Even after that night, I couldn't let my husband touch me, and he never touched me after that night ever again. We never kissed, ever again.
Natalie Bassingthwaite has spent more than two decades moving between music, television and theater, building a career that's made her one of Australia's most recognizable performers. She began in musical theater, performing in the original Australian production of Rent before becoming the front woman of Rogue Traders, and became a household name when she stepped into Ramsey Street as easy On Neighbors, a character who quickly became one of the show's most
iconic and unforgettable villains. Since then, Nat has worn a lot of hats, singer, actor, television host, coach on The X Factor, and now once again a musical theater lead as she prepares to step into the beloved role of Jenna in the Australian production of Waitress. But in recent years,
Natalie's life has taken a turn she never expected. After years in a long term relationship and raising two children, Natalie has spoken publicly about the profound personal shift that came with falling in love with her now fiance Pip Loth. It's a relationship that's opened up an entirely new chapter in her life, one she writes about with striking honesty
in her upcoming autobiography Love Like This. Today, she joins me to talk about that new chapter about love, identity, family, what it feels like to rebuild a life in full view of the public. We also talk about returning to musical theater, the place where her career first began, and why this moment in her life feels like a kind
of second beginning. Nat Bass Natalie bassing Thweite, I don't think we've ever had on no filter, which is where you are anyone who's had such a breadth of how they are known to the Australian public as an actor, as a host, as a mother, as a lead singer, as a wife, as a woman in a committed heterosexual relationship, as a woman who's now with a non binary partner,
as someone who is an author. And it seems like there might be a difference between Natalie Bassingthweite, the little girl that sprang up in Woollongong and that baths.
Is there, who is that?
Who is with that?
And that is and where did that come from? Who came up with that? I don't know's been so long now that it was like when did that happen to be.
In that bass?
Yeah? I have read your body?
What a read? What a life?
Yeah, it's actually kind of strange to talk about it, to be honest, because it's been so long, obviously in life in the making, but also in the actual pen to paper and to keyboard type process, and now talking about it is strange. What means to cut in the end, Like my head is so full, I'm like, where did we know?
Well? Also, sometimes I think when you've written things, it's very different from saying them out loud.
So different, Yeah, very much so, Like it's a lot more healing as well. You know, it's at times torturous, I think digging up stuff that you don't want to face or that you've forgotten about, or that you know, starts another little trigger spiral or like another little trauma spiral. But ultimately it was just so cathartic in the end. Took a while to feel that, but it feels like
a release. It feels like a big sigh, a big breath out, you know, of like holding on for so long and then just being able to go.
And there's also a part of you, I think from my own experience, when you tell the truth about things, that becomes its own reward and then it yates its own momentum. So it's almost like casting off things that you thought that you couldn't or aspects of yourself that you couldn't show. Yeah, and then when you start to reveal them, how does that feel?
I Mean there's times when like telling your story feels too much. It's like I don't know if I want this out there, And I think that's honestly why I've avoided it so much. Like I was asked to write a book I don't know when five years ago, and I was like, hello, I don't want anyone knowing my deepest, dark as secret, and I'm not one to kind of hide. I'm definitely one to protect myself, but I'm not one
to yeah too high. So it was look, it was an exploration in itself, but it was it's just really confronting.
Where did the impetus come from to write the book? Now?
Well, clearly the last few years have been crazy for me, like personally career wise as well, but more so personally and I felt like I had broken down so many barriers that I had held really close, like they were not coming. It was not coming apart at all. It was just going to be like protect, protect protected, or costs, cover up, cover up, cover up. And it just when I was doing jagged Little peel and I met peep, I started writing again, like poetry. And I remember saying
to me, what music do you listen to? And I was like, I don't know. I mean, it was the weirdest question or ridest answer, and They're like, what do you mean? And I was like, I don't know. I don't I haven't listened, like really listened to music for so long. I've just been on this roller coaster of life and surviving and thriving. You know, life. Life's been
pretty great, you know. But I mean, obviously I'm so menopausal like all of us ladies at this age, so my brain is just like, also, I've just done like seventy hour weeks where I'm like, I finished really late last night and another on a suit. So I'm like, did you ask me?
So you were talking about the music and this you write about this here in love like this, and it's a very interesting thing. Because music has always been such a huge part of who you are, so that when someone says to you, what music do you like and you can't answer that, do you think that was almost a metaphor for where you were in your life at that time, in other words, that you were not connected with your inner.
C Yeah, well I just thought major Cousto. Yeah, one hundred percent. I think I had learnt very early on to survive emotionally is just put a little bit of armor on and then put another bit, and then put another bit and another bit and another bit, and then you're not feeling anymore. Yeah, there's no like, there's like feeling at a surface level, which was really quite odd
for me too, because I'm such an emotional human. But I still feel like there was this big protection up that to not really listen to music the way I listened to it, or then to write the way I wrote, or to lie really I honestly fell in my heart and I know I've written this in the book. My heart was just like had a little all around it, just protecting it so it wouldn't fully expose or be raw. And after doing that show and it was raw.
Well, I have to tell you something, because Jagged Little Pill was such a if you look at your life at where there are critical defining moments, Jagged Little Pill the stage production seems to be one of those moments for you in which in which everything changed. But I actually saw you in that production in Melbourne. It was after lockdown, and I went with a girlfriend and I didn't know much about it at all at the time.
I mean, I knew it was the music of Alanis Morrissett blah blah blah, yeah, and that the story had been kind of retro fitted to it. Anyway, I think an interval and the whole thing was significant because it was post lockdown, so it was the first time a lot of people had been in a theater with other people around, and just to be out was significant. But at interval, at interval, my girlfriend said Genatt bass is amazing and oh waiting, no, well, hang on, I said,
which one's that bass? And I did not realize. I did not realize that you were MJ. I did not know that that was you, that I had been watching you and in fact, I'm so happy to say to you, not only watching you, but marveling, going gosh. She think this perform is incredible.
And it was so wild. That's so wild and such a huge compliment, Thank you.
A massive compliment. There was something very significant about that stage show also for me in the audience.
And everyone felt like that, you know, at different times. It was such a beautiful, vote heavy show because people did feel stuff themselves that they'd probably forgotten to like. It was such a connective piece of theater. You know, you selt what they selt. They saw what you saw.
It was, Yeah, would you never know in the audience if it's just a really a remarkable cast doing remarkable things. But reading your book, it becomes apparent that there was a lot of stuff going on with the performers as well.
Oh yeah, yeah, and with you.
So you came to that production and this is what we all know of your life that you were with Cam who was in Rogue Traders with you. He was your husband, You had two beautiful kids. Oh you're still you're not. You've consciously uncoupled, but not legally.
We still do gigs yeah all the time. Right yeah, yeah, so not still his husband, but still right.
I was like, wait, what not his wife? You never were as.
Shit? Someone put me to bed and so in.
The process of that, and you had moved to the most significant thing that we're aware of in the you know, in that blur of what we know about celebrities, you know, through news or whatever. You had moved to Byron Bay a few years earlier.
Which I loved. It was such an obviously significant move for all of us, but it was what we needed.
And when you say it was what you needed as a family, what was.
That, you know, it was just a sense. I mean personally, I really needed to ground myself. I feel like the life that we live is so flast case and you're here, there and everywhere. It's really hard to just stop and take stock of what is and isn't happening in your life and be together as a unit. Like Cam and I a couple of years before that were like where do we like, what are we doing? Like where do we want to be? And what do we want for our kids? Put like more importantly, you know, like what
do we want for them? And we were looking at you know, it's that stage where you're looking at high schools and like what are they going to? What's the next part of the life for them? And it just didn't feel like it fits for either of us, even though I was the one that was like, oh my gosh, I think we should go do this, and but ultimately it was Cam that made the decision. It went all right, let's go, let's sell the house, and I'm like, what
we're doing this? And yeah, it was just a really nice shift in We were just so much more connected when we came up to Byron, you know you have more and thank goodness because it was we moved two months before COVID from Melbourne, so we missed that whole, like, you know, such gratitude because I, you know, my mental health hasn't been great on and off, like it's been amazing and it's been terrible. But I don't know if I would have handled that very well. It's not being
outside or you know, being that contained. I think that might have sent me off with Yeah.
Well there was there is a sense of people who injured those lockdowns in Melbourne being like crushed flowers.
Yeah. I had two weeks in lockdown when I came back from New York, and yes, snowhere near as bad as so many people had it. But I need fresh air, like I feel very caged in, and so I got you know, we got thrown on this bus. I'm not thrown, but it felt like that there were, you know, soldiers and everything. It felt like I was a criminal and they put you on in the bus and they've got guns and they're like take you to this hotel. And it was the strangest thing, like I haven't done anything wrong.
Why am I here? And then you're in this hotel and yeah, it's not a horrible hotel, but you're trying to a window for two weeks. I remember ringing or they would ring every day to ask if you had any symptoms, and then they'd be like, I said, I'm not doing so well. Okay, I'm really kind of freaking out, Like I'm feeling like I just need to get outside. Is there any way that I can just go take a big deep breath? And they're like no, unless you
need an ambulance, you can't do that. It was really a very unraveling time, even just in that hotel room for two weeks.
And who were you in lockdown?
With other cast members like Leah Howard who was our associate director. I'm jagged, and also Peter Rutherford who's my musical director. So we all went over to America to learn the show. Because of COVID, they couldn't all come to Australia like they normally would, so it was a bit all over the place. But he was really confronting.
And I never video really. I don't know people, you know, we all video ourselves, won't the Lafe's amazing, but like, never really video myself when I'm unraveling, and they're like, have this video of myself? Just kind of I watched it not that long ago, so I, oh, my god, that was at my headspace, Like I kind of looked really vacant, like it wasn't me. I wasn't there, So it was awful to watch.
And do you think at the time that the unraveling, obviously, which was exacerbated by the lack of air and the confinement and the very strange times that we lived in, was there a sense that in your life there was an unraveling or a picking a part of the threads or things fraying? Then do you.
Think, Yeah, I think in homesight, absolutely, but I don't think I realized it at the time.
Because you talk about in your book, you talk about this euphoric I think it was at your your wrap drinks.
Oh yeah, where.
You ended up dancing on a table.
I always dance and you said, I mean it's been a while. I went, lie, you know that was my signature moves.
Well, as long as as long as there were tables. But Peepe, who had worked on Jagged Little Pill, you said to them in the midst of this euphoria, tell me what you said.
I said, if I wasn't married, i'd turned for you. Now this was about five or six years before Jagged Little Pill. And then I hardly saw that.
Well, oh that's right, Yes it was Chicago.
Was it not Chicago?
Right?
And I only did like a month or something in the Brisbane season, and we hardly even spoke. It was the strangest thing. They were just very sweet. I remember that my grandma had passed away at the time, and it was I was really emotional because you know, the show must go on, but then life still goes on too, and death still goes on, so you have to manage
those emotions. And pipp had bought me a little vegan chocolate, so I was veeking at time and just said, you know, times chocolates, see anything that can help in these moments. And I just thought, wow, that's so sweet. Times it like, we didn't hang out, we didn't have coffee, I did
like nothing. It was the strangest thing. I think Casey Donovan and I were on a mission to like, I don't know, we were just being a little bit tissy at the time, because you hold yourself together doing these shows, right, and you have to I've got to be so you know, good, I don't drink, you've got a better you know all of that. But then at the end you're like, all right, give me a table. I don't ready to like let
it all lose. So it was the It was the stranger at the time, but clearly now in hindsight even stranger.
Well, because sometimes I think you have those connections with people and they don't necessarily evolve into something else, and often they're more reflective of what's going on with you. Do you know what I mean? You see something in that person and it's about you.
Yeah.
You and Pip. Yeah, cross paths again, Dean, As you said four or five years later on Jag a Little Pill. Yeah, well they were the stage manager.
Yeah, they only did the second again. It was a bit like Chicago, you know, we'd done like the whole country or whatever wherever we went, and then Brisbane was the last bit, and same with Jagged. I think we did Sydney, then we went to Melbourne and went back to Sydney. So before the full unraveling, I think I knew them for three weeks, which flows my mind even to this day. I'm like, that's so strange.
When you say the full unraveling. What did the full unraveling look like?
Well, honestly, it's so I feel like it sounds so strange. But that night on stage when I sang Forgiven, I'm standing there and like every night I would, I mean, you saw it, you know, like I don't know what night you saw, but this show really like I really immersed myself into this role and it was weird because you're not that role. But then things start overlapping and things start going, oh that's me. Oh wow. I didn't think I even I didn't even think I even took
the role for me. I thought I took it for my manager who had passedway, which the whole other story, but I was like, oh, I think I need to do this for him. You know, the unraveling to me was standing there singing Forgiven. I felt you for it on that stage, on that Second Life opening night, I felt free, I felt seen that, I felt exposed, and I felt wow. But I felt like it was such a contradiction of life, like everything that was going on for me. I think I fell to the ground, tears
fell down my face. I mean that was pretty standard. I did that most nights, and I think I'm sure I wrote that in the book where you know you just immerse yourself. But I just walked off stage and I it was like there was no one else so strange. It was like there was no one else around, but yet everyone was there. It was just like this feeling of there's no going back, and I still didn't even know what that meant. It was just like this right.
I felt like my manager whod passed away, was like in me or around me, or supporting me, but yet everyone was watching that unraveling, Like I felt like the audience were there witnessing me just being raw and exposed for the first time in such a long time. You know, I turned fifty last year, so it was close to my fiftieth birthday a couple of years before. You know, I don't feel like I've ever really immersed myself into something creatively as much as that show, and I do
believe in it was the right time. Maybe it was. It was the constant reliving and telling of this story of abuse and gender identity and sexuality and whatever that we all in the cast were like feeling and thinking night after night that that was the moment that I was like, whoa, I just felt changed and it was really hard to understand what. And then obviously later on in that night when I had this like it was like I was so high and I wasn't high, but I had this like high and it was very weird.
It was very unusual, and I just yeah, I had this electricity. It was like electricity through my body and we weren't touching. It was like a magnet, you know where there's this like oh like it was like that. And I remember turning to fifth and I think you need to go, and they went, yeah, it was so weird.
They felt it also, Yeah, yeah weird. After a short break, we'll be back with more of my conversation with Natalie bassing Through. You were so consumed, at once consumed and at once projecting this extraordinary energy field that was happening to you. How did you look to Pip who was watching you night after night on stage but also seeing you seeing you backstage.
I don't know, that's probably a question. I don't know.
Have you ever discussed.
I told them, like, after that night happened. The next morning, I rang my friend and went, I need a therapist. I don't know what happened last night. Like between you would think that it was like a big weekend bender
on drugs or something like. It was like that. It was like a out of body something that I went with, you know, it wasn't even Yeah, So I did their therapy first, and then I think I was at home for a few days, and then I came back to the show and that's right, and we went out on the Thursday night and I was telling him about how I was feeling, just going, I don't know what happened. So yes, we have discussed what I felt happened on the stage. And I'm quite a spiritual. My kids folk
on me woo person. Kip's not like that. So they're like, well, this is strange, and I'm like, I know, but they also very beautiful and supportive and open that they just listened to me going, I mean I even after that night, I couldn't let my husband touch me. And he never touched me after that night ever again. We never kissed ever again. It was so bizarre for him and me.
And yes, because you wrote in the book you said, why can't I be around masculine energy anymore? And this returned to Byron with your husband, the father of your children, with whom you'd built this beautiful, loving life.
Yeah, nothing like I couldn't you know, he would try and reach out or everything in my body said no, don't touch me everything. And so then it became the unraveling of what has just happened to me? What has just gone on? And I had like, you know, therapy on my own, and then Cam and I were like, we need therapy together because why all the feelings? Why don't know? Don't I want you to be near me? Like yeah, So it was a massive process of trying to understand all of that.
And also for him so hurtful.
Absolutely like he's like, where's my wife gone? And every time he said that, it was like my body froze and went even the word wife was I didn't like it. My body was like, don't call me that and I didn't say that, but everything in my body was like, I don't. I didn't like the ownership. I didn't like the the size of him, Like he felt very big and scary. And one night I think I told him that he was terrifying and he's like, me terrifying, that's crazy, and I'm like, that's how I felt.
And then he said to you, are you a lesbian?
Yeah? And you said I couldn't say anything. Nothing came out of my mouth because I was like, I don't know, am I like, how can I had like a chemical reaction to somebody and not like I just didn't know how to answer it. And also to hear that come out of his mouth out of nowhere was not so bizarre, you know. I don't think a single word came out of my mouth. I was just sitting in the corner like, yeah.
And you speak very beautifully about him in the book, and what strikes me having read it is that he had to both of you had to do this, really, I guess, find the way in which you loved each other outside of that relationship that you had had as husband and wife.
Yeah, and it's still a daily thing, you know, it's not like. The thing is I never fell out of love with Cam. That's the weird thing because that's not what happened. You know, Like you hear these stories, they're like I'm over them or him or her or whatever, and then I'm looking or I'm like that wasn't that wasn't our story. None of that happened. It was just this night on stage, this thing afterwards, and then like what and then the not being able to be held,
touch nurtured by him, men masculine. That was the That was the unraveling of like why, And I have more of an understanding of it now, but it's still bizarre.
Yeah, of course because before that, and also before Cam, you'd been you'd been married already to a guy. You'd had him, an affair that you speak about very honestly when you were nineteen. He was in his fifties. Yeah, you had been an unquestioning I guess, an unquestioning woman who went out with and fell in love.
With me totally. It wasn't even an until I mean, like kids, the thing, I've always thought women are beautiful, Yes, doesn't everyone like.
You know, well, we are everyone we are We were not.
Kid but I've had amazing relationships with men. I've been in love with men, so that's not a question either. But it was very suddenly, I can't have you touch me anymore, or I can't It's like not even a kiss, nothing, couldn't do it. And the whole body said, no.
What did he do during that process? Like you were trying to sort stuff out? Obviously he was trying to store sort stuff out, and you've got two dearly loved children.
I mean he was unraveling the poor man's like where like you know, like you said, where's my wife? And I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. And I'm not the same person. I see, I'm the same person, but I'm so the way that I speak, the way that I speak up, the way that i've I'm different. I never did that. I kind of not that. I it was quiet. I'm allowed human.
But you're also very good at playing roles.
Yeah, I hope so like in real life. Yeah, I mean I've done it a long time, right, and I think it's hard to make sense of that part of it, honestly. Yeah. I get to in my creative world deep dive into other people's lives that may be some somehow that is avoidant of self.
But at some stage also because your life is and your work is for the public, the public have an appetite to know about people that they are interested in. So then you had to bring this to the public or it was voisted upon you.
Yeah, that was so incredibly emotional on so many levels because I think I was still figuring out, like what the hell was going on? You know, I was still unraveling in my own time with my family unit trying to make sense of that. You know, to feel like that it could be public knowledge or scrutinized or degraded or anything felt debilitating and solacious.
It's very salacious.
Yeah, it felt silatious and it felt I think one thing that's triggered me a lot is having people do things for those reasons, and I'm not that person, Like I'm like, treat people with love and kindness. Like we all have stuff, we all have baggage, we're all not you know, we all make mistakes, and do you know what.
I think that is one of the reasons why in the end, I was like, I'm ready to tell my story and I'm not embarrassed about the really things that once upon a time I was so ashamed of or it started to make sense to me after this period in my life where I'm like, oh my god, this is where I'm at and it's okay. You know, social media is so like I'm perfect, everything's perfect, Like, actually, no one's life is perfect, and I think it does
help people when you share that. It's scary, it's really scary, but it's also I mean, look, who knows books about to come out. Probably yeah, people like you know, but it felt for the first time in my life. I'm okay to say it because after doing so much therapy, all of those things that happened have led me to this space and I feel like I am personally so happy, like full of joy. I'm completely tired and do weary, its because it happens to stop working a million hours.
But my kids are a man amazing, My relationship is amazing. My work stuff is just so great. You know. My relationship with my ex is pretty darn good considering all that's happened. And that's that's a privilege.
Well, like you said, you're touring together too, Yeah, yeah, which is I can't even imagine how how that is.
Yeah, I mean, you know, touring with someone that you're together with or not can be challenging at the best of time. But we spend a lot of time working out how to be in this next phase, you know, and we had great mediator sessions with this incredible woman who it wasn't really about money or assets or anything like that at this point. It was like, how do we be how do we do this next bit? And for the cure to be okay that was the biggest priority for us. And she got the white bought out.
She's like, where do you what are your kids like? And what do you want for them? Do you want them to go to UNI or do you want them? And we both will look at each other and we want we just want them to be happy. And they said, well, she said, well what does that look like? And we said, well, I guess you know, if we're happy, they're happy. And that is the truth with kids, you know, we if we can be okay with each other, then they're going
to be great. The definitely the family unit. I think that was the hardest thing for all of us, and the thing that I just kept fighting against being in this space of true self love to sacrifice that for everyone else. Like that was the fight of like, I can't do this, but everything in my body and mind
was saying, you have no choice. This is this. You can't not be yourself and teach your children like your children need to know that you have to take care of yourself in every way I think, and yes, we all make sacrifices, but for your kids to see you truly happy is pretty important. I think.
We'll take a quick break now, but do not go anywhere, because there's much more from Natalie Bassingthwaite coming up. When you were having those conversations with the kids, which I gather you and Cam had tried to insulate yourself a little bit to you to get a sense of even for each other, what was going on. Yeah, but when you had to bring the children in to the conversation, Yeah, how was that and how did you approach that?
It was really hard? But Harper had heard a lot of stuff, because you know, when you're going through some pretty heavy stuff, you overhear things.
How old was she then?
What was it four years ago? Did'tven what you are? What's regular? Yeah? Twenty twenty two, so she was twelve and she was just insanely incredible. You know. She asked me, are you a lesbian? And I was like, whoa that question again? Yeah, and again I didn't even know how to answer. I was like, I don't even know, Like I don't know, you know, at that stage, I just had the moment on stage, that feeling after of that electricity, and then the what is going on with my life?
Like what are these feelings? And also the separation from him as well, like it was just the full like all of that was going on. So when she said that, I was like, I have no clue what's going on. So I had to just be honest and say I don't know, and then I think. And it was another time when she was talking about something else with it, and I just said, I just don't want you to be embarrassed or ashamed of me, and she just looked at me and helped me, and she said, I'd never
be embarrassed or ashamed of you as fike. M yeah, m hmm, pretty amazing.
Mmm, that's beautiful.
Yeah, And that's that's the fear, you know, in life as well, like in the media of like mm hmm, I thought I'd lose all my jobs, my endorsements, my hmm.
Yeah, but it is the nature of the work that you do is that it's at once professional but also deeply personal. Yeah, so to to reveal the most personal.
Aspects of your it's really scary.
Yeah, it's scary. It's very a word that's overused, but it is brave, it's courageous because.
We know we didn't feel like that.
No, Well, you had this compulsion that you couldn't you know, you the wind was at your back, You couldn't turn around and walk back into that wind. You were really being blown into uncharted waters.
Yeah, that's totally what it felt like. I'm like, what it was? The full unraveling of everything that I've known so far in my life?
And then how was pit while this process was going on? They sound like they're a very patient person, whereas you don't strike me as particularly patient, do you know what they just?
I mean, I don't think either of us knew what it was. So it wasn't like we weren't in relationship. We were just like what was that? What was that electricity? It was so them, you know, doing JAG A little pill two was an opening for themselves to understand themselves as well. Like before that they identified as she her, and then that show they were like, Oh, I think this is me. I think I'm non binary. How do
you feel about that? And I was like, you have to be you whatever that is, no matter what you know. And that was not us in relationship. That was us friendship and just trying to both I think both things were happening for us individually also collectively at the same time. You know, I was like, who am I and what is all this about? And they're like, who am I? And what is all this about? That they you know, we didn't speak for weeks because yeah, he said, you know,
do I feelings to someone? And I said yeah, and he said is it a woman? And I said yes, and he I think we were. I think it's the first time I said it, and it was freaky to say it, and then once it's out of your mouth, you can't take it back. But I still didn't understand what it meant at that time, but I went yeah, and of course, you know, he was horrified and angry and scared. I'm sure, and yeah, then it was the trying to nut out what to do about it.
You also say something that will resonate with so many people who have seen the end, the collapse of what was their unit, their family unit. You said, I'd never realized how much identity hides in routine until it was gone.
Yeah.
That gives me goosebumps actually, because there's so much about the you know, chop would carry water, normal thing.
The day to day, Yes, the day to day. It's getting up. Who does the right first? Who does the theirs? Were used to drive, that's it. You used to drive to you know, school, pie c up and drop off. And yeah, that stuff is hard to not have anymore, that family unit, Christmases, birthdays, you know, mm hmm. It's sacrifice, h it's yeah. I mean, I think the scary thing is to not feel selfish by being who you know is the right thing, the right youth.
That's a very interesting situation because and a conundrum because it is selfish. Yeah, it's purely selfish in the sense that it's about yourself. Yeah, and yet you have to mess to gate that against love and duty and honor and commitment and promises made, yes, but mostly to yourself.
Yeah. I think that's the hardest thing, is to blame yourself.
And did you do that?
Oh? Yeah, a lot. But I still didn't really understand why how when, like I said, I didn't go out searching. It wasn't like everything was so shit that I was like, all right about none of that happened. It wasn't that story, So it didn't really make sense.
So now with the clarity and wisdom of hindsight, in that moment where you were bridling against Cam using the word wife, that was almost it sounds like almost an instinct. Did you know did you know in those moments that there was a finality to it or did you still think that you would be able to therapy or navigate your way out of it and back into what had been normal.
I didn't know there was a finality to it at all. I didn't have a clue what was going on at that time. I just knew that I couldn't let him physically be near me. And the hindsight stuff came with lots of therapy, lots of unraveling of masculine I feel like there's been a lot of stuff that's happened to me over my life with different men that have felt really controlling and manipulatives, and I've never felt that with Can.
That was the weirdest thing, but it's almost like he had to bear the brunt of everyone else in that moment, and like he would say to me, it feels like you're treating me like I've over abused you. That's what he would say to me, and I'm like, I know you haven't, but when everything in my body feels the same, it's very.
Odd in that moment when someone that you love is hurting so much.
Yes, but you don't.
Have the vocabulary or the understanding to even know what's going on with yourself. Yeah, could you comfort him?
Or oh yeah, I think I think we both through it all. We're trying so hard to comfort each other, but it would be oscillate between that and anger clearly fair enough. Yeah, I asked me if you'd be in a polyamorous relationship and I was like, even, na, Like I don't even know if I could do that, but it just made no sense of how to make it just didn't make sense sense. He's like, oh my god, I see so much with you, with the world I'm
not going to share. And I was like, yeah, fair enough, Like saying probably wouldn't work for me either, but it just just trying to make sense of it. We were we tried to do all the things the therapist eventually said, because I didn't speak to Pit for a while, and then the therapist said, maybe you need maybe Natalie needs to see it. And Cam's like, oh bloody, you know, like really and yeah. I ultimately after liked I think a week or whatever, I just it just didn't sit
well with me. I'm like, I don't no, That's not what I'm trying to do here. That's I'm just going, how can I have such a physical spiritual electrical reaction and go, oh, well, I don't know what that was, like what is that? And or so side by side, not wanting any physical or anything with that, Like, I just none of it made sense to me. I didn't need to see them again to know that I'd had
that feeling. We did have stuff that wasn't perfect, like any relations HyET, but I think I was so guarded that I kind of didn't see a lot of stuff. I didn't really I wasn't really fully allowing all of it in because I was so shut down, I think.
And exactly that point that you make about you know, identity, hiding in routine.
In routine and just and keeping quiet, I think I learned for a long time to keep quiet or be small, because that would be better off for everyone.
And you are small but mighty correct.
Yeah yeah, mm.
Hmmm, Oh Jesus, it's amazing, it's really amazing.
Thank you.
I don't want to be one of the people that's underestimated you. But I think I've underestimated you. Oh not not, you know, just because there's so much to you. Yeah, And of course we couldn't know that. We couldn't know.
You couldn't know because I kept the facade so great. It was like, but I think we all do that. I don't think I'm special in that regard.
No, but you forget you're a good actor. You're a very good actor.
Yeah, but you know what, I'm a terrible liar. This is the funny. Yeah, me too, Like I am the worst liar, Like like my kids go, you can't lie. I'm like own, like I feel like I can once I'm in a character here I can deep dive, but in real life, like yes, here it is you know especially now, like I can't. You can't hide once once that's the walls are broken down. It's it's real or real or nothing.
You know, you know how you said that you're worried about your work and your endorsements or whatever. That didn't happen. In fact, no, in fact, you've never been more in demand, it would say.
I feel. You know, what I feel is that I feel because I'm so connected to myself, I'm not afraid to be so open or raw or real or I don't think I had a choice on stage that night. It just was. It just happened. It was the culmination of the show, but also my life lived to that point. I don't think that I had a choice, but ultimately I did have to choose, didn't I.
And your work has continued to flourish.
Yeah, but I think because I'm like, I've just been doing this film and I like it's my first like big lead role in a film, and I feel I'm really proud of myself. Like years ago, I film it's called Love, Wine and Valentine, and I just did the play Shirly Valentine at one mom play and I'm like, oh, you know, all this like synergy and like I'm like, how strange that, you know? And initially the director wanted me to play the role of Valentine, and I'm like hilarious,
that's funny. And then she came to see me in the play and went, oh my god, I think you're the lead role. I think you're Sophie. And I'm like, what I think it's because I'm so connected to myself that I'm just so open now and I and I don't I don't hate myself, you know, I look at myself now and go, go you. You are talented, and there's been times where I've not felt.
That, which I find amazing. I find that extraordinary having. But I do think there's a tendency sometimes to take people for granted, and particularly you know, you came to public attention in neighbors. I think there's a real tendency in this country, not overseas so much, I don't think, but to go, oh, well, they're just from neighbors. On now she wants to be a singer. Ah, Now she's been cast in his without recognizing what your origin story
as an artist was. That from when you were a little girl in Woollongong, you've been singing and dancing and you're a proper triple threat. So now you've been cast this year is a great year for you.
It's so strange, like lead role in a movie, lead role in a musical. I'm about to do Waitress a musical, which is just so exciting. I love the show so much. Yes, and got to see it in New York when I was doing Jagged, So there's all this like as well.
When you were watching it, did you ever think I will play that role?
When I watched it, I was in the audience with Leah again, Leah the associate director, and Ruby Rose, and the three of us were all very well. Ruby and I were clients of Mark, my manager who passed away, and Leah was a very good friend. Slash worked with Mark a lot. We all watched it and we left the theater. I think my jaws on the ground going. I said, I think that's one of the best shows I've ever seen. That's a big statement because I've seen a lot of great shows. But it was just it
was a human story. It was so real. The music's incredible, like Sarah Brarellis's music is just like oh, and it just spoke to me and I was just like, gosh, if that show ever comes to Australia, I need to play Jenner. And yeah, I auditioned for it and three months later got the role.
So it was a lot right and now, of course, because Jenna in the in the story is late twenties, I know, right, okay.
Hight, okay, I'm late twenties right. Well, I know there was a bit of backlash about that apparently, Yes, I was too old.
Yes, when you got cast. Yeah, And I'm not suggesting that the onus is on the person that gets cast. To go, hang on a minute, you know, shouldn't you be looking at twenty year olds for this? But did it occur to you at any point as you're going through the audition process and these are rigorous processes.
Yeah, very much.
So did you at any point think did you litigate against yourself? In other words, did you think I'm not I can't get this role because of age.
When I first was thinking about going for it. Definitely that enters your mind, Like I was like, if they even would consider me, you know, But it's just so fascinating. I feel like the ageism thing happens with other women. I think that's what was the strangest thing with this show. When I finally got it, She's too old, like da da da, And I'm like, actually, escap can you need to have experience to put these roles life experience, and
I have that. I know these stories. I feel like I can dive into that, and I think it says a lot about I mean, when people are negative about these things, I think, you know, it did hurt as well, like oh wow, okay, yeah, okay, I am old and I'm also young. You know, somehow it says a lot about other people. I think in the end, I have to look at it like that. I think that we should all be able to immerse ourselves into whatever you're
not going to get. Put it this way, They're not going to give me the role for the sake of it. Like the process that has to happen to get a role like this is all the Australian producers and the American producers. Sarah Burellis is an independent you know, her own artist in her own right, and she's also done it, so everyone has to say. Yeah. So when people are, you know, bagging you or the choice, you're not only bagging me, but you're bagging the creators who have made
the choice. And it's like, you know, they would never just chuck someone in it. They need it to work for themselves as well, so.
And on your behalf, I did bridle at the term stunt casting, which implie, yeah, that's crazy because neither you nor Rob Wills are stunt casting. What you are is.
Better in a long time.
Yeah, it's correct.
They didn't.
You just didn't just pop up on you know, instat.
And it's a big show, like like you have to vocally, it's a really big but the acting in this show is really important because it is a musical theater show, so that makes you feel like everything's a bit over the top, but this show is like really earnest and really you can't not be real in this. So they needed someone who I guess wasn't too musical theater, but
maybe he's done some musical theater. It's a bit far's like, it was very specific, I think what they wanted, and I didn't know whether I would be that right person, But after about three months of you know, proving that I was, it ended up happening.
So I don't know if you have an answer to this, but I think for a lot of people it's the times, as we know, are confusing, right, So we live in an era in which non binary roles can only be played by non binary people or people of color, you know, not about us without us. So then in theater, if there's a twenty nine year old role or however old, the role is being played by a woman who's a couple of decades older than that.
Yeah, that sounds very do you know what I mean?
Like how people are like, how does that work? Then?
Does it?
Does it not apply to age or does it only apply to color and gender or whatever?
It is? Confusing? I agree with you, like, I don't know what the right or wrongs thing is in that space. Do we only do that or do we not? I can only say, oh, this such and such excites me. You know. I was asked if I was interested in the role, and I was like, hell, yes. And I don't want to do a lot of theater these days because as a parent, it's really time consuming. It has to be something that really speaks to me. And this show really spoke to me. Yeah, I mean there was
an article written about me the other day. You'd find this fascon eating too, and it was I don't know how long ago, but it was like half the peede into paper and all the things that I'm doing at the moment, which was exciting, But the headline was NAT's fifty did And I'm like, isn't that fascinating? Men never get that? Blah blah blah.
No, that's true.
Yes, why is it? And I'm proud of being fifty. I love it, like I'm in my element, I'm feeling joy. I'm more content internally externally like all the things. But I'm like, why does it need to be a headline about my age or our age? As women then never have that?
Well, there is a lot of curiosity. Is too mild a word? There's an obsession with women and how we age and how we look and how we navigate those things. And yeah, and is I think almost an impatience for people to embrace old age a certain way so then you can be relegated.
Yeah. And also I guess there was a time where women weren't doing all of these amazing things that we have the opportunities for now. We just weren't and we weren't seem to be as important, you know, And I think that's changed.
Whereas now we live in the times and at bass where a beautiful woman can get down on one knee at Niagara Falls and propose to the person she loves. Correct.
I never thought that would I never thought that was to be on my dingo card. There k.
So there will be another wedding.
Oh my god, I know. I was like, I don't want to get you know, I mean, of course there will. Like I've met this person who has not made me not shape. Like what's the word I'm trying to find? Just I feel like my most real self in every way, like the good bits, the bad bits, Like I'm so vulnerable with Pip and vice versa. You know, like we allow each other the space I hate that word allowed to Like we're giving commis, you know, we give each other the space to navigate ourselves and we're just there
with each other, like what do you need? What do you need? Like one thing that I love is like it's because we've both got really busy work lives and stuff. We go, hey, I really need you right now to have capacity for this. And that's been our new little because sometimes you're like, and I'm telling you to women, there's a lot of conversations, there's a lot of emotions, a.
Lot of carps of tea, a lot of carts of tea.
Communication, which is beautiful. But I'm like, sometimes you have to actually say do you have capacity for this today? And I think any relationship, it's such a beautiful thing to say when you have fuzzy lives instead of like about all this on for you when you're in the middle of something and you're like, oh, you know, it's just it's just such a beautiful thing. And to be supported in anything and everything that I do and vice versa.
We just we have each other's back in the most beautiful way.
Does the wedding have a shape yet or not yet?
Gosh, not yet? No, Like I would be just as happy with like a picnic or something, you know, but I think you know, so if it's so, it's such a special thing for them, and that has made it really special for me. Whereas before I was like, no, I'm clearly not good at this marriage thing, not for me, never going to do it again.
Well, I actually think you. I think you were really good at that marriage thing until you.
Yet until I will yeah maybe, yeah, I mean you know what we we were together seventeen years will be bad. And I think that is the mistake that a lot of people do say as well as like it was a failure it was this. It's like, actually I think it was a success. We have two sabulous kids, Like they're so amazing, and we we have a I think if you evolve, you evolve, and we've been able to evolve together even though we're not together.
And the measure of I think the measure of the success of any relationship is how loved you are. And this guy is still thumping the tubs for you on tour, do you know what I mean, Like, that's quite extraordinary.
Well, you know, he's been relationships since as well, and like we just have each other's back. I think that's the most important thing. It doesn't you know. Don't get me wrong. It's not all like you know, roses and whatever. It's not perfect all the time.
No, no, I don't. I don't imagine it to be roses, to be honest, I really don't. Round incredibly difficult.
But we've managed to. And it's not just Canon myself, it's also Peep as well, and it's also the kids. Like everyone's made sacrifices in this space.
If you project yourself into the future, even a couple of years, what does it look like, What does bass look like? Or Natalie bassing Thwaite or who are you?
Who am I?
What are you?
You know? I really feel like I've sound a nice place, like creatively and work wise, I'm doing things that inspire. I'm not afraid to take chances, like we've got a Road Traders album coming up for the first time, you know, like crazy stuff. We're going on tour again. Like work wise,
I'm really filled with joy. And my family life is beautiful, like the relationship that my kids have with Pith and vice versa, and that we all have as like different kind of family units now whether it's the ogs or the you know, the newbies or whatever, it's like we we all the priority is always the kids. So hopefully in five years time, we you know, and it's in me I want to like I'm renting again, because you separate and then you rent and then you're trying to
figure out where you are. Is like have that home base, like Pip and I have just put it to pulse on some land, So building that little slice of something to you know, Pip's really keen to have vegetable gardens and.
Maybe maybe you'll get the lamers you've always been accused of of farming, finally become a Larma farmer.
I know, socially a Lama farmer. That would be funny. So I think that is a real priority for me. It's just for the kids to feel secure in a space and to travel with them and hear and see parts of the world that we haven't experienced yet, and just immerse ourselves in nature as much as possible, but still do work that is creatively stimulating and challenging and doesn't send me into an institution.
Yes, yes, the institution is a grand old theater.
That's correct. Yeah, and then I'll and then I'll be there. So I think it's just really coming back to self even more in the next five years and being there for my kids.
That bass, I thank you so much for sharing yourself.
Thank you so much. That's the lot.
And I also can't wait to see you on stage because it's always magnificent.
Thank you, k I finish that so much, And to.
Say I appreciate you, yeah, I don't. Well, you know, there's a lot to be emotional about. I mean, I mean, you started this, so that's really the well spring, isn't it.
Yeah, there's just a sense of lightness now that I have that I just haven't had for such a long time.
There's something very moving, almost unbelievable about hearing someone talk so openly about the way life can change course, sometimes quietly, sometimes dramatically, often in ways we never imagined for ourselves. For Nat, this chapter has been about finding the courage to live more truthfully, to embrace love where she found it, and to trust that it's never too late for life
to open up in a completely new direct. She writes about that journey in her upcoming autobiography Love Like This, which explores not just the career many of us have watched unfold for years, but the very personal story behind the woman at the center of it. Thank you so much for listening to No Filter. The executive producer of No Filter is Breed Player. The assistant producer is Coco Levine. Audio production by Jacob Brown, Video editing by Josh Green.
I am Kate Langbrook, and I thank you for listening to No Filter.