with something and I heard you rightly critique some ship that I sat on air, and I was really grateful you did that.

Oh do you remember that?

What was it? I no, I can't remember. I said something fucking dumb and what what's flavor of it?

Was something about I think you was referring to a doctor.

I was, I don't know what was going on with me, and he goes, so you doctor, did he do this?

And I went, come on, Matte, doctors can be women. Too, dude, And it was.

Like something that guy all right, Like I had a felt on and yeah, you know, and I was on about you know, patriarchy, this and that and the other, and you talked about it on air and I remember reading it and I went, you know what, she's you know, that's fucking that's fair. And it gave me an opportunity to have a look at where it was.

And I was, actually, you know what.

That was probably I've been a little caught up in a bit of this business, and it gave me an opportunity to have a bit of reflection and a bit of space on that.

And so I'm grateful that you did that.

I can't remember it, but thank you. I thank you for the thank you.

No, it's important.

It's important that we need to be able to change our minds because at the time I wouldn't have said it on air if I didn't believe it right, But when you spoke about it, I've kind of had a bit of a think about it, and you know what, that was a bit of.

A oh oh, it's here.

Being a puppet for the patriarchy is not something he can call anybody else out on because he works on a show called The Bachelor that pimps out a dozen young women to one man who's often a stripper, not always.

Oh my goodness, we were.

Were we?

I was also wearing a felt hat, mind you, I was filling three hours a dance.

Was wow, that's amazing and we could have we could have just done it.

On top of a top of likening the reality show to one that pimps out young women, Langbrook slammed Gudsburg for calling his co host a puppet. You cannot Gunsburg accuse anybody else of being a puppet, a tool, or any part of the patriarchy as long as you are this person. The show then proceeded to play a snippet ofhs audio from the Batchel.

And so wow, I'm grateful you.

Oh things got hated between you and act and on Thursday, when Acting referred to a listener's boss as mail, Oh my goodness, I don't remember any of these well, but.

I love I'm grateful that you.

Isn't that wonderful how memory works for one, But I'm also I'm just grateful that I'm grateful that you did that all right, because we're not always going to get it right. And as we said at the start of this conversation, you know, I've chosen to put myself out into the public and at the of what the public think about what it is that I do.

Some of those things I take and go nothing to do with me.

Some of those things I go, you know what, You've got something there and I might need to I might need to check that. And so I'm grateful that you did that because it started me on a different way of thinking about things.

So thank you.

Well, I'm also checking myself. You know, you've got to check the checker.

I believe it was asked QB who said you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Believe you are right, my friend, AUVOI Osha, see you soon, my friend.

I think it's easy to think.

Sometimes that people we see on our televisions are really the sum of the parts that we see, and Osha is the living embodiment of the fact that there's so much more than what comes through the television. If you've ever found yourself in a moment of reinvention or wondering what comes next, I hope this conversation has been helpful and has made you realize that you're not alone. In that boat in the Life Vote. I'm Kate lane Brook, host of No Filter. The executive producer is Nama Brown.