¶ Republican Debate Recap and Analysis
You and I are told increasingly we have to choose between a left or right . Well , I'd like to suggest there is no such thing as a left or right . There's only an up or down . This is the no Doubt About it . Podcast . No doubt about it , and now your hosts Christy and Mark Roncetti .
Oh , night version . Yeah , this is the night version .
We should show the black sky behind us , because this is going to be a late night for everybody , but yeah , it is going to be a well worth it .
Yeah , debate recap version joined by Jay McCleskey . Don't , legendary debate prep guy , you're pretty good debate prep guy as well . This is going to be interesting .
You don't like my attention .
Yes , good point . Yeah , no , yeah . So we decided we wanted to do this because , first of all , the first Republican debate just wrapped up .
We're going to , we're going to talk all about that , and then some insights too , on on preparing for debates , the importance of certain qualities , that you need to be good at these sorts of things , and and some of what may seem effective now , but as you go down the road it will be an albatross across someone's neck .
Right .
These things are . You can walk out thinking I killed it , and then then your people get around you . They're like by the way , did you ever consider this ?
Then they just yell at you .
Yeah .
So let's start it off you guys , because I'm sure we all have our opinions on OK . So if we're going to pick a quote unquote winner , or who do you think took the biggest like award tonight ? Who dominated tonight in your opinion ?
I think that the Santas had to stop the bleeding tonight and I think he did . I think he had a couple of really good moments . I think early on he had a little cotton mouth , his little nervous little bit of a smile going where it's like the four smile .
But he had some good moments where he stopped everything down and basically disagreed with the premise of the question , which is that that old old time thing which you always talk about answer the question you want to answer , not the one they're asking . And he did that a couple of different times .
So I think he did a good job and so to me I liked what I saw from him tonight . Obviously , I think Nikki Haley was , was good , and I think you'll talk about that .
And then I think there are some people that were , just was , were a didn't need to be out there , like Aisa Hutchinson and Bergam probably didn't need to be there , and then and then OK , OK , OK , I'm going to shut you down now .
You're even all the way in one sentence .
So late at night , we really we got all the rules out .
Yeah , yeah , exactly . I'm sorry for going over 20 straight minutes , Jay . I mean I don't , I don't disagree .
I think that the Santas did what he needed to do . Yeah , I mean , you got to start there like who could have died after this debate and it was the . Santas and I thought he did not agree . He got stronger as it went on .
I think he got into his like counterpuncher mode , where he's pretty effective with the media , yeah , and I think that's he did that really effectively . He did what he needed to do . I think Haley accomplished some things she needed to do . She made a pitch .
I think that's like to keep her campaign alive too , because one thing people need to realize with presidential campaigns is they're expensive and if you lose donor support , your campaign's over . That's why . So that's why our current vice president did not make it to Iowa , like , if you run out of money early , you're done .
And so I think Nikki Haley did a really good job of appeal to a lot of donors with some of her answers . That'll do better , kind of , with that class versus voters , and we'll talk about some of those as we get going . I thought she did a good job .
Obviously , ramiswamy like was very aggressive and he , he , he was aggressive and he and it'll be interesting when we get the time of how long these people , how long they were speaking . He was out there a lot . Yeah , he took some positions that you know I don't think we'll get into this .
I don't think they were that effective going after him the way they did at the beginning . I think they landed some punches later , but he was . He was pretty effective early , I thought .
Yeah , I think that most of people are going to talk about the VEC . I think they're going to talk about this guy because I think he just he was the guy that every was chirping in on every single thing . But let me stop here .
The one person who won . It was Donald Trump , right .
Because it didn't change anything .
No , like that race is the same , you know , like DeSantis is . Yeah , we're just said DeSantis still there . Romer Swarming did well , like Haley's keeping her campaign alive . Guess who's still 30 points in first place ? Yeah , and I don't .
I think that's one thing that was was was surprising to me that there wasn't more of a concentrated effort to go after Trump . It was . It was really kind of hands off Trump and everybody else just start , you know , flinging it within the debate stage , which I think to some degree is a mistake .
So do you think they're going after vice president ? Do you think that that's what they're doing ? That ?
I think you're you're seeing in some degree one . You have to be the . You got to be the alternative , yeah , and so you got to fight to make yourself the alternative . The other thing is that you're looking like Pence , for example , was very aggressively going after this social conservative vote in Iowa .
Yeah , every answer he was doing was it was just aimed at Iowa voters . I think he's got other problems , so I don't know if that works , but there's a reason that Rick Santorum has won that before and Governor Huckabee and Cruz , like the social conservative Vote there's very strong and you could see that him just appealing to that lane really aggressively .
I actually think he did better than I anticipated him doing . I think he kind of I know I agree with you , jay , I don't think it's going to necessarily help him long term , but I do think he answered a lot of questions really strong . I was surprised , I have to be honest .
I think that having everybody also come to his for most people came to his defense over January 6th I thought that was pretty impressive on that stage to watch that all play out . And then he got some good early shots in on Vivek , which I appreciated .
Well .
I think the back is is exhausting .
Well , here's my , here's my issue with Vivek in this whole thing . You know you got 10 minutes into this debate and the first thing every time he would pop on , the first thing that came into my mind was I don't want the extended warranty , I don't want , I'm not paying for it , right , I just like what is happening . And it was .
He's too slick by half , and half the stuff he says is complete .
There was a , there was a point there were him and Pence are going back and forth and it was like if Pence would just shut up , this guy would kill himself . Yeah , like he was keeping him from going , like you know , off the ledge on some of these answers . That's true , they become their own worst enemy , I think in some of those times .
But I think , pence , going after him , you're too young . I don't think that's effective . I didn't think Christie was particularly effective going after him .
So let's .
¶ Vivek's Youth and Political Strategy Evaluation
Well I have to say , listen , vivek , to me his youth does hurt him in this particular situation . For somebody like me , anyway , the way I viewed him was I do think he comes off as a guy that is just giving you kind of the , the lines he thinks you want to hear that he read on the Internet somewhere .
I also feel like he's very millennial , like he's kind of feels like he's entitled to be the president already without having to do any of the other levels . And I'm not trying to fit in the millennial market out there , but they do have a reputation for basically coming straight out of college and saying , hey , give me the supervisor role right away .
And I think he is the . He was the epitome of that tonight .
Well , I think slippery is the way to describe him .
That's what he is , I don't know , I think he was . He'll have appeal , thank you . He will , I think his bigger problem is like your appeal is all going to be to Trump's base and they're not going to they're not going to get the real thing , so is he going for VP ?
I mean honestly , that's kind of the room .
Maybe , you wonder what he's doing .
Okay , so let's get into a couple of clips from him and this will give people a quick idea of what the deal is . Let's go , let's go to clip one and let's just talk about . This is how he sort of tried to frame things early as he was going back and forth with Vice President Pence . Take a look at this .
They have a real discussion now . The reality is that one of yours ? No , not really . We're just going to have fun tonight , and the reality is you have a bunch of people , professional politicians , super PAC puppets following slogans handed over to them by the 400 fates super PACs last week .
The real choice we face in this primary is this Do you want a super PAC puppet or do you want a patriot who speaks the truth ? Do you want incremental reform , which is what you're hearing about , or do you want revolution ? Okay , okay .
So his delivery is solid . There's no doubt . He came out and he didn't have the cotton mouth . He didn't . The oxygen wasn't gone from the room .
Because it doesn't take it seriously .
I don't think , well , maybe not but but but early on he tried to set himself aside . I just think over time he's the kind of stuff that once you look a little more into him , all of a sudden it's not . It starts to . It starts to get a little shaky , and I think Chris Christie points that out in clip four and then we'll get your response to it .
Here's clip four Chris Christie , I think this was Christie's best shot at the Vec . I think that Haley had a good one , but this is this is Christie's best shot at him and effectively drew something and drew a parallel to somebody who many Republicans may have a very clear memory of .
Hold on , hold on , Listen , listen listen .
I had enough hold on .
Hold on .
I had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chat GPT standing up here , and the last person in one of these debates , brad , who stood in the middle of the stage and said what's a skinny guy with an odd last name doing up here Was Barack Obama , and I'm afraid we're dealing with the same type of amateur there it is Okay .
That's the Chris Christie we are familiar with . Did you think he landed a glove with any of that ?
I think he landed a little bit on that , but I just I mean I think voters change their opinion when they get new information or when an issue gets framed differently . They all know he's the outsider , so the more they attack him for being the outsider .
I think that's what he's saying too , like if you're saying the same message he is , I don't know that it's all that effective . I mean , he's had some questionable things that he's gotten hammered on recently that they could have used having to do with 9-11 and things like that .
That I think that kind of information people hear that it's like whoa , you know , like that may make him reconsider things .
Well , I mean , I . That's what I was wondering is I felt like he talked a lot . I'm not sure he said anything . Did you feel like his message points were ? You know , I just felt like they were empty . They felt they felt cliche .
You know , I think , yeah , I mean , but I think here's here's an example the Ukraine question , which I think Nikki Haley did a great job as like a Reagan Republican fighting for what Reagan Republicans believe , but but there's a big chunk of that Republican base that's going to disagree with her on that .
And he was the only candidate who said he would not support that funding , and that means all those voters who feel that way have one candidate that agrees with them , and I think that's going to land . It may well as much as I disagree with it .
Yeah , and I do too . But let's take a look at clip seven . Here's Nikki Haley hammering Vivek on Russia .
Said of Governor DeSantis that you didn't appreciate it when he initially called it a territorial dispute . Why ? First of all , the American president needs to have moral clarity . They need to know the difference between right and wrong . They need to know the difference between good and evil .
When you look at the situation with Russia and Ukraine , here you have a pro-American country that was invaded by a thug . So when you want to talk about what has been given to Ukraine , less than three and a half percent of our defense budget has been given to Ukraine .
That's an unfortunate reference . She probably said that let's keep going .
Eleven of the European countries have given more than the US . But what's really important is go back to when China and Russia held hands , shook hands before the Olympics and named themselves unlimited partners . A win for Russia is a win for China .
We have to know that Ukraine is the first line of defense for us , and the problem that Vivek doesn't understand is he wants to hand Ukraine to Russia . He wants to let China eat Taiwan . He wants to go and stop funding Israel . You don't do that to friends . What you do instead is you have the backs of your friends . Ukraine is the front line of defense .
Putin has said if Russia , once Russia , takes Ukraine , poland and the Baltics are next , that's a world war . We're trying to prevent war . Look at what Putin did today . He killed Prugosen . When I was at the UN , the Russian ambassador suddenly died . This guy is a murderer and you are choosing a murderer over a pro-UN .
Boom .
Yeah , that was a good one , and I think that's going to have a lot of appeal for a lot of Republicans .
They don't keep her campaign going , but I think there's a big chunk . There is a big chunk and I don't know that it's so much Ukraine , it's more . What about us ? We're getting screwed as Americans .
But that's a false choice .
Right , but that's where voters are .
And I think there's a big chunk of it .
I think that's going to help . What was killing me in this whole Ukraine debate ? I wanted someone to connect the dots to what Biden did in Afghanistan and the weakness that's getting approving that pipeline for Germany and Russia and how all that led to this and how that didn't happen before . This is created , but it's created out of weakness .
Yeah , no , and that's very true , and I think the way just his overall approach , though , is one that to me just is not is not going to wear well , but I also realized I could be wrong on that , because I think we are in a different era , where certain approaches like his I mean , he's just , he's obnoxious and he was obnoxious the whole time- he would have
kicked crap out of you at a state convention .
Oh , there's no question .
He would have no , no , no , no . At a state convention . Everybody would have been carrying the vac out of the room , and then on election night , we'd have clocked him by 30 points , because he's a phony and so .
I think that's what it is . I think it's that he feels like a suit Right .
Well , and I do think , because he he is , and this maybe get to his age too in the fact that he's never run for anything at all before , which is which is okay . I'm not against that at all . It's just that I think when you look at a guy like that , he is a people pleaser . Everywhere he goes , he wants to say something and he wants the heads to not .
He wants that , and occasionally you need to be the person who makes everybody mad in the room and that gets to your point . On the 9 11 stuff . Right , he goes in and what do you don't realize this , and this is one of those things that I think is important to know .
Everybody thinks you're in danger when you go and give an interview to an unfriendly outlet . That's not necessarily true . Your big problem is when you go give an interview to who you think is your biggest supporter . They push you so much further than you are willing to go and you want to agree with them and you want to say , oh , absolutely . So .
He goes on the blaze and just says bunker stuff about 9 11 . And then all of a sudden , he gets himself in trouble . So when you're a candidate , you have to know sometimes you say no to the people who support you most because they get you in more trouble than the ones who don't .
Right , I agree with that . It'll be , but I think he's going to . He will probably see a spike in his fundraising and that's what's going to be interesting . What's interesting to me is all these candidates are going to be .
They all , and pretty much most of them , had their moments that they can , they can put into and , you know , clip it , send it to donors , put it on social media , try to raise money . It'll be interesting to see how the fundraising numbers go over the next couple , you know , the next couple of days and weeks .
So you think everybody on that stage tonight says I won this .
Oh , absolutely yeah . I mean I'm sure they'll all do that Other than Aisa .
Oh no , aisa is going to claim he won it too .
Okay , so I mean Ron , Ron DeSantis , right ?
Yeah .
I felt like his answer on Ukraine was you know , he did talk about the fact that we have to protect our own border and what he would do there and he came off really strong to me . I think I mean that was kind of my vibe . I mean obviously he's trying to split that .
I thought that was like one of his weakest .
I think he did a really good job in some of those answers .
Some of the border stuff All the stuff he gets hit on .
Oh , it's Florida , florida , florida . He connected it in a couple of good places when they talked about crime and he talked about the Soros prosecutors . I think he really stood out because all those guys are saying I do this , I do this and he's the only one who's done anything . And I thought that was a really good example . He did it on COVID too .
I thought he was his answer . We'll get to this , I'm sure , but his answer on the border , that's going to make news .
Yeah . So let's gonna make . Let's hit that as a matter of fact , ella , why don't we hit with with the Santas ? Let's go clip 10 .
We're not handling both and so I am going to declare it a national emergency .
I'm not going to send troops to Ukraine , but I am going to send them to our southern border . When these drug pushers are bringing fentanyl across the border , that's going to be the last thing they do . We're going to use force and we're going to leave them stone cold . Okay .
I am for a cold day . Well , I mean , and there was a there's a real question in there which is and this is where we'd like you to look around the corner a little bit the big question now is okay , where ? Where does US military involvement become an option ?
here , in .
A lot of people staked out different positions here .
Well , it is interesting because there's another question where they asked him would you send the special forces into Mexico ? And he said absolutely , yeah , that's news . I mean using them on the border . It gets in , like where I think it was pan . Or he said , talking to all what's intelligent . Well , that's true .
Like they can't actually they're not going to be engaging there they can absolutely help with because they can provide intelligence etc for the border patrol sending special forces to operate in Mexico , taking hits against it , directly against the cartels , treating them as a terrorist organization . He was asked that and he was unequivocal that .
He said yes , that's big news . Congressman Crenshaw has been talking up for a while .
Yeah he wants to do it .
Big fight back and forth between him and the Mexican president .
Yeah .
That's a big issue and I think he gained a lot on that . I think he looked really strong with his leadership .
Because didn't Pence just even still back up again tonight what Trump had said , which is we'll work with the Mexican government to help fight against the cartel ? Isn't that what I heard tonight ?
He may have I , but I will say You're not weaker . I feel like that's a weaker argument than what ?
Oh , absolutely it is .
And I do think right now it you mentioned that things change on the ground . This issue is one where I think five years ago , if you'd asked Americans , are we really going to spend , send special forces into into Mexico to deal with this issue ? The answer had been 7525 .
Now I think that number is going to flip because of the number of fentanyl deaths and what's happening with the border . I think there's going to be a whole reset on this and I think it's a good issue for Republicans who are willing to get out in front of it and it's the more , the more Americans learn what's going on on the border .
We've still had this media blackout , where the mainstream media does not talk about what's going on at the border . They show just those those one images of cartel guys with guns in Texas . That image was powerful . They use it in in in this debate .
When you start seeing what , like the Jalisco cartel , the kind of armament they have they shot down a Mexican helicopter , mexican military helicopter . When people start seeing what they're doing , I think , like you said , those numbers are going to flip .
They're going to see that as the campaign goes on , because the Republican nominee is going to make sure that's a big part of the campaign
¶ Republican Debate Political Analysis and Commentary
.
Are you pitching me right now to take Mark back down to the border once again , jay , we get better views .
We do we do , we do know , and , but it's . But the thing is about this issue too . It's not an issue where where the Democrats are solid and then you're going outside . The Democrats are very vulnerable on the border and they're very vulnerable on the drug trade . So the fact that those two issues mesh like that . It's smart for DeSantis to do this .
I just think , in contrast to Vivec , where you go , look at the stuff he says long term and it hurts him this one will gain traction for DeSantis Go back and we always talked about this politics .
No one looks back at game film and previous things . Think about what Trump what propelled his campaign , some of the things he said that the media went crazy about , and it was about the border that propelled his campaign . Desantis saying cold stone dead and talking about sending special forces in there .
The left media is going to go absolutely nuts about that and that's going to help him tremendously . That's with the Republican primary . He wants that fight and I can't imagine they're waiting for the view or someone to go pop off and attack him and they're going to use that .
Oh they will . For sure It'll come back to haunt him on the left .
But yeah , who cares ? Yeah , we don't care . It's a good issue .
I mean OK . So Tim Scott , I know he's on our list necessarily right this second , but I'm just trying to get a little bit of take on , you know , because Tim Scott's kind of been this kind of quiet , very nice , straight shooting kind of guy . I thought he stood out , he came off very calm , to me especially right out of the ship .
Very .
Yeah , maybe he might have needed a Red Bull , so maybe a monster . Maybe his team could get a monster , a Red Bull . We might know people that could hand him one of those . But I thought , though , he was still really clear on education on the border . He was still strong on the border because of the drugs coming up and he talked about that .
I felt like he came off very clear . He also talked about his faith . He quoted scripture . Yeah , what are your thoughts on him ?
I think he came . He wrote he drove in the right lane the whole time right and it is in the back . When blowing by him Now , the back may miss the exit and pile into a , you know , into the divider but he's going and occasionally people go in the left lane and go blowing by him . I think he stayed .
He went 55 down the interstate a little slow for my taste , but I do think he had a couple good answers , and one was the DOJ answer I thought he had . I thought he did a good job with that .
So it's it's clip 12 , ella , and what we'll do is we'll go to Tim Scott on that , and he talked a little bit about the necessity and making sure that the DOJ is not an arm that that's punitive against your , your political opponents .
When I'm president , the first thing I'll do is fire Merrick Garland . Second thing I'll do fire Christopher Ray , because we need Lady Justice to wear a blindfold . Without that , no one has confidence in our justice system . 17% of Republicans have confidence in our Department of Justice .
Here's why we keep seeing not only the weaponization of the Department of Justice against political opponents , but also against parents who show up at school board meetings . They're called under this deal , jay . They're called domestic terrorists . When I'm president , the first . So I thought that was a good answer .
No , I thought he did well . I mean , here's the thing If there's those listening and watching , stop letting people talk to you about the national polls and who's rising , who's falling . Look at the Iowa polling . Just go to real clear politics . Look at Iowa . Look at New Hampshire . Scott's doing really well in Iowa . He's in third . He's at almost 10% .
He's right behind DeSantis . So I think what they had that's his first time in a big debate like this they had a pitcher . They're confident he could get that fastball across . They didn't want to try to throw anything else and so I think he was careful with what he was doing and remember they have money too .
so they have plenty of money , so he's doing well in Iowa at one point , yeah .
And so they did . And in talking to some people with their campaign , they did not feel like they had to go in and try to hit a home run . That was never the approach for Tim Scott .
What else did Jeff tell ?
you , and so I know other people within the campaign , I think so , anyway , go ahead .
No , I was just wondering , like if he , you know , I think he did take a safer approach . Yeah , he's a pretty safe guy , but is there anything memorable ? And that's what I think . We'll have to wait and see and that's kind of what you know . Maybe he'll come out a little bit more guns ablaze , and at the next one I'm hoping .
Well , he's going to have to have his moment , and it doesn't necessarily have to be on the debates , right ?
And also remember you're talking about eight people on a stage here . It's incredibly difficult and when you try to make an impression with eight people , you turn into the VEC . You turn into , like you know , you buy your 14th drink and then you're just like , oh , you know what I mean . Like you know , you had it under control eight drinks in , but 14 in .
It's a complete disaster . So I think some of this will be weeded out because you know , I think Bergam's going to be gone and I think , Aisa Hutchinson will be gone . I think Pence won't be long for this race .
So I think once you get down to four or five , then Tim Scott's going to have a chance to retire Pence is Iowa bust I mean we saw most of these .
Yeah , but he has to do well in Iowa and it just reminded me that his whole really hard pitch social conservative on that abortion question was he's really trying hard to win that social conservative vote , which is incredible , which is sizable , obviously , in Iowa .
It reminded me of McCain versus Bush debate where McCain it was in Iowa and McCain attacked subsidies , farm subsidies , and I remembered it Everyone like they're going crazy and booing and thought it was incredibly unpopular . He was talking to New Hampshire , so , and he came back in one New Hampshire .
So , like these , all these candidates are picking out their lanes and there's a broader strategy generally to what's going on . Yeah .
Well , speaking of , can we jump into this abortion answer .
Yeah .
Because I really thought Nikki Haley did a great job at answering this question in a way and I know Jay is going to disagree with me on this one , but he , she , answered this question the way I wanted Mark to answer this question , because she explained the process and what your you know , what can a president do , what can a governor do , and which was our
case , but she laid it out , she laid out the actual truth of the case .
Okay , hold on , you want to listen to it ? Sure .
Yeah , we got her answer so let's listen to it , and then we'll talk about it .
Thank you , martha .
¶ Discussion on Abortion and Political Strategy
I am unapologetically pro-life , not because the Republican Party tells me to be , but because my husband was adopted and I had trouble having both of my children , so I'm surrounded by blessings . Having said that , we need to stop demonizing this issue .
This is talking about the fact that unelected justices didn't need to decide something this personal , because it's personal for every woman and man . Now it's been put in the hands of the people . That's great . When it comes to a federal ban , let's be honest with the American people and say it will take 60 Senate votes , it will take a majority of the House .
So in order to do that , let's find consensus . Can't we all agree that we should ban late term abortions ? Can't we all agree that we should encourage adoptions ? Can't we all agree that doctors and nurses who don't believe in abortions shouldn't have to perform them ? Can't we all agree that contraception should be available ?
And can't we all agree that we are not going to put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty if she gets an abortion ? Let's treat this like a respectful issue that it is , and humanize the situation and stop demonizing the situation .
I mean , I think she nailed that and I know you guys said there's no way anybody can get that many messages out .
But she's at the federal level , so it's a lot easier . But oh , that's you know . Basically , what she's saying is we're never going to do that . The question was should there be a federal ban ? And she was saying no , you'll never get 60 senators , so it's better to leave the states . Mark's case . Like you are the states , Right , Right .
But he still would need the legislature to vote in favor of a ban , which we all know that would not have a ban , Not even a ban .
You wouldn't even the ban's , not even out there . Even if you were to get try to go to 15 weeks , which the majority of the state supports , they wouldn't touch it Right .
And she did a good job . I'm just going to say this I think she did a great job of explaining that breakdown and , even though it's not going to really come back to the federal issue , I don't think at all .
I think what she was trying to say there is this isn't just a president's call on this , and to change this law it would take a , you know , an crazy act of I don't know what . So why don't we focus on at least eliminating late term abortion ? She had it .
You know what I mean , and I think that that's appealing to people , because I think the majority of the country are against late term abortion .
I think it has a lot of appeal , a lot of Republicans who are tired of this issue being bandied about , and that's where I think those donors that I think keeping her campaign like , they're going to see that and say , okay , I can agree with that . I think that's going to help her .
I think that the problem Republicans are going to have is there's some answers in the Democrats are going to absolutely love , because it was no longer . No , we can't , the federal government needs to decide it . So they're putting it square in the lap of this presidential race . And you look at Ohio , you look at Kansas , you look at Kentucky .
This has not been like a good battleground for us .
No lost everyone .
And I promise you , and forever , it's over . No , we're , we're pre-spin , Like we were right after the debate . Right ? You don't know what anyone's talking about ? I'm certain that Democrats have already putting out stuff on on abortion . No question .
Yeah , they , they want it to be and that's their . They want it to be a big issue . But also remember she she also is going to take flack from the right for that answer no question . But , she's going to take it hard for her . Her statement at the beginning , unelected judges making decisions for women .
And now the reason I say about Nikki is that she can do that , she can make that , she can make that case . I think she's going to take some shots for it .
Well , she may take some shots for it , but here's- .
Which is I'm not saying she , she should back down , just you know .
But you still have to appeal , and I know , I get it . I get that this is the primary and that's all that they should be caring about right now , but I I just think at some point we do have to have a real conversation about this . And it's going to be very tough to do . I get that .
I get that the far right is going to be like no , no , no , no , no . But if we don't start to at least eliminate this being all we can talk about on the Democratic side , right Cause you just said it , this is their ammo , this is , they're going to come at it again . And I just think we need to start coming back with a real conversation about this .
And I feel like tonight she laid down some actual facts . Yes , the far right might not appreciate what she said tonight , but when they sit back and actually look at it , what she said , everything that she actually said , was true .
So I think what I think what there's going to definitely have appeal for that , and I think that's what we talked about at the beginning , about that really helping her campaign . But I also think there's a big group of the Republican base that for them , this issue is really important .
Yeah , and it's not just political and they don't want to look at it like political strategy . Oh , we should be careful . They're like no , we should fight , it's , it's it's about moral issues .
It's a moral issue .
And we should fight . And they hear leaders . Someone hit her right after that and said finding consensus isn't leadership . You got to go fight , you got to lead . There's going to be voters who are going to say that's right , I want someone to champion that issue , not find consensus . And they get .
That makes that makes Republican primary voters nervous on any issue . Let's go find consensus on guns . Let's go find consensus on this . Let's go find consensus on comprehensive border or immigration reform and you're dead .
I mean and so like , because voters and here's the other thing you talk , we talk about and we can sit here and go through , like the electability problems , the candidates and on these issues , If you ask voters who they're voting for and then you ask them who has the best chance to beat Biden , they're all going to say the candidate they're voting for has the
best chance .
Yeah you're right .
It's just their belief . Yeah , you're right . That's why they're voting for him . So so , okay , big , I will get onto some more fun clips
¶ Discussion on Republican Presidential Candidates
. But who do you think was an absolute bomb ? Besides Asa ? He's a given right . But I'm kind of bummed about Burgum because I broke a stick .
I mean because it shows up there , he's got like why are you playing basketball , Jay ?
give me a break , Jay , you can play basketball .
You think the guy would be out there doing that ?
No , I'm going to throw Governor Martinez under the bus here , because when she went to give the like primetime speech at the RNC convention , she decided to eat , like , I think , something she was allergic to that day and was like swollen up kind of like Benadryl . Like that morning before we she had to go do that debate .
So like next to her doing that , him playing basketball on that day before I'm not , he did , yeah , you know . By the way , Suzani did a great job .
Oh , yeah , killed it , absolutely killed it up there .
Okay , so she did .
She was kind of somebody can play hurt and it's Suzana . I don't know about Doug .
Yeah , I mean , I don't know that Doug did and kind of just disappointed because I thought he was going to have a bit more of a force . It's hard . I've been hearing about him and I've been kind of excited just to see what he had to offer , because he's a very strong conservative and he's a strong guy and he's done a really good job up in North Dakota .
So I was just hoping he could deliver more .
But I realized you know , delivering in a debate situation is tough , yeah , but he has zero business on that stage . I mean at the end of the day , like you have to have a rationale for the campaign . And I know there's a Republican governor not Suzana another Republican governor who , when he called him and said why are you running ?
Yeah , you know , and when , like someone of your friends is asking you , that , like that's kind of a big red flag .
Yeah , right . And also , yeah , you're like well , we did it in North Dakota . Okay , okay , okay , I'm sure that was hard getting that through .
Well , I get it , I understand , but okay . So let's go back really fast to Nikki Haley , because I know we're talking a little bit about her , but I have your Nikki Haley bumper yeah .
Honestly you're doing , you're all in on the Nikki .
Nikki Haley endorsed you .
I know I'm a fan , don't get me wrong .
She gets points right off the bat for me .
I agree that she did that Now .
I have to say her little cheesy start you know about when you want something , talked about hire a guy . Or if you want something done , hire a woman or something . I can't remember what that is .
Yeah .
Is that right , my ?
close , yeah , yeah .
I just think as a woman I kind of feel like that's it's , that's cliche , it's been said a lot . I would rather have used her to use some other line there a little bit more punch .
But her line of the night to me was and I actually kind of I tried to write this down so I didn't mess it up but she said strong girls become strong women who become strong leaders , and this was . And then she wrapped it up by saying biological men do not have any business playing in female sports .
But I just felt like she came off really competent tonight . I hadn't heard her this strong personally . And the second she said that our two girls , our two teenage girls , jumped up , got very excited and instantly wanted to go and buy Nikki Haley Buttons .
Yeah , well , I think , I even think that first line , as well as this cliche of this , the timing of it , when she delivered that first line they were all looking like politicians .
Yeah , and just bickering yeah .
And I thought the timing of that line was really good .
Which is important because she had that line in her pocket and could have used it a bunch of different times and chose the right time to pick it out , which she deserves credit for , and I think what you're saying not only will it appeal to the vote , it goes back to the donor class that are really .
They want an adult in the room .
Right , and they looked at her and she does see it yeah .
And they're like okay , and the Ukraine stuff , the way she handled that yeah .
And .
I could check those boxes and for her campaign to be able to make the case to voters , they got to stay alive . Yeah , they got they're going to have to keep the donors .
I think that the adults in the room tonight in my opinion were Nikki Haley , tim Scott and I do think Rhonda Santas came off like an adult , I thought .
Rhonda Santas did a really good job . I think he started off a little nervous . Nervous , but I thought he did better than I actually expected .
Yeah , and I thought he did a really good job and I got to say and I as much as I'm a personal fan of Chris Christie I think he did not have a good night . No , I love Chris .
Christie . But to me he's like that . He's like that's the lefty pitcher that's there to get the left-handed batter out . Like he's there if Trump's on stage .
Yeah .
And it just wasn't .
You know , yeah , and he had a couple of lines of the vet , but it was still just and he started to wander . And when he starts making his case , his case wasn't particularly cogent , tight or compelling .
And so when you look at those three , you kind of say you should have been more buttoned up on the answers of why you're in the race , and that's part of the the issue .
Okay , but wait let me interrupt you on that one , because you came upstairs to get ready for the show and you didn't listen to his wrap up His the last question they asked him , which you would have appreciated . This one they asked him okay , with all this testimony coming out in Congress about UFOs ?
And he interrupts her and says are you seriously going to ask me a UFO question ? I'm the one that's getting the UFO question . And she said let me just get this through . Do you feel if you were president , that you would tell you would release the files of all the UFO findings and tell the American public ?
And his answer was the job of the president is to tell the truth to the people , and when you are the president , I don't care what it is that you're discussing . Your job is to be truthful and lead this country and be honest with people , whether it's UFOs or something more important than that .
And he added more to that about the education and everything else and that that was a bigger threat for us than any UFO . I thought he answered it strongly . I think that that's the quote . I think they'll pull out from him along with the GPT .
Yeah , that's the only one he's getting is GPT , and it's came two hours in , by the way .
You're done , oh okay , well , I disagree . I think that was a good okay . Okay , all right .
Good choice . It's what he's doing in New Hampshire . He's trying to revive that . Chris Christie , straight talk . Yeah , I'll tell it like it is . I'll tell the truth and that's what killed him last time , because then Trump came along and like Right .
You're not beating him on that Right , right , you're not gonna beat Trump on being direct . Right , right , yeah , and so he was a little disappointing and so I think we do have .
I think there will be some shedding to some degree , but Christie's obviously gonna be in it for a while because of his approach and he's put everything into New Hampshire , yeah he's working , he's not even going to Iowa , right . Yeah , no , no , he's not put .
yeah , he's interesting because the abortion stuff he just didn't say anything .
Yeah , I know he took the pass . Yeah , yeah .
He's laser focused . He's doing decent in New Hampshire and I'd try to encourage everyone to look at the state by state poll .
Yeah , and , by the way , one other thing on the before we get to , we'll wrap with a kind of a broader discussion of where the race is , before we wrap things up here . But one other thing to think about Iowa is not . Hey , we all show up , cast a ballot and we have a winner . So there's a difference .
And when you have a caucus , second place matters , and so there's some of this too , that you have to pay attention to some of what happens within the mechanics of a caucus . Right , Right .
I mean you have to have a real ground game on that , like it's within counties and within all these caucus sites . Like that's not an easy . That's why you look at like the social conservative movement is so strong , because , like I was talking about those voters who believe these issues are really important , that it's a moral issue and we're fighting for life .
They're going to show up . They're absolutely going to show up , but they will go there . Whether it's snowing , it doesn't matter .
They will stay there for hours Because it's not just go cast your vote , like you're staying there for a while in these caucus sites and that's why the most committed are going to vote and organizing them , getting those voters out , is a real important part of a ground game for a campaign .
Well , I mean , I know I get that this is going to be a dumb question , but like , why Iowa ? Like , why did we all decide , hey , iowa's going to be the place that everybody needs to care about for 18 months ?
Well , if you're Iowa , you that's poll position , I mean that's yeah , that's big time . Think about how much attention Iowa gets and think about how much you know , the corn industry you know , and the ethanol industry appreciates the fact that they drill in the importance of ethanol to every politician ever walks in there .
Now the one thing people don't think about is when your primary is in January . You have the longest general election they ever lived , I mean literally it's like nine months long .
Well , I think it's really hurt New Mexico , frankly , that we're a longer swing state . Yeah . You're seeing a lot of these cuts You're seeing we lost some of cannon to Arizona .
Yeah .
And I think that wouldn't happen back in the day .
No , that's right , that's right . And you know , when you don't have the federal influence too , that's exactly right . Right , and yeah , no , we definitely are .
Okay . So I'm sorry guys , I feel like I'm , if you're gonna , just I don't need a big long discussion . Who won in your mind tonight ? Who did what they needed to get done ? Who came in first ?
I think a lot of people did what they needed to do , like I think DeSantis did . I think DeSantis really did a good job . I think Ramaswamy is going to have a huge night .
I think he's going to have a lot of followers on his campaign , like he's going to fuel stuff and just like the Ukraine answer is the perfect example to me , because what Nikki Haley said like I would have been up applauding , like as a Reagan Republican , you know Wolverines like I'm with her on that .
And , but I guarantee he was the only one who said he wouldn't support more funding for Ukraine and there's a big chunk of the Republican primary elected . The Republican electorate total , but the primary electorate especially . That's going to agree with him on that , and he's the only one who took that position ?
Yeah , I agree , I think , DeSantis Haley . And then I begrudgingly agree about Vivek , even though I think eventually , you know , I think he'll be exposed as a complete and total phony . I do think you're right . He did what he had to do .
He did what he had to do and they didn't hit him on things that would just be like and they will , delostating , they'll tune him up eventually .
Well , he got booed when he said what was this crazy one that he said he's like about climate changes , of hoax ?
Well , yeah , I mean , it's just that . But that , like in general , is just a dumb , like it's just a reflexive , stupid comment that he makes with his buddies you know , having a beer which is just it shows a lack of discipline on his part and just not giving any sort of offence .
I agree with that and that's where I was . Where he was , there was a point where he was talking and it was like they would have just shut up and let him keep going . He would have gone off the cliff He'll do it , that's right . He'll do it again .
He'll do it again . Like guys like that are the smartest guy in the room , and so he likes the sound of his own voice . Plus , anybody who shows up takes their shirt off and starts hitting tennis balls . You're an idiot , like I'm sorry .
Like put your shirt on , or if you're gonna , we do have a pickleball ad .
We just want to go Seriously .
Look , if you're going to do that , at least when you take the shirt off you're like whoa , but Vec , you are bringing the Vec's like wait a minute , you gotta be bigger than Putin , exactly yeah . And Putin walks out , you're like , okay , I'm Putin man . No , but it's ridiculous .
He's like he really is , Like he has some clown in him which bugs me , Like , and I think cause he's very smart . I don't think he's not smart . I think he's very well spoken , he's very accomplished , but I also think he's a bit of a clown .
Well , and I think again , it is just what it is . It is just youth and youth , the millennials . He's 39 . Okay , but still the millennials .
At least rounded .
I will say this though devil's devil's advocate . Yeah , that is to believe . They said the exact same thing about Donald Trump during that debate . Oh , he can't say this , he's going to be dead after he does this . Now it's different , but his supporters will say you know , he's proving himself to be the outsider .
I think the thing that was still , though , is he was impulsive , and he says whatever is like , is the thought that comes in his head right ? That's what affected tonight , and I feel like that is that generation . They put everything out on social media Two things you guys do not do at all , you know , and it's like I just think he's not .
He's the guy , and I guess Donald Trump doesn't think a whole lot before he puts things on social media either , but I just think , in general , he's impulsive , and I think I got the vibe from him , and I would not trust him to make strong leadership decisions , especially in a crisis .
Well , and I think that's what will make people nervous about him and when they hear about some of the positions he's taken in the past and some of the things he said like the 9-11 stuff to me disqualifying , Right . And they didn't want to hit him on that .
Yeah , no , and they will eventually
¶ Trump Opponents and Strategies Analysis
. One other thing I think is kind of interesting if we could do well one last clip before we do a quick wrap up here . Ella , let's go to clip nine .
I do think , given all the talking that's starting to emerge again about potential mass mandates returning and probably an additional push for vaccination , I think , going after the way COVID was handled , I think if there's an area where President Trump could have some issues from his opponents , I think they could draw blood here , and you started to see it tonight
with Governor DeSantis . So here's one more quick clip on that .
Down . We kept our state free and open , and I can tell you this as your president , I will never let the deep state bureaucrats lock you down . You don't take somebody like Fauci and coddle him . You bring Fauci in , you sit him down and you say , anthony , you are fired .
Which is interesting because that's a Trump line right but .
I just think that it was brilliant .
I've wanted somebody to say that for months , so I liked that . Let me ask you this , though , on this clip especially did you guys expect these guys to take out Trump more than we saw tonight ?
I thought they might go after him .
I didn't know if Christie would . I kind of thought Christie would , but it's difficult , I mean , and that's why that's kind of the undercard , that's why they're fighting for second place , because at the end of the day , like , if you can't make an argument that you're better candidate than the one ahead of you , he's the quasi incumbent .
If you can't convince them to fire him , then they're not gonna , you know . And so that's where they are . They know voters like him Republican primary voters and they just they're trying to do this dance and it's just really ineffective .
So how long can Trump hold out and not go before it hurts him , or does it ever ? I ?
don't know that it ever will Like he's gonna . Now there's a big point Like you're , you're , he has to think . Like you're also laying setting precedent for Biden not to do any debates either , that's right . And that's really bad for Republicans and would be bad for Trump .
I just think they have to get closer to him and right now , like no one's there , and even now , like you're talking about , who did Haley DeSantis Ramaswamy , like that's what he wants .
That's right , that's what he wants . He's got more than one .
You're race at a much smaller level , where it's like , as long as those guys are fighting amongst themselves and no one's coalescing like we're fine , we're fine , yeah .
I just think that somebody I thought somebody should come out swinging against Trump tonight , only so they made themselves stand out more , because at this point , like it is exactly what you said , it's a 30 point lead for him right now .
So if I'm in the race , I'm like listen , let's , it's go time , and this is my only shot is to be the anti-Trump candidate and I'm , I'm going , I'm going after him , I'm gonna talk about his electability and I'm I'm just going to talk about this . The country is sick of this , or whatever . Whatever they wanted to say .
I was surprised that somebody didn't come out full swinging .
Well , that I thought was interesting and Christie's really smart he's , he was a very good governor . He was , he's a very astute politician and he's used that line about suspending the constitution twice and they've clearly tested that .
They've clearly tested that Cause he went back to it twice , and so they've tested that line and that clearly react Republican primary voters react to it .
Okay , so let's wrap up with what do you think over the next few weeks ? If you're going to , let's just say who . Let's just assume Trump is where Trump is . Who would you want to be going into the next month here ?
I just want to be DeSantis . I still you got it . These guys have to get , even to Iowa . They have to , you know , raise enough money to get to Iowa . I think DeSantis did what he needed to do to keep money in his campaign . He's got to turn the corner , though . Yeah , like he's got to turn the corner .
Okay , wait , I mean , I think . I think we're going to see Nikki Haley start to climb , that's a joke . I do and I like , I like DeSantis , but I think Nikki Haley is going to come out swinging . I don't know if that means that puts her in a position for VP or not .
I'm not really sure , but I do think that she came out a lot stronger than I anticipated tonight , so no , she's she's good on the stage . Yeah .
There's no doubt . Okay , well , that's the wrap up . What ? Oh no , I no , I agree , I'd rather be DeSantis , cause I think ultimately , desantis can fall back on . I've done it in so many of these different areas and COVID , I think it's going to be the biggest one , I think it's going to be a big issue and I think DeSantis that he is absolutely .
He has a better record on COVID than Trump does . So if there's going to be an area where he can start to chip things away , cause Trump still has not come out on the vaccine . Trump still pushes the vaccine pretty hard . And if cause he had , you know it was developed in his administration .
You can see why he does it , but but it doesn't look as good as it did when he when he developed it . And so eventually , I think DeSantis , if there's going to be a wormhole there that could turn into something more , that's where it's going to be .
And so if I were , if I were anybody , I'd agree It'd be DeSantis , and I still think Tim Scott's got a got a chance to be effective in in Nikki as well . So , all right , guys , thanks very much . Thanks for doing this . It's late .
I got to now put the show together so that when people wake up in the morning , they can actually listen to this and so thanks , thanks , jay , you're showing up last night .
Yeah , thanks for showing up last night . Well geez my gosh .
That's fantastic , Jay .
It's really this is great . We'll bring you back after the next one . Yeah , when is the next one ? This is September , september 27th I think , is it Okay ?
I think so . Yeah , we'll do that then , but thanks for joining us and we'll see you back here on Monday .
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