¶ Political Careers and Running for Office
No , got about it . Okay , it's go time .
It is the legends here .
The legend has made it . The legend has made it . For those of you who do not know politics in the state of New Mexico , we would like to introduce you to Jay McCleskey , a man who is the best in the business He is .
He's fantastic .
Yeah , he's got a lot of fun . I know for two of them , but anyway , whatever , where ?
is that Still ?
But so for those of you who do know politics , you probably do know Jay . He has a long history in the state as a general campaign consultant , which we'll talk about what that is with you and talk about where the state of politics is in New Mexico , and we'll spend a lot of time on our campaign .
what happened , what worked , what didn't work , maybe some funny things along the way . But tell us first of all a little bit of your story , how you ended up in politics and how you ended up doing this for this long in the state .
All right , well , thanks for having me , guys . I agreed to do this when I didn't think you'd actually have the podcast .
That's a good point .
He's not somebody you see on a lot of different shows .
Ever , but that way He is the best Yeah .
Well , i got into politics . I was down in New Mexico state always interested in politics , but I was down in New Mexico state taking a New Mexico government class And one of the projects was to do a I think this was 96 . And it was to do targeting precinct targeting for a state senate race And I ended up helping out .
Bill Payne , who was a state senator , ends up winning that race by a coin toss . If you will know that in New Mexico you have a game of chance if it's a tie vote . And he ends up Tails never fails , And he was a state senator . He's now a regent at UNM . I met the executive director of the Republican party at the time was Kevin Muema .
Got to know him , started working for the party as a political director doing campaigns , Ended up doing the race against Raymond Sanchez when he was the speaker of the house .
For John Sanchez . For John Sanchez .
And John defeated him in 2000 . It was a huge race . Ended up then taking the position as the executive director and ran the state party in New Mexico in 01 . Did John's gubernatorial race in 02 .
So wait you were a state party chair .
I told you he was Executive director .
Oh executive ED .
Okay , john Dendall John .
Dendall Got it Okay .
So and then after that I ended up working for the Bush campaign . I had actually New Mexico and Nevada primarily New Mexico and in the 2004 election and passed .
After that I worked for the political arm of the president Bush , which is out of the RNC , as the regional political director for the Southwest , kind of running all the federal races and those operations for four years And then ended up starting my own business when I left the RNC in 08 . Went back to doing campaigns .
I did RJ Berry's mayoral election , governor Martinez's election Yeah , ended up working , staying on and running her PACs and stuff in New Mexico . At the same time I'm doing races in other states . I do stuff in other states And ended up meeting you along the way .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , it was 2014 . I know , we thought about running , so we flew to DC . You , christy and I , and you , well , not together .
Not together .
No .
Here's the thing . I guess some people don't actually know this because they think I don't know , you were just some weather guy that decided , out of the like I don't know , five seconds before election to just throw your hat in .
But we'd actually been looking at this for several years and trying to get guidance on the right race to jump into , making sure that it was something that would make sense for everyone involved . Well , you know the people of New Mexico , our family , everything And so we go out to DC . It's 2014 . Is that right ?
Yeah , and that's the first two years in the house .
First congressional seat Yeah You were thinking about running for yeah , That's .
Congress Yeah .
Congress . And so we fly out there and I have to kind of go kill time because you're going to have some secret meetings with Jay right . So I go to the museums and do my thing , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah .
And then what I recall is that we were supposed to meet at this Italian restaurant for dinner and I was going to meet the legendary Jay right For the first time . Really good , sit down , ask him some questions . He's going to get to know me a little bit . Make sure I'm a good candidate's wife , kind of thing , yeah . And so we go to the Italian restaurant .
Here comes Mark , comes strolling in and I'm like where's Jay ? And he's like , yeah , he's gone , He left . And he you know , this is how , i guess , he just flies back whenever he wants to And I was like so no time for me . And so it took several years until I actually met you . You two were pretty much .
We had regular secret meetings in a resort called the Balsams in New Hampshire .
And in truth I was very skeptical about Mark running , Not because he was a great candidate and he did well , I was always like why would you subject yourself to this ?
It's such a tough state . There's such tough districts .
Like really , like you really want to do this and give up your job and your career . So many people run for office and they're not really risking a whole lot .
I know .
And you guys put everything out there and risked it all And that's why , like in 14 and throughout , it was always like it's kind of you know , skeptical We put it all on red and we lost .
Yeah , it turns out It turns out .
It turns out like I didn't know there was a blue .
There's a blue in this .
I thought it was just black . No , and it's one of the interesting things about working with you , because for people in the political world they're like you know you have a lot of supporters , but you have people who . It was always funny when I meet people who would say you know , or are you using Jay ?
And I say yeah , and we'd always start these conversations . They're like well , i don't like them . And after a while I'd be like the first question I have in my mouth would be so when did you first meet him ? Invariably every time .
Well , i've never actually met him , but I just you know and it's just and so we always make this joke that we send you this meme that says you know you're the best when , when , when , when .
Everybody you know people who don't even know you hate you , and so obviously , when you look at that , you knew that world , you know how , you know combative it is , and I was coming from a world where , where you know when you do the weather , especially if you do a good job , they love you . And you're right . You tried to give me the warning .
I remember you know , obviously I'd be go to lunches and stuff with Governor Martinez and people would come up and with RJ or whatever , and people would come up When lunches with you was even way more popular because it's like 100% of the people loved you And obviously immediately when you announced 50% , they hate you . Yeah .
You're right , it's unbelievable .
The best days we ever had were when we started . We looked at you in the Senate race and Nicole , your wife , was our pollster , so we pulled . Maybe we look great , like , yeah , we like some . And what it does is in TV . This interesting thing about TV when you sit down to negotiate your contract , and television , what you do every three years .
They never tell you how popular you are . They don't want you to know , because if you know , then you know how valuable you are . Well , when you get into the political world and you start looking at the numbers , it's a similar thing . You know it's a positive or negative . What do they think of you ?
What do you think of me Name ID , yeah , all that stuff .
And that's the stuff in TV that is so closely guarded by stations that we finally had a look at it . It doesn't mean you win or whatever , but it does at least give you that jumping off point .
So when you look at candidates and you start saying , ok , i'm going to check out , like Susanna was a great candidate because she had a background in law enforcement , basically , and then coming up through the ranks , so she was an attractive candidate , i know Obviously we had our benefits . What do you look at ?
any candidate to say , ok , you know what I'm jumping on board here .
Well , i mean , i just think it's candidates There are different candidates that are right at different times And I think it's kind of to me obviously I'm a big basketball fan , basketball coach It's like game of matchups and campaigns are game of matchups And you had , you know . You go back to Governor Martinez . When she first ran , she was a prosecutor .
Corruption was a huge issue in the state in the primary . She's a prosecutor who had prosecuted corruption . She prosecuted cases on the border . The border is a big issue . She was an outsider , you know , and that Richardson , that was kind of a perfect fit .
And I mean , i think sometimes that's really kind of what you're looking for is you can't fit at the right time And it's just being honest with candidates about . In some of these races they're very challenging to get into .
And I think the other thing , as you saw that happened is you go through , you know , the Senate primary And in all of a sudden , everyone you beat . They don't always come right on board .
Really . They're very offended , they're offended that they didn't win that primary , and so they're not going to have your back right away .
It's just like I go through these and it's funny because it's like every campaign afterwards is like you know they get very offended that they lost And they don't ever want to say , well , voter just chose his candidate .
It's always oh he had more money , or he did this , or he did that .
And it's like no , you lost .
Yeah .
It's true .
It is funny , though Time does heal some of that . Like Lisa Martinez , i think she's great . At the time . You know it wasn't great . But then in Gavin I've talked to him since then Now the governor's race was different . That definitely was more contentious , i think , than what we had in , and I don't know so much talking about candidates .
Is there a supporter , sometimes An activist ? Voters get over real fast . Yeah , voters Right . There's always a separation between what voters want and what activists want sometimes . Yeah , and you see , that kind of insiders or the establishment .
Yeah , when you say activists .
What are you talking about ? I'm talking about insiders establishment . You know the same . You know 50 or 100 people that are kind of involved . These are , you know , very opinionated .
They go to the meetings . They're very opinionated . God bless them . They're very active . Yeah , absolutely .
They're very opinionated and they're going to take sides for a long time , right .
And they're going to be they're kind of one issue voter to some degree , like that's really kind of they get really passionate about one particular issue that's going to be decided or they're hoping it will be decided .
It's kind of my experience with it And sometimes that to me feels challenging is that you know you want to find a candidate that's going to help the state on a whole And not there's no such thing as a perfect candidate We've talked about that right .
Like you can't , you're not going to fill every bucket for every single voter out there or every single activist out there , like that doesn't exist .
So you're trying to find somebody , though Like I you know , obviously I'm biased and I think he was a great candidate because he's a good communicator and could really talk to both sides of the aisle , which I think that has to be something you go for too .
Well , i think that was a big thing . I mean he's I mean Mark's very genuine , he's very intelligent , he's very charismatic and he has that kind of appeal And that's why he was successful in television . It's why you know he didn't win these races , but that's why he's able to win the primaries .
It's why he was able to make them as competitive as they were in a very blue state , and so you see that .
All right , let's talk a little bit about the campaign . I want to go through this , starting at the primary . This was sort of a primary . We had a lot of different characters in this race . When you looked at who we were running against , what did you think of the races ? we got things started .
¶ Primary Strategy and Convention Decision
Well , i thought there were , there were strong candidates that were in the field that you know , that we had to take the primary seriously , that we could very easily lose the primary . I think they , you know , underestimated your strength as a candidate in a primary , but I mean primaries .
Republican primaries around the country are notorious for , you know , flipping at the last minute and , and you know , candidates coming out of nowhere and winning . So I was always nervous about the primary . I thought we had candidates that could beat us And so we had to take it real seriously .
And we knew that if someone was going to beat us , they're going to have to take it seriously , they're going to have to run to my right , right , we , we , just we sort of felt that way .
Right , I mean , and first thing we had to do was get on the ballot . I don't know if you remember we almost didn't accomplish that .
Well , so I'm on a fundraising trip in Dallas and Jessica , our fundraiser , and I are in Dallas raising money , and so we're going there and all of a sudden we get a panicked call that our , our , our paperwork is not correct And that if it wasn't in that day we might not end up on the ballot .
And we did not believe that the Democratic secretary of state was going to give us you know outside .
Maggie was looking to help me out .
Maggie was not getting the outside corner on that one .
And so , and we were really light staff , i mean , the campaign was really .
With three people working .
And we had to put someone on a plane .
Yeah , wake gardener flew out . Flew out on a plane to Dallas to get your signature Yeah it was good use of campaign funds right there , like there you go Wake get on a plane .
We're not going to take that chance . Yeah .
Yeah , we almost didn't make it on the ballot .
Yeah .
And then Ella and I had to drive all those petitions back up to make sure that they got filed , and sit there and watch them .
So that was in Santa Fe , right In Santa Fe . Yeah , yeah , yeah , kristi and Ella go up to Santa Fe , and this is all around the time where we start the .
Republican convention . Right , because there are multiple ways to get on the ballot .
Right , right . So you can get on a couple of different ways . You can go and get well , basically a combination of a certain number of signatures , like 1500 signatures and 20% at the convention , or you can get something roughly around 3500 signatures and you don't have to have a convention presence .
So those are really kind of the two basic ways in which you get on . Well , we knew and some of what you talked about when I got in this race . I was not the darling of the convention . So for people who don't know what the convention is and how it works , how's that play out ?
Every county holds a convention and delegates . People run and become delegates and then they go to the state convention and then they vote for candidates . They change the rules though this time . It used to be a big organizing effort for gubernatorial campaigns .
You would try to get as many of your supporters within the county your grassroots supporters to show up and become , run and become delegates in their wards or their districts and get elected and then vote for you .
They change the rules to where , if you hadn't been , some of these counties did , where if you hadn't been to the last three county meetings , you couldn't be a delegate . So what that basically did is shut out every all of your supporters who were new to the process , and we thought it was going to be a very uphill battle .
So then we had a choice to make . We all get on the phone . I'll never forget this . We get on the phone and we know we have three different choices . And you myself , i think Scott Darnell on the phone and I think Alexis Darnell's on the phone We're all sitting there and Nicole's on the phone and say what do we do ? We could do number one .
We could just blow off the convention all together because we had 80 , 500 signatures . So we had more signatures than anybody else by three fold . So we knew we had the support we needed . So we could just not go to the convention .
All right , but that tells the real grassroots people who put real effort in in the state Hey , we don't even care to talk to you . So that was a tough one . Number two we could go and give it a full effort , go out there and give it a full shot .
And we knew we were going to lose Like we're going to go give it a full , we're going to show weakness just by getting smoked in the convention . And then number three was go to the convention and tell everybody in the convention don't vote for me , don't vote for me . And we settled on choice number three .
Well , we it wasn't really a we , jay . As you recall , this was your decision , mark , and we all stood in the back and watched you make this decision And then we got behind you Because it did make . It , honestly , made the most sense , like logically , when you really think about it .
But well , I think , I think initially you weren't , you were down for old number one .
I was down for old number one . Just be going on comfort , Just like I don't want to show , I mean you're the thing .
It's talking about grassroots , but it's really establishment when you shut out grassroots right , It becomes an establishment thing .
No , and that's the thing . And really what ?
I number one made me a little nervous and we'd always talked about it . The other side was people spend a campaign , spend a ton of money on this convention process that real Republican voters don't care about . And for us I mean I remember we talked about this was let them spend that money .
Let's put like , let's put together , like not pull out right away and make them spend a ton of money And then at the end of the day you can give your speech , and I think that's where you came down . It was not .
It was not well received . But I will say what I said in the speech , and I stand behind . It is like too many , too many times in these , in these meetings , whatever party you're in , people end up fighting with each other and not realizing that we're all pulling in the same direction here .
So my point was I don't need your vote today , And I said that I don't need your vote today because I'm on the ballot , but give your vote to someone else .
Get as many people on the ballot as we can , which also benefited our campaign but get as many people on the ballot as you can And let's go and that's elect somebody in the primary and then everybody pulling the same direction and let's do it together .
We interrupt this podcast to play for you the speech in full so you can determine how offensive it really was . Our first candidate for governor is Mark Roncetti . Mark , Thank you all .
We really appreciate it .
And one of the real problems being a dad that I've just found out as I'm looking at these two little girls standing up here is sometimes you got to put your money where your mouth is and say what you really think .
So this is going to be unlike any convention speech that you've ever heard , because I'm not going to stand up here today and pound away and tell you why I need your vote as a delegate . And let me explain why . I believe every Republican running over here should be on the ballot with me .
I mean that We have 7,000 signatures from Republicans like you guys all across the state . We are on the ballot already , but there are candidates that you're going to hear from that are good people that deserve to be on this ballot as well .
So , for the sake of party unity , i encourage every one of you to give them a fair hearing as well And let's get as many people on that ballot to take on Michelle Muhangrisham as possible .
¶ Challenges and Strategy in Political Campaign
But I'm concerned because of the back-biting and back-stabbing that this process has to come . Many of you have seen it . We've got gubernatorial candidates trying to keep other gubernatorial candidates off the ballot . We've got cheap shot cowards going out there sending texts anonymously , just a couple of days before the ballot is back . I'm lost .
I'm just going to wait and see . You know , we even have friends in this room who aren't speaking to each other because they find themselves on the other side of this , what they call battle .
We're all on the same side here , but too often when we go to certain counties and it's happened this time certain counties change their rules to keep certain Republicans from attending this event . We cannot do that because parties who exclude their own lose .
If you look around this room , it's very clear We are all partners in a fight to beat the one person that we know we have to try up over , and that is Michelle Luhangrisham . I respect your efforts . That's why we're going around this state and we will continue to go around this state . Don't misunderstand what I'm saying .
We need you and our campaign needs you , no question about it . But today , come together and bring more Republicans together , because this campaign across the state has 7,000 people that have signed our petition more than three times any other candidate . We've raised more money by threefold than any other candidate . We have our own opponents .
Polling that says we're dead , even with the governor .
Ready to compete on day one . Our chance is here . It is now . We need you , But please don't believe the fight is in this room .
It's out there and let's take it to the Democrats . Well , and if you look at how it turned out for us , it kind of turned out perfect .
Yeah , it did . Yeah , and I think Jay Block won the primary . He did . He's still eating off that somewhere in Rio Rancho , i think .
The one candidate that we didn't feel was going to be able to beat you ever , under any circumstances . And then you had . I think Dow took second or something .
Dow took second . Yeah , yeah , she did . And in defense of her , Dow was tough in the respect that she worked really , really hard Like she would get up every day and Dow really pushed hard . So she was the one that we kind of were keeping an eye on most of the time .
Yeah , I think she worked really hard on the convention process . She worked really hard at fundraising . I mean they put together a pretty aggressive campaign .
They did , yeah , and here's one thing So I meet with her . Right at the beginning of the campaign And we sat down and I remember you're like , are you really going to meet with her ? I was like , yeah , i'm going to meet with her . And so we sat down and talked and we went back and forth on stuff And I basically encouraged her .
I said , look , i think you should run for a different position . And she said you know , she basically told me to pound sand And it was like , ok , i understand . And then we talked to you , said well , i'm not going to go negative in this campaign . And I said if you don't go negative , i'll never go negative on you .
I said , i promise you I won't go negative first , because I knew And we didn't , no , but we didn't go negative first . And so and I said to her OK , if you're not going negative , then this will not be a negative campaign .
And it took her all It lasted all of your life .
The first act I think she called me television blowhard in her first act .
So before or after your debate ?
Oh , the debate was well before . Okay , yeah , so she got no hurt . So she so here's , you know . So her first ad got her a little bit of juice . She's on the horse and and she goes riding along the border Like we've got , you know , like the Royal Canadian Mounties . She's cruising back and forth on this horse .
I'm like dang it , you know she's , and so she's starting to get a little juice out of it . She calls me a television blowhard and our approach was we just didn't , we weren't going to . You know , we knew . You know we were in good position , the numbers still look good for us , so we were going to keep pushing our message .
Right And she was . she was clearly trying to run and be the Trump candidate .
Right .
She was talking about finishing the border wall Right And uh , and she was going to be the Trump candidate And at that point , like we knew , she was going to be a very aggressive primary . But at that moment in my mind , that's not who Rebecca Dow was as a legislator . She had a good record . She had a record , but it was she's a bipartisan record .
She worked across party lines , worked on different things . She was not the the flamethrower . Right And she was trying to position her as , and , at the end of the day , in these races , voters figure it out , especially if someone's pointing it out .
And that's the issue too , Right . So so then we let that go . And then she goes to the much harder she goes after much harder on TV . I mean , she went after me for the Trump comments and everything else and unloaded . So then we're like , okay , it's go time . Now Like it's , we're going to talk about this .
And this gets to your point Be authentic , be who you are , And when you're not who you are , it's easy to point that out . And so we had two glaring examples at our first . You know , kind of foray into going after , going after her on TV , Right ?
We had someone I think it was a crime vote that that was um where she had voted to get mandate parole for those sentenced to life in prison for murder sentenced to life . There was the issue on the border , like she had just voted Um stimulus checks . Yeah , to give stimulus checks to illegal immigrants , give work permits to illegal immigrants .
And you know , we point those out in the ads and in Basically we had that exchange where they're shooting at us . I think a lot of the insider pun mints who didn't want you to win , who pretend to be neutral , but you know we're like , oh my God , she's going to kill him . She's killing him .
Like these ads are great And we saw , cause we were polling afterwards , that we had that firefight and she was dead . We flipped her image , your image , everything bounced off . Yeah , and so at that point , once our polling came back with that , we went positive . You want us to go positive again ? You're like all right , that's enough .
I thought we were done . I thought we were done . Yeah , you wanted us to go positive . I thought that was it . Yep , i thought that was it . Except that wasn't it , that wasn't it , it wasn't it . So we then get word that well , a couple of things happen . A mailer is sent out by her campaign with quotes attributed to me That you never said That .
I never said . Let's just straight up , not try it .
Well , we can back up . We got a poll , someone got a poll that had asked about these issues . Like what they're making this up , yeah , and no one would really like make stuff up in a real poll Like , no , they can't be using that .
Any of those issues I forgot the issue was something Oh , is it was , it was additional Trump comments that . I should be jailed or something , something just stuff I never said right , just completely never said .
Well , what ended up happening was my old Twitter account was taken by somebody else And during the middle of the Senate race , this guy from some other country is like ripping into Trump . They grab those comments . They know they're not .
They know it's not true . They know it's not true . They know it's not true . That's why they never put on TV , because they would have never did anything in the press with it or anything .
No , not yet , because they knew it was garbage . However , they did send out a mailer on it And then they did . They also contacted a certain gentleman who may want to endorse them . So don't give everybody an inside idea . So you start hearing things . So we had gone positive again . We see there's no other candidate . that's concerning us .
Zanetti is not pouring in a bunch of money to be competitive . We weren't concerned about block and Ethel .
I mean , we were , you know they were . Dow's campaign was aggressively courting president .
You know president Trump's endorsement throughout , and we knew that And we're talking to people within Trump's orbit , we're aware of what's happening , we're giving them information of our polling kind of where the race is and our side of this , and we knew they were aggressively pursuing that .
And then , right towards the end , we get this word that she's going to get this endorsement , and they had the ad cut and our contact within the people who were talking to the Trump orbit suddenly went silent .
And this is somebody right next to Trump that you know pretty well .
And went dark . That hasn't happened And so , given that information , like and they put up another attack ad .
Yeah .
And we're like well , they're getting ready to get this endorsement And the Trump in the Trump endorsement not only would be the Trump endorsement , it would be Trump shredding me Right In the endorsement .
Right , Right . And so you know we get this word , that that's happening and it'd be interesting to know how close they were or not in real life , but we weren't taking that chance , right , right .
So then we had another , another bullet in the gun , which was that there had been issues with with some of um Dow's work down in TLC , with with , uh , daycare issues and things like that .
So I went down and met with the family that that had these issues with her And I sat down with them because I didn't want to run an ad that I wasn't confident was completely airtight , right , and so we sat down with them and had a productive conversation with very nice people , um , and then we end up running that ad .
Yeah , i think we put it up right about the same day they changed traffic to their ad Yep And we sent that ad to Trump's team to be aware of what was on the air . And it's a pretty devastating ad . It's a pretty devastating issue , right , and uh , no endorsement came .
Right .
I don't know exactly what happened , if there was a backstory there , but that's kind of how that ended up going down . Yeah , Yeah , Let's talk about . uh . we'll say , though , for for for Dow's credit , like she ran a very aggressive campaign against you . That mailer was way out of bounds , everything else .
Right .
Whatever , after the campaign she was there supported .
She was .
She did the right thing , And and she deserves a lot of credit for that I totally agree with you .
She's actually one of the few that really went out and even , you know , helped get the word out about you and stuff a lot too Well because of what it speaks to , if someone really cares about changing the state the cause and everything else .
and I think she did , And that's why she .
You know these are , these are contests and primaries and they get tough , and she did the right thing afterwards .
No , if there's somebody , if you have something you want to get done and and she's so , and she's somebody who I'd hire in a heartbeat to do that Like she really pushes hard . I have a lot of respect for her .
Right , but the other primary , i mean you had the primaries just to me , as always , things coming out of left field , right . Yeah , I mean just random stuff happening .
Yeah , And we did . we did get plenty of that .
Like the border , yes , or like the debate .
Or the debate . Well , let's start with the border . So we go down to the border to shoot after Dow and the horse race down on the border right , So she's down there .
We're like we're going to the border , So we go down . I'm like everybody tried to go to the border . Well , no , I mean you should write a big issue .
Yeah So , but as a Republican you're like , of course you go down to the border
¶ Campaign Challenges and Resource Allocation
. Well , what we knew we had to put together a good border at . Well , we had heard that Dow had this crew down there , right , and they had they put together a good ad .
Yeah , they had a big production team . I remember they were trying to find or we got worded in the film community they're trying to find porta-potties to bring on the border .
That area is really hard to get to . Yeah , right .
So they had their production , and then we had me , you and the camera guy .
That was it , everybody's like you guys have no idea .
We had a good crew , but like we were all in one car when we were trying to drive to the right spot , yeah , So in down there along the border wall , it is a rough piece of road .
You never know quite what you're going to get . And so we're driving , and we always make fun . So you drive your Citadel , your Dodge Durango , souped up Durango . We go down there in this thing . And so you , you're driving and I look out ahead and there , there was not .
this was not some treacherous piece of road in this particular spot , but there was one rock that it looked like it had been sharpened to a point . And all of a sudden , i figure , you see it , i was wrong .
I was wrong . I was probably looking on the other side of the wall , so one of these guys in the truck were looking at one of these . Right , yeah , and the tire immediately gone , yeah , and I'm thinking my all I have back . There is like a pizza cutter .
Yeah , Yeah . And so I was like did you even have that ?
Yeah , we had that . Okay , yeah , that's how we got it out , okay , yeah , no okay , for clarity purposes , you did not drive that car back .
You guys had Lily drive that car with that sad little spare , whatever that thing was . 35 .
The duct tape that you guys No cell coverage Yeah .
A girl of ourself . You sent her back up to me because I wasn't at the border . I was just about 20 minutes outside of that Right , but anyway yeah , Flat tires were tied in .
I remember Gail was like our camera guy , was saying we'll just come back in next week or something like that .
No , no , no , no . This thing will be on blocks and be gone .
We will shoot right now . Yeah , absolutely .
But this gets to a point which is and this is something that's important You have to raise every dime for the campaign , to do everything you can to get your message out , but you also have to .
So much of what you do is trying to make the most of your resources and it comes down to every dime , like when we finished the campaign , there was nothing left , like you spend it and you leave it all on the field . You have to . So things like shooting ads , like you're talking about , we didn't have a huge crew .
We never did , because you couldn't spend money on that . If you're spending money on a big crew , you're not spending money on buying extra ad time .
Yeah , I just always think it's about putting rounds on the target and you look at a budget and you want to have a highest percentage as possible . talking to voters , communicating with voters , organizing voters And it's real easy to spend a lot of money on stuff and try to make a movie .
Right Or swag or whatever . I mean people do a lot of that , yeah , yeah , whatever it is , they spend a lot of money on that .
No , you're right . Okay , and so one of the big things , that one of the kind of things where the as we get out of the primary and we one of the last things that happened in the primary was the debate .
We had the primary debate So we had one thought hard for them to zoom it .
Yes , we said we don't want this on zoom , we want it in person And , as it turns out , we were very fortunate that this thing was on zoom .
I mean , first of all , the debate , you know and I it's always interesting is that you never these things are unique because you end up in these positions you've never been in before Like I see the other candidates and you'd see them start to talk and it's like and you know this if you've been on TV enough that , especially if you haven't been on TV very
often , the minute you start talking , magically all the oxygen is gone , you stop breathing . And you just like you know .
so I'm watching that we start the debate out and I just see what's happening here and I'm actually up in the Christie's old office right over here And I'm kind of just sitting there watching this and it's pretty uneventful for a good portion of it .
Yeah , i mean I always I didn't like the idea because I thought you're going to be attacked the entire time and that's not really what happened . Right For the most part it was just kind of , when you have that many candidates on there , it's just everyone's giving an answer , and it was . I mean , i think I was on my phone .
It's kind of boring , yeah , in the beginning .
It was , it was . And then the thing General Seven does is they allow each candidate to ask another candidate a question . And so by this point you know Zanetti had decided he was , you know , he was not going to be an aggressive , you know , and go after us . So his question went to Ethel and he asked Ethel some question about this .
Dow goes after the Trump comments at me , okay . And so I just kind of brushed those aside , like come on , they're big issues and that's not one of them . But then J Blanc comes in , the colonel comes in , right , he comes in and he , he unloads on you , which was fantastic . So I got to give a quick little background before you talk about this .
So , back in the Senate race , i went to Ruedosa one night for an event right as the Senate race started and all the Senate candidates were there And it was a . There was a setup question in the crowd where a woman stood up and she said are any of you using Jay McCleskey to help with your campaign ? And I'm like , oh boy .
So we start at the end and every candidate just on the J's , j's the devil , they got the whole thing and it's all J's evil and everything else . And so they start going down
¶ Campaign Drama and Media Coverage
. Well , one of the candidates in the race , i know for a fact , contacted you and was like hey , will you run my campaign ? Right ? He stands up and makes a big scene about how just this is the worst thing that ever happened , right , and I'm just sitting there By the end of it . I'm just annoyed .
So I give a very annoyed answer , saying basically , it's winning time , he does the best job and I will bring the best people in to do the best job . Period . Whatever , i walk away , i'm pissed . Right , it's over and I'm pissed . So , anyway , we get into the whole block thing .
Well , i think one thing that happened with you is you're a guy that gets love phone calls from a lot of different people , so block gets out there And he unloads on that . I'm using you on the in the debate . Well , this time we had the receipts And so explain how that went down .
That's right He had . he had tried to hire me and he had texted me and left voicemail .
Yeah .
That , as he's doing this , we're coming through that thing . I'm like I know I saved it this time .
So in the middle of the debate , so that what you don't know about the channel seven debate is that they we shoot it a couple of days before it airs . So then we have time to prepare the social media campaign to hit him . So we know the minute he says this ridiculousness we can just bury him on social media .
Right , There's that . I mean , it's always nothing . nothing . voters care about more than who you've hired on your campaign . Yeah Right , Voters are like who's Jay .
Nobody cares . Nobody cares .
It is ridiculous . So so he goes that unloads on you , and then I hit him for the fact that he's a hypocrite , a liar and everything else . So then I ask Ethel Mahard just some question about being a leader , because I was like I'm not going to get in the middle of this And Ethel , she asked me a question , and she asked me a question in Espanol .
Oh , that's right , and I don't speak Spanish , so I so now we have videos for those of you watching this . Here's the video when it went down .
So I , i was sitting there , you know , kind of getting ready to go , and Doug says , you know , here's Ethel Mahard , and here's Ethel , here she goes And she starts asking about you know , starts speaking Spanish , and I'm like , oh boy , my , look up right there And I go , and all of a sudden Jay goes , experience , and I go , got it .
So then we were ready to go and that's listen , i just you know . So I mean , and and and Rika Nell was in the room too . He speaks Spanish as well . He was just like not in , like , yep , experience , experience . And so that was how we actually answered that It was pretty funny .
And after that everyone was like , yeah , mark must speak really , really good Spanish . He just you nailed it . He came right back and had that been live , had we gotten away and they're not been to zoom . I mean , i don't think it's an effective strategy .
No , no , no but .
But it would have been a little different outcome .
Yeah , yeah , no , and so we we get through the , we get through the , through the debate , and then we and we felt pretty good , i think after the debate that was kind of the last thing that could could trip us up And I think we felt pretty good going into primary night .
Yeah , i think . I think we ended where we thought it would .
Yeah , yeah .
And then the general started , you know , right then , Yeah , yeah .
And then , and our numbers going into the general , we're up two or three points .
Yeah , it was two or three points and then in that way , numbers were pretty stable . Obviously , when you got in we took a look and the numbers were pretty stable , and then the Dobs decision comes Right And that kind of flips everything .
Yeah , Yeah , And then you just kind of here we go , And as we get into that , now I think something that I was , I think , especially disappointed in is what happened with the media coverage of this race in the general election .
I mean , we saw time and time again And they just point out one example was KOV , where we we put out an ad about early release of criminals .
Oh , it's , kara Keeley was the first one .
Well , they were , yeah , true , But KOVs went on the air with their big fact check Right And their fact check was wrong .
Well , I just think it's , it's stun , and obviously we complain about the media a lot . I will say that , having done this , they've gotten it's gotten a lot worse . And and they'll say the short staff .
It's just , there's a lot of , there's a lot of bias And the first ad , kara Keeley , fact checked on and we've mentioned the fact that she had released criminals from prison early under her COVID order And they fact checked us and said , yeah , but he's not pointing out that that was just during COVID
¶ Local News and Media Bias
and it stopped . And we're like who told you that ? And they had never actually fact checked on it . And so then they that's when they first found out that she was still releasing them early . And I'm telling you that she wasn't the only governor who did that , but other governors got a lot more scrutiny as that was happening .
No one was able to just keep doing it and no one noticed , until they mess up their own fact check And then they're finally paying attention that she released them early .
But then the KOV one , like as you were talking about , Yeah , they did the same thing And then we set them straight and it just shows you and then she finally stopped doing it And then and then we hit her on her . You know soft parole board who constantly lets people back out of jail .
One of this gets coverage And I think what we've seen now is this weird kind of mix of bias and incompetence now , and I used to be really proud of local media because I would say we're not . You know , really , there's not the bias that you see in the national media and local media .
I don't know if I believe that anymore And I just don't think you see the level of talent presenting anymore .
You know facts and local media A because they don't pay them and then B because I think schooling over time has indoctrinated a lot of people as they get into these newsrooms that they feel like they're one of the first lines of defense for whatever political belief they hold .
Right And I think the lack of scrutiny that she received I mean governors I don't know if , governor Martinez , you're scrutinized on everything And it used to be both sides Like there was just a level of scrutiny . That doesn't happen . No , that didn't happen with her .
Covid is a great example , like what she did as a father , as someone involved coaching youth , what she did with the lockdowns is outrageous .
But if you ask voters and we talk to groups all the time if you ask voters , were we shut down more or less than other states , they would say they said about the same was our COVID death rate higher or lower than other states ? And they'd say , oh , we did a lot better because of what she did . That's just factually not true .
That's not a subjective argument . That's not a subjective argument . No , we're ninth and death I mean .
and it didn't work and the amount that what that did to kids and showing them how to school for that long . And you have what 13% of eighth graders can do proficient in math Right , i mean , we're going to pay for that for a long time , but people always wonder why didn't you guys talk about , well , voters ?
this goes back to how do Republicans win the state ?
Well , that campaign , the information campaign , has to start earlier , right , and voters have to get that information , the media that has to walk in and say it's our job to be adversarial and they don't do that And they don't do it anymore .
And if we don't have a media that steps up and decides , wait a minute , it's my job to make power uncomfortable , then this is what happens . Because you get into a campaign and you hear from our campaign these things , you naturally say , well , maybe , maybe not Ron Kenny's running the company , who really knows ?
But if you hear it from a news organization constantly talking about it , saying we deserve answers , then it's different .
Well , you just look at the early release thing . She released somebody early who had There's the largest fentanyl bust in FBI history . That what a million pills .
I mean they're releasing people that you see the stuff of the pro-bord , everything that's going on while crime is such a Huge issue in the state and though there's no scrutiny on it at all until our campaign was doing yeah , yeah .
And then finally we get in and I will say I think there was some . You know , i do think the journal at times does try to step in , you know .
I thought Daniel Chacon over the at the Santa Fe New Mexico and Started pushing on that yeah , Yeah I mean a lot of it is . There's just not as many reporters around . Well , there's that too . You know , there's a bunch of .
There's a bunch of laughs coming of the journal too . Again , it's tough , man , and then and then in the TV side , they're not , they're just not . They don't have the horsepower , the people in the horsepower , to do it anymore , and I just think the whole opinion thing .
Like when we , when I came up in TV , you know You would have been drilled by our first news director if they she could tell what your opinion was on any topic . Like when I was , when I was a news anchor and I would read something . If you saw an expression on my face Or there was a one word that showed my bias , i would have been fired .
I would have been so much trouble . And now that just doesn't exist . Like producers are even writing the copy and the copy's so Bias to start , and then you hear a news anchor read it . I'm like This is not an opinion show , it's supposed to be the 10 o'clock news or whatever , and so I think that's really frustrating .
I think it's also it can be detrimental , which I also find Infuriating the fact that you know not to keep like going over old things , but one of the biggest impact things that happened to us was towards the end of the campaign and They did that how we news Conference .
That was bad and and then they let a young woman Talk and put on camera saying that if you elect Mark Runcetti , he's gonna kill women and they aired that And the repercussion from that and what happened to us marks on the road traveling for the campaign .
I'm at home with the girls and somebody comes and shoots out our windows right now at our home , our personal home , and We obviously feel like that was a direct correlation , right , that's . They got that got aired the night before . People get pissed off and all angry and they think this guy can't win , he's gonna kill women or whatever .
It's insanity that they would put that out there . It's , it's . I was so angry that they didn't even realize . When you don't tell the truth about somebody , then people can get fired up . I mean I can't imagine like you guys do a press conference mark and you get up there and say You know , if you were like Michelle , she's gonna kill all the men .
I couldn't , i couldn't do that , i couldn't do that We couldn't do it .
We know that . I mean We know the rules aren't like the government .
Governors Association spent 12 million dollars records spending ever in the state . All those ads Basically saying that yeah , and they were never fact-checked . In one of the new , one of the stations said oh , we're just not gonna fact-check third party groups . It's like they're spending 12 million dollars .
Yeah , and it's influencing , and it's influencing the decision for voters . So it absolutely .
I just that one really made me Yeah , no , i and no , i understand , i was disappointed to see that too . I mean because I I've , i've met , i met , how I think , once he seems like a nice person actually and Haven't sit there and just listen to someone say those sorts things . Those things are hard They just ran on one issue .
Yeah yeah , it was very clear . They talked about the DGA 12 million dollars . One issue , yeah , and all this other stuff's happening . Yeah , and it was very difficult , for the media didn't want to push her on any plans .
She didn't have to let us know , and I wrote the media about that because , being the person that's at home and having the windows shot out , i just felt like that was just irresponsible on their behalf . And obviously mark is gone . Mark's always gone on the campaign trail when anything major happened here . I was like , okay now , what do I do ? now ?
I don't even have windows in . Somebody can break in our house any point that they want .
So Jeff comes over , tries to save the day for us , which you know , puts up some cardboard and some duct tape , which was really nice of them , and then we had to send in a nut J the next day to actually well , no , we had to bring in sergeant McCleskey because he had to come in and investigate because we couldn't see this all the wind It was .
Just , it was a garage , mid center garage window and you , we knew it was , we knew something had gone down , but we did . You know , i asked Christie to look around you see any bolt holes in the walls and anything like that ? No , i don't see any bullets on the ground , anything , any pellets , anything whatever . And she's like no , i don't see anything .
And then the inspector comes and I came in and they're everywhere .
This is from having a teenage boy who you know and I , we quickly found all the oh .
Oh , they say , they sprayed her entire front of her house the fact that I didn't see that . It's not so great for me , but it was night in my defense . Yeah , i have terrible eyesight , so but no , what we see , though .
What would you know and you saw it with the other issues with with the guy Who's in jail now for shooting into homes with it , with a , with a much more powerful gun . So two different things , by the way .
So yeah , absolutely , but I think that's the part that's frustrating is it's , but you can't . They want to say , well , it's rhetoric , it's just rhetoric on the Republican side . It's inciting this Yeah , meanwhile , you know They're , they're able to hold press conferences saying the same way .
Right , you know , kill women . Yeah , like it was , it's just today , it's you know , call the same strike zone Yeah .
Yeah , all people would have it so , knowing this , knowing what kind of media environment we were dealing with , we go into the debates With Michelle and so a little look behind that . I mean , that was one of those things .
Obviously you prepare for and you try to get yourself ready to go and we sit down , we have what you know , we get around a table and we have three or four you guys shooting stuff at me and and going back and forth and getting ready for the day .
I mean , you developed real plans and that was something you always wanted to do when you said you were gonna run , that you want to have real policy plans , that you're real policy wonky . Yeah they are , and and you spend a ton of time developing those plans . So then we were in debate prep .
You got to shave them down and get them to a point where you can present them within 45 seconds .
Right , and then hit her because that's just you know how it works and no agreed .
Because it's our only time to hold her accountable right .
So that's what I'm saying . So what happened there was , knowing the environment we were in , we knew we had to deliver in the debates because her whole thing Was always a weatherman , blah , blah , you know . So we knew , standing toe to toe with her , it didn't turn out .
We were standing so that's coming in a second hold on , and then you know We knew we had to .
those had to go well , because those were sort of a thing where we had to clear this bar To understand that we can handle the job and and also talk about the plans that we have , which again is is infuriating now , especially when you see that the direction is is listless at this point And and we gave as much detail as any candidate running for governors ever
given- Oh , no question . And so we finish . We finished a bait prep and then we go into these debates . Well , you always have a negotiation . The base starts well . Michelle has a bad knee , and so her her issue was that she did not want to stand during the debate . Well , i have a bad back .
And we always felt and I mean , i think she did actually- Oh , she absolutely had a bad knee .
Oh , she did Absolutely When we first hear it .
We're like she just don't want to stand .
Because she's next to Mark , she's so much shorter Right . And then I , but my back did not allow me to sit Right .
So they end up in this , where you're standing And she's sitting . Yeah .
And then if you go , ella , if you pull up the KOAT debate , just go to like middle of the debate when Michelle's answering any question , doesn't matter which one , so as you can just put up anyone , so Michelle , she's sitting , there is . So the first KOB debate goes off . That goes pretty well .
I think we feel pretty good about that , especially the first 15 minutes holding her accountable for crime . Especially 15 minutes went by and we were just talking about crime And so we're going back and I think we felt like that one went pretty well .
Yeah .
But then KOAT , I think we felt like went very well .
Yeah , I thought you .
I thought you won that handily .
Yeah , i think we , as far as debates go , like that's about as well as we do .
And so one thing you don't know at the time , and Michelle couldn't tell this at the time , is that when you're in the studio and in your , in your going through the debate , you can't see yourself , you can't see how you look . And so what Michelle couldn't tell us ? here's a great shot .
Here you go , ella , go that , see her arms are up , they're folded across She , the posture is rough , but she can't tell because there's no monitor . And so you know , it's just one of those little things over time .
What's funny to me about that is you remember they wanted to be real strict . No one , no staff , can talk to the candidates during the debate .
Right .
Because they ? I don't this . I think they were worried that you were going to get passed something or something .
Which is ridiculous .
Which is absurd , but what ends up happening is , i'm convinced , if someone They would have told her , they would have been able to come and touch her , and break , someone Would have said stop , stop .
Stop Uncross your arms . You look super comfortable and super angry and mean and which you know , all those things .
But yeah , no , no , no , yeah , No , there's no doubt , And and I think that we knew , though , that the big thing in that debate was going to be the candidate questions , right ,
¶ Governor's Controversies and Campaign Chaos
right , we knew that . You know what is she going to do with it , what's her , what's her response going to be , what's , what's she going to ask ? And so we knew what our thing was going to be , which was going to be whatever she asked . I was going back at her , right , so it's going to be the pivot , and so were you surprised at her question .
What did you remember ?
that I was . I was surprised with her question on that because I just thought it's not the same as that was similar , like voters voters are , i think they . they accept you being hard , like debating tough and and tough ads , but they want you to be fair . So , like at the last question , in Spanish , no one's going to see that as fair .
The question I thought she asked was just a gotcha And I don't think that works with voters .
And what she did ask is about it . Some did I know what some drug was that is used in . is it for abortions ? Is that what it is ? Yeah , and I was like you know ? and I immediately was like , yeah , i have no idea what you're talking about . And then , just immediately , just , and then we went right back at her for the sexual assault allegations .
Right , pretty simple question And I think it's pretty straightforward What is a mysoprostal ?
Here we go again . This is what 25 years in government gets you . This gets you a governor who wants to play Jeopardy . She wants to go and get Alex Trebek wound up . Let me see what I can ask And let me tell you something , governor , people have had enough of the political games . It's garbage .
At this point And let's talk about this You said you've been more transparent than any governor in history . Governor , you grabbed a male staffer's crotch a gay male And then you said is there anything down there ? You then paid him $150,000 , governor , and then you made him shut up about it .
And now you have the gall to sit up here and not only victimize James Hallenand , but you re-victimize him . If you remember back , you said during the end of the Cuomo scandal if you don't believe those who go and bring these charges , then you're re-victimizing .
So you're victimizing , re-victimizing And now and the topper of all toppers , you're creating yourself as the victim . Governor , this is the sort of thing that people cannot stand . You've never come clean . You've never said look , i made a mistake , here we go . You've just continued to lie about this issue time after time after time .
And let me tell you about experience , experience , especially the experience we need in this office is someone with character , someone who has been in tough situations and doesn't lie about them , doesn't belittle people and doesn't try to shrink other people to make themselves feel better . You , on a regular basis , do that in every single way .
You shut down stores and then you go jewelry shopping . You shut down our ability to see our families , and then you hold parties , and then you keep our kids out of school and you roll up to Navajo Lake and you have a party with your friends while we're on lockdown .
You are a hypocrite governor , and so , then , that was the one that I think got the most out of it .
This goes back to this media thing you're looking at Yeah . I mean , you see the coverage of President Trump getting indicted for a payoff for an . NDA and the same thing happened here , and it's a one or two day story .
Right , and it never gets covered .
And even now what that happens to Trump and no one's saying , well , isn't this the same somewhere ? Is this another issue ?
I can't believe it hasn't been compared to what Michelle did . I'm honestly shocked by that . I don't know why I should be shocked , because it seemed like it never got any coverage .
I mean , i think CNN is the one that really did the story on her sexual harassment of her staffer and then the payoff with donor money , which , by the way , if we , i mean I just can't imagine if that was a flip party situation , they would torch a Republican And it still . It's just like that unfair .
We can get away with things and I just think that's just too bad , but anyway , So then we get into the .
Obviously we head down the stretch . And now what happened ?
No , no , no . I want to back up really fast on it for you two guys .
Yeah .
Okay , in defense of one of my dearest people that worked with us on this campaign , jeff Glassbrenner Okay .
Yeah , okay .
Jeff Glassbrenner , our campaign manager , who was our campaign manager in the Senate race , who came in , is like Michael P Keaton fresh face .
Yeah , super sharp kid .
Super sharp kid . Looked 30 , but was only , like I don't know , 20 minutes old . something like that at the beginning , and then he No , he looked 15 , but was 26 . Whatever , whatever , but he was super sharp , go getter , Just .
He is a whippersnapper and I adore Jeff , clearly , but so he does such a great job in the Senate race and he wanted to know you know , are you considering running for governor ? And he was . He did the right thing .
He called you because he had another offer to go work for another candidate and he wanted to come and help us with the governor's race if you were going to run . And you said I have not made my mind up yet and I don't want to hold you back . So he does what he should do . He goes to Arizona , gets hired by another candidate .
Karen Taylor Robeson . That's right .
He does a great job on her campaign . He's there with her for over a year , gentlemen a year Because they have a late primary .
They do August , august .
So we should explain this a little bit too . That that . So we had a core group of a small group of people that helped us out through the primary . You know they did great but a lot of them , you know it just was not something they didn't want to keep going through . The general is that some of it wasn't a great fit .
Other people just had other commitments . They said I'll help you through the primary , so okay . So we really had a skeleton crew , but we had a plan .
Your plan was terrible And our plan was for Jeff to lose Exactly .
And so we get into . So we're holding this thing together with like bubble gum and bailing wire . Like we've got like four people trying to make things work and Rekhaze doing communications . He's doing operations like just trying to figure out what to do .
And our thought was if , if , if Karen loses to Kerry Lake , we get our campaign manager And then he brings with him his whole team .
Right .
And all of a sudden we run this thing to the finish and we're good . But now ? But now , yes , he uncocks it .
But of course he's our friend , so you want him to win , his candidate to win .
No , no , not really , but not you two .
Not you two .
You guys were like counting the days down on this primary .
No , we weren't .
But it was hard because it was , you were , you were .
That's the out of the story . No , when we talked to Jeff .
We were very supportive . We were very supportive .
Yeah , jeff , don't believe any of this . if you're listening .
So the way this works is , though . So I go to Jay and I'm like listen , like a couple of weeks before the camp , before the primary , i'm like all right , so what do we ? because Nicole does a lot of the polling in Arizona , so has a look , maybe not that particular race , but She did do that . She did Okay , so she has a good look .
I'm like , what did she see ?
And then she starts hiding it Yeah , and she won't .
And we , we kind of .
Again . This goes back to the , the Trump endorsement factor in a primary , and we knew that Trump was going to endorse Kerry Lake and . Kerry Lake was strong . I mean , I forgot how much money she spent .
Oh , she's a Karen . 20 million dollars . I think more than that . They ran a great campaign . They did run a good campaign . Again , she's a good candidate .
This is why you don't mess around when you think of Trump endorsements coming .
Yeah .
But , um , you know , we kind of had confidence in , uh then , President Trump's endorsement at Kerry Lake .
Yeah , we did . You guys had too much confidence . Poor lady loses .
No , no , no , hold on , But that election night she's up nine or 10 . And so we're like that's great , Yeah , Like congratulations . And then he's . And then Jeff texts late that night and says it doesn't look good for us .
And you two start popping the champagne .
Well then , the question was asked how long ?
how long do we have to wait To the body's ?
cold , the actual expression you guys used .
That was a little tough , but then ?
then you guys were like is it one hour ? Can I call him now ? It's been one hour , It's been a day , Is this long enough ? How long do I have to wait ? You two are relentless . It's like a breakup .
It's like hey look , i'm sorry it didn't work out for you guys , but I like to go out with you , yeah .
I think we should go out to dinner and talk about it . So yes , we were excited to have Jeff come in .
But you two , he went to like his like .
Oh , he went Rogers , yeah , yeah , yeah . He went into his darkness retreat , yes , and so he had to . he had to go and just kind of settle out , and we're just like , oh , i'm going to stop .
And he had to think do I really want to deal with Jay and Mark again ? That's what he had to really concentrate .
But then he shows up with like a comms manager , field director . It was campaigned in a box , it was great .
He's a great , really great , political professional rock guys with him .
That were really good . Oh , awesome team , Fantastic team , And that you know it was great .
It worked out well . We loved those guys . It did , it did . He's great And he's actually working for Tim Scott Yeah .
He's his .
Iowa .
State Director for .
Tim Scott's presidential campaign .
Well , maybe he can come on here and tell some stories about each of them . No , he will . We'll get him on eventually . All right , i know he's busy right now . He's got a little a little bit going on . He's got something to do .
Yeah , Anyway , Okay .
¶ Future of Republican Party in New Mexico
So anyway , I want to wrap with just kind of your impression on on where the state is and and where we go from here as a party . I mean , I do feel like there's , there's some still some real opportunity in the state of New Mexico . I haven't given up hope on that , But where do you think we are ?
I think we're in a difficult spot in the state . I think you have to be realistic . The you know I'm sure there are things we could have done better as a campaign , but we ran a really good campaign , you were a really good candidate , and there's just .
You look at the numbers , don't lie on the on the results of the election to show what little swing is left . It is becoming a much more democratic state . And you look around the country and when you have states where , in order for Republicans to win , you have to be close to or more on registration , voter registration Right , we have to do things .
We have to be smarter about how we do things here . We have to register more Republicans , we have to start communicating better and earlier to to voters , and that stuff has to happen for the state to swing . It's going to . New Mexico was a bellwether state for the longest time in presidential elections and the last time a Republican one one was 2004 .
And so we you know it's a tough state right now and it's going to take , you know , having to redouble it , but we got to go back . You know we had there was a time when governor Martinez was in office and we're running the pack that we had the governor's office , we had the secretary of state , we had one Republican control of the house .
For the first time in 70 years There's a Republican mayor . In Albuquerque There was a Republican city council . So things switch back and forth but it's not just going to magically happen . It's going to take . People have to be smart about we have to be smart about how we do things .
And sharing information now , before the you know , a year or two before the elections started .
Absolutely .
And we can't sit back . we can't just sit back and wait for the local media to present all the fairness of what's actually going on , And I think you have to be realistic about what happens in campaigns ?
I think we don't do that I mean like yeah , we have to do vote by mail stuff better . We have to also realize there were issues that voters did not like Republicans on and voted against us . on that we can do a better job . Not that they disagree with us necessarily on that .
on these issues is we can do a better job communicating our position on it and how we do it , and we have to kind of , you know , look at the game film and go back and retool .
Yeah , now it's good And I think that's part of the reason , too that you know , going forward , we're starting this kind of an initiative to get more information out there with this podcast and other things we're going to do that .
It's important to give people information and to spend that time and make sure that people understand exactly what the issues are , because I think far too many people the thing and I talked to you about this during the campaign the thing that scares me more than anything else is if someone says it can't get better , it's just going to be this way And it doesn't
have to be this way , and I thank you for all you've done for what you know for our family , for this campaign . We appreciate it .
Yeah , thanks a lot , jay , for pointing this out .
I mean all the horrible things that are said about you .
My goodness , jay , it's unbelievable . I can't believe I survived . I expected you to be , you know just Well poor Jay .
I mean , i have to wrap up on my own thing is Jay takes the hits man Like ? I mean , it's like some sort of like you're supposed to be some puppet that he's just , you know , leading the strings , on which I'm like have you met Mark ?
He makes every decision about this campaign and what we're going to do and what we're not going to do , and you have to take the brunt If something does , if people don't like something that marks done .
It's Jay's fault . Honestly , it doesn't bother me . I have skin and I'm not on the ballot , So like you know these guys want a campaign against me , go have at it .
Yeah , no , it's true , And it is one of those things that you absolutely you know , but you also take advice from people who know what they're doing And you do see that , born out over time , which is what you switch is . So , obviously , thanks for taking the time .
We're going to get you to come back at some point and we'll talk about what's going on the presidential . We just don't know enough about it yet . We'll get to it . I mean , obviously we could run this episode for three hours and but you know , obviously we won't get people through it .
So we'll have you back when we feel like tapping into more of your knowledge .
Thanks , jay . We're going to wrap this up .
All right , we'll get to it .
We'll be back soon , but in the meantime , you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at no doubt about it podcast . The no doubt about it podcast is a choose adventure media production . See you next time on no doubt about it .
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