Episode 49: Politics From The Pulpit with Pastor Vince Torres

we're doing . That's right , yeah .

But while I was out East at Liberty University , I met my beautiful wife . She is an ocean fish , you know . She's from Rhode Island , and after we got engaged I brought her back to the desert , you know , and this is where we decided to raise our family .

So we live in Santa Fe now , so blessed to be there , and we made a decision right before my son was born , and he just turned seven , that if we were going to stay in New Mexico , if we were going to raise our family , we we were not happy with where things were , we were not happy with the status quo , and so we asked ourselves what are some areas that

we feel God has guided and led us to to make a difference ? One was obviously the church . So we're both very involved with our church . I've been happy to be pastoring there now for several years Another area that I was always extremely passionate about was politics and civic engagement , so that was another area that we thought we can do something there .

And then the third area is our kids begin age . Where it was , it was education , and so we actually started a Christian school in Santa Fe two years ago where our kids go . My wife now teaches there . She's the principal . So we just decided , if we're going to be here , let's try to make a difference .

Let's see what the Lord does , and he's doing some incredible things and we're very thankful for it . Wow , you're doing a lot . Yeah , I feel like we're sitting still and we're not doing anything next event .

So we homeschooled for a while , but we never saw ourselves as as homeschool parents . That wasn't our plan . But , more importantly , we realized that while we can homeschool , we had other families in our church and our community that it just wasn't an option for them and we didn't have a good , solid Christian , evangelical Christian school in Santa Fe .

And so we begin to pray and just take some steps of faith and we determine Lord , as long as you keep opening doors , we're going to keep walking . And so something that started about four years ago with three families eventually materialized . The Lord opened up some opportunities and we started school last year .

We started with kindergarten through fourth grade , added fifth grade this year . So we're a private Christian school . We depend entirely on the tuition that our families pay and , you know , grants and other fundraising efforts that we do , and all I can say is it's been incredible to see how God has provided for this school because on paper it doesn't make sense .

I mean , financially we should not be able to make it . We don't take any public money , we have no public dollars , so it's all privately supported . And the church community of Santa Fe really , really rallied against us .

We're not against us , rallied for us , for you , and we're just so thrilled to have the support of the greater Christian community in Santa Fe .

There was lots of other issues I was having with public school systems on what they were teaching , but we were fortunate enough to find a small Christian based school that did part homeschooling and part in in person and you know Mark's running at the time for the Senate position .

I'd never homeschooled before , so I you know what was that experience like for you , because I remember , like our school teaches Latin . I was struggling . I don't know Latin , I never even read anything .

Yeah , and so we did it and it was incredible and it was a fantastic experience . But one of the things that we did really want for our kids was that social component and again we wanted other kids to be able to benefit from Christian education .

So all the credit on how well my kids are doing and the transition they made between public school into homeschool , then back into private school , is fully hers and she's just absolutely incredible .

So let's talk about other . You know you did you always want to be a pastor ? Like was that kind of your mission going when you went to college ?

The two pastors who actually started our church , pastor Rudy Delgado and Pastor Carlos Montoya Actually we're going to be coming up on 20 years in 2024 , january 2024 . So it's a big deal for us . But they started just kind of getting me involved in other ministries and eventually started elevating me to positions .

It was kind of their intent all along that I would be a pastor , but they knew if they presented it that way , I was going to totally turn it , turn it down , because I never , never saw that . And so my wife and I , when it first happened even at the time , you know , we didn't know what we were doing . We really didn't know what we were doing .

But it was amazing to see how the Lord suddenly just gave me this deeper heart for the people of our church , for his church in general , and it was something that took place that was completely unexpected . But to answer your question .

No , that that wasn't my plan , that was completely God's plan and thankfully , through all of this through me working now for the Senate and starting the school I've had the support of my bosses and my leaders in those other positions to continue to serve as a pastor and I'm very thankful for the opportunities that they allow me to have .

How does that work ? When you walk off stage , you're like I don't feel , like a hadith saying . Then it turns out you did right , so explain , take us inside your head for people who don't do this and always wanna know God . What does God want me to do here ? And how does that feel when you feel like he is working through ?

She'll say dad , do you still get nervous when you preach ? And I said every single time . And I said Brooklyn , the day that I step behind that pulpit and I open the word of God and I'm not nervous , that's the day that I'm afraid of , that's the day when I need to step down because , to your point , it's a completely , completely different experience .

And yes , I've had moments where I've gone up there and I've preached what God has put on my heart and walked away from that pulpit thinking that is the worst message I have ever heard and I gave it . You know that is just awful . And then you step down and people are coming forward and they're saying thank you , the Lord used you . I need to know Jesus .

And you're leading people to Christ , you know , through a mediocre at best teaching , through the book of Exodus , and you're like Lord , how are you making that happen ? And suddenly it's in those moments that you really get that encouragement from the Lord that it's not you , it's me . I'm the messenger here .

You know You're being a faithful product , you're being a faithful tool , but in the end , it's my power , the power of my word , to save people . And so , yeah , and then , on the other hand , you have some messages where you step off the stage and you're like I really felt like that one . Well , I hit that one out the park , you know .

And then I talked to my wife and she said that's your best .

What are you seeing ?

You know , and you see that in scripture , I think that church became a comfortable spot for lots of well-intended folks who enjoyed the community , who enjoyed the sense of family that it brought to them , and during COVID , for whatever reason , it became apparent that maybe they didn't need that . And it's not to say that we don't want those folks to come back .

I am always encouraging people who have been , you know , gone from blaze for a few years like , come on back , it's time to get back to fellowship . But I think in that regard it's done something really unique for us , and that's it allowed us to see that you know what ? There's some people who are in church who are not Christians .

So how do we make sure that we're effectively ministering to them and not just building a ministry that's mass and number but isn't necessarily healthy ? And so I can tell you , blaze got smaller during the pandemic , but blaze got healthier during the pandemic as well .

And so I think that if you talk to other pastors they would probably agree with that that even through some of the numbers that we've seen declining , the health of the church is incredibly strong and , to your point , I am seeing a lot of young people .

In fact , we had a mutual friend of ours , pastor Steve Stucker was our guest preacher at blaze on Sunday and Steve was remarking just how impressed he was by the youth of our church .

I mean , we had several of our youth who came and sat in the very front row to hear them and one of the things that Steve and I talked about was and we're not attracting them with , you know , a bunch of smoke or lights or anything- like that not that there's anything wrong with having a great production , but at blaze we open up the Bible and we preach

from the Bible , and so that's what we win them with , and the good news is , that's what we're also keeping them with . And they're learning that churches about God's word . It's not about everything else , although there are other benefits to it . It's really about learning the word of God . So our church is doing extremely well .

I know in talking to Pastor Skip and other pastors here in the Albuquerque area they would agree that we're in a great position right now .

We're called to do it , first of all , and then second of all , I just think there is an energy I don't know how to say this . It's like I feel like kind of like a shield of protection .

I don't know if that's really true or not , but I feel like when we go as a family and give , if we can't carve out an hour of our time for God once a week , that's pretty sad in my opinion . Just , it's about him and not about what we're getting out of that service .

But I feel like God rewards us and gives us little gifts in those services , whether it's a word from the pastors or a cool song that really spoke to our heart or something like that . So I'm for one , I love having people back in a church .

For example , mark is not into the worship music , so he times us to arrive at service just as the last song is playing and we sit in the very back , by the way .

We have good , I have good friends that actually sing in worship bands at other churches and they're totally mocking him .

But with your Catholic upbringing it's kind of a confessional time even though it came through your wife and not you . Well , it's worth it .

about you . Guys are kind of hitting on it , and that is the fact is , I feel like , and I think we feel like as a whole in our lifetime I'm not sure I felt like Satan is making more progress than he is right now . Do you feel that same thing ? Where do you think we are right now as a state , in a country , as far as how we're being attacked ?

And so , as we were having a little conversation before we started , our enemy can only do so much as God allows him to do , and we know from the very beginning , going all the way back to Genesis , chapter one , satan has been trying to distract God's people , he's been trying to destroy them , he's been trying to do away with the perfect creation that God has

established for us , and so he's never let his guard down . I mean , let's not forget , he was very much at work in the crucifixion of our Lord and Savior , jesus Christ , and so Satan hasn't let up . Has he increased ?

I think we're looking around and we're realizing , man , it seems like things couldn't possibly be any worse , and my perspective is that they are and they will be . If you know the ending . Things get significantly worse before they get better .

But I think one of the silver linings that I've seen to some of the things that are happening more recently is we're starting to see the spiritual battle that undergirds so many of the things that we fight about .

So for many years we've dismissed things as political banter or political debates , that's a Republican versus a Democrat thing , a left versus right , and I feel like we're finally finding ourselves now where people , even people who are not necessarily of faith , are saying I don't feel like this is left or right , or Republican or Democrat or us them .

This really feels like good versus evil .

And I feel like that is what is being significantly more felt now , certainly in my lifetime , than ever before , and while that's a difficult thing to experience again , the silver lining is it's finally bringing the truth to the surface , which I feel like is something that has been significantly lost in this generation , and I know with my younger people in my church

. One of the things I so appreciate about our youth is they don't want things sugar-coated . They're like give it to me straight .

I may not even agree with you right off the bat , but don't try to dance around it like , tell me what is the truth and then let me go figure it out , let me throw it up against God's word and see if that's right , let me process things .

And I feel like that's a generation that is doing an incredible , an incredible service to us , as some of the older folks and those especially who are involved in politics that feel like we need to filter and sugar-coat everything , to hear young people saying yeah , set all that aside just give it to me straight .

I remind folks that the first government that God created wasn't the secular government , it was the family , you know , and we see three God-ordained institutions in Scripture we see the family , we see the church and we see the government . But the first government that he created was in a garden . It was Adam and Eve .

That was the first government , and Satan has been attacking that government ever since the very , very beginning . And so that's why we see these unfortunate statistics that you know . Divorce within the church is just as bad as divorce Outside the church .

We see broken families in the church , just like we see out of the church , and that is all very , very intentional , because if God can break down the family , he can start to break down , at least in the minds of folks , the connection that we have with God .

Think about the New Testament and the writers of the New Testament , of all the illustrations they could have given us to give us a picture of what our relationship with Christ looks like in his relationships with his church .

It's a marriage , and so if Satan can attack the marriage and attack the covenant of marriage , perhaps in the mind of people , he can start then to attack that covenant that God has established with his people .

If we can't be faithful husbands , if we can't be faithful wives , maybe he's not faithful , maybe we're not faithful and maybe there's a divorce in this relationship that we have with him , rather than know . We serve a God who is eternally faithful . Even when we are faithless , he remains faithful . So I think it's the family .

We had heard our pastor actually said something along the lines of um , while Christian couples can split up just as easily as secular couples , couples who regularly pray together as a couple sustain , you know , they usually either make it through their troubling times or they , they , they don't get divorced .

And so you know , mark and I really have taken kind of that approach with our marriage is because you know it's stressful , especially , you know , political campaigns and raising kids and finances , whatever it is . Change is hard and I think the power of prayer over a couple , god really speaks to us individually and then he speaks to us .

You know , in kind of what our roles are as husband and wife .

You know , and sometimes I think one of the things that we forget is that God puts all these other amazing boundaries in our lives to keep us faithful . But ultimately the scripture talks about , you know , everything that we should do actually come out of our love and adoration and worship for him . Sometimes that's insufficient .

If we're honest , that's not enough , and so God then gives us children , he gives us spouses and then , when those people let us down or they're not necessarily standing up , he gives us other boundaries , but the most obvious one is if you love me , you will keep my commandments , and I've heard from so many couples that I've counseled that have come and sat

across from me in my office and said that's the only reason we're here . If you love me , you will keep my commandments . That's it , because this is not working . But we love him and we want to keep his commandments .

I think too many people within churches all across the Christian spectrum gave this kind of sugary substance of sorts , this faith sugar which made people believe that if they ate the sugar everything would be okay .

And the reality of the situation is faith in God oftentimes is a roadmap through very difficult times and it's never promised any differently from Genesis all the way to Revelations . So how important is that , especially with Gen Z , where I think they're very different than Millennials ? I think we're starting to see that and even in our generation it's different .

How important is it to have a realistic look at who God is and what the relationship God wants to have with you ?

You may leave the church and be yelling at your family on the way home and realize that didn't work out so well . But unfortunately , I think that that's the message that we've largely perpetuated to some degree Is that just follow Christ , say these words , walk this aisle , say this prayer and things are going to fall in place .

And the reality is is the truth is no . Things may again get much worse before they get better as the Lord begins to work and expose the sin that ultimately pushed you to this place , where you recognized I am a sinner and need of a savior .

And when you talk about the young people , again , that's where I love ministering to young people and talking to young people , because I feel like that's exactly what they want . The level of trust overall I feel like over the last 10 years is just significantly low , and it's not just with the media and it's not just with politicians .

I feel like it's with pastors and churches . I think you have young people who are saying you know the , the , the anchorman thing ? I don't believe you . Right , that's one of my . It's one of my favorite , just to use .

This is we want you to accept Christ because he's better than your life , no matter how crappy or how good it is , he's going to sustain you through those things , through the valleys as well as on the peaks .

But this is not necessarily a call to an easy life , because if that were possible , then that would be inconsistent with everything that Christ prepared for .

They kind of rebelled against God and these parents came back to Andy and were like what did we do wrong ? What's happening ? What should we do differently ? And he really was pressing upon future parents that your kids have to have their own level of faith . Yeah , you can't , they can't have your faith . They have to have their own .

If they have your faith , good luck , because you won't be there when they go to college . More than likely , if you're a good parent , you don't hover over them . So I think that for us , like we , we allow questioning in our family . We want you to question things , we want you to speak your mind and have to look up scripture .

And Mark's really good at you know being that spiritual leader in our family with the girls and just you know saying , okay , well , let's look this up and let's see what's in here that talks about these things , and you know how much do you think that that is important , as you , you're a father of young kids , right ?

What's the goal as parents when it comes to teaching them ? Because it's you're exactly right , I said the same thing to our kids .

There is a hole in your heart that is only shape for God , and you're going to try to fill it , sometimes with other things , friendships or clothing , or you know the world , whatever popularity , whatever it is , and eventually it's not going to . You're still , it's not filling the hole and you're going to feel empty .

So I promise you this is what I've told the girls very honestly I promise you , the only thing that is going to fill that spot is God , and it's not going to be easy , but I promise you you will feel whole if you will just accept the fact that that is what that spot's supposed to be , because it's bigger than us .

So I'm having deeper conversations with my 10-year-old daughter , brooklyn , than I would have ever imagined I would have had to have . I would have thought these were conversations for 14 , 15 , and 16-year-old years old , and we're having them at eight , nine and 10 right now .

But to your point about faith , I think one of the things that I'll tell folks is that you know , god doesn't have grandkids . He has kids . He has sons and daughters . And so , while the faith of the parent is absolutely critical and important in shaping , ultimately we want exactly what you just described . We want the faith of mom and dad to become my faith .

You know I was raised by a very , very godly mom , but the moment came in my life where it was no longer about is this mom's faith ? I had to ask myself the question is it mine ? And that's what we want every child to get to that point where they say , okay , great , like I've been nurtured , I've been led , I've been given wisdom .

You know , I've grown in my wisdom and knowledge of the Lord and now I'm taking what was originally moms or dads and I'm making it personal , I'm making it mine and I think those conversations we can have those as young as our kids are ready to have them . I'm having those conversations with my daughter as we speak .

She is questioning all sorts of things and one of the things that I'm encouraging her is God is big enough for all of those questions . You don't need to be afraid , and I'm also not afraid , as a dad , to tell you some of those questions I don't know .

I don't know , and what I will qualify that with is that , and if I knew all the answers to every question , that's honestly a God who might not be worthy of our worship . Because if I can fully comprehend him and everything about him and who he is and what he does , that actually makes him relatively small , because I don't even understand you .

I can't comprehend you or your mom or your brother , and somehow I'm supposed to fully be able to comprehend God . No , it's not going to happen this side of heaven , but I can assure you I always tell her he's not afraid of those questions .

So keep them coming and we'll work through them together and some of them we may come out saying you know what we'll find out when we get into eternity , and that's perfectly okay .

And you know , in thinking that it , you know what happened with the Holocaust was something that was a moment where you realize wait a minute , this will never happen to the Jews again .

And now we're seeing , you're seeing across the globe , we're seeing marches that there's no doubt are rooted in many cases in some very , very anti-Semitic thoughts not all of them , but definitely a lot . So where do you think we are with what's happening in Israel , the war in the Gaza Strip and potentially seeing that expand From a biblical perspective ?

What are you ?

I think one of the benefits of being Christians is that we understand , against that spiritual battle that undergirds some of the political things that we see unraveling as we speak and while the world may be looking on saying we don't know what this is about . This doesn't make any sense .

For those of us who are familiar with not only the beginning but the end of this book , we understand this is precisely what the Lord said would happen . As far as the anti-Semitism , I think I have to revisit the conversation we had about the exposure of good versus evil . These are things that I think have been there . This didn't suddenly arrive overnight .

It's happened and somehow , in all of our wokeness and all of our efforts for social justice , it turns out there was this massive anti-Semitism that was brewing beneath the surface that is now fully on display , and I think the interesting thing about it that's really , really disheartening is there's absolutely no shame about it . There is just no shame about it .

And I was trying to make sense of this and it was interesting . Pastor Skip did an interview with a Messianic Christian friend of his a while back . I'd encourage you all to go back and look at it up on YouTube . But he was talking about just the hatred that is being exposed now toward the Jews .

And this Christian friend of his , who is a Messianic Christian over in Israel , turned the question a bit and he said you know , pastor Skip , I believe that you and the church and Christians love Israel with a divine love . If we were to ask you , why do you love Israel ? Part of the reason is you've been given this divine love for God's people .

And then he turned it and he said the people on the other side , they've also been given something divine . It's a divine hate for God's people . And so he said well , we can go to battle and we can take their arms away and we can do all of these things to defend and protect ourselves . We can't really do anything about the hate .

And in his mind he said just like your love for Israel and for God's people is divine , so is the hatred this is . This is divine . And again it takes us right back to that conversation we had earlier . At the end of the day , this is not just about Israel versus the rest of the world .

This , ultimately , is about good versus evil , god versus Satan , and the quicker that we understand that , the more sense we can then make of it . But also then grab ahold to some of the hope that we find in scripture that God has not lost control of the situation . He is still fully on the throne , regardless of who occupies the roundhouse or the White House .

He is completely still in control and there is nothing that happens without his willful hand involved .

So before you're saying we need safe spaces and we need all these things and we need fairness and we need to treat it , all this stuff was just a form of trying to get power in whatever political and business whatever , and now these are the same people that are filled with hate and are at the end of the day .

It's ironic that they're calling people out as racist and now they are living a very public racist movement , and I just think that's the one thing . At least I hope people have their eyes open to realize that this wokeness thing is a bunch of garbage because it's based in power . It's not based in truth .

And again that creates then the outliers of these other individuals who are either balking on a little bit like members of our congressional delegation , who don't know quite what to do with the situation , but I feel like the other side of it .

It's given a platform for people like you and others , those of us who are pastors , to stand up and , in the strongest sense , completely condemn anti-Semitism and to say we stand with the nation of Israel and we stand with this . We stand with this country who has , throughout its history , somehow managed to survive and somehow managed to continue to defend itself .

And even as we look on a map , I showed my kids this the other day . I said this is the nation of Israel .

And yes , we can appoint to the great relationship that they have traditionally had with America , but also you have to appoint to the divine and say these are God's chosen people . He made a covenant with them .

We believe that God is faithful to fulfill his covenants and so long as he has this covenant with them , he will be faithful to protect them and ultimately , they will prevail .

She said state-backed violence against innocent Palestinian families , whether violently attacked , of communities in the West Bank , or indiscriminate military actions . By the way , you can never accuse Israel of being indiscriminate in their military actions .

That is a that is a ridiculous statement and a reckless statement by her killing women and children and cutting off innocent , or cutting off innocent civilians from food and water and Gaza . This is such a dangerous statement because , number one , she doesn't mention a word of the horrendous things that happened to Israeli families on October 7th .

I mean , we're talking about children thrown in ovens , we're talking about children cut out of women , we're talking about people , elderly people , gunned down indiscriminately . And she goes and flips all this and completely misrepresent what's happening . How dangerous is that to you when someone who is a leader supposed to be a leader ?

Melanie Stansberry was elected by the people of the first congressional district in the Albuquerque area and she goes and says the most ridiculous things like this and it really does inflame all the tensions that we're seeing here . How disappointing is what she's doing to you .

They're constantly trying to ride the fence on so many different issues , but on this one there can be none of that . You have to pick a side .

You have to suit up and say I'm on this side or I'm on this side , and this whole idea that somehow this is just some , and I feel like what they're trying to communicate through that is , they're trying to confuse the electorate that this is a complicated issue . We don't really know what's going on . There's good people on both sides .

How many of you have heard that They've lit ?

When they've said that they've been sexually harassed or whatever , pay attention to them . Now we have video evidence that Hamas came in , raped women , raped dead women in front of their friends and their family members , and the same women are saying , oh no , we don't have proof of that . We don't have evidence of that . We're not seeing that .

I think how two-sided are you ? So , so you're . I'll tell you right now , women are second in , second in line , if even then , in a Hamas culture . So I do not understand why women are not coming together more strongly against Hamas . Like , I don't get it at all .

I mean , you can be for the Palestinian people that are innocent , but you have to be anti Hamas . I do not understand .

She went out and , through demonstrations , she kept lying about it . So let's listen to what she said about the bombings of the hospital .

Melanie Stansbury says the effort to censure Rashida Tlaib is deeply rooted in Islamophobia and hate . That is the most clueless , damaging thing that I've ever seen an elected official say . That represents us . Who do we have and who are we dealing with here ?

As far as our representatives go , and you've gotten in the middle of politics because it matters you've got to put your armor on and start to change this . So when you see this , what do we do ?

It has to be , and if not now , when I realized that there are divisions over so many issues at the state and federal level , but when it comes to this particular issue that we are facing right now , I feel , like I said before , you need to pick a side and we need to know where you stand , and the fact that we have a delegation in Washington DC that

consistently doesn't represent me I think you would agree doesn't represent you . It's a wake up call for all New Mexicans and all New Mexico voters . We have important elections coming up this year and next year and then the years that follow . We need to be awake , we need to get to the polls , we need to do something about it .

I know there are lots of pastors and churches who are very hesitant about talking about political engagement and civic engagement .

We're not one of them and we believe that because , fundamentally , the government was God's idea that he raises up men and women of influence into positions of power to protect us from evil and to promote what is good , that we would be better off when more men and women of God are not only voting but also serving in elected positions from the very , very local

municipality all the way up to the White House , whatever that looks like , and I think that this is a great opportunity to point to things like this and just ask folks are these people effectively representing you ?

Because if they're not , you have an obligation to do something about it , and I think that's one of the things that's been sorely lacking for so long is just the silence , in many cases of the church . Dietrich Bonhoeffer , one of my favorite preachers . He said silence in the face of evil is evil itself .

Not to speak is to speak , and I think , if we really take that to heart , it needs to bring us to a place of repentance where we acknowledge God . Forgive me , not just of what I say , but forgive me of when I don't say something .

And one of the ways that we speak and you all know this because you've lived it more recently one of the ways that we can speak is with our vote and how we engage in the political process . I'm so thankful to work for my leader , senator Greg Baca from the Bolan area .

I work for him because I believe in him and I've been privileged to work for some other incredible folks over the years , a folks who genuinely have the best interest of our state , who want New Mexico to go from the very bottom to the very top and aren't in it for what you described which is really why , unfortunately , too many people get into politics is they

just want power . They just want power and then they cover and they get queued about all their different positions , and my response to that is always you know what ? Let's not get lost in some of the semantics and how we wanna sugarcoat the issues .

Tell me what you wanna do with the power you have and then we can have a serious conversation as to whether it's right or wrong .

But we cannot be silenced by even some well-intended folks who , I think , wanna uncover some things and have some serious conversations about what changes need to be made .

But the reality is , if we don't vote , if we don't show up and do our thing , not only does it not give us the wins that we need , but also , in my opinion , we abandon the right then to complain . If we didn't vote if we didn't get out and do anything about it , then why talk about it ? What platform do you have to talk about it ?

We have some , there's no doubt , and there are plenty in our legislature , unfortunately , and there are a lot of them in our congressional delegation , however , and you see a lot of them , especially north of Santa Fe to me less so than in Santa Fe , but do you think there's an opportunity because there are some Democrats , especially those with the same values ,

that we hold an opportunity to broaden more of a family values type of message to them , knowing that they aren't anti-Israel , they aren't anti-family , they really do want the same things that we want ? Do you think there's that opportunity to open things up and to have more of a governing majority in that way ?

In fact , my great-grandfather was a statewide elected official multiple times , and so I was raised in democratic country by democratic family , and the question then became when I registered as a Republican well , why would you do that ? In my response to all of my older relatives and parents were , this is who you made me to be .

You taught me the importance of hard work and independence . You taught me about the importance of faith and family , and this party is not necessarily consistent with those values any longer . It's not the party of Kennedy anymore , and I think that having those conversations has been incredibly helpful for me with my own family .

But that's where I started , and people will often ask me well , where do you start ? Start by having a conversation with your mom , with your grandma , with your uncle

. Politics tends to come up now , during the holiday season , rather than letting it de-escalate into something where everybody's fighting . Have serious , thought-provoking conversations about where New Mexico is and whether we think this is the right direction and the right track that we should be on . I've had that conversation and you know .

I think , mark you may have seen this on my social media but my grandmother , who was a longtime Democrat she just celebrated her 82nd birthday yesterday . She's been a Democrat since the day that she registered to vote . She just changed parties this year and for her it was . She finally was fed up with the direction of New Mexico .

She was fed up with the state that was being left for her grandkids and her great grandkids , and I think there's plenty of opportunities to have those good conversations with people that we know , friends that we know .

You had lots of support in Rio Reba County , you know , during both your run for the Senate and your run for governor , and I feel that that's where you really connected with people is on the whole message of faith , family , freedom . That's something that still resonates with our people , regardless of their political affiliation .

What are you seeing with this issue ? And then we'll get into some of the information that we have . One of the people who pioneered this care is now saying wait a minute , I made a terrible mistake . This is incredibly dangerous for kids . What are you seeing from the people You're talking to ? What are you seeing from the church and legislative perspective ?

a biblical perspective , this was never a confusing issue for me . I go back to the very beginning , where the creator of the universe , god , says in the image of God they were created , male and female .

It wasn't really a question for us , and yet it became an issue that we had to quickly address and tackle , even with some of the kids in our church , as things were being perpetuated in their public schools .

And I think one of the things that we've been able to now circle back even with some of those families is to say okay , we have our biblical perspective . That's the most important , that's the foundation of everything that we believe . But now listen .

Listen to folks who have been there , who have gone through this process and are now sharing their heart-wrenching stories of what that body mutilation has meant for them 10 , 15 years down the road . Listen to some of these folks from over in Europe who , again , we're pioneers , who are now circling back and saying we messed up , we made a huge mistake .

You have to stop .

Here's one of the things that she says here and you can see it on your screen , and if you're listening to this , I'll read it to you . She says even so , I had some serious questions about all this . We were being told to intervene in healthy , functioning bodies simply on the basis of a young person shifting feelings about gender .

Adolescence is complex , and it's a complex period in which people are consolidating their personalities , exploring sexual feelings and becoming independent of their parents . Identity achievement is the outcome of successful adolescent development , not the starting point . It's really well said , mm-hmm , yeah .

And she goes on to say the young people we were treating were not thriving . Instead , their lives were deteriorating . We thought what is this ? Because there wasn't a hint in the studies right , the studies that this could happen .

Sometimes young people insisted their lives had improved and they were happier , but as a medical doctor , I could see that they were doing far worse . They were withdrawing from all social activities , they were not making friends , they were not going to school . We continued to network with colleagues in different countries who said they were seeing the same thing .

There's been legislation that has been passed in March that really basically says you don't have to tell the parents If you know if they are being gender-affirmed inside of a public school system you don't , or any other public government-funded arena . The parents don't have to know about any of this . I wholeheartedly disagree with that as a parent .

But their argument is always well , these kids are the highest risk for suicide . These are the kids that are most depressed , and I just have always said I don't buy that . I think teenagers in general are depressed . Most teenagers get depressed from time to time . I think that they've .

I've seen studies now that 57% of teenage girls are the highest now for suicide watch , basically from lots of numbers of different things . But social media have been one of those big proponents .

So I just sit here and think this is so backwards and the fact that we we need to rise up as parents and stop letting all of this just lie in the hands of I don't even know who . We're letting it lie in the hands of Teachers union , I don't really know , but I am .

I'm frustrated as a parent that we're not doing more to defend these kids , because I don't know about you , but our kids , their entire lives , have changed their minds about all kinds of things and I think we just our job as parents is to help them get through in this , this time period and transition into adults and be more self assured .

And that isn't just giving a kid whatever their whim is or whatever their want is or desire is for for that moment .

And so , yes , as parents , parents need to be on the front lines of of these sorts of conversations and , unfortunately , I feel like this is an area where we have to take some responsibility . And exactly what you've said we have seated so much of our authority over to the government .

You know , we let them tell us what we should eat and what we shouldn't eat , where we should go to school , what we need to learn , what's required , what's not required . We have given so much of that away .

And now I think that the time has come where parents are starting to realize , you know what , for the health of my child , for the good of my child , I'm taking all of that back and I know that's something that's happened with my family , and we've also always been , you know , pretty active , my wife and I .

But now we're very skeptical of anything and again , it's not that we're anti , whatever it is you want to put in that category , but we're just looking at everything and combing through it very , very carefully to figure out but is this ? Is this true ?

And I think that's one of the things if you want to put a spiritual bow on that is again , the scripture talks about taking every thought captive and destroying ideas . You know , false ideas that come against the truth of scripture and what God has told us .

Paul warns us and encourages us to do that to destroy unreasonable arguments and to take every thought captive . Well , how does that ? How do we simplify that ? Ask yourself the question is it true ? And I feel like we just never get there in so many cases because everything these days has become so relative . Well , what's your truth ? Or what's your story ?

No , not . What's your truth . Forget your truth . What is truth ? And I'm reminded then of the question that was posed to Christ , you know , at his crucifixion , when he mentions truth and the very person who was responsible for handing him over responds to that question what is truth ? It's a great question and the answer is the truth is Jesus Christ .

And if we can take these difficult conversations with our children and , yes , I'm my daughter I love having deep conversations with her , but one of the things that I'm we're working on right now is the difference between feeling in fact and I'm having to remind her like sometimes our feelings , they lie to us .

I don't care how deeply you can feel something , sometimes your feelings lie to you , and so what we have to do is take these feelings that God has given us for good and we ask ourselves but is this feeling true ? Because if we just bask in the feeling and it's not true , that's not going to take us to a good place .

In fact , they're having to wade through a a morass of garbage where they can't figure out what's true and what's not . And what scares me is that this is just beginning . Now you're starting to see video of stuff and pictures of things that just didn't happen .

And so now and I do think this is one of the ways that Satan loves it Because then , if you can't find objective truth , how in the world do you convince somebody this whole thought process of oh no , that didn't happen in Israel . Oh no , the Israelis are absolutely bombing hospitals .

You know , you got stuff that said that isn't true , that there may be no way to figure out anymore what real truth is . So how do we do that ?

Right now , suicide rates are on the rise , and again , not because of some of the other issues that they perpetuate , but again you're just exposing children who are not prepared for those sorts of things two things at such a young age .

So my recommendation is and again , as parents , this is hard because my 10 year old is already asking for a phone and wondering when she's going to get a phone and then when she's going to be able to get social media .

And our response right now I'll be honest , my wife and I is we're not sure Like we really need to see how this whole thing goes and we need to really be careful about what you are exposed to and lovingly trying to talk to my daughter in terms of these boundaries that we are putting in place that you think are just horrible and unreasonable .

We do it because we love you in the same way that the Lord has , through his word , given us boundaries . He says these are the boundaries in which life best works , in which marriage best works , and if you stay within these boundaries you'll flourish . If you go outside of them , you're going to suffer . And so we're having those conversations right now .

But my recommendation is be careful . What you're allowing your kids to watch , as I've even witnessed lately through some of our TV subscriptions the commercials . The indoctrination that is there in commercials that I can't even allow my kid to watch a cartoon , I have to sit there and censor the commercials .

To see what's being perpetuated is just incredibly unfortunate , but that's the reality of the time in which we live . And so my advice is be careful about the social media , but also keep having those deep conversations with your kids . Welcome them , let's talk about it and let's get to what is truth . Let's research it together

. I've many times pulled out my phone or pulled out my iPad and said all right , Brooklyn , that's a great question . Let's get down to the bottom of it . Let's figure out what actually happened , because they're saying this happened , they're saying this happened , but what's most important , what actually happened ? Let's find that out , Yep .

If I , if I pulled that well , everybody else , every other mom's letting this happen , then it was an instant no for me . You know . It was like no , it's not going to happen . So I've tried to tell our girls I don't really care what everybody else is doing , we're going to make this decision based on you too , and our family values .

That's what we're making our decisions on . So anyway .

But what do you say to people who kind of look at all this now and it's kind of overwhelming and you're exposed to so much different information ? I still believe partially too . Remember , back 40 years ago you just didn't know about all these other things that were going on . Who knew God knew about all those things ? You didn't , right , but now we do .

And so what do you say to people who say I'm overwhelmed by this ? Give me hope .

But the reality is we decided this was home and we really felt that the Lord was preparing New Mexico to be a bastion of light in a darkening world . And my thing for people has always been I believe God jumps in and gets involved in situations where he is going to be most glorified and receive the most praise .

And what better place in this country than New Mexico ? Can you imagine if New Mexico experienced the type of revival that we hope and pray for and people of the world , not just here in America , but the world is looking at ?

Wait a second New Mexico like flyover state , deep blue New Mexico who is at the bottom of every good list and the top of every bad list , like what happened there , and for us as the church to be able to say we just prayed and we believe that God was good enough to answer our prayers .

We got involved , we didn't stay silent , we stepped up , we spoke up and look what he did , and we were blessed to be part of it . So my encouragement is take , take hope in that . I guess the other side of it is , if we look around and it seems like the world is falling apart .

I want to share with you a passage from one of the Psalms that I read this morning . It's in Psalm chapter 2 . But again , none of this catches the Lord by surprise . And in Psalm 2 , the word of the Lord says why do the nations rage and the people plot in vain ?

The kings of the earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His anointed . And it's interesting there To set yourself against God's anointed is to set yourself against the Lord Himself . Later on in the verse , in the passage , it says he who sits in the heavens , that is the Lord . What is he doing ?

He laughs , he laughs . The Lord holds them in derision . Then he will speak to them in His wrath and terrify them in fury , saying as for me , I've set my King on Zion , my Holy Hill . And the chapter ends with this and I'm going to leave you with these words Blessed are all who take refuge in Him .

Blessed are those who take refuge in the Lord , and so if you look around and you're struggling to find hope in anything or anyone , take hope in that If you are in the Lord , you are blessed . Well , amen to that , we can't there's nothing else we can say that's better than that .

Thank you All right , we'll see you next time on the no Doubt About it podcast .